10. The Creative Strategy Behind Building Brands That Last (with Ellyse Bollinger)

What actually makes a brand stick? It's not a pretty logo. It's not a trendy color palette. And it's definitely not copying whatever's blowing up on Pinterest this week.

Ellyse Bollinger is the founder and creative director of ENC — the non-agency agency. In this conversation, we get into why so many brands fall emotionally flat, what she looks at first when assessing whether a brand has a real backbone, and the two things that hold most founders back from building something that can outlast them.

We also talk about the very real ROI of creativity (yes, one client quadrupled their revenue within two weeks), why the word "just" is basically a four-letter word, and how founders can show up in ways that don't require talking to the camera on Instagram stories.

If you care about building a brand that's in it for the long haul, this one's for you.

What We Cover:

[01:20] The first thing every founder should do after listening: zoom out and find your secret sauce [03:32] Why messaging is a muscle — and when you need outside eyes to flex it [05:01] What "non-agency agency" actually means and what traditional agencies get wrong [07:29] Can you scale a high-touch, boutique creative business? Ellyse's honest answer [08:45] Is creativity just a buzzword? Why it's actually an innately human skill AI can't replicate [13:27] The client who quadrupled revenue within two weeks of a site relaunch [16:02] "Brands need to feel something before they sell something" — what that actually means [19:34] Why almost every founder says the same thing when asked about showing up (and what to do instead) [21:17] One trillion ways to show up as a founder — none of them require talking to camera [22:39] The case for owning your distribution: email, Substack, blog, and why Instagram could disappear tomorrow [24:34] How much of your brand should actually be you — and where founders go wrong [25:20] Death Grip Syndrome: the #1 founder struggle Ellyse sees over and over [27:03] You're the heart, not the whole body — why your brand needs to exist without you [30:02] Three ordinary things Ellyse wishes brands would stop doing immediately [31:55] The very first thing Ellyse looks at when auditing a brand (hint: it's not the logo) [36:41] What to ask — and watch out for — when hiring a creative partner for the first time [40:22] The superpower she was told to dial back (and why she's finally done listening) [44:52] The belly-dancing grandma who first sparked her love of creativity

Quotes Worth Saving:

"Words, messaging — that's always the first thing I look at and always the first thing I'm going to suggest working on."

"Creativity is innately human. The only way to truly feel creativity that is goosebumps-central is when you are connecting, exploring, chatting — living a human life."

"There's actually a lot of ordinary magic that exists if you allow yourself to just see it."

Connect with Ellyse: Instagram: @ellysenichole (personal) & @encagency (agency) Website: encagency.com

Your Turn:

Ellyse's challenge: Look around and notice things.

Seriously. You don't need a new elixir or a new strategy or a new shiny thing — you just need to open your eyes. The most allergic-to-the-ordinary moments come when you're present enough to actually notice them.

If ordinary has ever felt suffocating, you’re in the right place.
Follow Allergic to the Ordinary for conversations on identity, ambition, and designing a life that doesn’t play it safe.

Hosted by @jamiegasparovic

A Studio Gaspo production

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Within, I think it was like two weeks of the site going live, they had quadrupled their revenue, paid for the service that we did. It was just one of those reminder moments that, yes, an investment to do something quality can be a lot. Really great design is worth it.

SPEAKER_05 0:23

Today's guest is Elise Nicole, founder and creative director of ENC, the non-agency agency. Built on the belief that brands should feel something before they sell something. Elise is one of those rare creative minds who can take the jumble that's in a founder's brain, decode it, and hand it back to the brand that finally makes sense. In this episode, we get into why so many brands fall flat emotionally, and the very first thing Elise looks at when she's assessing whether a brand has a real backbone. We talk about the actual ROI of creativity when it's attacked by strategy, why the word just is basically a four-letter word in both of our worlds, and how founders can start showing up in ways that don't require talking to the camera on Instagram stories. If you care about building a brand that's in it for the long haul, you're gonna love this one. Let's get allergic to the ordinary with Elise. Elise, welcome to Allergic to the Ordinary. I am so happy to have you here today. You are one of my favorite creative brains out there. I am truly obsessed with everything that you do. So I'm really excited to talk to you today.

SPEAKER_01 1:35

Well, that's just the the nicest intro. Thank you. I can't wait. And I just the that when you sent me the name of the podcast, I was like, yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:44

Yes. Well, you are one of the first people that came to mind when I decided I was doing this because you are allergic to the ordinary. A hundred percent. I feel like all the messaging you put out, all of the brands that you create, it is just the epitome of allergic to the ordinary. So I'm so excited to have you on. And I want to ask you something really actionable up front. So if a founder is listening to this and they want to make their brand more intentional, what is one really concrete thing they could do right after they finish listening to this to take a step in that direction?

