Part 2 The Reality of Missing & Murdered Indigenous Women: Stolen Voices

In Part 2 of this deeply moving two-part conversation, and return to continue sharing the heart behind their work with and the ongoing movement surrounding Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women  (MMIW).

Together, we explore the spiritual foundation of their advocacy and the sacred responsibility they carry as they support families impacted by unimaginable grief and loss. Teyana and Norm speak openly about the emotional weight of this work, the importance of ceremony, and how prayer, community, and connection to the land guide everything they do.

In this episode, listeners will hear about the meaning behind the Red Teepee, prayer runs, mountain climbs, and the powerful healing spaces they create for families to share their stories and honor loved ones who have been taken too soon. They also reflect on resilience, generational healing, Indigenous identity, and the importance of transforming grief into action while continuing to fight for visibility, accountability, and justice.

This conversation is not only about advocacy, it is about humanity, remembrance, healing, and hope. It is a powerful reminder that healing happens in community, that stories matter, and that every voice has the power to create change.

Way of the Sacred Mountain 

You Tube Video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGydeK4RmMw&t=5s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdzO_oVT7v0

https://wayofthesacredmountain.org/

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

Hello, I'm Jason Carrasco, and welcome to Finding Your Voice. I'm a licensed marriage family and child therapist and a lifelong student of human resilience. For years, I've sat with people in some of their hardest moments, moments that have challenged their identity, their spirit, and sometimes their will to keep going. One thing I've learned is that human beings can survive the unthinkable. And with support, a person's pain can become great purpose. This podcast is a home for stories about mental health, human rights, and the courage it takes to move through darkness and toward healing. In these episodes, you'll hear from survivors, clinicians, and everyday people who are brave enough to speak honestly and bold enough to use their voice. You deserve hope, you deserve healing, and you deserve to be heard. Welcome to Finding Your Voice. Let's get started. Alright, everybody, welcome to another episode of Finding Your Voice. My name is Jason Carrasco, licensed marriage family and child therapist, and I want to welcome you to the second episode of this two-part conversation with both Tiana and Norm from the nonprofit way of the Sacred Mountain. Hopefully, you were able to listen to the first episode in which Tiana and Norm did an amazing job in trying to simplify a lot of the topics about MMIW. But just briefly, I want to say once again to any new listeners, again, I encourage you to go back and listen to the first episode. But MMIW stands for Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women. And this has been a crisis that has impacted Indigenous communities for generations. So it refers to the disproportionately high rates of violence, disappearance, and lack of justice experienced by Native women, girls, and boys as well. And for families, what's really important is that this is not just, or these aren't just statistics. It's a lived reality that still doesn't receive the attention it deserves. And I'm really excited about this part of the interview because we're going to now hear about the amazing work that both Norm and Tayanna do with the organization. And I have caught them both in kind of a little bit of a break period here because they have been going already, they've been going all over the place to be a part of different ceremonies, to participate in different powwows, to do a lot of different things. Again, this is for MMIW, this is for awareness, this is for the community, for the people. And, you know, they do this with so much passion, but I'm excited about this because again, we're going to talk about all the great work that we're do they do. And that's what this episode is dedicated to. So to open up Tiana and Norm, where where were you before this work found you? Before the work of MMIW?

SPEAKER_00 3:11

I love that question. It really makes me like stop and contemplate, you know, that there was a before this work. It feels like this work has become so central to our lives that there wasn't a before. I guess that's how deep we've committed our lives to this work. But before this work, I feel like I was already carrying stories, like some were spoken. But many of the stories in the way that I was showing up were unspoken. And some of the things I was doing was really rooted in community. But I was just coming back from Standing Rock and still coming into awareness of what that really meant to be in community, in a way that I was evolving as someone that was deeply committed to protecting the water and coming back from like just two times out to Standing Rock being in that powerful fight for against Apple for to protect the water. And so once we all got home, my life continued to be very active in community, in direct actions, in you know, marching down Wilshire Boulevard, taking Hollywood Boulevard, sunset, and all of these things, and forming a very mixed inner tribal community there in LA. I think when I came onto the story of missing and murdered indigenous women in doing all that work, I just really realized that it was important to once you hear the stories and learn about what this even is, you're like, hey, wait a minute, you know. And for me, it started at uh City Hall in LA on September 17th, 2017, was the beginning of the change of my life, and the beginning of understanding that I had a uh deep and spiritual commitment, responsibility, and and even an obligation to learn about this more deeply. And then it and then shortly after Savannah went missing, and then she was found murdered, and we had a prayer vigil for her. And in the way that she was found, I had to really start to go inward in prayer in my mountain runs. But then shortly after that, Ashley Loring Heavy Runner went missing in Montana, and then shortly after that, Olivia Lone Bear went missing, and you know, leaving five children. And it got to the point where what I was going through felt so powerless that it was one of those big guttural cries out to creator at like three in the morning. Like, what can what can be done? What can I do? I don't, I don't even know. And I really had a very loud message from Creator, a literal calling, and I just committed to it. And so that's what got me into this prayer and into walking in the way that I was able to honor this prayer and learn more and more and more about it as it as we evolved and as more stories came out and we learned of more women. And on that day, I'd committed to almost a three-year prayer run with the sun, rising with the suns as your ancestors, and you will run to the top of the mountain as your ancestors, and you will offer prayers. And I was like, every day. I mean, you know, let's keep it real. I'm like, creator, every day, and they're like, Yeah, I was like, every day, and I was like, how long? And it was like, you dare ask how long? You know how long until you don't anymore, until it becomes clear that I'm taking you somewhere else. That's how long that began my journey into the prayer. So that's who I was before. And then I'll I'll let Norm come in with where he was at before.

SPEAKER_03 7:49

I'll try to make a long story short. You know, I think like so many of our urban relatives, you know, I was lost. You know, I was doing exactly what the colonizers wanted me to do. I was self-destructing drugs and alcohol, living in LA, being born and raised there, you know, away from my homelands. You know, I didn't find my red road till I was in the middle of a penitentiary San Quentin Yard, where there was an Aneepy there. That's where I first found where I belonged. And it was a beautiful thing. It taught me that life did matter and that that the that I was important and I mattered. You know, I started to work, I've been clean since 91. So I think that's about 30, some 34, 35 years, carpenter, and that was my life to build and not destroy. How I kind of learned about MMIW, you know, it's I first heard of it from in Canada, and then doing the research for me was that it was happening here everywhere in the United States, so-called United States. Me and a brother were just, you know, how can what can we do, right? How can we help? We were put here, I was told by an elder to to protect the village, to take care of each other, and to care for our women and our children and our elders and our men.

SPEAKER_04 9:05

Yeah, I just want to say to both of you, you know, how powerful it is to hear so often, you know, I think in this life or this time, this world, there there's people, they hear things that are going on, different injustices that are happening, different things that that take place, and you know, there's kind of like, oh wow, that's that's awful. And they go kind of go on with their life. Both of you, and how Tiana you described, and Norm how you describe, this sounds this was a calling, and and you were both called to do this. And I think one thing that I'm hearing as well, too, is I think that when we are called to do something, that we we not only have the opportunity to give and to sacrifice and to be a part of that, but we also have the opportunity to go on our own healing journey and our own growth in order to be able to do that as well. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 10:14

Yeah, I I definitely understand with every fiber in my being that initially when you hear about something this horrific and it's impacting you, you don't, you know, you don't whip out your hero's cape and come running. You literally ask permission, humble yourself. And even if because we're so human, even the parts of us that haven't evolved, that have that selfish, like little spirit in there that you really have to ask yourself, you're not coming in as any kind of savior. You realize that creator is going to fully reshape you and bring you into a place of healing. These families are going to have that impact on your life in a way that you never imagined. That time that was spent in the mountains for those three years was about literally creator attuning me to soften my heart, attune my ears, gentle my touch so that I was completely immersed in the land and the water and the plant relatives and the winged ones and the bears that I came across. And and I completely it became it got to a point where you understood that you were going to put this above anything and you were not going to drop the ball. You were not going to fail. It was so important. And and then the more you show up, the more creator shapes and changes you into a whole different being than you thought. If that makes any sense.

