Maged Roushdi

This week I sit down with my mentor Maged Rushdie — a veteran and ensemble member at Dad's Garage who you've seen in Blackground, The Tight Acquaintances, and Invasion Christmas Carol (which he's also directed). Maged has been improvising since 2001, and we cover an enormous amount of ground, starting with his trial-by-fire origin story: his very first time on stage was in front of a live audience, with no training, and he somehow "won".

At the heart of this episode is a genuinely useful deep dive into the acting side of improv. Maged breaks down objectives, tactics, and expectations, makes the case that every improviser is an actor, and walks through a flower-pot scene and a divorce scene to show why a want should be something only your scene partner can give you. We also get into the nuance of giving good notes (note the move, not the choice), why everything you need is already in a level one class, handling burnout, the real purpose of jams, and finding theatricality through stillness. Plus the case for a well-placed dick joke, breaking on an inflatable T-Rex, and a pitch for "Gymprov." It's long, it's fun, and it's packed with wisdom for improvisers at any level. Enjoy!

Transcript

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Introduction

Joel 0:02

Welcome everyone to the Joy of Improv podcast with me, Joel Camargo. Today's guest is a mentor of mine and a key figure in the Atlanta improv scene, Maggot Rusty. Maggot is a veteran and ensemble member of Dad's Garage. He plays in several shows there. Blackground, the improvised Dungeons and Dragons theme show called The Tight Acquaintances, Invasion Christmas Carol, and has also directed that show. I learned so much from Maggot in this episode, we discussed the importance of the basics and how some of the simplest level 1 skills can still improve your improv scenes today. We talk about being introduced to live improv in a trial by fire and how that influenced his view of performance. We talk about the nuances of giving notes to students or teammates and so much more stuff in this episode. Here's my interview with Maggot Rushdie. Welcome to the Joy of Improv Podcast. I'm Joel Camargo and I'm sitting here on my couch with Maggot Rushdie. Maggot say, What's up? What up, Atlanta? Yeah, all of Atlanta.

Maged 1:14

Everyone. This is that's everyone. Oh, globally.

Joel 1:16

There's some, there's some uh I get some listeners from random countries sometimes. Yeah, cool. Yeah. So we're international, baby. Uh that's awesome. This is awesome. Yeah. Uh thank you so much, uh, Maggot. You've been such a huge mentor of mine over the last few years, teacher, friend.

Maged 1:31

I told Joel to say that. I told you to say that.

Joel 1:34

Uh you did.

Maged 1:35

Yeah.

Joel 1:36

So I appreciate you doing that for me. You're welcome. And I appreciate the Venmo. Yeah, Venmo payment. Um, but truly, it's been such a great few years getting to know you better at Dad's Garage, having you my mentor uh for the jams and classes and everything. Uh, but I'm curious to hear about your origin story of improv. How did you get to improv?

Winning at Improv on Day One

Maged 1:59

So it all started in 2001, uh, which I think by and large, like most of the Atlanta improv community was probably born after that. Like, I think I've been doing improv for longer than a lot of people here have been alive. So it's a great quantity of experience. And of course, given that it's improv, the quality of that experience depends on the given, on the night that I'm performing. But it started in 2001. I was in high school. I did drama club because my friends were doing drama club. I had there were two main clubs that I was part earth, uh, extracurriculars that I was doing in high school. And one was wrestling because my friend did wrestling, and the other was drama club because they the they wanted to do that to pick up girls, like just hands down, like the it was there were like wrestling speaking. No, no, the uh drama clubs. Oh, the drama clubs pick up girls, okay. The and although anyway, the and that was kind of like the I like for sure what started us there. Like, I've I've never picked up a girl in high school drama club or anything like that, but the we did like we all joined, like we all did it together and like fell in love with it. Like a lot of us are in the industry here and there and like have um touched it in different ways. The so it started in 2001. I was in high school and I was in drama club, and there was a I grew up in Gwynette and at South Gwinnett High School they did a comedy sports where it was just short form improv from all the schools like that were around the area. And my teacher was like, Hey, we're doing this thing, and none of us asked any questions whatsoever. The she was like, This is improv, and we're like, Okay, cool. Um, and we I jumped, we jumped up on stage, and it was me and two of my friends in high school, one of which I'm still very close friends with, like he's a ride or die, and we made it to the finals. So, my very first time ever stepping on stage to do improv, I quote unquote won at improv.

Joel 4:19

And were the was there any training beforehand? None whatsoever. So, y'all were practicing the games at least, the comedy sports, like some of the games or anything like that? No, we none.

Maged 4:30

The first time ever doing improv was in front of a live audience. I was a high school kid. Oh my gosh, I was a high school kid, like with my friends, there's an endless amount of confidence that both confidence and insecurity that can coexist at the same time when you get a bunch of teenage boys that are trying to press impress each other and girls at the same time. So you just kind of like go for it.

Joel 4:59

Yeah, that's where the magic is. Yeah.

Maged 5:01

Yeah, that energy the magic's in the scrotum in our developing scrotums. That's where the magic is. Insane. Um, so like it was like that was the we just I just went up and like we my friend did it. I remember it was uh my friend, it was my friend um Atkins who like he had a we were doing props. You just like grab a prop and make it whatever it isn't, and he grabbed a frisbee, and his was like um this is you know 25 years ago. I still remember this like joke, which I think points to the magic of improv because it was so spontaneous, it like brought down the house. But he held a frisbee up and he was like, Hey, if anyone sees Godzilla, can you tell him I found his contact? And it was that's great, that's great. Yeah. I remember that night I had um I was wearing an iHeart New York shirt because I was like, it looked like it felt kind of like a hipster, like something to do, uh ironically. Like I was kind of wearing a shirt, like a tourist shirt. Uh, and I had I picked up um I was playing uh sheets, like lines that were all scribbled on the floor. And even then, I there was like a tenacity. I was like, I'm gonna read these lines and I'm gonna justify them and like make them oh wow, and I was just like, I wanted to live at like the edge of mischief. Uh and I picked up one of the very serendipitous uh line on a scrap of paper that was like the song lyrics from New York, New York, and I just read it and like lit up, and it was the button that called the scene, ended the show, and it was like the it was just it felt

Copying What You See & "Stealing" in Improv

Maged 6:52

right.

Joel 6:52

So cool. So so your first um dabbling with improv was comedy sports in high school. And was there anything before high school that like gave you an inclination to drama, acting, theater, or was that the drama club in high school was the first thing?

Maged 7:09

I feel like drama club in high school was sort of it. Like that that's where I would point to like the beginning of it for me. And everything that predates that is you you know me. I'm a bits heavy person. Like I I think I'm 90, I'm 90 bits in any 10 sincerity, 90 bits. Uh and it is it's just like the friend group always had that. The my brothers, we always had that. Like we grew up on, you know, SNL and Conan O'Brien and The Simpsons, um the for like a weird, I was obsessed with Conan O'Brien. Like the anything that he touched, I was crazy about. Like, I used to stay up late and watch the Conan O'Brien talk show. Yep. And be like, I want to be on that one day. Yeah. And I don't know why. Like the it's just one of those things that I was just like such I was enamored by the alternative comedy aspects of it.

Joel 8:19

I loved Conan growing up too. Yeah. As a child, I'd stay up late and watch Conan O'Brien specifically compared to the other talk shows. I didn't enjoy the other talk late-night talk shows. I loved Conan because of how wacky and silly he was.

Maged 8:32

Yeah, it was like abstract and he was a weirdo. It made me seen it be seen as a weirdo. Like I was like, he sees me. If he can do it, I can do it. Yeah, that's awesome.

Joel 8:42

That's awesome.

Maged 8:43

And I think you might have a similar experience, but like the first couple of years, like maybe five years that you're doing improv, you're just repeating a lot of the stuff that you see anyway, right? Like in life, in life or in comedy. Like, I just I remember my first night, I just was copying, like, I I think I did lines from that I'd seen from uh Whose Line Is It Anyway? Because I saw like Colin Mockery or Ryan Styles do like a funny thing, and I was like, I'm just gonna do what they did. And people laughed and I was like, I'm a genius.

Joel 9:19

Like Yeah, did you um that's so funny? Did you feel any guilt at all?

Maged 9:24

None whatsoever. I was okay cool, cool. I was a uh I was a 14-year-old boy. It was not possible for me to feel guilt.

Joel 9:32

Well what if you had done that in adulthood at a show, like recent like recently.

Maged 9:38

The no, I'll I'll rip some I'll rip somebody off of their comments.

Joel 9:45

Okay, I love that. That's really validating. That's really valid because early on in my improv journey in like the first year or two, I had ripped uh uh like a joke from an improv scene that I've seen, like on YouTube or a a show or something. And because the circumstances were like identical to where that line would have fit, and so and I delivered it, I forgot what it was, but it fucking killed the room exploded, and but I felt icky afterwards. Everyone was like, Oh my god, that line, you're so funny, you're so and I was like, oh shit. I felt for whatever reason I felt guilty.

Maged 10:22

But then you never told anyone that it was like the yeah, see, I would have said I would have been like, oh yeah, I ripped that shit. I would I I took it. You would have just owned it, yeah. 100%.

Joel 10:34

Wow.

Maged 10:35

In fact, I've called people out on stage before for like doing like doing a sketch that I like uh like uh specifically like um just an obscure sketch and like kind of starting the scene with that premise, and I'm like I've seen this before, I know that like this is but it also doesn't matter, doesn't it? None of it matters.

Joel 11:03

Yeah, I think that's what I've boiled it down to now. It doesn't matter, yeah. It's gone, most people will forget anyway.

Maged 11:08

And you can't like how do you steal stuff in improv, right? Like the you can't ever move all of that context over.

Joel 11:18

Yes, it's so rare. Yeah, it's so rare for um the context and and scenarios to line up exactly.

Maged 11:26

I think like the like the way like in stand-up comedy, you can steal a joke, right? Like the you can take a premise, you can take a pun, like you can be like, oh, I've heard this joke before. Sometimes comedians get to the same joke, and it's because it's obvious enough to where they don't like two people are working on jokes about the same things at the same time, current events and stuff like that. But in improv, you can't really like take it's such a we're connected to the audience, we're building everything off of the audience and each other, and that's the context that I feel like you cannot move over to something else. How you can steal things in improv is just like taking people's characters and stuff like that, or like the I've had conversations over the years about like people and their stock care stock quote unquote characters that they like jump into and you just like take somebody's character. But even then that's funny because the if you if you had a stock character and I did it to you, like that would be there's a bit of mischief there that I would really enjoy.

Joel 12:29

Yeah, there's a bit of mischief there. I think depending on the context again. I think I think it's fair game if depending on the context.

Maged 12:36

Um one time I did a scene in college where I went on stage and I played my scene partner in the scene, and he played me. And like we played each other, like the uh we just like from the instant, like we're it's like a insanely dear friend. Love the guy. It's Zach Bromberg, Zachary Bromberg, Elena Improviser. I the scene premise was I was waking up on his couch complaining about a girl, and that's all he needed to know that he was gonna be consoling me through this whatever it was as me. Yeah, so it was the most meta scene I'd ever done in my and it was in a rehearsal. Best scene I think he and I have ever done together.

Drama Club to College Theater & Improvising Poems

Joel 13:35

Wow, that's hilarious! Yeah, that's hilarious. So this is college. So we go from comedy sports in high school, and then I'm assuming you were bitten by a bug and were like, oh, I want to keep doing this.

Maged 13:47

Yeah, I went to in high school, all it was my sophomore year of high school, I did the comedy sports, uh, and then I did drama club and like did the different levels of drama club in high school.

