Boundaries & Banter

Husband Wanted to Date Another Woman… How Faith Saved Me

• Taryn & Michela • Episode 16

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0:00 | 49:48

Husband dated another woman while they were still married — and Amanda stayed for six months. What happened next completely transformed her life.

In this powerful guest episode, Amanda Pastrnak shares the raw story of betrayal, the moment her husband confessed he wanted to explore other options, and how surrendering to God’s plan turned her deepest pain into profound faith and healing.

Taryn and Michela dive deep into marriage, red flags, forgiveness, and what it really means to trust God when your entire future falls apart.

Timestamps:
00:00 Obsession of the Week
05:30 From the Top — Amanda’s full story
12:30 The confession that changed everything
20:00 The 6 months she stayed while he dated someone else
28:00 The Conversation — Faith, surrender & forgiveness
44:30 Would You Rather

If you’ve ever had your marriage or life plan shattered, this episode will give you hope, strength, and a fresh perspective on God’s will vs. our plans.

New episodes every two weeks.
Send your listener letter → link in bio (or boundariesandbanter@gmail.com)

#BoundariesAndBanter #FaithAfterBetrayal #MarriageBetrayal #GodsPlan #DivorceHealing #Surrender #AmandaPastrnak

Boundaries & Banter is a women's conversation podcast hosted by Taryn and Michela.

New episodes every two weeks.
Send your listener letter → link in bio (or boundariesandbanter@gmail.com)

#BoundariesAndBanter #FaithAfterBetrayal #MarriageBetrayal #GodsPlan #DivorceHealing #Surrender #AmandaPastrnak

Boundaries & Banter is a women's conversation podcast hosted by Taryn and Michela.
Welcome to Boundaries & Banter 🎙️ — Real talk on family boundaries, in-law drama, toxic relationships, narcissism, estrangement, therapy, dating red flags & friendship breakups.

Join sisters-in-law Taryn & Michela (South African girls married into a huge Sephardic family with zero boundaries) for raw, funny, heartfelt conversations that actually help you protect your peace.

💬 New episodes every week | Mental health, accountability, green flags & no-filter girl talk.

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💌 Share your story: boundariesandbanter@gmail.com

#BoundariesAndBanter #FamilyBoundaries #InLawDrama #Narcissism #Estrangement #TherapyGreenFlag #DatingRedFlags #MentalHealthPodcast #WomensPodcast #RealTalkPodcast

SPEAKER_01

Okay, what are we obsessed with, ladies? Who's going first? I'll go first. Okay. Yeah. This is good. Okay. I recently went on a trip to Mexico City for my birthday, and I had been before, but I don't think I got the full experience of it. And this last time I went, I really, really, really, really, really, really fell in love with Mexico City. Yeah. The energy. Everybody's walking around. It's beautiful. I mean, it's like a city built in a jungle. They're like the trees are everywhere. The nature is magnificent. It's definitely gentrified. So I'm sure there are gonna be people watching this being like, but it's gentrified, and that's why you like it. And sure, maybe. But it's just beautiful and cool and eclectic. And you know, I the food is amazing. And I just felt really happy every morning waking up there. Like I was so excited to be there. You'll be back. I'll be back. Oh, I love that. Quick trip, three and a half hours from LA. Oh, nice. Pretty affordable, honestly, for a vacation. Unbelievable.

SPEAKER_02

Really? Did you go for vacation or did you say?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I went for my birthday just for a few days. Oh, cool. It's like quick to get there. Quick, easy. I don't know why I thought it was like a five-hour flight. No, it's easy. It's quick. And you can walk everywhere. I love it.

SPEAKER_02

I love that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

What are you obsessed with? So lately I thought I always hated honey, but I've become obsessed with honey. Like it's in everything now. I make like iced honey, salted lattes. It's there's so I like don't even I usually spend like way too much of on coffee going out every single week. But now I just like make it at home because no one can beat the that coffee that I make. It's so good. And it it can be any.

SPEAKER_01

Why did you think you hated honey?

SPEAKER_02

I don't know. I just I always thought I really just didn't like honey. I was never like a fan of like honey nut Cheerios, or I'm just like you, honey, gross. Like, I don't know. Sometimes I just get weird. Um, and I don't know if it was like a texture thing. I have no idea. But um, but now it's on everything. I put it on like my toasts on like like how did you discover you liked it? Oh, how did I? I don't know. One day I think I just was like, you know what? Everyone's oh, it was that viral honey bowl. Have you guys seen those where it's like ground beef and then it's like sweet potato and I actually I have seen cottage cheese with honey is really good. Yeah, and that's yeah. So then good culture with honey. You can't get better than good culture. It's and two percent.

SPEAKER_00

You have no, you have to try the double cream. Really? It's the green one. Okay, I'll have to try that. It is I'm obsessed with that. I don't get the low fat one anymore. I get four fat or double cream.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, I was I was recommended when they were, it was all the rage too, the two percent. And so I started with the two percent and I loved it. And I did get a low-fat one one time when I was like, ooh, this one's not like texture-wise, just was not right for me. Um, but then I tried the two percent and was obsessed.

SPEAKER_00

So you have to do the four percent or the six percent okay. It's a game to try it.

SPEAKER_02

I'll try it. TikTok made you obsessed with honey. Well, obsessed with honey, yeah. So it's just like on everything now. Like I'll even put cottage cheese on my toast with honey on top of that. I'll put honey on top of my vegetables, on top of my eggs. They're it's actually so good on eggs.

