Ep. 8 - Resident Evil Requiem was REALLY good (feat. Jeremy Smith)

Welcome to our longest HoBoPo episode yet! Introducing our first guest, my friend and occasional producer, Jeremy Smith! In this episode, we discuss the brand new ninth entry into the Resident Evil series, Requiem! We have a lot to discuss...

This podcast is likely not suitable for younger audiences.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:14

Howdy boneheads and welcome back to another episode of Habopo. My name is Connor McGrath, I'll be your skeleton host, and tonight we're joined for the first time ever by a very special guest. Would you care to introduce yourself?

SPEAKER_03 0:28

Hi, I'm Jeremy. You guys might know me from the Twitch chat. Uh I or rather the YouTube chat. No Twitch here. No Twitch here. YouTube chat. Um I'm a close friend of Connor here, and I'm really excited to talk about our topic today.

SPEAKER_00 0:41

I'm I am so psyched. Yes. Uh as mentioned, you might uh you might notice him from the non-existent Twitch chat, the existent YouTube chat. You also might know him as my Jeremy producer, briefly in the uh Violence in Nature video. If you're a fan of the YouTube series, we are joined today by Jeremy, uh one of my closest friends. I have known him for almost a decade now, like something around that time. Um we uh we've known each other since high school or since middle school. And um something uh uh a a unique piece of fiction that both of us share a great affinity for is the Resident Evil series. Now, uh Jeremy, would you like to share your relationship originally with the Resident Evil series?

SPEAKER_03 1:27

Yeah, well it actually started out. I mean, I feel like this is the same for a lot of people, where with the Resident Evil series particularly, you don't always start on the first game. Like you kind of hop in at any random point. And for me, that was originally Resident Evil 7. I hold that game near and dear to my heart. I absolutely adore it. Um and I played it to death too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:49

What do you mean by that? Like what have you done?

SPEAKER_03 1:52

Yeah, well, I've there was a time in my life when I got pretty, you know, decently committed. I wasn't really looking up a bunch of strategies and stuff, but just speedrunning the game. Um, and that was extraordinarily fun for me. I and uh, you know, it's actually the first game I ever approached with that, um, like doing a speedrun technique or anything like that. But I just found the replayability of the game extraordinary, and um, I got into it from there. And then after that, I played Resident Evil Village, which was fine.

SPEAKER_00 2:21

It was fun, it was okay. You know, there's parts of it that I like. Yeah. Um, fans of the channel, as I mentioned earlier, uh may remember that I uh I have two specific videos and then a combined video uh where I talk about Resident Evil 7 and Resident Evil 8 specifically uh because of my love for the character Ethan Winters. I oh god. Um I think before we talk about what we're gonna talk about tonight, I think we should spend like five minutes giving him his justice. Like I I mean I've given him over the course of two videos about an hour and a half's worth of praise, but like there's something so great about a character like Ethan. I uh a little spoiler for for for boneheads in the audience. Uh I'm currently in the production of a video about Resident Evil 9, so we're gonna have a little bit more talk about uh Ethan Winters coming up, but um I I'm curious, like, what is it about Ethan and what is it about Resident Evil 7, specifically over 8 that that is so good? Why I actually consider Resident Evil 7, or I have for a long time, one of my favorite horror games, potentially of all time. And I've played a lot, I love Outlast, that's really high on the list. There's a bunch of stuff, but I I'm curious, like, what is it about it that makes that game so good for you?

SPEAKER_03 3:37

It's a great question. Um I mean I think that starting off, I the setting that they that they produce and provide for you as a player is extraordinary. You know, I we don't talk about the boat section, but every other part of the game is. I I don't mind it, but it's just I want to be with Ethan. He has a cool character, but I want to be with Ethan. No, for sure. And Ethan, I don't know, he just provides something so special because he's just such like a a guy. He's just doing his thing. Some dude. Yeah, he really is, but he has so much compassion for the people that he loves. And um that that to me as a character is pretty telling, is like it's just good writing. I mean, obviously, we were talking about it earlier, but Resident Evil kind of has like that certain quirky writing style that we a lot of us, I think, as fans of the series really appreciate too.

SPEAKER_00 4:25

But um, yeah, no, I just really like Ethan Winter for Ethan Winters for that reason, and um I guess more so I I think that there's just something about that game, whether it's you know, Jack Baker following you around and just how terrifying that is, even on like your fifth playthrough with like I no, I mean those voice lines they're so memorable, but I will say, like, and I think this actually this is not even just specific to Resident Evil 7, but I think Resident Evil 7 uh accomplishes it so well. Um just just uh and like Resident Evil 2 also I like truly, it it's actually kind of a staple of the series at this point. But the idea of an antagonist who is consistently pacing around the environment looking for you, is really intimidating. And I know the games play certain tricks, like they're not always in certain sections, and based on whatever specific like scripted encounter they want you to have, you might not encounter them in certain areas, but the idea, like just the vague concept that you're being consistently pursued, it's it it really works. And I think a uh a bunch of other games have captured this idea, but Resident Evil does it in such a like intimate kind of way. Have you played uh can it can which games have you played?

SPEAKER_03 5:41

So, yeah, I was gonna say it's been uh so I started on Resident Evil 7, went over to 8, and then when the remake for 2 came out, I played that one. That one was extraordinary. It's a really good one. Um yeah, it's definitely up there for me. Uh I haven't played any of the original like games before the remakes of the you know the earlier.

SPEAKER_00 5:59

There's a learning curve for them. They've got a uh different structure. I remember uh have you played the re have you played four in any context? I've not played four in any context.

SPEAKER_03 6:08

Okay, that's the next one on my list.

SPEAKER_00 6:09

Oh, so uh especially now that you played nine, I think you'll you'll get much more of a kick out of it. But here's what I want to say. Um I I I and full disclosure, and I'll say this right now. I have not finished Resident Evil 4. I know it's it's actually it's actually really embarrassing for someone in my current uh position not to have finished it. But here's what I'll say. Um my original exposure to Resident Evil 4 was it its you know, its regular release uh before the remake had come out, is the point I'm making. Um and the issue that I had with that initially was that it had a clunkier style of gameplay than I was typically used to in my horde game settings, which is uh that stand and aim kind of like it it it you know, you've played a black ops game at this point in your life, and you know that the left uh joystick is meant for movement and the right joystick is meant for aiming. Well, this happened at an era in gaming when that still was kind of up in the air, and so there was movement, and then to aim, you had to completely stand still and then aim. And that was something that just for me, I I had a really hard time connecting to. Nowadays, uh uh in my current gaming era, I have played a number of games that um have emulated this particular style kind of in a nostalgic way. Uh uh many indie games like to capture the fixed camera angle, um, stand still and aim kind of perspective. And I and I have learned to love it, but I never returned to Resident Evil 4 in that particular context. However, uh the new game I really liked and because it did give you the option to aim in a more standard kind of way. Uh, you know, just the the way that I think people of our generation have grown used to combat controls existing. Um, I just got too carried away with a bunch of other games, so I still have not finished it. However, uh I I think this could potentially be a uh a good segue to talking about the characters from these series. Okay. Um now we were talking about Ethan Winters just a second ago, and I think um, to your point, what I love about Ethan Winters is that he is just some guy. Now, uh to recap for those of you who might not remember, Resident Evil 7 is about a man in uh or rather, let's let's start here. It's about a woman named uh Mia Winters, the wife of a man named Ethan Winters, uh, who is secretly working for a group known as the Connections. Do you know about this? Uh yeah, I I do have vague knowledge of it. I did a little bit of vague research after finishing Resident Evil 9, and actually did weirdly give a bit of uh uh uh context to Resident Evil 7, even though there's not a lot of touching on it. But um so she worked for this group called the Connections, and she was doing some bio experiment, whatever, that you know, in classic Resident Evil fashion went wrong, and suddenly she went missing for I would I'd like to say three years. I believe that's the time period.

SPEAKER_03 9:15

I I want to say two years. I'm like literally trying to remember the opening cut scene and RE7 of like, yeah, I believe I want to say it was with Mia.

SPEAKER_00 9:23

She's she's back. And he's like but she's been gone for you know, I am I actually just got Resident Evil 7 on my uh Switch and I my switch too, and I just I I I played the intro last night, but I was very tired, so I I didn't I didn't really contextualize uh or take all of it in. Um but the point is uh Ethan Winters is just some dude. I don't I don't even know if the series gives him a job like like if we know much more about what his actual position was before the game starts. Yeah, I want to say I'll tell you this much. He's not a cop, not Leon. He's not a soldier, not Chris. He's not there's people yelling outside, so I apologize if we're getting any feedback, folks. It's probably nothing that you can hear, but we can hear it. Uh we're not recording in the graveyard today. We're actually recording in my living room. So uh that's just fine. But anyway, uh he's he's not trained in any context. He's just some dude, and he goes out to Louisiana, which is funny because in basically no other Resident Evil game are we given an actual US state.

SPEAKER_03 10:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:31

But Resident Evil 7's in Louisiana.

SPEAKER_03 10:33

In a fictitious city, Dolvey, but is Dolby not real?

SPEAKER_00 10:37

Oh, I didn't look into it. That's interesting.

SPEAKER_03 10:38

I I am 99% sure in that as well.

SPEAKER_00 10:40

Okay. Well, now I feel like we have to pause and check. You want to do it? Yeah. Alright, let's check. So uh we officially have confirmation that Dolvey is a fictional uh place, as Jeremy mentioned a moment ago. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:51

Hell however heavily inspired by like rural cities out in uh um Louisiana.

SPEAKER_00 10:56

Yeah, this is not city, this is not suburbia, this is out in the middle of nowhere kind of place. And so uh Ethan Winters, uh, to continue this recap, he goes out there with no warning, really sketchy information given to him in the first place, and not a single weapon, not a single person who knows where he's going, not a s truly, he's just a human who throws himself into a dark pit. Um and that's Resident Evil 7. And uh and look, if you're interested in seeing what happens, play the game yourself or watch my videos about it. Um do that. Do that. Thank you guys. Yeah. If if if truly, if you're here and you haven't seen my videos, how did that even happen? I have to imagine that's the only on-ramp to this podcast that you have. Anyway, we cut to uh the end of that game. He's killed a bunch of uh Floridian no, not Floridian, what am I talking about? Louisianian. Louisianan?

SPEAKER_03 11:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:50

People from Louisiana. He's kill he's killed a family from Louisiana that's been infected by a Resident Evil style mole that's weirdly unrelated to the general themes of the rest of the series, but there's some tie-ins. We're gonna get there in a second. Um he saves his wife, kills a bunch of innocent people, but well, they've been taken over, so they're less innocent at this point. Then comes the second game, and this is the one that we were like, it's fun to play, but Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 12:17

I feel like it just it really has quite a lot of shortcomings. I've on the topic of talking characters, I think that um some of the antagonists in that game are just lacking in certain areas, like that fish guy, you know. I don't even really think. Moreau. Moreau. Yeah. Um, yeah, you know, I just thought that there were some parts of the game that slogged a little bit. Now I will say, and I've made the sentiment many times, and I'll continue to make it, I think it has a phenomenal opening. Yes. You know, getting into that.

