Stop Being the Best-Kept Secret: Why Thought Leadership Matters

In Episode 3 of The Great Business Podcast, I’m joined by Antoinette Chappell to explore what thought leadership really means and why it matters more than ever.

The built environment is full of experts who are brilliant in a room but almost invisible online. Antoinette works with C-suite leaders and founders to change that, helping them turn their experience into clear, credible content that attracts the right opportunities.

In this conversation, we break down what thought leadership actually is (and what it isn’t), why it’s not about self-promotion, and how sharing what you know can genuinely help others. We also discuss the practical side,what to do, what to avoid, and how to get started without overcomplicating it.

At its core, this episode is about one simple idea; your experience has value and sharing it is how you create impact.

Thanks for listening to The Great Business Podcast.
If you enjoyed it, please follow the show so you don’t miss the next episode. And if you’ve got a minute, a quick rating or review really helps other people find us.

You can find more about The Great Business Company here:
Website: www.thegreatbusinesscompany.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-great-business-company/

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:12

Hello and welcome to episode three of the Great Business Podcast, the podcast where we are exploring one simple question: what makes a good business and what makes a great one? Today we're talking about something that affects almost every organisation but isn't always openly discussed. Who gets heard in business and who doesn't, and why does it matter? I'm Jennifer O'Donnell, co-founder of the Great Business Company, where we help organisations move from good to great by embedding what we call sustainable intelligence into the heart of how they are run. Our mission is to move sustainability and ESG away from compliance and tick box exercises to real opportunity growth and value creation. And something we've noticed is that those with the deepest knowledge often share it the least. Many people in business are highly knowledgeable, they may be influential in meetings, solve complex problems, they're shaping decisions, yet they can almost be invisible, certainly outside the room and sometimes even inside it. So in a world where so much professional conversation is now taken online, that visibility can come at a cost. If people cannot see what you're thinking, they can't learn from it, connect with it, or find you. The built environment is full of experts who are brilliant in a room, but almost invisible online. Antoinette Chappell is the thought leadership strategist and ghostwriter who changes that. She works with C-Suite leaders and founders to turn their hard-won expertise into content that makes the right people come to them. A qualified member of the Institute of Translation and Interpreting with nearly two decades in professional language services across four, yes, four languages, and Toinette brings an unusual skill to the table. She has the ability to listen carefully, capture exactly how someone thinks, and then translate that into written content that builds lasting visibility and authority. Based in London and well connected across property, construction and facilities management, she helps the sector's most knowledgeable leaders stop being its best kept secret. And it does raise an interesting question for all of us. How many brilliant people remain the best kept secret in their field? On this episode of the Great Business Podcast, we explore visibility, voice, and why sharing what you know might be one of the most important leadership skills today. So welcome to my guest, Antoinette. Hello. Hello, thank you for having me, Joan. Nice to be here. You're very welcome. It's great to have you. From your perspective, Antoinette, what actually is thought leadership?

SPEAKER_01 3:12

Thought leadership is very different to what people think of as content marketing, which is sharing about products and services and basically selling them and creating a lot of noise about that. What thought leadership is, is sharing your ideas and your genuine perspective. How you think, what you think is coming down the pipe in your industry is very important. So you're looking forward and you are anticipating problems, challenges, things like that, and you're sharing them with people in your industry so you can lead the conversation. It's very important this day and age when things are moving so fast that people find people in their space, in their industry they can look up to as role models and thought leaders, follow their content and keep up to date themselves.

SPEAKER_00 3:57

The challenge that a lot of leaders have is they see it as self-promotion. But it's not self-promotion.

SPEAKER_01 4:06

And that is different. There is a little bit of overlap. So, for example, with the people that I work with, there will be a bit of you, you also need to show a little bit of you, what you're about, what's important to you, your values, because if people are going to follow your content, they also need to like you a bit, you know. So there is overlap, but it really isn't the same because this really is about what's going on in work most of the time. So I work with people, we create their content pillars, we we identify what they are, and we make sure that they're talking about subjects that stay in their lane. They're not going off on a tangent talking about sport, politics, anything else that's going on in the world. They're talking about their subject consistently, no more than three content pillars. So that's really, really important for the people I work with. Whereas personal branding, it might be one day, yes, I went on holiday, oh, I love shopping here, or I like this food, etc. As I say, there will be if they've got certain routines they do, we might build that in because there might be that something in there that overlaps with what they do. So if they go to the gym every day, say at 5 a.m., well, that speaks of their commitment and dedication. And these are values that you want in people that you you're gonna follow in business.

