“Growing Pains, Grocery Runs, and Moldy Bread”

In this episode of Laughing Through the Uncomfortable, Jeff and Julie welcome special guests Ben and Katie to talk about what really happens when family lives together as adults.

What starts as a practical decision, in saving money after college; quickly becomes a crash course in boundaries, communication, neurodivergence, and emotional growth. From moldy bread and grocery-store blind spots to sensory sensitivities and difficult conversations, this episode explores how good intentions can still lead to tension and how honesty, patience, and love can bring people closer.

Together, they unpack:

• The difference between being roommates vs. being family
• How neurodivergence shows up in daily life and shared spaces
• Why hard conversations matter (and how to have them without burning bridges)
• The role of siblings, partners, and protectors in growth and independence
• What everyone learned by navigating discomfort instead of avoiding it

This episode is for anyone who has ever lived with family, moved in with others, struggled to communicate needs, or grown through uncomfortable—but necessary—change. Because no one has it all figured out… and sometimes the best way forward is to laugh through it together.

New episodes every two weeks. Follow us on Spotify, iHeart, and Apple Podcasts!

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

Welcome back to episode three of Laughing Through the Uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_05 0:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 0:04

Yeah. So we have some special guests today.

SPEAKER_05 0:09

Yeah, really special guests.

SPEAKER_04 0:11

Okay. Really special? Just special. No.

SPEAKER_05 0:13

No, they're really next. It's my middle brother and his and my sister-in-law.

SPEAKER_04 0:19

Yeah, my daughter-in-law, my daughter. Uh, from a different mother, I can say, right? Yeah. You could speak, right? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So we we thought today it would be good because the first two episodes we talked about you and your social and just like kind of like just as the what introduction, like you said, to establish a concrete, like just a foundation of just me and social setting, but it's context. Context.

SPEAKER_05 0:43

And it'd be nice to basically share like what is that like social setting in like a family dynamic, like my brother and sister-in-law like dynamic in the social settings of the apartment that we live together. I was basically apartment. Well, an apartment, but I thought it was an apartment. I was basically living with Ben and Katie at the time, too. So it's like it's nice just to research on that on the house.

SPEAKER_04 1:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:10

Sorry. No. Performance apartment.

SPEAKER_04 1:14

But the other thing that's interesting is this was before you guys are married. So before we start, we're gonna talk. Okay, say hi. Ben, Kate, introduce hello.

SPEAKER_06 1:22

Hello. I'm Ben. I'm obviously his middle brother. The unintelligent emotional the unintelligent, uh, emotional, unintelligent middle brother. According to Katie. Married, according to Jeff. Married. This is my Katie to my left. We have our fabulous son Luca. If you want to introduce yourself, you're more than welcome to.

SPEAKER_02 1:42

Oh, thanks for the permission.

SPEAKER_06 1:43

You're welcome.

SPEAKER_02 1:45

I'm Katie, Ben's wife, and Jeff's sister-in-law, and Julie's daughter, and Luca's mom.

SPEAKER_04 1:51

Yeah. And so you guys have been together since 2018. Yeah, you guys met in college. Ben in college. Yeah, yeah. And and okay, so there's a lot of stories. And if Logan was the key person to this whole podcast, we would talk about all the stories involved with Ben and Kate and Logan. I mean, and Ben having to say, it doesn't matter. We're not talking that. But Kate has seen a lot with our family, and she's basically she blended perfectly, right?

SPEAKER_05 2:20

Oh, yeah. So sister immediately.

SPEAKER_04 2:23

Yeah. So 2021. It was possible. Yeah, 20, 21, 21 and a half.

SPEAKER_06 2:30

It was late COVID 2021, late, and then early 2022.

SPEAKER_04 2:35

Yeah, that they you guys all moved in. Yeah. And we moved out. So we moved out and went somewhere else, me and my husband, and left you guys. And it was best for you guys to save money, basically, right? So you guys postgrad early 20s. Yeah. Trying to figure it out.

SPEAKER_06 2:53

Best case scenario, be able to have a place to where we could save up some money and have my brother as my roommate and girlfriend at the time and be able to just save up money to be able to uh be the place we're at now.

SPEAKER_04 3:08

So you know what's interesting is the fact that you actually moved out to go to college.

