Behind the Badge: Trauma, Crisis, and Finding Humanity

In this episode of Finding Your Voice, I sit down with retired Los Angeles Police Department Detective Garrett Bush to explore the intersection of law enforcement and mental health crisis response.

Drawing from his work with the SMART team and CAMP unit, Garrett shares about his experience in crisis situations while also opening up about his own childhood trauma and challenges within his family.

This conversation is about service, resilience, and the power of meeting people with understanding in their most vulnerable moments.

National Alliance on Mental Illness

https://www.nami.org/

Suicide and Crisis Lifeline

https://988lifeline.org/

Finding Your Voice Instagram Page

https://www.instagram.com/findingyourvoicepodcast/

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hello, I'm Jason Carrasco and welcome to Finding Your Voice. I'm a licensed marriage family and child therapist and a lifelong student of human resilience. For years, I've sat with people and some of their hardest moments moments that have challenged their identity, their spirit, and sometimes their will to keep going. One thing I've learned is that human beings can survive the unthinkable. And with support, a person's pain can become great purpose. This podcast is a home for stories about mental health, human rights, and the courage it takes to move through darkness and toward healing. In these episodes, you'll hear from survivors, clinicians, and everyday people who are brave enough to speak honestly and bold enough to use their voice. You deserve hope, you deserve healing, and you deserve to be heard. Welcome to Finding Your Voice. Let's get started. All right, everybody, welcome to another episode of Finding Your Voice. Once again, I'm Jason Carrasco, licensed marriage family and child therapist, and very happy to be here today. And I want to thank you for taking the time to listen to this episode. So today I am here, have the pleasure of being here with retired LAPD detective Garrett Bush. We're gonna get into some of background and all that good stuff soon, but I want to describe first how we were able or how we came across each other's paths. The LAPD has a program called the System-Wide Mental Assessment Response Team, also known as SMART. These teams pair police officers with mental health clinicians from the Los Angeles County Department of Mental Health to respond to mental health-related calls. Some examples of the calls that SMART receives are for suicides, homicide threats, possible jumpers, school violence, and also they support SWAT and FBI when needed. Their goal is to de-escalate situations and help connect people to mental health services rather than the criminal justice system whenever possible. So they want to avoid people going to jail that don't need to go to jail because of a mental health issue. In 2023, a statistic is that 86% of calls handled by SMART resulted in a 5150 involuntary hold. There's also another program within the LAPD called the Case Assessment Management Program. This is often referred to as CAMP. CAMP pairs LAP detectives with psychologists, nurses, and social workers from the Los Angeles County Department of Mental Health. And the CAMP team focuses on following up with individuals who may be at ongoing risk and helping to connect them to long-term support. So this team reviews cases that need a second look. They try to manage that ongoing risk and then they ensure referrals to appropriate support agencies. So the detectives from camp will also go out to the homes of people who were placed on a 5150 and also remove firearms from their homes. So people in the uh city of Los Angeles, if they've been placed on a 5150, they can no longer have or own a firearm. So the camp detectives will go and remove these from the homes as well. So together, both of these programs, Smart and Camp, and to bring mental health expertise into crisis response and help people get the care they need. Why I'm talking about all of this is because first I started with SMART, but then I went over to the camp unit, and that's where I met Detective Garrett Bush, who's now retired. He has 23 years of service, but that's where I had the opportunity to meet him. I had the opportunity to go out with him on calls, kind of see his work, see him in action. He was absolutely amazing. The way the care that he provided in terms of follow-up services to people who were high risk, extremely high-risk population. From everything, the language that he used, the tone, all of his actions, you know, the empathy that he had. I had a lot of respect and I honestly learned a lot from him in terms of how to work with this type of crisis population and people that were very, very high risk. So welcome, welcome, Bush.

SPEAKER_02 4:18

Thank you, Jason. I appreciate it. Whatever you're drinking, I'll I'll uh give you a case for that nice introduction. I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_00 4:25

You got it, man. You got it. Yeah, I want to thank you for taking the time. I know you're busy. You know, what I really want, you know, one thing that was coming to my mind a little bit before this is sometimes there's a lot of stigma out there about LAPD officers, about how they are with the community, how they are with people, you know, especially with a lot of stuff that's going on right now. And we we can get into talking maybe more about that later. But one thing I want to say that I appreciated about working with all of you, I got to see this completely other side of officers and detectives and how they cared for the community and how they worked for the community, you know, in a pretty amazing way. And so I think it's really, really I want people to get to know you. Do you know what I mean? And and see who you are as a person. So let's get to know you a little bit, man. Why don't we start off? What and I I know we're going way back. I mean, if you can kind of talk about like what shaped you, you know, growing up and and as you grew up prior to getting into law enforcement.

