Walks with Mom

Reverse Your Thinking: Don’t Always Believe What You Think

• Kimberly • Season 2 • Episode 1

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In this episode, we dive into a powerful and often overlooked conversation—how our mindset around homeownership impacts our financial future, especially as we age. Joined by special guest Isis Gauzens from Fairway Mortgage and a multi-generational perspective, this discussion challenges the traditional “pay off your home at all costs” belief many families have carried for decades.

We explore where this mindset originated, tracing it back to historical financial structures like the Great Depression and how those fears have been passed down through generations. While paying off a home once represented security, today’s financial landscape offers more flexible and strategic options that many families are not considering.

Isis shares how your home is not just a place to live, but potentially your largest financial asset—and one that can be integrated into a comprehensive aging and financial plan. From reverse mortgages to lines of credit and right-sizing your home, this conversation highlights how planning ahead can reduce stress, increase financial flexibility, and support better care decisions later in life.

A key theme throughout the episode is the importance of early, honest conversations. Many families avoid discussing aging, care needs, and finances due to fear—especially financial fear. But by addressing these topics proactively, families can create clarity, reduce uncertainty, and make empowered decisions together.

This episode is a must-listen for anyone navigating the responsibilities of caring for aging parents, planning for their own future, or simply wanting to better understand how to align their financial strategy with long-term life goals.

Guest Bio:
Isis Gauzens is a mortgage professional with Fairway Mortgage, specializing in helping individuals and families integrate homeownership into their overall financial and retirement planning. With a focus on education and strategy, she works closely with clients to evaluate their full financial picture and identify opportunities to use their home as a tool for long-term stability and flexibility.

Isis is passionate about breaking down outdated financial beliefs and guiding clients through options such as reverse mortgages, home equity strategies, and right-sizing decisions. Her approach emphasizes proactive planning, informed decision-making, and reducing the financial stress that often accompanies aging and caregiving transitions.

Come with us as we explore what it means to navigate these years with our aging loved ones.

So grab a cup of coffee—or maybe a glass of wine—subscribe, invite your friends or family, and join us for Walks with Mom.

Special thanks to our Sponsor Amada Senior Care Mesa serving families and seniors in Phoenix, Scottsdale, Chandler, Mesa, and the surrounding East Valley area. Accredited VA Provider (NPI # 1558048199) and Trusted resource for Long-Term Care Insurance Claims

Compassionate, personalized in-home senior care starts here – contact Amada Senior Care Phoenix today by phone at (480) 418-5422 or visit us online to get started and give your loved one the support, dignity, and independence they deserve.
www.amadaseniorcare.com/mesa-senior-care

SPEAKER_02

Aging is not for the faint of heart. I'm Kim, a Proud Generation Xer, and I'm here with my baby boomer mom Karen. Together, we'll tackle the tough but necessary conversations, share the hilarious and sometimes embarrassing moments, and open up about the stories that truly touch the heart. Come with us as we explore what it means to navigate these years with our aging loved ones. So grab a cup of coffee or maybe a glass of wine, invite your friends and family, and join us for Walks with Mom. Well, welcome back to Walks with Mom, where two generations share their perspectives on aging. My name is Kim, and I am co-host with my mom.

SPEAKER_01

And I am Karen, and I'm from the baby boomer generation.

SPEAKER_02

Awesome. Well, thanks for being here, mom. And we have a special guest with us today, Isis Gozens from Fairway Mortgage. Thank you. Oh my gracious.

SPEAKER_00

I think I qualify as Gen X, who's married to a boomer.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, alright.

SPEAKER_00

So I can just cover all of that.

SPEAKER_02

So you just cover all those bases all in one. Well, thanks so much for being here. And we are hoping that other people will enjoy this conversation. We have titled this Reverse Your Thinking. Don't always believe what you think. It is a very true statement. We need to dig in. Well, let's dig in. Let's just go ahead and start. So, mom, I didn't prep you a lot for this. So I feel like I'm walking on new territory. Well, you're gonna be great, mom. Okay. I believe in you. But I'm gonna ask ISIS. So many families don't connect mortgage planning to their age plan. Absolutely correct.