SPEAKER_01

The honey, the hot honey eggs. I saw that. Yeah, so good.

SPEAKER_00

I don't know if I could get behind honey and egg. I'm not kidding. It's honestly a really good recipe.

SPEAKER_02

It's really good. Like the avocado toast with eggs. I like honey.

SPEAKER_00

I like that, but not with egg.

SPEAKER_02

Honey could honey, honey has replaced ketchup for me. Honey can do no wrong. So I'm obsessed with honey right now.

SPEAKER_00

One thing I am not obsessed with is ketchup. Yeah, she's really crazy about it.

SPEAKER_01

Like, I actually am like so. No, she's really crazy about it. When we have dinner, she's like, don't put that on your plate. Like to me. And I'm like, just don't look at it.

SPEAKER_02

I literally eat it plain.

SPEAKER_00

Oh my god. I like it. I think I put it in my pocket. My word. That is like honestly, the worst, and my daughter likes it with you know, whatever she's eating. Like, I won't clean up a plate that's got ketchup. Have you always hated ketchup? I it got worse when I was pregnant with my son. Oh. But I've never really been a ketchup. Actually, funnily enough, though, sometimes I'll dip what I'm eating in ketchup, but I can't like smell it or anything. Anyways, we're going off topic. So interesting. No, I'm not sure. So one thing I'm obsessed with, which is like kind of a problem, but like kind of not, is I really like purging. So like I love to like I love that, like go through my kids' toys. And if it's like unorganized, it like I think that's good. It's like Marie condoing, right? Yeah. Whatever doesn't bring you joy, throw it away.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my gosh, yes, I just watched a TikTok about that today.

SPEAKER_00

I love throwing away. So, anyways, purging is a good thing. It is.

SPEAKER_01

Instagram purging's really good too. Like your followers, if you like followers, I do that. I love to do that. I go through who I follow. I love to do that. And I'm like, I don't give a shit. Yeah, purge.

SPEAKER_02

I purge. I I need to do that actually. I just feel really bad. Because I'm like, oh, I don't want them to like think I hate them. I just mean people. I'm like, I don't care about this, just mute it. But like at that point, yeah, yeah. I'm like, I'm not gonna purge because I feel cute. Yeah, I just feel a little bad sometimes. So I'm like, I'll just mute you because I don't need to see you, but like I don't want to be rude.

SPEAKER_01

So well, we're so happy to have you. Welcome to come to Boundaries and Banter. Well, thanks for having me. So Amanda and I met um at Pilates, and you know, she was telling me her story of life and things, and I just thought it was so interesting, and that it would be something our viewers would really be interested in, and just women in general. So we're so happy to have you here today to tell us a little bit about yourself. Yeah, well, thanks for having me. Thank you so much for coming.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Yeah, it's been a wild ride. Do you want me to just start anyway?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, like, you know, tell us where you're from, your age, and like how kind of like you came to be on this podcast. Like, what's the story that brought you here?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. So um, I'm originally actually from Iowa. I don't know if anyone's familiar because everyone thinks it's like Ohio or Idaho or whatever. It's it's in the Midwest. It's a state in the Midwest. So um, but yeah, grew up there, went to college there, got my advertising degree, and I always knew I wanted to come out to LA. I did an internship um during my college time, and so always wanted to come back out here and really wanted to kind of focus in on acting and modeling and just all that kind of thing. So my parents cut me a deal of like go to college and then we'll let you go out there. We'll help you the first year, because LA is expensive. Um, so they helped me for the first year and then just came out here and stayed there, stayed here for now it's been like 13 years, I think. Yeah, so quite some time. Um, and then I got into acting, and that's actually how I met my what is going to become of the story soon to be ex-husband. Um so yeah, what kind of brought me here is my story of, you know, a little over, I don't even know the timing of it, honestly, because you know, when you go through something like that, you're kind of like a zombie, to be honest. But um it was a little over a year and a half ago, I believe it was. And um, it was just one one day my husband decided that he was um in a place where he wanted to just explore other options. So obviously very alarming, not what I had in mind for my path of being married. We were together before being married for about six and a half years. Wow, and then married for two. Um, and it just was like all of a sudden one day it was he just was out of the blue. Out of the blue, I mean, I you know, as a woman, you have intuition, you do. And so, like when we're going and buying um a fellow employee a water bottle, that's her favorite color for her birthday, you're kind of like, Oh, oh, why are we doing that? I I don't understand. Kind of like, why do we know her favorite color?

SPEAKER_01

Like so he when he said, you know, he wants to explore other options, he meant other women. A specific a specific other option. And how how old were you at this time?

SPEAKER_02

I believe I was 32. Okay. 32, yeah. So uh again, very much not so what I had in mind for life, for sure. Like it wasn't the trajectory um that I wanted, and I really want and still want to be a mom. And so it was actually crazy too, because I remember so vividly us even trying for a child. Wow. Um, and then three weeks later he just brought this to me.

SPEAKER_01

Wow.

SPEAKER_00

Did he want it to be like an open situation?

SPEAKER_02

I think he would love that probably. Um, like I would not love that, um, probably. Um, but I don't think that that was really a conversation at all. I think it was more just like I feel so much towards this person. And I have to give him credit. He was very honest. It's not like he hid it. He didn't hide anything. He gave me the choice, I guess, to say, which, you know, you always have a choice, you don't have to stay. Um, but he gave me the choice of like, you know, I do want to explore this option, and you know, we can either stay while I do or we can, you know.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, interesting. So he actually came to you to say, I'm having feelings for a specific person at my work. Yes. And I want to explore that, but I'd still like to stay married to you. Yes.