SPEAKER_02 5:30

So I grew up in, I can get into that, you know, that mystique about our that notorious LAPD, right? But going back, I grew up in Inglewood, California. Both my parents are dad was from Louisiana, my mom was from South Central, both their parents are from Louisiana. So like we're Creole. And if you don't know what Creole is, it's pretty much a group of people that are mixed with from that region, down in the Bayous, right? The black, white, meaning white, like French and English and American Indians. We were we were mixed with like Choctaw and Cherokee. Oh, you know, they call us red bones sometimes, you know. I know you I know you can't see me, but I am like if my you look at my DNA, black, we were raised black, but I look white, like, you know, and I'll get those complaints for you know on LEPD, hey, this big white boy said this, this big white boy said that. So going back, you know, I'm from that background to the background where, and you're saying like finding your voice, it's like my parents are old school, right? Just like your parents probably were. Due to the surroundings, we weren't allowed to play outside in the front of the house. We always had to play in the backyard, too dangerous to play outside. We were kind of a maternal family. So my mom's mom, my grandmother, she lived a few blocks down the street, and but that was like 77th division. If anybody knows about anything about 77th division, that's like South Central LA. Both my parents were kind of professionals, right? My dad came, my dad came from a farmer's family. So my my dad, my grandfather, he was like a farmer, and then when the farm went under, they moved uh from Louisiana to Port Arctic, Texas, and he worked, they worked in the uh in the oil oil industry. But my grand, my my dad's dad only had a fourth grade education. Yeah. Believe it or not, yeah. So they had a huge my dad had a huge, my dad's siblings, I think they had like 13 kids, you know, they're you know Catholics. But my dad, you know, he went to the military, so he had that military background, and then he went to the federal government. He got his law degree, law license, passed the bar, and he did family law and taxes on the side, but he retired with the Department of Defense. He had like top secret clearance, and and I could tell you all that stuff if you want to get into all that. I think our phones were tapped back in the 80s. Yeah, because yeah, I mean, it's crazy stuff, the things that he he was involved in. So discipline family. We really kids didn't have a voice back then, you know, kids you're to be seen, not heard. You know, during family events, they had kid tables, right? I we sit at the kid tables until we're old enough to go, yeah, mingle with the adults. They use that mentality, how you train elephants, right? You when the elephant's really young, you put that elephant, you put this big chain on this little elephant, and this little elephant can't move this chain, so it's stuck to this pole in a chain. And as that elephant grows, he still thinks he can't move that chain, even though he can rip that chain out and stroll down the street away from the circus. But he doesn't realize that. So my parents literally, you know, they beat me and my brother into like, hey, we're not your friend, we're your parent, we're I'm your dad, I'm your and you're not gonna talk back to us and do the right path, do things the way we want you to do it. So no, we really didn't have a voice, right? We were we were told, especially at the military, we were told what to think, how to feel, how to vote, things of that nature, until, you know, we my brother and I we moved out of the house. How old were you when you moved out? I was in my 20s. My brother, he had he couldn't handle what was going on at the home. He had a tough time trying to live up to their expectations. So my brother, he got into dope drugs, he was a meth dealer, in and out of jail. Go figure, you know, one son's a criminal, one son's a cop. He eventually turned his life around, and you know, he's he's been sober now for 30 years. So you all that's amazing. He's a success story. He was using so much meth. I I don't know. I think it's only the Lord's intervention that he doesn't have. Like you and I see it all the time. How messed up your mind is on meth. He was dealing it, selling it, using it back then, and he had he has no signs of physical and mental deterioration from using and slamming now. He slam he slammed it, he used he used needles.

SPEAKER_00 9:52

Well, that's that's amazing that he was able to get things turned around and be able to get clean and and live a good life. I'm happy to hear that. Talk about that. How obviously he was struggling with his addiction, right? He had left the home. Now here you are. Talk a little bit about your path to to LAPD.

SPEAKER_02 10:12

When we're kids, right? Going back to where we can't go outside in the front yard. We always gotta be in the backyard, depending if we're at my house or my grandparents' house. So what do we do? You know, back in the 70s, it's like, you know, I'm an old, old head, as they say. So I'm sitting there watching Emergency in Adam 12, man. So I got my choices. Do I want do I want to be uh Malloy or do I want to wait, I want to be the guy from Emergency calling the rampart and telling them, you know, telling me the minister 55cc or whatever case whatever I had that episode. So I really liked the idea of riding around the black and white with LAPD, and that's kind of how it grew. I was like, hey, I want to do that kind of stuff and meet different people and handle problems and protect uh the weak and things of that nature. My family wasn't behind that, my parents weren't behind that because, you know, living in Los Angeles, uh, you know, just touch on that, it's like you saw LAPD going back to what like Marcovellia said, right? You either rule by force, fear, or love. And uh I tell you right now, L LAPD back in the 80s, and you know, at the height of the crack epidemics and stuff, they rule by fear, man. We saw it firsthand. We my parents took off during white flight because we were light-skinned, and they took off with the white folks from Inglewood. We moved out to Orange County. We're like 9% blacks back in 1978. Yeah. But yeah, it's just it's just seeing, I mean, I really, it's just seeing that dog on TV show, and that kind of got me going towards law enforcement. Both my parents are really bureaucrats. You know, my dad worked for the department of, you know, worked different federal jobs. My mom got her master's degree. So they're both highly educated. And she was a nurse, and then she went to a nurse administrator for LA County. I think she ended up working for a cancer program or anti-smoking campaigns and stuff like that. It always worked for the government, and hence, you know, here I am, here I come along, and I'm working for the government eventually.

SPEAKER_00 12:14

So then were they concerned you were gonna get harmed in the LAPD? Were they concerned because all of the the kind of some of the stigma that was happening and you becoming a part of that? What were they worried about?

SPEAKER_02 12:24

I think like I said, we come, we didn't really discuss things prior to my brother getting into you know rehab. Because once my brother got into rehab, we were required to go to family therapy for him. So a lot of stuff came out during that family therapy. So we don't we discussed things better after the therapy, but they didn't my parents and I didn't discuss much before that. So they didn't stop me from being a cop, they didn't, they didn't discourage me from being a cop, but I think they wanted that for me. Yeah. And you know, just by their actions, by their speech, by their mannerisms, they didn't want it when they didn't want that for me. And I think they were concerned, yeah, it's a vi it's what you know, one of the most violent cities in America. LAPD has a bad reputation, you know. They were just kind of concerned.

SPEAKER_00 13:09

I hear that. And I have to ask at least one question, you know, being the therapist, when you all went to family therapy, what was the most challenging part of that for you? And did anything good you feel come out of it?