SPEAKER_01 2:21

I think, I know, I shouldn't say I think I know. The best thing really to do when you are living and breathing your own brand all day, every day, is to take a real intentional zoom out and ask yourself, can you answer the question that a random person may ask when they land on your brand, whether it's on Instagram, on your website, you know, even out in the world when you run into someone in an elevator? If someone were to ask you, what's your secret sauce? What makes you unique? Would you immediately be able to just spew those words without having to like fumble or rethink about it? I think so often we jump five million steps ahead and we haven't quite ironed out the why and how to articulate it in a way that actually feels like something and isn't just like a rehearsed chat bot.

SPEAKER_05 3:17

Yeah, that makes sense. And so if someone is like, oh shit, I can't actually do that, how are you coaching them to think about that? And what do they need to be discovering in themselves or in their brand to be able to give that really quick elevator pitch?

SPEAKER_01 3:32

You know, I think messaging and copy and storytelling is something that can be a muscle that you flex, but it's also often just really helpful to have an outside perspective. I think, you know, we we all kind of operate in our routines every day. You know, we think about when we go into our closet, we may pick the same five things together always, but sometimes you just need a fresh perspective to be like, maybe have you thought about it like this?

SPEAKER_05 4:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:00

So in an ideal scenario, I feel like getting someone, whether it's a friend, you know, you hire someone to ask if they have 30 minutes and just like word vomit all of the things that you do with your business and ask them, okay, what did you hear from that? Or what would be your takeaway? Or what felt clunky? And I feel like that's a really nice, like low-hanging, easy entry point without spending, you know, dollars and just starting to have those conversations and pulse if what you think you're saying is actually resonating with someone's.

SPEAKER_05 4:35

I think that's great advice. And it is really hard, no matter how good you are at even doing it for other people, even you guys. That's what you do. I'm sure you need some outside perspective because there's that whole you can't see the label from inside the jar situation. And I think that's so true. So I really like that advice. Go word vomit to someone, ideally in your demographic that you're trying to target and see what they take out of that. You call NC a non-agency agency, which I love. And what is it in a traditional agency that you're kind of rebelling against when you went out and created your own thing?

SPEAKER_01 5:12

Well, it's funny because I'm sitting at the office and on our big windows that face the main street, it says the non-agency agency. We we do things a little differently. And I don't know what year it was in the seven-year mark that we landed on this, but it just it hit for me because you know, I'm never someone where I want to bash how anyone else is doing anything. I think what I want to emphasize is just our approach. And I think what makes us the non-agency agency is we are a team of people that deeply psychotically care about the humans that we're helping. And I think in a more traditional large-scale corporate work setting, you know, you don't maybe have as much opportunity to seep your hands and your brain and your heart into every single aspect of what someone is building. And so when I think about building and creating and cultivating and keeping alive this non-agency agency, the the big ethos for me is just making sure that when we have the opportunity to support someone to get something out into the world or rebrand something out into the world, they feel like they have deeply met every single person on this team. There's six women who are all absolutely insanely talented, and that they feel seen, they feel heard, they have this moment of like, oh, like they got it.

SPEAKER_05 6:45

They get me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:46

Yeah. Because I think so often, you know, we it's it's expensive to to run a business. It's expensive to have payroll and hire people and do marketing and all the things. And, you know, time after time after time, I had people come to me and say, you know, they went to an agency, they hired outside help, and they hated everything, they wasted all their money and they left so disappointed. And I'm just like, there has to be a better way. There just has to be.

SPEAKER_05 7:11

Do you think there's a way to scale that personal touch? That's something I think about a lot. Like, what makes you guys special is that you're really high touch and you're smaller in boutique and you really care. Is there a way to scale that, do you think? Or is the answer no?

SPEAKER_01 7:29

I mean, I'll I'll speak to it in the sense of how I've I've scaled in the last seven years and we're still very much boutique, but it started as just one and then it was two, then it was three, and now it's six. And if anything, I feel like we are at this perfect sweet spot, I think, between that six to ten range, where and that's where I personally feel like I thrive, where I want to stay. Um I think there is a way to scale intentionally, and also I think it depends what the the end goal is, you know. If if the goal is to, you know, reach every single person on the planet, then you're gonna have to sacrifice some things. But if your goal is to, you know, continue to create really meaningful work and decide what you as the founder want to still be like holding and touching, then, you know, then the size will fluctuate with that.

SPEAKER_05 8:23

Yeah. So you're not interested in scaling a massive agency, regardless. You're still pretty involved with the creativity and all of that for all of your projects, correct? Oh, yeah. Yes. So something that I am really trying to rewrite in my industry, but also just in general, is this idea that creativity is not valuable. I don't know if you've come across that, but I feel like a lot of people think, oh, creativity is this fluffy thing, it's acute extra. What do you say to people or founders about what the value of creativity is, especially when there's strategy baked into it?