SPEAKER_00

That would be hearing that make you feel.

SPEAKER_02

Oh gosh. The feeling itself is undescribable. Like it, it's the one of those feelings where your heart just truly does drop to your feet. Like almost instantaneously, I became not hungry, an anxiety like tornado. Like I just I was in fight or flight for a very long time. I lost a lot of weight to the point where it was really scary for a lot of people around me. Um, especially because previous to this too, like in my growing up years, I did struggle with an eating disorder. So, with that as well, it was a very alarming time for a lot of my family and friends, especially when they had no idea what was going on. My sister, I I really wasn't talking to anybody outside of really my partner at the time and uh one therapist.

SPEAKER_01

Um, so you didn't tell anyone in your family that he had come to you with this.

SPEAKER_02

No, not no, because it was actually the week of my sister's wedding that this was happening. So to be fair, I actually did tell my mom only because I was like, I know that I'm not going to be my full self. Like I'm gonna be a zombie of myself and I don't And he was gonna be there, and he was gonna be there. So it's like I couldn't have all the questions, and I just so badly didn't want to make it about me. Like I needed that to be about my sister, you know, like that was her time, that was her moment, and like I didn't want anything to be talked about about me.

SPEAKER_00

Um, so I was you sort of wish he waited till after the wedding.

SPEAKER_02

Totally. Like that was the one thing too that I was like always grappling with in my mind was like, couldn't you have just waited a week? Like, I know that's like a joke because like couldn't you have never done that? But like also, like, like, yeah, could you right some wherewithal? Yeah. So um, yeah, it was a really, really hard time. And there was just like so many feelings all at once. And then obviously, naturally, as a woman too, you go to like, what did I do wrong? How was I not measuring up? Like, what could I have done better? Uh, you know, all the things, you know, and it it just you always turn inward, which I think at points is a good thing because you're always wanting to grow and reflect on yourself. But at some points, it's it might have nothing to do with you. And it also now, with all of that, it led me to my relationship with God and like my entire life has completely and radically changed. Um, but yeah, with it leading you there, sometimes it's like maybe it was just all a part of the plan, the greater plan. And the one thing I'm learning through all of this is it's all in his will, not mine. And so maybe this just wasn't the right relationship for me. And I would, I would have never left it because I'm I'm a very loyal person and I will go to the ends of the earth for someone that I love. And so I was never going to leave. So it took God, you know, creating a situation where he could make it better for me.

SPEAKER_01

So kind of walk us through a little bit about how like the moment when he told you what it felt like and what you did after.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, so again, it it just felt like I was kind of in an alternate reality. I didn't feel like I was I immediately like just left my body at that point. It really was. It just like almost like instantaneously, my heart started pounding like I was gonna have a heart attack. My like heart dropped to my feet. I like couldn't believe that this was happening. He this was also he was working at a place where he worked the late shift. So it this was like three in the morning too. He like woke me up and was like, I really I can't sit with this anymore. I have to tell you. And again, with my intuition, I kind of knew it was coming at a point, you know, because there were always questions where you're like, okay, why are we buying her a water bottle? Why are we, why are we getting her dinner? Like, what what are we, why'd you get DoorDash for her? Like, so there were little things that obviously weren't making sense um or adding up. And then then you as a woman go into their phones and you find things too. And so you're just kind of like, these things are not adding up. Like, um, so it just was very emotional, but also very out of body. And then the next step for me was really I I I believe it was like literally the next day, or I the timing might be way off here, but whether it was the next day or very soon after, like I had to get on a plane to get to my sister's wedding. So it was very much so like I didn't really have time to fully deal, deal with it in the moment because I had, I was the maid of honor. I had duties, responsibilities, tasks that I needed to get done and make sure that my sister felt ready for her day. Um, which was also so hard because when I was reading their vows to each other, they were talking so much about differences, bringing them together. And a lot of what my ex was talking about was how our differences were too different and they he wanted someone to apart. Yeah, exactly. So it was very hard to even read her vows, even. And I was like crying and pretending that, like, oh, they're so beautiful, which they were so beautiful, don't get me wrong. Right. Crying. Yeah, you're like, And she didn't know. She had no idea. No, no, no. I know she knew there was something off because we are a very, very close um and sisters, and she's my best friend too. So she knew immediately that there was something off, but I just I had prefaced for a long time prior, kind of setting it up, that I was really, really stressed about work. And so I just kind of always was like, oh, it's just work, it's just work, don't worry about it. It's just, I'm so stressed about getting a candidate placed. Like I just kept going on and on with the the narrative that it was work. So that way, you know, in our family, when it's work, we're like, oh yeah, we get it. But it's kind of one of those things that then you just kind of move on to the from a different conversation, you know? So um, I don't think I really handled anything until, you know, we got back, which was also just hard because then also having my ex at the wedding, having him a part of the wedding, I like just internally knew or had a strong feeling that it wasn't going to end the way I really wanted it to. And so seeing him be intertwined with my family so deeply, because he was like in the wedding taking down my grandma. It was probably the hardest part of it all. Like, I knew like deep down I'm not staying in this. I didn't know that I wasn't gonna stay in it, but I didn't think we were going to stay together to make it, yeah. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01

Because I I just didn't but it was your decision, like you were faced with the decision of whether or not to stay while he explores this kind of other opportunity or leave.