SPEAKER_02 13:25

The challenging part was, you know, we till that time, so we're talking like I think my brother was late 20s, maybe early 20s. So I think I was still like a teen, 17, 18. And we are like a quiet family. We don't put our business out in front of people. So that sit there with a therapist to try to get us to talk, that was really difficult. Dad's just sitting there being, but he had a toxic clearance too. And I think he was worried about, well, what's gonna, is this gonna affect my job? Like, is this gonna affect my income? Speaking to therapists and things of that nature. So, you know, that was the stigma surrounding therapy at the time. Eventually, the therapist said, What happened? The dynamics in the family changed. My brother got into drugs, selling drugs, and his life was in that, it was in that path. Then all the pressure came onto me, and the therapist says, then I became the oldest brother. And I had to take on all that pressure that he was supposed to take on. And so that's what we that's kind of what I took away from it. And that's probably why there was friction between me and my folks, because I got this expectation I was never intended to get.

SPEAKER_00 14:37

Was there anything that you felt was good that came out of the out of the family therapy?

SPEAKER_02 14:43

Yeah, well, we finally started saying, I love you, love you to each other. My parents never said that they loved us. We were never taught to show that, never taught to show that emotion. My mom wouldn't even tell us they loved us, you know, I love them. So we kind of opened up and pressed those feelings like, hey, I love you, I love you too. And so it took 16, 17 years for that to happen.

SPEAKER_00 15:04

Wow, wow. So how did that how did that impact you, them being able to express that actually to you in words?

SPEAKER_02 15:10

It was nice. It was uh kind of like a uh weight was lifted off of me and the family as well, because you can actually show some emotion. That helped later on in life because my brother had a daughter, I had daughters. I don't my brother and I don't raise our kids in that, you know, or that how we were growing up. And so we tell our kids we love them, we're proud of them. My parents never told us they were proud of us. So, and then I had to teach my parents like, hey, when you get off the phone with the girls, I need you to tell them you love them. Yeah. Because one, they're they're little girls, and now you should know better. Tell our kids we love them. So I need you to tell them that you love because you do, don't you? Yes. Okay, well then they need to hear that from you, trying to reinforce that.

SPEAKER_00 15:55

Yeah, and that's amazing that you're obviously were able to implement a completely different parenting style than what you received growing up, because a lot of times you see people and and they will repeat the pattern in terms of how they grew up, what they experienced, what happened, hear it a lot. You become your parents for you and your wife to be able to change that, change that narrative and be able to provide that type of love for your children. And I know you have the love you have for your children because obviously I was around you and I would hear you talk about them and express your love for them and show pictures of them. You'd always be really proud of them. So I just want to say that's amazing work that you've done yourself as a person.

SPEAKER_02 16:40

You know, I appreciate it. And you know, my wife didn't come from that background, but I did. My parents, you know, my parents and my grandparents, you know, they'd beat us, right? So if you got out of line, you said something wrong, you threw your, you know, you're two or three years old, you're throwing your pajamas around the bathroom and it lands in the toilet, you know, you'll get a beaty, uh, stepping out of line. And so, you know, I always grew up like, hey, I wonder if I wonder if you if you treat a child positively, tell your children you love them, you don't beat them. Well, they uh excel, uh excel in school, excel in life, excel in friendships, and it's come to find out they do.

SPEAKER_01 17:15

Yeah. Yeah, I didn't get none of this. And I wasn't a great student. And then I'm thinking back, like, hell man, if my parents will at least treat me with some decency, you know what I mean? I got imprisoned or son.

SPEAKER_00 17:31

Well, I think I think you still turned out pretty, pretty good, man. I think you still turned out pretty good. So I want to ask, prior to getting to camp, talk a little bit about, kind of summarize, because I know there there might be a lot, your work from being an officer to becoming a detective, maybe what units you worked in, and then how you got to camp.

SPEAKER_02 17:52

So I, you know, I I get on the police department, and then once you once you finish the academy, you gotta do probation. And any probation is like a year or total. I worked at uh Harbor Division, or that's where I was a boot. We call we call it probationers' boots. So I was a boot in Harbor Division, really busy at the time. Usually everyone thinks Harbor is like a sleep, sleepy hollow. We're leading the city in in homicides that year in '98. And believe, you know, more than Rampart Division, more than Watts, more than uh South Central, but we had a gang turf war going on. So that kind of got thrown into the fire there. Once you finished probation, I went over to I got wheeled, we call again wheeled off probation. I got pro sent to Pacific Division, work patrol there, and then I went transit division and uh just put the patrol there. Once we find out where I was about, we're about to lose the contract with NTA, right? We had a contract with NTA. I didn't want to go back to patrol again because I've already been there, done that, and and things are starting to get hectic in patrol. I tell you, I'll tell you this story. My my my first first training officer, I won't say his name, but this dude had a policeman badge. This dude came on in 1968. His training officer came on in the 40s. Oh, wow. Yeah, so he's old school. He was an old school, old Crouchy MFer. He later made my wife hell that first year. Yeah, he told me. He goes, hey man, nice guy though. I mean, nice guy, he'll make my life hell, but nice guy. He set me up with my for a comp. And he told these things to a young man that he had he didn't need to do that, but he he did take the time to do that. So he told me, he goes, Hey, you better get out of patrol within five years, or you're one, you're gonna end up dead, or your career's over. Don't be like me. Don't be a guy that's working, you know, 25 years in patrol. Because once if you stay in patrol too long, the command staff will think you're a failure and your current your career would be over. So I was at that five-year mark. So I go, man, let me let me see what's what other jobs are out there. Well, I'm about to lose this job at MTA. That was a good job. I said, let me, and I see something for smart MEU. I I went in for the interview for that. It was crazy. Three ladies were on my interview. One was the like the OI officer in charge. She was the D3, the D2, uh D meaning detective two. She was a lady. And then I had a DMH supervisor sitting on my oral board. And I'm like, wow. That this is not this is different, right?