SPEAKER_06 3:11

I did.

SPEAKER_04 3:12

Yeah. And then Jeff was went to community college, got his degrees, but then you moved out, and then you went to college for a year and a half. But then when you moved back, so you guys had not lived together for three or four years. Yeah, the brothers hadn't lived together for a while.

SPEAKER_07 3:28

Correct.

SPEAKER_04 3:28

And then you all moved back together. So here's the question. The question from because I'm just here to laugh and think about because I wasn't here.

SPEAKER_07 3:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:39

I I wasn't living. I came down every couple weeks and I stayed in like a weekend and I left and I'm like, see you later. But he scorched earth, took off leaving, right? Growing up with Jeff and then living with him, obviously your parents were there, is completely different than you living as an adult here. And then having the dynamic of Kate being there. Like, so what was one thing that you was different? What was the like a learning curve for you guys living together? Knowing that Jeff had his intricacies, his tendencies, I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 4:12

Tendencies and habits uh from my college and transitioning to the house. And it's it was it was more like something that you have to like break into and something like you have to change because it's not your mom that's living there, it's a it's a it's it's a woman that your brother, brother's girlfriend slash fiancee pretty soon. And that is something like, okay, it's not my mom, she's a lady that I have to start a sister. I never had a sister, and it's different dynamics. And I'm like, you know what? I'm like, I'm gonna be on my best behavior, do the do the best thing I need to do.

SPEAKER_04 4:49

That lasted for six months, I bet.

SPEAKER_01 4:52

I oh that that lasted for six growing pains, and we've never lived with brothers. No, I only have a sister, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:03

So boys, I was like, Well, what the heck is this? Yeah, why don't they live to freaking see? And then I said I taught them to live to see. But the thing is, in the in the in the house that we were you guys are raised, I had my own bathroom, and then you guys were this is your bathroom, it's your responsibility. I don't, it was it, like close your doors. Uh that's my plan in floor, code. That's not my that's not my responsibility. Right? So then you now are living with Kate, your brother's girlfriend, who's been a part of the family since 2018. So now we're at four years, but living, and then now it's not your mom, so it's not like you can come out in your underwear.

SPEAKER_05 5:40

Nope, not anymore. I had to like learn that dynamic, and I had to be a very I had to be a gentleman, I have to be, I have to clean up the house, making sure everything's clean, making sure the bathroom's clean, the toilet, and did you do that? I tried.

SPEAKER_00 5:55

I tried good intentions.

SPEAKER_05 5:57

I had good intentions, he had good intentions, and it was a nice conversation of again being narrow divergent. She kind of sat me down, and same as Ben. I'm like, hey, you need to change some stuff. I'm like, you know what? That's fantastic. Yeah, it was a tough pill to swallow, but I had a change and it was fantastic.

SPEAKER_04 6:15

And now we were like not change, but just grow and think about like adapt.

SPEAKER_05 6:19

Adapt and mature a little bit, but it's it was nice having that conversation because no one really like no one would have those hard conversations instead of like you, like for you and dad, like hard conversations and stuff. It's most likely just adapt and we'll coexist together.

SPEAKER_06 6:36

But it's also because I grew up with you, yeah. I know how you are, yeah. So I have you're you're the older brother, yeah. But because you are neurodiger neurodivergent, I took the older brother role over you and Logan, right? And I know how you are, and I know how you were obviously raised because I was raised the same way. Katie didn't know how we were raised and everything, and I know how you are, she didn't know how you were. So when we all moved in together, she would come to me and be like, listen, this is like unreal. Yeah, and I'd be like, Okay, but listen, it's I mean, it's Jeff, like this is like where we like we'll have we'll have conversations, we'll have conversations.

SPEAKER_04 7:17

And I think the most important thing is the fact that you both recognize, and Jeff both did, I mean, all of you recognized that you weren't coming from a place that matters. Yeah, yeah, I always knew that. Yeah, I right, and like so you're talking about earlier, like another conversation that we're probably gonna talk about with you guys. I don't know if you guys, you guys can be involved if you want, with that, you know, pictures of people and asking people to send pictures. It's like you aren't coming from a place of I don't like you, this is how I am, changing, but you're coming from a place of like I don't understand what why okay, fine. I don't I can't do this.