SPEAKER_00 5:14

Staying in your lane, that's really key, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 5:17

Very much so, and lots of people don't, and that's when it all starts to go pear-shaped.

SPEAKER_00 5:23

Yeah, because I suppose keeping the two parts different, so keeping thought leadership as one thing you do, and then commenting on somebody else's post that is completely different to what you're actually saying in your in your lane.

SPEAKER_01 5:40

Well, oh gosh, yeah, that would be that would be really bad to do.

SPEAKER_00 5:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:44

People need to be very mindful because if people are following you and you comment on someone else's post, that will even come up in their feed, in their notifications, saying, Oh, so-and-so, you know, Jennifer O'Donnell has commented on so-and-so's post, they'll go and see it. And if you are contradicting yourself, that that they've lost respect, haven't you, from that person? So, yeah, it's very important that throughout all your communication on LinkedIn, it you're keeping it professional. Anything you would say to someone in a business meeting or at networking event in any business context, that's the sort of thing you should be talking about. Anything too much personal life, keep it on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, other platforms. You know, it is a professional platform, and it's the biggest network in the world with 1.1 billion users, and only 1% of those users creating content everyone else is consuming. And in that respect, it's quite easy, therefore, to carve a niche for yourself. It is about having that niche with those three content pillars that are just unique and specific to you.

SPEAKER_00 6:42

Yeah. Tell us about your journey, Antoinette. How did you get into thought leadership?

SPEAKER_01 6:47

Okay, so my background is translation. I've been a professional translator since 2007. Um, before that, I was a language teacher, so I've always been passionate about languages. As you said, I worked with four languages for all those years. Um, one thing that I learned in translation, I remember one of my lecturers or my master's course saying is before you can translate, you have to understand the source text. And I apply that now to the thought leadership of very much. I have to understand their thinking, what their business goals are, what they want to achieve by hiring me to do their thought leadership ghostwriting and creating content, a strategy for them. Um, so then we translate into content that that does that, that works towards that very specific goal. Um I went from translation into copywriting, I pivoted about 2019-2020, the pandemic hit these two industries heavily automated by AI, translation first, and then copywriting with ChatGBT, etc., coming out at the end of 2022. Um, in 2023, I wrote a book called Copy That to help other translators that were struggling in the industry and needed to create another revenue stream. I was looking around, we were getting very little support from the professional organizations out there and bodies that I felt could have helped a bit more, but everyone was still harping on about human translation is better than machine translation. Yes, it is, but there aren't enough hours in the day. And what's the market doing? The market is buying machine translation because it's cheaper and it's faster. So I read that book, got to the end of 2023. Um, everyone at networking events was sort of sniggering at copywriting, going, ChatGBT, I don't need you. And then I looked and it was about going up a vertical and looking a bit higher up and thinking, well, the people at the top really could do with some help because they don't want to use Chat GBT, which will just make you sound like everyone else. It just takes information and creates an average. So uh the people at the top still want really good quality content. It doesn't mean I don't use AI, but I use AIs at all. And because I know what good writing looks like, I know how to prompt it correctly, edit it, curate it, all that good stuff. People that I work with now are at the top. They are founders or they are C-suite executives that want to become thought leaders, either to create value for their business or if they're looking for their next board position, then the headhunters and the investors and people that want to find them, they're gonna look you up online. They need to see how you think. Do you think strategically? Um, you know, are you someone we want on our team? What problems have you solved in the solved in the past? What do you think is coming down the pipe for our industry?

SPEAKER_00 9:26

It is it is really interesting what you said about chat GPT because authenticity is becoming more and more valuable.

SPEAKER_01 9:34

100%.

SPEAKER_00 9:35

And yeah, and being able to hear somebody's voice is critically important to get that cut through.

SPEAKER_01 9:42

Yeah, and that lived experience, which of course chat GPT, Claude, everyone else, it it can take a lot of information, condense it, spit something out, but it you have to really feed it your experience. You have to share those insights, you know.