SPEAKER_00

Why do you think they don't do that? I think they have a set it and forget it mindset. And our traditional way of thinking about finance kind of puts your house in another little bucket over in the corner, which was something you do, and then you continue on with the financial plan and you never consider that your home is your biggest asset and that maybe it should be included as part of your plan.

SPEAKER_02

Huh. So you never include it. And I know that your generation mom has this thought of you need to pay off your house, right? Like that's that's kind of like the end goal.

SPEAKER_01

Before you die, your house is paid off. Well, that's one of your primary things. Pay off your house so you're not paying interest. Um Yeah. Where did that mindset come in, do you think? I think it's just the way we were raised. You the house is is you always will have a place to live if you own your home.

SPEAKER_02

You know, when we were sitting at the kitchen table, um, a little bit, because I kind of prepped you just a tad, but you you even used the word, you were fearful that the house would be taken away. Didn't you say something like that?

SPEAKER_01

Well, yeah, you are all always fearful you can't make the mortgage payment or something's gonna happen and you won't have a place to live. So you want to ensure that you have a place to live. So pay off your mortgage as soon as you can. Okay. And then you own the house and nobody can take it away from you. Got it. Is our thinking. And um, yes, I think we always think of it as as an asset, but of course, it's not a fluid asset.

SPEAKER_02

Right. It's not like something that can be liquidated quickly and immediately. Right, right. Exactly. Yeah. Well, ISIS, I loved our conversation. You shared with me where did this thinking come from that this generation and probably generations uh before her get this thinking.

SPEAKER_00

And generations are continuing the disinformation. We just kind of push that along. Um, you're correct. You cannot take your front mat or your shingle to the bank. And it's not worth anything, right? It's just it's your place to live and you've got the comfort and you know that. Always have a place to live. Always have a place to live. Just like every financial product, mortgages have changed, just like insurance and banks. Back in the 30s, when the Great Depression happened, the mortgages were set up so that they were big balloon payments that were due at the end. So many people had a shorter mortgage period. They had to pay the interest, and then they had a balloon payment that was done at the end. And they couldn't go refinance at that point in time because there were banks that were completely going out of business. So there was no place to get money.

SPEAKER_02

So if you didn't make that a balloon payment, you lost your home. So that's kind of where that fear started.

SPEAKER_00

Which is kind of, you know, 90 years later is still sticking with us. We see that in a way a lot of people in that mindset and that need to pay off your home was that guarantee that no matter what happens, I have a place to live.

SPEAKER_01

That's exactly right.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. That's so interesting. But we don't, I mean, we don't live in that reality of balloon payments anymore, or that it's going to be taken away if we can't have that balloon payment, right?

SPEAKER_00

That is correct. And during that time between the 40s and even now, think about how much retirement has changed. Like retirement didn't even exist until the early 1900s. And so then there were pensions, and then social security became involved, and then we got rid of pensions, and now 401ks are involved. And right. So there's no one right way to do it. But we have a mindset right now that just says that house needs to be paid off.

SPEAKER_02

Now, mom, I know that you and I own our house together. So this is uh, you know, probably not a question for you, but you have other friends in your sphere of influence, your circle, that have their homes. Do you think they've ever thought about using their home to help with their aging plan? Or are they in this mindset of paying it off or they don't even think they include it?

SPEAKER_01

I doubt that they think much about it unless they're needing to go to assisted living and then they sell. We sell the home to have the money for that. Uh I'm not sure they even think that.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. So why do you think, or how do you think my generation can start trying to support our parents or reframe their thinking?

SPEAKER_00

Much of it starts with having conversations like this and not pushing it down the road until they're that, you know, it's on fire. And that somebody needs care immediately. And having a conversation to understand that there may be a time when somebody does need care and where do you want that to take place and who's going to be doing that? And taking the financial piece out of it and the financial worry out of it really helps to move that conversation forward and the fear off of everyone's plate.

SPEAKER_01

I think you hit something important there is that the financial fear is the back of your house, uh, of your mind. And so a lot of people don't even want to even think about a time when they need extra help, either in the home or going to assisted living or whatever. They don't want to think about it because in the back of the mind there is that financial fear. Right.