Joel 13:59

And that's like scripted stuff. That's like mostly scripted stuff. Yeah.

Maged 14:02

I for my background, and I think everyone that meets me and interacts with me in the Atlanta improv scene, like I'm a I'm an actor. Um all of my improv stuff is acting. Acting to me isn't any different than improvising, it's all the same thing. Uh, I think quote unquote improvisers that don't think of themselves as at as actors are limiting themselves from, and I think the opposite side of that coin is true too. I see actors jump into the scene that are too heavy in the acting, like, oh, this is what my character, my character would never do that, and stuff like that. And even if you're in a scripted show and you say that, that's bad acting, but we're gonna have to get into that. So I went, did drama club, did theater, improv whenever it came up, went and got to Georgia Perimeter College, which I don't think exists anymore. It's a two-year college that was in Gwynette, it's a Georgia Gwynette College now. And I did more theater there. Not a ton of improv, but like whenever it came up, I would jump up and do I would do improv whenever I could. If it came up in the school or anything like that, we would have these uh open mics that I would go to. Some of like I would go to a poetry open mic, and then I would improvise the poem. Wow. That I would like write it at the start of the open mic and like use that to like so in from that moment in 2001, like improv was ingrained in my artistic integrity throughout the yeah.

Joel 15:46

Oh, that's really cool. You'd improv so wait, so you'd improvise the poem on the spot in front of the audience, or what did you say about you?

Maged 15:54

I would go to the open mic, and then after I signed up for the open mic, I would start writing my poem.

Joel 16:01

Okay.

Maged 16:01

Uh based on whatever I felt like writing. So it would be wow. That's ballsy. Yeah, but it also fun. It doesn't matter. I think that's like my if I had to like write an improv book, it would be like none of none of this matters. Nothing matters.

"Nothing Matters" & Everything You Need Is in Level One

Joel 16:20

Uh I'd I'd read that. Yeah. The name of the improv book is nothing matters. Nothing matters. That's fantastic. Because I do think um I think improvisers, maybe actors too, put so much weight into this thing and forget that nothing matters. Like to let it go and just remember to have fun and be connected.

Maged 16:44

I yeah, I I think we learn everything we need to know about improv in a level 101 improv class. And then everything on top of that's just seasoning. Mm-hmm.

Joel 16:58

Yeah. Um, I I there's a lot of truth in that because level one, if I'm thinking about the Das Grass curriculum, that's the only one I'm most familiar with. The level one is where you get the first familiarization with listening, platform, yes and you get the all the basic concepts and every and everything else. Yeah, you're right, just like extra new what new games to use those skills. It's just like new game.

Maged 17:26

Yeah, but if you if you work on those skills, then you can apply them to any game. Back to 2001 when I first started doing improv, the went on stage, had uh no understanding of how the games work. The if if somebody says in this next scene we're going to be doing this, then I can learn that as the audience learns it, and then just do that thing. As long as I'm bringing my authentic, confident, joyful self to the scene, right? Like if I'm if I'm having fun and I'm doing that thing that they're doing. I think there's a feeling of wanting to get it right, yeah. Uh, that is detrimental to how a lot of us do improv. I think so too.

Celebrating Failure & How Improv Changes Lives

Joel 18:14

I think so too. And I think it carries through, it carries through multiple levels. I see that feeling. It's probably one of the hardest things to shake, I think, for just human beings in general. I feel like the world just constantly trying to tell us how to do things right. Yeah.

Maged 18:30

The you you've taught beginner improv class, like whenever you tell people we're celebrating failure, the mind's blown. Yeah. They're like, I've never felt this in my life. Yeah. Yeah. We're like, we're encouraging mistakes. I want to teach my spouse this. Then you get into like why they're at an why they have a sad home, why they have a sad life.

Joel 18:52

Yeah.

Maged 18:53

But it's true. Like, everyone's sad. Everyone's like the that connection is so lacking in everything.

Joel 19:00

Yeah, because I feel like that mentality, that fear of making mistakes in life, sh uh affects how everyone shows up in life. Yeah. In off in just like interactions with other human beings, scared to say the wrong thing, scared to be your authentic self. Like all that stuff has ripple effects, that kind of mindset. And which is why improv is so essential. Like, not only is improv cool for like having fun and playing these games, and but like, man, the the type of changes that it can affect someone's actual life is will always be like so influential to me and mind-blowing. And you see that, right? Like, you see that as a teacher.

Maged 19:39

The you go in, you see people in eight weeks become completely different, become confident, you know. The I years ago, I went to uh two years in a row, I was the improv teacher for the Georgia Junior Thespian Conference, so middle school kids and drama clubs, uh, and I taught the improv class, and uh it was great, it was super fine. Like the but the second year that I went, I had somebody in my class, like a young girl that came up after the class was over, everyone was saying thank you, and she said, I took your class last year, and I was able to become more confident, and I actually got a role in the school play. Like she, and I was just like tears rolling down. I was like, Thank you. Like, I just couldn't keep like it was just like the sweetest. The it was I saw it happen, like the from one year to the and it's like the you know, that was crazy because it was like six one-hour sessions with like 30 kids at a time. So I didn't remember her, like the there's you know, there's uh over a hundred kids that I saw the like yeah, nearly 200 kids over the however many hours I was there, and the but she just like wanted to, and she like was holding on to that. She was like, I'm gonna I can't wait to go back. I want to tell like the what she'd become confident and that's so sweet. We do that, we do that for adults, for kids, for and it's that's insane. Like, everyone should be doing improv.

Joel 21:19

Yeah, everyone should be doing a little bit of improv. Everyone should be doing improv. 100%. Um yeah, I mean it's it people think that imp improv doesn't affect them, and I'm like, it affects we what the way you interact with someone at the supermarket, a stranger, in the library, in a coffee shop, everywhere you go, every conversation you literally have, you need you're improvising. Yeah, you can't respond unless you get the next line from the other person. Right from every conversation is improvised.

Maged 21:54

Now question for you as a seasoned improviser, do you feel that that affects? Affects your everyday life more so. Like, do you ever wish that you were just dumber? No. I'll give you an example. I this morning I had a doctor's appointment. Um, and I was I'm tired. Like uh, I was telling you before we started recording, I did this. Uh I was a pirate for five hours yesterday night, and um I was really tired from my doctor. I just did like a bad job scheduling how my couple of days was gonna go. So I had to wake up early, get to the doctor's appointment, and it's like I see them like pretty often. I know the people in the doctor's office, and I know the people there, they're all very nice. I'm usually pretty bubbly and nice, and like the but tonight or this morning, I was tired. So I just did like the bare minimum human thing. I was like, Yep, I'll schedule my next appointment here and here, but then I walked out after and I was like, I'll let him down. That wasn't the best performance of Maggot that I could have given them. Like, do you ever at the doctor's office? Yeah, because it's the I feel like there's a responsibility. We as improvisers we get to affect people, how they feel and how they interact. And normally it's like claps and cheers and or teaching in class or something like that. But in everyday life, do you feel that responsibility?

Joel 23:27

Uh, I don't feel it as a oh move, man. I don't feel it as a responsibility.

Maged 23:33

Are you going to start now?

Joel 23:34

No, I don't think so. Like, um I I do think it affects how I move around the world. Like, for example, I think about a conversation that I strike up with a stranger that's on the line at Publix waiting for a sandwich. Right. Um, that happened a few weeks ago. Or yesterday I returned my old router to Xfinity and the banter with the the rep. Yeah. I loved his hair and I commented on his hair, and then we talked about hair and little things like that. And I think about if I didn't have improv, I don't know if I would strike up those conversations or have those same interactions. But I don't feel a responsibility to all the time. I will say that it almost like uh improv check-ins. Yeah. I if I'm moving around at a four and a five on my day-to-day, I'll be more likely to have those positive interactions and be playful. But if I'm moving around as like a one or a two, I'm not gonna hold it against myself if I'm not my best self at the doctor's. So then I'm I'll just let that go.

Maged 24:39

Um that's so it's just my anxiety then. I think it's your anxiety.

Joel 24:42

It's just my anxiety. Cool, cool, cool. Yeah, you're taking it upon yourself to cheer everybody up that you come in contact with. Isn't that our job? Isn't that what we're supposed to be doing as humans? Well, ooh, okay. Wait, am I wrong? Actually, I don't think you're wrong. We all, I mean, just the thought on paper, ish it if it was everyone's responsibility to cheer each other up, we'd live in a beautiful place. Yeah.

Maged 25:11

We just know how, we just know better than most everyone else as improvisers how to do that.

Joel 25:17

Yeah. And I think we do so more than most. So I think that's a that's a gift in and of itself. Wow. Powerful stuff, powerful stuff. Oh, okay. Okay, so okay, you're you're in college doing drama, not much improv.

The Detour: the Air Force & the GI Bill

Maged 25:36

Yeah, the well, when you go from high school to college, they stop calling it drama and they call it theater.

Joel 25:42

Okay. Oh, that's yeah, it's true, you know, that's true. I had drama for whatever reason. I might it was drama.

Maged 25:47

I actually don't know why. Like the it's drama club in high school, and then from college and on, it's maybe they think it sounds more fun for kids, like drama club instead of theater.

Joel 25:58

I don't know. Yeah, I have no idea.

Maged 26:01

In any case, uh so I go to college, I do some theater, uh, and I go and get my two-year degree from Georgia Perimeter College, um, move in with my girlfriend at the time, uh, and then kind of like take a break from doing artistic stuff, just work full-time, play video games, like uh fall into a depression uh because I don't have art in my life that is feeding that part of me. And um somewhere along the line there, I make the decision to join the Air Force, uh, which is for me the I'll actually I'll tell you exactly what happened. This isn't an improv story, but I can tell that I can tell you the exact moment that I decided I needed to change to join the Air Force. I was working at a computer store uh as a front-end supervisor, meaning I was like a cashier and like I moved up to like the lowest level of management possible at a store at a retail computer store. Um, and I applied for a job there that would have paid more money that was like in the warehouse as like a warehouse manager. And I wanted to kind of do that, get away from customers. I like numbers, like boxes make sense to me, like I know how to work this. Uh, I just wanted the less chaos in that area. I interviewed for the job with the operations manager, uh, and he said he was gonna pass on me for the job because he could see me running my own store one day. Um, like as a general manager. Like he wanted me to stay in the front end. He was like being very nice, like this is it was a good thing. I had applied for a promotion. He was like, this in the long term will give you a bigger promotion over time, we'll keep you here, we'll do that. And I was like, in that instant, I do not want to be working at a computer store for the rest. I was looking this man in the eyes who had been with the company for like 20 or 30 years, and I was like looking at myself in a magic mirror that showed me what I would look like in the future. And I was like, you know what? I need a change. And I like went the following week to go to talk to a recruiter to like go join the Air Force. Um, so I get married, I go to the Air Force, I get this is all still like no little to no improv. Uh, I get sick uh with I get diagnosed while I'm in basic training with type one diabetes, get a medical discharge, get out of the Air Force, get my full GI bill, which is awesome. Reason I joined the Air Force in the first place was for like new stuff, a little bit of financial stability. Go to school for theater. So like I'm back. Wow. So that's the that's the path from like 2001 from when I started to 2010. What a detour I started at Kennesaw State University.

Joel 29:27

That's insane. Yeah. To be in the Air Force, medically discharged, get the full GI bill, and then be able to use that for theater. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah. What do you think was some of the biggest takeaways studying theater that you bring into your improv?