SPEAKER_00 12:45

The first two to four hours would say are really strong.

SPEAKER_03 12:49

Seriously, I mean Castle Dimitresque, all that was and I don't think that this is a hot take by any stretch of the imagination, but um, it is something worth reiterating that it had a lot of potential, and I don't think that it's a bad game. I really don't. In fact, I No, I I I wouldn't say that either. Yeah. I would not. I w I went as far as to go back and replay it recently because uh, you know, it just there was that itch in my brain to do that. And I did. And you know, I still had a good time playing it, but I just Can I ask you something? To interrupt, I'm so sorry. No, please.

SPEAKER_00 13:16

Um would you say that the f that a significant portion of the good time you were having had to do with Ethan Winters as a character? I think it did. I do too. Okay, continue.

SPEAKER_03 13:26

Yeah, no, I because I mean he is the common denominator, obviously, between Resident Evil 7 and Resident Evil 8. Um, and he was that kind of driving force to want to return to that world and you know interact with it in um I don't know how long that game is, but however long it is. I want to say eight to ten hours. Yeah, somewhere in there. Oh, and we'll talk about that because I do have a point about that.

SPEAKER_00 13:50

Again, we're we're we're given the preamble here.

SPEAKER_03 13:52

This might be a longer episode, we'll find out. But um, yeah, no, I think that he was that kind of driving factor that made me want to return, and like I said, I still had a great time playing it.

SPEAKER_00 14:02

But um I'd say the gun play in Resident Evil 8 is probably a little bit more fun than Resident Evil 7. Yeah, but that might be the best thing it has going for it.

SPEAKER_03 14:13

Yeah, no, it has a lot more variety going on, you know. I think that But you know what? And this I'm gonna tie it back into RE9 for a second. It's hard not to. But um that's one of the things that I love so much about Resident Evil 7 and well, at least the earlier parts of it, and then especially Resident Evil 9, yeah, where when you're in that survival horror world with Grace Ashcroft or with um Ethan Winters, and you're just trying to survive, yeah, the fact that you don't have that many weapons at your disposal, I think it it lends itself to the story and to the fear that you experience as a player because you kind of feel like these are insurmountable odds, and the fact that you have such a limited arsenal, it makes it so you have to be more conservative with your ammo or with the decisions that you make and how you interact with the world and the enemies in it. So I think it did a really good job of that.

SPEAKER_00 15:02

I I totally agree, and I actually think the logic behind that actually, in a in a weird context, this is one of the only circumstances where I think that and I and this can translate to other games, but uh we'll talk about it right here. Um, difficulty level might actually in this specific context add to the horror of a situation because the less you have to work with, the more terrified you are of encountering specific entities, namely the antagonists of Resident Evil 7. Right. Meanwhile, Resident Evil 8, partially, uh depending on whatever difficulty level you're playing on, but even still, it floods you with weapons, it floods you with ammunition, and it gives you the opportunity to completely distance yourself from the actual narrative, which, all things considered, within the actual fictional landscape we're working in, should take precedent at all points. There's no circumstance under which Ethan Winters should be wandering around doing bullshit when he's trying to save the life of his daughter. However, the game allows you time to completely distance yourself from the narrative to go hunting for treasure so you can increase your guns even better. And so it does kind of fall into this earlier stage of the Resident Evil, or rather, uh I guess I would say maybe more of a mid-stage. Because Resident Evil's earlier entries uh were a little bit more intimate. I'd say at least one through three. And then obviously seven in itself, I would say, is the most intimate entry. But then once we get probably into four through six, we're basically in action movie territory. And so this is the interesting dynamic that I I think this is a helpful partial transition point for us as we talk about the two characters that we play as in Resident Evil 9, and I think this is such a strength to how this game was created and how it was marketed, because it it it appeals to both fans of the series, both types of fans of the series. Um do you have any thoughts about that? Well, actually, before we actually even get into that, uh your experience with Leon is is pretty limited, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 17:07

Yeah, uh outside of Resident Evil 2, yes. Absolutely. Because you've only played that iteration of him, because you haven't even gotten to four, huh? Right. Yeah, I mean, and you know, I think I have a general understanding of how those games at least played in big plot points. You know, I think that it would be pretty difficult to get this far in this um connected to a series without you know having some of that information. Yeah. But um yeah, no, this is one of the first times where I've had a really like action-heavy Resident Evil experience, and I I do agree that I they did a phenomenal job of baking the two ideas into a single game.

SPEAKER_00 17:42

You you you go through and and this is this is actually really really impressive to me. You go through some of the same environments as both characters and manage to have these distinctly separate experiences in those environments. Leon Kennedy, you know, you're smashing through these this world that you've already explored as a terrified Grace Ashcroft. And and the fact that this was able to be accomplished is so interesting. And we're again we're gonna get into this in a second once we once we break into our real conversation, which is by the way, gonna be totally uh unorganized, just so you know, disorganized. Um but but I I I think this this prior context, I I really like establishing where we already exist in the series. Because what I'll say is this what do you know about five and six specifically?

SPEAKER_03 18:34

I know incredibly little about five and uh and to be honest with you, but with six, all I understand is that as maybe even this is looking at it from too far of an outside, but the game developers wanting to push into a western market that was far more focused on action-oriented gameplay as opposed to like this more survival horror that they had built the foundation with. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:56

In competition with many other franchises that were maybe accomplishing survival horror a little bit more effectively than they were at this point.

SPEAKER_03 19:04

Yeah. So, yeah, what I understand from that, I mean, narratively I could also pull on a couple of things, but yeah, I just understand that it had made a significant departure from the type of gameplay that fans of the series had grown accustomed to. Um and then they really pulled the reins.

SPEAKER_00 19:23

To be perfectly clear, there were these elements, the the exploration and and the and the way that the game was designed, in that you know, you go to a room, you find a thing, you m use that thing, you move another thing. That that managed to exist, but the tension, the these again, I use the word intimacy a lot when I talk about my favorite parts of Resident Evil. And there's gonna come a moment in this podcast when I really have to reckon with that because we're gonna talk about Leon for a little bit here, and we're gonna talk about how much I fucking love how over the top he is. But but that that's kind of the weird point between these games, is that so I have not played five and six specifically. I think those are the only well I and also uh I'll be fair. I have played one through four, I've not finished four, I've played um seven through nine, finished all of those. Um but I have not played like the offshoots. I've not played Revelations, I have not played Outbreak, I've not played any of those. Those are very those are, especially now, definitely next up on my list, especially because we I want to I want to look further into Ashcroft, I want to look further into a bunch of stuff. Your mom. Um yeah, all the stuff we're gonna get into. But but I am I am at least familiar passively with um the story of Five and Six because I I used to watch gameplay of it. I've not done it myself, and so that limits my perspective, and I don't know a lot of the story, but there there are elements at least that I'm familiar with. Primarily Wesker, Chris Redfield, and the boulder in the volcano, which which to me is one of the most exemplary uh moments of the ridiculousness that Resident Evil later fell into that kind of got wiped away with Resident Evil 7. Now, I believe the volcano moment happened in Resident Evil 5, because I think Resident Evil 6 was Leon based in a city, and I think the other one was Chris Redfield in Wesker in a volcano. Again, I don't know. But but um the reason I have done this whole preamble and I've asked Jeremy all these uh insighting questions is because our experience with Resident Evil is a much more modern experience, I would say, where we are learning about a lot of the stuff retroactively. Yeah. And I think um just a pure acknowledgement here, there are certain groups or people out there that prefer that um or rather, uh I d I'd call them purists, right? They're their their main thing is you need to experience it blind as it was originally portrayed, and there is a part of me that understands that perspective. But uh what I want to go get into here first is that what Resident Evil is today in the modern landscape is a is a game that is. Uh full of I don't know, maybe opposing ideas is not the right word, but ideas that don't necessarily always manage to work in tandem, right? You play Resident Evil 2 and you have moments that are scary and you have moments that are not at all. You play Resident Evil 3, the game is fucking four hours long and it barely it's a very short game. At least the remake is. I've I've actually heard recently that they cut certain stuff from the original. I heard that too. I have not played. Um but from our own perspective, um Resident Evil 7 was this exemplary horror game that was also an interesting introduction to the game. And now, you know, we we get later into it and we play all these different games, the room exploration, the puzzle solving. There's so many things to hold on to, but it's very easy for different communities and different groups to form about the series. The people who love the bombastic explosion quippiness of later entries, and the people who love the uh quiet, subtle, really scary, supernatural qualities of very early and then very late entries. And so when Resident Evil 9, and this is finally our introductory point, I know, right? We're fucking however long in, I want to say 15, 20 minutes, maybe even longer, when Resident Evil 9 is announced, and initially, we're not, we don't even know Leon's in there. He's not part of that initial um trailer. The question is, on everyone's mind, on people who are fans of Resident Evil 7 and 8, and people who are fans of the new remakes, and people who are diehards. What kind of Resident Evil game are we looking at? Because Resident Evil 8 tried to lean more into the action and tried to lean less into the horror because of certain uh user reviews, which actually made me very frustrated.

SPEAKER_03 23:48

Have you read that interview? I have not read that specific interview, but I am familiar with the sentiment that a lot of people were uh Resident Evil 7 was too scary. Yeah, put them out of their comfort zone in a degree that they weren't able to really enjoy or handle properly. And um I don't know, that that frustrated me too because I think that they did such an extraordinary job of achieving that effect, and um it's one of the things that I love most about the game. So Yeah, and I think that there were still elements that were obviously still there in Resident Evil 8. I mean there's there's moments where you're like, well, okay.

SPEAKER_00 24:24

I I'd again I I I I might have mentioned this earlier. The first the first two hours of Resident Evil 8, I was fully, fully bought in. Oh yeah. N uh first four, including those first two, I was still like really into it. Castle Dimitrask is a pretty great spot.

SPEAKER_03 24:40

Yeah, I loved it.

SPEAKER_00 24:41

Uh Beneviento, I'm still kind of okay with because I want to talk about that because I actually have some theories about that. I'm curious about that. But Beneviento, I think, still has a lot. But when you but past that point, they get there's a real stark plateau there. And and so, again, as I was saying, when Resident Evil 9 was announced, there was a real question of what kind of game are we looking at here? And I think the original, uh a lot of the original trailers showed a lot more of that intimacy that I think you and I originally initially connected with. Um and then comes the moment where it is announced that Leon Kennedy also plays a role in this game. And do you remember what I originally said to you when I realized that this was the dynamic? I don't know that I do. Well, I'll tell you, because I uh I fucking called this shot so hard. Uh here's what I told you. I said, I think the best thing they can do is use one character to to do the action crazy combat and one character to do the intimate scary combat. And that is, quite literally, exactly what they did. Timothy. And uh it not even without question, and again, we're gonna get into this. They did exactly that. And and I I don't want to pretend to be like the de facto horror personality who knows exactly what every game needs to do, but truly, I think that's the best decision they could have made. Yeah. Because I enjoyed all of it.

SPEAKER_03 26:07

Yeah, there wasn't a single moment in the game. No bad moment.