SPEAKER_03 12:10

Yeah. I I think I'd like to touch on that too, right? Because I I think we we are blessed to be able to talk with these families and and hear their story, you know, and it's it's a blessing that they trust us in that way. So for me, it was always once you know the truth, you you can't just do it for a minute. You know, doing nothing is not an option, right? It's it's it turned into a lifelong, you know. We we need Tiana and I want to see this to an end, and we're not going anywhere until we see it to an end.

SPEAKER_04 12:41

And I think you're you're talking about the shift from also passion to purpose, you know, with this work that took place for the both of you, is what I'm already hearing that you kind of you kind of touched upon.

SPEAKER_01 12:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:55

When did you first realize that your voice and and your work could create some change or could have have an impact?

SPEAKER_03 13:06

For me, it was the first time I held a mother's hand and I seen her smile. It just blew me away that I could bring something to give her joy. Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 13:34

That realization often it comes really quietly first, and then maybe it's when like someone tells you, I I feel the prayer. I I would have to say, especially in the gifting of the shawls and bandanas, for me, it's such an honor that I am the person that gets to offer this prayer. The the way that the prayer I feel it so strongly between everyone that we touch, it really lets you know that you that this is very real, and this prayer is getting stronger and stronger. And I think that's for me where where it is that change doesn't always look big at you know, at the beginning. And for us, it looks like you know, this connection and this awareness and this truth telling that happens over time. We just see that how our voices come together and become like really powerful because we start to see that your voice is not just your own, this call, you're not the only one being called. Now there's thousands of us, there's thousands of people awakening to this crisis. That the only thing we have to do is be true and stay committed and obligated to hold intention to what Creator has for us to do in this work. What is ours to hold and to carry is this prayer that the Creator has brought us into. And that is our true obligation.

SPEAKER_04 15:23

Yeah, the integrity that both of you hold in that. Will you will you briefly say, for those that are maybe hearing for the first time, we talked about gifting the Shaws, gifting the bandana, will you let the audience who isn't aware what the significance of that is?

SPEAKER_03 15:41

Well, even though there are thousands of us, I am shocked to this day in our travels, how many indigenous and non-indigenous people have no idea this is even happening. So the whole idea behind the shawls and bandanas is you know, we're we're trying to make eight billion. We we don't we don't want one person to not know what this is about. We want everyone to know, and we want to bring it to an end. So the shawl and madana was was created to uh as as a gift. It's never monetized. We screen them, we cut the fabric, we fold them. Tiana gives them out in her people's way uh of the four directions prayer, and it's beautiful. I've watched miracles happen when she's done it. I I don't think for those that don't know, I mean, how devastating this is. And if you can even imagine what these families are going through, you know, it's it's unfathomable. But if if we can bring some kind of joy, some kind of acknowledgement that you know that they feel unseen, they feel unheard, they feel unprotected, you know, that all these things, and and if we can just show some kind of comfort, it's it's a blessing.

SPEAKER_01 16:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:55

The shawls and bandanas are part of what we do wherever we go, we try and and gift them. Like I said, we're we're trying to make eight billion. So it's a little running joke with Tiana and I, but as we travel, I would rather we would rather gift them in person than than mail them to you, but we'll do either one.

SPEAKER_04 17:14

Yeah. That's that's amazing. Thank you for explaining the purpose of that. And that's a that's a really, you know, just such a a thoughtful and loving gesture for those those people that it's it's about it's about awareness.

SPEAKER_03 17:31

And that's you know, we need we need uh we need we need people to know. So we so when they know, doing nothing won't be, you know, isn't an option.

SPEAKER_04 17:40

So the the work that you do, of course, is rooted in the crisis of missing and murdered indigenous women and and relatives as well. What has it been like to carry that reality personally and collectively for the both of you? That's a pretty heavy question.

SPEAKER_00 18:00

But I I love your heavy questions, you know. This is something that demands heavy questions and deep thought and reflection. Carrying this, what has it been like to carry this personally and then collectively is it means carrying this is you never we never really truly set it down. It lives in our body, our prayers, our relationships, everything in our world is centered and often founded and grounded in this prayer. And it's it's personal, it's personal, it's deeply personal, because every name could be someone you know or someone connected to someone you love, and when you come into the stories, I would say collectively, you asked how it what it means to carry collectively, it's our communities feel these losses together, and grief just doesn't belong just to one family, it ripples outward, and at the same time, there's strength in that shared caring. And and it's in that space that we lean on each other, that we lift each other, and that we refuse to let anyone carry it alone.

SPEAKER_03 19:31

I think for me, what it's like for me to carry this prayer, you know, it's it's like she's like Tana says, it's it's always, it's every day. It's 24 hours a day. It's it's it's a lot, it's it's heavy, it's painful, it's beautiful. It's nothing compared with these families, the strength that they show every day. For me, I feel like I'm I I am nothing compared to what they endure every day.

SPEAKER_04 19:59

Yeah. Yeah, I beautifully put the way both of you describe that. I'm I'm glad that both of you have, and of course, the people that you know you do this work with outside of the both of you as well, too, the families that you work with. It's so much to carry individually, though there there are parts that of course you carry individually and you always keep with you, like you're describing Norm. But at the same time, I'm glad there's this collective feeling to carry this because it is so heavy and so hard and so devastating for people to have this, to carry, you know, to have to carry this alone. And like both of you are saying, the work that you're doing, you're making it so these families don't carry it alone. You're making it so that mom isn't carrying it alone, or that grandma isn't carrying it alone, or that sister isn't carrying it alone. You know what I mean? You know that there's at least somebody that is trying to bear some of this weight with you for you as you continue to move forward. So yeah, I just I just think it's so, so important to have that that collective peace. With what you've witnessed in families, right? Like people sometimes maybe on the news, they'll if it if it does come on the news, it's not very often we see MMIW on the news. That's that's one of the difficulties, right, with this crisis, is the that it needs more attention. So, but at times maybe there's a show or there's something where it'll talk about a family, it'll talk about something that that's happened. So they may see a little snippet, but you both, again, work very, very closely with some of these families and communities. So what is it that you've witnessed in these families and communities that most people don't see? Like they won't see on a little news snip or a little YouTube snip. What is it that the both of you witnessed?

SPEAKER_00 21:58

What many don't see. Is the ongoing nature of the loss. It doesn't end after the headlines fade for them. Families continue searching, continue advocating, and often without support in their fight for justice. And it's their strength, resilience that lives alongside their pain, our pain. So mothers are, like you said, we're are becoming investigators, and siblings are becoming protectors of the memory of their brother or sister, like community organizing in ways that systems have failed to do, have failed them. There's and then there's also these quiet moments. They're intimate and they're they're deeply moving when you see or have to raise an empty chair, or know that you're at a ceremony, and now songs that can't be sung in the same way. Ceremonies are held for those who haven't even come home, who are the still missing, which is yeah, is a whole other long story we can get into, but the void that it leaves in not having and knowing, these are all the realities that aren't visible but are always present.

SPEAKER_04 23:29

Yeah. Yeah, continue to take place when the the cameras go off, the recordings go off, and like you said, people go on with their lives, but they're not not for them.

SPEAKER_03 23:45

I think for me, the maybe most won't know is they think, oh, if someone goes missing, somebody helps and they try and find them, but that's not how it is with us. And through jurisdictional cogmires and and red tape and all this other stuff, that that is just an easy way to pass the buck and not do the work. I imagine they probably don't realize that it's the families, like Tana was saying, you know, that are the investigators, they're the the searchers, they're the reporters, they're the the everything to to advocate for their missing loved one. But people, I don't think, realize how many times they're also the recoverers. No human being, I don't care who you are, mother, father, sister, brother should never go through that. Yeah. And the other thing I wanted to touch base on what you just said a minute ago, too, is you know, we we seldom get news coverage, right? Uh police response, but the horrifying cases, right? And and you know, we we want to talk about the beautiful human being that we've lost, you know. We want people to feel the what could have been, right? What what we never will know what they would have been. But but this society somehow likes the glory, right? And that's the only time we can ever get headlined for for a minute. Yeah. And and that needs to change. Human beings, we we need to we we need to remember our humanity.

