Ep. 11 - How to Survive the Purge (Pt. 2) (feat. Logan McGrath)

The Purge, Scream, and The Shining- In tonight's episode of HoBoPo, Logan and I chat about our favorite horror projects and the most ridiculous parts of them. 

This podcast is likely not suitable for younger audiences.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:14

Howdy boneheads and welcome back to Habopo. This is part two of my conversation with my brother. I don't have much more to add, so enjoy. We took a long break. Do you remember where we were? We were talking vaguely about the purge, I think.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

Yeah, we've we've been on the purge for a good amount of time, but at this point. I mean, it it is a it is an interesting concept. It's a fascinating subject. It's a concept. And I it like a like kind of TLDR or this. Incredible concept executed very poorly.

SPEAKER_02 0:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

I literally looked at the the ratings for every movie. All of them are 55% to 45% on Rotten Tomatoes.

SPEAKER_02 0:53

Which isn't the worst when it comes to horror, but it's also not the best. I can say that much.

SPEAKER_01 0:59

It's definitely not the best. Um, okay It seems like the Purge Anarchy was the the most the favorite one though.

SPEAKER_02 1:04

Anarchy that was the second one? That was the one with the Statue of Liberty characters.

SPEAKER_01 1:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:10

I I recall that one being having like uh very evocative like uh No the the That was electioneer. I'm looking at Oh, really It was one of the two. Um the Purge here's what I say, and this is actually something I I've I've repeated before, is that you look at a market at the marketing for a movie, and the more evocative and the more over the top it is, the more destined that movie is to fail, in my eyes, because I think good marketing leaves you with questions, or rather, uh m good marketing for a good movie leaves you with questions about that movie that become answered by the movie. Good marketing for a bad movie shows you all the best parts of a movie and then makes the actual viewing experience worse.

SPEAKER_01 1:53

Exactly. The trailers show all the best parts of a movie. Exactly, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:56

Whereas all my favorite horror movies, they show you, like l they they show you a little bits of action. Like I definitely remember in Hereditary them showing in the trailer Tony Collette banging her head on the ceiling. But obviously, there was not enough context for you to understand why that was so horrifying. It was just kind of bad imagery. Meanwhile, I had no idea Charlie was gonna die in Hereditary. Like all of the real movies movies. Oh, it's a great movie. It used to be my favorite horror movie for a long time. Not anymore.

SPEAKER_01 2:26

Didn't you like didn't you love the Insidious movies at one point?

SPEAKER_02 2:29

Uh yes, but you know why? Because Insidio the first Insidious movie, James Wan, the same guy behind uh Saw and a number of other movies. Oh, I was very Yeah, James Wan. Insidious was the very first actual horror movie I watched in my life. I watched it with Saw Saw. Really? Saw one? The the original?

SPEAKER_01 2:51

Uh no, it was Saw 3D, the seventh one. Not exactly.

SPEAKER_02 2:58

Wait, wait, whoa, wait, whoa, whoa. Wait a second. That's crazy because you're not gonna get anything that's happening in that movie. Because every Saw movie just kind of built That's the thing. That's the thing about Saw. Okay. You know what I love about Final Destination that I don't love about Saw?

SPEAKER_01 3:16

This dog. What's yeah, what?

SPEAKER_02 3:19

Final Destination finds a way to tie all of its movies together with the general premise that when you get in death's way, death comes back and deals with you, right? Death comes to collect. It comes to collect, exactly, exactly. You get it. And with the sole exception of like maybe two characters from the entire franchise, death always wins. So you can tell any story with any number of characters, and you can always put it in a different landscape, and it can have the same theoretical tie-in. They've made seven wait, no. They've made s no, they've made seven movies by now. Seven movies, six, and then bloodlines. Yeah. The seven, I think. I love all of them. I love every single one of them. They're all great. Even the bad ones, they're all great. Um but what Saw does is it does the same thing of like, let's draw you in. The the the thing that makes people come to Final Destination movies is how are they gonna kill people crazy in this movie? And that's the same thing that people come to Saw for. But here's the one thing about Saw is they have to keep fucking making Tobin Bell relevant, the actor who originally played Jigsaw, who dies in either the second or third movie, but somehow the third is it the third? You remember that? I'm so proud of that.

SPEAKER_01 4:37

Yes, it is.

SPEAKER_02 4:38

I believe that. And I'm so proud of this.

SPEAKER_01 4:41

Not everyone's watching it, yeah. Yeah. I can't just nod. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 4:43

No, I appreciate yeah. Okay, third movie. Logan knows this. I appreciate that you know that it genuinely fills my heart with love and joy. But the fact is, they have to kind of keep making it about this dude the whole time. But he's been dead for a long time. So the longer you're like, oh yeah, he masterminded another entire system of traps. Not even just one trap, but like an entire moral foundation through which these traps are based. I'm like, dude, come on.

unknown 5:12

No.

SPEAKER_01 5:13

The boss isn't as fundamentally fine.

SPEAKER_02 5:14

Make it copycats at this point. Like, and I think they touched on that, but no, they keep just extending the narrative of Saw.

SPEAKER_00 5:23

The other guy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:24

No, and then and then they bring back the guy from Saw 1 all the way back in like Saw 5 or 6. I'm like, dude, what are we doing?

SPEAKER_01 5:31

Oh, the detective. But dude, Saw.

SPEAKER_02 5:33

No, the detective, but also the guy in the trap who cut his leg off. Yes. I don't know anyone's name from Saw.

SPEAKER_01 5:39

Me neither.

SPEAKER_02 5:40

I know Tobin Bellon, that's it.

SPEAKER_01 5:42

No, I I know John Kramer, I know Amanda. Right. Um that's about it. But uh Saw 10, the most recent one, prequel about John Kramer.

SPEAKER_02 5:51

By the way, that's not the most that's not the most recent one, right? Because after Saw 10, or rather Saw X, they did Jigsaw and Spiral.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

No, no, Jigsaw was nine.

SPEAKER_02 6:02

Wait, Jigsaw was nine?

SPEAKER_01 6:04

Mm-hmm. It was the movie where they were like, is John Kramer still somehow alive? He's not in his grave, but then it turns out, yeah, it was just a copycat killer.

SPEAKER_02 6:13

Man, what the fuck are we talking about, dude? There are too many.

SPEAKER_01 6:16

One, two, three, four, five, six, three D uh Spiral? No, it was Jigsaw then Spiral. So then Ted.

SPEAKER_02 6:24

And then Ted. Okay, so Ted and Lit wait, when did Sent come out then?

SPEAKER_01 6:28

Three years ago.

SPEAKER_02 6:30

Man. Do you know what the original or not original, but you know what the tagline for Saw used to be uh back in its like heyday? What? There was there or it wasn't the main tagline, but there was a tagline every time a new trailer for a new saw movie would come out, and it would be It's Halloween if it's Halloween, then it's Saw. Or like something along those lines.

SPEAKER_01 6:49

Oh, it's a fucking October exclusive, right?

SPEAKER_02 6:52

Every year, you got it every year a new saw comes out. And look, for diehards of the series, which unfortunately I am not, I actually do love Saw conceptually, and there are parts of it I love, and there are hugely iconic moments from most of the movies that I manage to remember, even the newer ones that I don't care about as much. Um The imagery of the eye trap is super The Eye Trap's interesting, the the reverse bear trap is obviously iconic. I always think about the shotgun caro uh the shotgun carousel.

SPEAKER_01 7:22

Which is not it does not go to his fucking thing at all.

SPEAKER_02 7:26

Uh it the yeah, the whole concept of jigsaw is like How much are you willing to lose together? To sacrifice, but no, you're just sacrificing people, but then also You're just killing him the other thing randomly. But then but also remember in Saw 1 when the woman has to stab the guy with the the tiny scalpel in the bear trap to get it's Manda, yeah. Um, to get like they always pretend oh Jigsaw's never killed a person, but in he's poisoned people, like just the internal logic of Saw is is kind of ridiculous to me. It's not as morally like complicated as people love to pretend.

SPEAKER_01 8:02

We don't kill people. Murder is wrong, yeah, yeah. Even though I set up this trap that fucking kills people.

SPEAKER_02 8:08

There there it's a weird series that ha but also it's been around forever and it's been taken over by a bunch of different people with different ideas about it.

SPEAKER_01 8:16

And so like Sot Time was fine. Thought Time was fine.

SPEAKER_02 8:19

I I have not seen SOT Time, I'll be perfectly honest with you about that.

SPEAKER_01 8:22

No, like it was not a it was not a flawless movie, and there were a couple scenes where I like some of the plot was lost, and there was like a really, really unfair trap. But there's a bunch of those three minutes, had to like cut open his head and take out like an ounce of gr of gray matter. What the hell? Like the brain grows back.

SPEAKER_02 8:46

Maybe Saw is such a flawed conspirat where it's like you must make this sacrifice. But there's so much else going on in every scene. It's like, yeah, the sac if you just want me to sacrifice logistically like a part of my human experience, that's one thing. But if you want me to experience genuine pain right now, that's a whole other thing. But can I tell you something? I always think about this. I don't you'll know which movie this is from because clearly you actually recognize the traps from the series better. Because I it's kind of just I haven't watched it in a long time. It's kind of all just a slurry in my brain of various traps and plot points. Oh, this cop was actually a good guy, but then he turns into a bad guy and he snaps himself in the throat, and he's Jigsaw now, and he's and he's getting drowned. He gives himself a tracheotomy. Yeah, all that stuff, all a bunch of stuff. And then this guy, he's he's or rather, Amanda, she's a victim, but then I guess she's Jigsaw's best friend for a while. Like, it's fucking like.