SPEAKER_00 26:11

We're gonna get we'll figure I want to know what your moment is, but we'll but truly, 90%. Yeah, I would say maybe 90%. I would say 95%. I had a great time. And and um for the record, I uh you might have seen it, depend uh Jeremy saw it. Uh I streamed Resident Evil 9 uh the first 10 hours, day of release, uh then the last 10 hours, and by the way, the game is not that long. I um I had many pauses and many moments where I was talking to the camera for a long time, but I I I I played the whole game over the course of basically a week, two weeks ago. And as of the recording of this podcast, I am almost done with my second playthrough, just as a recap, and also because, again, like I said, I am working on a video uh about this. Um I am so enraptured with this game that as soon as this playthrough is done, I might start a third playthrough on my Switch. It is that good. Um Resident Evil 9 is a game that had a lot of context, a lot of history, a lot of unknowns when it was introduced. We we had a character we were had never seen before, we had a character that was arguably the most beloved character in the series suddenly meshing. We didn't know what we were going to find. We didn't know how the game was going to perform, we didn't know what perspective we were gonna get, first or third, because we've had a lot of that uh uh over the past uh five to seven years. So there was a lot of unknowns. And uh I may have mentioned this before. I don't know if I've done it on podcasts, but I think I've definitely done it on stream. I don't watch trailers for stuff. I like going into especially horror. You don't do that anymore.

SPEAKER_03 27:55

I w I went in blind to research.

SPEAKER_00 27:57

I went in completely blind. I knew Leon was in it, I knew Grace was in it. That was it. That was unavoidable. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:03

That's about all I know.

SPEAKER_00 28:04

That's what I went in blind. So what you are about to hear, the the conversation that is about to follow, after we take a quick second break, uh it is truly the experience of someone who had no idea what they were getting into. And truly, spoiler alert here, loved the game. Loved it. I loved the game. But uh, we're gonna get there in just one second. Alright, and we've taken our break. It was a little longer than we were expecting. And uh, let's give a little disclaimer right here. So, first of all, I want to just uh apologize if there's any difference in sound quality from our regular episodes. We, like I mentioned earlier, are not recording in the graveyard. We in fact are recording in my living room. This is because if we recorded in the graveyard, especially with Colorado's weirdly hot spring slash winter slash whatever the fuck, 90-degree day today. It's way too hot in my apartment that does not have a r really functioning air conditioner, you know? These are the struggles of being a YouTube content creator at the age that I am, so this is how this works out. Uh secondary disclaimer, uh uh my co-host my co-host. No, it's fine. Here we go. We're gonna take it again. Cut that part just got cut, that's fine. My co-host and I, uh, who uh, as I may have mentioned, is a close friend of mine, have also uh uh imbibed a couple of spirits um over the course of our recording session today. So if we're a little scrambled, I apologize for that, but we're gonna do our best to talk about this. And uh I I I really don't think there's going to be a very intense structure for today's episode. Because truly, uh, over the course of our uh hangout today, which has gone well before this uh podcast is recording, and also in the middle of uh we have really exhibited a great deal of self-uh restraint not talking about this game. We we vaguely recommended it to a friend of ours who played the intro to it at a house party recently for my my good friend here's birthday, which is if you want to steal our identities. Um I'll cut that part. Don't cut that, cut that, cut that. I'll bleep it, I'll bleep it so people understand the context but not the dates. Uh either way, um we really actually haven't had a real discussion about this game, despite the fact that both of us share a deep love for this style of game, and we both, I would say, uh speaking for Jeremy here, really enjoyed this game. Enjoyed our experience with it. So, I I think keeping some amount of structure is gonna be important here. The first question I want to ask is how do we feel about Grace? Just as a character, and let's actually you know what's actually let's let's even narrow it down. How do we feel about Grace before the story starts? When she has been introduced, before she has dealt with any of the insane circumstances circumstances she ends up dealing with here?

SPEAKER_03 31:05

Well, like Founder immediately is a very like trepidaco trepidatious character, but like somebody who I was really um I don't know, somebody who I was interested in learning and wanting to learn a lot more about. I think that they accomplished that really, really decently, especially like with the opening scene where you know she has this job put on her desk that by the way she should not be doing.

SPEAKER_00 31:28

Oh, dude, I was so ready to talk about this point. Her boss. I I've actually seen a couple theories on the internet. People thought that her boss was going to be revealed to be a villain because why else would he give her such a fucking asshole job knowing full well that he would be sending her to the place that she watched. And I you don't even realize I thought it she just knew about it. No, the place she watched her mom get murdered violently.

SPEAKER_03 31:58

Like murdered violently, too. But then even like just taking like a very human approach to it, where it's just like I won't force you. If anybody has dealt with grief or death in their life before, for him to then go say, I know that you're upset about it, but it happened eight years ago. Get over it.

SPEAKER_00 32:13

It's like he literally says, It might be time for you to face your demons, face your feet. Something along those lines. He goes, and and like I said a second ago, he says, I won't force you. Okay, we're in the FBI. Okay, so here's here's something we need to touch on. Um I I and I I mentioned this uh, by the way, if you haven't watched, I did stream the entirety of these games. Uh it's a little longer than probably the actual playthrough might be, but if you're interested, go ahead and watch those. But I did mention during this playthrough, or rather, someone mentioned to me, and then I definitely remarked on the fact that Grace is not a field operative. No. She is an analyst. Her job, actually, when we're introduced to her, she is currently uh rather, um she's she's talking about the case she's been assigned, but rather when we get her flashback earlier, you know, she's on Resident Evil's equivalent of Reddit. Do you know who she's talking about? Oh wait, I have seen something about this, but they're talking about Resident Evil 7, aren't they? They're talking about the Bakers. Because the Bakers. Okay, so the this is the interesting thing. We talked about Ethan for a while for a second here. His two games weirdly kind of don't factor all that heavily into the regular Resident Evil narrative. They're just kind of like a subplot that is attached to the fact that Umbrella's bad and a bunch of people who interface with Umbrella are bad, and a bunch of shit kind of got out of control. But the fact that she's aware of this is actually is a very fun fact and also speaks to the fact that she's like she is invested in the kinds of things that she has to deal with, but she is not sh she she's not a person who throws herself at them. No. No. So yeah, anyway, when we meet her, she is not at all a field operative. She her main job is sitting at a desk and analyzing data that she has been given by other people. People like Leon. But anyway.

SPEAKER_03 34:01

Yeah, no, I mean I think that I was I mean, and I think that so many people were, but as soon as that first cutscene rolls and everything, you as a player are already very intrigued, at least by the ideas that they're presenting and like uh the narrative that you're about to embark on. But um, yeah, getting into that, and then finally when you actually get your feet on the floor and you get the control in your hands and you're able to control Grace. Um I what an amazing thing.

SPEAKER_00 34:26

I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. Um I I think uh we've discussed this before, but one of the things I do love is the perspective shift that the game gives us. Um and you know, I was talking earlier about my love of this game's respect for the two different distinct parts of its community, the part that likes the action horror versus the part that likes the intimate horror. And what the game recommends to you, but does not force you to do, is tell you that uh it will be a better playing experience if you play as Grace in first person and Leon in the third person. And um, I just want to reiterate that for both of our experiences, and and we'll we'll talk about it in this sense as we go forward, you played with Grace in the first person and Leon in third, correct? Yeah, that's right. Same for me. Um and I and I think that's actually a really interesting part to comment on because I I've seen clips of people playing her in third person. I'm kind of curious to do that.

SPEAKER_03 35:18

And it also so I try it. From what I understand, and I haven't tried it myself, but from what I understand, it actually is not maybe not equally, maybe that's not the right word, but it is still phenomenally done. Like if you play Grace in the third person, it's still very fluid, and they it's clear that they put in the work to make that work, you know? And um, because a lot of people might just think that, like, oh, just tack on, like, throw on uh third party or third um person animation for Grace, but they actually did put in the dedicated time too, from what I understand. So I would love to check it out. But um, yeah, no, I think that that idea that they had to manipulate the way that you're interacting with the world and the game through uh perspective change was really, really well done.

SPEAKER_00 36:02

Because I mean I'm actually curious what Leon in full first person would feel like, because some of the upgrades you get to his guns later put the gun into first person. So I wonder if you start there or if it's just a different style of aiming. So that's something I might look into in a different playthrough. But anyway, you were talking about when you first get boots on the ground, you just race.

SPEAKER_03 36:23

Yeah, I mean it's so well done. Because I mean, we all know that this game is it's gorgeous. Like there's graphics are incredible. The graphics are incredible, and but like it's not just the graphics that put you in that world, but it's just all of the atmosphere, all the building that they're making to like put you in it.

SPEAKER_00 36:40

I saw this post a little while ago that was like certain gamers, it was like a a news post on like a game Instagram or whatever that was like certain gamers are are saying the Resident Evil team should make an open world Resident Evil game because this first section of the game was so good. And but every comment I saw under it was like the fact that the section was so good is because it was an open world. They really they put as much effort as possible into making this feel like a real genuine setting that had people in it. And even still, I noticed the same character model like three times in that opening place.

SPEAKER_03 37:14

Yeah, no, that is true. Dude with the hat and the scarf. Yeah, dude with the hat and the scarf over and over. Um, but yeah, no, I just mean to say that I think they did a really extraordinary job of of I I know this word is overused in this context all the time, but like immersion in the world. Sure, no, but it's the right word though. They did a phenomenal job of of bringing this world to life and um even if it was like a really quick section that you walk through pretty quickly before you get into the hotel and everything like that. But um, yeah, I was immediately I was I was like, oh okay, let's you know buckle up, like we're about to experience something special.

SPEAKER_00 37:47

I couldn't help but compare it to the opening to Resident Evil 7. Resident Evil 8 does its best with this with the little mountain walk, but I I didn't find it as quite compelling because it's mostly just stumbling through the darkness. Um but Resident Evil 7 has that very famous intro where you're walking through the Louisiana swamp to get to the guest house, and only once you finish the guest house, which also acts as a tutorial, do you really access the main amount of the game? And what I I I liked about this first section was that it it established the premise of uh especially through some of the context loose you established later, like missing posters and just kind of the general attitude in the city. Like there's a definitive tone that's being set, but but like most of these uh more intimate intros that we were talking about here, you're you're nothing's revealed. You're just left with like a an unsettling just a little chill up your spine. I think that's so good. And then you meet the cop who is pretty nice to you, which makes what happens later a lot worse. But yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:49

Yeah. No, I think you know, because especially when you're looking at the context of these newer Resident Evil games, it is like the word that you uh have kept saying is like that intimate approach. But each one of the characters as they're presented, you are presented with that many characters in the story in the greater scheme of things, but they all feel so uh there's a lot of depth to these characters, and it's not just like a toss-away character that they threw on to develop the plot and or like to further the plot. But they, you know, it feels like there is depth to them, and um I really appreciate about that about the games. Um but yeah, once you get into the uh the hotel section, that's really when it starts amping up on the horror element, then you're like, okay, we're really we're we're going back to where we're in it now.