SPEAKER_04 25:12

You know, with with all of this that does take place, there's of course the grief that happens for the for the family that that they're going through, the grief and loss. We've maybe touched upon it a little bit, but I still want to ask the question. How do you how do you hold space for for grief that's not just individual, but for families, this is generational.

SPEAKER_03 25:34

It it's a ripple too. It's it's a ripple effect. I mean, it it affects families, communities, everyone.

SPEAKER_00 25:45

Well, I mean, that kind of grief requires intention and community, and really most importantly, well very importantly, is a connection to our culture and to our life ways and our practices. And you know, and that that means in this in how we hold that space is creating places where we can we can speak those names out loud and we can share stories and and families can be present and listened to, you know, without without feeling any kind of judgment because it's it's a safe space. But we can't forget, you know, that this is tied to histories of displacement. Grief, it didn't begin with us, it's tied to the long, no one person holds it alone, right? So it's something we carry together and it's definitely guided, right, Norm. I mean, so clearly guided by our ancestors and creator, and that is the beauty of it. When we say walk in beauty, that's what we're talking about. It's it's that when you are willing to leave everything behind and trust in the path, the footpath of that your ancestors have laid before you to carry this prayer, you know that this is led by creator, and it's powerful, and it's it is it's a healing journey for sure.

SPEAKER_04 27:16

Talking about the grief, one of the I think ways that there can start to be healing for people is if there's the ability to transform some of that grief into a healthy action. So, what does it mean for both of you to transform grief into action for yourselves, for maybe family members, people that are involved?

SPEAKER_00 27:45

Yeah, transforming grief into action, that's like really a good that should be a skill set that we all have. Transforming grief into action, that's like really powerful right there. And it means refusing to let loss turn into silence. That's what it means. It means honoring those that are missing and murdered by by continuing to you know advocate for their justice and educate others and building systems of care within our communities. This is what action looks like. Action can look like organizing and creating safe spaces and supporting families, but at its core is really love in motion, it's really the way that we love one another. And it's the way that Norm and I agree at the heart of our work, it's it is elevating and restoring and repairing and holding on to our humanity.

SPEAKER_01 28:48

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 28:49

Yeah. It's how we ensure that our grief becomes a force that protects our future generations rather than something that weighs us down and makes us lose ourselves. But staying connected, this is how we are going to rise above one of the most egregious evils in the face of genocide that we've seen against our people historically thus far, because they're intended trying to close the womb of the woman which is our life giver, which brings forward the next generation. So if we don't protect our women in the same way we're for fighting to protect our mother earth, if we don't protect our blossoming flowers that are in full bloom to carry forward the next generation, we are self-annihilating. We can't let them do this to us. We have to resist.

SPEAKER_03 29:47

Well, I I like the also, you know, how how we we change things. Humor has always been a beautiful thing for us, right? I mean, 537 years of dehumanization, brutalization, genocide, and we're still here. And we're still we're still loving and caring about others and our mother and our and our non-human relatives, we're still here.

SPEAKER_04 30:10

One of the things that I really think is powerful about the way both of you talk about the movement that you do is that is it's a prayer for the both of you.

SPEAKER_03 30:21

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 30:21

One of the most powerful things about your organization is the idea that prayer moves the action. So, what does that truly mean for you?

SPEAKER_00 30:30

It means everything that we do, everything. I'm not kidding, everything begins with intention, how we hold it. It's it's about, it's not just about like how we show up physically, it's we prepare ourselves spiritually, emotionally, mentally. And prayer is what guides us and centers us and grounds us when in this crazy world we're living in right now, in this climate we're living in. And it also is what makes sure we're not just acting, it's humbling us, it's making sure that we're in the right place, that we've set ourselves in the right place, you know, which is at the the the heart of the creator, you know, and that's what got and that and that we're not being driven by just anger and and frustration, but from love and responsibility and keeping those connections with our relatives, but also with the movement. And and so when we say prayer moves the action, we mean that our work is led by something much deeper and greater and higher than ourselves, and and it keeps us accountable to our ancestors, to all of our relatives out there, you know, to our families, and especially to our relatives who are missing and gone. I know Norm, I know you we talk about this all the time. Our first, most deepest commitment is is to the ones we've lost, and also to what Nailen Pike always says, those that are yet to be born, to the generations coming after us. That is our number one obligation, you know, and it it's it's how we show up. But I I will add this, and I know I know that Norm's gonna bring something beautiful into this story is that this has nothing to do with Norm and I. Like if you come to our uh one of our exhibits, or if you come to a march and rally, or taking of hand ceremony, or this weekend we're running the seven peaks for seven sisters at seven high points for for this year's sisters that were that that we carry this prayer for their families and for those gone missing. It it's in those moments when we maybe do a call to action because we have an idea. We can't take credit for any of it, huh, Norm? Down to the smallest acorn to the biggest action. I think of, I mean, do you want an example? Because it's important you hear a little bit of example. After our first exhibit, we did a call to action for a Mother's Day march, Balboa Park here in Kumya territory in San Diego, and we were exhausted. We had done like the biggest first exhibit we've ever done. We knew that we were gonna carry the red teepee to the beautiful old oak tree right there in San Diego, and then we were we brought all our banners to carry a march, and we only like I was like, wow, not that many people are showing up. Hey, maybe we're gonna get out of this.

SPEAKER_01 33:50

You're so tired.

SPEAKER_00 33:52

But no, creator, are you kidding me? I got a side-eye from creator for even having that thought. No, no, you stay committed to everything, and these beautiful elders showed up, and Jadol and Femme at the time showed up, and it was just she was Miss Saquon at the time. She was only 15 years old, and she was in her full regalio with her crown, and other relatives showed up to speak.

SPEAKER_03 34:18

It was beautiful, but when we went to take to the streets, well, about about 20 people showed up, so it was beautiful, it was it was enough. So we we said there's 20 of us, and we're gonna we're gonna do this, and we gathered all our stuff. But go ahead, sorry.

SPEAKER_00 34:32

No, I love it. So we gathered our, you know, we have streetwide banners. I have banners, we we took everything to the streets. We had our kumey sisters, we had people that came from afar. It was so beautiful. And we start marching down the street, like the whole street was shut off. We take over all of Park Boulevard in Balboa Park, and then Jadalyn, she's like, I hear something. You know, she's like, I hear something. And what it was was it Roe v. Wade. It was the overturning, all the youth, about 500 youth rose up, and we had a they were coming from the opposite direction.

SPEAKER_02 35:11

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_00 35:12

And we are standing there facing them with our banners, 20 of us, and they're 500 deep. And we did a complete face-off. What is the, you know, it's just all creator. They ended up taking a knee. We ended up sharing with them whose land they're on, and our kumiyai relatives are here today, and our bird, our our bird singers from the other side of the border, who are also kumiya, are here today because the border crossed the e-pai teapai community, and we educated them, and they all of them took a knee. And Ju and Fam at 15 years old addressed the violence against women and the missing and murdered indigenous women's crisis to all of these people.

SPEAKER_02 36:02

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 36:02

And then they stood up and we asked permission may we lead you in your march today. And they said we would be honored. And we turned around. So us 20 Deep with all of our banners and all of our posters, Jadolyn Fenn, 15 years old, Miss Saquon, she led that march. So amazing. And it looked like Norm and I organized a good deep march for Missy Murdered Indigenous Women. I it was like, what and so when we tell these stories and we say, hey man, this ain't about us. This is creator on the move. And if you can't keep up, step aside. And if you're not gonna bring a good heart and you're gonna calm in a negative way, you're not ready for this. This is something that you need to come into and be present in a in a good way. So yeah, you we just have to trust. And that's just so beautiful. We were just in North Carolina, and we had just been in the most powerful point, four point, where the Atlantic Ocean meets, the river meets the ocean. It's a it's a point on this island called Baldhead, and we were invited by our North Carolina red teepee keepers. And all of a sudden, we're we realized the sun was going down, and Norm ran up these stairs to see the sunset at the at the beach, right? We're in, and for us it's a big deal because it's East Coast Ocean. We're like, hello, water, we're meeting you for the first time. You're so beautiful and green, right? It's like a different color and different energy. Anyway, Norm, we come around the corner, we're running up to catch the sunset. You would not believe it.