SPEAKER_00 20:32

So now, was that what you expected it to be when you got into smart?

SPEAKER_02 20:35

I know they deal uh dealt with a lot, like people who suffer from a mental illness, a lot of suicide jumpers and block call-outs, barricade people that are taking people hostage, right? They're or they just want to kill themselves in the home. They're suicidal. What worked for me, right? What worked for me there is because I had a background in sales. Believe it or not, I had a back, I was a liquor distributor, sales manager. And so I I kind of knew, okay, I know how to listen, be active listener. And if you want people to like you, let people talk about themselves. And you know, that's for a hint for all you people out there that are single and you're looking for dates. Let the let the person you're interested in talk about themselves. Man, you you're gonna be getting that phone number, dog.

SPEAKER_00 21:17

Yes. So not not only do you have techniques for active listening, but also for the dating world.

SPEAKER_02 21:24

Dating, uh, you negotiating your car, all kinds. I I need to write a book or something.

SPEAKER_00 21:29

But no, you're right. You're right. The power of active listening, it's huge. Probably the number one skill that people lack that they need.

SPEAKER_02 21:36

Yeah, exactly. So I had that going for me. So that kind of got me like got me in the foot of the door. I have a sister in law that suffers from a mental illness. My in-laws told them what I was gonna get into, so they brought me to NAMI, like the NAMI conferences at college uh fun. Was it Sri Las College? I believe that. Yeah, so Sri Let's College functions, and lo and behold, MEU's there. I just oraled, I just got hired by MEU. And they're there at the conference, and they're like, oh my God, this guy who we just hired is at this conference. Like, I think we made the right choice. And they were so proud. They were so proud to look on their faces. This guy is already here. This guy, you know, he's bought in, you know, and he cares. And so that little background helped me, but then I had to go through a crap load of training. Back then, you're talking about crisis intervention, CIT school. They sent me to, and that changed over time. So 40-hour week schools on that, schools on suicidal people in non-clinical situations, uh suicide assessment. I mean, it's all kind of training, SWAT negotiation school, FBI negotiation negotiation school. A lot of uh training that I went to before I got the cat.

SPEAKER_00 22:51

I just want to go back real quick for people that don't know, because you brought up NAMI, and I'm glad that you did. It's an extremely important organization. So NAMI stands for the National Alliance on Mental Illness. It's an amazing organization. What it provides is mental health support, education, and advocacy for those that are affected by mental health illness and have loved ones that have a mental health illness. Thank you for your transparency and vulnerability. I don't want to go anywhere that's uncomfortable for you, but are you to share briefly, like with what she struggled with?

SPEAKER_02 23:25

It's my sister-in-law, one of my wife's older sisters, she suffers from paranoid schizophrenia. When I was dating my wife and before we got married, we didn't know her diagnosis. So she, I think she got, you know, there's issues that kept rising at work. And then eventually she had an episode. I think she got hospitalized. They did an evaluation and they determined she suffered from paranoid schizophrenia. Yeah, there was times, man, we would be at family functions. I'm already on smart. She would have an episode or have I'm filling out an application, and we're transporting her to uh college hospital in Cerritos. Yeah, and I'm calling my work, like, hey, I'm off duty. My sister law had an episode. We'll let you guys know what's going on. So I'm calling the watch commander, like, okay, no problem. You know, hey, take the rest of the day off, and uh, we understand. And and so yeah, it's so which was kind of tough because I had to deal with that at work and then deal with situations at home. Personal family. Yeah, personal life. So and then they'll they're calling me for advice every now and then, I think, until my wife kind of had to step up, like, hey, this guy, don't call Garrett if you if unless it's like very necessary, because I don't want him to deal with this all the time. So I think she had to be a buffer. I don't know that happened, but I guarantee you that I wish.

SPEAKER_00 24:45

Wow. Yeah, so that must have taken a huge toll, I imagine, on the family, and you know, your wife and yourself as well, and others involved and loved ones. How is she doing now? Curiosity.

SPEAKER_02 24:57

Um, she she's doing okay. She had an episode not too long ago, and she was hospitalized. And I think now she's transitioning back to uh stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 25:08

Yeah, I'm sorry to hear that. That's tough. I want to thank you for sharing it because bringing some light to this, mental health affects everybody. You know, mental health does not discriminate, it doesn't discriminate against race, against who you are, how who you're employed by, you know, anything. I mean, mental health does not discriminate. It impacts everybody, even at times, people that you you may think don't face these types of things. And I'm glad that you're sharing this and you're being real because I don't think a lot of people get to hear these types of stories from somebody that's been in law enforcement. Do you know what I mean? And and somebody who's been in that, you know, they just have this one view of you in their mind, but they don't see what's behind and and underneath that badge. And I think it's it's a great reflection of you as a human being.

SPEAKER_02 26:00

Well, I agree. Look, I'll tell you this much. You might get some people that scoff at me, right? Because uh what I'm about to say, they always say, like, hey, LA PD SWAT's the tip of the spear, right? You're talking like that's your one percenter, and not everyone can be LAPD SWAT, 10,000 people in the department, right? That's your tip of the spear kind of people. I gotta say the same thing for the mental evaluation unit. They are the tip of the spear because not everyone who's a police officer can handle the day in, the day out, the grind, and the patience and the professionalism to assist someone who suffers from a mental illness and had the no-withal to understand that this person who's having a bad day, who can't comprehend what you're saying, what someone else is saying, between your voice and the voices in their head, maybe they just don't have they can't do that. And I used to say it all the time. I go, Well, you think L LAPD Schwab special are so specialized and so unique. Well, MEU's the same way, because not everyone, not every cop can come in here and you will fail quick. If you think you're gonna come to MEU to get away from patrol.

