Unrehearsed - Episode 10 - Church Hurt - (How to heal without walking away from God)

Church hurt is real… and a lot of people are carrying it silently.

What happens when the place that’s supposed to heal you… is where the pain starts?

In this episode, we open up about rejection, broken trust, and the long road back to faith—because sometimes the hardest part isn’t walking away… it’s learning how to come back.

Social Media links 

@designofmovement

Ashley:  instagram.com/howardashley87

Brandon: instagram.com/designofmovement

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:02

Welcome to On Rehearse with the Wars. What's up, baby?

SPEAKER_04 0:07

Hello, honey.

SPEAKER_02 0:09

You look pretty today. Okay. Welcome back to the podcast, y'all. You know, today's conversation is one that's real. And honestly, it's one that a lot of people quietly carry. Uh, you know, today we're talking about church hurt. Um, before we get into it, we just want to take a moment to thank the couple who originally agreed to share their story with us. Um, we respect them deeply. Uh, you know, they made a decision not to have their story published, but we had you know a great time with them and we we we honor them for sharing their truth with us. Um, you know, but this this show is about uh life and faith and just being led by the spirit. So uh, you know, we just want to tell uh Keely and West we love them and you know we're here in their corner. Today, instead of an interview, you're getting us, uh, our perspective, experiences, and what we've learned walking through this ourselves. So I don't know. We should probably define church hurt because people probably lump this under a lot of a lot of labels. What do you what do you define as as church hurt is?

SPEAKER_04 1:20

Um, my church hurt is my church hurt is people hurt. Um usually when you talk about church hurt, it it's someone leadership, um, something happened within the church.

SPEAKER_02 1:42

Yes. One of our our our pastor will always say everybody's guaranteed to get offended, which is true.

SPEAKER_04 1:50

Oh, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:51

Which is true, right? Like offense is bound to happen. But to me, the difference between real church hurt and kind of just offense is when it's systemic, when it's like baked into the actual like organization. Yes, like people are hurt intentionally from an organizational perspective, you know. So is all church hurt the same? No.

SPEAKER_04 2:16

No, I mean, and we learned that even from you know, spending time with our friends, you know, is definitely not the same. Um, and I know just over time, watching my parents go through church hurt, watching going through it my personal self, it is definitely not all the same. It's everybody I feel like at some point in their life have experienced some sort of hurt within the church. Let's put it that way. Whether it is, you know, you are one of those people who do everything and you feel like you don't ever get recognized.

SPEAKER_01 3:02

Right.

SPEAKER_04 3:03

Or if you know you shared something with somebody that you thought you could trust within the church, and then it became gossip, or there's a million scenarios that you know we could we could talk about.

SPEAKER_02 3:22

Let me ask you a question. Is is all church hurt the result of leadership failure? I don't think that that's the case. I I think that sometimes church hurt just happens because it happens.

SPEAKER_04 3:36

Somebody said I was listening to a podcast the other day, and somebody said, where there is people, there is hurt.

SPEAKER_02 3:42

Oof, yeah, that's a word.

SPEAKER_04 3:44

I mean and that could not be a truer statement because I feel like at some point you will always be hurt within an organization, a church, or what have you. But it's how, like you said, people handle those things from a leadership perspective.

SPEAKER_02 4:12

Yeah. So so what I mean, what's your example? Because I know I have some, but I mean, I think yours is I have a million. Probably a little bit more. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 4:24

Um, you know, probably obviously the one that stands out most to me. Um, and what kind of led to me walking away from the church for a number of years was when I had my daughter. Um I had been at the church for a while since I was a young teenager. I was probably about 15. Um I had my daughter when I was 24, just for reference. Um, so a while. Um and my whole family was there. I had cousins there, we had brought so many people there. Um, cousins, aunts, my grandma, everybody was there.

SPEAKER_02 5:19

Um, were y'all like were y'all like leaders in this community?

SPEAKER_04 5:27

I wouldn't say we were leaders, but I I would probably say we were known. We had been there a long time. My parents served. Um I served for a number of years in in different aspects within the church. So um, yeah, I would say we were we were known. Um but when I got pregnant with my daughter, first of all, that was already hard for me.