SPEAKER_00 39:35

Yeah. So that that hotel section, and uh, we mentioned that cop earlier, you know. Um what I love is that even and it look, we're gonna talk about copaganda here for a second. He seems like a nice guy. And we're gonna talk about copaganda more when we talk about Leon. But this guy, he you know, he lets you in, he's not being overtly like he he he seems like he genuinely is just curious about the situation and wants to help you out. And then well, okay. Uh how do we want to approach like I do we want to go through it beat by beat? Or I don't even know. I feel like that's a hard way to talk about this in this kind of setting.

SPEAKER_03 40:12

Yeah, I don't think that that's really necessary, but there is a point that I did want to add really quickly, and this is how this is one of our first. Well, it's not one of our first, but it's one of the more poignant ways of the writers showing us what kind of character Grace is because she speaks so I don't know, just she's uh very clearly very flustered by this entire situation. She is not prepared, not where she's supposed to be, and that kind of sets the precedent that we see throughout the entirety of Grace's portion of the game, where I like to think that she became a little bit more confident as the game went on, but there was certainly that perpetual element of just what the fuck is going on, and it's a very realistic approach that I think you know, if a lot of ourselves find ours found ourselves in that position, we'd be reacting similarly.

SPEAKER_00 41:00

Or worse, to be perfect. Yeah, she manages, she does a lot. Yeah. Um, but no, that it's a good point. I I think um part of the reason that we brought up Ethan was because I I think it's so easy for people who are in our particular position who were mainly introduced to the series through him and then kind of backlogged our way through the rest. Um is that we're used to a very Leon Kennedy, who again we're gonna get to in a second, has a very different personality type. Again, Chris Radfield, like all of that, to someone like Ethan. And we're very used to Ethan just being some guy who who was thrown into a bad situation. And so what's so great about Grace is that she is very much that. She's definitely some girl thrown into a situation, but she's not just Ethan. Ethan was kind of like a Marvel character, main guy, Paul Rudd, Quippy, whatever. Paul Rudd, for I don't know, we were talking about him earlier, that's why he was on my head. Um but but uh but but Grace has such a definitive personality, it's so clear that she cares about other people, she's so empathetic to them, and yet individually, uh uh when she's on her own, everything is terrifying to her. Even stuff even well before we actually see, you know, the girl as the antagonist in that particular section is called up here. She everything makes her stutter, she's shocked by everything, she she can barely do anything without being told specifically to by another character, whether it's her mom and the flashback or the FBI director who again, asshole, sending her here. Um But I think what I love about the cop is in this section, I don't know why he he stands out to me so much, is that not only is he the last piece of permission Grace gets for anything, you know, after he lifts the curtain, she's on her own for real, right? Um but he's also the threshold that needs to be passed. By the time you've finished interfacing with the police officer, Grace has effectively defended herself for the first time from someone who wants to kill her. And that already sets such an interesting precedent, and she remains terrified for a great deal of the game, if not all of it. But but I I think that like that first intro is so strong because and also I couldn't help but um compare, and I know uh we haven't given much context for this, you know what I'm talking about here, right? Um there's this moment, if you want to outline it, you can yourself, but there's this moment where the cop is clearly infected by Gideon, probably with this dart gun that he's shown using, um, and becomes a supernatural, undead kind of creature that uh corners Grace in this abandoned, traumatic hotel from her history and starts trying to kill her, essentially. And uh the thing I and I noticed this immediately is. Is that that first scene is actually very reminiscent of Ethan Winter's first scene with Mia in the hallway when she stabs him in the hand with the screwdriver, when she tries to actually, Grace takes a lot less damage. But the point is, it's like this huge recontextualization of the intensity that this character thought they were in for. Ethan did not think this was gonna happen. Grace did not think this was gonna happen, but by the end, Ethan's lost a hand and Grace has stabbed a guy in the head. And I think that that's a really great introduction to even these intimate moments having a great deal of weight and intensity behind them. And yet still, like in the darkness, he's crawling after you, he's flopping all over himself. Um and it's uh it it's it's unsettling, it's scary. You you feel intimidated, and this is not even the the kind of pursuit character that we get into later with the game. Um and and I I don't know, I I get hung up on this character because it feels like it it feels like an important character in Grace's specific journey.

SPEAKER_03 45:02

Yeah. Yeah. No, it definitely sets the stage for what uh she encounters through the rest of the game. And um with that, I actually maybe we could segue that into talking about once we get to the hospital and we do encounter our first antagonist, uh, the girl, and specifically how that evoked such, I'm sure, at least for myself and I'm sure for so many others, like genuine terror in that first scene when that hand comes out to grab that uh the doctor. I mean, I was like, what am I getting myself into? What am I looking at? Yeah. Um, I think that they did such a great job of also you know, priming you as a player in a sense. I it's not something that you have to see, but if you do a little bit of exploring, you find a uh like little children's novel that's um discussing you know this entity and how you know you have to go to the light, and uh that's like the one thing that can get her off of your tail. And seeing how it kind of primes you for something, but you don't really know what to expect yet. But then in that moment of terror when you first see the girl in pitch black in pitch black, you're like, oh shit, I need to get into some I need to get to light really quickly.

SPEAKER_00 46:14

But but that little instinctual process, which I I would say is intrinsic. You don't necessarily need to have read that book to be like the light's probably safer than the dark. Yeah, but but that little extra piece is it's so it's so good. Um but I think before we talk about that specifically, I think we should maybe talk about another person because we get there after one other introduction, which I think is actually really crucial to mention as it is the antithesis of the other uh of of one specific aspect of your playtime. You spend half the arguably the majority of your first half of the game in very scary personal settings, usually in the first person as Grace, but the other part, and this is intersecting the your your I would say like maybe the first two arcs, you play as Leon. And now Leon in Resident Evil 9 is 51. That's what the community has agreed on his age. He looks good, man. He looks great. And uh I I read about this. Um the reason he looks great is because there's a great deal of um a female influence on his design within the dev team. Um, a number of people who really like his character and uh are heterosexual females have driven the production team to create the most effectively sexy version of Liana's. We all know it. There's no way to beat around the bush. He's fucking really hot in this game. Not only is he s is he cool, and we're gonna get into how cool he is, but he's really hot. Like, he's he he is he's way hotter than any 51-year-old has any any reason to be.

SPEAKER_03 48:01

And I have reason to also believe that what is it, Gideon, the uh antagonist that we meet as Leon. Um, and uh Grace obviously. I didn't hear the end of this sentence. Well, he maybe also thinks that Leon's a little bit of a guy saw that little hair.

SPEAKER_00 48:18

He goes like, yeah, you can't see this, but he like kind of rushes. What was that? Oh, I was so certain you were gonna be like, Gideon's a little hot. Oh, okay, yeah. I can see it. By the way, I'm looking at Jeremy's little um the the bag that Jeremy carries around to most events he goes to in his day-to-day life on the table here. And I just can't help but think of like, oh, those two there's two extra inventory slots in that. It looks just like that little extra like hip satchel thing. That's funny. Um but uh to that point, um, our introdic uh our introduction to Leon uh comes with him investigating uh uh the same thing that Grace is investigating, which are these uh bodies that have been been appearing with like uh what seems like a T virus type of infection, but one that's strange enough, or maybe the T virus infection in itself is uncommon enough at this point in the narrative that um it it's still worth investigating. But either way, it is a strange new type of infection. And we learn at this point that Leon himself is suffering from a T virus infection, and also that his uh his partner, his his man in the chair, as it were, uh, I believe her name is Sherry or is it Sherry? Sherry. Yeah, Sherry. Uh, who who I was in uh informed by my chat, thank you, chat, uh was the little girl that he rescued during Resident Evil 2 is also suffering from the same infection. So it would stand a reason they probably it was their exposure to the initial virus outbreak in the first game that uh probably got them there because almost no one else actually managed to evacuate Raccoon City before uh fucking missiles were launched at it. Um but his uh our introduction to him shows him, oh god, if you thought he was fucking over it in Resident Evil 4, you have no idea. He is tired in this new entry. Um, but he makes his way to uh basically the same, or no, not basically the same place that uh Grace is currently hanging out. And while Grace is terrified running for oh actually, no, I'm even getting ahead of myself now because I did want to talk about that actual first scene where you play as him. It's very funny to me because Leon's walking down the street chasing after Gideon, who he happens to see just carrying Grace down the road, which, dude, if he just placed a shot right there, right in the moment, could have avoided this whole situation. Yeah. But, you know, that's Resident Evil. It's kind of a tragedy in itself. Um, he uh Gid he watches as Gideon starts turning a bunch of people into zombies or zombie adjacent kind of monsters, and immediately is like, alright, and starts killing people. There's there's weirdly no amount of like, oh man, they used to be people. I get the impression from very early on into this game that Leon is entirely over it. Yeah, I mean everything that's happening.

SPEAKER_03 51:11

He's a weathered, you know, like veteran to this kind of thing, because you know how he's had to deal with it for so many different reasons and times now that it only makes sense. I mean, it feels right for his character to be a person who's like, alright, it's go time. Like, I've done this before, so here we go again.

SPEAKER_00 51:27

He literally, I think he might have even said, here we go again at some point in this game.

SPEAKER_03 51:31

I wouldn't be surprised.

SPEAKER_00 51:33

The fact of the matter is, Leon in this game, I I I believe represents kind of i i i it's almost exemplary of a certain attitude regarding the game in itself, which is like, alright, as we reference the earlier games of Resident Evil, which I believe started coming out in you know the early 2000s, it's been around for a while. It was in the 90s. Might have been the 90s, right? Did the first game come out? Okay, so it was it was like two years. Because I think the first, I think Raccoon City incident is 1998, if I'm if I'm correct about that. But either way, um these games have been around for a while, and I think there's a certain attitude regarding these games, which is which is like, when is it gonna we like we are still talking about what happened in that first game? Why does everything come back to what happened in that first game? And I and I I I partially can understand that attitude. I I can understand being tired of a plot point being so relevant, but at the same time, it's like, hey man, this is this is the franchise you're getting into. That moment in in American history, if that happened in a real like the bombing of a major metropolitan city, that would be talked about all the time. And it would continue to be an inciting incident in a great deal of historical events after the fact. So I think what Leon kind of represents is this attitude of being like, man, it's always kind of the same shit, and there's new stuff all the time, but it's kind of always the same shit. But it's like a more positive iteration of that because I think there's a lot of negativity attached to the idea of like trying to work your way through the same game over and over, and that's why Resident Evil has changed what it's looked like in the past like decade or so. But um I think what Leon represents is like, hey, beyond all of that, beyond all the superficial stuff, it always comes back to this. Man, it's been a while, huh? He's aged. He was like, what, he was 27, 25 in Resident Evil 2.

SPEAKER_03 53:37

It was funny to me because I revisited some content from Resident Evil 2 after having finished Requiem. Which which is an incredible re-reminder of Yeah, it really is, but just to the point of like how Leon is aged and matured, like he I I didn't think that he looked like a baby when I first played Resident Evil 2. He looked like an adult. He looks so incredibly young. And it's just kind of funny to see that.