SPEAKER_05 7:54

Well, the thing is the whole premise and the foundation of it is because well, because growing up, Ben for me and Ben, I was always the great higher, and then Ben was always the grade behind, but he always he took the mantle of being the older brother because I couldn't really handle that role because I'm still developing. He was my protector in high school, right? And that is the greatest gift I've ever gotten from him, and it was a great privilege of him being my guardian. And but unfortunately, like every time I came home, my room was my safe space. And I remember sometimes you and dad coming home from work. I'm like, my you and dad would tell me, like, hey, get out of your room, and you know, like I would be writing. I mean, like, I need something to kind of decompress decompress everything. Like, because, like, again, I'm dealing with bullies, I'm dealing with teachers, I'm dealing with everything. And my brother would help me defend against the bullies, and honestly, unfortunately, they get under my skin, but I had to decompress.

SPEAKER_04 8:52

And and you never you guys had the only time I heard about that was when you were pulled out of the office because of that situation with the twins in high school. We're not mentioning names, yeah. But that's what the first time.

SPEAKER_05 9:03

There are two sets of twins. I really hated it. Yeah, there are two sets one short, one medium. I fought them both.

SPEAKER_04 9:10

Yeah, I know. Thank you. The reason why I bring that up is you know, as a parent of a high schooler, sometimes you don't know how to talk to me about that, right? At the time, we didn't have our conversations of grown weeks.

SPEAKER_05 9:24

Well, that's another conversation.

SPEAKER_04 9:26

And I'm saying like Ben, we our conversations grew throughout the years, too. Yeah, but what's interesting is so you knew, so that's a dynamic of growing up, right? Ben, like taking that I gotta protect my brother, yeah, and I don't want to bring my mama bear in it because she'll scorch the high school.

SPEAKER_05 9:42

It's it's the premise and principle of a safe space.

SPEAKER_06 9:45

When I moved back, I knew that because as soon as she would bring something up, I'd be like, I'll have a conversation with them. It's fine. It's fine. Like, I don't want to be Katie, right? She, me and Katie, like this is our safe place, and I know that you are who you are, and you are in your room majority of the time. And we've had that multiple conversations throughout the three years that we were living together. I was like, hey, why don't you get out of your room and come hang out with us? Like, yeah, let's let's go sit on the couch and just hang out.

SPEAKER_05 10:11

And and I did, and I tried and I slowly progressed.

SPEAKER_06 10:14

I know it was hard.

SPEAKER_05 10:15

I know it was really hard, but even work. Work was like high school, like still, right? Yeah, and I'm so glad that you now understand and like understanding that Ben told you what like everything, and I'm so glad, but that's the real purpose of like I didn't want to talk to people.

SPEAKER_04 10:30

Yeah, exactly. Exactly because you're tired, exhausted from work and overwhelmed, overwhelmed with information.

SPEAKER_05 10:35

I need to take a matter.

SPEAKER_04 10:36

But here, this is an interesting dynamic. This is interesting because I I just thought about a lot of people who are not neurodivergent, who are just moving in together, they have the same issues. Yeah, yes. It's how you approach the conversations though that are different. Yeah. So I I don't know if it's like, okay, so and I know that with I know that a huge thing was him getting out of the the mindset of I gotta, you know, this is me and I have to take care of this. And then when he would go to the store to buy stuff, he'd only buy him his stuff as opposed to reaching out and saying, Hey, I'm at the store, right? Yeah, okay. And that is just the fact that you are in your little cocoon. Yeah. But a lot of people have that issue, for sure.

SPEAKER_06 11:20

And I think I think a lot of people have that issue because we all go through that, because we all move out, we all go to college, we all have roommates, have to live with other people, and we have to live with other people. And I mean, Katie and I, we've lived with two of my best buddies in college, teammates, teammates through baseball, and we moved into a bigger house with two other roommates to where we had five people total with all girlfriends, so 10 people. So we all have that dynamic of okay, we're we're shopping for each other, but now we come home and we're living with each other, and okay, now we're gonna be like, okay, let's go to the store. And I always used to every once in a while, I'll be totally honest. I've been to the store and I didn't ask Jeff, hey, what you want anything from the store? And it was a great conversation where we both had to sit down and be like, Hey, we both caught ourselves in this situation, we're both family members, we are both roommates, but we're not gonna be roommates.