What Studying Theater Taught me

Maged 29:43

The I think the biggest takeaways are like character objectives. The like what my character wants and how do they go about getting those things that they want? Uh, I think people might say this, uh you might agree or disagree, but like my characters tend to be even as silly as they are, there's always like a bit of like there's a lot of truth and groundedness in the way that I approach my characters. And all that is is like basic acting technique. My characters want something sometimes, and I teach this in class too. Sometimes it can be as simple as I want this other character to like me. Very simple want, very achievable want. The I went to school for many years to learn how to like succinctly go get those wants. Then after that, the the way you get those wants is where the comedy happens. Those are your tactics. Like, I'm gonna go after this by um, oh, I can uh I can seduce you to get you to like me, or I can threaten you to get you to like me, or I can uh oh, I can um I can pet you to get you to like whatever I do, whatever the things that I do, my want doesn't change. Sometimes I think students like misuse that they're like, I want this thing. That's it. That's all now. I have an objective and I want it and I should get it. And I'm gonna say that I want it, but they don't get into the deeper how do we get those things that we want.

Why Improvisers Are Actors

Joel 31:21

Oh, I love that. I feel like that's that's useful for me, even in teaching. This is objectives and tactics. Are those the terms? Yep, objectives and tactics. Objectives you can also call wants. Oh, that's great. So, okay, so you still use that in your improv. Yeah, characters you're making. Okay, cool. Um, you mentioned before um acting, improvisers are actors, actors are improvisers. Um, and I wrote that down. I I wanted to like elaborate on that more about acting. I I don't you're right that I think most improvisers don't consider themselves actors, but why do you think they should be considered actors?

Maged 32:00

Because you're playing characters, you're playing characters that want things from each other, and you're even if your salt and pepper shaker is on the table at a TGI Friday, and like the pepper shaker is mad because salt's getting all the physical affection from the from the customers, which that that's a great scene. Yeah, that's great. It's that's a good one.

Joel 32:25

The you they writing that down to call back to to steal to steal and copy.

Maged 32:33

Just add music and it's Joel's version. Um but it's like the even if you're that, uh, that's a good funny premise. If you don't have a way to demonstrate why we care about these characters, then you're gonna lose the audience, in my opinion, I think. Like the in my professional opinion, yeah. Just to rate like the because I think it's more than an opinion. It's like if you don't have your connection there, the connection between the characters and the actors. I think like one of the most challenging things that sets improv apart from traditional uh theater is that you're not just the actor. I think you're there's like a Venn diagram of actor, director, and writer. You have to block all of your own scenes, you have to show, you have to move uh where you're going. But as the actor, you have to create those motivations of why you're moving there. And as a writer, you have to come up with the words and the stage directions that you're saying. So I think there are some improvisers that are like really strong writers and really strong directors, but they don't bring the actor to that, like sort of bring the character to life, and they get mad that they're not getting the reaction that they feel they so duly deserve. And then you get some improvisers that are awful writers, that are awful directors, but they're pretty good actors because they have their characters have a point of view and they're connected with their scene partner, and you can tell that it's spontaneous, and they're getting uproarious laughter, and my writer, director, my writers are like, Well, that wasn't that funny, and it's like they're right, it really wasn't that well crafted, but because their character felt real, the audience responds to it.

Joel 34:36

What do you think those writers, those writer type players, what do you think they need? What's the missing puzzle piece?

Maged 34:46

Fully connecting with your scene partner for one. I everything you need, again, level one stuff, right? Everything you need is in your scene partner. Look your scene partner in the eyes, connect with them, react to the things that they're doing, uh honestly and with gusto.

Joel 35:01

Yeah.

Maged 35:02

Um, and then the I I throw this around in class all the time. Just try objectives and tactics. Just like very simply say, I want this character to like me. You can come in preloaded into a scene just saying, like, whatever this, whoever this character is, I want them to like me. Like the it doesn't matter if me and you are in a scene together, it doesn't matter who you're gonna be. Like, what what what premise would you bring on into a scene? Like, how would you enter a scene?

Joel 35:34

Uh probably with a physicality and a pantomiming thing. But give me a premise, like the who are you? Let's see. Um, a flower pot. Flower and a flower pot.

Maged 35:44

You're you're a flower and a flower pot. I'm a gardener. I want you to like me. Now I'm gonna try to get you to like me. The I'm gonna try to water you. I'm gonna try to give you some food. I'm gonna tell you uh how pretty you are, I'm gonna tell you that you're the most beautiful flower, even though you're the only flower in the garden, you're the best flower. And then what I'm gonna do is as an actor, is I'm gonna check in with you and see how close I am to getting the thing that I want. And if we're doing that with each other, now you as a flower pot, what might you want? Um, more sunlight, more sunlight that has nothing to do with me, right? Like the you want to get away from me to a degree, right? Yeah. Like, do you see how that scene kind of forms itself out

The Flower Pot: Building a Scene From Wants

Maged 36:37

of that?

Joel 36:37

Just just you're right, just from describing our wants, already the scene kind of takes more shape. Yeah.

Maged 36:45

The like you and I can see how that scene, like the I would give you a little bit of a note, and I didn't say this, so like for the the want always has to be something only your scene partner can give you.

Joel 36:56

Oh, well, Mary, I like that. Yeah, a want can only be something that your scene partner can give you.

Maged 37:01

Because as a flower in an improv scene where you can get up and walk away, right? The magic flowers exist in improv scenes. If the only thing you want is sunlight, you can stand up, exit stage left, and go find sunlight.

The Divorce Scene

Joel 37:16

Oh, oh, but what if what if the want was I want you to move me to sunlight?

Maged 37:21

That's that's it.

Joel 37:22

Okay.

Maged 37:23

Because now you want something from me.

Joel 37:25

Because I can't, because maybe I can't move. I can't get up.

Maged 37:28

Yeah, but it's gotta be something that only your soon partner. The example that I use in classes all the time is the idea of like the I want a divorce, right? How many times have you seen that in an improv scene? Two men. Here we go. Two men instant conflict. This is the biggest conflict I can think of. Um, which, first of all, like, come on. The uh let me watch some people that want to stay together. Like, that's a scene I want to see. Yeah. Uh, but in any case, the I want a divorce. The um, how do you get that in a scene? Joel, I divorce you. Exit stage, right? That's a divorce.

Joel 38:04

That's a divorce. I've seen that happen, yeah.

Maged 38:08

The scene changes if your character wants permission to get a divorce. Because that means our characters have a long history, and I need you to let go before I can feel comfortable leaving. Or I need you to promise that you're gonna take care of yourself after I leave. Yeah. Now there's a scene. Now I need permission for a divorce. Like, because permission is something that only you can give me.

Joel 38:42

Wow. I love that. Yeah, it's a it's immediately more impactful and more interesting of a scene than just the classic, I want a divorce and then a walk-off, and then an awkward pause.

Maged 38:56

So the rules on objectives, only your scene partner can give it to you. Um, and you use your tactics to get those things. Yeah, or are the how the how you're how you're gonna achieve it. And if you want to go deeper, let's go, let's just make this an acting class podcast. Let's do it. Uh your tactics, you can ask yourself. If I was writing out this, my objectives and tactics in a script, I would go through all of this and work it out. But an improv, you have to like come up with it pretty quick. Your tactics would have to be you can ask yourself to what end. So what to like when I do something to you, what do I want to happen? And that'll help you play expectations over that it'll it'll improve your reactions to things that are happening. Uh, an example is I was working on a Shakespeare show one time, and what I wanted, and that's like you can be as imaginative as possible, but I was delivering a line, and what I want, what I wanted my character to want was for the other character's head to explode. And with my words, I wanted to say them, and I wanted their head to explode into smithereens. And then when that didn't happen, my character was disappointed. So, like, that's the thing that I wanted. I wanted his head that to what end did I want his head to explode? To a million smithereens. I wanted the I wanted to see brains on the wall. Uh, and then when I say like tell people to react, that's how you

Objectives, Tactics & Expectations

Maged 40:41

play an expectation. Like, like going back to our permission to uh divorce, I may say, I want permission to uh get a divorce. And what I want for you to say is, okay, I'll sign the paperwork. And I yell at you threatening you and saying, you better sign this, or I'm gonna make you regret it. There it is. There's my objective, there's my tactic. Uh and then my to what end? My expectation. There's an objective, the tactic, the expectation. The expectation is you're gonna sign this piece of paper. Then you start crying. Is that what I expect it to happen? So I still need, I still want you to sign the paper. So now my tactics are gonna shift. No, no, no, no, no. Consoling. Hey, hey, it's okay, it's okay, it's okay, it's okay. This we're just we're not fighting, we're not fighting. Look, we're all happy. Like, whatever it is, you're balling your eye. Like, you know, that gives you sort of this dynamism in a scene. So there it is. Objectives, tactics, expectations.

Joel 41:57

Oh, that's great. I actually um uh I'm leaving for Chicago on Friday and for the I.O. intensive, and I'm gonna bring with me actually a few acting books that I picked up because I want to, I'm trying to add a few acting exercises and tools into my musical improv curriculum. Yeah. Because what I'm finding that's missing when we get to start learning about narrative is the acting components, the emotion components, finding wants, finding objectives. It's it is it's tough. It's tough.

Maged 42:34

And it's so hard to say be happy, right? Like the be sad. Like the it's tough to do that because there's the it's not active.

Joel 42:43

Yeah. Would you would you recommend an improviser who wants to get better improv improv take an acting class?

Maged 42:51

Yeah. Yeah, just take up like a straight up acting class. Like I've we've like I've taught before like an acting for improvisers class where it's like acting techniques but for improv. But I think you could even benefit more so like just taking an acting class. Like the there's a lot of there's three main American acting teachers, uh Lee Strasberg, Stella Adler, and um Meisner, right? The uh a lot of people relate Meisner more so to improv, in that Meisner technique is a lot about reacting to the thing that's happening in the moment. I've heard the same, yeah. Um I think that uh Stella Adler class would be very impactful in that a lot of what Stella Adler teaches has to deal with imagination and tapping into the full power that your imagination can bring into a scene. Um, and even uh like a Strasbourg class. Usually that those classes and techniques focus on emotional truth. But it they all three of them stem from like Stanislavsky technique, which is what I'm talking about. Objectives, tactics.

Joel 44:18

Yeah. Yeah, those are some of the books actually that I have. I don't have any Strasbourg, I have some Adler and Meisner and Sets.

Maged 44:26

You can also read uh like Uda Hagen books. She's she was a student of Stella Adler that like uh expands more on again, like the how to tap into your imagination to build truthful characters. And a little a lot of like the not underestimating your characters. The because I think there's like hang-ups that we bring to the table, improvisers and actors that are like, oh, my character wouldn't do this, and those are usually analytical things that are blocks to fully exploring what a character would and would not do.

Joel 45:02

Oh man, that's so great. I feel like I love this. I love diving into the acting portion of this because I feel like the community is missing that in a in a class in a curriculum. So you're you're in college, you're you're out of the air, or what happens after after when you get

Kennesaw State, Storytelling & Living Life Before College

Joel 45:18

out of the Air Force?