SPEAKER_00 9:57

Yeah, and chat GPT can be great. I mean, when I did one of my sustainability courses um at Cambridge University, they said you can use AI, but don't let it write for you. And I'm I'm like, there's no way I am doing this course and using Chat GPT, I'm going to do it all myself. But actually, where Chat GPT is really good, and I guess this is where you can use it in thought leadership, it gives you some structure.

SPEAKER_01 10:23

Yeah, I can give you a starting point. It you can, you know, you can use it for things like, well, I have this idea or this knowledge, what can I do with it? And you it's idea generation. I think it's great for that.

SPEAKER_00 10:33

What made you notice that so many experts are really good in a room but invisible online?

SPEAKER_01 10:41

Uh well, so I do a lot of networking in property and construction, and until last month, I was working as director of communications for Property Connect Networking, hosting their flagship London Bridge event and their Brighton event. And what that did was meant I built really strong relationships with a lot of people in property construction and facilities management to the point that my it was it was great for my business, and I've I've actually had to step away because my business has grown to the point that I can't, I don't feel I have enough time to service two businesses. So um I noticed people in that industry, how they transact is very much based on relationships. It's really important to them, and the people in that industry are very good in the room, in front of people. Uh, word of mouth is is really good for them as well as finding referrals, but they're they're not so good at sitting at a desk and writing stuff down. They're great verbally, they're great in the room, they're great to talk to, they can sell anything verbally, but it's very different, extracting their thoughts and also they don't realise the value of what they know, I think, and the knowledge and expertise that they've accrued over several years, and how that can help people at an earlier stage in their career. For example, when I wrote my book copy that, I'd met a 22-year-old translation graduate, new graduate, who was looking at the industry, going, Is this really an industry I want to join? It's on its knees, it's nearly in its death rows. Uh, and I felt bad for her, and I won't I didn't have any resources to give her. And I said, No, look, you've got all these transferable skills. I'm gonna write a book that that's gonna help you. And I knew other people needed that help too in my industry. So I think the people, what I do with working with people in the built environment space, is help them work out the value that that's in their head, get it out into the universe where it can kind of start working working for them, get it into loops, get it into articles on the website, podcasts, etc. Some of the people I'm working with even doing a business book, if that works for them.

SPEAKER_00 12:38

It's really good advice for anyone in terms of being able to articulate the value that is in your head in a room, whether that be online or physically, because I've I came from a corporate background, and I have seen so many instances in meetings where certain people will dominate the conversation and it will be the same people, and then you find that the the meeting is unproductive because some people are in there. Well, everybody's in there with a different agenda, and some people's agenda is just to say something, it doesn't really matter what it is, as long as I contribute in some kind of way, and it's not the best system for businesses to get the best out of their people.

SPEAKER_01 13:28

No, and I think it's great in this day and age that we have LinkedIn. So perhaps some of those people in the room that maybe weren't given an opportunity to speak or didn't feel confident enough to speak can voice their opinions and create a profile and a persona, you know, online and can be on LinkedIn sharing their thoughts, become a thought leader, even if they are silent in a meeting room. There's another space, another medium for them to explore to be heard and to get their thoughts and ideas out there and opinions.

SPEAKER_00 14:00

Yeah, absolutely. Because those sometimes those quieter voices can sometimes have the most thoughtful perspectives.

SPEAKER_01 14:08

Yeah, I mean that's absolutely 100% true.

SPEAKER_00 14:12

I mean, you just take the the example of Apple, and you know, Steve Wozniak wasn't the biggest orator, but he was certainly he was the brains behind what had happened, and Hewlett Packard wouldn't listen to him, and it took Steve Jobs to come on board and see what he had. And I think um that's so relevant in in so many different companies, and finding that confidence to know that you do have that value that you can contribute. My youngest daughter has just gone to um university, she's in her first year, and she is going to quite a few different political debates, and there's a lot of people in the room. And I said to her, You need to say something, but not just anything, but break that barrier. And she said, Oh no, no, I can't do that. But last week she went to one and she said I did. I the microphone came over to me and I spoke. And I think sometimes breaking that barrier, whether it's in a physical room or whether it is online, is something that you have to do, you have to take that leap.