SPEAKER_02

Right. And honestly, I didn't leave. So for six months I watched him date another woman. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and that was really, really hard. But I constantly just like, you know, was diving into my faith and trying. Well, actually, at first I like sought a sidekick.

SPEAKER_00

I saw I saw a lot of not the good things, let me tell you. Did he he didn't did he like rub it in your face that he was like dating this other person with you with you guys still living together?

SPEAKER_02

It was never like rubbing, but like we shared a car at that point. So I like was always aware of when he was out, what he was doing. Um that must have been really hard. It was it was so hard. And like I always- Oh no, thank you. I appreciate that. I mean, I've done a lot of work, so I've come to terms with everything, honestly, and like know that it's gonna bring me to the woman that I need to be for my future um person, my future children. And and hopefully too, I can I can help other women, you know, who might go through something similar. Or honestly, even I just think about how sometimes it's really hard for my mom to understand me and understand like the heartaches that I've been through and like the things that I go through because she just has been married to my dad for forever. And so like she just doesn't understand.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And so I also am like, well, this can help me with my daughter, you know, or also raise a son that, you know, has God from the get-go and respect, not that he doesn't respect women again, not here to bash him, but like just like utterly respects women. Yeah. And, you know, also just respects himself too enough to make sure that he's doing the right things. And if he's not in the place where he wants to be with one woman, that's totally fine in his right. But then don't be in a in a relationship, let alone a marriage, you know. Right. So after six months. Oh, right, right. So for six months, you know, kind of watched them date essentially, and him and I were still, you know, obviously married and you know, I wouldn't say going strong, but like we were together. Um, and then just one day we went to um Girls Gone Bible as someone is our two girls that I started following, and they helped, you know, develop my faith even more so too, and were just great influences for me, um, and a lot of women, honestly. Um, but we they were on tour, and so we went to San Diego all together, him, my his mom, me, and we went to this, and I know it was a really major turning point for him too in his faith, which I thought was really beautiful. Um, but after that weekend, I kind of knew that that was gonna be the last weekend we were all together. Um, just because we all had the talk that he would then go live with his mom for a while.

SPEAKER_00

Um so his parents knew about this, and your parents at this point knew what was going on.

SPEAKER_02

At this point, yes.

SPEAKER_00

Okay.

SPEAKER_02

And he he is um a son to a single mom. So he did only have a mom. Um, so so yeah, so she was fully aware of everything that has been involved too. And um, yeah, has she's also just been such a great presence too, though. She's a firm believer in God. And so um she was really helpful during that time for me when I finally was able to talk to her. Um, because it was it was up to him to tell her. I I was like, I'm not telling her. That's not my side of things. So, like, if you're never gonna tell her and never want her to know, then that's that's your right. And so I'm gonna stay out of it. But he eventually did tell her because I think he needed her support. Um, and so yeah, so then she was kind of a sounding board for me as well and led me to a lot of scripture. Um, one of which like really kept me going, which was like, no weapon formed against you shall prosper. And it just reminded me that through all of this, no matter what it was trying to do to me, like, you know, a weapon obviously tries to kill you. And so, like, even though it was slowly trying to kill me, you know, it's not gonna prosper and I'm going to make it through. So that was a really helpful scripture for me to turn to. Um but yeah, basically after that weekend together, we just thought it all of us thought it best for him to go live with her for a while. Um, and then it just kind of one month turned to into another month. And I know that I know that we probably obviously have different per perceptions of how everything went down, but my perception is is like the more and more we were apart, the more I heard from him things that happened out there. And I just was like, yeah, this isn't your place to come home to anymore.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

SPEAKER_02

So then I lived with his stuff for quite a long time. Like I don't know, that was like almost now it's been over a year, but like when he left, it was um, I believe April of last year's when he left um and didn't take his stuff. So I was living with his stuff from April to like October, I think is what it was. Long time. Yeah, and so then finally this past October, he came and got his stuff. Is that the first time that you had seen him? First time that I had seen him. And honestly, like we only talked, we didn't really talk much actually at all, but like just from when he left, we like talked um I think the first week he was gone, really. And then really there was not much communication from there. Um, so yeah, it was like the first time that I saw him. Um, and obviously it was very strange, very weird. Um, and him getting his stuff was just kind of like the last. Thing to happen before it all happens and then like closure. Yeah, and then now we're still in like the paperwork of things because you don't really realize how it takes a long time. It takes such a long time.

SPEAKER_00

I didn't know that. I thought it was just signing a yeah. When I was in family lot, it takes a long time. So it's not just like we're getting divorced, we sign a paper. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_01

I didn't know that. And it's I mean, imagine with kids, it takes a really long time.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and that's that's the thing. Like we had dogs, but they're now mine.