SPEAKER_02

Well, and I think this would help with that financial fear if you could have some liquid assets available. So, what are some of the products? What are some of the ways that you help people utilize their home in order to have something that could be for planning and preparation, right? We don't know what is going to happen or when it's going to happen. The likelihood that something happens as we age is pretty high. Great. Yeah. Right. But we don't know when or or the circumstances around that. But what are some of the products or what are some of the services?

SPEAKER_00

I don't know how to phrase that. Absolutely. So on our team, so Julie and I and Team Doyle, what we do is we sit down and we look at somebody's really their entire financial picture and see how the mortgage fits into that. So we want to be part of the whole financial plan. And when you start to peel back the pieces of that, you can find out, well, if you're younger and you don't have, say, long-term care insurance, or if you're older and don't have long-term care insurance, what would a reverse mortgage do? Would a line of credit that's just open and available that can't be taken away, regardless of what the housing market does, would that happen to take your fear away so that in 20 years you knew that you had money there that you could tap into? Would being able to not make a principal and interest payment every month change how you were able to allocate your money so that you would be able to have what you needed when you retired? Uh that's what we do, is we really dig in and we take a look. And some of the questions even are is this a home you're gonna stay in? Because, you know, the the three-story, you know, laundries in the basement, some can't take a problem. Those are conversations we have too, because people can actually purchase a home with a reverse mortgage. Why mean purchase another home? Purchase another home. So might be so we're gonna we call it right sizing because some people downsize and some people actually upsize in retirement. It's time to get what they want. And so now can we take, let's sell the home that you have, take that equity, and what does that equity look like with a reverse mortgage? And normally that either leaves extra money, liquidity in your pocket so that you can have money for those rainy days. Something does happen, we know it's gonna happen, or it helps you buy your dream house and gives you some purchase power boost on that. Wow. I know. So this is this is where if you have the information, you can start to plan. And if you can just see the picture ahead of time and you have the information ahead of time, then you can plan accordingly. Right, right. Too many people wait to the end. Right. And then it it's too much of a crunch time. It's crunch time, right? And you know how income changes when a spouse passes away. All of these things really we we take a look at and we have some hard conversations because it's important that we help prepare everyone around us so that we don't have to put that stress on everybody else.

SPEAKER_02

Yes, and our generation go into crisis management.

SPEAKER_01

Well, and and you said something that I thought was very important. And that uh, you know, when your spouse uh passes away, it's kind of a really crisis time because your whole life changes, your financial picture changes so very much.

SPEAKER_02

And and so I think what having these conversations with ISIS, Julie, and team Doyle just gives education. Like, are these opportunities that we want to consider and just prepare and plan because we don't know the unknown and or we don't, yeah, there is always the unknown, but it also helps when a spouse passes and the income changes, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And so often what we do is we head down this path and you miss the exit and you can't return, right? Hindsight is 2020. We get to the other side and only new. If you miss the exit on so much of these opportunities in life, you cannot go back. You can't go back. You can't go back. So providing information, getting information and just plugging that into your own unique situation helps you at least see it. Get the information and don't expect all the financial entertainers that are online or Family Guy or all the other people who talk about reverse mortgages in a way that's not fantastic. Don't let them educate you. Like come and actually find somebody that is what they specialize in.

SPEAKER_02

I love how you brought that out because I think before you and I started really talking and I started asking questions, I think there was all the these myths. And you're right, it was centered around, you know, what you're seeing on social media, and I was getting my education from that. And that was misinformation. Like so many other things.

SPEAKER_01

Well, and I think I've actually heard someone talk about this before, and the way it was presented didn't appeal to me at all. What do you remember what about it did not appeal? Um risky. Okay, risky. I felt it was risky. Um maybe I'm going back to my thinking about um needing to pay it off. Needing to pay it off. But I just felt like it was not a necessary step.