SPEAKER_02 12:15

Yeah, that was a decision that we had to make that like we didn't want to be in a roommate dynamic.

SPEAKER_06 12:20

Yeah, because that was a big relationship. We're not roommates, we're both brothers, yeah. And going to the store is a huge thing, yeah, to be able to like break through and not be roommates and be brothers, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:32

Yeah, and the roommate you're talking about, just to clarify, is usually roommates go and get their stuff by themselves.

SPEAKER_06 12:39

Yeah, correct. Yeah, correct. One one section in the pantry, one section in the fridge, and it's we're not sharing. Oh, we're not sharing. Yeah, right. So we're now we're brothers, we're going to the store for each other and say, hey, everything is a free game. Just know that next time you go to the store, you're it's all on you, and you're gonna get everything for the house, and it's for each other, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:01

And whatever I buy, you can have mine and mine is yours. And I think that's interesting.

SPEAKER_05 13:06

Do you think that that was a big hurdle? Oh, yeah, future is but I'm glad we overcome that.

SPEAKER_04 13:11

Yeah, yeah. Here's the question though Do you think that that hurdle was so important to both of you, or I should have said you, Ben? It was important. And I think it was important to Jeff, but I don't think he understood, right? Like, I don't know. Because you were just like trying to struggle through school and you're finding a lot of people.

SPEAKER_05 13:30

I was just trying to survive, you know. Just so it's just like a five percent, like out of everything, it was like a five percent.

SPEAKER_04 13:36

You pulled it out as priority. Yeah, because he just you just transferred back from Southern Oregon.

SPEAKER_07 13:41

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:41

You had a horrible roommate situation, like you said you were in during COVID. You said that you lost your communication, like society and communication being out because of COVID shutdown, you just like lost that ability to talk to people. Yeah, but thank God Ben recognized, aka you both of you recognized the fact that you needed to come together as a family.

SPEAKER_07 14:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:00

But do you think that that? I mean, obviously, I'm not giving myself kinos. But we growing up, we had dinner every single night together at the table, no TV, no phones, no social media, TV was off, music was on, or whatever in the background. And we literally forced everybody to sit down, and even if like girlfriends were over at the time, right? Like, I mean, not girlfriends or whoever you were, you know, your friend at the time. We were like, okay, I guess, you know, I guess Samantha has to come for dinner, even though I didn't like Samantha at the time and I didn't approve, I wasn't that person. Yeah, not that anybody nobody dated Samantha, by the way. I'm just being very base.

SPEAKER_06 14:42

Yeah, we we we would be at the dinner table.

SPEAKER_04 14:45

Yeah, everybody was at the dinner table.

SPEAKER_06 14:46

Yeah, and at that time and still do, but I work nights. So when I on my shift, I would go to shift, and then my days off, we would make it very, very prone that hey, on our days off, let's be at the dinner table and just or if Jeff got home late. Or if Jeff got home late, we sent him a plate and he would eat a dinner at the table and we'd all sit at the table while he ate dinner.

SPEAKER_04 15:06

See, that's good. And I think that do you think that growing up with that foundation helped that?

unknown 15:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:11

Sorry, Jeff Biden.

SPEAKER_05 15:12

Yeah, it it it was great, but I I should have been thankful for you and Katie making those whole meal homemade cooked meals because I was so fed up at work and just I didn't have the capacity and decompress. It just I didn't sometimes I did that, sometimes I would make something, but it's just again, I was like not thinking of like like what you liked or like what Ben liked, and it kind of kind of disappointing me. I was also bursting her out of her shell too, to be like, we'll see what she liked too. But I I should have been in the moment, and again, it just I think you did the best you could with what you had at that time.

SPEAKER_04 15:52

Yeah, what was what was what was it what was the one thing that you would make?

SPEAKER_05 15:57

I don't remember. Oh tortellinian sausage. Tortellinian sausage, that's what I would make.

SPEAKER_04 16:02

Tortellinian sausage wasn't with a raviolis.