SPEAKER_03 37:57

Well, I beat everybody out of the golf cart and I was already up there. I was able to I was able to get my camera out and stop a picture in case they weren't coming. And it was it was the most beautiful because we weren't able to. You have to take a ferry over there. It's you drive golf carts, there's no cars on the island. We couldn't get the teepee on there. So you know, we were just going there to support our relative who was speaking.

SPEAKER_00 38:22

Sustainability summit, it was very good.

SPEAKER_03 38:25

It was powerful, beautiful. The only indigenous group there, it was beautiful. Um, but when I when I went up onto the the steps and started climbing onto the the little berm that was covering everything, the ocean, I got to the top and I seen driftwood in the shape of a big teepee. And like eight-foot teepee, and also driftwood in the shape of a small teepee, a baby teepee. Wow, and I took a picture because the sky was red, the sunset was orange. It was red and orange, red and orange, like the like the children's lodge we carry in the in the MMIW lodge. So I got the picture, and I ran down towards the golf cart. Tiana was almost there, and I showed her, and it was just it was No, you didn't.

SPEAKER_00 39:14

You what are you and that's not how the story went.

SPEAKER_04 39:18

There's some embellishing going on in here.

SPEAKER_00 39:20

There was a little embellishing. Let's just because I gotta keep him honest.

SPEAKER_02 39:24

I didn't show you the photo.

SPEAKER_00 39:25

No, you were up there, and all of a sudden I heard in your voice, you gotta get up here. And all of a sudden, it was like, I was like, I've never heard him like he's seen something beautiful. I need to bolt. And I took off sprinting up there, and I turned that corner and went up those wooden stairs to get up the top. And the sun was bright red and orange, and then right in the center where the sun was, there was a yellow stripe. And there it was the red teepee and the baby orange teepee. And I swear I felt the prayer so strong. I was like, oh, creator, you are showing up, showing off, showing out. I felt the prayer so strong, and for me, feeling that prayer so strong like that and so beautiful, the creator was just saying, it's gonna happen. I hear your prayers. Total confirmation from creator, just letting us know these prayers, they're being heard. You just had to be there.

SPEAKER_02 40:31

But yeah, no, it sounds like I'm just overwhelmed just thinking about it right now.

SPEAKER_03 40:36

It would have been nice for you to be there, but but I think you had a beautiful photo of it. It's probably one of the best photos I ever took of my life.

SPEAKER_00 40:42

You'll find most of our stuff on Facebook, you know. We're that generation, yeah. And then we still haven't quite figured out yet how to make our website like really active and updated with our latest actions and have a calendar. That's all gonna happen down the road, you know, where we can maybe get a little bit of staff and some help. Right now, just like you, we're wearing all the hats, right? It can be overwhelming, but it doesn't matter as long as the prayer keeps going, you know?

SPEAKER_04 41:10

Yeah. So speaking of all the action, can you walk us through? Because I know a big part of the prayer that you carry involves the prayer run, right? Or the mountain climb. So can you walk us through what a prayer run or mountain climb represents? Especially the the spiritual part.

SPEAKER_00 41:33

Prayer run, a mountain climb is so much more than the physical act. It's not recreational for us, it's not performative, it's not based on goal, it is a prayer run. Yes, it challenges your body and your mind and your emotions. You have to be mentally strong, sure. But spiritually, it's a journey of holding intention and carrying the prayer. That's really it. Very simple. And as you're carrying the prayers and this, the names of our sisters and our relatives, and the stories that we've learned, and the grief and the love with like every step. You're not chatting it up, you're not wandering your mind, you have a disciplined mind because you know in this prayer that you are making a sacrifice. This isn't about you, this is about you holding intention, this is about you suffering when you are called to suffer. This is about when we run or we climb. You know, we're in relationship with the land. We are honoring our mother, our mother earth. We are honoring our mountain. There are our relatives, the mountain, especially, and we're listening and then we're remembering and we're honoring all at once. So every step becomes a form of prayer. And you know, when we reach the top, it's not about accomplishment or like it's about offering. We are finally made to be able to offer those prayers and lay down that tobacco and huddle up as a community and offer those prayers and offer a song and and release what we've been holding. So a lot of times there's a lot of tears, there's laughter, and and then we know that we can trust what our prayers have been heard, and then we can walk away knowing that we have permission. This is this will probably come up in another question, but it's just coming out and pulling a normie where I'm seeping in, is but that we have permission. It took me almost five years to get here, is that I'm starting to give myself permission. To laugh publicly, love, have joy to live. I couldn't do that for a long time. I was really, we were really, we were now coming to a place where we realize that our relatives want us to live.

SPEAKER_01 44:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:17

For them.

SPEAKER_01 44:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 44:19

Yeah. I did I I think I think I said it.

SPEAKER_04 44:24

Yeah, and I like how you're how you're saying it because so many ceremonies, whether it's male dancers or female dancers, same thing. Every step while they're dancing is a prayer. Every step is a prayer, whether it's for that loved one that they're praying for, for healing, whether it's their ancestors, future generations. Same thing, like you're talking about with all of these runs, with these climbs, and each step being a prayer, it's it's it's its own ceremony in a way. Everything that's taking place and everything that's that's happening. And so that's amazing. I'm thinking not just for the people that do it in a lot of ways, because and this goes back to again what is being held by people individually and collectively. And like you're talking about, this can be a form of a healthy release to be able in a healthy way to let go of that.

SPEAKER_00 45:22

Yes, that is the most important part of the ceremony, and and it's what we share with whoever is on the mountain with us, whether we're carrying the red teepee up Mother Miguel Mountain or whether we're carrying her up to 12,900 feet at first water on Mount Tumangaya. It wherever the prayer is happening, it's important to continually remind one another that we're doing this in honor of those that have gone on. We're literally being in connection. We really are, entering into a much deeper realm where um creator is bringing us together, and we get to see that witnessed and played out in the way that just in the way creator made that march happen, just in the way that creator had those teepees there. The creator will always paint the sky, the land, our hearts, our our imagination with creator's intention for this prayer.

SPEAKER_03 46:34

Or maybe he'll send a butterfly to run with us a quarter mile.

SPEAKER_00 46:38

Yes. Yeah, we've seen it all.

SPEAKER_03 46:41

Oh, yeah, I believe it.

SPEAKER_04 46:42

I believe it.

SPEAKER_00 46:44

It really is centered in creator for sure.

SPEAKER_04 46:47

What do you see with with some of the young people? Like when you see a young person carry a prayer to the top of the mountain, what do you see happen to them and and to everybody that's there?

SPEAKER_00 47:00

We've seen young people transform in those moments, transcend their broken heart and their grief for a moment. When they carry the prayer to the top of a mountain, we see shifts happen. We see something rise within them as strength, and they begin to understand their own strength, and um, not just physically, but I mean, I'm I'm really talking about spiritually and emotionally. We see they realize they're a part of something way bigger than they imagined because now they have stepped into this prayer, and I think when anybody from any generation steps into this prayer, you start to be molded and shaped and changed by this prayer. So there's a sense of identity that deepens and a connection to the land and the culture and in our life ways because we do in and when we do our claims, yes, this is us being who we are as indigenous people living in the 21st century, but we also hold on to traditional ceremonies and bring that medicine into the prayer. We have our staff and our buffalo drum, we have the medicine that comes with us, and so it's this isn't just some kind of hike. We really honor the water. We have we have different aspects of different, it's very intertribal, like our Lakota relatives. We have the the making of the prayer ties, you know, and offering that to the water. We have there's so much that is, it's like one big altar. It's one big ceremony in the way that that you carry it. The ceremony isn't some kind of ritual that you reenact and reenact, you know, because then it loses, it's like gutted out. The ceremony creates a space for that spirit, that using that spirit to come present among us and weave us all together in this prayer. But our young people, they stand differently and they speak differently, and and they they're strong. And wow, we had we had two relatives come with us and honor one of their relatives gone missing this year. They had just come out of Sundance, and one was our our youngest, and I really want to say his name, but I don't have permission, so I'm not going to. But two of them were they came and they man, without any training with us, they went to the Tumangaya to 14,500 Pete.