SPEAKER_00

But um Did that all have to be like ironed? Does that have to be like ironed out?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, everything has to at least like because he also really wanted to make it known that like one of our dogs in particular, um, I guess like seeing the paperwork and all the things, but like um in the the paperwork, it's like if one of them ever, if I ever need to not have one, this is the one that he wants to take, essentially. So, like, because you want to do that. Like, you want to find it always a favorite. Yeah. Oh, of course, of course. It was always a favorite, but um, it's fine. I love both my dogs, but um no, it's just like in all the writing. And so you have to be so meticulous and you have to be so careful and you have to read everything, and then then the lawyers take forever. Like it's just been like one thing after the other. Like my lawyer, like he's like, Oh, I'm so sorry, it's been forever since I've gotten back to you. Someone quit and I've been so it's like then it's like the weird things that like are taking a longer time. Like, why why did that happen? Like, can we just get this going? Like, my clients, right? I mean, obviously it's it's emotional. I don't want to take away from that, but also it's like, okay, let's get the show in the room. How long am I gonna just sit here now? You know, so yes, it is what that is. And you know, I think it's so interesting though, like towards the beginning of it all, when you finally know you are separating, even the little things like you're taking him off your benefits, and that's like a whole thing that you didn't even think, or like randomly you're getting a text from his dentist saying he's due for his cleaning, and you're like like the actual complete separation of two lives that have been formed together is the devil really is in the details, and it's all it's all in like these little things you don't even think of.

SPEAKER_01

It's not just a lot, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So after he came and got his stuff in October, were you feeling more obviously not like comfortable with the situation? Like, I don't think that you'll ever be like, you know, but were you feeling more of like an emotional separation? Because it's really hard when someone leaves so abruptly and you're still, you know, you're so tied to them.

SPEAKER_01

Also, he was correct, but from what I remember us talking, he was the first person that you had been in a relationship with, right?

SPEAKER_02

So yeah, he was my first boyfriend, my first um just everything. Can we talk about sex? Yeah, okay. Um, my first sexual experience, like my first literally everything. Yeah, he was all you knew. He was all I knew. Like, and and then a big chunk of my life, obviously. When you're when you're dating someone from 25 to 30, 32 or whatever, like that's a really big chunk of your life, of your adulthood, of like learning to know yourself and navigating life as as an adult. Like it was um, it was a lot. And you know, one thing my dad did say, you know, from the get-go was like, he does think that we both don't know each other, like our own selves. And so this is gonna be a really hard relationship to remain, which was your dad said that when you guys first got together.

SPEAKER_01

He said that to you when you were 25. Interesting. He's like, I don't think either of you know yourselves well enough for this relationship to be sustainable. Yeah, he told me that. He did obviously. But he said it to you. Well, that is do you believe like how the parents know? I know, right?

SPEAKER_02

I was like, dad, and he never gets like that. So I was like, oh, weird. But no, I I didn't think he was right. I thought he was like, what are you talking about? I was like, I've I know myself. Like you don't know anything about him.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, you're like, I love him, and we know each other, and we know we're saying.

SPEAKER_02

You know yourself, Dad? Yeah, I don't think so. Um, but whatever. But no, like he, you know, so um, I mean, on all in all, like it led me to God. Um, and I think that that's the biggest takeaway I have is just that now I get to have such an amazing and beautiful relationship with God, and I still really wrestle with him because I think going through something like this, being a 34-year-old woman now, it like and wanting to be a mom, there's a lot that you have to surrender because it really is that's why I got my tattoo that says his will, but it's really his will, not mine. Like, whatever his plan is for me, I have to surrender my plan to that because his plan is always better.

SPEAKER_00

When they say, like, we plan, God laughs.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. 100%. Yeah. 100%. That's it's like, you know, your mom always tells you that throughout your life growing up, and you're like, whatever, whatever, mom.

SPEAKER_01

But I love that you're here to talk about this because obviously we're really devout toward Judaism. And it's and I think when you're devout to something like Judaism or Christianity, and you really are a big believer, like God or the universe or whatever higher power it is you believe in, there's a plan that's already written out and you're just like living through it. Right. And so this was you in your plan. And it must be, I think it requires so much strength to be able to surrender to that because right, like you said, you're 34, you're grappling with all these feelings of like everything I knew is gone. Yeah. I wanted to be a mom. This is not where I thought I would be when I'm 34. Right right now, I have to believe in this fictional thing that I don't see, that it's just part of this plan, and somehow it's all gonna come together in the way that my life is supposed to be.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly. It's really hard to let, like, I feel like looking at you, I'm like, wow, like you let go. Like that's the right thing. Like you did what you needed to do. But if you're in that situation, it's extremely hard to give up that control.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and I didn't for a very, very long time. And I and I'd be lying to say that I I still fully given up because something now that I've definitely given up on the hold that I've had on that relationship. Um, right, you know, there's been new people that have come into my life. And that was another thing that was so crazy. When I finally decided to dive fully in with God, I got baptized and it was such a beautiful experience. And I had never felt the Holy Spirit the way that I did that day. It was insane. Like everyone that like randomly, you know, the things where you invite people to things and they're like, yeah, I'll come. And then they're not there. I invited people to this because I was like, oh, they're gonna all flake. It's fine. Every single person showed up, every single one. So it's like everyone from all cracks of my life were at were there. And then it's like beyond that, like the whole, the whole day just was like so magical, magical and beautiful. But then from there, I meant, met two Christian mentors. I, you know, the way that he was just placing people that had such extreme godly wisdom into my life, I just knew it was like an orchestration of him. And I just, you know, was so grateful for that because I still struggle a lot with, oh, like, am I hearing God or is that just like my gut? Like, or is that God? Or, oh, did God just speak to me? Or, or like what? Like, how do I hear him? Yeah. And like, and I know that the more and more you dive into scripture, the more you can like decipher who's God, who's not, and what voices you should be, you know, partaking in conversations with. But just yeah, the way that he like implanted people in my life and the way that like it's also even changed my mom's faith. Like, she at first was like, oh, Manda, God can't do that. And I'm like, I was like, Mom, God can literally do anything. Um, she was also very strict Catholic. And so, like, just very much so not a relationship with him. Um, it was just like, oh, how can I show him gratitude? What can I pray about? Like, just do the check marks and like all of that. And then we're on our way, but it wasn't like a firm relationship. I I kind of make the joke, but I really do do it. I'm constantly like inviting God into every aspect of my life. So, like, even for what I was wearing today, I was like, God, is this like a good thing to wear? Do you think I is it like respectful? Like, I really love that. I really love that driving. I'm like, please, God, be with me right now because like I am about to be really late and I'm gonna get very road ragey and I don't want to be that person. So can you just be with me?