SPEAKER_01 9:38

No, but then she also falls in love with him, and then she starts designing traps that he like reprimands her for because they just do kill people.

SPEAKER_02 9:45

Because he has the weirdest morality system of all time. It makes sense. There's the guy who the trap is, he's like strapped to a table, and he has a button in each hand, and when he clicks the button on one hand, it stabs him in the eye, right? Do you know the trap I'm talking about? It lowers like a mechanical device, like he's got it's like literally trigger. It's I don't think no, that's like a not the pendulum, no, but it's literally it's almost like it's like a lever with a sharp thing at the end, and when the lever reaches his eye, it stabs him in the eye, and he has a button attached to both, and he has to stab himself in both of his eyes and blind himself to escape the trap. Do you know what I'm talking about? Kind of?

unknown 10:30

I vaguely do.

SPEAKER_01 10:31

Do you remember the one I know the one from Saw 10 where he has the dial where it's a bigger one? It breaks one of your fingers back and loses his eyes. I know that much. Oh my god, the the stab eye trap.

SPEAKER_02 10:42

His his survival, the his survival is predicated on him blinding himself. That's all I remember. Yes. But basically, he his trap's actually really easy. The eye gouged from saw six. Oh, is it top six? Yes, yes, yes, yes. Okay. So, okay, so you know what I'm talking about. His entire trap is actually very simple when you compare it to other soft traps. It's literally gouge yourself out in both of the eyes. And he actually has the easiest thing, which is if I click both these buttons at once, I'm gonna have a terrible time, but it's gonna be over immediately. But you know what he does? He clicks one of them, stabs himself in one eye, and then it's so painful that he can't click the other one and he dies. Click him at the same time.

SPEAKER_01 11:27

Literally, the ones where you have to do multiple things.

SPEAKER_02 11:29

Do it all at once. But you can't just do it all at once. Oh, dude, wait, the one where he has to like carry himself up.

SPEAKER_01 11:39

Tear his jaw off? Oh no, that's a different one. Impossible.

SPEAKER_02 11:41

Impossible. Yeah. Or not impossible, but I'm talking about the one where the guy he he lied about it earlier in the movie, but then he has to do it for real. Where he has to hook. Yeah! Is that what you're talking about?

SPEAKER_01 11:51

No, that's the one where he has to stab himself through his his nibble to the climb up the chains. Yeah to save his wife from a literal brazen ball.

SPEAKER_02 11:58

Yeah. That's so fucking stupid. It's so dumb.

SPEAKER_01 12:03

But uh in Saw 10. I know it's a uh I don't know if that's a phone number, so maybe blur that out. Just see your phone number? Anytime anytime that Rika jumps up, just can you do so much fucking editing then?

SPEAKER_02 12:15

Uh no, that's fine. I can make that happen. I can do a quick scan through. I just don't know what's I hold on, show me hold on, bring her up again. There's almost no way anyone's gonna be able to, especially with the lighting, no one's gonna be able to.

SPEAKER_01 12:26

I just I don't know, and I don't want my phone number or next being out there.

SPEAKER_02 12:29

No, I'll I'll check it, but uh I'm almost certain no one will be able to see it. But I'll see you.

SPEAKER_01 12:33

It's this it is.

SPEAKER_02 12:34

Yeah. Dude, no, no, that's no one's gonna be able to read that. But I'll I'll I'll I'll still check. I'll still check. I'll still check. Don't worry.

SPEAKER_01 12:42

Please. Yeah. Uh but in any case, so oh yeah, by the way. Uh three, two, one, back.

SPEAKER_02 12:49

I just slapped it. We're fine. I'll just cut that part out.

SPEAKER_01 12:51

Okay, cool. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:51

So This is not going out tonight, for the record. It's almost 8 30. Okay, cool. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

But in in Saw 10, there was that trap. I it was a hypothetical trap, like he was thinking about it. Like they show that like he like he's like designing all the time and he was thinking about it.

SPEAKER_02 13:04

It's still Tobin Bell, by the way.

SPEAKER_01 13:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:07

The original jigsaw is still in Saw 10? How old is Tobin Bell at this point? Old. He's 83!

SPEAKER_01 13:15

Yeah, but it doesn't hypothetical trap. It's it's the eye trap. Okay. But like all he has to do is turn this dial, and every single time you get like one click through, it'll break one of your fingers, starting at your pinky and your thumb. Just crank it! Just crank it! And I'm like, but then he waits, and then the eyes go obviously torn out of his face. But wait, is it like a pressure trap?

SPEAKER_02 13:36

Like it's gonna pull his eyeballs out?

SPEAKER_01 13:38

Oh, it's it's awful.

SPEAKER_02 13:39

That sounds gross. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 13:40

Uh, but we know for a fact that he's gonna be. That also wouldn't kill him.

SPEAKER_02 13:44

Does something else kill him?

SPEAKER_01 13:45

Yeah, oh yeah, it'll come. It'll come.

SPEAKER_02 13:47

Really? Just getting your eyeballs plucked out?

SPEAKER_01 13:49

Uh with all that pressure, there's not just your eyes.

SPEAKER_02 13:51

Oh, okay, so other stuff happens. Gotcha, gotcha. EMT guys, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 13:55

He has the option to just like crank all five. Sucks.

SPEAKER_02 13:59

No, it would be terrible. But you know what's worse? Getting your eyes sucked out in your skull. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:05

Uh like there are a couple of them that, like, if I was put in that trap, I'm like, I'd rather die, but there but they're not gonna be a good thing. That is true.

SPEAKER_02 14:11

Like the needle trap? Nah, dude. Not me. Not me. Cut my head off, I don't care.

SPEAKER_01 14:16

But there's a couple of them where it's like I could reasonably do that. I think I could reasonably know.

SPEAKER_02 14:24

You as someone who probably understands the Saw universe better than me. I'll say that much. Which trap would you most prefer to be in and which trap is the worst for you that you can recover?

SPEAKER_01 14:34

Oh, the Breaking Finger is number one. I would be fine being in the eye the eye trap with the fingers.

SPEAKER_02 14:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:40

Uh the one that I would least want to be in. Oh man, there's so many shit.

SPEAKER_02 14:45

The Chester Bennington one. Literally, do you in Lincoln the guy from Lincoln Park. R.I.P. dude. Tragic.

SPEAKER_01 14:52

Yeah. But uh it's actually from the exact same movie the one I wouldn't want to be in, and it sounds so tame compared to some of the other ones, but legitimately, I don't think I could do it. I I I think it would be so awful. There's actually two of them. Okay. They're both from SON 10. Because I think they they're just so.

SPEAKER_02 15:06

I don't think that I won't be familiar with either of these.

SPEAKER_01 15:08

Okay, cool. One of them is he has two pipe bombs in his arms, and his his hands were uh taped, and on top of them there's like ice picks essentially, and he has to rip them out of his arm. The the bombs, like literally like surgically implanted into his arms. Ice picks? With ice picks on his hands. Okay. Uh whatever it is.

SPEAKER_02 15:27

I don't have the imagery, so maybe the imagery makes it worse. Because that doesn't sound the worst to me.

SPEAKER_01 15:32

Uh pipe bomb Are you gonna send him? I'm just gonna send it to you. Okay. Yeah. Arm trap, saw Man, Tovin Bell. I know, dude.

SPEAKER_02 15:40

What else will he be known for? Has he been in anything else?

SPEAKER_01 15:44

I don't know, man.

SPEAKER_02 15:45

Saw, saw, saw. I'm looking at his own.

SPEAKER_01 15:48

Oh, are they just scalpels? Wow, that's rough.

SPEAKER_02 15:50

He was in a bunch of other horror movies. Yeah, it's who is he in El Dorado?

SPEAKER_01 15:55

I don't know. But here, I sent you a picture. Okay. This this is what he gotta do. He just has scalpels and then they're like torn into his arm, so he has to literally cut this entire thing out of his arm and like. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:07

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 16:09

Uh just because I try to think of myself, because he'll uh John Kramer just put him into an open room and just said, have fun. Three minutes. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 16:16

And so he's like, the bombs are gonna go off in three minutes. Three minutes.

SPEAKER_01 16:20

Yeah. So he has to cut the this entire part of his forearm like top to bottom. Rico, what's wrong?

SPEAKER_02 16:28

It's so funny. You it shows how I am so much more aware of this series from a difference. I had to look up John Kramer. I was like, who are you talking about? And then I saw a bunch of pictures of Tobin Bell. I was like, oh, oh, okay. The guy I've been calling Tobin Bell the whole time. Jigsaw. Sure. Gotcha. So he's again crazy that he's still a part of things.

SPEAKER_01 16:48

I know. And then the other one is it it's purely for the sake that it's a bullshit trap.

SPEAKER_02 16:53

Okay. They he he gives this girl That sound by the way, the ice pick thing, that sounds uncomfortable, and it sounds a little unfair for there'd be three minutes two bombs. But again, adrenaline. Adrenaline would take over, but not that quickly, I don't think.

SPEAKER_01 17:10

And then the second one is I couldn't I wouldn't want to be this one because I think it's bullshit, number one. This is also something. Uh yeah, razor wire that like if you touch it, you're like kind of not sharp at all, but the moment that you have friction to it, it's like I'm familiar with razor wire, yeah. Yeah. He gives it her and he goes, You need to cut your thigh off and put this disgusting plunger up into your like the bone area, and you need to extract like an ounce or whatever, ten grams maybe of bone marrow.