SPEAKER_02 49:56

Pete without any without any training or a jacket. Luckily, they were from North Dakota.

SPEAKER_00 50:04

And so, yes, what I'm trying to say is our Lakota brothers and sisters are were so that was the red teepee's first sun dance, and that was my first sun dance. And that was was Norm was that your first first sundance ceremony?

SPEAKER_03 50:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 50:21

We were uh in that's been a long time. We've been like invited to many, and it just never worked out. But this one we knew we were supposed to be there and how the prayer continues to flow. So we have to trust and creator, we can't be everywhere, and it just because you know it has to, it has to open up and flow like water, and that's when we know we're in we're in the spirit of this prayer, and so but they made it all the way to the top, and then we stay later, we carried the red teepee up three miles to 12,900 feet at first water, which is also known as Lone Pine Lake, with a lot of switchbacks. But my baby adopted granddaughter, Rosemary, nine years old. I can say her name because she's my baby, and I can off vouch for her, right? She carried, she she led, she and that young one, the 16 Sundancer, they led that prayer all the way up. And it is not easy. Yeah, in that high altitude, at that high elevation, to hear them and see them, and and at the end of our ceremonies, uh, we always have a space for people to share their what happened to them on the mountain. What yeah, what did Creator do? And the stories are very personal and would never be shared outside of that sacred circle. Yeah, it's life-changing, it's life-changing for sure.

SPEAKER_04 51:47

Yeah, yeah, I could imagine. Let's talk about the the red teepee. The red teepee, it's it's described as a a living memorial. Can you share the the meaning behind it?

SPEAKER_03 52:00

So the whole idea behind the red teepee is again, a brother and I were trying to figure a way to honor and contribute in some way. The the red teepee came about in Northern California and traveled the state of California gathering the hands of family members of our missing, and we're the whole idea behind it was to never forget, right? To say their names, to honor them and never forget. And like Tiana says, you know, we we don't know, we don't plan, and we don't, we don't make things happen. They just kind of happen. I remember the first time a family had said, uh, our daughter went missing and they're not doing anything. Can you help us? So we did. We we took that TP and we put it in front of the police station and we blocked their door with it. They had they had to walk around it and they had to read those names. We threw a press conference. And you know, it's heartbreaking that those are the types of things we have to do to get some type of response, but they but they did start to do their job. It's sad that we have to shame somebody into doing what they're paid to do instead of just passing the buck off on families. So the red teepee is a living memorial. It it travels and gathers those hands, so we never forget and we say those names. We want others to know those names. So in the years that she's been traveling, you know, we put her in front of police stations that don't do their job, news agencies that don't tell our story, and those big, beautiful buildings that paint that bullseye on our back, right? Those marble and gold in blade city halls and and courthouses and and state buildings, capitol buildings, you know, senators' offices. We we and and also powwows, you know. So it's it's main purpose is to to honor, honor those that we've lost. They're with us when we're in those places, though. You know, they're they're they're there with us as as we're fighting for for each other.

SPEAKER_00 54:01

She definitely is sacred. And sacred meaning she holds the presatives, the presence of our relatives in an active and ongoing way. We can feel it. When people come around her, they feel, they feel it. They begin to say, Oh, I'm gonna cry. Oh, you see, you see the change and the shift that's happening within them when they're around her. And it's not only just about remembering as a memorial, only in the past tense, it's about honoring, honoring them in the present, you know, and that's why the ceremony around the red teepee, the taking of hands ceremony that Norm was talking about is so sacred because when that family member offers her handprint or his handprint and honors a relative, there is there is something sacred they are entering in. They begin to feel to make that connection. So she represents, you know, protection and rip and and remembrance, but also she holds the voices of those who are missing and have been taken. And inside that space, their names and their stories, their spirits are acknowledged, and we're remembering them as humans, you know, human beings and our loved ones. It's it's living, she's a living memorial because the families and the communities and the prayers continue to move through it, and not just one, but I think why did we see the red teepee there in North Carolina? Because it's not just one, it's she is carrying the prayer. So as the as more teepees go out, every time she's raised, the prayer is being honored in that way.

SPEAKER_04 56:04

Yeah. So what I'm hearing in a sense is one of the purposes of the teepee is that it's creating a safe space for, like you said, for the families to share their stories, for them to have a space to to maybe have the ability to start some of their healing process. Not that it that ever ends, of course. But what does it feel like when the space is created for families to share their stories? What does it feel like, you know, when that's that's created for them in there?

SPEAKER_03 56:36

Well, I I wanted to say just one other thing before that. It's also acknowledgement, right? These families feel alone. Yeah. And and they're not, and they and we will never let them be. And it's it's acknowledging pain and sorrow and the and all those things that they're going through at the time, and and standing with them in solidarity is a big deal too. I'm sorry. Can you say the question again? I was I was like, Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_04 57:00

Yeah, what does it feel like when that space is created for families to share their stories?

SPEAKER_03 57:06

For me, I remember the first time I put we put hands on on the lodge when we offer the hand ceremony. Tiana's on the outside and she's kind of guiding them wherever they want to put their hand on the teepee. And I'm on the inside, so I can kind of get the paint to set right and have them pull it off where it doesn't look like Mickey Mouse, right? And and I remember the first time I did it, I felt her hand trembling. And when I came out, she kind of collapsed in my arms and she said, for that split second, I felt her.

unknown 57:44

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 57:44

And I thought, wow, maybe I'm traumatizing, right? And I said, should I stop? You know, because I was rubbing on her hand and and she couldn't see me, but I was on the inside of the lot. And she said, Oh no, thank you, you know, and so it was just like wow, the most heartbreakingly beautiful thing I've ever experienced.

SPEAKER_04 58:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 58:05

And and and the other, I mean, for me, it's just a blessing. I mean, just like I said, to see someone smile. I remember when Tiana and I were doing her her first action, and and this woman, she was like real small.

SPEAKER_00 58:22

Maya Malete's mother.

SPEAKER_03 58:24

I mean, she was just broken. I mean, the whole time I was there, I seen her off to the side and families circling her. She had like 30 family members around her, but she was just broken, non-stop crying. But when it came time for the hand ceremony, they asked if she could have a few more minutes to compose herself, which she did. And she finally came over and and she asked if she could put both her daughters that were with her, if they could both put their hands on the lodges. And of course, yeah. We said, This isn't ours, this is yours. Of course, you can you you you could have all 30 of your family members if you want. But she wanted her two daughters that were with her right then to to do that for their sister. And that's where I remember she stood on the side of me after it was done and just gave me a hug and looked up at me, and she was real short, like four foot something.

SPEAKER_04 59:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 59:13

And I looked down and she just had this most beautiful smile. And that's what I mean by I mean, just minutes before she was broken, and and to be able to experience that with her was a blessing for me.

SPEAKER_04 59:28

Absolutely. Yeah, thank you for sharing that, Norm. That's I can't imagine that experience.

SPEAKER_03 59:34

How there's so I couldn't, yeah. We could we could go two hours on on just on just this, you know. And I mean, there's just so many stories of of families. I remember the a deaf woman wanted to put her hands for her her sister who had went missing 20 years, and she still never found her. But we communicated on my phone where she would write something, and I would write something. But the first thing she wrote was, You want to acknowledge my sister? You you're you're offering to put her name on here. And I said, Of course, we want to never forget. And and she just broke, you know, I mean, just yeah, it's just it's hard to explain.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:13

Yeah, I can only imagine.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:17