SPEAKER_01 9:04

Oh, that's such a good when you said that I like got the full full bod goosies because I like that. Um I think creativity is one of those very buzzy words. And I think especially I've seen, of course, over the last 15 years of just being in this industry of creativity, but also over the last seven years of of agency work, and how creativity and creative fields have just expanded and exploded, and how everyone has now become an ec a self-appointed expert in the world. Self-appointed, yes, is the word. Yeah, yeah. And I think there's something to, you know, being in this new era of the world where there is just more access to our fingertips. And in a way, that's fantastic. You know, we can grow faster, we can expand smarter, we can design more intentionally. But I feel like creativity as a whole is something that's just innately in you. And it's it's certainly something that you can, it's it's a great muscle flex that you can just practice. I can't tell you how many times a week people ask myself or anyone on the team, are you guys worried about AI taking over your jobs? And I think that's an incredible segue into the human touch of creativity. Um, you know, you can prompt chat or any of the design or editing platforms with something. But the problem that I think isn't honed in enough on is that creativity to me is absolutely an innately human aspect. And the only way to practice creativity or truly feel creativity that is goosebump central is typically when you are connecting, exploring, chatting, pitching, living a human life. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that.

SPEAKER_05 11:00

Yeah. Minor details. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 11:03

Yeah, I totally agree with that. And I feel like anyone, I say this to designers all the time in my industry. If you think AI is going to take your job, you don't understand what you do, quite honestly. Because again, I think there's a meme that says if people could just say what they wanted, just prompt something to say what you want. And people don't know, you know, and it's everyone who's a designer kind of laughs. Same with you guys, because you really have to dig in, and people are saying words, but they don't necessarily know how language relates to visuals and how it all ties together. So I think there's a lot that needs to be done on that side of things too, in our jobs.

SPEAKER_01 11:47

Yeah. I think every person on the planet is going to respect or value human creativity differently. And to to someone that's trying to get something out yesterday and is coming to us for a quick logo or quick pattern or just this.

SPEAKER_05 12:05

And I'm like, just is my least favorite. I hate that.

SPEAKER_01 12:08

Oh, this is a shout out to the entire ENC team because they know that word is my biggest pet peeve.

SPEAKER_05 12:14

Saying there is no just, you don't understand. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:17

Yeah. So it's, you know, it's finding the right people that value your creativity. And and creativity is is in my mind a secret sauce. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_05 12:31

A hundred percent. And I think when it's applied to other brands, it's a secret sauce for them too. And you're taking your creativity and applying it to other people's businesses to give them a leg up, right?

SPEAKER_01 12:43

Yeah. Yeah. And I I also feel like day in and day out, what we do here is is therapy in the form of design and branding, because so often, you know, like we said, people are living and breathing in their own kind of ecosystem. Yeah. And it's this vulnerable space where you say, okay, I'm gonna open all of this up wide. I'm gonna let people scoop inside my brain and extract all the things, and then we're gonna present that to you in a mirror. And it can be scary and jarring and enlightening and, you know, every single word under the sun. And that right there, I think, is what's creative. That's where we can just expand how people think.

SPEAKER_05 13:27

Yeah, I totally agree with that sentiment. And do you have a story of a client who has come back to you and been like, oh my gosh, I really see the actual business ROI of this creativity exercise that we did and of hiring you guys?

SPEAKER_01 13:44

Yes. I mean, over the last seven years, I think that has happened countless, countless, countless, countless times. Just last year, or maybe it was the beginning of this year, we had kind of rebuilt an entire website platform for someone after they had piecemealed it and hired people out and had people email them that they could save their SEO. And everything was just so funky and debunked and just shit show.

SPEAKER_00 14:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:09

Um, so we kind of rebuilt this entire ecosystem with intentionality and understanding, okay, you have this site now, but how do we make sure it functions for you five years from now? What are you trying to grow into?

SPEAKER_00 14:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:24

And within, I think it was like two weeks of the site going live, they had quadrupled their revenue, paid for the service that we did. I mean, it was just, it was one of those reminder moments that yes, an investment to do something quality can be a lot. Really great design is worth it. And it will set you up for success over and over and over again.

SPEAKER_05 14:53

Quick pause. You're building a life that's allergic to the ordinary, so why settle for a home that plays it safe? If you're creating a home you want to be obsessed with and want zero builder grade regrets, Studio Gasto is who you call early. We've spent over a decade designing high-stakes construction projects, custom builds, gut rentos, event boutique commercial spaces, and we're experts at delivering the creative vision and the execution to back it. We create identity-driven environments that feel like who you're becoming, not who everyone else already is. If that hits, go to studiogaspo.com to learn more. Yes, I so agree with that. Obviously, again, we are in different industries, but I feel like it's it's the same thing. It's the exact same thing. Having the piecemeal put together house is the same deal where you're like, oh, I kind of got these all in a silo. I haven't thought about this holistically and with strategy and with the eye to the future of where am I going? So it's it's just so simple. Everything you're saying, I'm just like, yes, yes, yep. I agree, agree. Amazing. So something that you talk about is that brands need to feel something before they sell something. Can you unpack that a little bit? What do you mean by that? How are you digging into brands and what they feel?