SPEAKER_00 54:02

I think there was also And Resident Evil 4 remake uh bridged that gap. Oh, the flashbacks are interesting because they they do give you that one-to-one comparison. But Resident Resident Evil 4 remake also bridged that gap a little bit by showing you because in Resident Evil 4, which is I believe Leon's direct sequel, it's the it's the most recent time you see him after Resident Evil 2, he's already like a whole different attitude. He's already like, the fucking president wants me to save his daughter. And I'm like, dude, just a second ago, you were a cop who got broke. Okay, this is actually something I want to talk about. And I don't know if it I we should talk about it now or we should talk about it later. Actually, let's talk about it later when we talk about the ring. Let's talk about it later. Okay. But so, so okay, we've done it now. We've talked about Grace and we've talked about Leon. Both of their introductions are so funny, because Leon is just this dude who's been through the ringer like six or seven times by now. I don't know. I I'm saying six or seven, he's probably less in the games, but I think he's been depicted in a lot of different pieces of fiction, including books and shows. So he's been through it a lot. Um but the real horror does start with the girl in that hospital section. And I think this is where the conversation becomes easier because these sections don't need to be picked apart as like intricately as the story details when you're looking at cutscenes and information and stuff. Because it's mostly just gameplay. But there are these moments of the gameplay that are really effective. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 55:33

Yeah, and I mean it's kind of like we're talking about earlier, if we look at the game as a whole, or at least Grace's Grace's portion of the game, where I think that their ability to create like urgency and having to be resourceful and you know, just really getting immersed into the world that they're um that they've made for us, it's really, really, really well done. I think that each and every single time that I was met with like a problem of resources, I was only pulled more into the world itself. And I think that uh the only really criticism I have from Grace's portion of the game is that I wish that there were more. I wish that there was a little bit more, and I wish that we had some more time with her interwoven into Leon's gameplay. That being said, I think that they did an extraordinary job with the time that they did devote to the character. I only just wish that um we got to play more of her uh in the second half of the game, but I mean I think that that's just honestly, you know, you're suffering from success there.

SPEAKER_00 56:30

Yeah, it it it's really interesting you that you say that because I I hadn't considered it from that perspective. I I actually was under the impression that I feel like the majority of the game was Grace's game and Leon was a uh a deuteragonist, right? The the secondary uh pro uh the secondary most important character. Not the antagonist or the protagonist, but a secondary character. And yet when we do get later into the game, there is that great section, truly really fun to play section, in Raccoon City, where you play as Leon and you're finding all these sections of the bomb and you're you're you're you're reliving all of it, especially once you get into the police station, which is really cool. And I think that's gonna require its own discussion in itself. This is gonna be a longer episode for sure. Um But I I truly I was like I I I don't think that one character got more or got like I I didn't want more from one character or another. I just kind of w it really felt like it was Grace's game for a while, and then we got 30 seconds to play as Leon for a couple times, and then it was Leon's game for a while, and then we played as Grace at the end. I would have And I don't know if this could have been accomplished while keeping the narrative the way it was, because I think the narrative was really great. But I would have loved a a little bit better of a blending.

SPEAKER_03 57:54

Yeah, you know? I think it's just such an incredibly difficult thing to achieve given the incredibly different playstyles that the two characters uh present. Yeah. Because I mean, I think that to a certain degree, a lot of players, I'm sure, maybe even experienced a certain degree of whiplash from, you know, playing this survival horror game with Grace for a good time, and you know, again.

SPEAKER_00 58:16

Yeah, imagine if you've only played seven and eight.

SPEAKER_03 58:18

Yeah. And then immediately like, wham, now we're into Leon gameplay and it is so incredibly different. I think they still did a really good job of um not making it so jarring, but I do think that for some people, if they interwove gameplay to a more significant degree, it would be just jarring to experience. But you know, then again, I just I think that um I still maybe in a world if they could have done it properly, I would have really liked to see a little bit more grace uh gameplay, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:51

It's really interesting.

SPEAKER_03 58:52

So actually, I wanted to go back to a point that you had made previously, uh specifically in the context of uh Leon section and how there was one moment in the game and this is really I mean, I want to give this game its flowers because it deserves them, but there was one point in the game where I don't think that it was a detriment to the story being told or my enjoyment of the game. But when playing as Leon and you enter into Raccoon City and you're collecting some bomb parts and that kind of thing, I actually did feel that it uh maybe overstayed its welcome ever so slightly. Really? Not in the sense that I wasn't still having a good time, but I was like, okay, I know that this is the formula that Resident Evil use it's their bread and butter. It's like go to this location to collect an item and then bring it back to a previous location.

SPEAKER_00 59:43

And maybe go back later if you want to find extra stuff. Right.

SPEAKER_03 59:47

But I did feel that like I'm like, do I really need to collect this many items? Like, because I with the stakes that the that the story had at that point in time, it kind of felt that it lost momentum ever so slightly. And you know, it picked itself right back up again with that incredible uh motorcycle.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:04

I'm sorry, there's not I have nothing bad to say about the back scene.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:07

It was fucking peak, resident evil, like that over-the-top, like kind of corny, but just over the top, brilliant. So like when he's driving.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:19

You have the guns you pulled out of the arcade machine, it feels just like that.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:22

It did feel like that. It was great. And I mean, I'm sure we all can recall that moment when he's like driving up this building that's partially collapsed and then jumps across. Yeah, like that is so over the top.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:35

Exactly what you can't help but smile and go, Yo! Like, just have a just a real reaction to it.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:41

And that was the perfect remedy to what I feel was a portion of the game just previous to that, where I was like, alright, you know, that like I just want to see what happens next in the narrative, and while I'm still having a good time blowing zombies' heads off, which is you know combat's great. The combat is yeah, yeah, it's effortlessly, effortlessly wow, okay. Effortlessly effortlessly it's effortlessly um just enjoyable. Um but yeah, I did I don't know if you had any points on that part, but I did feel that like, okay, are we really retrieving this many ideas?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:16

I I I'll be honest with you, I actually have a separate interpretation, and this might surprise you, and this might actually surprise my audience as someone who has gone out of his way to to talk about how he likes more intimate moments. I fucking love that section. Really? I I think what it is, is you have so many moments as Grace where you really do get and and and maybe this has to do with more the way I played it the first time, where I was I was with an audience, I was taking breaks, I was getting lost in different conversations, I was definitely overlooking stuff, which is why it's nice that I played this game again before recording this episode. Um but um you have all these intimate moments as Grace that are briefly intercut with kind of fun, bombastic moments as Leon. And so there was a moment, and and I don't get tired of intimate horror, but there was a moment where I was like, I just don't know how much further the game can push me in this way. And then when they bring Leon into his full segment, and you have this opportunity to just fucking I guess it's it's like a relief. It's it's it is a complete decompression. And and it when you're talking about horror, I can see it the real criticism here of well, you don't want a decompression. Maybe you want a slight decompression, but you don't want it all completely out. And I think there are moments, you know, you travel through the darkest hymn. The spider I'll I'll be completely real with you here. The spider-boss fight, and you can see it if you watch my stream. I was not a fan of it. I thought I I kind of was wondering if I was exaggerating when I was like kind of uncomfortable during my stream, and when I was re-recording it last night and I got to the spider fight, I was like, nope, wasn't exaggerating. This part really bums me out. Um I really don't like spiders. So that worked for me. But that's that's a little specific.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:03

It was so fun.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:04

It was fun. No, it was a fun fight, and you know, you get past that. I I've been I mean, I've been playing horror games forever. I fought a spider, I fought plenty of spider.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:12

No, but if I'm not mistaken too, though, it also lends itself to the over-the-top nature that is the second portion of the game because last time I checked, spiders don't have teeth. And I know that this is like a mutated spider, it's massive. It literally has like a maw like to that.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:28

I true like I know I know the genuine, like the the accepted shape of a spider face, but like I've heard spiders have fangs.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:38

Well, that some do, right? But generally speaking, I thought it with a loud speaker outside. Sorry about that, folks. Um but generally speaking, I was like, okay, this is exactly what I need. It's like over the top, all of a sudden this spider has like teeth and this gaping maw that it's trying to like eat you with.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:54

It's a lot less personal. It's not it's it's again for someone like me who and I've actually made this point, like, oh, arachnophobia only in uh affects like I think 25 to 35% of Americans. So it actually could be more than that, but that's what I remember.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:10

I would feel like it would be more. I mean arachnophobia feels rather ubiquitous, but for for the wrong reasons.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:16

Like, I think that's what I looked into. It just like I I cited that source randomly in a video once, and I think I've just hung on onto that. Well, I don't know. But um, however many people it affects, it doesn't affect everyone. But I have cited the source later of like, oh, what if you saw it when I was talking about McGrath's corner for the first time in one of my videos? I was like, oh, if I said the scariest thing in the world was behind this corner, and then I panned around, there was a spider, it that only affects a certain amount of people. So that part happened to affect me, which might have influenced. I was like, oh, there's still horror elements here.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:45

But beyond that, I think we can agree that the game like the gameplay itself, it's fucking fun. Oh, yeah, no. Dude, throwing an axe that you've knocked out of a zombie's hand into a different zombie, spearing them.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:58

Yeah, no, I had a really good time with all that. I remember specifically being really engaged as a player and just like I absolutely adored the section when you're Leon and you're at the gas station, and like you have that standoff where there's fire everywhere, and then there's this one. By the way, so I love who put that fucking helmet on this zombie.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:21

No, I don't you encounter like three or four zombies with spike helmets. And you're like, wait, who did that? Did he do that? That umbrella? What were they testing?

SPEAKER_03 1:05:30

But I was like, okay, this is so badass when you're presented with a chainsaw razor almost. Yeah, it is. But yeah, you're presented with a chainsaw, he has a chainsaw, and you're like, alright, let's have at it. Oh, dude. They love a chainsaw fight. Ethan Winters had a chainsaw fight. Ethan Winters did have a chainsaw fight. With also who the fuck made that scissors chainsaw? Which that's a whole nother conversation.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:51

This, and I think that we might mention that we might get back to this, and I think this is an appropriate time for it. The resident evil of it all. Yeah. You know, that this is. What we love about Resident Evil is that beyond whatever intimate moments of horror, whatever action moments of horror, is that this series genuinely has a real personality. The design of any main stage that you ever encounter, no matter what the context of that stage is, is always gonna have some convoluted fucking locking system. Why the hell? There's always gonna be three. Okay, in the main hospital you started, there's three tiers of wristband you need to occur. In the Raccoon City Police Department, which yes, people have informed me and I remember was a museum originally. Yeah. Um you have to fucking find gemstones to get into like crucial police offices. Is every officer expected to know that? Um it Resident Evil 7. The Baker House is the ultimate version of this. Because I I believe it it was it was indicated that the architect who made a lot of the Resident Evil structures, for whatever reason, came to the Baker House and did that there was a lot of things.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:05

I have not heard about this, but I mean it wouldn't surprise me. There is a guy who's responsible, yeah. It is funny to think that like because and now this is a bit of a side tangent, but it is one that I'm excited about. So I will go down that rabbit hole because I love this game. But Resident Evil 7 is so interesting to me because like when you put on those like studious glasses and you're really looking at it from a logical lens, you're like, well, because the bakers are portrayed before they're infected as like this normal family living out in the bayou. Middle class, rural, like but then they have a fucking like shadow mirror like in their living room that is like a puzzle.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:44

And it's like if you start to think about it too much, then they have a statue that if you put a shotgun on it opens a fucking industrial iron door.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:53