SPEAKER_02 6:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:06

And you know, you think telling your parents is like the hardest thing in the world. But then after I got through that hurdle, it was almost like a double whammy because then it was a double whammy because then I remember going to church and you know, my my mom and dad are encouraging me to just, you know, still stay in church. And I remember the the moment I felt that shift of people literally turning their backs on you. What was that? I mean and not speaking to you and being cult, if I'm being frank. And I remember just being kind of taken back because these are people that I had literally done life with, had lunch with every Sunday, hung out with all the time, and now I don't even get so much as a hello.

SPEAKER_02 7:30

So you lost good friendships as a result of this.

SPEAKER_04 7:34

Oh yeah. Okay. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. People that I would have been like, yeah. You know, you you say everybody's your sister and your brother. Those the this is who that was. They were family. And so it was very heartbreaking.

SPEAKER_02 7:52

How did your parents take this?

SPEAKER_04 7:54

Oh, very hard. Because at the end of the day, that's still their child. I was still their child. So they were still mama bear, papa bear. So this was not an easy thing for them either to see me go through this. But of course, you're in church, so you know, I was asked to do a restoration process, a redemption process.

SPEAKER_00 8:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 8:21

And, you know, of course, I wanted to do at that time. You you almost want to do whatever you think is going to put you back in good standing and and get your your friends back and get get your life back. Whatever is going to end this.

SPEAKER_03 8:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:40

So it was like, sign me up. So I go through all of it, and nothing changes.

SPEAKER_02 8:47

Wow. Now, how how did you know you were through this?

SPEAKER_04 8:52

I mean, did they tell you that they Yeah, it was a it was a it was a course.

SPEAKER_02 8:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 8:58

And kind of, sort of, and you were assigned to somebody and they kind of walked you through the process, and they they said when you were done. They basically said when you were completed.

SPEAKER_02 9:09

Now, this person who said when you were completed, what what was their do you remember what they told you?

SPEAKER_04 9:14

I don't remember what was said.

SPEAKER_02 9:16

Okay. So they just kind of like released you back into the church body.

SPEAKER_04 9:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:21

But then every did they tell people you were done?

SPEAKER_04 9:24

I mean, it sounds like I mean they tell leadership and they tell the pastors that you're done, that you've you've walked through it and you've gone through it. Um, but ultimately, I mean it kind of was what it was.

SPEAKER_02 9:39

Seems like the cult yeah, I mean, it it seems like the structure was responsive, but the culture really wasn't. I mean, everybody, I mean, sounds like everybody didn't they still look down on you.

SPEAKER_04 9:52

Yes, very much so.

SPEAKER_02 9:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 9:55

Very much so.

SPEAKER_02 9:58

Did you ever have a situation where you felt like maybe I deserve this treatment? I mean, is that is is that how you felt about it?

SPEAKER_04 10:08

I don't feel like I ever I don't I don't think I ever deserved it. Actually, quite the opposite, because you know, you're kind of taught the whole, you know, let's let's lead by example and treat people with the love of Jesus and and bring them in and and love them and and love them back to life and all of this stuff. You're you're you're taught this. And then the minute you're the person kind of needing that, it all was different for you.

SPEAKER_02 10:41

Did that affect how you saw God or just people?

SPEAKER_04 10:46

Um, unfortunately, I feel like it was a little bit of both. Because these were supposed to be the godly people.

SPEAKER_02 10:57

Right. It's supposed to be the body.

SPEAKER_04 10:58

These were supposed to be, yeah. These were the people that I trusted. These were the people who I did life with, these were the people who I worshiped with and asked for prayer for and prayed for and prayed with. So to then have you not embrace me at a time where I felt that you should have been like, it's okay. We're gonna pray through this, we're gonna walk through this, you're gonna come out of this, God is gonna see you through this. Instead of speaking life into me and and comforting me with the love of Jesus, it was the opposite. And you don't expect that.

SPEAKER_02 11:43

It's it's literally the opposite of the church. Let's be real.

SPEAKER_04 11:46

It's the opposite of the church.