SPEAKER_02 17:37

So she has to amputate herself and then tomb it. Wait, she has to amputate herself with razor wire?

SPEAKER_01 17:47

Then like like this.

SPEAKER_02 17:49

That's for those who can't see. That's literally running back and forth with the colour. Like if you took what what do they call um cheese wire. Yeah, yeah. Cheese wire like that's totally unfair.

SPEAKER_01 17:59

Or like you're like pulling clay and you're like using that wire to cut. Yeah, exactly. Basically, it's back and forth motion of this wire into her entire mind you, the actor, uh if I remember correctly, she has a bigger thighs. If anyone ha is fucking thick, they're fucked.

SPEAKER_02 18:15

That's so funny. No, but it's true. You you raise a good point. And again, I I I I am not enough of I'm not experienced enough in medicine to uh to to to be completely confident in this belief, but I know that adrenaline at a certain point will take over, right? Like, yeah, as you experience halfway through will get better. But dude, like that's such an inefficient way to do it that like even e like and and back me it tell me if I'm wrong, but like even if you're able to get even halfway through, you're gonna pass out from blood loss at a certain point or shock or something. Like you're fucked.

SPEAKER_01 18:53

In the movie, she has two or three minutes or whatever, which is an ungodly l short amount of time. Because remember, she also has to collect the but marrow, which at that point, once her leg's off, she has no way to determine how long this is gonna take. There's no way. It's just like a standard suction. Literally show it like going through the wires all slow and shit. And I'm like, that's fucked up. Number one. Um but at the very end, like if she didn't do it in time, which she didn't, another razor wire and her neck goes like and just cuts her head off. Okay. Um, but if let's say she did it in time. John is standing at like the top of this like in in this open room.

SPEAKER_02 19:31

So wait, is this a flashback?

SPEAKER_01 19:34

Yeah. If he does not have a Jigsaw, I'll just say Jigsaw moving for you. Sure.

SPEAKER_02 19:38

No, I know, I I've recognized who we're talking about at this point. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 19:41

But if he does not tourniquet her in like, well, number one, perfectly in the right spot, which was she did it very high up on her leg. He literally put a dashed, like, marking line on her leg where she was supposed to do it. Uh so high up on her leg, high enough at least. But he would have needed to tourniquet her, like immediately. In in the right spot.

SPEAKER_02 20:07

And they never show that, do they?

SPEAKER_01 20:08

She had to saw through her ephemeral.

SPEAKER_02 20:10

They they ne they never show the immediate medical care that these people would need right after their trap to survive. It's so weird. It's They're bleeding a lot. Can I tell you? So, saw traps are so imbalanced, because the most iconic saw trap of all time, I would say, is the reverse bear trap.

SPEAKER_03 20:30

Reverse bear trap.

SPEAKER_02 20:32

She doesn't have to do anything to herself. She has to stab another guy.

SPEAKER_01 20:37

She has scarred right here from where they're gonna be.

SPEAKER_02 20:39

Like she had some surgery or whatever. But you know what, what else? The craziest part of that is like she has her stakes are arguably, in the very first stop movie, the lowest of any trap. Because if she if she dies, that's an immediate death. It's gonna rip her head in half. She's gonna that that death is gonna happen immediately. Spinal cord, gone. It's over. But she doesn't even need to hurt herself. She just has to hurt another guy she has a vague relationship with. Meanwhile, down the line, they're like, peel your toenails off. Like, it gets so over the top. Oh, it's so ridiculous.

SPEAKER_01 21:17

Yeah, no, it like there are literally like the like in uh which one was it? Oh yeah, the I mean Amanda had to go through pain later in the series.

SPEAKER_02 21:26

Well, right, but that's because she stayed personally invested, and that's her fault.

SPEAKER_01 21:30

Yeah. But like being thrown into the pit of nail or into the pit of syringes.

SPEAKER_02 21:35

The needle pit freaks me the fuck out, but that's because my own phobia is gross, you know. Uh literally, because it's also like, aren't they like all needles needles of like drug like drug addicts and stuff?

SPEAKER_00 21:44

Like the No, it's the Yeah, they're all dirty needles. That's fucking heroin. That's a bold also.

SPEAKER_02 21:50

Actually, do you remember um you would know this reference? Uh wait, am I misattributing this? Tell me if I am. Um I heard wait, I might be mistaken. Attributing this. That Dan Avidon, one of his fears was someone accidentally addicting him to heroin, right? No! Wait, wait, wait. Is that him or is that Ryan Bergara?

SPEAKER_01 22:14

No, I think that's Dan. Is that Dan? Is that like it's one of them? Because he would always talk about where like that somebody would like accidentally like or like slightly overdose him or dose him with uh heroin every now and then without him realizing until one day he needs it.

SPEAKER_02 22:26

Well okay, it's because that's a that's the thing. I know there's someone. And someone's gonna someone in my podcast is going to know this answer and they're gonna tell me, and I'm gonna appreciate it, but I'm still gonna be mad at myself for not knowing it. But I what one of these people that I I really liked, because I I used to like Buzzfeed Unsolved, and also Logan and I both like to uh both used to like game robs. I still like game robs. He still likes game robs. I don't really listen to them all that or watch them all that much anymore, but I still like them. I actually had a little moment with them the other day when I was at the end of my Doki Doki Literature Club research, I was like, I just really want to watch them play Doki Doki Literature Club because it's a fun playthrough. But um someone who I have watched, one of their big fears is uh suddenly being dosed with heroin, like someone just coming up to the street and stabbing them with it, because a heroin is so addictive that even one dose can get you hugely dependent on it, which is so weird. Um But whatever the case, the needle trap, there's so many needles in there. There's so many.

SPEAKER_01 23:32

There's a lot, if you know the if you know the scene.

SPEAKER_02 23:34

It's like a swimming pool. Like, there's a ton. How did he source that?

SPEAKER_01 23:40

It's like a six by six by six pad of feet, obviously. Full of needles and like what the hell? Amanda has like like like.

SPEAKER_02 23:50

Oh, and it's rough, and you're seeing them get stuck in her while she's doing it. Oh god. And for someone I don't know what actually the phobia is called. I I'm surprised I haven't looked it up at this point. For needles. Yeah, for needles. I am really bad with medical needles. I have many tattoos. That's not a problem for me. It's specifically net uh medical needles. That trap maybe is actually my my least favorite. That actually is not true. There's a lot of worse ones.

SPEAKER_01 24:17

There's one that makes me queasy. It's actually from the same one, but literally completely unavoidable if you she just used her thought for like two seconds.

SPEAKER_02 24:23

Oh, is it the one where she reaches up? Dude, that one pisses me off. Tell him though. Tell him.

SPEAKER_01 24:29

Okay, so this woman, she has there's these two holes, two these two antidotes. By the way, for the for this song movie, I think it's two or three.

SPEAKER_02 24:36

Yeah, it's two.

SPEAKER_01 24:37

They're all they're all poisoned and they're looking for antidotes. Because it's still through like they have to go through like uh traps to um to get antidotes each. And like there's like sex traps, essentially, for the group. Uh one of them.

SPEAKER_02 24:54

What? Roderick. From Diary of a Wimpekid, is in it.

SPEAKER_01 24:58

From Diary of a fucking Wimpakid.

SPEAKER_02 24:59

Yeah. The original one.

SPEAKER_01 25:00

In w in one of the traps, she walks in by herself, and there's two holes like go up, and like inside this hole, there's these two antidotes, and she just has to grab them. But the thing is, that when she puts her hand in, it's razor blades that go up like this, so when she has to come back down, like that if the blades go into her, she'd have to deco up the black. She has just used her brain for two seconds, maybe looked at it and I just go, oh, hold back. Whoa! Uh she would have used her other hand to push the razors up, then like kind of come through and grab one. No pain!

SPEAKER_02 25:33

And you know what's the most embarrassing is that she gets that one hand up, she pulls on the syringe, which is like weirdly like stuck to the ground upwards facing, like the needle going upwards. She she disconnects the top uh you would know the terms, but she disconnects the top part of it from the bottom part of it, and then she's like, Oh no, what happened? Yeah, exactly. She goes, Oh no, oh what happened? And then that's when the second arm comes up. I'm like, you fucking moron. You fucking moron. Oh god. It's and look, if I was in a saw trap, I I I it's so hard to imagine how you would really respond when you were in that intense of a situation. Especially especially because, dude, sometimes Jigsaw or John Kramer or Tobin Bell, however we want to reference it. He's in everything, he's in fucking all of them. However, he decides he wants to punish you, sometimes he's like, I'm gonna put you in a trap that's gonna take you 15 minutes and then you're gone. And then he's like, sometimes you're gonna be in a fucking series, like an escape room style, like it's it's a fucking whole process, like what the entire family's in that room. And it's so arbitrary. Yeah, he's like, you hey, for you, you have to kill one person and you won't even get that hurt, and you get to leave. For you, you have to kill five people, one of which is maybe hypothetically pregnant, and then also still stab yourself. Like, what are we where where is the sliding scale here?

SPEAKER_01 26:59

Literally, in that one where that guy, his son got hit by a car and was killed, and he got literally, he held a a grudge about uh for towards people, and that's why Doctor Temper put him to the trap. You couldn't let go of your son. Longest traps in the entire series. One of them, he has to burn pictures of like his son's stuff and his things, or this guy literally gets like his head sawed in half.

SPEAKER_02 27:26

And by the way, let's talk about the tracheotomy, right? That's a very iconic saw trap because it represents like that that character goes on to become a larger part of the saw series going forward. I don't know names again.

SPEAKER_01 27:39

Unnecessary.