And it's like, alright, I'm gonna I'm gonna suspend this belief for a moment just because I like the like you're saying, the resident evil of it all. But it is like what the hell? Yeah, when you start looking at it, don't don't read into it too much, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:07

But even if I do read into it, and I I hate to override your it's not even an override though, because it I think it so, okay, I have heard th through I I think I was initially told by my chat, um, or rather maybe a comment on maybe one of my earlier Ethan Winter's videos, that uh there is an architect in the Resident Evil universe who's responsible for putting together a lot of the buildings that are like the most iconic. This includes the Raccoon City Police Department that you experience in Resident Evil 2 and now once again Resident Evil 9. And apparently, this is the part where I don't even know how to contextualize this. Apparently, this dude went out to Louisiana and for one reason or another constructed a house in the bayou. And my question is this lore experts, whoever you are, it I justify it for me. Justify it before they're infected, because they're they they truly were infected by accident. They just were in the wrong place, wrong time. That's that's how the lore works out when the connections just happen to crash there. That's how it goes. But then justify it after. Umbrella in Resident Evil 7 actually had very little to do with what was going on. So so why? Why was he actually there? And why was he doing all of Why was he doing? Why do I have to find three dog heads to go out the front door of the house? If anything, that's a fire hazard. Yeah, it is a fire hazard. Genuinely a real fire hazard. Absolutely it is. I want to move this computer real quick.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:40

Yeah. Oh, and then you know they also have the uh Oh, what is it? Oh yeah, when you go down into the basement of the Baker home too. And I know we're going on a table. Yeah, they have a dissection room, and it's like Okay, here's what I'll say.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:54

It's implied that they might be hunters. Oh, okay. Because they have like a game room and they have like mounts on the walls, and they have guns around, obviously, and they're in the bayou, so I have okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:07

Okay, I I had a thought, folks. Okay. Okay, so I first wanted to say absolutely it could be implied that they're hunters too, because even if they're in like a demented state after they had been infected, there were still elements of their original humanity in them. The deer couch the deer. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:23

Well, that's not humanity, but I mean like that's still a part of them.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:27

Where it's just like, yeah, it was the like even in the first scene when you're walking as Ethan, and there's this weird display of like, I believe it's like deer legs being made in that display. Yeah. But what I wanted to talk about and how I want to interweave this into our discussion of Resident Evil 9 is specifically how there are still like each one of the enemy zombies are still imbued with a bit of their humanity. That was really interesting. In the same way, you know, and I mean to talk like with Jack, you know, how he operates in the way that he does. But I And he does have a different virus. That's worth mentioning just for the record. But that is a good point. Yeah. But I did want to talk about um how one of the most striking moments in Resident Evil 9 for me, and it wasn't even like a big moment. It's pretty early. I think I know what you're talking about. You might know, where you're walking through the hall, like one of the wings in the hospital as Grace, and you gun down one of the zombies, and this zombie uh woman says, like, she gurgles out, I'm sorry. Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:31

No, that's not what I was thinking of, but yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:33

But it's like it's moments like that when you're like, oh, where does this fall morally?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:40

Some of them I I believe I heard say, help me.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:43

Yeah, help me. Yeah. And then the cook chopping and preaching into soup. Yeah. Like, and yeah, he goes next. Yeah, there's clearly still elements of their character, of who they were, that are almost, it seems like, trapped inside of this hellish reality that they've now been experiencing. And it's it's curious to be.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:02

It's it's it's fascinating. Well, what I thought you were talking about was gonna be the singers. Because the singers are just two of them. And and and I I haven't looked deeply into this. This is actually one of the lore things I didn't research before this, because I actually did check up on certain lore things to make sure that I understood what was happening. This is one of the things I I kind of wanted to spend some time thinking about on my own. You only encounter two of them, and you also encounter documents about them. Yeah, there's a weird implication that there's something more to them. And I also, when I was checking through the challenges of Resident Evil 9, noticed that one of the greatest challenges, which is also called the final puzzle, has something to do with the song. Yeah. And I didn't, I I full disclosure, I'm sure I'm sure some people listening know what this is, know what the answer is. I don't. But there's something about those two characters that I'm like, what is that? Yeah. What is that? I because for one thing, they're stronger characters, so there's an implication that there's something greater to them. Some characters are bigger, and you're like, okay, but they had something going on. And by the way, that reminds me of another point I really want to talk about, but that might come later. I want to talk about Emily in a second. But let's but but to that point, there's something about the singers that I find so interesting, and it there's a huge once I actually said this on stream for a little bit. And and I think we could I think it's worth mentioning now so we can actually interlace this into our further discussion. Resident Evil 9 to me is a game about tragedy. Or not about, but at least interwoven with tragedy. The tragedy of Leon as a character, the tragedy of Grace's history, the tragedy of pretty much every orphan's experience, the tragedy of Raccoon City. The tragedy and also Spencer's uh the this hugely relevant character, Spencer's perspective on all of that. And and and I think we we start to see that pretty early on, especially once we watch Grace watch her mother die.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:59

But beyond that, I think Leon also exemplifies tragedy I th I mean absolutely, just to kind of like uh you know hop onto that point a little bit where it was pretty momentary. I think that there was a bigger overarching theme that you're describing about Leon and tragedy, but there was the moments when you get back into Raccoon City and RPD and all these things, and there are these flashbacks, which we momentarily uh touched on, but like how it the Kendo gun shop. Yeah, how it shows like this very clear like regret that Leon has been carrying with them for I mean what 30 years now? Yeah. Something along those lines.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:39

I'll tell you what, and I'm sorry to interrupt, but I just I like I said, I I was replaying this game in preparation today, and and maybe you remember this, maybe you don't, but but in that Kendo gun shop, when he encounters the skull of I can't even tell.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:52

I i I have to imagine it's the man, not the daughter, because it seems bigger, but I think so too, purely for the fact that I don't know, even these kind of games kind of like to steer away from overly great. They don't like childhood. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:05

I mean, well, I don't know, the Emily stuff. We're gonna get into that. That's that is a little bit. Um but either way, uh it's funny because you you even remember in Resident Evil 2, because it does do that flashback you were talking about, that Leon was very regretful that he couldn't help the daughter or the the the father who seemed pretty resigned to sacrifice himself out of this kind of chaotic devotion to his daughter, which makes I don't know. There's not a logic to something like that. That's love, that's that's emotion, that's pure overriding. But when Leon remembers that in Resident Evil 9, are like 30-ish years later, he's still with true emotion in his voice, and credit to the voice actor and and whoever was responsible for for creating Leon's character in this game, he says, I'm I'm sorry that he couldn't help them. Yeah. He when when Leon's very first day on the job, idealistically portraying the best version of a cop that that one is the the the archetypal good cop that one is meant to imagine when they imagine what cops are meant to be, and we're gonna leave it at that. Um on his very first day, Leon watched the city he was meant to work in get destroyed, and from that moment on he never had a moment where he got to actually normally regularly help people. He was always going after the president's daughter or fighting an infection apocalypse, like that specific moment when you when you are exploring RPD, I and I I remarked on this. I think I had a whole monologue about it when I was streaming. I might remember some of that because I was popping in and out. It made me really sad. Yeah. But but he wanted to be a public servant, and instead he became a special agent. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:55

And that's that's hard. It's also just really tragic when you start to like and this is maybe more Resident Evil 2 lore than anything else, but how genuinely excited everybody at RPD was to like welcome.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:09

And you get even more of that in RE9 when you see these documents that like.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:13

But it's like, man, they were just excited to have this new guy on the team, and he had so much like opportunity and to see that get stolen from him is it's interesting. Like it it is, in a sense, a tragedy as well as uh you know horror piece.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:26

So it is very likely through context clues, and also it's kind of overtly told to you in later sections, that Leon probably kills in zombified form every member of the team that just like a day or two ago that he would have been partners with. Um and it's really sad. And I think actually what um what what maybe even motivates this point further, like the thought about this, is the f is Sherry's inclusion. Is the fact that this this one girl, the one you know, i in every game, Leon kind of accomplishes helping one or maybe one or two people. Um and so I actually think that there is a lot of impact in the fact that this this little girl that he helped in the most terrifying situation of all time has maintained a relationship with him in a professional setting where they're helping each other. And this brings me to one specific point that I mentioned to you early that earlier that made me weirdly uncomfortable that I wanted to talk about. And this is the question of later in the game, and we're we're skipping around here a little bit now. Later in the game, Leon, after he has cured this this T virus infection, again, spoil I don't know if we gave a spoiler in case. Okay, hold on. Also, please. No, no, no. No, there's there's there's a lot of that, but but but we're and we're gonna get to that, but uh here's I just want to talk about this now.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:52

Now that we're so far into this, spoiler warning.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:56

Yeah, spoiler warning. Okay, we're gonna yeah, but I'll I'll I'll put a I'll put in the description. There you go. After Leon is no longer dealing with some of the shit he's been dealing with, he puts on a wedding ring.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:11

And there's no further indication of who he's married to other than that specific moment. Uh developer said that the ring indicates a person to return home to, and that the person would be revealed in later episodes. Now, obviously, there's a lot of theories about who this could be. The two biggest ones, do you know who they are? We had talked about it momentarily, but you'll have to reiterate. The the the two I th the two that make the most sense to me, and I have my guess, uh, is either Claire Redfield. Right, because obviously there's the whole meme about Chris Redfield being like, Leon, fuck my sister. But um let's that's not even worth mentioning. But the one I believe in is that uh it's Ada Wong who was uh do you remember who she was? No. She was like a special operative, she actually had a a a part in um Resident Evil 2, and she she was also in Resident Evil 4. I I I think she's played a role in a number of these games. Um I don't remember the government agency agency that she worked for, but she was like a spy that tended to interact with Leon in a bunch of his uh his games, uh, and they always had like a kind of flirty relationship. I think even and this is something I don't know specifically about, but I think I saw in some of my research earlier that in later iterations and maybe even some non-game content, they were implied to have a relationship. Also, and this is just worth mentioning because some people think there's well, we'll talk about this in a second. It's also uh I I'm it I saw it mentioned in the lore that the reason Leon was late for work the day of his first day at the RPD, uh the beginning of Resident Evil 2, was because he had been dumped by his girlfriend and had a one-night stand with a random woman the night before Resident Evil 2 begins. And so we're gonna get into this in a second, but this is the reason some people theorize that Grace Ashcroft is Leon Kennedy's daughter. But we'll Yeah, I know. I know, but we'll talk about that in a second. Because I believe that Leon Kennedy, my belief is that Leon Kennedy is married to um Ada Wong. That is my belief. I think it makes the most sense. I think Claire would be funny, but I don't think that they've interfaced as much. I think Ada plays a great, a much greater role in Leon's life than Claire does, although I haven't played later games in the series that might change that factor, so I'm not certain. But that's my belief. Now here's the thing that makes me uncomfortable. There are certain people who believe that Leon is married to Sherry. That would be terrible. And that specifically is not a vibe for me. Again, I'm not certain. Is her name Sherry for sure? It's definitely Sherry.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:50

Well, now you have any questions. Okay, I know.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:51