Maged 45:18

I go to Kennesaw State University in 2010. So that's my 2001 to 2010. Um, I get involved with theater there. I joined, and interestingly enough, the I joined the improv team, uh, but then I also joined the storytelling group. And I think if I look back in college, I'm probably more known for being like a storyteller than an improviser. Like that's the group that I kind of fell in with and was like more of what my identity was. Uh, but I still did like improv and things like that, and theater and plays, and um did it was interesting. I would highly recommend to anyone out there that if you're uh go live your life for a little bit before you do college, uh, because you just get to be. It's like a cheat code. I was so good at going to school, like I did my homework on time, like like bare so good. It was like bare minimum. Like I was meeting bare minimums. I was able to like read my readings, do my homework, and like it wasn't that hard. Uh, and I like looked like an A plus student. Um, the uh like it was, but I I was able to fully throw myself into like learn from like some great actors, uh, and teachers and directors. I had all sorts of class, like I could I was voracious, a voracious learner. Like I just wanted to learn everything about everything. Uh took classes in performance art, directing, storytelling, personal storytelling versus fables and folk tales and fairy tales storytelling. Like, um, we just I remember my like it was my first week there, the head of the storytelling, who which was also his first semester there, the he was leading the storytelling organization. He stopped by the like student lounge and he was like, We're doing this storytelling thing. Do you want to audition? And I was like, What is it? And he was like, I don't know yet. And I was like, You son of a bitch, I'm in. Uh and it like the it just was great. I uh auditioned for the improv team. Yes, yes, Kennesaw Improv Society, stupid, and this again, uh back to Zachary Bromberg. He wasn't leading the organization at the time, but he was like he was in already pretty much, and like he knew all the people that were like in. And I was like the the hot shot whiz kid, like the just like right off the block

The Hotshot Whiz Kid

Maged 47:53

coming in.

Joel 47:53

Like um, I think the way he would explain this is I love how you hotshot whiz kid is such a hysterical description. I think that's who I am. What oh yeah, you totally you give off hotshot whiz kid.

Maged 48:11

Why okay? Why you're saying it like in a monotone voice, like you don't believe what you're saying.

Joel 48:17

I just I just think that's a really interesting way to describe yourself.

Maged 48:21

I've never heard you be sarcastic and like why is this happening now?

Joel 48:24

I just thought it was funny. Why hotshot whiz kid just is such a funny descriptor.

Maged 48:29

Anyway, so I come in as this hot shot whiz kid uh and he hated me. Like hated me, hated my comedy, hated my offers.

Joel 48:40

Wait, how do you know he hated hated it?

Maged 48:42

He has told me on several occasions, like even then, he was like, This is bad, and you're bad for having done this. Uh like it was the because I I just the I think I try to have a pretty good connection with the audience. Uh, and if something makes people laugh, I'm probably gonna keep digging at following that, yeah. So I made a dick joke. And singular and well, that's where it started.

Joel 49:10

Okay.

Maged 49:11

That was just that was just the tip of the iceberg.

Joel 49:16

Here we go.

Maged 49:16

Of the iceberg.

Joel 49:18

Great, great.

Maged 49:19

Love it. And people laughed. So I kept going. I just gave them more and more. The people were wanting it. Yeah, yeah. And I had plenty to give. There you go. So it was just like we kept like, I just maybe some would say I went overboard. Zach would say I went overboard, but I made it in the kiss, so like oh plenty plenty of people found it to be funny.

The Case for the Dick Joke

Joel 49:45

Yeah. Uh dick jokes, are you this? It's so interesting because I think uh dick jokes are um, I feel like frowned upon or like called blue, going blue. Yeah, but you think there's a place for dick jokes? Yeah. Yeah.

Maged 50:05

I know you're gonna say that's why I wanted to ask that. There's a hundred place percent of place for dick jokes, and that place is in the butt. Let me explain. Okay. The you have to have it has to contrast with what's already going on. So you have to earn the audience. So, like, we're doing a scene about our lovely divorce, right? Let's go back to this scene that we've set up. Our divorce, I want permission for you to get a divorce. You want something, you want to stay together. We're arguing, you've crying, I'm consoling you. What I mean by in the butt is like, however, we're gonna add this dick joke. So that means the context has to come first, but here's a dick joke. Because, like, you can't ever just come out with a dick joke because yeah, can't be the mean thing, right? Right. So the dick joke goes in the butt.

Joel 51:06

Oh, it goes in the butt.

Maged 51:09

That was a long way around to make a really stupid dick joke.

Joel 51:13

That was a fantastic that was a fantastic detour and needed. Okay, cool. I'm glad you said that because um I agree. I've seen scenes toe the line with uh like provocative or dirty jokes, but be but it it keeps it silly and fun and and doesn't get to that that ickiness feeling that yeah you experience so often in like a dick joke or like a blue scene.

Maged 51:41

And context matters too, right? Like there's a million ways to like do dirty jokes, right? The there's the literal aspect of it, right? Like the the writing part of it, if the joke is a good turn of phrase or there's a good pun in there, or double entendre, like truthful double entendre, like the like uh oh, this rod is thick, and you're like you're fixing a boat. Like the that's a double. I'm talking about the rod, but I'm talking about it like it's a pain, like that's a double entendre. Just saying, like, my dick's huge, like that's not a double. Sometimes people think that's a double entendre, but that's not a double entendre. That's just saying the thing, a dirty thing, like that a blue that's just going blue. Um, so like you have I think there needs to be some sort of layer there, like double entendre, turn a phrase a pun, something that helps you.

Joel 52:37

Like, so it's layered in there amidst a complete scene.

Maged 52:40

And you gotta check in with the audience. Like, sometimes audiences I've done a show before at like much drunker theaters than some of the theaters that are in Atlanta, like tourist spots that like where people are hammered. Uh, and it's like I feel like I was hosting a show one time that it was an almost constant barrage of people wanting saying that they wanted to have sex with me right then and there. Like the just like that was kind of the vibe. Uh and tempering that was we we did the opposite, right? We were like, we're we're not like we're we're gonna like kind of stay away from this and dropping in, drop it in sparingly to like because that's really what they felt like they wanted.

Joel 53:29

I and just for listeners, go uh when we referencing blue and going blue, I don't know where the origin of this is, but for listeners, going blue in a scene is means like going full dirty or like full raunchy or something. Yeah. More or less. I think like I don't I don't know.

Maged 53:46

I don't know where it comes from. Yeah, it's something I'll Google in. I think it's something with like rating, like the like NC17 rated R ratings and stuff like that. Like, but I don't know.

Joel 53:55

Yeah. It's just something that I've heard in improv, you know, it's a just a phrase that it's just for so you know what we're talking about when we say going blue. Um, how did you okay? So from college, anything else in college that you want to visit your improv experience before we get to how you got to dad's garage?

Sales, Depression & the Gift That Led to Dad's Garage

Maged 54:11

The I mean, life-wise, I was married at the time, my daughter's born, uh, and I'm going to school. Yeah. Doing more plays, get better at theater. And I think the one of the cool things about doing like that break in between is I came back to the arts with some life experience that helped inform a lot of what I was doing.

Joel 54:36

Yeah. I hear that often. Life experiences and help inform your improv.

Maged 54:40

Yeah. Yeah. But then college is over. College is over. I move on. And moving on to sales. Uh, couldn't find a job in the arts. I needed money, started selling things. So this is like the second go-around of I kind of put the arts to rest. And I'm like, okay, here I am trying to do this thing. I get into like sales pretty much full-time. Uh, my wife is sees the depression and all of that kind of sinking in because there's no artistic fulfillment. And she, on for our anniversary in 2015, gifts me uh improv classes at dad's garage. And I take improv classes for about a year, and then by the next year, I become a newly inducted rookie at dad's, where I'm like in the scene. So, like from like 20 kind of the I graduate from college, I'm out of the arts, I start taking classes at dad's, and then I when I was taking classes, dad's was not it was not in its home right now that it's at uh in the old fourth ward. It was in between Elizabeth Street, which is old Dad's, which was demolished in 2013, and the new place opened in 2016. So I was taking classes with Dad's Garage and I had my graduation show at seven stages. Uh, and then a month after that, dad's moved into the new building, and they reinstituted the rookies because now they had their own building with

Becoming a Rookie at Dad's Garage

Maged 56:34

uh like two stages that they were doing full programming for. So, like the a lot of times people ask me, like, how do you get into dad's garage? And like, my thing was just be lucky, be around when they happen to be needing, they move into a new building and happen to need a whole lot more improvisers. Yeah. Um, so that's how that happened. Like, I joined Dad's Garage and then I'm in 2016. I become a rookie, uh, mirror event thing happens to my first time doing improv. My first show as a rookie at Dad's Garage is uh Extreme Elimination Improv Challenge, which is an elimination show that at the end there's one single winner. And as a rookie, it was like little did we know how unimportant it was to actually win the show. But to us, it felt like it was like some sort of like uh rite of passage that like you gotta win, you gotta be capable of winning the show. Like it mattered at all. My very first Extreme Elimination Improv Challenge, I won. So, like the again, my first time on stage, I win. Like just like when I was at when I first started doing improv back in 2001. The and it was actually the I remember that show because uh I know it came down to me and Tommy Futch, who legend uh the like has through osmosis taught more people improv than I think maybe anyone in the world. Uh like he has produced more teachers, uh the so it is it was me and him in the finals, and he for sure threw it just because he knew it was like gonna be important for me as the new guy.

Joel 58:34

Wow. Is that like a hunch you have that he did that? Yeah, yeah.

Maged 58:42

Yeah.

Joel 58:42

Wow. So you won that. Did you think did you feel it? Um did it was it meaningful to you? Also, did you also have that belief that like it mattered to win that? No.

Maged 58:52

Yeah, I I like knew I was just the at that point, and again, it's it's the idea of like the life experience and like where we're coming from. I had the wherewithal to like look at I know I know casting and ensembles and like making it into shows is a point of major contention amongst everyone in the improv community everywhere all around the world. Right. Uh I don't super engage with that. And you've no, you know me, you know me like not to like not just not engage with it, kind of stand against any sort of hierarchy that exists both inside and outside the improv world. Yeah. Uh I like chaos. Uh but it is one of those things where I truly believe that it in the be good and happy where you're at. The and it I come from a place of privilege in that wherever I go, people

Hierarchy, Validation & Being Happy Where You're At

Maged 1:00:00

validate me through to a degree, and like I get like those nods, and I know there's people out there that feel like they don't, but like the I remember being in the general company and talking with some and for anyone who doesn't know, probably everyone that is listening to this, but like there's like uh structured tiers at dad's garage with like ensemble, general company, rookies, things like that over there. At this time, yeah. At this time, right now there's still a structured tier of like ensemble, general company, conservatory memory. There's like there's always like structured dynamics, and it's I think like the truth of it is like most of these dynamics point to validation more than anything else, and I feel like that's a really important part. But I remember being in the general company talking with some people that uh were in the ensemble, and um just candidly like telling them the this was kind of like hanging out, drinks like on the patio after shows and stuff. Like, I didn't care about getting into the ensemble or like moving up or going here or doing there because it really doesn't it at for me, it didn't affect my stage time. Like I was at the time that I was saying this to like another member at DAZ, I was like, the what are they gonna do? Cast me in more shows than I already am. Like my schedule couldn't even and like that's the that's my area of privilege. Like I was just getting cast in shows a hundred percent of the time. Like, because I would show up and like people would be like, Hey, it's Megan, you wanna jump in? I'd be like, You son of a bitch, I'm in. Like, I'd always like jump in and like get the stage time that uh people would crave, and like the but I never looked ahead to try to move anywhere, but I always try to look in the moment and make this show better, like this scene better, this scene more fun and interesting.

Joel 1:02:05

Nice. So after taking okay, so you got the the gift card for classes. Did did those that first year of taking classes was it influential at all? Did you feel like you learned it added stuff to your improv game with the teachers that you were with?