SPEAKER_01 16:16

Yeah. I think it's it's no shocker that there is a new brand, product, service, sparkly thing dropping out in the world every single day. And, you know, we we live in a world of abundance. We live in a world of Amazon Prime where we can get anything we want in two hours, two days, five minutes. Uh, I think, again, one of our secret sauce kind of deep-rooted elements is finding a way to kind of sift through all of the gunk and really getting super crystal clear on number one, why a founder, why, you know, a C CEO decided to take this crazy leap, change their lives, you know, become slightly psychotic and run a business. Um, and to me, I think what always needs to start, whether it's a a company or a brand that has never existed out in the world, or even a company or brand that's, you know, five, ten years in, but it's lost some of the luster, we have to come back to the human humans that decided it was a good idea to begin with. And I think that's what comes to the scaling thing. I think sometimes when we grow and we grow and we grow, we can lose touch, we can lose that tether with what made us decide in our sweet little brains that we were going to start this thing. And people feel things when we read, see, connect with other people, you know, and yes, maybe we're selling a brow product, but if we hear why the founder decided to formulate with this texture and this material and this eco for like that's what's going to create feeling, not just seeing beautiful packaging, which that's absolutely part of the mix. But yeah, just we have to get people to trust us. And trust is something that comes from being vulnerable and being real and just sharing why in the world you decided to be a crazy person and start start the things.

SPEAKER_05 18:25

Yeah. So going back to that storytelling, really, right? I think that's so crucial. And it's something I wrote down three words last year that kept coming up everywhere in different contexts for me. And storytelling was one of them. And now I feel like it's everywhere, but I do think that's such a crucial thing to get people to give a shit about your brand. It's like, I don't care about your brow wand, I care about you, the human. Tell me about that, and I'm bought in.

SPEAKER_01 18:54

Yeah. Well, and I think, you know, this 2025. I was about to say 2026, mentally like 2025 was very much our year of founders. It was our year that we supported countless. I think Jess tallied it up, and maybe it was like 48 brands. And I'm I think like 75, 80% of them were founders. And um so often founder comes to us and they're like, okay, I don't know what to do, all the things. And I'm like, well, how do you feel about showing up? And I kid you not, wish I had a little recording, but every single founder says the same thing. They don't really want to be in the spotlight, they don't want to do it, they don't know what to say. That and I I get it, you know, and I think there's a difference between being a cocky micromanager, showy, flashy, it's all about me, boss. And there's something to being being that person that becomes that catalyst, that connector. So that way you can again share why you decided to do the thing, why someone else should care. You know, what what fluffs and mistakes and lessons did you learn along the crazy roller coaster ride? Because those connections really I mean, it's what gets people in your ecosystem and staying and and becoming fans and purchasers and subscribers, and yeah, it's just people want to be a part of good people's lives, period.

SPEAKER_05 20:31

Yeah, I totally agree with that. Is there something that you say to founders that are telling you, oh, I don't really want to be the face, I don't want to show up? Are you coaching them through that? As, you know, you said why it's important, but what are you doing to help them actually do it and show up?

SPEAKER_01 20:47

Well, I think anyone at the office could attest to the fact that I'm kind of just the the cheerleader of um of the crew. I think that is just basically my job. Therapist and cheerleader. That's that's my that's my duo. Um, and I think it's, you know, you have to acknowledge where people are at. It can't be like a zero to a hundred situation. If people are like, oh my God, I don't want to show my face, I'm so self-conscious, all the things, then okay, maybe we're thinking about creating some really cool, you know, storytelling through voiceovers, and we're kind of massaging our way into showing up there versus okay, I'm setting up my tripod and I've got my light and I'll, you know, talking straight to the camera. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think there's one trillion ways to show up as a founder. It doesn't have to be cookie cutter, it doesn't have to be black and white. It's what are the baby steps that feel maybe slightly scary, but that's good. That means you're on to something new, but not so daunting or it's paralyzing and you're not gonna do it.

SPEAKER_05 21:46

Yeah, that is great advice. I've talked to a lot of designers recently that are terrified of showing up on stories on social media and the same thing where they're like, I know I need to, but it just is so uncomfortable. And I'm kind of like, well, get over it. It's yeah, it's good to be uncomfortable. You gotta do it. But I really like that advice of pick a different format. You could do B-roll of you where you're not talking or looking directly at the camera and then do a voiceover. That's great. Or put text on screen of your thoughts so you're still showing up in this really human way, but it's not as daunting as okay, I'm staring at my camera and saying things.

SPEAKER_01 22:23

Yeah. And also I think we put so much emphasis on Instagram that it is the end all be all. And yes, it absolutely needs to be a masterpiece of this puzzle that is just getting a brand out in the world consistent consistently.

SPEAKER_00 22:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:39

But there's also so many other beautiful ways. You can you have this beautiful thing that's actually owned in yours, and it's called email. And you know, it's it's a way that you can more intentionally, honestly, one-to-one talk to your people.