I'm uncertain, but the character- okay, if we're getting it wrong in this episode, you're gonna put in the comments and that's fine. But the character that he's talking to over the phone, who he originally met in Resident Evil 2 as a little girl when he was, again, in his 20s. I would consider that grooming. That's what I would consider that too. Now again, I I don't know when Leon would have time to do any grooming because he's always fucking in Africa or whatever, doing crazy shit to zombies. But um, either way, I I I certainly hope that is not the case. And if that's what the Resident Evil devs devs intended, then they have until the next game to ret con that into something else. It would be very easy to make it Ada. That is my professional recommendation, Devs. But anyway, listening. I've heard a lot of people saying that. That's crazy. Yeah, and I've been being like, I hope.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:43

I never once, I never once considered that.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:46

Right, but I'm not.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:48

Yeah, that would be. They have time to correct if.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:51

Yeah, it just look, yeah, okay. But do you want to talk about that other thing? Other thing. Resident Evil uh uh uh Resident Evil being Grace's father. Leon Kennedy. Yeah, Resident Evil, the main character of the Resident Evil series. I love him. But no, Leon Kennedy, so okay, here's the idea. Grace Ashcroft's mom, do you remember what her name was? Mrs. Ashcroft, you'll call her. Mrs. Ashcroft um was a journalist in Raccoon City. Um Leon Kennedy was a cop heading to Raccoon City. According to certain fan theories, it's not impossible that the two of them could have met up. In fact, uh uh it is very heavily implied, if not outright stated, in Resident Evil 9 that, again, spoilers, we're gonna say this now. Uh Spencer is uh Grace's adoptive father. Right. Um I can't say for certain whether the mother that were shown by Grace is her actual like biological mother. It would certainly they look similar, so I wouldn't like I would believe that to be the case, but we're never given an actual like biological father for Grace. The questi uh uh rather, the the the theory posited by certain parts of the community is that Leon Kennedy and Grace Ashcroft's mother, Mrs. Ashcroft, as again I'm calling her, um met in a bar or a hotel or met in some space and had a one night encounter that resulted in Mrs. Ashcroft becoming pregnant. And that the reason Leon has such an affinity for protecting Grace throughout the course of Resident Evil 9 is because it is a paternal instinct. Now, I don't necessarily agree that that behavior is a clue. I think that Leon has been illustrated to be a character who, when presented with the opportunity to defend an innocent person, will do everything in his power to. I believe that is simply his character. However, I do think it is interesting as a theory.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:02

Yeah, certainly.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:03

And this is unrelated to who he's married to, because he's definitely not married to her mom now. Because, again, she got her neck all cut into uh all cut up. All cut up. That's how the doctor put it in. The doctor was like, I'm sorry, she died of a clinical case of getting all scratched up with a big with a big machete by an by a faceless guy who is not named and immediately dies of gunshot wounds and burns alive. Uh well, I I don't uh maybe he's already dead. But either way. Um I think that's interesting. I wouldn't be mad if that was Yeah. How would you feel about that?

SPEAKER_03 1:25:40

I mean, I'd feel fine about it. I I think it's an interesting theory. It's definitely entertaining. So it would open the door to a lot of interpersonal just storytelling, I suppose, between Grace and Leon, because it does give off the vibe that, you know, as they stay in contact when the final credits are rolling, um, how they were on the phone together and everything like that, and there there could be something there, like a uh paternal thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:06

But but it could also just be like, hey, we're we're two professionals in the government who had an encounter together, it's probably worth staying in contact. So if there's any kind of reading for that, it's really interesting. Um in the pursuit of keeping this podcast not infinitely long. I'd like to move on to a different question for you now. Emily. Oh shit. No, yeah, no, we should no, we should start with Emily. I was gonna talk about Elpis, but I think we should start with Emily. Yeah. Um I don't even have a I don't have a specific question, but I I am curious like just do you have a do you have any thoughts off the get-go about that character? I really liked her as a character. Sure. Yeah, I thought that uh Child actors are hard for me. Yeah. I think it was probably an adult actress that as I was hearing it. I was listening to her recently. I think it was. Yeah, it could have been.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:53

Um by the way, I just again I want to reiterate that I think everybody on the team and on the voice casting and all that, they they did amazing. Really great job.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:03

Like Grace increased. I I believe I heard that Grace was also a new voice actress. Oh, I must have been. Is that true? I'm not sure. I I I think I heard that Lady Dimitresque was which is really impressive because she did a great job. No Romanian accent, but fine. Um and I think I also heard that Grace was. That would be But I'm not certain. Crazy if so. I mean, like she she did a great job.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:24

Some people I've heard the sentiment that they got they grew tired of how uh not whimpery, but how like she was very reactive to the things happening around her and just vocal about it.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:35

Hey man, tell me how you'd sound. Yeah, I think that's my question.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:38

Yeah. And I also think that like it only added to like the the fear factor that was going on there. I think I think it was really well done and she she deserves all the praise that she's received. But I digress.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:49

Here's what I'll say. I think at her most quote unquote annoying i i i i rather Grace is her most like irritating as a character. During her flashback with her mother, when she's a teenager, and she's like, You pick up the phone, ma blah blah blah blah blah. But to me, that's intentional and it reads as just like them trying to write a teenager and but keeping the same voice actor, and she does nothing else to her voice, so you're like, Okay, she's basically the same age to me, but again, she's eight years younger at that point, so I don't know. But but otherwise, it's dude, she was in a pretty rough spot. Can I tell you one of my favorite moments? I just remembered it. Um, right at the end of the section where you were gathering all the batteries to uh release Emily from the prison cell. Yeah. Um, and you're in the elevator, and you're you you help Emily out as Grace, and then you start to crawl out, and then right at the end, the girl grabs your leg, and your the cables on the elevator, they're starting to wear away, they start snapping, and there's this moment where this is also interestingly, the first time the girl speaks, she says, play with me, and that indicates that's that's a little clue onto the true nature of what's going on with Emily and the Chloe project, as I've heard it referenced. But the elevator falls, and you hear a gore impact, you hear the sound of like, you know, something being severed, and Grace screams and cries in a very visceral way that it probably in the moment just comes from the trauma of everything she's experienced. But truly you're led to believe that she just got and actually that's a big fear of mine that I would leave an elevator and halfway through leaving it, it would fall and like cut my legs off or cut me in half or hit me. It's an unpleasant thought. Oh, it sounds terrible. I think you what gave me that fear was American Horror Story Season 1, because they do that. Um but the game fakes you out. It does a an intentional camera motion where you really think you're about to cut uh pan down to a stumpy leg, but it's fully there. That moment weirdly was very impactful for me.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:55

I was like really, really well done. Because then also after the fact, there's a moment where they just take a breath, uh Grace and Emily, and just take an inventory and dude. Oh my god. But it was also a moment of uh connection for the two of them because they end up hugging, if I'm not mistaken. And I don't know, I think that that was.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:15

They gain a lot of connection over the course of what's realistically like a couple hours. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:20

But yeah, so I thought that was really well done as well. I appreciated that scene.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:24

But but back to specifically Emily, and I know that we got very caught up in things. I think her inclusion's really interesting because um Resident Evil loves to throw a child at you every now and then and just see how you feel about it. In you know, in the earlier ones, they were like, oh, keep this child safe, and then in later ones they're like, oh no, this child's the villain, but it's also a grandma, and it's it's complicated and just kill it, whatever. Um but but I actually think Emily's inclusion is especially good because especially they they have this gameplay element that's barely relevant, like I didn't need to use it at all, where you can put Emily down to go do stuff. And I suppose that's like if you have like unfinished business after you start that point up, you can like go do it and then come back, which I appreciate. But like whenever I got attacked uh by a zombie while holding Emily, Emily's very reactive. She she whimper she's blind, if you don't know. Um she whimpers and responds to pretty much every bad thing that happens to Grace, including her deaths, which are the most tragic moments for Emily. Because she's like, Grace! Grace! It's it's not fun. Uh but uh you feel a great responsibility for this character. And I've um my girlfriend's actually she has a really hard time with children and horror because she is so empathetic to them. But to me, a good child actor, and this is why I like skinmering so much, a good child actor can elevate horror really heavily because part of what makes a child actor good is the innocence, and I think part of what makes the innocence so tangible is a child's blatant misunderstanding of the reality of the situation they're in. Now that's very easy with a blind character like Emily, but like for instance, for something like Skin American, you're just dealing with characters who are so young that a lot of reality is very surprising to them, so they don't know when something's actually weird. Um and so uh to to put a not to put too fine a point on it, but I think that Emily is what turns Grace from a scared child into a brave woman. Because she's terrified the whole time. But once once she starts actually caring about Emily, she becomes capable of a lot. No, she does a lot of really impressive stuff.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:35

Yeah, no, I totally agree. And I think that is exactly what I wanted to see from a character like Grace as she starts out as this very just scared individual as any person would be, but seeing that kind of arc with her was really uh satisfying. And I thought that the implement or yeah, I guess I suppose yeah, the implementation of Emily as a character into the the story was really uh I think it served the story a lot and it made it a better a better one.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:03

Yeah. It it's it's nice to give something stakes because it's very relatable to be um to to be fighting for you know s survival. You know, I I think survival horror is the name of the genre pretty much for all of these games. Silent Hill, Resident Evil, Outlast, all that good stuff. Um but but I I think in a in a more personal sense surviving for yourself is very like intrinsic and and primal, but surviving for the sake of someone else, or rather surviving or rather enduring more because basically that entire prison section could have been skipped if she didn't care about Emily. She could have just avoided it. Um but putting yourself in harm's way in i for the sake of people who you love, but also in this instance, and that's why we love Ethan Winters, because that's what he does, that's defines his character. But also in this instance, not even someone you love, someone you met a second ago, but who you have a basic human empathy for.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:02

And that a basic human empathy for, but also recognizing that sh put Emily in that position.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:10

She put Emily in that position, but Emily, to be fair, was already in a pretty bad position herself.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:15

Yeah. But it is curious.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:16

They were they they really truly did depend on each other from a very early stage. And it's weird. I remember joking, like, hey, little blind girl, I'm gonna let you out so you can solve the braille puzzle for me. But then at the end of the day, it's like, no, Grace did care about her. She was basically willing to die after she believed Emily was gone. And uh I think that's actually that's actually potentially a good transition to maybe the last topic that we should talk about for Resident Evil 9, which is all of the stuff that happened at the end. Because there's a because okay, let's first things first, let's call talk about Wesker slash Zeno. Right. Mr. Whitehair, yellow eye, glasses won't wear a jacket the right way.

unknown 1:34:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:58

I love that. I actually, it's so stylish. I do kind of love it. I see it in anime all the time, and Resident Evil as a series does kind of have a bit of an anime aesthetic. Yeah. But um, dude, so he's called Xeno, allegedly. I believe he's called that before he dies in Resident Evil 9. But the character he's meant to portray is a guy named Wesker. Do you know anything about Wesker? So I did not while I was playing the game. Um But you know one thing about him that I don't even know if you know about, but let's talk. But we'll get to it. Continue.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:30

But that I have since done my due diligence to research his character, and now I have a greater understanding of his um his place in Resident Evil 9. But yeah, when I was playing it, I actually did not. Like when I'm sure for a lot of people was a huge reveal, like, oh my god. Like that one didn't strike me. I was like, this guy seems important.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:48

That's what I was saying. I was like, it feels like you really need to know some of these other games. Like, most of the game you can totally do on your own, but for a lot of the later stuff, you gotta know what kind of what you're getting into. And that's why I had to do some research after the fact that made it more fun to return to. But here's the one thing I don't think uh you might have noticed. At the very end of Resident Evil 7, you Chris Redfield drops a gun on the ground that you pick up. It is called what? The Albert. Wesker's name is Albert Wesker. I believe that is his gun. Oh shit. Yeah. It's kind of interesting. I am not certain if that is the case, but that is what I've been led to believe by my research. That's cool. Yeah, it's kind of interesting. Um so can I tell you what I love? And now we're in real, real spoiler territory. Can I tell you what I love? Go. That every villain in the movie is or movie, is the game, is already destined to fail because they're like, oh, we found the secret mind control virus, and it's actually like, oh no, it's a good guy, sorry, fuck you, virus. That will save people. Mm-hmm. Well, how do you feel about that?