SPEAKER_00 27:17

Yeah, it takes a special person, special people to be able to be part of the mental evaluation unit. And like you said, to have the the balance of authority and the authority that you need as a detective, as an officer, but also the balance of compassion and empathy and all of those things for people that are struggling with mental health illness and people that straight, they they want to take their lives. They want to end their, they want to end their life and to be able to prevent that from happening.

SPEAKER_02 27:48

And it's you know, and you'll see it, you'll see it when we train, because I was a one of the lead trainers for a smart when I was at Smart. I would get the new clinicians, I would get the new officers, and they would assign them at first. I was like one of the very few guys that did the training. We were a very small unit when we first started. I think it was only nine of us.

unknown 28:07

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 28:07

Now there's like now there's probably like what in the hundreds, I think, or and you'll see it like even with the young, you know, psych psychiatric students or psychology students, they get they start taking the personal when someone who's living on the street and who doesn't have an ounce, they don't have anything. Person who's sick, who's having a crisis, lashes out at the youngest person in the group, the student. So they single that student out, say something about their shoes, say something about their hair, you know, you know, especially female to female, and they get really upset and they come, and that student might lash back. And then, you know, we got I gotta pull that student aside and they go, hey man, take a minute. Think about this. They got nothing. They have absolutely nothing. They don't even have a sharpened cart of stuff they they can haul around. Right. And the only weapon they have is that voice, is that tongue. That's the only weapon they got. And they gotta use that doggone thing 24 hours a day, seven days a week on the street, because they ain't they ain't nothing but a bunch of predators out there. So take that into account, man. Don't take this stuff personal. Yeah. And they go, oh, you know what? You're right. You know, that's a good, that's a good way to look at it and appreciate it. And and I say, Yeah, man, it takes time. It takes time to learn that. But once you realize it, it's like, hey, don't take this stuff personal, man. There's sick.

SPEAKER_00 29:26

It does. It does. Oh, I I agree. Even myself as a clinician, when I was there, you know, we think automatically as clinicians, we're just gonna like slip right in, like, oh, I'll know how to deal with everything, you know, I'll know how to how to be able to handle this and deal with the situations. And and no, there was a lot of the time when I was first there, I was learning from all of the officers and how to deal with a lot of this population. You know what I mean? And that's and that's the reality, that's the truth. These are people that are the intensity is so high with the mental health illness, and their behaviors are so aggress aggressive at times. You think it, it can happen of what you encounter and what you deal with. And this isn't like therapists sitting in a private practice. This is a lot different, and there's a lot more things to learn, you know, in terms of of what's necessary and the tools that you need. Yeah, I learned a lot from all.

SPEAKER_02 30:24

I know I appreciate it. I know I learned a lot from you guys. Trust me, I learned a lot from you guys. I had so many partners over the I was with MU for I think 18 years. Yeah. So I was with that with that unit for a long time. I went through a lot of different, you know, psych psychologist, marriage family therapists part as partners, nurses, right? Psych nurses, psych techs. So you I learned a lot from every partner I work with, or I try to, right? Because I'm you're never too old to learn. Yeah. And so it was a good experience.

SPEAKER_00 30:53

Let me let me ask, in terms of with the work on camp, smart, are there moments from your experience in crisis response that stay with you? Are there ones that still stick out in your mind or you think about? Did you compartmentalize it?

SPEAKER_02 31:08

No, there's definitely, and I'll tell you, like I said, 18 years of this, the unit, a specialized unit within SMART. And uh, we're at the at the central station for several years. I think we're there for, I think I was there for four years. I started that unit. I was there for four years, and we would handle calls from, you know, usually within central, there's so many uh divisions like central division, Newton's there, Rampart, uh Northeast. And so a lot of times, if a patrol officer had a uh subject in custody, then transport that person to Central Station and have me and my partner evaluate them. So you're talking like when a normal role vean unit at Smart maybe handles two, one to two calls a day, maybe three, because of you know, a lot of charting, right? You know that a lot of charting on your guys in. And I don't want to burn out your partner, right? You don't want to be that officer that burns out your partner. But dude, that at that unit at Central where you're handling multiple calls from other eight from other divisions, you know, you're talking eight calls a day, dude. Like quadruple quadruple the amount of people coming into central and you're burning out, man. Your your burnout is really quick. My burnout came after all those years, and it took its toll, man. And seeing all these trauma, people you're breaking down doors because you're talking to this person who's suicidal. You get a phone call that's suicidal, you're getting there, a troll is talking to him. You arrive and you're like, hey, well, we haven't talked to this guy in 10 minutes. So we didn't mean you haven't talked to him in 10 minutes. Well, he was talking to us for a while there. He started getting, it seemed like he was getting tired, you know, on the other side of the door, and he hasn't talked to us in like 10 minutes. I go, did he threaten to kill himself? He goes, Yeah, they get they have a plan. He said, No, he didn't have a plan. I go, dude, kick the damn door in. He probably tried to he's probably trying to kill himself or he made an attempt. And sure enough, they kicked the door in, and this dude, yeah, he he swallowed a bunch of pills 10 minutes ago, 15 minutes ago, and they're trying to kick in. So it's like, it's and you know, you had you had people that one person they I don't know, I'm not trying to get too graphic. I'm like, do you I'm not gonna say names, but do you want me to tell like is it okay to sell some stories? Yeah, yeah, go ahead. So, you know, we had one lady who she ended up, she completed suicide, but she sawed her head off. She got she saw her, she sawed her head off to the point where she was bled out, that's where she died. She got to the spine and she just couldn't cut, she bled out before she tried to cut through the the bone.