SPEAKER_01

You're always, you're always kind of like seeking this higher power to guide you to be the best version of yourself. I think that's fantastic.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. And even before this, I was like, please, God, like whatever you want me to share, allow me to share it, but like also eloquently and with your wisdom, like speak through me, God, because I I really do just now at this point want to be a vessel for him and do whatever he has planned for me, whatever that looks like. And am I gonna stumble and fall along the way and probably do some stupid things? I think, yeah, 100%. Cause obviously none of us are perfect. Otherwise, we'd be God or Jesus, what we believe in. And um, I'm just trying daily the best that I can, but also to not get so like overwhelmed with still my idea of life. Because when you are 34, you have, you know, the ticking time bomb. And it's not even the time bomb of like, oh, this is what society needs of me and wants of me. Like your biological claims. Yeah, it's like I want healthy children. Yeah. And if God gives that to me at 40, great. Like, totally fine. I just want them to be healthy and it's just beyond 35. You're you're a geriatric pregnancy. It's true, you know?

SPEAKER_00

So it's well, if this overroll me makes you feel better. I read something. I read something the other day that there are more pregnancies now with women over 40 and over. I love that. Than teens.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. I actually heard that, I think, on the radio.

SPEAKER_00

It's crazy. I love that.

SPEAKER_01

Can I ask you something? Please. I have two questions. They're unrelated. One is how had you how did you grapple with forgiving your ex-husband, forgiving the girl, girl that he I mean, was it cheating?

SPEAKER_02

I mean, that's like always the fine line. I think for a long time he even was like, well, it's not cheating because I'm I'm telling you what I'm doing. And you know, I have I really do have to give him kudos of the fact that I can't imagine how hard that is to come to a person and say, like, I need to explore this option because I just think that this might be my once-in-a-lifetime person. Yeah. So especially when you're like, well, that was supposed to be me. Yeah. Um, so that's weird. But um so I I do have to give him credit for being honest through the whole thing. He really was extremely like almost overly honest, but then I wasn't like in the blue.

SPEAKER_01

And okay, so my question to you then is that how did you forgive him? How did you forgive her? How did you have any anger towards yourself for staying for that six months? Because I will say, I think a lot of women will hear this and think, well, you should have left and you should have this. And I think it's so much more complex. It's actually why I really love your story because I don't think that there is one way to handle this. Yeah. And you were in a really difficult position. And I think you're you deserve a lot of grace for staying for that six months because you were so young, you didn't know anything else. There's what if you wanted to stay for forever? You know, that's your choice.

SPEAKER_00

Well, looking back on it, would you have stayed so six months again?

SPEAKER_01

But also like, and how did you forgive all of these parties involved, including yourself?

SPEAKER_02

So I think it's really hard. And the one thing that I have to work on in my life is forgiving myself for every for anything that I do in life, because I'm very, very hard on myself. So that one I'm I if in full honesty, I'm probably still working on forgiving myself, just even for probably, you know, ignoring red flags in the beginning and and ignoring um the age gap and and just a just things, you know. Um, and so that requires a whole different side of forgiveness. But um to forgive him, I I'm just a very forgiving person, actually. So, you know, I think that there's still aspects of it where I need to dive deeper into the forgiveness because I think overall the actual act of it, of him cheating or whatever we want to call it, I have forgiven on both ends, on both parties, for her, for him, because I just know that they now diving deeper, you know, they both are broken people. And, you know, they just both need to find what I have been able to find, you know, and um they I don't think meant any harm, but I don't think that they thought beyond themselves. Right. Um, but yeah, I wish them both truly nothing but the best. And for them to both find their their people, and you know, if that ends up being them, obviously I don't know either one of their situation now. I have no idea, but if that ends up being them together, great. If it ends up them finding their perfect people, amazing.

SPEAKER_00

You wish them well.

SPEAKER_02

I do. I wish them so well. And I do know from just to not get into her story, but I know from obviously him sharing when he was talking to her, um, I know some of her story. And I do know that there is a lot there that I can have empathy for. And I really hope she is in a better place. And I hope she, you know, is respected in her future relationships. Um, because I know in the past she hadn't been. Um, and I don't want to give away her story, so I'll leave it at that. But um, I have forgiven them. It took me a minute. Um, it was not easy, but it was a lot of just like, this is what God would want from you, and God has forgiven you for all the wrongdoings that you've done, and no sin that you have, you know, done is like considered better than their sins that they did to you. And it's just unfortunate that it was done to you, but you still have to forgive them. So definitely have forgiven them on those aspects. I think I'm still grappling with the forgiveness of this may put my motherhood in jeopardy, yeah, kind of idea. That one I'm still really struggling with. However, I'm working on that one. Yeah, that one's gonna be a process. Um, but yeah, I'm I'm working on that. And I looking back the whole time, because when I finally was able to talk to people about it, they were like, kick him out. Do we need to fly out there, get his boxes out, kick him out? Like, what? And I just was like, no, no, like that's not how I want to handle this. I want to handle this with the love and care that I've given to this entire relationship, the patience, the kindness, like just the whole thing, you know. That's just and and some may look at that and be like, wow, you don't respect yourself at all, and you're a weak person. And that's okay if that's their view of me then, and that's fine.