SPEAKER_05 16:04

Ravioles were sausage and pesta. That was the one meal you would make all the time. Yeah, because it's the only meal that I honestly liked.

SPEAKER_01 16:11

Yeah, but like you would you would you did start to like try to meal prep for work and like your lunches and stuff.

SPEAKER_04 16:17

So well that I think that had a lot of your guys' influence because Ben was on you about saving money, yeah. Yeah, what do you want to need? What do you do in now?

SPEAKER_06 16:28

Come on, let's start packing watches.

SPEAKER_05 16:31

Like, what's with the impulsiveness of buying stuff and stuff like that? That's also like it's more of like a another story at a time, it's more likely a coping mechanism and stuff like that. With your what? With shopping and and then stuff like that. I used to be and I used to be, I love paper, I love texture, I love it's different things, right? It's again narrow neurodivergence. I like texture, I like feeling, I like just feeling different textures and stuff.

SPEAKER_04 16:57

So it's like feeling the different kinds of fabrics, the receipts are all the closed different kinds of the different Amazon packaging. So what's it?

SPEAKER_07 17:08

Yeah, it's yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:10

So what's one thing that you know, like you guys learned about each other, learned about yourself, and then learned about each other, right? Like so Kate, you were you weren't engaged at the time to Ben. We knew that you were going to eventually, you know, like that's the time, like you are going to be. But like it's interesting because I, as a parent, could see you differently, living with you guys differently, right? I would come and flirt, but I you know, like flutter in, and I wasn't really like parenting at the time. Yeah, I would cook dinner and I'm you know, and I would take over, but then I would leave. So was it hard to adjust when I was there and then gone? And then what was one right? And then what was one thing that you were surprised about yourself, or one thing like I don't know, like you spent three years together. Did it get easier? Did it get harder?

SPEAKER_06 18:06

It got you got it, it got easier.

SPEAKER_04 18:07

I mean, it's a several times when Jeff was making pasta and Katie was trying to fit into her wedding dress, so that was hard.

SPEAKER_06 18:14

First, the first couple months was amazing. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_03 18:17

Katie was always Katie was always amazing. You're always you're always skinny. You're always too skinny anyway. But the point being is the first couple months was hard. It was just a learning curve.

SPEAKER_06 18:28

It was a learning curve because going from where I was in college, graduated, her and I both graduated. She graduated the semester before me. So we both moved in right around the same time to where we You also were just getting into your career. I was just getting into the career, but with Jeff, like I would expect to he was coming home from Southern Oregon and living with roommates and being like, okay, I know how to live with roommates. After we had just done it for four years, after we just done it for four years, and being able to adapt and be able to live with roommates and be able to know that dynamic. But I didn't know that he was in the circumstances that he was in with the poor roommate because I always had great roommates except for one.

SPEAKER_02 19:17

But yeah, kick rocks.

SPEAKER_06 19:19

Yeah. Um but being my brother, it was that just that dynamic change of being able to be hey, we are roommates, but we're not roommates, we're brothers. But we're not the 18-year-olds that we're not the 18-year-olds that graduate high school, also. So that couple months had to change and had to adapt through that. And once once we figured out that, it was smooth rolling, and then you would come into town and him and I would freaking pound rocks and pop balloons and release balloons because we're so happy because we don't have to buy dinner and but yeah, I mean it was it was great. I mean, it was the first couple months was pretty rocky.

SPEAKER_04 20:06

I would say it was great because I I mediated Junior guys a couple times.

SPEAKER_02 20:10

Well, yeah, I feel like when you were there, I got a glimpse of like them growing up. I I saw more of the brother dynamic when you were there than like us all like as like peers. Yeah. Like I saw more of the like, oh, I see why he punched you in the head playing Uno growing up. I see that now. I get it.

SPEAKER_06 20:31

I did do that.

SPEAKER_03 20:32

It was on my head. Sorry, now like who broke whose hand?

SPEAKER_06 20:37

Jeff broke my hand on the skull with his skull with his head, yeah. And I also choked you out on the I punched him. I well, I punched him and he turned around.