SPEAKER_00 33:52

Oh and terrible.

SPEAKER_02 33:54

Yeah, horrible stuff. And towards the end there, let me tell you something, and it probably still is today. My trauma bucket is overflowing. It's hard. There's certain things I just won't discuss, there's certain things I can't discuss. You know, for a while there, I've I was probably drinking every day, man. I would think I was coming home. I wouldn't drink, I wouldn't drink before work, I wouldn't drink at work, but I was coming home. Um me and Crown Royal were a best of friends, man. Right. I was I was drinking Crown Royal. I think I was going through a 1.75 liter probably either a week or every two weeks. Yeah. And I was just drowning myself. I, you know, I I wasn't realizing what I was doing, but I was drowning myself towards the end there. Spoo's pills. And you know, looking back on it, it's like, yeah, it's because of the trauma I had. It's all the trauma that I experienced, and not taking that out when I get home, not taking that on my family, not taking that out on my kids, it was just taking its toll, man. And I think I retire at the at the right time.

SPEAKER_00 35:00

Yeah. So what what if anything, and I know, like you're talking about, retirement was was a big part of of probably your own healing journey in terms of, like you said, all of the the trauma that you experienced from from this line of work. And you know, I I remember experiencing and seeing a lot of things on Smart 2 when we responded to calls and completed suicides, and you know, you see some awful things, and there's some things that definitely stay in my mind as well, too. What did you or what have you done now for because the first thing I said when I saw you, people can't see you right now, right? But I saw you and I'm like, man, you look good. You know, when I when I saw you on the on the video from the Zoom here, what have you done for your own healing journey from all of that?

SPEAKER_02 35:47

You know, one I I don't drink every day, right? Now I might drink when I go out, right? I make sure, hey, I'm not check myself. But obviously there's addiction in the family, right? I there's my butter wasn't or is an addict. I got grandparents and uncles that are addicts. I'm assuming I have that trait in me too. So I'm able to at least recognize it eventually. You know, it took took me some time. I recognized it, like I gotta stop doing that. And I did, and I stopped drinking, stopped slamming pills with the drinks, pain pills, that's what you know, that's what I was on. Yeah. And so, and then spend time more with my kids. Like I didn't get the I I got two kids, one's in college, so I didn't get to spend a lot of time with the one that's in college, but I now have an opportunity to spend time with, we call her the baby, right? The baby of the family, and she's in high school. So I I just spend as much time as I can with her, right? I'll drive her to school, I I go to all of her events, and you know, she's on certain teams. And I just I was always Catholic, I always attended church, but I I I spend more time doing events at church with the family. I'm trying to heal on my own, using what I learned at, you know, working with all you guys, like, you know, your all the therapists I work with is trying to learn, you know, take what I learned from you guys and try to self-heal. And it seems to be working, you know, I'm not perfect, but I don't have those demons were not affecting me as much as those demons affected me in my career.

SPEAKER_00 37:18

Yeah. Talk about what you're doing now, you know, the work that you've been into since retiring from the LA LAPD.

SPEAKER_02 37:25

So, you know, I was I always had like some side hustle job, right? When I I was at MEU and Smart Camp, I went and got my master's degree, right? I got a master's degree in uh homeland security, and I was teaching college for like seven years part-time. I was a I was an adjunct professor for seven years. So I did that on the side, and then when I I didn't want to, you know, I'm from that old school mindset. Like, I'm not gonna just retire because my wife won't let me. My wife says, Yeah, I need you to retire from the police department, but you're damn sure gonna be bringing in some money on top of that, you know, that pension. So I was like, well, thanks a lot, boss, you know. So Right.

SPEAKER_00 38:06

So Yes, the loves are the bosses for sure.

SPEAKER_02 38:10

And I I you know, I I that's how I grew up. My mom was the boss in the house, and my wife's the boss in the house. So happier wife, happier life. And trust me in that. So I I didn't retire until I had a job to go to. So I I knew I can't do this anymore. I can't do this job anymore. 18 years of working in crisis, response is taking its toll. And if I continue down this path, man, my quality of life is gonna be trash. I and I do I know I'm doing the Lord's work and I'm there to help these people, but like, hey, God, man, give me, God, give me a break, man. I I'm tapping out. So I need to tap out. And this hopefully you'll you'll allow me to tap out. So I apply for different different jobs, and I I got hired by a community college that you would think, everyone thinks, you know, they always call me professor because I used to teach college, but I'm not teaching. I'm a campus safety coordinator at a local college, and so I'm part of that unit. Uh for the last five years I've been doing that, and I'm doing that in Orange County. So I don't have 90-mile commute back and forth from work anymore. I only I got your team, 13 miles, and dude.

SPEAKER_00 39:26

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Well, that sounds like a great, a great fit for you, and it's been it's been well. You've been enjoying it.

SPEAKER_02 39:34

Yeah, it's good. You know, no more, no more free weight therapy, bro. I got rid of that free weight therapy, man. Yeah, you know, I know therapy's good for you, but not their freeway therapy. That's a that's a monster.

SPEAKER_00 39:43

Yeah, no, long commutes like that, they they impact you for sure. I I had to do that as well before, and yeah, they're rough. It takes a route takes a toll.

SPEAKER_02 39:52

So I still work, you know, I still work nights, you know. I I like I said, I spend as much time as I can with my kids and my wife and the dogs. Got two German shepherds at home, and and I exercise, right? And cut back on all that drinking, and so it's it's it's going well.