Maged 1:02:19

Yeah, absolutely. And I only had one teacher throughout the class. Like normally teachers rotate out, and I was in like it was a weird. I took level two, three, and four. I took classes before dads had a level five and on.

Joel 1:02:33

Okay.

Maged 1:02:34

And uh I just had one teacher throughout, and it was with a group that had been together since level one, and I got kind of like absorbed into that group. And when we did our grad show, like it was killer. Like the it was just one of those that like we had been performing together for you know uh what 30 something weeks, yeah, like 32 weeks or whatever, like half a year to a uh or more, and like we the show killed, like we had a super fun, awesome time. The um the I gotta point out, like, the there was a lighting designer who sadly passed away a number of years ago at dad's name was uh Josh, and he I had classes with him going out, and he was interesting, it was interesting because he was in the classes, but he was doing it just so he could be a better lighting designer for dads, and like and obviously he was a very like in the moment person, and like we went through the classes together, and I remember I think most people that end up on stage at dads probably remember their grad show at some point, but I remember we had our on our level four grad show, we had like a one-voice interview that just we knocked it out of the park, and I was like, that's probably what moved me into like being looked at to be I actually still don't know exactly why or who said, Oh cool, Maggot should be in dad's garage. Like I have no idea how all of that went short. Sure, yeah, the the black box of decision making. Yeah, yeah. Which like I even now I'm inside of that to a degree, and like I still don't know how that I have no idea. Like I'm so anti-authority that I'm like willfully ignorant of like how things are getting done. Yeah, so you went from rookies and then to general a company and then voted into ensemble, all that you know, was there anything in that process or like yeah, I I uh I think I set myself apart for sh or I hope that I did uh getting cast in like the scripted shows. I remember 2016 I get invited to I remember because like in 2016 I get in as a rookie in March, then uh the there was a fall scripted show that I couldn't do, and it was a sketch comedy political show in 2016, um which didn't it it the show was great, but it was just like if we could turn back time, I think we uh everyone would have felt very differently about everything about that show.

Invasion Christmas Carol

Joel 1:05:29

Um it didn't age well if you were to do it.

Maged 1:05:32

Is that the it's just no, it's like I think the there there probably would have been like a different tone in the show because like everyone in 2016, pre November, yeah, there was an understanding that it was gonna go one way and it just didn't. The right, the like turning back time and like looking at myself back then, it was just like the no way, no way this is gonna happen. Uh that's how everybody was. Um, but I turned down that show and I remember. I was like, I can't make this show. Uh, but keep me in mind for any future opportunity. Like the just doing like the actor thing and like not realizing that like at dad's it was kind of different. Like I didn't have to do that. Like they were just like, yeah, whatever. And like no one said anything about it again. And I was like, oh fuck, they're gonna they're gonna kick me out. I turned down this thing. The I just I'm the new guy, they're gonna get rid of me. Everyone's gonna talk like the like and that of course, like does it like a week later? I get like a call from the person that's directing the other show that year, and they're like, Hey, do you want to be in this show? And I was like, Yeah, like it was so it I had a week of like stressing out that I was gonna get kicked out of dad's garage, but then I get cast in Invasion Christmas Carol at the end of that year, my first year of being a rookie. By the time we get to November, I'm in the general company, I'm in Invasion Christmas Carol, knock it out of the park, of course. Uh and then all that drama club. All that drama club, like honestly, yeah. The I remember a lot of I remember a lot of that first run of Invasion Christmas Carol, like, just very fondly. It was like a very great show. Uh Megan Leahy was our Scrooge that year, just uh like my favorite Scrooge of all time. She was just amazing, like uh lots of fun. There's like video footage of me on stage breaking so hard. Like, but let me set the scene. Um, in case anyone doesn't know, Invasion Christmas Carol is a show that Asgarage does every year. It's uh traditional Christmas carol, uh, full show, actors set, lights, costumes, except every night uh somebody invades uh that both the character and the actor are is somebody that the cast has no idea who it is until they set foot on stage. And I was playing Bob Cratchit, which is an amazing role because it's just me and Scrooge on stage when the invader enters. And it was on the Christmas Eve show, the Jurassic Park music started playing, and I start like running through the Rolodex in my head of like, oh, who could it be? Maybe it's Ian Malcolm. Oh, it could be like the a whole group of, and as I'm like running through who it could possibly be, like what actor, because the music's playing for a while. Um, and this was back in 2016, but like the it was at the beginning of the popularity of the inflatable dinosaur suit, like the right at the start of that. Okay, so they're not they weren't as prevalent as they are now, and Mark Kendall comes flying on stage as one of these dinosaurs, and he's moving so fast that like the head is like tilting from side to side, and like it just it brought me so much joy. Like, I was stomach hurting, abs flexing, had to cover my face with my hat, laughing so hard that I remember looking up to Megan as Scrooge, and she was looking back at me, saying, like, she was looking to me to engage in the scene, and I saw the instant, and I couldn't differentiate this from her or her character, but sincere disappointment that I was she so broke, like yeah, just I couldn't bring anything to the scene. I couldn't talk, like, I couldn't get I like a word. The luckily that scene is completely improvised, and it was still like I was wiping tears away as I was after he left, and I was still working through trying to beg for Christmas Day off the following day.

Joel 1:10:08

Wow, that's hysterical. That T-Rex costume. And Mark Kendall at that time was to ensemble. Yes, yeah, yeah. Wow, history, what a great show. Um yeah, if you haven't seen Christmas uh Invasion Christmas Carol, uh, please do. It is one of the best shows of the year at Dad's Garage. Um so you're ensemble, that was a big casting moment for you. Um were you ensemble yet at that point, or you know you're still rookie?

Maged 1:10:36

I was in the general company, so I jumped up from rookies to general company. I joined the ensemble in 2019, going so I'm around doing shows, teaching. I'm like the I'm pretty much around dads all the time. 2019, I joined the ensemble, I get voted in. Um, then in 2020, everything shuts down. We go online, come back. I was in the first show back that we did post-pandemic, where we were doing drive-in shows. Um, where people could, it was like we were set up with the plaza theater, was using our parking lot, and people could drive in, and we were on a stage with microphones casting into the radios in their cars. Wow. Which was really fun. The we were so from 2020 to 2021, no shows, everyone was at home, everything was locked down. Uh, we do our first show back, and here's the thing that I just fuck

Coming Back Post-Pandemic & Drive-In Shows

Maged 1:11:38

love about improvisers is just like there's some constants, like there's constants with improvisers. Our first show back post-pandemic. We haven't done this in more than a year, like a year and a half at this point. Uh, somebody calls out a performer. A performer calls out, like the I really envy anybody that actually runs an improv team. Like, the I don't envy them because like this is I I was kind of gobsmacked that it happened. Like, somebody called out of this show that, like, what what have we been doing? Like, after a year and a year and a half of like the obviously, like, it was a weird time, like the this was pre-vaccination, like people were like socially distant, yeah, like wearing like masked up, like the plastic masks and stuff like that, but like it was just like the last minute call out, even then, was amazing.

Joel 1:12:38

Wow. And okay, so you're you're back, and then you started teaching. What was that experience like starting to teach improv? The it was pretty great.

Learning to Teach From Tommy Futch

Maged 1:12:50

The I shadowed a teacher, I shadowed Tommy uh for a while, for like two or three sessions, and then I just started teaching. Wow. The great thing about uh Tommy, like every once in a while, would get like stuck, like his car would break down, or he would like be teaching another gig somewhere that ran long, or he's stuck in traffic. So I sometimes I just got to teach class because Tommy wasn't there, like the wow, so it was a great way to learn how to teach from the best, and like we would he was great because we would always not always, but he would always open the floor to me to give feedback, and even if it was like differing feedback from what he was like, he was just very open to like the marketplace of ideas and conversation and dialogue, and even to this day, that's how I conduct notes and things like that, is like we're talking about how that scene went. I'm never telling someone that they should or shouldn't do this.

The Art of Giving Notes: Conversation, Not Correction

Joel 1:13:56

I love that. I love that approach to um to giving notes and criticism. I mean, we've talked about that.

Maged 1:14:03

Like when you started teaching at DAZ, I was like, let's go over this, and like yeah, it's all there's a lineage there.

Joel 1:14:09

And I've been I've been in a class where a teacher is communicating a note like what they may not have liked in a scene, and then communicating what their idea or thing they would have done is, um, and it's way less helpful than just having a conversation about what's happening. Yeah.

Maged 1:14:32

And also, like yeah, the teacher's probably gonna be a better improviser than the student. That's kind of the whole point of the class. Like, why do you have to tell them that you can do it better than the right? Like, right. They they know that the everyone involved knows that. Everyone there knows that, like, yes, Joel, you're a you're bet you're teaching the class, you better be better than the students.

Joel 1:15:00

Yeah, yeah. It's it's a it's a pet peeve of mine because I I remember specifically a moment in a class where I'm hearing the teacher give someone else a note, and that note is the type of note that's like, here's here's what I could have done. Yeah, I you you could have I would have done this, I would have done that. I also like maybe I even would have done this, right? Like, those are all like more interesting things, and the way it's being communicated is like, and I'm sitting to myself listening to this teacher give this student a note, and I'm like, this person doesn't think like you do, right? They have a their own unique brain that processes differently and has a different sense of humor. How is this helpful to unlock this person's creativity and imagination? It's not, uh, and also uh I have been in classes with this person who also gives great notes, but also is a great teacher, but it was just this one specific moment and specific note that brought this up.

Note the Move, Not the Choice

Maged 1:15:57

Um I got uh this is like a note on notes that I got from Ed Morgan, great, wonderful, fantastic, amazing teacher. Yeah. Um, where he'll say he'll note the move and not the choice. So you can like note someone on a move. Like say the move is you're trying to um you're you're trying to like escalate this offer. You're trying to like dig deeper, you're trying to like the your objective was this and you tried this tactic. That's the move, but I'm not gonna note the choice. I don't care that you came in as a flower pot, but I'm gonna as a flower in a flower pot, but I'm gonna ask you what your move was, and maybe it's like your move was to come in and be a flower pot, but your physicality didn't sell us on that. So I'm not saying don't be a flower pot, but I'm saying you could have used more clarity in your environment work or something to add context so your scene partner could have known that you were a flower pot. That's uh think a way more productive note 100%. That said, I also have no problem telling people to like just shut shut up about certain things, like the like, and I'll tell people I'm not trying to inhibit your artistic expression, but we're

Holding the Line on Hurtful Content in Class

Maged 1:17:26

just not gonna go there with this class. Like people, especially earlier on, like want to go, like, yeah, I want to talk about this and that. Like the they want to see what they can get away with, and I'm like, we don't do uh politics, obviously don't know like the uh the isms, right? Like uh racism and sexism and all the all of that, like the we don't get into any of that stuff, and I just like put a hard line like I don't care what you think about this, it just will not happen here.

Joel 1:18:00

Yeah, I love that I've had to communicate that in a class also, yeah.

Maged 1:18:06

Um but I also think I'm meaner than you, so like I just when I tell people like uh go fuck off with yourself right now, like I don't have a problem saying that to someone in class.

Joel 1:18:16

And I I add the context of like for everyone to feel safe and in expressing vulnerability and their creative ideas, we all need to feel safe. And if it's a room where we're trying to push the, you know, share provocative ideas, it's like it's gonna keep that safety feeling, it's gonna be harder to attain that.