SPEAKER_02 11:48

That sounds like what you were describing sounds like high school.

unknown 11:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:54

That I mean, that's I don't have another word for it. That is high school. That is, we don't like this person. Maybe we don't even know this person, but somebody else said not to like this person, so we don't like this person. You know what I mean? That's basically what that is. So I don't know. I I I um I don't know if I have a real piece of church hurt. I mean, I I mean, I I know for me, um I sort of saw some of the fallibility of the body. I mean, so I grew up Southern Baptist, and I meant when I mean Southern Baptists like Fire and Brimstone, my father's from Arkansas, like it doesn't get any more down South Baptists than that. Like I was raised in a Baptist church ever since I was five years old, and I looked up to all of the men of that church. I mean, they were all like giants to me, they were all awesome guys. I mean, I had a great youth pastor. One of the deacons used to pick me up as I rode the bus to work on Summers. Like, I had a deep history with these folks. Um, I mean, when I became, you know, a man and in my 20s, I saw some of the fallibility of the church. I mean, you know, our beloved pastor passed away, but then the pastor that replaced him got sued for embezzlement. So I mean it's Wow. Yeah. I mean, there's there's there's going to be a period where you are offended, right? I mean, I that's always. I could say that I have a piece of church hurt, but I can't really call it church hurt because when I was going through premarital class with my ex-wife, uh that pastor, the replacement pastor that I mentioned, told me not to get married. So I can't really hate on that. I can't really hate on that because he was trying to help you with one thing. He was trying to help me out. Jeez. I can't really call that church hurt. I can't get offended at that because he was completely correct. So anyway, it's another podcast. But um so, so, so okay, like one of the things we need to establish is wrestling with expectations versus reality. So, so let me say this, right? Like, especially in large church bodies, like people are going to fail you.

SPEAKER_04 14:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:12

They are going to fail you, you know.

SPEAKER_04 14:14

And I think that's what I struggled with because here's the thing. We we we were in a large church body.

SPEAKER_03 14:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:20

So the offense and all that little bitty stuff didn't bother me. Like, we had a crazy choir lady that used to measure our skirts. Like, we didn't have on, you know, she was you could tell she was very jealous of like younger girls' bodies because every younger girl, your skirt was too tight, it was too short, your shirt too short, you showed too much. Like, it was always I was all dressed like the Chick-fil-A. It was it was wild. So, like that part of it, like you kind of knew it was gonna happen, you expected it from certain people and certain individuals. So it wasn't the little bitty things, because like I said, in a in a in a church, you're going to have your feelings hurt, you know. But I think that is growth. I look at that as growth. That's an opportunity for you to rise above it or move away from it.

SPEAKER_01 15:17

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 15:18

So little things like that don't really bother me. I shake those off. Yeah. But it was kind of once people fall, are you there to pick them up? Yeah. When people fail, are you there to pray for them? Are you it life happens? Yeah. And so are you going to show up like the people that you go out into the world and try to get? And remember, that would always be the crazy thing to me because I watched and I went to the neighborhoods and to the things, and you know, you're praying for the drug addicts, you're praying for these people to be saved, you're praying for them to come to the house of God and all this stuff, and you're praying for the single mothers, but now you have a single mother.

SPEAKER_02 16:09

So there were these open arms, right, right.

SPEAKER_04 16:13

And your arms are closed, right? But you go out into the world, and you're like, come, we'll help you, we'll we'll pray for you, we'll love on you, but you have one in your mist that you're throwing to the wayside.

SPEAKER_02 16:31

That that you are shunning.

SPEAKER_04 16:32

That you are literally shunning.

SPEAKER_02 16:34

That's really I'm sorry to get that. I mean, and and here's the thing, right? Like, how do you stay connected to God through something like that?

SPEAKER_04 16:46

It was hard. I did it. I knew how to pray, and I thank God that I was in church for as long as I was in church and connected to God um since I was a kid. Um, so I thank God for those moments throughout my life that I knew the the certain things were always instilled in me. And so I knew God deep down inside of me, and I always prayed, but I definitely did not trust the church.

SPEAKER_02 17:33

I think what I don't like about hearing about these type of stories is that really the outcome of this type of church hurt really leads to isolation. Oh, for sure. To me, churches are in the people business. So success is all about inclusivity, recognition of people's, you know, journeys, um, support. So when we isolate people, we're just giving up the success. You are pushing them away.

SPEAKER_04 18:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:11

And as we know, and as our pastors teach us, isolation is where the devil gets busy.