SPEAKER_00 40:09

Excellent. I'm really happy to hear that, man. Really happy. Yeah, you deserve that. You deserve that. Two more questions, and then I want to ask you another question. If somebody is in a dark place right now, they're in a dark place, say they're having their own, whether it's mental health related, whether it's not mental health related, maybe they're having thoughts of not wanting to be here, maybe they are having thoughts of taking their own life, whatever it is. What would you what would you want to say to them?

SPEAKER_02 40:40

Well, you know, all these years, I still get those calls, right? I still get those calls from at school. So we just have one this week. Yeah. I just I want to listen, right? I want the first thing I want to do is listen. What's troubling you? Why are we going to use and I say we, because I'm now with you. I'm I'm sitting here with you. I'm on the phone with you. It's a we now. I'm gonna take ownership of this as much as you're taking ownership of this. So I'm responsible for you. That's and I that can't be turned off. I don't know why I can't turn that off. I can't turn that off.

SPEAKER_01 41:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:15

I just I just want to listen. I want to see, let their process it, right? Because we all know when you're in when you're in crisis, your rationale is low. And it takes time for that person to realize what's really going on is when that rationale can come down, or that rationale can can stay level, but that emotion can come down to where rationale and emotion are equal. And that's that's what I want. So I just want to wait for that moment to happen so this person can make a better choice. Not saying it's the right choice, it's a better choice. So they're in crisis, they want to kill themselves, they don't see an out, but like, okay, well, I know you're you're trying to make, you're trying to use a permanent solution for a temporary problem. But they don't they don't see that yet, right? They're they're in a crisis, they don't see that yet, you know, dealing in the in the pain and the suffering, and they don't realize the collateral, right? The collaterals meaning their loved ones, their spouses, their children, their coworkers, they don't realize that stuff. So they don't they don't see how them killing themselves is going to affect, you know, affect their lives, right? And I used to tell that to people uh when I was dealing with uh jumpers and dealing with people barricading residents and and apartment buildings and hotel rooms. And I would say, Do you have children? They go, Yeah, you know, I uh you know this takes time to get to that point. But you have children, yeah, I have children. They go, okay, well, do you realize, you know, eventually I would say, do you realize that once you kill yourself, your children are eight times more likely to kill themselves? And they go, No, I didn't know that. And then that you know, that kind of that was the hook, right? That that was usually the hook to get them to come out and and get them to go get help.

SPEAKER_00 43:08

Um, and I'm I'm giving you a long answer to your question. No, it's an amazing answer. It's a great answer. It's it's listen, right? I all I want to do is listen.

SPEAKER_02 43:18

What brought you here today? What what is what's causing you to want to end your life? And I just want to listen, see, and see what happened, what brought you here.

SPEAKER_00 43:28

Yeah. Yeah, and I like how you take it from being an individual experience to now a I think I would want to frame it as a collective experience, right? So letting them know that you're you're not alone now, right? Like you're saying, like we're we're in this together. The most important thing, like you're saying, is that being able to listen to them to try to understand where they are, to try to understand why they're feeling this way, to try. To understand why they're thinking about this, to hear their voice, to give them that place to have a voice, like you said, and hopefully their emotions will be able to come to more of a baseline so they can, like you said, start thinking from a little bit more of a place of more rational thinking, more logical thinking, and think about the bigger picture. This is something that once I do, my life is no longer gone. And this isn't just about me. How is this going to affect other people that I love and that I care about?

SPEAKER_02 44:40

Yeah, because they're they're not there yet.

SPEAKER_00 44:42

Yeah, and there's gonna be collateral damage from this as well, too. So I really, really liked the way that you framed all of framed all of that. And so I I want to go into, I believe, and if you could, you know, maybe give a little bit of a sneak, sneak peek here, but you're in the process of writing a book right now, correct?

SPEAKER_02 45:03

Yeah, I just completed the book. I just finished it after multiple edits and I edited it myself. I'm sure there's gonna be more coming. There is a book, it's called Time Solves All Problems, a peak or a look into LAPD's elite crisis response unit. Because I don't think a lot of people know about it. And just looking at it from my point of view, from my perspective on how I got there, my journey, the trauma, you know, the this the him and then the humanity side. Because when people think of the police, they don't think of humanity, they don't think they just think of people ruling by force, by fear. And that's just in that unit, it won't work. In that unit, we kind of mesh, you know, Department of Mental Health and LAPD, we mesh. I become the LAPD guys become more like Department of Mental Health and the Department of Mental Health people become more like LAPD. So it's it's it's it's it's really strange. And I would just love to share those stories and backgrounds and to it's kind of like a ride-along. It's like reading a ride-along. Yeah. And you you're and you're taking that journey with me, and over the 18 or yeah, 18 years I worked there. I'm in the process of trying to get a an agent to get it published, like a publishing agent. So that is, I'm at infancy stages of this of this process.

SPEAKER_00 46:26

Well, I I think that's amazing. So it's kind of kind of similar to what you know, some of the things we we kind of brushed on today, but obviously a book would be much more detailed. And I agree, I think one, I'm really excited, and I think it's amazing that you're doing that because I agree 100% with what you're saying. People think of LAPD and they just think of right, these officers and batons and guns and helmet, you know, whatever. But they don't realize that there's also all of these other units within LAPD with officers and with detectives that are doing like really, really good work. And obviously, for this, for there's a very, very large mental health population in the city of Los Angeles, and there needs to be a lot of people to work on that, right? And to provide a service for that.

SPEAKER_02 47:19

Yeah, I I tell people, I tell people all the time when I went when I worked at a unit, when you and I worked at a unit, and they would make the system in the mental health system in California and Los Angeles is not, I'm not saying it's perfect, right? It's not perfect. And we'll tell people that. But I also would tell them like, as bad as you think this is, this is the best the United States has to offer. No one in the United States has a better mental health system than California. You're not going to get this anywhere else. So imagine that. So if you're having a hard time here, imagine, you know, because we get a lot of transplants in California. We got a lot of people that came from the south, from Midwest and Back East, and like even back east, they don't get they don't get this mental health treatment that we have. The system out here is way better than everywhere else in the United Nation.