SPEAKER_02 27:40

Did Jigsaw know he had a fucking pen in his pocket? Like that seemed like a murder. That just seemed like a murder. And by the way, it's a possible trap. Right. If he didn't know about that, if he didn't know that if you stabbed hims himself lower in the trachea, then it would open up a new, like and I don't even know if this is accurate, but this is how what Saw wants you to believe. If you stab himself right there, it would open up a new breathing tube. That's a murder. Maybe right. Yeah. But if he didn't have a pen and he didn't know that, that's just a murder.

SPEAKER_01 28:11

I believe it was set up by Amanda.

SPEAKER_02 28:13

Right, and maybe that's the problem.

SPEAKER_01 28:15

Who set up the head in water trap?

SPEAKER_02 28:21

That trap's so ridiculous.

SPEAKER_01 28:23

It's dumb. The water cube. Uh Detective Mark Hoffman.

SPEAKER_02 28:27

Yeah, Hoffman, right.

SPEAKER_01 28:28

That's what's uh designed to be oh, he designed it to be inescapable.

SPEAKER_02 28:33

Oh, okay, so then was Hoffman proving himself by escaping it? Escaping it?

SPEAKER_01 28:39

No, no, no. Hoffman was the guy who made it.

SPEAKER_02 28:43

Oh wait, then so who did it?

SPEAKER_01 28:44

Because wasn't Hoffman the- Wait, who's the really thick cop with the Yeah, that's that's Mark Hoffman, but he started out as a cop and then he became the next Jigsaw and Sobre.

SPEAKER_02 28:52

Oh wait, so then then did he make the trap and then he got trapped in his own trap?

SPEAKER_01 28:58

No, he put a different guy into it.

SPEAKER_02 28:59

But then who did the tracheotomy?

SPEAKER_01 29:01

Oh, Straub.

SPEAKER_02 29:05

Wait, who's Straub and who's Hoffman? I'm gonna look him up.

SPEAKER_01 29:08

Okay, Detective Mark Hoffman is a guy who early in the series is looking for the Jigsaw killer. Turns out he actually is one of the things. That's who I was thinking. Peter Strom is another agent in Soft 5.

SPEAKER_02 29:19

Strom or Straub?

SPEAKER_01 29:21

S-T-R-A-H-M.

SPEAKER_02 29:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 29:24

And he puts him into it to like basically just try to kill him, essentially. Not even basically.

SPEAKER_02 29:28

Oh, oh, dude, you know why I got confused? These dudes look exactly the same. These two guys look so similar when you look at them. They really do. Yeah. That's why I got confused. Is one of them has like a more pouty face and the other one has a more clinical face, but they have the same haircut. It's very similar.

SPEAKER_01 29:44

Yeah, they really do. They are very and they're also both cops. So Or they both were cops.

SPEAKER_02 29:48

So Ho Hoffman. Alright, I don't remember where we were. We took another break, but we'll be right back. Or no, we are back.

SPEAKER_01 29:56

Yeah. Uh my uh the the dog was just being We couldn't hear it, because thank you, Discord, but Yes. The dog was freaking out over something just for me to walk into the room and uh somebody wasn't looking at her for like two seconds.

SPEAKER_02 30:09

Same as my cat.

SPEAKER_01 30:11

Yeah. So, but yeah, she's alright. Um, but we were talking about Saul, we were talking about John Kramer, we were talking about Peter Straw, Mark Hoffman. Um they look so similar.

SPEAKER_02 30:21

That's again why I was so confused. It's so funny.

SPEAKER_01 30:24

No, but I I know that I know we gotta wrap this up, but I genuinely like I do like those movies even though their premises are, or at least the the ideology that they're trying to get across through John Kramer slash Jigsaw slash Tobin Ryan.

SPEAKER_02 30:41

Jakesaw's philosophy is basically bullshit. I think we can both agree on that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:45

It sucks. If if it was more like like, oh, you lose one thing or or I I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 30:54

No, it's like i if he was consistent with it, then then you could defend it, but he is inconsistent.

SPEAKER_01 30:59

Yeah, you you were 100% correct when you said like, oh, one person has to kill another person. Or has to literally in that one trap just burn pictures of his son. Um and then, wait, which one is that one? Uh it was I think it was four or five or six, where he has to go through like it was the it was the the dad whose son got killed in the car crash. And he has to like he has to like uh it's his wife who he got divorced with because of the accident, the guy who killed him, the judge who didn't sentence the guy or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 31:27

Wait, and he's not k he's he when he burns the pictures, he's not killing these people too. Like it the he's literally just throwing fire dude, what the fuck?

SPEAKER_01 31:38

It's so and then other people it's like tear out your layers.

SPEAKER_02 31:41

Yeah, literally. It's like cut off as much meat off of your body. It like literally, sometimes he makes people compete against each other. How is that fat? He's like, Alright, how much meat can you cut off of yourself without killing yourself? What the fuck is that? Oh, was it bla- No, wasn't there one that was about slabs of meat? Yeah, fat, yeah. Yeah, what the fuck?

SPEAKER_01 32:01

That's just bullshit.

SPEAKER_02 32:02

That's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 32:04

And also the one that the theory is.

SPEAKER_02 32:07

Sometimes, like, your girlfriend cheated on you and you're mad about it. Literally, literally two brothers. Yeah, I saw that. Yeah. What the fuck? Come on, man.

SPEAKER_01 32:16

Because Connor and I look excited right now. They're the trap in Sauna 3D, where there is this girl who was um cheating on like.

SPEAKER_02 32:25

I think we're breaking up with you, Bethany.

SPEAKER_01 32:28

Yeah. And oh my god. Don't even give me something. But I I like the movies. I don't understand. They're fun.

SPEAKER_02 32:34

No, they are fun. I like them too, actually. I do.

SPEAKER_01 32:37

But there is in Sauna 3D, there is a girl who is cheating on a pair of siblings at the same time.

SPEAKER_02 32:44

It's so stupid. And it's so public. What the hell?

SPEAKER_01 32:47

I know, they put them on like when you walk past like a like a fucking store and there's like a big thing. Yeah, an outlet mall. But like what the fuck do I both of their hands are basically attached to like basically like a um a circular sock to it?

SPEAKER_02 33:02

That's like weighted.

SPEAKER_01 33:04

And they have to, and I they basically have to make the choice to push the sock to each other and kill each other for the sake of dating the girl, or do nothing and let the girl fall onto the soul.

SPEAKER_02 33:13

Who is cheating on both of them for the record?

SPEAKER_01 33:14

Who's cheating on both of them? And they start fighting over it number one. This is okay. I have a bigger issue with this. But the fact that they're the fact that they even have to think about this and not be like, alright, well, uh she's gotta die.

SPEAKER_02 33:25

No, it would be that's the thing. If it was you and I, and I know this is so bleak to say both of us to be in actual relationships, let's make it an arbitrary third party. If you and I somehow were dating the same woman and she was cheating on both of us, this is actually this is pretty dark to say. I think you and I could reach an agreement pretty quickly.

SPEAKER_01 33:45

I don't think it would take that long.

SPEAKER_02 33:47

It's dark to say I would never murder someone, but if it was between me and the person who cheated on both of us, I'd be like, alright, let's cut our losses. Yeah, right? But it sucks. It's terrible.

SPEAKER_01 33:59

That's actually one of the things I feel like that like brings people I honestly, it's sort of John Jigsaw's point. Oh god. But like that it brings people closer together, I guess. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 34:07

But like, okay, but like That's because we're talking about in the abstract, because if we actually imagined both of our partners, it would be a lot harder of a decision.

SPEAKER_01 34:15

Of course it would be.

SPEAKER_02 34:16

I would never but our partners wouldn't cheat on us. That's the fun part. Of course they wouldn't. That's nice.

SPEAKER_01 34:21

Yeah. Uh but like in in this arbitrary situation, if we're hearing the recording at the exact same time, because remember, the Saw wasn't moving at first. It like unlocked, and that's when they started fighting.

SPEAKER_02 34:30

Because they need time to start talking.

SPEAKER_01 34:32

Yeah, because if we started if we had if you and I had this moment, which would never happen. Never ever.

SPEAKER_02 34:39

Truly.

SPEAKER_01 34:39

But like I feel like we just look at each other and be like, I'm not gonna fucking kill you.

SPEAKER_02 34:44

Uh yeah, I mean uh again because but because and you know the reason we're coming to this conclusion? It's because they make the the girlfriend in the scene such an asshole.

SPEAKER_03 34:55

She's just talking about it.

SPEAKER_02 34:56

Like she's awful the whole time. So like it's easy to be like, oh yeah, let the let her die in the saw trap horror movie that we're all watching. But like, again, if it was our actual partners, it would be a different conversation.

SPEAKER_01 35:08

Of course they would be devastating. Yeah, but also I think there was also a moment of it's also a moment of the woman cheated on both of us, and like putting it like an actual face to like somebody that I care about of it sucks.

SPEAKER_02 35:22

Right. It's it is one of those things where it's like, alright, the specifics of it are kind of very uncomfortable to imagine in real life, because it's either kill your brother or kill the person you're in love with, and that does suck. But in the movie, and this is what's making it so easy for us, in the movie, they make the love interest an asshole. So it's very easy to be like, yeah, killer, whatever.