It's powerful and it's heavy, and it's beautiful, there's a level of raw, raw truth and vulnerability. That's what I feel, and you don't see that in public spaces often. You know, you can feel when they begin to share, you can feel their the shift because for many families, it's one of the the few places where where they feel they can their stories can truly be heard. There's been a lot of different things that have happened now. We have summits and we have the Not Invisible Act Commission hearing years ago. We have all kinds of different conferences now. There's there's a lot more resources available to federal and and state tribes to be able to create different ways that can allow and open up in families to have share and tell their story. And that's so important because it's it's really important that families are in spaces where they can share their story without feeling stigma attached and where they can feel it's a safe space without judgment or dismissal. And so for them, it it's a place that brings them out of isolation because often in your grief you are living not only in the ice physical isolation because you tend to do that when you're grieving, but also just the emotional isolation. It is really a safe place to come out and and unveil and let let go of the things that you've been holding on to. So yeah, yeah, and and and it's also a prayer for us in our work and the way that we move in and out of spaces and carry ourselves in, is that when we go into a space, it could be very easy for us to conform to so if it's kind of a it's operating out of a more professional structure, even though it's a native-led action, or or if we go into a cultural center that's maybe a non-native action or a museum, we make sure, and this is really important. I want to get out. We make sure that we hold intention going in as who we are, and we hold that prayer all the way in those spaces where we don't like kind of shrink down and and conform to that kind of professional colonial language. We bring the ceremony in, and so when people come around, whatever it is action we're doing, they can feel the prayer, and then when they have a safe space to open up, they're now entering into the prayer with us, and they can feel the power of it. It's really beautiful, yeah, because assimilation is alive and well, and we've we all are victims of it, and we all have carried pieces of it, and we're still decolonizing our mind and letting go of practices that are not indigenous to our lifeways, they aren't who we are. We were raised in a society that and in in interstructures, even our tribal governances were invaded upon. And now the way that a lot of governance is more of a colonial model in ways that's impacting our communities all over the country. And so it's really important that we do the best that we can to create these spaces where we don't bow down, we don't bow down to that way, but we enter in and say, Welcome in, come in. This is how we roll, this is who we are. What we're doing here is sacred. And if you can't enter in a good way, maybe you should go home and and we'll pray for you that creator helps you find your way. Don't bring any bad stuff in here. This is sacred, it truly is, because when you are dealing with the broken hearts, the violent murders, the rape of our girls and our women, the trafficking of them, exploiting them for profit, the monetizing of stealing them and then mining their organs. You cannot come around this work without checking your ego, you cannot come into this work without being honorable to those families.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:33

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:35

That's just kind of how I feel about it.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:37

How does visibility from not only this prayer that the both of you do, but from the red teepee, how does this visibil visibility become a form of justice?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:51

Uh just visibility is is so powerful because silence is what Has allowed this crisis to continue for so long.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:04

It is silence in the system. It is silence of the victims because we don't give them a safe place to come out and then they're not believed when they do. Silence with internalized oppression, how family secrets are hold down some of the violence that happens within our own family context. Silence needs to be broken. When we make this visible, when the red teepee stands and she's raised and she holds such powerful presence, she's making this visible.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:00

The work that we're doing, a lot, you know, it's important that we say this because a lot of families don't get to see justice. Look at Sissy. She fought for Rosenda Strong, her sister, for eight years in the judicial system, fighting to bring justice, and she did it. She is a warrior that she is relentless and they got justice. And then we've met other families who got justice. They got the guy, the guy's locked up in prison for murdering her sister, throwing her under a pile of rubbish, and leaving her there. But she says there is no justice. So what's helped me heal, and I think what helps Norm is that in doing the work, in carrying the prayer, the prayer itself, the mountain climb itself, the rallies itself, the art itself, the teepee's, the shawls and bandanas are all a form of justice. You know, that we and every single person can restore the dignity of our indigenous women and relatives by saying we don't want to say MMIW anymore, that acronym, and we have to lay it to rest. And now we have to say honor and dignity of Indigenous Women's Day.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:28

Absolutely. I'd like to I'd like to just touch on that too. Like Tana says, you know, there there is no justice, nothing's gonna bring them back, nothing's gonna make it right, nothing's gonna make it any better. But accountability matters, and and we seldom get accountability. So those families that have to just be relentless, I I love and I stand and I and I praise them for the hard work that they have to do just uh to find some kind of accountability. And and it nobody should have to do that in in a just place, right? In in a humanity place. But I think I wanted to touch it's about relationships. So so the red teepee, uh, I don't I don't know if everyone's aware, I'm sure they're not, but but there's there's seven of them right now in in different states. We have 41 more to go. And that that those relationships that we're we're building, you know, where we help each other and we take care of each other, all those attributes that we live by, I I believe will help us to also uh restore a just place.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:37

And that reminds me of just honorable mention for the incredible work that Yolanda Frasier and Justin Ross, her son is doing together. They're red teepee keepers. They carry the red teepee in Montana. And this was the first teepee gifted out, red teepee that's being carried by families. You know, Norm will tell you, we started this work to alleviate, right? That's what an advocacy work does, right? Is to alleviate the suffering and the heavy lifting of all of this for families to be present, to sound the alarm as loud as we can, so they don't have to. But the way creator brought our past across, as they do, as creator does with every person or coalition that we meet that wants that that that is doing that frontline work for MMIW with the red teepee. That's we don't pick and choose and create a list. Creator weaves us together, weaves us like sweetgrass, uh like a bead together, beading together us. They lost, she lost her granddaughter, Cassara Stops Pretty Places, and is still fighting five years later for justice. Micah Westwolf is still her mother Carissa Heavyrunner. They're part of that same, they carry that red teepee together. She lost her daughter, Micah Westwolf, to a hit and run. And don't get it twisted. Hit and run is another form of violence against our people that is often not talked about. It's a way that we can be erased, disappeared, and then, oh, it was an accident. So I don't want to go down that path, but I want, I want to just share with you the incredible work that they are doing. We're just honored to know such amazing people that have the biggest hearts. And I will say, Yolanda has always taught us and always said that this is a community. Missing, murdered indigenous women and relatives is a community that has been forged by tragedy, is brought together through tragic losses, suffering, despair, hardship, and yet we are a beautiful community in the way that we, through this pain and heartache, have found love and kindness, generosity, and hope. And we are still all standing together to carry this prayer in a good way.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:28

I'd like to also honor our North Carolina Red TP keepers, our seven directions of service who are doing amazing work out there in unbelievable conditions. So many injustices down there and our Ponka relatives in Oklahoma. You know, there's all our TPKs just doing amazing work, and it's it's beautiful to see like-minded, good intention, doing things for the right reasons, and coming together and being one. We're stronger together.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:01

All right. So how do you think that reconnecting to land and culture helps to repair what trauma has disrupted?

SPEAKER_00 1:13:11

Well, for me, healing isn't something that happens all at once. And it's not just individual, healing is layered, and so and it's it's emotional, spiritual, and physical, but it's also communal. So it's about coming back into balance and relationship, and the trauma disconnects. Trauma disconnects and it pulls us away from who we are and from each other and from our sense of belonging. But being in connection to the land and culture brings us back. It's like calling back our own spirit, it's where ancestral memories live, giving ourselves over when we go to the land, giving creator access to our mind and our heart and our spirit to bring what we need to bring to creator, and then also offer up the prayers to creator, right? So the land holds memory and it holds, she holds teachings and she holds us without any judgment, you know. So when we stamp step back onto the land and in a good way with intention, holding that intention we talked about as prayer, we we begin to remember who we were, and it begins to repair, and it is a part of our healing journey. I think of our sister Simone Senegal. I think about her, and she did such an amazing work and uh was the most beautiful relative and sister that I know in terms of how she carried herself in the world and how giving she was to everyone. She used to say something at the Protecting Mother Earth conference that stuck with me forever, and she said, I don't know who said this, but she brought it to us and she said, As much as we need the land, our mother, the land needs us. Yeah, we she is longing for us to make that return, she is longing for us to bring those prayers and honor that, and so I think that's how connecting to the land and culture really matters. And I also love what Grand Grand says. I wish I had air, I'm afraid I'll get it wrong. But she says, you know, we are we are we are not going back to the nature, we are nature healing itself. We are I know I'm saying that wrong, but it's about that. You know, we are we are nature, and um, so we'll leave it there. These are our matriarchs, these women.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:00

I I think it's more we're we are not we are not protecting nature, we are nature protecting ourselves. It's all one, right? Something like that. It's beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:09

Yes, yeah, thank you, Norm. It's so beautiful. We can't remember the words of wisdom that come down from our matriarchs, you know, that are that are guiding us and leading us. So the land is very important on our healing journey.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:23

Yeah, absolutely. So, Tiana, Norm, what do you what does true support look like when walking alongside families impacted by loss? By these families from MMIW?