SPEAKER_00 22:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:55

Um, you know, when we think about Instagram, we're just kind of throwing all the spaghetti out there and hoping it sticks for some people. Whereas, you know, email, you can segment all of the different individuals that are in your ecosystem, whether they're just brand lovers, whether they're buyers, whether they're uh clients, whatever have you, and find really beautiful ways as the founder, as the owner to speak to them. You could start a Substack, you could have a blog. There, there's so many beautiful ways to just continue to show up. And Instagram should absolutely be part of it, but it should not be the only thing that you're doing.

SPEAKER_05 23:31

Yes, great point. And on email, people actually see what you're saying. You know, Instagram is so disheartening sometimes with you have so many followers, and then five people see your story. Like, okay, cool, all of that effort. So I like that reminder. There are other avenues that we can be putting ourselves out there and connecting with people. It's not just space to cam Instagram. Yeah. It's the end all be all.

SPEAKER_01 23:54

Who knows this crazy world? Instagram could be deleted tomorrow. And then what's your backup? You know, have you taken the drive, if you will, from Instagram and plugged it into something else? Because if not, I'm gonna stand on the mountaintop and scream for you to do that.

SPEAKER_05 24:09

Yeah. Okay, that's great advice. Everyone, go start an email list, start stuff that you own. That's not crazy Instagram. When you're helping someone build a brand, how much of that brand should come from the founder's identity versus the actual brand? What is that line between them expressing themselves, but it not just being, well, I like the color pink, so that's my brand color. How do you navigate that with founders?

SPEAKER_01 24:37

You know, one of these days, I'm gonna write a whole book on founders.

SPEAKER_05 24:42

I can't wait. I'm gonna buy it. I'm gonna pre-order it.

SPEAKER_01 24:45

Um, I feel like I've I've done a like master thesis on female founders specifically. Um, you know, we've been able to certainly support male entrepreneurs and CEOs, but female founders are just, you know, I I am one, you are one, we are just a different breed, and I think everyone approaches it differently. But I think the the two main things that I run into often that I think can be just a little bit of crunchiness that needs that like oil is one realizing that you are absolutely an integral, necessary, brilliant part of your brand. And also your brand needs to exist and thrive in the world if you had to step away. And I think as founders, we can be so death grippy, so micromanage-y. Um, and at the very beginning stages, when it's you and you're wearing every single hat, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. But you have to get to a point where you've set enough tone to allow the brand to explore and be nimble. And often in those seasons, when you've gotten to a point where like, I know where this brand is going to be, but I am going to let her actually have some legs to walk on. Yeah. That's where I feel like the magic happens. That's where it gets expansive. That's where it's less, this is my way and the way I say it, and this is the color I want. You know, that's where you bring in new fresh eyes and just different perspective to allow it to just be something outside of yourself. Yeah. Um, so I feel like it's the death grip syndrome is founder struggle number one. And then the second one, I feel like it probably goes a little bit hand in hand with that, but it's this ego trust era where, you know, I'm the founder and I've built this thing. So only I know how to do it. Yeah. And trouble delegating. Yeah, it's my way or the highway. And I think coming back to your original question, it's at the very, very beginning, if we're working with a founder from inception, my job is to really extract how much of this brand is literally you cloned versus how much of this brand is you trying to solve a problem that you experience and will be an extension of you. Yeah. Say 99% of the time people want it to be an extension of them. Right.

SPEAKER_05 27:17

Unless you're an influencer, probably, where literally you are the brand. Otherwise, yeah, you're not the brand.

SPEAKER_01 27:24

Yeah. You shouldn't be the brand. You should be the heart. You need a heartbeat to keep the body going, but you need all the other muscles and limbs and you know, all the things to just keep that going, but you need the heart to pump the blood. So I think it's just reminding founders, helping them reframe that this brand should always be an extension of them, but to also just loosen the grip a little bit or that heart of yours is going to have a heart attack.

SPEAKER_05 27:51

Yeah, and and then there will be no brand or anything. Yeah, that is another great reminder. I think that's a conversation I've had a lot too. You need to build this business to exist outside of yourself. If your business is just you, you don't have a business, you have a you. Even if you're not trying to scale to some crazy thing, even if you want to be involved in your business, I do. You know, I love what I do. I want to be really high touch, but I still want to have systems and all these things that exist outside of me. Because I also think, well, what if I got hit by a bus tomorrow? What if I'm laid up in the hospital? I need things to be able to keep existing without me pushing it down the road every second of every day.

SPEAKER_01 28:32

Yeah. I think a lot of founders I've worked with become the bottleneck and they start hating what they do. They resent it, they're stressed, they're burnt out. And there's certainly been seasons where I've been the bottleneck. But I feel like the only way to unclog or loosen up the bottleneck is to get to a point where whether you have inside support, outside support, or just human self-support to be like, okay, what are the handful of things that actually need to get done on a day-to-day basis that just have to thrive and function in order for this business to exist? How can I automate them? How can I simplify? How can I delegate? And then where as the founder do I really need to be putting my energy? Is it back into the business? Is it out outreach and connecting and speaking? You know, I think just yeah, just letting go.