SPEAKER_04 18:17

It is definitely where the devil got busy. You know, I look at, you know, thank God that I let him back into my life in such a way that he really did a 360. But I definitely, when I walked away, I was just like, what's the point?

SPEAKER_02 18:42

Do you remember when you stopped going?

SPEAKER_04 18:44

I do. Um, I remember it was during a political high and I was already done. I already wanted to stop coming, and some things had happened at at the church, and my dad was like, I'm done. This is not I I'm out of here. So when my daddy left, I was like, cool. I can go too.

SPEAKER_03 19:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:18

So I I was like, I'm I'm definitely done now. Which um, you know, I kind of was going for the sake of my parents then. So I was not going every Sunday at that point and regularly at that point, anyway. I was just kind of trying to keep it up for my parents. Um, but I had no interest in the people that were there at that point. Um once you have turned your back on me in such a way, in such a time like that, I was completely done.

SPEAKER_02 20:02

There was then no reconciliation. There was no restoration.

SPEAKER_04 20:07

There was no restoration of those relationships because if I felt like if whoever or whatever caused you to stop loving on me during a time of need, whatever that was, it could kind of keep you, and that's how I felt, and so it really pushed me away from wanting anything to do with going to church. I actually tried, I went to um a similar church. I went to I visited Faith Promise, great church, loved it. The people were awesome. Um and I just couldn't let myself, I just couldn't connect. I could not let myself be involved, I couldn't let go, like it was just I just had those walls up, and I just as much as I tried, I just could not let myself be in the moment of going back to another church.

SPEAKER_02 21:30

So how long were you out of church?

SPEAKER_04 21:32

Oh my gosh. Yikes. I left when I was twenty five or twenty six, I'm sorry. I was twenty-six and I did not go back. I went off and on, so let me say I'm not I did not go back. I be I became a Christmas and Easter person. All right, all right. Um and I did not go back until I met you.

SPEAKER_02 22:07

How did you feel getting back?

SPEAKER_04 22:09

So you do the math.

SPEAKER_02 22:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:11

We met when I was 40 years old.

SPEAKER_02 22:15

So that was that was a hiatus.

SPEAKER_04 22:17

It was a hiatus.

SPEAKER_02 22:19

How did you feel getting back into? I think the first thing I first thing I took you to was our Christmas party, I believe. Or you you you had already been to some church services before then, is that right?

SPEAKER_04 22:32

No.

SPEAKER_02 22:33

So that no, the first thing was our Christmas party.

unknown 22:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 22:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:38

We did go to some church services. I'm sorry. No, the first thing you took me to was the fundraising night.

SPEAKER_02 22:47

Yes, vision partners.

SPEAKER_04 22:48

The vision partners night. That was the first thing you took me to. You said I have a dinner.

SPEAKER_02 22:53

Probably not the right thing to take somebody to dinner.

SPEAKER_04 22:56

I have a dinner to go to. You want to go with the church? I was like, okay. But, you know, I thank God because I kept praying and I knew who he was in my life. And I knew God and I wanted my kids back in church. That was probably really my heart strings of it all. Because I wanted my children back in church because I know what church had been for me. And I know I would not even be alive today if it wasn't for God's grace.

SPEAKER_02 23:35

Do you feel like it was hard for you to get because I mean we kind of went full swing. I was already involved in my church. I was happy.

SPEAKER_04 23:45

I love I love the church. My kids love the church, which made me extremely happy. Um and then I love the feeling that I felt being there with you. And then the the the different feeling that I felt when I walked in. I knew this was a different type of atmosphere immediately. By the way that our pastors are touchable, relatable, visible. Our pastor's wife walks through, hugs on everybody like they're not these pedestal puppets.

SPEAKER_02 24:39

What was I I'm sorry, pedestal puppets?

SPEAKER_04 24:43

That's mad funny as well, but I'm I'm just saying, you've I mean there's some preachers, they are absolutely you see them up there, and then they say their goodbyes, they don't. The the security and the leadership and they ushering them out, they're just they're not very relatable people.

unknown 24:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 25:00

I have had conversations with our pastor about things that I'm dealing with, and he'll tell me, man, I I I dealt with that, you know. Um forgiveness is hard, it's not easy. We're people like he is such a humble yeah, our pastor's very humble.