SPEAKER_01 15:17

Definitely. And a lot of people I work with, they're very shy, nervous, or feeling awkward in the beginning, very much like your daughter. And yet, once the posts start to go out and they get the reactions, um, they grow in confidence, and your daughter will do the same. And I think that was excellent advice that you gave her, and she'll remember that, I'm sure, when she's older. And it can be the hardest thing can just be getting started with it.

SPEAKER_00 15:41

Yeah. Do you know what's interesting though, Anton Antoinette? She she won't post on LinkedIn, and these are digitally savvy kids. It's like how do you make your first kind of statement in the business world? I guess that's what it is. They're intimidated by a world that they don't know.

SPEAKER_01 16:00

Yes, they're probably more comfortable on other platforms and they've been told you need to you you're in the working world now, get on LinkedIn, and then suddenly everyone has sort of been on there longer than them, is older, has more experience. They probably do feel intimidated. But one thing I think is important is that there's a lot of people like um in their space like us that are posting that they can learn a lot from from that as well. So you don't have to be on there posting. You had someone on Amazing last month who, you know, been part of a startup in her early 20s, that was an incredible story, and she has a lot to value and a lot to share. But I think it is about having some experience to share and knowing your audience. She needs there must there's probably an audience, perhaps other young people, she could start talking about her journey and help people of her own age get onto LinkedIn. And the whole point of what I'm trying to tell other thought leaders, other people that are my closest of perhaps in to my age, is that um look, we've got all these insights. I think we do have a responsibility to younger generations to share what we've learned. Let's get this stuff out of our head. And I'm not talking about sharing IP, obviously, but I am talking about what what do you do when in a challenging situation? How do you respond? Um, there are things that there are problems common to all businesses, and within each industry and sector, there are problems and issues common to them. So talk about a time when something happened without naming names or being too specific, as I said, so you're not giving away any company or trade secrets, but do share that knowledge. So I think there's huge value then for your daughter and her peers to go on to LinkedIn and learn from that.

SPEAKER_00 17:44

And what would you say to somebody that's just kind of uh hearing this and thinking, I've I've got a lot to say. Where do I start? I've got a certain amount of followers on LinkedIn. Um, I've not really been posting. How do I find a voice that people can see? And how do I find a voice that people will be enticed by what I say and want to comment on it?

SPEAKER_01 18:11

The whole find a voice that people can see and be enticed is sort of where we're going down a bit more personal branding and we're thinking a bit too much about impressing people and people get really caught up in the vanity metrics of it all. And I would say forget all of that, go back to what what value do you think you have within yourself? What knowledge do you have? Even if you have a very small audience, but if that audience is so super engaged with your content, it's worth you know, five, ten likes, impressions, that none of that matters. Because often the posts that go viral, they're not your ever going to be your customers, the people liking those to post. Talk about what you know, what you feel so comfortable. Here, here's where I was what I would say: what could you talk about all day till the cows come home, never get bored of talking about? That's what you should be talking about, right? And and just get started to start, but be consistent and don't give up.

SPEAKER_00 19:11

How important do you think that it is to be seen to have that presence with your peers, but also with potential other opportunities in the job market?

SPEAKER_01 19:23

I think well certainly for the people I work with. So if you're a founder, say you've got an exit strategy three years, you want to sell your company, then now you need to start working on your thought leadership. And it depends on your business goals, whether you want to retire or whether you are a younger founder and you want to start a new company, whether you work towards making the founder the thought leader, or the business itself can be a thought leader in its space, just like Apple might be a thought leader, or Steve Jobs to give an example. So we work, it depends on the the person I work with, what their strategy and their end goal is. So we're tailoring it around that all the time. Um so it's important because investors will want to buy a company that is a thought leader in its space and that people follow and already has this audience, it will increase the value of your company. If the founder wants to um do something different afterwards, then he needs to build his per profile and establish himself as a thought leader. It will be really helpful then when he starts his next company. If you're um C-suite or aspiring C-suite, yeah, you've got your eye on a board position or you want a non-executive director role. That's really important because board investors do look people up online before they contact you. And if your competitors or your peers are very visible online and they're publishing lots of articles, content, blogs, the headhunters or the board recruiters or even professors can see how they think and they like their thinking, they're gonna approach them, aren't they? Yeah. Because they haven't got the time to do this themselves, but they know it is important.