SPEAKER_00 1:16:37

Well, showing up consistently is really important. It's not just in moments of visibility, but it's in the quiet. It's being a part of the ongoing reality of what families are caring. I I guess it means listening more than speaking, and the hardest part is try not to fix something that can't be fixed and maybe isn't even our place to do so. So we have to step back unless we're invited in. And it's it's about honoring their loved ones, you know, all the things that we know that we have to do. We don't want these things to become cliche or a trend. We don't want them to be deduced to some something that's trending right now, but really having our heart present in the moment when we say their names, to be even honored to say their names, and making sure that they're not forgotten. Sometimes support it looks like action, helping advocate, organize, but a lot of the time honestly, for us, it's just being there in a very real and human way, and and for us, letting families know they're not alone and they don't have to carry this alone. And you know, I think this is how we birthed the seven peaks for seven sisters prayer run that happens annually, and then out of that prayer run came the exhibit, the walking in beauty exhibit with the seven peaks for seven sisters exhibit, where every year we honor seven sisters and we don't like do research and get a list again. How the sisters come into that we honor, because there's 10,000, right? How do you pick? Yeah, it's it's keeping with the the way that we walk is that on the prayer journey we come across the families, we meet them, we're in relationship with them, we feel them, we know their stories, and and we're we become family. The seven peaks for seven sisters, you know, we're about to start that May 1st, and we'll do our first peak because we haven't we this year we had the prayer exhibit go up, honoring all of these sisters. And what makes this year's seven sisters so painful is these are our babies, these are our missing flowers. They're from the age of you know 22 all the way down to 14. And this year's exhibit was extremely painful. I don't I it was extremely tender because of the loss, was so heart-wrenching because these babies have never hadn't had their lives taken from them and from their parents and from their brothers and sisters before they even be got got to be gone their journey and become women, you know, and live their life and find their beloved partner and have children and all of that was taken from them. So this year we had our exhibit, and we met with all the families. And what was harder about this year was so many of the sisters, the young babies were, you know, the some of these losses happened this year within six months. Yeah. So the families are still in real lifetime grief. It was it was extremely um humbling. It took a lot of courage. I felt like I had to pray to Creator, you know, is is this okay to even ask at this point? So we want to trust in Creator. If they're ready, they'll let you know. And so, you know, Amanda Dale May, our Osage girl, you know, we met her family last year and danced with her mother, who has a beautiful family. And we honored Amanda this year in the seven peaks. We're gonna honor her coming up, running the peaks for her, and then Brianna Higgins, she is the niece of Shiloh LeBeau, who gave us permission to carry this prayer, to honor her in the Seven Peaks for Seven Sisters, MMIW Walking in Beauty exhibit. She was only 14 years old. And then you look at this is what brought us together, brother. Amiley, beautiful Amiley J. Clark, who was having her going home ceremony when we were there at Sundance in Eagle Butte. And when you think about that, how painful that was to lose her that way, to share tears with her father and know her story, to later have her uncle come to all the way from LA to meet us at her exhibit and see the first time that Amiley stood there as a warrior. These are our warriors. These these girls are our warriors, they're leading the way.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:43

And then Emily Pike to have to reach out to her mama and ask permission. And she had this was a huge high-profile, violent, violent, horrible way that she was taken from us, you know. And still, no justice today. And still with a $200,000 award and a turquoise alert, you know, right outside. Our Chirakawa Apache relatives, our stroke, you know, our Apache stronghold relatives are right there fighting for her, fighting for missing murdered indigenous woman, you know. And then Stephanie Bear's tail out of Wind River Reservation. Her mama is just, she was a beautiful high school student about her whole how had her whole life in front of her with you know, dreams of going on and in the medical field. And she was an incredible softball player, and and her beautiful face and her innocence, and to not have her is just really painful. And then Micah Westwolf, the one that we were sharing, is Carissa Heavyrunner's daughter out of Montana. The work that they're doing to still fight for justice for her. And then Michelle Elboshields from Rapid City found on the Pine Ridge Reservation her remains. She's probably the oldest case, I think it's been two years, and they found her remains. And you think about the stories that when we go to those mountains and we start running a peak, we're holding intention and carrying these prayers for each one. And each one represents all of our community, all of our missing and murdered indigenous warriors. They're all warriors. So we just wanted to share that with you how the prayer takes visibility and ceremony with the mountains, and how the prayers matter, and we're about to start. So we're just calling on everybody to hold us in prayer, you know, that we have the strength to um do these, climb these peaks, be safe in a good way, and carry these prayers.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:12

Wow. Thank you, Tiana. Thank you, Norm. Again, for holding the space for like you said, with these these families in terms of the grief and loss that they're going through of just you know, really what the both of you are doing is what mental health therapists do for people that are struggling and that are going through grief and loss. And one of the biggest interventions to do for people that are going through grief and loss is to hold that non-judgmental space that you so eloquent eloquently put it, you know, into words. Non-judgmental space presence, asking permission, which is huge. Right? Asking permission, how can I support you? Asking permission, how can I help you? Because for everybody that'll look different. I just can't say enough about the approach that both of you have in what you do for for the families and for these loved ones that have gone way too way too early. We've talked a lot about your work, the the amazing work. I know it's obviously when both of you are talking about this, it has its toll on the both of you. Your emotions, how you feel, what's happening. I want to look a little bit to the future though, for the both of you. What what is your vision for the future of this movement that both of you are then and the prayer that both of you are carrying?

SPEAKER_03 1:27:12

For me. The prayers that it that it if we could bring this to an end, you know, where we can not have to do this. That that's that's the prayer, right? That there's people that are supposed to be doing this work, do this work because ever we're all human. We understand in this day and age, if we don't do it, no one will. And that that's that's a sad reality that we live in. And that's what I wish would come to an end.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:47

That's true. That's the bottom line right there. I also think the vision is a future where our people are safe, where our women and relatives are protected.

unknown 1:27:59

And

SPEAKER_00 1:28:00

Where this work, like Norm says, is no longer needed the way that it is now. But beyond that, I do see a movement that you know that's continuing to grow in strength and unity, uh, is to protect the prayer. I think we Norm and I always say our number one first obligation is to protect the prayer. Even if we have people that we have to we when we conflict can come out of making us down like that, where people don't understand, well, you know, well, we're protecting the prayer, and that's all we can say. That's our number one responsibility is to protect the prayer, the sacredness of of all of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:47

And yeah, so really important that our communities are leading the solutions, that the families' voices are centered. I know we talked about that in the first the first podcast that we did with you, and that was really beautiful. And we it was very information heavy, and a lot of that information came from many different sources sources of other MMIW organizations um doing the heavy lifting with research and data. That's really not where Norm and I live in our work, but it's our responsibility to know and honor and carry that knowledge forward, be educators in it. But it's it's I think most important, it's where our ways of knowing are respected. It's so important because when non-natives and or even people that maybe don't walk in this way, honoring the old ways of our ancestors, the old ways of being a human being, the old ways of being kind, when that is violated, it hurts so badly. It feels like they're desecrating something so sacred that you're holding that it's really important that it's this is where our voices are no longer like ignored, but people are honoring that. I don't want to see the movement just rooted like in awareness, but we all do real change, end it. We see system systems like our shifting, accountability is slowly happening, and and uh it's important that our people are being valued with dignity and the ways that they always should have been because we've always been here.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:43

What about hope? What gives you hope? These realities that you carry are heavy. Obviously, we've we've heard some of it through this talk, through especially a lot through the first part of this series as well, too. But what gives you both hope?