SPEAKER_01 35:42

One of the brothers starts winning they start like winning the struggle, and she's like, Yeah, baby, do it, do it, and then always and then it goes back to him and he's like, I've never liked you, but you though like, oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 35:53

And then and I I mentioned this earlier, and I think her name is Bethany, but it could be a different name that's similar. Because they literally have this moment where they're like, Alright, we've made up our mind. We're gonna balance the bit blade in between the two of us and kill the ex and kill the cheating girlfriend. And she goes, What the fuck are you doing, you assholes? And they go, I think we're breaking up with you, Bethany! What is it? Dina. It's Dina? Why did I think Bethany?

SPEAKER_01 36:20

Are the guys and Dina is the uh I think we're breaking up with you, Dina. Whatever. Dina. It's called the love triangle trap.

SPEAKER_02 36:27

That's funny.

SPEAKER_01 36:28

That's a funny name.

SPEAKER_02 36:29

All the tracks traps have great names. But reverse bear trap, that's funny.

SPEAKER_01 36:34

It is pretty good. But genuinely, so my entire point of talking about this of why I think it's stupid, is Jigsaw has put people into traps for murdering people and getting away with it.

SPEAKER_02 36:44

Yeah. Or for being sad about your s son dying. Or for the cheating, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:50

There was an emplo uh a trap. I don't remember which movie this is from, forgive me. That's fine. She cut her skin. Like she because she was sad.

SPEAKER_02 36:57

Oh, she was a self-harbor? Yeah. Do it more, idiot! What the hell are we talking about?

SPEAKER_01 37:06

I fucking. That's the thing.

SPEAKER_02 37:07

It's like you can make a a uh a horror villain who has a flawed philosophy, and if they're consistent with it, that makes it compelling. And like, let's not pretend Saw is not still compelling. There's still this is why I always compare it to Final Destination, because I think the reason people still come back to Saw movies to this day is because they're just like, how are they gonna find a fun way to kill people this movie? Same thing with Final Destination, except Final Destination finds a way to tell a new story every time. Sometimes it's not the best story, but they can at least be like, alright, the framework is the same. It's people who survive a a tragic event and and who reap the consequences of it later. But Saw keeps finding a way to make it Tobin Bell or John Kramer or Jigsaw, however you want to call him, just making it this weird philosophy that gets weirdly more and more nuanced and complicated the whole time, to the point where it's like, dude, you just like killing people. Can we just call it that?

SPEAKER_01 38:05

Do you know how it started? Do you know his reason for why he started?

SPEAKER_02 38:08

He had cancer.

SPEAKER_01 38:09

He got cancer, and then his wife died in a car accident. He was gonna take his own life, but then he failed for some reason. And he goes, I appreciate life so much, though. I should kill everyone else needs to be a good idea.

SPEAKER_02 38:19

47 different people about this.

SPEAKER_01 38:22

Every other person now needs to deal with this who has any kind of issue than their life.

SPEAKER_02 38:25

You know what I love?

SPEAKER_01 38:26

Okay, we uh you don't like your wife because she cheated on you.

SPEAKER_00 38:29

Get in the trap!

SPEAKER_02 38:30

In the later sections of this podcast, we really fixated on the purge and jigsaw, and that's gonna make titling this a lot easier. But you know what I also love? I'm gonna focus on another character. The guy who pretends. I uh is this saw five?

SPEAKER_01 38:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 38:45

Which which movie is this?

SPEAKER_01 38:48

It must have been five, yeah. I think made like the support group.

SPEAKER_02 38:52

Yeah, the guy who pretends he was in a saw trap. He does a support group, he does a bunch of like uh uh press conferences, he makes a book about it. He wrote a book, yeah. Yeah, and he's like, I I was in the saw trap where I had to put hooks through my pectoral muscles and lift myself up. And then at one of his book conferences, Jigsaw, or John Kramer, or Tobin Bell, however you want to reference him, in a backwards hat and a hoodie, walks up and is like, hey man, that's crazy, huh? And he's like, Yeah, it was crazy. He's like, hey, you're kind of a bullshit liar, huh? And he's like, nah. And he's like, okay. And then later the dude has to do the exact same trap he came up with, and it's the only time I'm like, yeah, you kind of deserve this.

SPEAKER_01 39:38

You deserve that. Literally, there's a film today video about the saw traps of oh, what are your chances of surviving Saw? Yeah. How to survive a saw trap. Uh-huh. And his like his last rule that he made, he goes, and under zero circumstances, should you ever lie about being in a saw trap openly?

SPEAKER_02 39:53

Because guess what, dude? This mastermind, who again died at this point, like 12 to 14 years ago in the franchise, still somehow is gonna get you. You motherfucker, he's gonna get you. Oh god. We've been talking about Saw forever. We've been talking about the perch forever. Um, you have this whole list. I want you, we're we're gonna close out pretty soon here, and I actually if I haven't mentioned this earlier, this is probably already part two. This is probably gonna be a two-part episode, so you're welcome for that. But I want you to look through your list, take however uh as much time as you need. Find your favorite question. Let's do that one and then we're gonna call it. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 40:43

Half of these are just like, do you have schizophrenia?

SPEAKER_02 40:46

Find your favorites.

SPEAKER_01 40:47

Do you see fig do you see figures in your peripheral vision? Do you hear noises when no one is around?

SPEAKER_02 40:53

Yeah, these are a lot of do you have uh a mental disorder stuff.

SPEAKER_01 40:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:58

But truly, like is about questioning your own. Well, that's that that is the actual while you're looking, I'll I'll make this little point. You can keep looking. The interesting part about a lot of haunting stories and a lot of like more ethereal kinds of horror is the whole idea of like you're constantly questioning your own sanity. This is the reason that for in in so many like haunted house stories, so many poltergeist stories, so many demon possession stories, it takes so long for like an actual expert to become involved. Is because part one, people uh outside of your own circle start doubting you, which part two leads you to start doubting yourself, which part three leads you to start distancing yourself from people who actually might be able to help you. Which is what I love about haunted house stories, about demon possession stories, about all the stuff I mentioned earlier. I'm reading a really great um book right now. I'll actually hold it up right now, I've got it right here. It's called The Grip of It, and I cannot pronounce this author's last name. It's uh this is a woman. Uh the first name is Jack J A C. Their last name is J-E-M-C. Jem Cold House. Jumk? Jemk? Jimek? I don't know. But it's a haunted house story. And it but it's it is the story about a couple moving into a haunted house, and they Jack built that house. Are you talking about the house that Jack built?

SPEAKER_01 42:21

Yeah, sorry.

SPEAKER_02 42:22

I love that movie. When I showed that to my girlfriend, it traumatized her. I do love that movie though. Have you seen it? You've seen it.

SPEAKER_01 42:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 42:28

It's a pretty great movie. It's pretty good. I think it's pretty interesting. Um Have you found a question yet?

SPEAKER_01 42:35

Uh yeah, I have, but I wanted you to finish here for that.

SPEAKER_02 42:37

Well, my entire point was what I love, and we've been talking about like slashers and like a lot of over-the-top horror, like very violent horror in this podcast. And I think that's fun. I think it's actually an interesting concept to cover. Maybe I'll do an essay about it at some point. Violent horror. But it's no secret on this channel that my favorite kind of horror is the psychological, the quiet, the subtle, the the the the weird. Um and part of my favorite part of haunted house stories about demon possession stories about stuff that is more hard to define because there's not such like, is the person looking for attention? Is the person just mentally ill? Is the person actually experiencing some kind of psychological or demonic like whatever's happening. Um what I love about that is the and and especially there's a great um book by Paul Tremblay. Tremblay, I'm not sure how to pronounce his last name. He's a great he he wrote um Cabin at the end of the world, uh, which got adapted into the movie Knock at the Cabin Door. Good story. Really interesting. Um he's a really fantastic writer, and what what I really love about him, and this feeds into what we're about to talk about here, is uh my first exposure to him was the book Horror Movie, which I think is his most recent.

SPEAKER_01 43:53

Um What season of American Horror Story is that from?

SPEAKER_02 43:58

Fucking all of them. Oh god, I could make an entire essay about that entire shit. Shit. But maybe I will. Um, because I watched a lot of it. But uh he is really good about telling a story that the entire time has you questioning your narrator. Uh uh, they call it the unreliable narrator narrator trope. Um but in horror movie.

SPEAKER_00 44:18

American Psycho is a great example of a movie.

SPEAKER_02 44:19

American Psycho is a is in fact a great example, exactly. But in horror movie, you're being told a story both from the memory of what happened back in the past and then the new interpretation from the same character in modern day. In a headful of ghosts, you are this this is what I was gonna talk about. In Headful of Ghosts, which is my favorite Paul Trem Tremblade novel, um you are constantly being asked the question of Is the problem that this girl is experiencing a mental health issue? Does she have schizophrenia? Is she hearing voices? Is she is she literally mentally unhealthy? Or is she possessed by a ghost? And what's so hard about that is that and what I love about this kind of genre is that there's so much overlap in that if you're hearing voices, that could be either an indicator of either. You could there could be demons whispering to you, or you could be your your brain could be fucking with you. I i if you are having weird reactions to emotional stimuli, if you're suddenly having uh huge outbursts, if you're suddenly getting violent, if you're suddenly self-harming, that in certain groups is a huge sign of a mental health issue, and in other groups a sign of demonic possession. And this is actually the reason that the Catholic Church approaches uh approaches uh exorcism uh very cautiously in our modern day and age is because there are so many recorded instances of exorcisms being performed, and then later down the line, the person that the exorcism was performed on would who died or took a lot of damage was just later revealed to be someone who just had mental health issues. And what's so interesting about how Pa Paul Tromblay writes his works is that he manages to tow that line so completely that whatever story you're reading, you don't know if in horror movie the movie itself and then like a mask, kind of haunted mask R.L. Stein style, kind of takes over stuff. Um, but then Headful of Ghosts, it's literally is she schizophrenic or is she possessed? And that's the entire plot.