SPEAKER_05 29:33

Yeah. Yeah. And letting go of everything else.

SPEAKER_01 29:35

Zoom out sometimes. I think we just we all are a little hunched back because we're all just like living. Yeah. We are. Sometimes you just gotta let yourself go a minute.

SPEAKER_05 29:47

Yes, that's so true. So I want to switch gears to a little bit of brand stuff. What are three super ordinary things that you wish brands would stop doing when you see these? You're like, oh my god, please stop with XYZ.

SPEAKER_01 30:02

You know, I think every quarter we we see this influx of like sameness. Um, and it's this blanket trend, style, design all over Instagram, all over Pinterest, all over emails. It and I think that's just the nature of of humanness. You know, we see something, we connect with it, and our immediate reaction is because it's something new and shiny, I need to take that and do that to my brand. Yeah. And I think what happens so often is we're constantly looking in the rear view mirror and we're losing our drive straight up, you know, you're not looking at your own quality. Yeah. Exactly. So I think in a broader sense, that's what I wish brands would do for their branding. Just because Susie Q and her line over here are doing this does not mean you need to copy and paste. Maybe think about, ooh, what am I liking about what she's doing? And then how can I implement that into the brand that I have created, that is my unique story and vision. At some point, aren't we all just gonna get so burnt out by seeing the same shit over I know we do, and I'm like, I don't, I don't want to see that anymore. So I think just yeah, stay in your lane. Look, look, look at the signs as you're driving and like, you know, pay attention to them and bring them back in to operate your vehicle, if you will. But um, but just don't get so distracted by all the new always.

SPEAKER_05 31:33

The shiny objects out the rear view mirror. Yes, exactly. Yeah, yeah, that's great advice. If you're looking at someone's brand, what are the first couple things that you're looking at to understand? Does this brand have a backbone, or is it just they slapped a pretty logo and there's not really substance there? How do you suss that out?

SPEAKER_01 31:55

Can you guess what my first thing is I look for?

SPEAKER_04 32:01

I want to say messaging.

SPEAKER_01 32:03

Yeah. But I don't know if that's right. Yeah. It's always, it's always. I, you know, the first thing when I land on a brand's website or social or packaging or whatever kind of the initial audit look under the hood is, I'm I'm reading to see if, as a, you know, bystander out in the world that has no idea what they're doing, do I get it? Number one. Do I get what they're trying to sell me, talk to me about? And if I'm already a few sentences in and I'm like, nope, I don't get it. Number one red flag. As human beings, we have very short attention span. So we need to very quickly be able to coming back to articulate what it is we offer, how we offer it, why we offer it. Well, there's a million people that offer it. So why should I, you know? Right.

SPEAKER_05 32:52

What's special about me?

SPEAKER_01 32:54

Yeah. And everyone's got their their special special sparkle. So it's like, how do we just take out some of the fluff and make sure that's super in your face? So to me, words messaging is always, always, always, always going to be the first thing I look at and always the first thing I'm going to be suggesting to be worked on. Because again, so often people will come to us, they're like, I need social media, I need social media, and everyone I've hired is failing. And all and I'm like, so what parameters have you given your social media? Yeah, yeah. And what's your messaging that you want them to use? What you want them to say, then they're also throwing spaghetti at the wall. So I I'm looking for words that make people feel something. Yeah. And then, of course, I'm looking for just a cohesive, connected brand. I think so often, you know, we'll look at someone's website, and then we'll look at their social, and then we'll look at their print. And it can look like five different brands. And that's yeah, and that's the shiny syndrome of I saw something here, I wanted to try that, and I saw something here. And I think so much of what running and owning and operating a brand that you want to feel consistent is restraint. You have to be able to stay in those parameters that you've created and please continue to evolve. I mean, ENC has evolved and changed visually tenfold, but you still will look at us, I hope, and say, Oh yeah, that's them.

SPEAKER_05 34:23

A hundred percent. And I think you guys do such a great job. Obviously, I'm like, obviously, you're amazing at it. It's what you do, but just looking through your Instagram, everything does not look the same. It doesn't look boring, but you can tell that it's you. There's a through line, there's a consistency, your messaging is amazing. Again, I have worked with you guys in a small capacity, but it just hit me. It's doing its job where you land on your site, you land on your Instagram, and that's talking to a certain person. And it's very obvious. And you guys just are, again, no surprise, but amazing at what you do and your own brand.

SPEAKER_01 35:01

Thank you. You know, it's, and I'm sure I know you can attest this because we've worked together, but you know, when we're constantly serving other people, it can be very easy for our own brands to kind of fall by the wayside. Yeah. Um, and we decided this year was going to be the year that we put ENC as our first client. And we have a lot of incredible, beautiful clients that get all of our attention. But if our brand isn't showing up first and foremost, then we won't have clients. Yes. And I think that's something we forget when we are in a service-based world.