SPEAKER_00

So money is a feeling, like it's not really a feeling, but we money has emotional to it. And it's interesting that you say risky, because when I look at it, I think that somebody who has a paid-off home without a plan on how to use that, um, that's risky. I think it's risky to not um if you had a paid-off home, just have a line of credit open and available so that if you needed to get it, you would have it available. Because the house is never the bank's. It's just like a regular mortgage. You only pay what you've borrowed. So the bank is never gonna get your home. And that was, I think, one of the things that people I'm not sure people understand that. The bank doesn't get the home.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Um and I think the thing I'm I'm seeing now is that let's say you own your home outright and something happens, the market may have fell out fallen out of the housing market, and you can't sell it because nobody's buying right now.

SPEAKER_00

That is true. That is true. And we mentioned, you know, the paid-off house as the goal, but most people actually still have a mortgage. A lot of people still have a mortgage, and you can have a reverse mortgage. And what happens is instead of making a payment every month, it becomes optional. And the reverse mortgage kicks in, you you don't have a forward anymore, it's just a reverse mortgage, and you can make optional payments. So if you do have the money to continue to pay, you can do that. And with a home equity conversion mortgage, which is a very specific kind of mortgage, then you're able to go back and borrow that money back. So it it goes, there's it's a more of a savings plan. It can be like a savings plan, yeah. It it really puts some of those protections in there. And if you can imagine somebody with a $2,000 mortgage payment every month, $24,000 a year with at least 10 to a 20-year commitment, that is a lot of money to come up with.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And if you can ask your house to pay it ahead of time instead of waiting to sell down the road at an unknown at a market, market, yeah. Then why not ask your house to pay the bill today and be able to use that money for hopefully maybe care, which is a huge part of it.

SPEAKER_02

Which is a huge part maybe what we're talking about or how to fund that. And and I I was going to mention, sorry to cut you off, but I was going to say this has just been eye-opening for me because, you know, owning a modest senior care, I I hear so many people saying, um, senior saying, I can't afford it. I can't afford it. But they've lived in their house for 20, 30, 40 years. I can't afford care. I can't afford, you know, to have a caregiver in the home. And then you see the adult children that are stressed out, they are going back and forth. And then they finally go, well, then I'll pay for it. Right. And I'll pay for it. And I just see some of the anger, the resentment, some of the, you know, that changes the whole dynamic of that relationship. And I can see this as preserving that relationship between the two generations, right? Yeah. And definitely, you know, getting maybe the support in the home that is needed. And then the parents are paying for it with the equity in the home. I just think it's just amazing.

SPEAKER_00

If you think about the kids paying or, you know, the children stepping in. So often now their money is that's lost opportunity for them to invest in their retirement. And most people don't have that kind of cash lying around. And it is a stress on the family to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_01

Stress if they're having to pay.

SPEAKER_00

Right. But having that conversation ahead of time. How do we think we're going to pay for it? Having that set up just takes that question mark off the table when somebody says, why don't we just have somebody come in and take your blood pressure a couple of times a week, help you with your pills? Because as much as my grandmother, for instance, thinks that that's a big expense, the cost of that would just relieve so much stress on everyone else in the family.

SPEAKER_02

I think we were talking peace of mind. And so there is a uh a statistic out that my generation will lose about $300,000 to $500,000 in their lifetime caring for their aging parents. And that's because we're either spending our own money, we're not taking that promotion at work, right? Or we're taking a leave of absence, we're cutting ours, you know, a myriad of things. And I think you just mentioned, then that cuts into us building our wealth for our retirement and our aging years. Yeah. And so, mom, do you see how this could be a benefit for both generations, at least having a conversation?

SPEAKER_01

At least a better understanding of it. And and a conversation with both generations because some people see their homes as their legacy to their children. Absolutely. And so if you are taking a reverse mortgage, that's less legacy.

SPEAKER_02

But my question is, do you think the adult children see that as a legacy? They probably don't. Do you know that they've got a 50-year-old house, you know?

SPEAKER_01

They can do all this repair on it. But but, you know, I hear again that it's a mutual conversation where you get uh more information to make an intelligent decision. First, you have to realize that the parent most likely will need some assistance as they get older. And, you know, uh whether you choose in-home or your assisted living, it's got to be paid for.