SPEAKER_01 46:20

But it's so interesting.

SPEAKER_02 46:22

It's really fascinating. I'll give you this book. You like it.

SPEAKER_01 46:24

I I always I always love that that concept where it's like oh, is that person shaking convulsively because the devil's in them? Or is it because they're going through post-specific? Are they having a seizure?

SPEAKER_02 46:35

Or yeah, are they having PTSD or whatever?

SPEAKER_01 46:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:37

It's really interesting. Um I love about this book I'm reading again, uh, The Grip of It by Jacques Gemmik Zemk. How do you spoke? It's J-E-M-C. I have no idea how to pronounce that. Um is that part of what's so interesting about the dynamic is that it's telling the uh story of a dysfunctional couple. A couple that Gem C- Gem C is that what it is? It is. Okay, interesting. Gem C. Um it is telling the story of a dysfunctional couple who already have a bunch of relationship issues, and their communication is already stilted because they have been dealing with that the whole time. So, you know, when they enter into this new supernaturally confusing situation, they're already so distanced from each each other, and they're so repressed, and they're so bad at communicating their issues with each other that uh they they doubt each other and they doubt themselves, and they never come to a specific conclusion. I'm like very close to the end of the book, I would say. And the entire time they're still like, is he reacting this way because he's actually experiencing this or because he's trying to get back at me? Is she reacting this way because she's hypersensitive to the world that she lives in, or is because is it because she's actually trapped in this section of the house?

SPEAKER_01 47:56

Like it's This is why I like psychological uh horror far more than like like just in your face.

SPEAKER_02 48:02

Despite the fact that we've been so in your face this whole episode. I know.

SPEAKER_01 48:06

But like it's how often do you get to like feel scared by something that you're unsure of? That's way more because it's it's a getting murdered with stuff. We all know that. Are you more scared? If somebody in a game, movie, book says exactly what the monsters looks like, how it sounds, all these things, then yeah, you could be scared of that. But when you're gonna be able to do it, if you if you imply that someone's back there, your mind fills in that.

SPEAKER_02 48:35

I used to call it McGrath's Corner. I feel weird about continuing to call it that because it feels a little uh self-congratulatory, but it is a sentiment that I I stand by a lot, which is that, you know, I always uh the the classic literary uh saying is uh show, don't tell, right? Um show the horror instead of just describing it. But but in in certain horror landscapes, and I I won't pretend that this is universal, I I've always implied that what's more effective to me is imply don't show. You know, just an extension of that, which is allow your audience to come up with the horror for themselves. And that doesn't work. It is why I love skin emarink. I do love skin rank.

SPEAKER_01 49:14

I am not I'm not great at surrealism. I've told you guys, I've told you this before. I didn't like Skin's Rink because it's just it's far too surreal for my like I basically kind of walked out of it just like that was just a lot of sounds for an hour.

SPEAKER_02 49:25

It's it's fair, but you have to look at it like a dream. You have to let it invade your own personality. And some people can't do that.

SPEAKER_01 49:33

It's just one of those things where it's like, we watched this movie recently, like, good luck, have fun, don't die. And it was so surreal, and uh the entire time I was like, this is I cannot stand this.

SPEAKER_02 49:45

I don't know what you mean by that.

SPEAKER_01 49:46

I have not seen the movie yet, but I'm you my roommates it's it's a surreal movie where like this guy is trying to prevent an AI world takeover thing, and he's been through so many loops, like he's like a time traveler dude, he's been through so many loops.

SPEAKER_02 50:00

But like Is it surreal or is it just can convoluted?

SPEAKER_01 50:03

Oh no, at the beginning it's it's all like it's super normal. Like, oh, there's people hunting them down. Clearly, this guy has other time travelers or something on his ass. And then, like, all of a sudden out of nowhere, a dinosaur-sized cat comes out and starts eating all these random zombie kids who are attached to their phones.

SPEAKER_02 50:19

Okay, so it just gets okay. Alright, I'm curious about it. I'll still check it out.

SPEAKER_01 50:23

And my roommates are like, this was great. And I'm like, are did we watch the same movie?

SPEAKER_02 50:28

Interesting. Interesting. I I don't know. I I I have seen brief like Instagram ads for that. Again, I I've mentioned this a couple times, I think, on this episode in itself. I don't watch trailers for stuff that I'm actually interested in. I still have not seen a single trailer for Five Nights at Freddy's 2, and that's on streaming now, and I can't wait to watch it.

SPEAKER_01 50:44

But only available on Peacock. Not sponsored. I just saw it on it.

SPEAKER_02 50:50

Yeah. Um Yeah, I think we do have differing perspectives on that. I I love the opportunity to really like stretch my imagination. But I will say, you and I saw Undertone together. And what was so disappointing about that was there was so much built-up potential in the first, like, three quarters of that movie, right?

SPEAKER_01 51:12

Yeah, legitimately. I was actually like really kind of on the edge of my seat.

SPEAKER_02 51:16

Sound design was really strong. They were setting up a bunch of really interest like the stuff with the mother, the stuff with the boyfriend, the stuff with the partner across the seas, like all of that.

SPEAKER_03 51:24

The boyfriend they never brought up again.

SPEAKER_02 51:26

What the hell? Because at the end, they vaguely imply that a demon came out of the and again, I've talked about this in another podcast. I maybe there's a general spoiler warning at the top of all of these episodes, but still. Um They set up so much that was really interesting, and and I've always like I've said, like it famously on my own personal channel, imply don't show, my favorite thing. Make us search for it, make us be thoughtful about it.

SPEAKER_01 51:55

One might even say that you want more quiet horror.

SPEAKER_02 51:58

One might even say 735,000 people might even say that. But but truthfully.

SPEAKER_01 52:05

Minus like 20, because like 20 of those were me, I think.

SPEAKER_02 52:08

20,000? Or 20, 20, just 20 injects.

SPEAKER_01 52:12

I've shot a lot of people that have been in.

SPEAKER_02 52:13

Well, I appreciate that. But either way, point is the caveat of imply don't show is give us something. There needs to at least be the implication. Because what happened at the end of of Undertone was basically n like nothing.

SPEAKER_01 52:29

Well, there's a demon.

SPEAKER_02 52:30

Yeah, we already knew there was like, okay, the movie the entire time was like, we're eerie and scary, and I was like, yeah, okay, there's gonna be a demon or an entity. And so the reveal of the movie just being, yeah, there is a demon, that's it, and then maybe he kills the protagonist, but even that I don't know. What the fuck are you talking about?

SPEAKER_01 52:51

After we watched the movie, we talked about it for a little bit, but I rem I realized something after the fact.

SPEAKER_02 52:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 52:56

After our conversation, after I think I had already been b I went home after everything, you and I had not seen each other for a little bit. Okay. I think I realized We saw this on my broad-wait a minute, wait a fucking second. This entire movie was on audio, and all they did was say that like the scary shit happened when they got to the end of the audio. The audio didn't even link to that.

SPEAKER_02 53:16

The I mean it kinda like, but it wanted to, because part of it was like mother imagery, and the the the main protagonist was pregnant, but even then, like the through line of that was so it just was so nothing.

SPEAKER_01 53:32

It was so nothing. Because they had legitimately, for any people who are listening who have seen this movie, I'm sure you can agree with this. They had some amazing concepts being set up.

SPEAKER_02 53:41

There was a lot that could have been done with it, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 53:44

And all they went back to is the default of scary thing happens, demon kills protagonist, done.

SPEAKER_02 53:50

Yeah. And and this is the thing, is they they set up this entire through line of there being a motherhood angle to this. Awesome, that's interesting. Yeah. She has her own relationship with her mother, who is infirmed and on her deathbed, it would seem. And also during the film, she becomes pregnant through whatever experience with her boyfriend who served her. Yeah, Mary. Oh, right, yes.

SPEAKER_01 54:14

Mother Mother of Humanity and Mother of Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_02 54:18

They were doing a lot of that kind of imagery too. It was a lot of demon stuff. And so they set up, like, okay, the mother of the protagonist is dying, and she's becoming a mother herself, and then nothing. And then a demon kills her. And then what? And then her mother gets out of bed, but what I guess possessed by the demon, but what does that have to do with all the imagery you established beforehand?

SPEAKER_01 54:42

And all the audio stuff, and like for how good that audio is.

SPEAKER_02 54:46

And her friend across the seas. Like, what what happened to him?

SPEAKER_01 54:51

Or the boyfriend.

SPEAKER_02 54:52

Or the boyfriend. The boyfriend we've heard from for like a half second. It was so strange.

SPEAKER_01 54:59

Is his boyfriend to be supposed to be the devil and the whole thing is like, oh, he impregnated with something bad? It would have been great to find that out.

SPEAKER_02 55:05

Maybe. Like, I I don't believe that to be the case. I don't think that's a what they were going for. I I assume that's a good thing. I don't think so either.

SPEAKER_01 55:10

I'm just saying if it would have been sick.

SPEAKER_02 55:12

But like, but again, then, like. They just didn't do anything with what they gave us.

SPEAKER_01 55:18

If the give give that movie, I think that it's one of those situations where if you gave that movie an hour longer, they might have been able to do something.

SPEAKER_02 55:25

Maybe. Maybe.

SPEAKER_01 55:26

Maybe.

SPEAKER_02 55:27

But it just it had nothing else going on. It had nothing else going on. It was just very weird. Okay. Alright.