SPEAKER_03 1:31:03

Ayana gives me hope. She does. She she I've been doing this work for quite a few years, and it really matters how we treat each other, it really matters how we treat others. And a lot of people talk about being a good relative, but they're really sometimes not. And and I think it's important that we keep the intention of this. But what I think gives me the most hope is in our travels, it's the relationships that we're forming. The like-minded, beautiful people out there who want the same things gives me hope. Nice.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:47

I love, I love that, Normie. And you know, he's so kind in saying that because really honestly, Norm is where I get all my tips for being a kind human being. I feel like the partnership has been, we, you know, our strengths and our weaknesses are both compatible in the way that we lift each other up where the other one needs. And and uh it really, it was it's a really beautiful and strong connection in this prayer that we hold extremely sacred and we walk in it with a lot of integrity. And we both understand for us that the prayer is just central to our life and to the way that we carry it. What gives me hope is our people, like Norm was saying, it's our relatives, especially our young people. I see the way they show up, the way they're learning, the way their face lights up, when they put their hands on the bones and they help raise the teepee, or when they come out for a prayer run. I see the light in their eyes, you know, and they're reclaiming and really standing and walking in in the fullness of who they are. And I see the strengths in families, you know, who continue to speak on their loved ones, no matter how much time has passed by, as Norm was saying. It could be 20 years. You're not gonna forget a relative or a loved one. And I and community coming together is really beautiful. We see it happening more and more. A lot of the walls are coming down. There's um less of a competitive spirit that sometimes gets in there, which is just really breaks my heart because we're not here to come together. Imagine if we all came together. Norm and I were just at a race this weekend. It's the first MMIP 5K race I've done in a decade because I've been promising myself I will not enter into a race where I'm gonna battle in that way unless it's an Indigenous-led, you know, unless it's tribal, unless it's on tribal land, or it's led by our communities. And it was really an honor so to be a part of that. But the fact that we're still here, still fighting and still loving our people enough to keep doing this work, that's what gives me hope. And like the young ones, like where we're going this weekend for MMIW, I the acronym is strong, it's getting well known. It breaks my heart every time I say it, and I want it to go away. I also understand that we have to say it, and so we do have a National Day of Awareness, which is a presidential proclamation that was implemented by Joe Biden during his administration, where we honor Hannah Harris's birthday, who went missing in 2013. And her mother, Melinda Limberhan, should be have honorable mention, and she she should be known like Dolores Huerta or anyone else. She should her you should know who Melinda Limberhan is for the work that she did in the Senate in Montana. A warrior fought to get these things passed. And so now we have this day. Of course, it's become more like MMIW Month, the month of May. A week is not enough, and a month is not enough. And of course, Norma and I do this work all year round, but it is special to come together with so many communities doing this work. So Haneke Dunn is a young indigenous playwright. The way that we met her and her mother is just such a prayerful journey, and it would be too long to tell right now, but let's just say it's sacred and all creator. Like there's no other way all these connections could happen. But she called and let us know how excited she was that she was put her play into, she wrote a play on MMIW called Tourniquet, and she was entered into a competition. It was an indigenous competition at Yale University, and she won.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:22

Oh, amazing!

SPEAKER_00 1:36:23

So she invited us to come. What could Norm and I do? We're like, we gotta get up on a plane and make sure we're there to honor this young. She gives me hope.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:36

Phenomenal.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:37

She gives me hope, and she's so beautiful.

unknown 1:36:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:41

She's she wrote the most amazing play, and we got to hear the reading of it, and uh we got to be there and celebrate her, and her mom is one of the actors in the reading of this play. Anyway, she's now here going to Cal State University, LA. And so for Missing Murdered Indigenous Woman's National Day of Awareness, on which is coming up this Tuesday, May 5th, we are going to be honoring her by raising the red teepee. She we were invited. We'll be doing a talk back after her reading, and she will be doing another reading at her the university where she's going. So our young people, our young people, and for us, Norm and I think young is anywhere between, you know, eight years old and 45.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:34

Right. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:37

Right. I mean, you know, I'm 64. So, like to see our our our 40-year-olds, our 25-year-olds, our 30-year-olds step in and begin doing work and carrying prayer through their talent and through their their knowledge, it's really beautiful. So, yeah, our young people give us a lot of hope.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:58

Absolutely. Thank you for that. I have to ask the question, and I'm sure, well, one of my hopes is that people will get motivated after listening to these episodes with both of you talking about the work that you do, about the information that you've put out there, the education, all of the above. If somebody listening wants to support or get involved, where do they begin?

SPEAKER_00 1:38:31

Well, I say you've already made your first step. Listening is a part of learning. And once you learn about this, you can't unlearn it. Once you know, you can't unknow. And once you know, if that doesn't move you and start a fire within you, not only with outrage, but a willingness to serve and be present. Yeah. Take time to understand the history and the reality of what's happening, not just on the surface, you know, but deeply. You know, don't just slap a red handprint on your face and think you're and throw a ribbon skirt on, you know, especially if you're non-native. Have respect, enter in a good way, support indigenous-led organizations, amplify voices of families by just being present and listening. Be very mindful of how you move in these spaces. Try and be invited in. Don't push your way in anywhere. You're gonna get you know, side-eyed, and people are gonna not understand, let you know you don't understand yet. So just learn. But if you're invited into this work, come with respect and humility, you know. It's about standing alongside and supporting in ways that are actually helpful.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:56

But I I want, and this goes for our native and non-native. We want we want 8 billion people in this fight with us. We want 8 billion people helping us to bring this to an end. Don't worry about who you are. Everybody has something they're good at, everybody has something that they can contribute. You can do it through art, you could do it, do it through writing, you could do it through legislative, or just show up and listen and learn, and you'll do fine.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:27

He's so right. Everybody matters, and we're at a time and place in history where, yes, you this is this is a place for every good human being that has a soul and a heart and that's outraged once you learn. Definitely.

SPEAKER_04 1:40:45

Will you please, Norm or Tiana, will you say the name where where they go for your website? And then also how can they find you on social media? I'll also post it. Do you want to also mention that on this before we get ready to wrap up as well? I want everybody to know where to find you.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:02

Yeah, so we are our website is wayof the sacred mountain dot org. And we say way of the sacred mountain, and we knew it was gonna be a mouth mouthful, but we want we want it that way. So you remember who we are.

SPEAKER_04 1:41:34

Is your email?

SPEAKER_00 1:41:35

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 1:41:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:37

And at Way of the Sacred Mountain on Facebook.

SPEAKER_04 1:41:43

Perfect.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:44

We don't have we have an Instagram, but there is absolutely zero content on it, and we're just too busy to load it. And yeah, you know, we'll have to get some help.

SPEAKER_03 1:41:52

And like we say, we we know everybody's good at something, so there's somebody good out there in in graphics and social media we would love to meet. Yeah, yeah. All right. Well, also, also, you can get a hold of us through Tiana Viscara on Facebook or Norm Sands on Facebook.

SPEAKER_04 1:42:09

Excellent. Well, Tiana and Norm, I can't thank both of you enough. This has been an amazing journey that we've had, you know, doing these doing these two episodes. I can't, again, thank you enough for the work that you do with the families, with the communities, with the youth, with all of the different generations. And I look forward to seeing where your work goes. I look forward to seeing what continues to happen for the both of you. And you both are gonna, of course, be in my prayers and my thoughts, and I know I'll continue to be able to speak with you and see you and all that good stuff. So I want to thank you both so much. And any last words before we say the final goodbye.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:55

Well, I can't thank you enough. And and like I say, we all have something we're good at, and and what you're doing matters, and and it's really important, and we really appreciate you and and those amazing tough questions that you asked. You know, that those important questions that we need to answer, and and and it was really important for us. Not like like Tana says, this was all creator, this meeting we have with you, and and this isn't the end, it's the beginning, brother. We we love you. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:23

I'd like to add what comes to mind. Just want to instill that this is this whole podcast is the way that um Way of the Sacred Mountain, how we show up and how we've been called into this work, but we truly acknowledge and value and are in awe of all of our relatives, you know, across the country and even past those border lines, our artists, our people that are working in legislation, our people that are doing good work all around the country and and do you know, collecting data. We want to make sure that we don't, you know, people like Lisa Yellowbird that's doing incredible work in her search practice for MMIW. There are so many different ways and creative ways that this community has come together and showed up. So it's really important for us that I love the people doing the work on sexual assault and gender violence, on human trafficking. It's really important that everybody just understands that we are this is who we are and this is how we carry, but we honor everyone that's doing the work together. And we're that's basically what I want to say.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:50

Beautiful. Thank you. And before I say goodbye, just want to again thank you, everybody, who took the time to listen. And please, please, please, if you listen to this episode, please share it with somebody else because the best way to help this movement again to help this prayer that Tiana and Orm have is to spread the word about it at the grassroots level. So thank you everybody for joining us on another episode of Finding Your Voice.