SPEAKER_00

Interpretation, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

But for me, I'm like, I think so many people are so quick to be like, get him out, like, oh, f that loser, like this and that. And it's just like, that's never been who I am innately as a human being. I'm just a lover. Um, and a lot of the times a lover more than I love myself. So I know that that's something to work on. But I do think even still knowing and loving yourself, you can still be a kind and respectful human being to somebody else. And I just wasn't in the place to fully end it. This was a marriage. It wasn't just a relationship for me. I I promised in sickness and in health, like in the good and bad times. And weirdly, the quote from the vow was always playing in my head during that time where like the movie? Yes, where she goes to her mom. I don't know if you guys have seen it, but she goes to her mom and something about she found out that her dad had cheated and she was like, Mom, why did you stay?

SPEAKER_01

Oh my gosh, yes. And she goes, because for all of the for all of the for the one bad thing he did, there were a million good things or something. Something to that effect. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Basically, yeah, like because I chose to stay for all the things that he had done right instead of the one that he did wrong. Now, to be fair, my relationship necessarily wasn't always right. So in hindsight, I do feel like, you know, we were two very different people that I do think there was a lot of love there. I don't want to ever take away from that. Like, I don't regret anything that I went through, anything that was done. I don't regret anything. I really don't. Um Would I go back and have an expensive wedding again? No. I would have just I would have just eloped at that point. Like now knowing this, like I would have not spent money on a wedding, but uh that's neither here nor there. Um, but uh with that, I don't regret anything. Like, I don't, you know, I it's been a part of my story. It's been a part of my growth.

SPEAKER_00

It's been a part of where you are now.

SPEAKER_02

I don't think I would be this close with God if I didn't go through that. Honestly.

SPEAKER_00

Would you handle, would you have handled it like looking back? Would you have handled it the same way? Like, would you have stayed or would you have?

SPEAKER_02

I think so because uh again, it for me, like it's a marriage. You promised good and bad times. And like I was trying to navigate like, is this a bad time or is this a time where it's like, yeah, this is not how you're supposed to be treating me, and this is not how a wife should be feeling or made to feel. And because of that, I am I'm gone. I I know in the beginning with him too, over and over and over again, when we were going through this, I was very clearly like, listen, I just don't want to be the girl that stays with a cheater. Like, I don't care if I have to fake it till I make it. I just don't want to be that girl.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Because also, what does that mean then for my daughter? Like, if it is something where I stay, does that mean that that whole energy is going to and spirit is going to be passed down to her? And so someone's gonna cheat on her too, like this, because it has to end with me for lack of better terms, with the whole it ends with us, like you have to break the cycle. I have to break that, yeah. Although that that was obviously not my situation, I don't want to make that relation like at all. Like I at the end of the movie, when she can still look at him lovingly and be like, it has to end with us. Like I for our daughter, I have to end this cycle because it's just gonna continue. Yeah, that was my fear, is too, is like, is this going to, or if it's not my daughter, is it gonna be my niece? Is it gonna be, you know, one that you care about? Like, I I just I can't allow this to go beyond me because I would never wish this pain on anyone in my lifetime, not even my enemy.

SPEAKER_01

And you're probably a completely different person sitting here today than you were five years ago. And you're probably different. Right. This this horrible thing that has happened is actually the thing that elevated you to constantly becoming your highest self for the right person to come into your life.

SPEAKER_02

100%. And I think I think so much that God wants for me now, like seeing it and seeing who he's brought in into my life too, is someone to challenge me and help me grow because that's what I was to my past relationship. Like it was me being the one that was helping him grow, believing in his dream, believing in his wants, like doing all those things, but it wasn't really allowing me to grow any. Right. And now I have people in my life where they're like constantly challenging me to be better, to seek more wisdom, to, you know, be more like God every day, to, you know, work on my side hustles and get more creative and and have more streams of income and just be overall more knowledgeable and not be complacent. And I think that's really I've always been a big proponent of self-growth, but like I think you become stagnant at a point when you're around people that aren't watering your garden. Yeah. Essentially, and not for lack of trying, just like they just like were so okay with life the way that it was. Like, yeah. Yeah. And you know, so then there's you I think it's just naturally you feel like you're growing comparatively, you know, because you're like, well, they're staying the same, but I'm constantly like in a book or in this or trying to think of ideas. But if you're not putting action behind behind any of it, then there really is no growth and it goes to the wayside.

SPEAKER_00

There's such an important takeaway from your story that even though something really bad can happen to you and it feels like the end of the world in this like big catastrophe, yeah, the journey might be hard, but it really takes you where you need to be. And another thing I really like about what you said is that people were telling you, throw him out, like he's awful, he sucks. But it also really shows you like you might get pressure from everyone around you. Like, what are you doing? Like, how can you do? But the fact that you stuck to what you felt was right, yeah, I think is a really important lesson.