Maged 1:18:37

And I I hit them with the like we're working on the skills, like I'm not working on your tight five, like the we're not working on your tight five here. I don't care about your artistic expression. I'm trying to strengthen on how good you are at listening and saying yes, and yeah, those are the skills that we're focusing on. We're taking away any things that are gonna distract from that, and just by the sheer fact that we're having this conversation about this topic, we're distracting from just the purity of the skills.

Joel 1:19:07

Oh, love that. Yeah, that's a great communication. Yeah, uh, love teaching. Uh, are you do you miss teaching as much as you used to?

Maged 1:19:17

The honestly, when I was education director, I didn't teach as much as like the I got two classes coming up in this next session, a couple of uh DD classes, like D improv for DD for like beginners, like people that want to do improv for their D game, and then I'm also teaching like uh a tight acquaintances like level five where they get to perform their like that format, yeah.

Joel 1:19:43

Yeah, oh that's so cool. The improv for DD players is is that sold out? I don't know. I have no way of checking. Um man, I just I just find that because I I've had so many people in classes that sign up for classes to become better DD players, yes, yeah, and like DMs and stuff like that, like yeah, exactly. Yeah, um, that is so cool. That is so so cool. Yeah, and it'll run the same time that DD show is gonna be so incredible. Yeah, okay, cool, awesome. Did you ever feel okay? So when as an ensemble member at Dad's Garage, teaching, um, performing as much as you were, did you ever feel burnt out?

Burnout & the Cure: Go Do Anything Else

Maged 1:20:27

Near the end of my time as education director for sure.

Joel 1:20:34

Yeah, I did. Okay. Yeah, simple as that. Yes. Um, do you have ways about for I guess anyone who's experiencing burnout with like performing or or teaching like advice for that person experiencing a little bit of burnout? Do anything else.

Maged 1:20:52

Yeah, literally anything else. Go read a book or like find another thing to do that's wholly unrelated to doing improv all the time. I I think I like again come from like a fortunate the I feel like I can jump on stage pretty much just whenever I want at a number of places all the time because I'm so awesome. But like I like it's it is it's like I feel like I have access to stage time as much as I want. So I don't want this to come off as like saying, like, yeah, just do whatever out there, because I understand that that's a privileged position for sure. Like, by and large, the community is made up of people looking for stage time, yeah, but I'm the oddball because I'm looking for less stage time. So I'm not sure if like my answer super helps, but that's a good that's a good point, though.

Joel 1:21:50

Yeah, um, that's a good acknowledgement of that difference. Um, because I think well, maybe let's speak to breaks in general, because oftentimes people are on their improv journey for so long. Some people are doing classes back to back to back to back, looking to get better, going to jam, doing all this stuff. And even as a student and community member, there's a burnout there, yeah, and a and needing to take a break. And even that is still healthy to do, I think, to step away, live. I think that your your advice still resonates. Yeah. Even as a student and community member, sometimes you step away and take a little break.

Maged 1:22:26

It's and honestly, it's just you gotta be having I fully confidently uh believe that like you just have to be having fun. Like my whole thing is like inviting people into this fun that we're having together. Like the most the the most uh well received shows that any of us have ever done have been shows where we've been having a blast. And I think that's a one-to-one ratio. Uh and I try to have fun wherever I go, uh, even like to strangers when I don't have to, that I just learned today that I don't have to be doing that. Um, but you wanna like if you can this is a I feel like a note that I've given a number of times in the past as well. You can choose to be inspired, you can choose to find inspiration in your scene partner, you can choose to be uh enamored with the choices that people are making. You can like choose to be into the go out there and ask people to talk about something that they're passionate at passionate about, and then even if it's at especially if it's something that you have no idea or no interest in, and see if you can ride that passion. Like the like learn about like what people are interested in, like have them talk about themselves and like honestly listen and try to figure out the things that they're into. Like every once in a while I'll ask Ed to like give me the intricacies of the differences between the what metal genres exist. And I have he's not talking about anything that I can fully understand or retain. So uh, but I love because he's so into it. Like the and he'll always start with like, oh, this is like uh this is uh grunge dirt metal, this is you know, like uh black lung metal, and like the he'll tell me about like the intricate differences that like like I'm not I'm not going out there and listening to metal, like I'm not becoming like I am interested in how interested he is in it. You can do that to people, and you can do that in your improv scenes, like be into what they're saying and doing. I um this is uh a like I don't know if it's on my thoughts, but like um Han Dao just passed away. The uh and his memorial was pretty recent from this recording. Uh I remember one time at a jam, uh he the he was a very interesting player, uh, and there was a bunch of people on stage and he was making offers, and as often happens at jams, the there was like it was getting a little bit an of an offer pile, and I remember like choose like just getting every like tagging everyone out of the scene and just bringing Han like down front and center so we could do a scene together about him. It's like he was selling popcorn, but he was also so inherently anti-capitalist that he was trying to bring down the structure and fabric of uh the US economy as a popcorn salesman. And I was like, I'm into that, like not like Maggot was into this, but I made it so my character was into it as well. Like, like, listen, you can still do this, but I'm like, we we gotta sell some popcorn, like we gotta. We're like, there's overhead to pop. It's not a lot of over, but like just getting into the scene with him to like have give just being interested in what he had to say, and that's like all he needed for that scene to like super shine.

Joel 1:26:31

I love that because often we hear about following the funny, following the fun, but I love the thought of you can also follow what's interesting to you, yeah, not just funny, and and sincerely be interested.

Maged 1:26:46

Like the like if you're bored during an improv scene, then you're a boring improviser.

Joel 1:26:55

Oh, nice, yeah. Because we're doing something where we can literally make anything happen. Yeah, we can be anything, manifest anything, be anywhere. Right. Um and if we're in a scene and we're feeling boring, uh yeah, something's something's not right. We can do we can we have the ability to make a choice at any moment to make it more interesting and make it more fun.

Maged 1:27:22

But but not but and uh what makes it uh better is connecting with your scene partner because I think the what you just pointed to, we can make a scene about anything anywhere, all like whatever it is. The sometimes we make those what feel like interesting choices. This goes back to the objectives and tactics and expectations. If it's not rooted in our scene partner, then why are we watching it? Like I'm just hearing someone talk about spaceships, and that's not as interesting, but hearing a couple. Light over the color of a spaceship might be a little bit more interesting to me because it's about the couple, not the spaceship.

Joel 1:28:07

Always rooted in the characters in the relationship.

Maged 1:28:10

Yeah.

Joel 1:28:11

And your scene partner. Like just the You're right. The most boring scenes that I can think of are always the ones that feel disconnected. The people are just talking about something random. Nothing's really rooted in the relationship of the people that I'm always wondering, like, who are these people even talking about this thing? Yeah. Yeah. Um before we move off of teaching, I wanna I'm I wonder if there's any nuggets you have for people that want to be better teachers out there.

Nuggets for Becoming a Better Teacher

Maged 1:28:42

Yes. I come out of every scene, ask my students uh how's that feel? How'd you do? What'd you think? Something to that degree, but you gotta change the phrasing almost every time that you say that. Yeah. So it doesn't sound repetitive. Yeah. Uh the or you could just say it exactly the same because then they'll start you'll start classically conditioning your students to just come out of scenes and self-reflect. And I do this to do just that. I I want to change. There's like a rip, there are kind of three steps in incorporating a note. There's uh in retrospect, but you look back and you say, I could have done this. Then there's while it's happening, I'm gonna correct this really quick, and I'm gonna course correct. So there's in retrospect presently, and then preventative. The then you like instead of I'm not gonna get to that place that I'm going to need that same note for. So I think the easiest one to think about, like example, is like asking questions, right? Uh, you're doing three-line scenes. We do this in like the beginning level one. Understanding why we don't ask questions is a whole different conversation, but we're just saying this one guideline of improv is we don't ask questions. Somebody asks questions, you stop the scene, you're like, hey, you asked a question. The let's try to move this. I'm happy to provide you like a different turn it into a statement and let's figure it out. They turn it into a statement, they go around to three-line scenes. Next time they ask a question, stop, and turn it into a statement part way through, and you see their brain shifting and incorporating the note, then they just you just see them stop asking questions. You don't need the note anymore. That's preventative.

Joel 1:30:35

Oh, nice. That's a great example. Yes. And I do love, I think a lot of the teachers I've had do something similar where they how do you how did that how did that feel? Then what are your thoughts? Scale of one to ten. Where are you at? Like yeah, love that. And I do see that sometimes after when asking that after a scene or game or exercise, oftentimes the students already know, yeah. They know, oh, we didn't have a platform, we didn't have a strong relationship, right?

Maged 1:31:01

They already know, and then you can just and then you'll look like a superhero, you just drop a little nugget, you're like, Yeah, the you're I saw when you were trying to do this, you could have brought more clarity to how you were doing that. You can like, even if you don't have a note, just like just tell people to bring more clarity when they're doing something, they'll be like, Oh, yeah. Cool. Like the because you know it's hard to note everything, it's hard to note everything, and it is dreaming.

Joel 1:31:31

When it's really good or really bad. Yeah. When it's I feel like when it's really good, yeah. I feel I'll just shout out something I enjoyed from the scene. Yeah. But that's noting the choice, not the move. I guess that yeah. Oh, I didn't I never thought of that. Yeah. Noting the choice. I enjoyed something from the scene, yeah.

Maged 1:31:58

Because usually when you say like it was really funny when you said this, and then like the I even try to not note that because Oh, because it's building into subconsciously people listening to that.

Joel 1:32:08

Right.

Maged 1:32:11

But hey, strong character at the top. I knew exactly how you felt about your other your scene partner.

Joel 1:32:17

Oh, I love that. So still even complimenting the move, yeah.

Maged 1:32:22

No choice, like the elevate the move and oh, nice. Uh, that's great. And sometimes you you talk like it's just it comes up like you're like sometimes on I but I will do a strong preface. Like, if I'm like, this is something that came up in the scene, I have a really funny tag for this. This isn't a note, I just need to say this out loud because the comedy cannot stay inside. And I'm like, I have to share this with you. And that, like, you were here, you were here, I would have said that's the only time. Like, I'm like, I see if I add the I would have said this, there's a strong preface of like, this isn't a note. I'm not telling you you did anything wrong, but I really gotta it's and I like frame it as like it inspired me to think of what I would have done in the scene, and I would have said something like this, and that was really funny.

Joel 1:33:15

I love still sharing that thought with that that preface. Yeah, that's really cool. That's really cool. Um, okay, teaching. I have jams. How important were jams to you when you were coming up in the in improv?

Jams: Community First, Not "Real" Stage Time

Maged 1:33:29

At one point in college, I was doing improv four times a week for a very long time at like two different at a jam uh and three different rehearsals. No, even more like there was uh two jams every once in a week, because like the at school we had like an open jam, I don't think weekly, but it'd be like a couple of jams, one rehearsal like four or five times a week. Like the I have a very mixed opinion about jamming as an improviser. I think it becomes doubly, triply important to find the joy in the jam and not necessarily rely on jams for building technique. Because, and we've talked, you and I have specifically talked about this before. The idea that, like, when you go to jams, you're learning how to perform for audiences that go to jams, you're learning how to perform for other improvisers, and those rhythms are just inherently different to people that don't know, like you always hear like, oh, that's a meta joke. Meta jokes sell at jams like hotcakes, right? The it's the it just like goes well at jams, uh, and we don't there's no way for us in the audience to not be improvisers. We might try, we might like pretend to be like I'm gonna cheer and clap at the thing that I think is just funny without paying attention to the improv move that made me interested. But like it, you just can't. Like the if you're being truthful and spontaneous both on stage and offstage, the and they don't have to be like the training grounds for shows, but I think people really cannot differentiate because of the limited amount of stage time that inherently exists in a city like Atlanta, the they count jams at stage time, and I would challenge people to not count jams as stage time. It's time for community, it's time for work to a degree. I would like go into jams with a goal, um, but I'd like just really caution against treating it as if it is truthful stage time.