SPEAKER_00 48:08

And that's why a lot of them come here as well, too, because they know that they're gonna get the best best mental health services here. So we're getting ready in terms of coming on time. I have a couple questions. I always ask to everybody on the show at the end. Okay. You know, just give a quick one or two sentence response for each question. You ready?

SPEAKER_01 48:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:32

All right. First question. If someone listening feels powerless right now, what would you say to them? Feels powerlessness about like their life, their circumstances, those types of things. What what would you say to them?

SPEAKER_02 48:46

I I wouldn't, I'm not gonna sit there and give you the textbook textbook answer, right? You know, oh, we need to go seek therapy, you need to go find a professional to speak to. Yeah, I'm not gonna do that. I'm gonna say, hey, can you do you feel comfortable enough to find a friend you can talk to, someone that you care that that cares for you, you care for them, and just you know, talk to them like, hey, I'm having this issue, I'm having this problem. Do you have a minute? Can I can I run something by you? It's you know, just it's a casual conversation. And uh, and that's how that's how it starts. You know, that's that's that's how your journey, that's how the healing, that's how things are gonna get better, is just talking to someone, and you'll find out, you know, people they want to listen to you, they want they they care for you, right? The person that you're gonna fight talk to, they care for you, and they're gonna listen, and and hopefully that's gonna help you.

SPEAKER_00 49:37

Nice.

SPEAKER_01 49:38

Just yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:39

All right. Okay, next question. What's one thing that an everyday person can do to make an impact in the community?

SPEAKER_02 49:50

I I don't know about you, man, but uh for some reason, man, this society and community, uh, you know, if you want to put it that way, it just seems so divided, you know, back away from all that toxic stuff on TV or national media or private, you know, Fox News and CNN and MSNBC and just back away from all this toxic stuff and get out there because I let me tell you something. Not everyone, not everyone hates each other. They're making sound like everyone hates each other. Like, no, they don't. It really don't hate each other. We don't hate each other.

unknown 50:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:25

Just just take the moment to realize that. Don't believe, like, you know, like public enemy said back in the day, don't believe the height. You know what I mean? Yeah, don't believe that crap.

SPEAKER_00 50:35

Nice. I love the public enemy quote. All right, who did you become as a person because some of the pain that you live through?

SPEAKER_02 50:45

I'm hoping I I'm hoping I became the person, and I guess I'll find out one of these days, that the Lord wanted me to become. You know, I I don't I I'm gonna be honest for it, man. I've always been this guy that people for some reason they approach me and they just talk to me about their problems. I don't know what it is about me. I don't know what's written on my forehead or the back of my head that says, come and talk to me. Come and tell me all your problems, all your worries, and we're going to work this out. And I'm gonna, and if I can't work this out, or if I can't help you, we're gonna find someone that will help you. The Lord's just put me, He still does it, He still puts me in these positions, and I'm just like, I'm like, Lord, please come on. Yeah, well, when am I gonna be done with this? And he goes, You ain't done, son. Uh-huh. You ain't done. Nice. So I I'm still gonna be that guy, I think, and I've still got to be that person that all this trauma was there for a reason. And I think on this, I don't, I'm is not my goal to seek out people and help them. It's this they come to me and I in all this trauma, I can I can recognize their trauma, right? I'll having all that trauma, I can recognize their trauma. I can recognize trauma from my family members, you know, strangers. And I and I'm not gonna say nothing to them because I'm not a therapist, but I'm like, but I will knowing what I see, that's how I'm gonna help them. Like, let's let's let's let's go this direction. Let's talk about this. You know, I know where to take uh where to lead that that uh that pathway. Well, I'm gonna lead you down there, you're gonna find out how how to do this yourself. But I know knowing I can recognize your trauma and and let's and I'm gonna use that to help you.

SPEAKER_00 52:38

Nice. Excellent. Great response. All right, last question. What do you want your legacy to be? Not so much your career, but your soul's work. What do you want your legacy to be?

SPEAKER_02 52:53

Oh, I would, you know, here's the here's the bad thing about uh, you know, you say work. A lot of people who have, especially police officers, right? They always say, Well, I'm a cop, simple cop, all this cop stuff. I'm a cop, and I go, man, you know, cop, I was just that was just a job, bro. You know what I mean? That's that's that's a that is an asterisk in my life. That's a footnote in my life. And I was always that I was always that kind of person. I I want to be known to be a you know a husband, a father, father first and foremost. I want my kids, you know, I want my kids to speak fondly of me, hopefully. You know, I was a son, I was a brother, I was a friend, you know, I was a co-worker. You know, that's what I want. That's what I want people to remember me by. Hopefully the book, you know, if if that book as every ever gets published, I hope people will see that too.

SPEAKER_00 53:44

Yeah. I think they will. I think they will. Uh, you know, I'm I'm rooting for it for you. That's for sure. 100%. All right. Any any last words before we before we wrap up? Any last words, last thoughts?

SPEAKER_02 54:01

I don't know, man. Be kind to each other. I have that that I it's it's easier said than done, but just be kind to each other. Don't don't take all this, you know, they're feeding you hatred, man. They're feeding you all this hatred and divisiveness, and that's not this is that's not what's going on here, man. They people don't hate you. They don't. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:19

Nice. All right. Well, once again, I want to thank you, you know, for for being here, for talking, for taking your time. I know you're busy. You got a busy schedule, a lot going on, work, family, everything else on your plate. So thank you, and thank you everybody for listening. And we hope to see you next time on Finding Your Voice.