SPEAKER_00 25:21

He's very self-aware, you know.

SPEAKER_04 25:24

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 25:24

For sure.

SPEAKER_04 25:25

And that was not that way. Not for me.

unknown 25:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:35

No, I mean, I I had the same thing. I mean, I I think in our church, especially in Baptist churches, the the pastor is very much, it's almost like a regal role. Because Baptist churches can be so I don't want to say perform, I don't think performative is the word, but they're very procedural. So procedure denotes that you know the pastor does not come into the sanctuary until he leaves his pastor's study. And in his study, he's wearing his robe and his books and having his coffee, and the coffee will be ready by 10 a.m. There's nothing wrong with that, but like I said before, when your organization only reflects that, the culture cannot keep up.

SPEAKER_04 26:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:31

You know what I'm saying? So, like for people who are recovering from church hurt, I mean, how did how did you how did you learn to trust again coming to our church? Now, I I know you said that there's a lot of people.

SPEAKER_04 26:46

No, it was not easy. Yeah, I thought you for a long time even getting connected to anybody. You know, I would come to a service, hear the word, and I got that door.

SPEAKER_02 26:59

Not just you, the kids too. The kids are like, okay, let's get out of here. Like they were ready to do it. We're done.

SPEAKER_04 27:04

Like, we we got what we came for. Thanks. Um, and so it was still very hard, and I'm still learning, I'm still healing. It was still very hard to connect to the people and let myself be vulnerable to have relationships and to be connected to groups and to be back in the choir, and that was very, very hard for me. Yeah, you know, we talked about it for a long time, and I was like, no, I'm good.

SPEAKER_02 27:42

I didn't even think you were gonna join. I didn't even think you were gonna join because I'm like, man, like I and I didn't want to force you into it, you know, but I did know that you had some experience around it, and I knew that I didn't want to be like, you're gonna do this. Like, I wanted you to find your way into that. So I'm very happy that you that you are doing that. I mean, I think you you have a gifting and you have you know a gifting of connecting with others, which is a huge asset to our team, and you you sound pretty darn good as well. So I mean that's to me, it's a huge part of it. I mean, so I think I think one thing, I think there's some takeaways. I think number one, we can say that, you know, if you're doing if you're if you're going through church hurt, one thing that you don't want to do is just get up and leave the church.

SPEAKER_04 28:37

No.

SPEAKER_02 28:37

I mean, church hurt is, and and I think you you I think your therapist tells you this, it's it's a mirror into what something is that already happened.

SPEAKER_04 28:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:50

So if you're offended, you have to view, okay, where is this coming from? Is this coming from something from my childhood? Is this a previous experience in your case? Like getting up and saying, throwing up hands and saying, well, I'm done here. I think it's fair to say that that's like 70% of people who switch churches is people who have that experience.

SPEAKER_01 29:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:13

And here's the thing: church is an extroverted experience.

SPEAKER_04 29:19

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 29:20

It's an experience, and and so, and sometimes introverted people get caught up in that, and those people are not necessarily they don't take unexpected results easily.

SPEAKER_01 29:30

No.

SPEAKER_02 29:31

So, I mean, we can just use Knoxville, Tennessee for an for an example. Our church, Transformation Church, was the first church I went to, but I would wager probably 60 to 70 percent of our churches from other churches in this area.

SPEAKER_04 29:46

That's how it always happens.

SPEAKER_02 29:48

Yeah. But how much of that is church hurt? You know, it doesn't so I mean that that's one of the things, is is staying rooted and staying planted. And I mean, the other thing that we talked about, which I agree.

SPEAKER_04 30:03

Here's the thing.

SPEAKER_02 30:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:04

Here's the thing.

SPEAKER_02 30:05

Yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 30:06

Church hurt is real, so I wouldn't say stay planted.

SPEAKER_02 30:10

So how do you know when it's time to go?

SPEAKER_04 30:12

Oh, you know when it's time to go.

SPEAKER_02 30:14

Give me an example. You know when it's time to go. I mean, what are we talking about?

SPEAKER_04 30:17

But what what the difference is, is I wish I personally would not have walked away from the church.