SPEAKER_04 20:47

And I was mid-punched. My children never went at it, but this is the first time I was crazy never anyway. Yeah. All right.

unknown 20:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:54

Yeah, that's crazy. That was I shouldn't use the word crazy, sorry. But the fact of the matter is that was just insane. Well, no, that's good that so when I came into town, I know y'all were on the best behavior because I was there. Yeah. Right. And everybody's like, okay, mom's cooking and we're gonna be acting perfect. Yeah, I understand that, right? Oh, I looked forward to it. Yeah. Because you knew that he would, meaning Jeff, yeah, would help with the dishes without being reminded. Yes. Right? Right. And and you know, whatever.

SPEAKER_05 21:29

I just did not like textures.

SPEAKER_04 21:31

I know you don't like it.

SPEAKER_05 21:32

But you don't like the intuition.

SPEAKER_06 21:33

You also did have that traumatic event in college to where you did stick your hand in the soapy water and cut your hand. Yeah, glass. So it makes sense. So I also try to make Katie understand that to where he doesn't like textures and all that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_04 21:52

We don't put knives in soapy water to be able to do it.

SPEAKER_05 21:54

Or cheap ass glass from Amazon, so and so from like college. Yeah. Or just don't be a dishwasher. It was both a knife and glass.

SPEAKER_04 22:05

Why would you have a broken?

SPEAKER_05 22:06

It was some stupid Halloween party at my college that I went up to, and my roommates were stupid. Sounds like you were doing the I was older. I was four years older than them. Sounds like you weren't drunk enough.

SPEAKER_06 22:20

I was I had a hangover.

SPEAKER_04 22:22

No, you didn't drink at the time. So no, that's fine. Well, I guess that the other thing is as interesting as I'm looking at my notes for what I want to talk about is Okay. It must have been very difficult for you. Not I think, well, I don't, you know what? I probably I honestly didn't really think about it beforehand. But here's the thing really, yeah, here's the thing. You went from kind of moving, living with him with all of his baseball because he was on the baseball team at a university up in Northern California, and you live with four other guys on the baseball team. Yes. And so you were there periodically throughout the week, like maybe four nights out of the sun. And so you you actually you actually lived athlete life, which they're disgusting. Yes. They're horrible. Yes. Right? I mean, I have three. We're not that bad. No, the the shower was like a mile. They're disgusting. I have two athletes that Logan and you, yeah, yeah. Like I remember riding from the inside out when you were like the cleats? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:22

Dead bodies.

SPEAKER_04 23:23

Yeah, right. And so, I mean, coming from just having a sister, right? And then so I guess that kind of like prepared you for Jeff, who, by the way, is super clean, like cleanliness, clean, whatever, right? And the room was always clean. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 23:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:40

I mean, granted, you probably like you weren't good at chores because you didn't think about it, even though you should have, but whatever. But how was I coming into that dynamic with the brothers with us gone? Yeah. And how was that with you? And then Ben, how important or what kind of support? I mean, you said you talked to her about it and she understood, but I always went to Ben first.

SPEAKER_02 24:08

If something was bothering me, I would go to Ben first. Because I knew that I couldn't just like come at you for like something if I wasn't understanding like your intentions or why you were doing something. So if I was bothered by I don't know, old bread that I'm like, well, I didn't buy it, so I don't want to throw it away. But there's mold, so this is irritating me. Ben would be like, no, but Ben would just be like, Throw it away. Just throw it away. Like it's out of sight, it's out of mind for him. Like he's just not, he's not, you know, leaving it there to bother anybody. So it's like I wasn't ever anticipating that it was gonna be like hard. Like I didn't go into it being like, oh, I have to live with Jeff.

SPEAKER_06 25:00

No, and I could always tell when she would get irritated and stuff like that. But me being the older brother and being his protector, like you were saying, because I've always gone into that role of wanting to protect you.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 25:13

And not really having to protect Logan, but like you because of how you are, and like not everybody understanding who you are. Until they really know you. Until you until they really know you. And me knowing who you are, and me getting frustrated with everybody that doesn't really know you and wanting to just bash you and everything. I'm like, I wanted to be your protect. I'm like, just out of the side, out of mind. Like, just yeah, if it irritates you, then just throw it away. Take it from the cabinet to the trash can. Like, it's very simple steps. It's only a couple steps. And she's like, Well, he could do it. I go, Well, it's out of side of my mind, it's not really on his radar, just irritates you, and and it was that learning dynamic and that shift to be able to like learn and be able to transition into that.