SPEAKER_01

That shows a lot more strength, by the way, for anyone that would think that it's weak what you did. Oh, it actually shows a lot of strength to do what feels right to you despite everything that's You know, making a decision to stay is not any easier than making a decision.

SPEAKER_00

Like these people that might have been telling you throw them out or whatever, they're not in the situation. They have no idea like what you're dealing with. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And it's also all my side. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

They probably just like they love you. They just like, or we're like, get out of this situation that we know objectively is helpful, but you're like, I need to go through this, whatever it is. Right. But um, let's get in. We do some would you rathers. Oh, okay. Wow. And I'm sorry to roughly kind of to the would you rathers.

SPEAKER_02

Um I love this. Oh gosh. On the spot.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, well, I'm gonna let we we're gonna all answer, but okay. Would you rather know exactly how your life turns out at 40 or never know and have to trust the process?

SPEAKER_02

My answer today would be never know and just trust the process. Because that's what I need to be doing. I want to know.

SPEAKER_01

Michaela wants to know.

SPEAKER_02

I want to know everything. Yeah. Well, if you knew though, like what, like, would you do things differently, do you think? Or would it, you know? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Maybe. What if you know your life turns out as forward and you're like, this is shite, I don't want this at all. And then you're like, I need to make a radical change. But then what if it would have caused you to not have the right thing? Hold on, but then the not knowing is the faith in God, though. Exactly. So I feel like if I know, then I'm then I'm not uh adhering to the faith I have in God, and that is stronger than me. Yeah. So like that that's I love that answer.

SPEAKER_00

I really love that answer. I think part of the issues, and I think a lot of people struggle with this, like I know I do. I really believe in God. I am very, you know, I'm I'm not religious, but I really do believe in God. I believe that there's a higher power, I believe that everything happens for a reason, but I still think it's very difficult to give up control.

SPEAKER_02

It is, it is, and I think that's the biggest thing is surrendering to God and like leaving everything at his feet is gonna be the hardest thing you do. But I I don't know. I literally just told a coworker this, but I don't know if you guys have seen the picture. There's two that go around and circulate, but it's on my like lock screen so that I remember. But there's one girl, and she either has like a little bear or one flower, and she's like, but I love it. And he's behind him, either has this huge bouquet of flowers or this huge bear, and he's like, just trust me with it. And it's like a whole sign of like, trust me with your life, and I'm gonna give you more than you even could think, you know. I love that. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01

Would you rather go through your hardest season completely alone and come out stronger or have people around you the whole time but never fully heal?

SPEAKER_00

Stronger.

SPEAKER_01

Stronger, always stronger, stronger, 100%.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, you read. Would you rather be the person who keeps the faith when everything goes wrong or the person who loses it and has to find it again?

SPEAKER_02

What do you mean? Keep the faith. Keep the faith.

SPEAKER_00

Would you rather have the life you planned at 25 or the life that you couldn't have imagined than then, but you have now?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, interesting. I mean, what do you mean? If I planned when I was 25 that I'd be like rich and fabulous.

SPEAKER_00

Right, let's keep that one. I love that one. I think it depends.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, right. I mean, ask me in five years because do I want to be where I'm at right this second? No, I would love to be married, you know. But you don't know what's gonna happen for you in five years. Exactly. So that's the thing. It's like, I I'm very hopeful. I'm very hopeful that this all led me to where I need to be. Right. I'm gonna be a wife, I'm gonna be a mom, I'm gonna have all the things. You are, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01

You're gonna be because of everything that's happened to you and you know what it led you to, you're gonna be the most amazing mom and the most amazing wife.

SPEAKER_00

And story will continue to give people strength.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I really I really hope so. Like, I hope a million people listen to this because your story is unbelievable. When I first heard it, I was just like, I feel like every woman needs to hear this.

SPEAKER_02

Well, I think too, like a big takeaway that I really wanted to make known was like truly, when you are at rock bottom, God is the rock at the bottom and he can lift you up. And I was I had watched so many people's stories that they were like, I am so much better now. There's a light at the end of the tunnel. And I honestly, every time was like, this is bullshit. This is bullshit. This is bullshit. Like, no, there's no way. There's no way that you are gonna sit here today and tell me that you're better for this. Like, yeah, aren't you mad? Aren't you like, why did this happen to you? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I couldn't get out of that mentality for actually quite some time. But I'm like here today to tell you that like you are gonna be stronger, you are gonna be better, you are gonna have, you know, a better perspective of life. And you know, maybe you don't know everything, but I think that's something to be said too is you you now know you don't know anything. And so then you're just wanting to learn, wanting to grow. And there is such a light at the end of the tunnel, and you think you're gonna die, and you think you're not gonna make it without this person, but you you really will, and you'll come out better. You really will, and there will be someone that's gonna be out there for you who knows who that is because for so long your brain is wired with like husband being this person. And so, like, it's hard to like even just hear someone say husband and like your brain not pull up the picture of him. It just has happened to me all the time, like, you know, and so that's a hard rewiring, but it will happen. And you're gonna be with somebody that is just like so perfectly meant for you and meets you where you are and might even meet you in your healing and like go through that with you to remind you what a beautiful, amazing human you are and what you have to offer them too.

SPEAKER_01

I think it's a really great place to leave off.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you so much for having me, Amanda. This was so fun. I could talk, I literally was like, oh, what am I gonna talk about for hours? But I could talk more. So thanks so much for having me.