SPEAKER_02

It's got to be paid for if they don't have long-term care insurance. Or this could supplement long-term care insurance. Right.

SPEAKER_00

We're always hoping that a family will be on the same page, of course, right? Everybody's going to be on the same page. A reverse mortgage is very much the person who owns the home. That's their final decision. And what we do on our team is we make sure that we're including the people who are you want to be or our client wants to have as part of the decision-making process. Sometimes that's a financial planner, sometimes that's the children. And it doesn't have to be the children. There's no obligation, right? We want to send that legacy down. And we have seen the ability to actually create a greater legacy by planning with a reverse mortgage than without a reverse mortgage.

SPEAKER_02

Really. That's interesting. And we like digging into those numbers. I love that. I think you have an example that you shared with me that somebody actually planned and prepared to avoid something in the future. Can you share that story?

SPEAKER_00

Um so many stories. And this is why we do what we do because we love to change that path and see the amazing benefit that you can get by planning ahead. Uh, we had a client in California, lovely home on the coast, and she needed to make some upgrades and she needed to do some changes because she was going to age in place. And she knew she wanted to do that. And her son very much likes the home. And her goal is she's actually going to give that home to her son when she passes away because it needs to be her primary residence number one, uh, when you have a reverse mortgage. That money helped her to create the space that was safe for her to be able to age in place. And now she has the ability to go and get some of the cash out of her home through the line of credit to be able to pay for it when it's time. And our conversation then trickles down to having a family um plan that he knows how he will take over that house. And that means that that mortgage will be paid off. But because of life insurance and investments, there's a way that we're going to pay that off. Wow.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it's it's well, you were telling me that she was using this because her goal is to age a place. Absolutely. But to do that, she had some forward thinking, knowing that she needed to maybe widen doors for the event that if there was a wheelchair or something of that. So, you know, she was going to do the bathroom. Bathroom always needs to be remodeled and make it safe. So that's one of the places that most falls happen and most crises occur is in the bathroom, whether showering or toileting. And so she used that to revamp some of those things. So she can make that happen.

SPEAKER_00

Again, if we had waited until an emergency had happened, we don't have that choice anymore. Can't go off that exit. We can't go off that exit. And it would have been a crisis moment. Instead, we're planning ahead. And I'm sure there will be crises that come up because that's the nature of life. But we've we've planned that.

SPEAKER_01

Hope, hopefully, I've Yeah. I guess that's one thing you can expect, except for dying, you can expect some crisis.

SPEAKER_02

And then money will be part of pretty much every conversation in that. Money will be part. So, how does somebody connect with you and your um and team Doyle ISIS? How does somebody connect with you?

SPEAKER_00

Very good. We are on uh you can find us on LinkedIn, of course. But you can my name is Isis Gosens and you can find me there. But you can also find uh Julie Doyle at our Fairway Mortgage site. We have a reverse mortgage website that will help you go in and actually figure out if this is maybe a conversation you want to start and just get information so that we can get that bowl rolling and you know what your choices are. So Julie Doyle at Fairway Reverse Mortgage.

SPEAKER_02

I love it. And so all these conversations are complimentary at first and then you know, just getting the education. Education will determine how to move forward from there.

SPEAKER_00

All of there is there's no compensation for any of these conversations. And it's actually what I get to do every day, which is educate about reverse mortgages.

SPEAKER_02

I love it. Best job. I love it. I know that you've educated me and actually opened my eyes to this conversation. And I can just even see from mom that she's like, huh. I guess I need to break down some of those misconceptions or those old beliefs. Well, we'll talk to ISIS about that.

SPEAKER_00

We got a plan for that. This is not about waiting until retirement. We've a plan way before retirement on how home equity works. We're gonna plan and prepare.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you. Well, thanks so much for being with us today, ISIS. And thank you so much for our audience joining us on Walks with Mom, and we will see you on the next walk.

SPEAKER_01

This is Karen, and I just wanted to say thank you for spending some time with us today. Please come back for more laughs, more connections, and more real life moments between these two generations. See you on the next walk.