SPEAKER_00 55:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 55:35

So, uh what I've asked for Logan to do before we close out for the night is ask his favorite of the questions that he has gathered here. Do you have one picked out?

SPEAKER_01 55:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 55:45

Alright, what do we have?

SPEAKER_01 55:46

Every conspiracy theory on Earth that exists.

SPEAKER_02 55:49

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 55:50

Which one is the most believable or your favorite?

SPEAKER_02 55:53

Oh well, I do I mean I have an immediate answer for this.

SPEAKER_01 55:56

I think I know what it is.

SPEAKER_02 55:58

I bet you do. Because I've talked about it before. Um I'm gonna loop them both together, because they're basic it's two conspiracy theories, but they're basically the same conspiracy theory, just um, it's JFK and MLK, right?

SPEAKER_01 56:11

Oh, yeah, yeah. I thought you were gonna say JFK, but yeah, MLK.

SPEAKER_02 56:14

JFK and MLK, I I kind of hold them the same. But like, obviously they're different situations, but they both of those assassinations were.

SPEAKER_01 56:22

Almost guaranteed to be government organizations.

SPEAKER_02 56:24

They were attributed to other people. I've watched so many videos, I've looked at so many things. The thing where they cut the tree down outside of MLK's uh the the apartment where uh they were shooting out of um the the the witness testimony when it comes to the JFK assassination, the fact that General Ray legitimately telling MLK Jr.'s son that he didn't do it, and MLK Jr.'s son is like, I know. MLK's entire family suing the US government and winning one dollar or whatever it was. Was it one dollar? Yeah. Just because they wanted the retribution, it's a whole yeah. This might not be that interesting. Like, oh, I love, you know, people would be like, Oh, I believe in Agartha. Uh no. Traveling in a final comedy. Yeah, yeah. Oh, moon landing was fake. No, but uh what? Uh, yeah. No, dude. But uh Yeah, but no, it it's the one that's the easiest to like actually like pull up. I don't believe in the sanctity of our government in any sense. So so therefore, like any exp conspiracy theory that's like, hey, what if our government was bad? I'm like, yeah. Yeah, I believe that. That's about it.

SPEAKER_01 57:42

Uh for me, my favorite or like conspiracy theory that I find to be the most believable. Believable or interesting.

SPEAKER_02 57:53

Was it believable or interesting? Because I have way more than I've got to do.

SPEAKER_01 57:56

I said, I said favorite or most believable.

SPEAKER_02 57:59

Okay, well that's the one I find most believable, but here, you tell me your Well actually let me let me look up.

SPEAKER_01 58:05

Cause I was probably gonna say the JFK one, just because of how interesting it is. But now I actually want to see like if there's any that I I probably heard a lot of these. Moon landing was fake, yeah. Government killed JFK, COVID-19 was engineered by the media. I've heard that one. Earth has been sucked into a black hole.

SPEAKER_02 58:22

I've never heard that one. I think we did.

SPEAKER_01 58:24

Disney created frozen as a distraction.

SPEAKER_02 58:26

Actually, I'll say, that's my that's my favorite that I don't believe. Actually, I might even still believe it. Do you know this? Can I can I explain it to you? Oh, no, I don't. So, there is a very famous conspiracy theory that Walt Disney himself, he was one of those people who was looking for the secret to immortality, and he was one of the people who believed that if he froze his own head, he would later be he would later be um able to be revived down the line. And so later, like in the mid 2010s, 2020s, Disney was like, hey, this is some bad PR the way that people keep looking up Walt Disney's frozen head. So they were like, hey, you know what we're gonna do? We're gonna make a movie called Frozen so that when people look up Disney Frozen, it'll come up with that movie and not all the random shit about Walt Disney's head being in the fucking basement of Disney World. I love that I love that theory. That's probably my favorite. I love that theory. Okay. Because I can believe it.

SPEAKER_01 59:27

Yeah, yeah. On this list, I don't really believe it.

SPEAKER_02 59:30

Yeah, I don't know, but I could.

SPEAKER_01 59:32

Uh number 19 is Amelia Erhard was eaten by crabs.

SPEAKER_02 59:35

That's not a conspiracy theory to me. That's exactly what I think. That's not a conspiracy theory, that's the legend.

SPEAKER_01 59:43

That's the le that's literally just the legend. Um We've been there.

SPEAKER_02 59:46

You and I have both been on Loviness.

SPEAKER_01 59:50

Um, this one's interesting. Apollo 17 was not the last moon mission.

SPEAKER_02 59:55

Well, I think we know that to be the case.

SPEAKER_01 59:57

There's actually there uh there is like a thought that like they saw something up there. And they went back secretly. I don't know. It's an interesting one.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:05

I love that idea, but we've been s we like there's no other celestial body other than like Earth or the Sun that I think we have documented more than the moon. So, like, I think we would know if but again, like the government, you can't trust him.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:18

I don't know. The Titanic didn't actually sink, that's a good one.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:21

Oh, wait, do you know about that one? That it was it was a different ship that they renamed the Titanic. That's an interesting one. I like that one.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:29

Uh uh And actually this is probably the number 11 is probably the one that I probably believe the most.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:35

Because when you look at what they were doing, first of all, the Nazis had a secret base in Antarctica.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:41

I have heard that. I don't know if it's uh I don't know how to do it.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:44

When you think about the shit they were doing during that time.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:47

I mean, Hitler did like was recorded looking for, again, Agartha.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:52

Agartha. Yeah. But the fact that, like There are so many people who are like, no, no, they never, never, and how's there be anything secret that they did down anywhere? I don't know, dude.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:02

They could have done any fucking crazy shit. Whatever.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:04

There's still some people who think that, like, we know for a fact, like a fact, that certain Nazi officers escaped to places like Argentina and stuff like that. And people are like, Very well recorded.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:14

Hey, but you know what? There are also people who deny that the Holocaust happened, so it's not like we have to give a good faith argument to everything we hear. Or rather faith.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:24

But no, I I find it completely makes a hundred percent sense that at the time when, like you said, Hitler was looking for Hollow Earth.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:33

Just looking for fucking whatever to help him out.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:35

Yeah. They thought that Antarctica was an unexplored, interesting place that housed one of our poles. So they're like, hey, maybe that'll be something. Maybe there's giants. What?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:46

Maybe there's giants.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:47

Maybe there's giants. There might be giants. I I I could I could totally believe that there was like the Nazis were just like, yeah, sure, maybe, let's go.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:55

Yeah. It would not take much convincing for me to believe that even passively they sent an amount of people out there to just check out what was going on. That's that's not a shock to me.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:07

They did more crazy shit, so they did so dude.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:10

If you want to talk about conspiracy theories, you look at half of the recorded shit that German scientists did in in concentration camps, that is some human centipede level shit. And it's truly like I I don't know if you've seen it's I was about to say, human centipede is based off of the atrocities that German scientists.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:28

Yeah. German scientists and quote unquote doctors. Uh they were literally just saying, like, oh, I wonder how long.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:34

What if we stowed a fucking baby to another baby? Like, fucking sure, dude. Yeah, you know what's gonna happen? Baby's gonna have a really bad time and die. Awesome, German scientists. Thanks. Glad the American government decided to take so many of you into our fucking NASA program. Love you.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:50

If we f if we cut your foot open and fill it with all this bullshit we found over here, will you get infected?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:55

Yes. Yes. If you cut someone's arm off and ask them to play a basketball, are they gonna be good at it? No! That's an exaggeration, but it's truly the level of science they were doing.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:05

How long will you surv or will you survive if we put you in this giant pot of boiling water and then close the lit?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:11

God, we're talking about it in such a cavalier and jokey way, but it is true. This is not fiction, it's actually truly horrendous.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:17

No, it is Yeah. But still, it's it's it's the grounded horror. It's like the fact that it happened, the fact that it somebody had to fathom this is that that's unbelievable.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:28

I I I talk about the humanity of horror. I I talk about it passively, but like when I did my Fears to Fathom series, which again we'll come back when uh Scratch Creek comes out, and I'm sure we'll play that together. I would like to do that. Um that'll be fun. But you know, part of what I love about Fears to Fathom is that it's it is so grounded, and you know, there's there's elements where people are like, oh, this is probably, you know, doctored is probably a little bit more fictional than the actual. Whatever. Like, that's sure. But like at the same time, it's like it can happen. An ex being mentally ill and coming and trying to hurt you, that has happened to people. That's far too real. That's definitely happened to people. A your house just simply being broken into like the first this is weird.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:13

The first one is fairly scary, but it is. The first Fears of Atom is pretty effective, actually. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:20

For a horror game when you've got PT to compare it to or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:22

But like That's a genuinely scary concept.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:26

It's very simple. But you know what makes it extra I I I love the texting in Fears of Fathom. That's such a fun element to be because it moves the story along. But in Fears of Fathom 1, it's not even the hugest plot point. But you're hiding under the bed and you're texting your mom, and your mom is like, I'm so sorry, just be safe, it's okay, and in your sa like You think about either, you know, we're again we share the same parents. You think about our mom in this situation and how terrifying that would be for her, and how terrifying it would be for us. That simple moment is way scarier than any purge momy per purge movie and any Saw movie.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:05

No, I love the way that they depict people just as a whole in the series. Like, for one, what's the one where they go out on vacation with a guy that clearly likes her?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:15

Mm-hmm. That's the last one. That is um uh something getaway. Norwood getaway. No, Norwood Hitchhikes. Um, not Norwegian, no, it's Norwood Hitchhike and something getaway. It's something getaway. I'll read it.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:27

But they take his truck and they go to the to that house where the guy who was like renting the house out to them is like fucking just there.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:34