SPEAKER_05 35:36

It's the whole oxygen mask thing. Like you gotta do your own thing first to serve anyone else. Yeah. It's so true.

unknown 35:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:43

And I think too having that internal pulse check every year, if you will, with your own brand of like, okay, over the last 365 days, how have I changed as a brand? You know, what have we tried? What have we hated? What have we loved? And then how are we working that into how we show up over the next 365 days? Because I think I I shared this when I for my birthday, and someone told me recently, man, you've changed. And I was like, thank you. I hope so.

SPEAKER_05 36:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:12

I don't ever want, I would hope I would never just continue to be the same me last year five minutes ago. You know, this it's it's okay to change. Change is good. Change is maybe uncomfortable, but change is the best thing that we can do for our sanity and our brains and our collective people.

SPEAKER_05 36:33

I totally agree with that sentiment. I think if you're not looking back at what you were doing two years, a year, three months ago, and being like, I've changed, I've evolved, then you're not growing enough in life. So yeah, I fully agree with that. If someone is looking to hire a creative partner for the first time, what kind of things should they be, questions should they be asking, or red flags should they be looking out for so that they don't end up disappointed with their outcome?

SPEAKER_01 37:05

So I mean, I guess I'll I'll come at this in what I typically would ask during a chemistry call. First, I think it's why did you decide to do this thing? What do you still love about your company, about your brand, and what pain points, what things are keeping you up at night, what is making you pull your hair out? And I think from a human looking to hire standpoint, those are the things that I would suggest really getting very clear about before you engage in kind of an initial conversation with someone.

SPEAKER_00 37:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:44

Because again, it's coming, I'm just using the social media thing. It's like I think everyone just their immediate thought is, I need someone for social media. Yes, because social media is a beast. We love it, we hate it, it's a pain in the ass. We need it, it's the business card of life, you know, all of that to say. But if we extract that even more, okay, why do I want to hire some for someone for social? Is it because I really need help with where I want to take my brand over the next five years? Or I hate creating content, or you know, I don't know what type of things to talk about, or you know, I actually am having a hard connecting the dots between email marketing, social, and my website. I think I would just suggest, again, do the zoom out. Get really clear with yourself about rather than we're doing a quick, you know, sticker slap to band-aid, solve an issue, there's likely reasons behind why it's a root cause. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What what are you actually hoping to gain out of bringing someone into your ecosystem? Yeah. And in order to have success with bringing someone into your ecosystem, you have to know what your end goal is.

SPEAKER_05 38:55

Yeah, that's really good advice. So I would say on the other side, if someone's trying to hire, if if an agency or a creative partner is not asking you those kinds of questions or they're just saying, oh yeah, what kind of logo do you want? And it feels very surface level, that's what you should run from, right?

SPEAKER_01 39:14

Yeah, 1000%. I think we are typically good judges of character. And if you listen to this little thing called your gut, you will know right away when you meet someone if they are a good fit for you. And we all have conversations out in the world on the daily, whether you're ordering a coffee, whether you're getting groceries. You can tell when you're talking to someone that actually wants to have a conversation with you versus wants to talk at you. Yeah. And I think if you're gonna bring someone into your company, into your brand, you want them to be someone that you can have real conversations with and isn't going to be like, okay, I'm gonna find a font, type it up, and that's a logo. And here's SEO, and that's just that's that's fake surface level BS. That's not gonna move the needle. It's not gonna make you feel connected to your brand or the person you're hiring.

SPEAKER_05 40:06

Yeah, that's a great point. All right, I've got some signature questions that I'm gonna ask you here. So I'm a big believer in that the thing that we feel like is weird about us or that we maybe have tried to hide in the past is actually one of our superpowers. What is yours? Such a good question.

SPEAKER_01 40:26

I I now tonight I'm gonna ask my husband this question because I feel this is a good one. I would say my overly emotionally feely, lovey, just like I want to know everything about a person side of myself. I think it is my kryptonite Achilles heel, and it is the greatest thing that exists inside of me and what allows me to have a team that cares as much as I do and have clients that feel seen. And I think over the years, there were so many people that were like, you know, you're functioning as a boss as too, you're you're too nice too. Yeah, all the things. And I'm like, you know, there were seasons where I was like, okay, maybe I should like ex extract a little bit of that. And finally, for the first time, I feel like I'm able to show up in my truest version of me with all of that abundance of love and feeling. And also I can give honest feedback and I can say no. And yeah, I think I'm here for all the emotions. I think it it makes you a person that people connect with.

SPEAKER_05 41:39

Yeah, and makes you great at your job because you want to know, you're curious, and you want to know about people, and that's what it takes to create a great brand for someone. So absolutely a superpower. What is one thing that most people think is normal that you do not subscribe to?

SPEAKER_01 41:58

Oh um first thing that came to mind was TikTok.

SPEAKER_05 42:03

But that's what it's it can be big, small, business, personal, whatever.