SPEAKER_00 21:02

Yeah. I mean, I can remember I was at Universal Music uh prior to starting my own company, but this was back in, it must have been not after LinkedIn was launched, and our sales director at that time said, Every c I want to see every single person in my sales team on LinkedIn and posting. And I think we were all just like, oh my god, what do we say?

SPEAKER_01 21:28

You can see why it's what not everyone's comfortable, are they doing that? And then you know, training, you can't just throw people in the deep end. That's like saying, I want to see you all swim a length, you've never gotten a pool before. That's harsh.

SPEAKER_00 21:42

I guess what he wanted to say was we we need our clients and all our stakeholders to be seeing how we are thinking as a company.

SPEAKER_01 21:52

I think that yeah, so I think he was right, but I think he should have offered you a little bit of training first. Yeah. Because I I think you do get that when the CEO's And leadership team are all singing off the same song sheet, but they're they're doing a different voice because the the one group of people I work with as well is leadership teams, because you don't want the CTO to sound like the CMO or the CAO, you want them to have the same o overarching message and which is part of the overall business goal, but in their own voice. So, yeah, right, you do want your sales team, for example, you do want to spread the word, you do want them to be on have that employee advocacy, and you do see that when the C-suite posts regularly, then people below start posting, sharing, and they also get to know their CEO a bit more, how they think, because they might never normally get near that person at the top.

SPEAKER_00 22:41

Do you think that there's a mindset with some leaders that their knowledge is power, and therefore that's something to be kept to themselves rather than to be shared?

SPEAKER_01 22:54

Yes, we're not sharing IP, we're not sharing trade secrets, but we are sharing what's important, why it's important, um, you know, what what you're trying to achieve and and how you're doing it, the little things. You know, there's actually the CEO of MS is on LinkedIn quite a lot, and he'll say, Oh, we got this new sandwich out, and oh look, here's me trying it, or here they are. I like that, I think that goes that works really well, and he's really popular. You know, just stay in the background, lead by example, and then what happens is everyone else who works for MNS is like, oh yeah, great, I'm gonna take a picture of me eating the sandwich. Um and and it has this snowball effect, I think. I know that do invest their time in thought leadership, never regret it. Opportunities come to them, the right opportunities, whether that's them being invited to you know do appear in the media, do speaking opportunities, um, people that want to work for them, it attracts the right talent.

SPEAKER_00 23:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:54

There's all sorts of benefits to it.

SPEAKER_00 23:56

Yeah, I mean it's a real way as well to get across what your brand is all about and the values of your brand. When when I was at Universal Music, I used to uh look after the supermarket sector, and this was the time, this was the time of CDs. And we used to go to the head office of ASDA, and one of the things that always impressed me with ASDA was that every single person that worked there knew what their mission was, they knew what their values were, and they knew what they were working towards. And I used to joke and say they get cloned as soon as they go in there, they go into some kind of cloning thing because they all come out and say the same thing. But that in a way is what you can do, perhaps not to that same kind of rigid extent.

SPEAKER_01 24:46

Yeah, come across as clones, but yeah, absolutely, brand value is really important. Yeah, make sure that everyone is projecting the same thing, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:54

I've never really been someone who's enjoyed social media, but I do see the benefit of doing this. What do you think the mistakes are that the people that people first make when they first start doing it? And what would you say to someone like me that's perhaps a bit of a reluctant poster?

SPEAKER_01 25:17

Most people I I work with are reluctant to start with. Um, so one of the mistakes that people make, they're not consistent, they're not posting consistently, they're not staying in their lane. That's a classic thing. Um, they're not engaging, that's really important as well. Do engage, follow other people you know that interest you in engage in their posts. And engage when people make a comment on your post, don't just think, oh, I've posted, that's enough. That's half the job, half of it is an engagement commenting because you're also demonstrating how you think in the comments, spark a conversation. So they're not they don't have a strategy, that's the biggest problem. They're not posting consistently and they're not staying in their lane. So my advice to someone like you who is reluctant is map out your content for a week or for a month. Just try if you're not comfortable, you know, you can build it up. You don't have to do Monday to Friday every week. Just say I'm gonna do two posts a week, but I know what I want to talk about, they're gonna be strategic, aligned with your business goals. Don't overthink it.