SPEAKER_01 30:31

Ah, okay.

SPEAKER_04 30:33

I wish I would have just walked away from that church.

SPEAKER_01 30:36

Okay, correct. Correct.

SPEAKER_02 30:40

Is this church in Knoxville?

SPEAKER_04 30:41

I know what?

SPEAKER_02 30:43

Is this church in Knoxville?

SPEAKER_04 30:45

Well, I've never lived anywhere else.

SPEAKER_02 30:47

I'm just I just wanted to know if it was in the house. I don't it it it might have been in another town in Tennessee. Anyway, yes, go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 30:58

But yes, so and that's the difference, and I've talked to a bunch of people who have managed very well to differentiate between leaving that church and planting themselves elsewhere. And so if you feel like that's what needs to be done, and you feel like you're justified. Why are you looking at me like that, babe?

SPEAKER_02 31:39

Uh okay, yes, if justified. If justified.

SPEAKER_04 31:45

So you can't say safety.

SPEAKER_02 31:46

How do we know it's okay, but again, how do we know it's not offense? How do you know that it's offense versus the organization?

SPEAKER_04 31:55

Here's my thing. You cannot tell people what is too much for them.

SPEAKER_02 32:02

Fair.

SPEAKER_04 32:04

So what I will say is if you feel like don't don't leave God, first of all, understand the difference between the people of God and God. So don't give up on God and your relationship with God because you've been hurt in a place by people. Find somewhere else to plug in to keep your relationship, to deepen your relationship, and people that you can trust.

SPEAKER_02 32:43

Yeah, don't don't suppress what you experienced. I feel like that is a big part of what leads to church hurt really festering, is you feel like there's nobody you can talk to because Oh my gosh, yes. Because, you know, the the machinery of the church will prevent any discord or disagreement. But that's not the way to do it. The actual way to do it is to actually be as transparent as possible because this is church. This is not, you know, this is not a social club. You should be able to be vulnerable, you should be able to be transparent. So um, but yeah, I mean, just leaving the church doesn't work, you know. Literally, don't suppress feelings, and then don't don't don't expect perfection from imperfect people.

SPEAKER_04 33:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 33:37

I have had some of the greatest experiences of my life within the church. I have also had some of the not so greatest experiences in my life in the church. It's a mixed bag. And we need to carry grace. We need to also, you know, expect grace. So that's just, you know, you have to have that mindset. So how do we how do we get through this? Because I I know people, I know people are like, yeah, I experienced that same thing. I mean, what are what are some of the things people can carry with them if they're dealing with this?

SPEAKER_04 34:17

Feeling's possible, and trust is is able to be rebuilt. Your faith in people can be rebuilt, restored. I would just say make sure that you're understanding that God did not fail you. Oh man, yes, that this was a people thing. And sometimes we forget we hold these people to such high regard, we almost put them as gods. And so because this is a place where you're expecting love and grace and patience and safety and truth, yeah, you are so vulnerable and so caught off guard that it almost guts you in the most traumatic way.

SPEAKER_02 35:28

Yeah, it is pure trauma, and you know, God, Jesus said, you know, in this in this world, you will have trouble. That includes the church.

SPEAKER_03 35:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:40

But having a knowing this, having a mindset attuned to this will help you bring the fruits of the spirit to bear so that you can, you know, follow the spirit when it comes to these these these situations, you know. So again, we just we just so thankful uh for y'all checking us out uh tonight. Again, we wanna we want to thank y'all for riding with us. This is an awesome, awesome episode. And I don't know what it what are your tech takeaways, baby. I mean, what what what do you have for the people as we as we close out?

SPEAKER_04 36:14

Um, I just want to leave them with this scripture. It's it's Psalms 34, 18 that says, the Lord is close to the brokenhearted. And that is one of those that I know to be also true because he never left me, he never gave up on me. He heard my prayers, my tears, my heart, and he brought me back, he brought me what I needed to be pulled back into his house. And I am ever so grateful for that. But he does not give up on you, and so we need to not give up on God.

SPEAKER_02 36:58

Wow. Well, as y'all can tell, my wife is very wise. That was awesome. Um, thank y'all for joining us once again. We'll be back for more uh unrehearsed. Thank y'all, we love y'all. Peace.