SPEAKER_01 42:09

Yeah, I mean, I know, and it that seems so silly, and I'm sure there's a million more things that are way more profound than that. But I feel like my whole team, they're like, you know, sending the recipe, and I'm just like, that's the one thing where I'm like, I'm just I'm not gonna I have one, I'm not gonna subscribe, I'm sorry. And just that's not that's not my lane.

SPEAKER_05 42:25

Okay, fair. I also do not, I don't have TikTok, and I'm like, I'm such a grandma, should I have one? But I'm fully on board with you. So amen to no TikTok right now. What's one thing that you're leaning into and one thing that you're really opting out of in your life?

SPEAKER_01 42:44

Leaning into this idea, the things that I want to get done, I will get done. First year in my my full year of life as a mom and a mom here at ENC. So trying to get very, very, you know, laser focused, if you will, is when I'm here, I'm here. When I'm home, I'm home. Yeah, I just leaning into just maybe a little bit more presence. I just want to be very present with where I'm at, you know, or if I'm at a coffee with someone, I am there. If I'm with my parents, I'm there. I think we think we are so important and the world is gonna end if we're not constantly available to everyone all the time. But we're all special, but we're not that special. So calling in a more presence and leaving behind this idea that I have to be everything for everyone. Because I really don't. And as much as I want to always be there for my people, and if you know me, I'm gonna do it, and I'm gonna be yes, and all the things. And also there's more to me than just E and C. And I'm a pretty cool gal outside of these walls too.

SPEAKER_05 44:05

And just I mean, what I know of you from your social media, you are the coolest. So I can only imagine how very cool you are in person.

SPEAKER_01 44:12

I just thank you. I just, yeah, just letting go of the constant jump. Like the shoulds. Yeah. I'm a like, yeah, I'm just I I consider myself a very reflective person and not reactive. So I think just continuing to empty the backpack of anything reactive. Because I'm not a heart surgeon, so I really don't need to be reactive.

SPEAKER_05 44:38

Agreed. I love that. Who is one person that immediately comes to mind when you hear the phrase allergic to the ordinary?

SPEAKER_01 44:52

My grandma. She is a tell us about her. Yeah, she's no longer with us, but she was, man, she was the coolest woman ever. She was a belly dancer. Oh. Right there. Hello. Yeah. Like allergic. Um, but she actually was the very first person in my life that got me thinking about creativity, coming back to that buzzword in a different way. She was she had the most beautiful handwriting, just you know, which now it's handwriting. What is handwriting? The lost art, yeah. Uh most beautiful handwriting, and she would hand draw me these women, these models, I guess, in the day. I mean, I was so young, and then I would like design their clothes and we would put on shows, and you know, she was just she was so cool and just had this like very cool southern, southern style tour, and was just this like flirt with life, and just she she's forever my like OG, just did things differently. So I love that.

SPEAKER_05 45:52

She sounds amazing. Belly dancing grandma. I love her. Yeah. If someone listening wants to live a more allergic to the ordinary life, what's something actionable they can do today to take a step in that direction?

SPEAKER_01 46:06

Look around and notice things. And I know that seems so like, well, what does that mean? What I mean by that is we are all rushing from thing to thing and needing to-do list and call and blah. But I think if you can just move through life, which there are seasons that are very fast-paced, and if you're someone that's wearing a lot of hats, it's just constantly fast-paced. Yeah. But how are you allowing your life to feel enchanting and feel delightful, even in the like back-to-back meetings? You know, are you stepping outside? Are you looking up? Are you seeing, oh my gosh, the way that light is hitting that?

SPEAKER_05 46:44

You know, I'm looking at the light hitting behind you, thinking, oh my god, that looks so amazing. Literally. Good, good. The shadows are great.

SPEAKER_01 46:51

Yeah. So I think, yeah, rather than feeling like in order to, and again, that's where like social comes in, and we feel like as we're scrolling, we're seeing all these shiny lives, and I need to do what they're doing in this elixir and this potion. Ugh. Instead, I think where when I feel the most allergic to the ordinary, when I feel the most excited and delighted, it's because I'm just paying attention to what's happening around me. Because there's actually a lot of like just ordinary magic that just exists if you allow yourself to just see it. Open your eyes.

SPEAKER_05 47:25

I totally agree. I love that advice. Elise, where can everybody find you?

SPEAKER_01 47:32

Um, well, you can find talking about old Instagram. You can find you can find me personally at Elise Nicole or the agency at ENC Agency. Same with our website. Um, yeah, we'd love to meet you and connect and always here to answer any of the unfiltered questions. So yes, thank you so much for the chat.

SPEAKER_05 47:55

I loved all your responses. You're amazing. Thank you for coming on.

SPEAKER_01 47:59

No, you're amazing.

SPEAKER_05 48:02

Thank you. Yay! Bye. Bye bye. If this episode sharpened your thinking, send it to someone who's allergic to the ordinary. And if you're a badass who's building or renovating a home and want it drenched in identity instead of boring default decisions, Studio Gaspose Go to. I'm Jamie Gasferovic, and this is Allergic to the Ordinary. I'll see you next episode.