SPEAKER_00 26:19

I know. I'm the master of overthinking.

SPEAKER_01 26:21

Don't overthink it, just do it.

SPEAKER_00 26:23

Yeah, I get I guess also though, you do have to be really careful that you don't share something that's going to have like a really big impact. I was like, do you remember years ago, Gerard Ratner?

SPEAKER_01 26:39

I did uh I did a webinar with Lynn Stainthorpe. She's uh uh an expert in branding, so she was talking about personal branding, and I was talking about thought leadership and the difference, and we did use that example. Did you? That's yeah, because he's he lost his business overnight, didn't he, by saying crap.

SPEAKER_00 26:54

Yeah, that was the word he used.

SPEAKER_01 26:56

On sandwich or something in MM. Yeah, so you didn't want to do that. Yeah, and if we look at someone like Elon Musk, his personal brand in the last year or two has kind of gone very hewish. So yeah, you have to be very careful. Um but I think most of us are very careful.

SPEAKER_00 27:16

Do you see that as a major barrier for people, that kind of reluctance to put themselves out there, perhaps thinking they're gonna say the wrong thing or somebody's gonna say, oh, look what they said.

SPEAKER_01 27:25

Oh, yeah, who do they think they are? And I think part of this is cultural. Um, I've had a few conversations about this with people, yeah. Because, for example, in the US, uh, where social media was born, obviously, people are much better at self-promotion. They don't things we call bragging, they see as normal what so what I achieved this, I've done this, I'm amazing, blah blah blah. That is normal to them, and they are that is part of their culture. That's an eyelid, but being British, we're a lot more reserved, and it can feel awkward and a bit like, who do you think you are? You know, and what people saying that and I I think we have to find a happy medium between their culture and ours, where it's like it's okay. We are if we don't tell people about what we can do, what we've achieved, who else will? So we need to get that out there, but in a way that isn't just like, oh wow, aren't I amazing? But look, this is how I help people, and I always start with a position of help. You're writing posts to help people. I know what you're doing in your space is about a lot about ESG reports, sustainability. So think there's a lot of businesses out there that could do with your help. So keep them in mind when you're writing. So I need to educate and I need to inform. And that's where a lot of my posts come from. A place where a starting point if I want to help people. So I'm not being all salesy, I'm just saying, look, if you're doing thought leadership, have you thought about doing this, do that, try this, try that? And it comes from a position of help. That's my advice for anyone.

SPEAKER_00 28:59

Yeah, and going back to our original question and what this podcast is about. Um, do you think that it can make the difference between being a good leader and a great one?

SPEAKER_01 29:12

Absolutely. I think there's a lot of leadership is about leading by example. So I think we we do need to get our thoughts out there so that people know who we are and what we stand for. And I think there's a great Churchill quote in my newsletter last month, you know, about um when something, yeah, it could go wrong, but if something you really believe in is aligned with your values, someone might call you out and not agree with you, but at least you stood up for something one time in your life that was important to you. And I think if in your heart you believe you're helping someone and it helps 99 people, and one person doesn't like it, well, I'm sorry, but I there are 99 people out there that that would that it did help, or even if you're just helping one person, it could make a massive difference.

SPEAKER_00 29:56

And that's leadership, leading by example. That's so great, Antoinette. It's been brilliant having you on. Um, I as we bring the conversation to a close, I think one of the things that really stands out for me is that expertise is no longer enough on its own. We need to be sharing it.

SPEAKER_01 30:14

You need to get it out of your head, yeah, and and share it with people that that can benefit. As Spider-Man said, Jen, great power upcomes, great responsibility. So be careful what you say, be mindful. But yes, I think do share your thoughts and insights.

SPEAKER_00 30:30

Antoine, thank you so much for joining me today and for sharing your perspectives. I think the one of the big things that I have taken on is to talk about something that you could just talk endlessly about and stay in your lane.

SPEAKER_01 30:46

Yes, brilliant. Great, two great takeaways, and I hope other people found it useful too. Thank you. All right, thank you very much.