Yeah.

unknown 1:05:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:35

And he does not leave and he's doing fucking weird shit.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:37

And they they're texting the they're texting quote unquote Rick and get getting rational responses. Yeah. And then this person's like, this is my house, and that means I get to take whatever I want. And then Rick's like, yeah, I'm across the state right now, so I don't know what you're talking about. What a gut drop that would be.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:56

No, but the entire the entire one, it does such a maiden switch. I could be wrong about that, actually. Tor like sort of like aggressive about his feelings towards this woman.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:23

Yes. Being weirdly pressuring.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:25

He's play hide and seek.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:27

Yeah, you you truly like, and and I I I mentioned this in the video, but it's a great observation that you're making too, is that the game truly wants you to believe that this is the guy who's gonna turn on you. And you believe it to be the case. And honestly, because all the other Fears to Fathom games have mostly been about people that you barely know, except for the one with the ex-girlfriend, but again, you don't like really interact with her during most of that, you're like, this feels like the subversion. It's a good it is a good one. Um but you're like, oh, this is the subversion because this obviously, yeah, we know this person, and so that's what's so scary about this. And then when it turns out he's just like, ah, you don't like me? Ah, and then it is this fake Rick.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:08

That feel uh it works so well because yeah, it literally and it also I think it plays into the fact that it makes it more realistic to me. Because I know dudes who have been really into a girl who she's not feeling it. And I mean it does happen where somebody gets rejected and they get openly violent or something like that. Yeah. But I think it puts up to the city.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:29

I'd like to think we don't we don't keep that kind of company though.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:32

Yeah. Yeah. Uh but there's so many more people who have probably experienced the guy is getting a little too close, gets rejected, and then it's like, oh. So then when it happens, there's all this buildup. Because in your in your hot head, this is a horror game. It's it's a good thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:47

It's a threat either way. And what's so good about again, uh what's so good about Fuse of Fathom, and and I I've made this point in the videos again, um, is that there is an element of being aware and and taking the right steps to at least keep yourself kind of safe. You hide in the closet, you you avoid the person who's gonna come to you, you don't throw yourself at the danger. Yeah, which is which is in in like 99% of situations, the your best bet. Don't try to engage with your the danger, you leave. If you have to defend yourself in that 1% situation, you do it. But um what works so well about that factor, and I'm losing my train of thought right now and it's killing me, um, is oh right, uh, is that every Fierce of Fathom story, whether or not you want to look at it as a true story, I know there's a lot of debate to that. Let's let's not even look at it that way.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:40

I think they are. I think that there is absolutely an aspect sorry to cut you off.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:44

No, it's fine.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:44

I think there's an aspect of them that are probably, you know, maybe like a little sexed up just for the sake of, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:50

Just making it a compelling horror story, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:53

Yeah. But I genuinely think that from what it sounds like, the creator has a very, very detailed process of choosing these stories out. So I think that maybe I believe the first one is the only one that was based off of a Reddit story.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:10

Yeah, because then after that he started taking submissions.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:13

He's yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:14

So I think that probably what he most likely do does based off of it is he has like a Google form or something where people do their submissions. Anyone he finds interesting, he like gets into call with them essentially. Yeah. And asks them to basically recount it. And basically, like that's the process that it sounds like it is. So I genuinely think that every single experience in the Fears of Atoms series, maybe except for the first one, maybe that Reddit story was not real.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:38

But the first one's so innocuous in itself.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:40

Like that like, yeah, but I I genuinely believe that every single one of those stories probably happened.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:45

Yeah, and he probably just added some stuff to make it more fun as a gaming experience. Yeah. But so, so and and and to that point, and and I think this is interesting, and I think it it is true whether or not we look at this as a real experience or a fictional experience, because it it does work out the same way. Is that being self-aware and being aware of your surroundings and knowing when to hide and when to run and where to go and how to handle yourself, that's very important. But also a huge part of the Fears of Atom series is just luck. A lot of these situations are solved by a third party coming right when you're about to get caught, or by just waiting long enough for the cops to arrive, or just anything like that, or literally making a break for it in time. But literally, like so many of these stories that was the ex-girlfriend. Ex-girlfriend, you you you want the police to come. You make a run for it in Iron Bark. Um, the police and your friends come in whatever getaway. Something getaway, I can't remember the name of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:43

Um that I haven't played yet.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:45

Scratch Creek is the new one, but I don't think that's out yet.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:48

Let me ask you loads.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:49

That one's gonna be multiplayer.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:51

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_02 1:10:52

Yeah. Which is why I think we should play that together.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:56

Woodbury Getaway. Woodbury City Harper.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:58

Yeah. Uh Iron Bark Lookout.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:03

Uh Home Alone, Norwel and Hitchhike, Carson House, Iron Bark Lookout, Woodbury Getaway, and then we got Scratch Creek.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:10

Scratch Creek is in production.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:12

Um I will play these shit out of the room. It looks so different. It was really high quality.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:16

I don't know anything about it. Again, I don't look at this stuff, but I'm curious about it. We'll we'll look at it together. But again, luck. And and just Yeah. That is what makes the grounded horror work so well. Is that it's not like you kill the bad guy or or or you escape and and and it's you you you you know, Texas Chainsaw Massacre. You get on the the the truck and watch the killer freak out in the distance as you maniacally laugh. Have you seen Texas Chainsaw Massacre? It's a great movie. People give it a weirdly bad rap. It's a actually a great movie. But uh I like it. Uh in so many of those stories that actually feel real, it is just kind of like, yeah, and then the guy went away because the cops came. And I never really got it.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:03

Does the coffee vending machine actually disappear?

SPEAKER_02 1:12:04

Oh, dude, I don't even know what that's that like people talk about what happens in Iron Bark Lookout, but truly the coffee machine roofy vending machine is probably the least realistic part of the entire thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:16

That was definitely game I find.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:17

That was everyone. What the hell is that supposed to be?

SPEAKER_01 1:12:19

Do you know what? Do you know, actually? I find the two most believable in the series to be Carson House and Iron Bark Lookout. I 100%.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:27

Well, I'm alone is very realistic.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:29

Ironbark is But considering the fact that it was that that first one was based off of a Reddit story, that could have happened to anyone. Sure, it's believable. But I genuinely think that Iron Bark Lookout, you go out to the middle of the woods in some Montana forest. Wasn't it? It could have been Oregon. It could have been Oregon, but the idea that there's people out there doing weird shit is almost guaranteed.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:53

That's true, but I I I I just doubt the level of organization that like an entire cult would be operating in the woods, because cults I don't know, historically like operate weirdly more publicly because that's how you get more people to be in the world.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:07

Sure, but it seems like they were doing some different shit. Like say two.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:10

Maybe, like, true, like, truly, Iron Bark is one of the most divisive where it's very hard to be like, is this real? Like, cause like there is crazy shit that happens in the world, but like that feels so on the nose. But again, they could have added. Like, maybe it's not the roads.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:24

Like, for me who like, I have a buddy out in Montana, and like the amount of times he's been in the woods and seen people doing weird ass shit, like, I can believe a bit. I can 100% believe it.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:35

I I I don't doubt that there is weird shit happening in the woods. It seems like the best place to do weird shit if you gotta do it. So that is funny.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:43

Also, just just to kind of maybe close us out.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:46

Uh the eating sound in Fears to Fathom is awesome. And I like it a lot. It's awesome a lot. I really like it.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:52

Do you have oh my god. It's relaxing to me. It's uh do you have do you um do you watch ASMR videos?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:58

I do.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:59

I don't. I I get really weird with AM.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:01

In fact, uh, I think I have Mies the Phony or whatever it's called. There's the one that I like the most, which is actually like people eating like sugar crystal.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:10

Nah, nah, nah. This is also why I don't watch mukbongs. Um, I just I don't like it. Alright. We have talked about so much tonight. We've talked about the purge, we've talked about Saw, we've talked about uh conspiracy theories, we've talked about Urban Legends, we've talked about our own family history, we've talked about all kinds of stuff. Uh is there anything that you want to leave us off with? Do you want to plug any of your social medias? Do you want to talk about anything?

SPEAKER_01 1:14:41

Um, you know, I am not a super public guy when it comes to this sort of stuff. I I love talking. Please don't follow me on anything unless unless you feel extremely compelled to. Um I just I guess like what I gotta say is just like I love being here. Every single time I'm invited for any reason to be here, it's some of the most fun that I get to have. This community is so clearly um where I'm looking for. Passionate. And I don't think I've ever seen another community like it. So the fact that it's so close to home, uh that being through my brother. I mean, that's that's really neat. And I I hope you guys continue to watch. I hope you guys share with your friends. Um Yeah, do all those things and obviously the obligatory like and subscribe, but like seriously, uh, thanks for allowing me to be here. Because without your guys' without your guys' six uh without you guys leading to Connor's success, I wouldn't be here, at least not in this way.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:40

Yeah, dude. Um well I I am so happy to have you here. Obviously, you're my brother. I I I love you, and I love having you here, and and uh it's always a good conversation having you here. Um you did all the work for me, you know? Everything that Logan just told you to do, go ahead and do it. Like, subscribe, share with people. Um Boneheads, it has been a pleasure having you here. I am almost certain, because we are, in my count, three hours into stuff. Uh, this is almost certainly a two-part episode, and it almost certainly came out later than it was meant to. Um, but I really appreciate you uh joining us on this in this conversation, and uh, we'll see you in our next episode. So thank you so much for joining. I'll see you later, guys. Bye guys. Bye bye.

unknown 1:16:21

Bye bye.