Joel 1:36:03

I I love I love that, and that's something that I've shared similarly. I say that classroom reps are different than jam reps and are different than show reps. Yes, all of those are different, and all of those are important to work different skills.

Maged 1:36:18

Yes, because we've we've everyone's heard it. Rep, yeah, just yeah, reps, reps, reps, you need reps, get your reps in, get your reps in. But uh a rep is different than a quality rep. If all of your reps are jams, yeah, and the jams are bad, that doesn't prepare you for a show, and you're frustrated because you only got one scene in the 20-minute set that you are in because there were so many offer piles and you waited four hours to get to your thing. Like, is that a quality rep if you were like coming off frustrated and like mad? But if you're going to the jam to build community, have fun, fuck around with like other people and like the just like for the levity of it, and you're not putting so much pressure. The I I find people put pressure on jams. I'm like, don't, dude. Like the back off of that, like the come here, have fun, the regardless of what jam you go to, like be silly.

Joel 1:37:22

I I agree. I think that's the best way to approach jams. Yeah, I think that's the best way to approach jams. Um, you helped to bring back essentially bring back the the jams at Dad's garage, the themed improv jam. Yeah. Um and I wanted to thank you. Well, I was yeah, sh I appreciate that. I couldn't have done it without you and Courtney and and Carson. Yeah, I could have done it without you guys. Probably. Yeah, probably. You probably could have. No, I mean it's just yeah, like it's great though. Um no, but it was something that I love the honesty. I could have done it without y'all, but yeah. I could have, I mean, probably it's just I don't I didn't want to lie to you. Yeah, it would have been a lot more work just for you. Oh, I would have found you would have found other people. Son of a bitch. Yeah, son of a bitch, I'm in um, yeah.

Rebuilding the Dad's Garage Themed Jam

Maged 1:38:24

It's like because I said I didn't want to lie to you, but I could have also just said nothing. Like I didn't have to like go out of my way to that point, yeah.

Joel 1:38:32

But you did, and I appreciate it because that's you. Yeah, and speaking to that honesty, uh, I feel like you helped us uh the jam hosts um become better hosts, um, and also just really cultivate something really special at the the themed improv jam at Dad's Garage. Um really fun, really different, really interesting. And it's I feel it's there's like 60 plus people there every Tuesday that we have a jam. And it used to be like 10 people.

Maged 1:39:06

Yeah, I think it was it had been on an upward momentum, like before we kind of took charge of it. The I if I had to like point to something that I am very happy with is like finding, and we we kind of like you and I specifically were very data-driven, and how in those first few jams, we were like, we're gonna try everything. We if people could like go back and like see what we put together for like we're gonna do this kind of jam, we're gonna do this kind of jam. Yeah, and I was like, there were some things that I was really stringent on, and I don't even know if they're like still held in place where I'm like, people cannot know what the jam is before we get there. Does that still like the are the jam types still moving around?

Joel 1:39:57

The jam types are still moving around, but they're not um as hidden as they were before. Okay, yeah, yeah. I wish that was still there, but it is one of those like if it was a you wanted a surprise each week. A hundred percent, but it takes planning and it takes care, like it takes like yeah, it takes it takes planning and care, and also we we just got a lot of feedback that people wanted to know beforehand before showing up to a jam. They again to to the students and community feedback was that they may not have wanted to go to that jam.

Maged 1:40:30

Yeah, I get that, and but you and I specifically have had conversations about this, and this goes back to our jam philosophy in that you can come to a jam, but it's you gotta you have to be there for community. So I believe that if people stop coming to the jam because they can't deal with the lack of control that they have over it, then that is a self-selection process that helps with the overall health of the community. Because we talked about this with the the caps on the signup sheets, right? We were like, if you if we cannot go past a certain cap, we're gonna keep this at a certain number of hours. If somebody shows up and they don't get on the jam sign up sheet and they decide to leave, then that is good because that is some we should be trying to invite the sort of people for that community that show up, sign up, and if they can't sign up, they're there to hang out anyway because that's the important part. The community part of it's the important part.

Joel 1:41:38

Yeah, I like emphasizing the community part, and you're right. I think you know what now that I'm thinking about it, we say ahead of time the theme, if there's a theme, right? But not what the not what the difference of the jam is.

Maged 1:41:52

We landed on that is like the theme so people can like do costumes and drinks and stuff like that.

Joel 1:41:57

Um no, but the jam is bumping, and uh, I just hosted my last one last night ever? No, last week before Chicago. You're going to Chicago forever for a month and a half.

Joel's Chicago Trip

Maged 1:42:11

No, okay. So uh for people out there listening, Joel texted me about this podcast, and he was like, uh, yeah, do you want to come do this podcast before I leave for Chicago? And I was like, wait, are you we hadn't talked for a little while? I was like, are you moving to Chicago? Like he was like, no, I'm just going for a while. And I was like, you can't there was a phrase of it. Yeah. That you're that I didn't give the full context. Yeah, until until I go do my workshop in Chicago and come back. Like, could have been a more appropriate, like you know how sensitive and anxious I am.

Joel 1:42:45

Yeah, I actually had a few messages this past week because of I had a uh a keychain musical improv show and it was like it's like your birthday show. It was my birthday show, it could have very easily been a go-away show. Yeah, it could have been a gun-away show, and somebody took a picture of it and posted it like Joel's farewell show or like after the with the way they were, and people were messaging me like, Are you moving? You're moving to Chicago, what's happening? So I had to tell every yeah, yeah, tell everyone that is just for the intensive, yeah. So it's like the just come forward with that information, straight up. Yeah, but I like the mystery. I like the mystery.

Maged 1:43:22

I know, but it's harsh for everyone else involved.

Joel 1:43:26

No, I'm still here, y'all. I love Atlanta so much, love this community, and I'll be here. I'm going to Chicago for the five-week um intensive improv intensive I IO and a one-week musical improv intensive. Uh, want to go level up myself, learn some more from a different city, and then bring that stuff back. Anything I learn, any new nuggets, any new exercises, games, whatever the case is.

Maged 1:43:48

Yeah, before we went live, we were talking about um improv or acting books and stuff.

Joel 1:43:54

Oh, wait, I think that was on. That was on. That was on. Yeah, okay.

Maged 1:43:56

We've just been talking for a while.

Joel 1:43:58

Yeah, and I'll be yeah, I'll be learning even when I'm not in the intensive, I'm gonna be reading those acting books and like really polishing up my even my musical improv curriculums. I I'm feeling like I've mentioned there's like this gap in acting and theatricality before narrative. Because we're trying to imitate musical theater in music in my the musical improv intermediate classes and narrative stuff, and we don't have the body language and emotion to fully you know imitate musical theater musicals. Yeah, that's what's missing. Um, so I'm looking to build a new class before we get to narrative. There's a book, it's a theater

Theatricality Through Stillness & Intention

Joel 1:44:45

book.

Maged 1:44:45

It's the empty stage, uh I think by Peter Brook. Look it up later. And like edit uh Matt, edit edit the back end, like just me saying this correctly after we look it up. But it's like the uh it's about a production of Hamlet that didn't have a set or any costumes. Uh and I think sometimes for improv, especially, we think of movement as bigger than it actually has to be when it doesn't necessarily have to be as big to get the same quote unquote theatricality. Um, it just has to be specific and intentional. Right. Um, I did this a lot when I directed uh Christmas Carol, is I took a lot of stuff away, and my focus was on just characters and connection, and people responded pretty positively to that, and that if it if you have that, I think what you need for that theatricality is bigger like connection and intention, not necessarily like learning how to dance and body movement.

Joel 1:46:13

Yeah, 100%. Yeah, I agree. Intentional movements, one hundred percent.

Maged 1:46:17

Cause I bet the you could sit and see somebody sing a song completely still on stage, if it's coming with their chest open and it's from the heart, it's gonna be more captivating than trying to get the dance trying to do a dance diamond for the one millionth time. 100%.

Joel 1:46:38

I agree with you. I agree with you. And even that, even that coaching, like that note of like learning how to stand still intentionally in character and have an emotional monologue or have an emotional song, that is something that um I'm having that I'm learning that needs to be taught. Yeah. The move, the even the intentionally standing still, or intentional movement, intentional cross across the stage, right? Like an status shift or moving downstage intentionally, just like all that stuff.

Maged 1:47:14

And I I remember uh this is a I can't remember if it was a jam or a show. Had to have been a show. I don't know. Uh, but I was on stage with uh Marcus Gallishaw and I remember it was a scene about like a shoe that was like I was telling him like a boring, boring shoe, and I was like very monotonous, trans as much of a transaction scene as you could possibly get. It was based on Armando, it was like a story that somebody told. I was like, Yeah, the shoe's like whatever, it's like 20 bucks or whatever. Then I grabbed this other shoe off of the shelf, quote unquote, and then I turned around and opened it up and went into this monologue, and I s I was like just facing completely away from him, but I went like deep into and this shoe descends from the god, like just way in the complete other direction, and I couldn't see him. Uh, I later found out he was like doing like a Neo in the Matrix, like back bends getting blown by like air and like the just having like falling over and stuff like that. Uh, but it was the stage picture of like the what gave into that is like I could have turned over my shoulder and like watched what he was doing, but I just like stayed pointed away from him, trusted that he was killing it over there because the audience was like losing their shit, uh, and just holding that like sometimes that felt theatrical, and I was standing in my area completely still, I gave it nothing, and he was doing something that was the opposite of that that was getting a reaction.

Joel 1:48:58

Yeah, I I have a that stage picture in my mind. You described that sounds really cool. Yeah, sounds really cool. I I want to ask you if you have any improv that advice that someone gave you at one point that really stuck to

The Best Note Maged Ever Got

Joel 1:49:14

you.

Maged 1:49:14

This is actually an acting class uh advice that somebody gave me pretty early on in my acting uh career in college. I had a uh professor give me a two-word note that I go by to this day, and that is let go. Let go. We just kind of come into scenes holding on to all sorts of stuff. The the idea of like what the reps, how re show reps and jam reps and class reps can be different in class. I think you really, really hold on to everything, try to work on everything that you're learning that uh, but I think in like a jam or a show. Go. You gotta let all of it go. You gotta like let all the character homework. You gotta be spontaneous. Just be like have it from the tip of your tongue to out into the world. Like just let go of whatever you're holding on to.

Joel 1:50:16

Let go. Oh, I love that. Yeah, I love that. Just drop drop the baggage. I because you can sometimes feel when somebody comes into a scene at a jam or a class or a show or whatever the case is, and they have this really clear idea that they're trying to force through. You can feel it. Yeah, you can feel it. Clear as day. Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes you just gotta let go and just let be spontaneous and be present. Yeah. What your scene partner. Yeah.

Maged 1:50:40

If if somebody else, it's I mean, that's just the thing. I think there's like a lot of jams, especially the people come in with ideas and they're like, well, they didn't say yes to my idea, so I'm not gonna say yes to their like they blocked my offer, so I'm gonna try to push my offer again. But in turn, you're blocking their offer. And they may not have blocked your offer, they just might not have heard your offer because it wasn't super clear. Or they did hear your offer, but the offer that they're making isn't the kind of offer that you're expecting them to make, the because you're writing a sketch in your head, exactly. You're not living truthfully in the moment, and being into what they're bringing to the table, just be into it. Like be inspired, it'll be more fun. It'll be more fun.