SPEAKER_05 26:00

This is still a problem in my apartment. I just found mold on three different bread things. I'm learning right now. Okay, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 26:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 26:07

In all bags, I'm still trying to learn this.

SPEAKER_01 26:10

No, but like you know, four loaves of bread that are all molding. I have four loaves of bread.

SPEAKER_05 26:15

I pretty much bought a loaf of bread yesterday, and I think I think it's going to be a mold by by Sunday. God damn it.

SPEAKER_02 26:23

It falls to the back of the pantry. I get it. But it was more so like I knew the conversations I would have to have. I just my biggest hurdle was figuring out how to have them. Or like, how can I say this in a way that is going to like make sense, but also not like I never wanted to like come at you crazy. I mean, my sister, I'll I'll go at her. I don't care. That's I don't care. I'll say what I want. But you were someone that I had to like learn how to talk. And even with Ben, like at that point, we had been together so long, like I didn't have a thought about a single thing that would come out of my mouth to this man. I still don't. I don't care.

SPEAKER_04 27:07

Yeah, you don't. Yeah, it's good. But then, but then you were the same way, Jeff. Right? So, like Ben and Kate would do things that you would call me and go, Yeah. I don't understand why. I don't know. Yeah. Like you know, just trivial stuff.

SPEAKER_06 27:23

It's the changing dynamics between the two of them. Because for him and I, I would have no problem telling you, and I know you would have no problem telling me, but it's the living dynamic between the two of them.

SPEAKER_04 27:33

Because you were like, I don't want her to hate me if I say this, or I don't want Ben to hate me. Yeah. But this is, you know, I'm like, well, just have a conversation with both of them. And then you would. Yeah. Right? And so when Ben talked to you about, hey, the moldy bread or whatever you're like, okay, that's great. But whatever. This is not normal growing pains, I think. That's my point is even though, like, this is brother, whatever, I can guarantee you several people out here, hopefully, if they're listening, if we hope maybe we've earned jail on you know, podcast paperworks or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 28:05

That this happens with everybody, any living situation, any living situation situation. And we had had situations with his college roommates, yeah. Like, dude, do we do we want fruit flies? No, we don't throw it away. But it was learning how to talk to Jeff, and Ben knew how to talk to Jeff. Yeah, so I had to, and as I got to know you, it got so much easier.

SPEAKER_06 28:26

Yeah, and in the beginning phases, that was the biggest thing because I would always have a conversation with you because she would always come to me. Yeah, like why don't you go talk to him?

SPEAKER_04 28:34

Like, I I think because you two live together with Kate, the three of us, the three of you, the three of us. I'm me and my friend, whoever that my friend in my head. Now, the three of you have this, I don't know, it's a different foundation, an experience together, right? Where the three of you, like you said, you now are comfortable talking to Kate about stuff all the time, and you talk to Kate all the stuff. And granted, you know this is a special thing, and even though it was painful going through it, and you all like Ben, you would call me and like Kate, you would have conversations with me when everybody was at work and I was down and we'd have conversations and I would try and say, Okay, we'll just talk with it, it'll be it'll be good. And going through that, now coming out the other end, having that understanding. What do you what did you what do you think is like the takeaway from like where your relationship is now? Because both all three of you are very close. And and it was evident at like the holiday season, how three the three of you are are close, and I just I feel my heart aches because I wish Logan could be part of this dynamic. Yeah, that's why he has to move out here. That's all yeah, he has to move out here. Yeah, gotta move out here, Logan. Hear me when you hear this. All of you, just bring everybody out. It's okay, we'll put you up somewhere. I don't know. We'll figure it out. We'll figure it out. Story for you.

SPEAKER_06 30:00

We have a guest room in our house.

SPEAKER_04 30:02

But the point, what the point being is No, but what in closing remarks, what do you think? How did you grow as a person, Jeff? How did you grow as a person, Kate? How did you grow as an individual, you know, as an individual person, Ben? Like, what do you think this experience of living together with somebody, with everybody with all their quirks, whatever it would be, helped shape you? I don't know. I just think that now I look at you guys and you guys are close and you guys can like Kate. I think you're more comfortable now where you can tell Jeff, you know, like fuck you, excuse my language. No, absolutely the middle of it.