SPEAKER_03 1:36:51

I liked it a lot.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:52

Interesting reveal.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:53

Because like that reveal at the end when we were looking at the videos, like Spencer's videos about Grace and about Elpis, that was really intriguing, and that's why at the end of the game I chose to release Elpis. I actually made the wrong choice for you.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:08

Yeah, I was like, I promised Leon I would destroy it. Oh I did destroy.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:14

But so it's not only until after I'd completed the game that I looked at the other ending because I was just curious of what the end that it looked like. I was like, oh, that's way better. And I was like, oh my that ending's so depressing. So depressing to die in the dark. Yeah. So short, so depressing. We get a head.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:34

Oh, dude. I did that on stream and I was like, I've made a mistake. I was like, guys, if this can't, I know I made the wrong choice. So we'll yeah. And then we did the real ending, it was like, oh cool, another boss fight.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:48

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no. Oh, Christ. Um, I felt that it was fitting. I thought it was a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:37:53

Oh no, the dying in the dark, that's a fake out. That actually is part of the good ending. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, Leon gets shot in the fucking head. I forgot about that. Yeah, no, you're right. It was insane. Damn.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:02

But yeah, no, I I I was very satisfied with the ending of the game and how Spencer had instead decided to make an antiviral as the as Elpis. I thought that it was really well done. And too, that uh Victor, you know, um, our antagonist of the game, Gideon, he still wanted to utilize it as a weapon, which totally defeated the purpose of what Spencer wanted for.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:24

Oh dude, in that last boss fight where he was like, I'm still gonna figure this out, I was like, this is this is a fight against a guy who genuinely doesn't have a plan anymore. Yeah. Yeah. Because he's so devoted to his concepts. He's he believes Grace is this key figure, and then at the end he's like, No, she's just some uh she's just a girl. She actually is not even related to everything that's been happening here, which is the biggest red herring. That's so funny, actually.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:49

No, it was really well done.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:50

Uh, and I actually, I when I was on stream, and again, you can go back and re-listen to this or watch this, I totally misinterpreted a lot of stuff. I thought, first I thought Grace was a precursor, then I thought all of the clones were actual that they became Mr. X, but then I I th I thought that because they they talked about that and then Mr. X, like I knew Mr. X is But no, but I and then I looked into it, I was like, no, they were mass-produced, that's why there's more of them. Okay, whatever. Um, but then I I thought um that she was like a precursor, like she was the genetic blueprint that all the girls were based off of. Oh, yeah. I don't believe it's any of that. I believe truly she's just a girl that Spencer in this weird end of his life regret moment just decided to take pity on.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:34

Because the only reason I have reason to believe that she's not like the precursor to all the clones is because she would have recognized herself in Emily.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:43

I that's the same thing. I was like, oh, because I kept being like, oh, this doesn't make sense, wouldn't she have recognized it? But that's actually the logic I should have been following. I was misinterpreting that she's not.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:53

And I I think and what's interesting is I was actually making the same assumption, I was drawing the same conclusions as most of the antagonists of the game were, which was like, well, if Spencer cared about her and they defended her this much, and she's got blonde hair like, or I guess bleach blonde hair like all these other little girls, she's probably related in some way, but no, she just she's just a testament, I guess, to the humanity of even the worst people in Resident Evil 7 or Resident Evil. Just the whole series. It's really interesting.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:23

Great game, good game. Would play again.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:26

Truly.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:26

And playing again. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:28

I'm gonna I'm gonna do my third playthrough in like a day here. It's so funny. Um, but also, I uh so I I think we've covered most of the actual game here. It's really interesting. There's still unanswered questions. I truly I thought Leon was gonna die in this game.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:41

I had reason to believe so as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:42

Yeah. The bad ending he does, but um, but in in the good ending, which I believe to be the canon ending, he doesn't. Yeah. But I I really thought he was gonna die. Um, who do you think he's married to?

SPEAKER_03 1:40:54

I don't know. I'd have to like look into it's definitely great. Would you would would you love it? That would be amazing.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:01

Oh my god. That would be awesome. Yeah. Alright. Alright, I want to talk about some of the more basic stuff. Like let's like rapid fire, just little thoughts about stuff. First of all, he was so hot. Yeah. Leon was so hot in this game. He had a little stubble going on. He had stubble. A man cut his neck with a knife and he acted like it was barely happening. Like he he is a I I don't believe nonchalot nonchalant is like a sexy feature for a person to have. I think it's actually kind of cringe. Like being like, oh, I don't know who you are. I don't care. I'm pretending not to know what's going on because I think it's not cool to have interests or whatever. Like whatever. But I think Leon is not nonchalant. He is he is He's just hot. I don't know. I don't have a I don't have a uh a different He he he he's he he exhibits a level of of demigodlike self-control and self-sacrifice that he's like, yeah, fucking cut my neck. I don't care. When was the last time you brushed your teeth? The woman gets cut fucking stabbed with a chainsaw in the back and he goes, I think I want a second opinion. Dude, hey that hey man. I get it, I get it, but like a little compassion goes a long way. Yeah, yeah. No, he was great in this game. Oh, he was so hot. Um I I do love Grace. I love Grace. I think Grace is a great new addition to this franchise.

SPEAKER_03 1:42:30

I absolutely agree. Yeah. I was um very interested in learning more about her character. I thought the voice again, I know I keep reiterate reiterating this point, but she did an amazing job as a voiced voice actress making uh Grace come to life.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:43

I wish I knew the the names of the people responsible for these characters. You can look them up yourself. They're not hard to find. I didn't do the research before beforehand, but I'm sure I will look into it at some point. Maybe I'll mention them in my video. But um, everyone involved, voice actors specifically, did a great job. Again, I do want to go back to that point earlier of the FBI director not being a villain, but still being one of the meanest people in this fucking game. Why would you do that? Because it's funny, when it first happened, I was like, okay, she knows her mom was killed here. I didn't think that she was actively present. Witnessing it, yeah. That's it. That I truly don't I and I I it happened for the game. It happened for for the game to happen. But looking like I can't imagine the FBI FBI doesn't have one other guy to one any other person. Truly a different analyst. Again, she's not even a field agent. Yeah. Oh, God. No, I love it. I truly had a great time with this game, and I'm I am I I'll be honest with you, I'm struggling to decide whether it has overtaken Resident Evil 7 as my favorite in the franchise.

SPEAKER_03 1:43:55

I've been thinking about that a lot. And I think it's just because of the amount of admiration that I have for Resident Evil 7. It's still my favorite.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:03

Because Resident Evil 7 did something new. Yeah. It did or rather actually, people thought it wouldn't, but but it did manage to. It did something very new for Resident Evil, I'll say. And it did it well.

SPEAKER_03 1:44:13

It did it just so well. Because I I mean all the story beats everything except for the boat. No, but uh.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:19

The boat's fine, but it's just I want Ethan. Yeah. The boat's actually not that bad. Yeah. It gives some interesting context. I had to look into Connections, which was the group that Mia worked with, because they're mentioned a couple times in the game. I didn't realize how evil of a company Mia was working with. I thought she was just kind of related to Umbrella, but apparently, like, compared to Umbrella, Connections is like. I guess they're may Umbrella might be ethically worse, but Connections is like more violent. Like, I don't know. But like they're pretty bad. I was like, okay, so Mia's. I might have to reconsider my position on Mia as like a chill person. Like, what was she doing?

SPEAKER_03 1:44:57

But yeah, yeah. I I think I will have to give it more consideration and time before I make a you know a definitive decision on like, oh, which which game do I like more? Because it's also hard to to to try to compare the two because they're pretty different games ultimately. I mean, I think that Grace's section is very reminiscent of Resident Evil 7, but um they're just such different games, but they accomplish what they sought out to so extraordinarily well in both of their lanes, and I have nothing but love for them, yeah for sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:31

And Resident Evil 8 is fine. It's an okay. Resident Evil 8, it's cool, it's enjoyable. There's parts of it I like. I hate Heisenberg's section. I hate his entire level. It sucks. That one isn't uh I even mentioned in my video, I was like, I don't even have much to say about this part. It's just a lot of fucking bullshit.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:48

Big old nothing burger. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:50

Oh, metal guys with a weak point. Okay. Yeah. Anyway, Jeremy. Yeah. Thank you so much for joining me today. Thank you. It has been an absolute pleasure to have you on the podcast. It has been an absolute pleasure to have you as the first person on Habopo. I'm really happy to have you here. Um, is I I I know that you're you're not necessarily in the industry, but is there anything you're interested in plugging that you want to send people to? Or just any last thoughts or advice not even related to Resident Evil you would like to share with my incredible bonehead community?

SPEAKER_03 1:46:23

No, man. I mean, I I had a great time playing the game. If you haven't played it yet, why are you still listening to this? Go play it.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:29

Go do it, or watch someone play it if you're that kind of guy. There's no shame in that, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:33

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:34

Watch Market Player. I'm sure he did it by now.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:36

Umly other sentiments I have is taking.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:38

Or me. Do me, actually. Do me. Don't do Market Player, do me. Do him.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:42

Literally do it.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:42

Do me. Do me. No, no, no. Shut up. Never mind. Cut it. Cut it. Cut this. Cut that. Cut that.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:47

No, but my last sentiment is just, you know, take care of yourself. Thank you guys for listening to us. Just yammer about for hours.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:55

I have to suspect this is a pretty long episode. I'm not going to cut much, honestly. This will be actually a pretty easy edit for me.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:00

Yeah. Yeah. Give somebody a compliment today and have a good day. Do good if you can.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:05

Alright, Boneheads, thank you so much for joining us today. If you haven't, uh subscribe, like, do all that good stuff, rate and review. I don't uh uh if you're listening on one of the streaming services, I appreciate it. Um if you're listening on YouTube, um go ahead and share it to someone else. If you haven't seen the main channel, uh that's where my best work comes out, I'd say. Uh but hey, I really appreciate you all being here. I really appreciate you listening if you listened all the way through. Uh and I will see you guys next week. Sorry that this episode was a little bit late. Bye guys. Bye-bye.