SPEAKER_05 30:41

And you're honestly, I'm like, all right, cool. Yeah, another thing I'm gonna change in the world.

SPEAKER_04 30:44

You go, okay, whatever. Like, I love you, and you go and you hug her and you laugh and you're like, whatever. Yeah, right? Like takes real strength to change. So, what do you think? Like, what what I mean?

SPEAKER_06 30:54

It's it's I've seen so much change in Jeff from where we started to be almost like living together and like working through that. Um, as far as like what I've learned through it, is that number one, me being 27 with a wife and a kid, I will never have a roommate again and a brother living with me. But I have no problem having you just offered Logan your affair.

SPEAKER_04 31:21

Besides unedited.

SPEAKER_06 31:24

That's fair. But I will have if Jeff ever wants to come up, he is more than more than welcome to come up because I know that he is always welcome. Oh, yeah, it's an asterisk.

SPEAKER_00 31:33

Yeah. What?

SPEAKER_06 31:33

He's so cute. Seeing the growth that him and I both have had and Katie have had with each other over the last three years before we actually bought our house. It was amazing. Being able to like see him understand what it feels like to have like a true relationship in like maintaining the house, maintaining the chores, maintaining the bathtub. Being an adult to where he's able to go out by himself and have an apartment by himself and have a clean apartment, have an apartment with besides the three loaves of bread, but like be able to like cook his own meals and not eat out, especially by the end of us living together. Like we really were cooking and that's where like I didn't learn anything from it because I've grown and lived with it.

SPEAKER_02 32:23

I think you became more patient.

SPEAKER_06 32:25

Okay, I became more patient. I like it. That's happy life, happy life. Yeah, being able to see you grow is the best thing that I've was able to gain from it because you're able to like you've been on your own for the last almost two years. Like, you've had your own apartment, you're able to pay your own rent, you're able to pay on your utilities, you're able to go and just buy your own foods, and you're fucking doing it. Yeah, like that's the biggest thing that I could see. Just being able to like see how you've grown and grew up and how you started from where we started way back in the day before Katie was even a thing. Like, you have come such a long way.

SPEAKER_05 33:05

Appreciate that.

SPEAKER_06 33:06

Yeah, and the next time that I come on.

SPEAKER_04 33:08

Oh, yeah, we're gonna have to have you on because there's gonna be this other thing about you women helping you with dating. Yeah, the wingman. There's gonna be like an experiment. So, yeah, so so all of you people out here listening to the podcast, so Jeff had an incident with this girl on this dating app, and it was just we're gonna talk about it. It's gonna be the it's gonna be like episode, I don't know, and then the next episode is gonna be the experience of Ben and Jeff going out. So Ben's gonna be his wingman to kind of like, you know, show him and you know, kind of like be a narrator on social cues and things just to help him understand because this is something that is huge, and I'm sure everybody has this issue. Like, yeah, I'm glad I didn't grow up in the social media mate, mate, age, gotta be honest, right? Like I ran into your dad after high school, just ran into him, and we were not swipe left or swipe right because I'm telling you, I don't know my left and my right, so I'd be swiping left and thinking I don't like him, but then somebody would call me and like, I didn't match, I didn't like you, I don't know my left or my right.

SPEAKER_06 34:06

Yeah, Kate and I met on thing. That's how him and I both her and I both swipe right. So that's what it was. I still quite like, so here's the thing though. Interesting dynamic.

SPEAKER_04 34:17

We don't know what we're gonna do. I don't know. Episode four, who knows what that's gonna have, happen. I don't know, we're gonna talk about it. What the next topic's gonna be, but we wanted to introduce Ben and Kate because they're going to be guests again with stuff more than this, but because this is a family dynamic, and we're gonna grow together and we're gonna talk about stuff because we're not alone out there. We're gonna laugh about it, and we're gonna laugh through the uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_06 34:43

We're gonna laugh and we're gonna.

SPEAKER_04 34:44

Thank you for coming.

SPEAKER_06 34:45

You're welcome.

SPEAKER_04 34:46

And uh yeah, so we'll see you next week, everybody.