Joel 1:51:27

So we're getting to the end of the podcast. I want to ask you if there's anything on your mind or heart you want to share with the improv community before we put you in the hot seat. Before we put what's the hot seat. It's just a series of questions there in the hot seat to end the episode. Okay, cool. Uh, anything in my heart or mind about improv? That's standing out that you want students to know, the community to know.

Final Thoughts

Maged 1:51:52

Um this is gonna come off as pretty glib. But and I've said it before. I think everything you need to learn about improv, you can learn in a level one improv class. Yeah. And when I said it earlier, you mentioned like like the dad's garage level. I'm like, no, just like I think after Zip Zap Zop, everyone's done learning about improv. I don't think there's anything left to learn after if you can master Zip Zap Zop, you can go out into the world and do improv.

Joel 1:52:33

There's something that resonates with that because level one is my favorite class still that I've ever taken. Um, that in like a Madeline's classes, because it's the ol I I feel like it's the only class that truly focuses on the pillars of improv. Yeah. And like you mentioned, everything else, all the other levels, it's just like seasoning on top of that. So I feel like if I want to get better at improv, sometimes I retake a level one or I retake, I retake a um a foundation. Yeah. And go through the pillars again and strengthen the pillars of just listening, yes and being present, just redo that. Yeah. Um, and I I agree with you because all the main stuff the main bulk of what we need is in that level one.

Maged 1:53:27

It's in that level one. I think you can come out of level one and just I mean, also, you know, like going back to the beginning of the origin story. My first time doing improv, I had just seen it on TV at that point. And according to everyone involved, I did great.

Joel 1:53:43

Yeah. Wow. High school maggot. Yeah. One improv. I won improv. Day one. Uh Maggot, I gotta ask you, are you ready to enter the hot seat? I don't know. Let me take a deep breath.

Hot Seat Questions!!

Mixed 1:54:00

Okay, buckle it, buckle in. Here we go. Click. Okay. It's a hold on. I got another, it's like I'm in like a room. It's a double buckle. Yeah. Yeah.

Joel 1:54:08

Oh, that's tight in there. Okay, Maggot.

Maged 1:54:13

That was pretty good.

Joel 1:54:14

That was pretty good. Yeah, you are tightly in ready to go. Uh, and before we enter the hot seat, there is- Do I have to answer these quickly? Is that oh okay? No. Um so why do I gotta buckle up? You just do. Because you gotta enter the hot seat. Okay, okay. Now you're making me. I felt like you're expecting I I guess that the hot seat does imply I felt like there was like some sort of lightning round aspect to it.

Maged 1:54:42

We can. No, no, that's fine. I don't wanna I don't I'm not trying to note your butt you're no, you're you're you can kind of see where I'm coming from.

Joel 1:54:53

No, 100%. 100%. I feel like it's a false promise when I say hot seat.

Maged 1:55:00

It's and it's really just a lukewarm continuation of just so I'm in complete understanding. And Matt, you can edit all of this out, like this part of it, you can edit out. But like I thought we were just gonna um really what we're getting into is more questions.

Joel 1:55:15

We're getting into more questions, but they're always the same questions for the hot seat. Okay. Yeah, but they're not to me, not to me. They're this they're just like different questions. They're just different questions. More questions, they're just more questions. From my point of view, you know. I'm gonna revisit this. Interaction is gonna make me revisit the hot seat, and maybe I'll have a timer. Maybe I'll have yeah, and it'll be more, it'll be hotter. Yeah, it'll be actually be a hot seat. I got you. Um we get back into that first. Okay, so the first hot seat question. Oh, and the hot seat uh jingle for today is hot seat with Maggie. My voice hurts from being a pirate. Yeah, that sounded how did that hurt? It hurt, yeah. Yeah, that pirate voice. Yeah, drink some water. Uh, first question is what is your go-to like physicality or or pantomiming? Like, what's your some of your favorite to go through to go to?

Maged 1:56:21

I I mean sweeping, mixing bowl, um typing. The I read an article one time that the all you need to learn about mime is that you just separate your fingers. That's it. Anytime you mime something on stage, you just separate your fingers. So like instead of holding a cup with your fingers closed, you separate them out. And what that does is it flexes your hand and forearm in a way that it gives weight to the thing that try it out with your like the you this is just like like do it with your fingers together, like that's your you feel like forearms kind of, but if you separate out your fingers, like you feel all of that, yeah.

Joel 1:57:08

I even see the muscle contract, yeah.

Maged 1:57:10

Well, you're strong, you're like you don't got the um his uh audience's muscles are bulging, his shirt's ripping in half. Uh but the um when you get the like it creates tension, so there's weight for the thing that you're holding, and the more that you can like imagine and hold on to this thing and like give it a weight, the more the audience can feel it and see it. Even now, as I'm like talking to you, I feel this like sloshing around a little bit and like the way I'm like holding it. Oh, yeah. And then if it's real to you, it's real to everyone else. Yeah, and you put it down, and then you like let go and you feel your hand on flex.

Joel 1:57:50

Yeah.

Maged 1:57:51

Same thing with like opening the window. I'm not gonna like bring it down with my fingers together, just open my fingers apart, like you feel a weight to the thing that you're holding.

Joel 1:58:00

Oh, yeah, you're so right.

Maged 1:58:02

Uh yeah, open your fingers up. Yeah, yeah. Scientific way of explaining object work.

Joel 1:58:09

I love that. I love that. Um, yeah, I do I do feel like uh physic the physicality and pantomime is something I don't think we focus on enough in in building a a scene and like yeah.

Maged 1:58:24

I had a scene one time with someone that uh I used to do, we're still like whenever very rarely, because she's so busy, but with uh Hannah S. Leeson, we I we would do a duo called Till Death that we would interview a couple in the audience, and based on the information that they provided to us, we would tell them if this couple's relationship's gonna going to end in a proposal or a death. And that's how we would start the show. Like, we'd be like, proposal or a death, and we'll see it in five. Like, we'd go jump right into it and do their relationship and stuff. And like we found our we were on stage one time, and the I remember I was like, I'm gonna make some ramen. We were like in kind of the middle of the show, like sort of act two of like this three-act story, and like I was like, I'm just gonna make some ramen, and she was calling me, um, and she was leaving a message, and I was like, I'm not gonna quote unquote check my phone until I'm done making this ramen. And like I just left her to like hung out to dry for a while, but because I was just Was she doing the ringing, the ringing sound? She was like leaving a message and like wanting me to like pick up and like the just like leave like waiting for me to pick up for like this message that she was like, and she like at this point knew like Maggie's not gonna say anything, and she was like just gonna keep on doing the thing until I made any sort of offer her way, but I just like kept on doing my thing and like making my ramen, and like she went on for like six minutes, like a really long time, like way too long of a time to like do that thing. That went really well.

Joel 2:00:31

Yeah, I mean you were having fun do making your ramen.

Maged 2:00:34

Yeah, yeah, just focus on your object, your environment. It was real ramen, it was chicken flavored, like the and I did it the way that I make it, where like I put it in, uh waited for it to boil, put the uh ramen in, drained it, put it on a plate, craft cheese singles, popped it into the like the more specificity that you can bring to it, the better.

Joel 2:00:56

Did she say anything after the show?

Maged 2:00:58

Uh yeah, something along the lines like, fuck you, why would you do that to me? You're awful. I hate you. That's awful playing with you. The it's so challenging, both being uh professionally and personally close to you. You know, the normal stuff.

Joel 2:01:15

You know the kind of stuff that people say after shows, all the usual stuff, all the usual stuff after shows. That's what everyone says, right? Yeah, absolutely. That's very normal. Um, next hot seat question. Okay. What are some of your favorite characters to play?

Maged 2:01:29

I mean, I've been playing uh Kirg Half Orc Barbarian for 10 years. Uh that's a character that like I feel like he lives on his own now. Like, I've even like played him on other DD, like non-Dad's Garage, like show related. Like, he's a character that like does his own thing whenever I put him on. So like there's uh that's like Kirk's my ride or die, the big character for me. Um I don't really think the I mean I have a bunch of over the years we've I've done like some characters for scandal. I had like my one of the first scandals, or maybe the first scandal that I was ever uh cast in was uh Khaki Rao Boa. It was like it must have been like 2017, like right after the election, and because like Russians were in the news for hacking our elections and stuff like that, and this was um it was essentially Rocky Balboa who was training to fight Russians because he didn't know he heard that they were like hacking our computers and he didn't know computer he like he didn't know computers, but he did know punching. So he was gonna try his punch his way out of the hacks that the Russians were doing on our in the first candle.

Joel 2:02:55

Yeah. That's did you have the accent? Did you have the rocky?

Maged 2:02:58

Yeah, yeah. Um, uh so uh yeah, you know I I don't know computers, but I do know punching.

Mixed 2:03:10

This is kind of where he lives at, right here. And that's cocky raw. That's cocky raw boa.

Joel 2:03:15

Cocky raw Boa. Uh Cocky Rauboa, favorite characters. Okay. Last one for the hot seat. Okay. For the championship. Alright. What's something you want to a piece of advice for new improvisers that you want to give that you wish you can give to all new improvisers? Make eye contact with your sane partner.

Maged 2:03:41

There's a uh tactile thing that you can do in scene. Just look at your scene partner more in the eyes. Yeah.

Joel 2:03:52

Yeah, it truly makes a difference. Yeah, it's so funny because so many like warm-up exercises, um, already there's an aversion to making eye contact in Zip Zap Zop, in Five Things when we go around, it's like people don't look at each other still.

Maged 2:04:10

It just like that one simple trick, the this one simple trick will make your improv better, the clickbait title. But like the one simple of just like looking your scene partners in the eyes, you can like see where they're going, you can see how excited they are, you can see if your offers are landing, you can see their moves before they make them. And like, obviously, there's a million points of advice that I'd give. Uh, but if I had to like pick one thing to say, it's just I think we could be making eye contact more often. Yeah, I love I love that one.

Joel 2:04:45

No, I think that's an important one. Uh Megan, we have reached the end. We've

Closing Thoughts & "Gymprov"

Joel 2:04:52

made it.

Maged 2:04:52

We made it. Yeah. How do you feel? Pretty good. I feel like, I mean, we've been sitting here for seven hours now, so I wonder what this is gonna get edited down to. Yeah, I'm just wondering, like we're probably gonna cut a lot. Okay, do you just put it all up? Okay, that's what I was gonna ask.

Joel 2:05:08

Do you put it all up or like uh I've done um breaking down long episodes into probably two episodes, is what I've done. All right, this one might need to be three or four episodes. Yes. Um, but we'll me we may cut a lot. Yeah, we may cut a lot. Um we may cut the your trip to Iceland to train with the the monk improvisers there. We have to cut that story out.

Maged 2:05:30

Like a non-sequitur, but I feel like it was like real important to as long as you keep all of like the stuff, the prison stuff, because I feel like that's really important for the people and community. And I have I'm like legally obligated to share that with people that I am in the like that I have any interaction with. The the prison, but I'm taking this as an opportunity to do that so that way everybody knows.

Joel 2:05:54

Yeah, the prison story was fascinating. It was just long and I it would take up a lot of the episode. I'm gonna I'm gonna meet with Matt. Yeah, see what and see what what we should keep. Yeah, yeah. Is there any story that you really, really want to keep in there?

Maged 2:06:09

The I mean, if you could cut everything about dad's garage, okay, the just keep that stuff out. We'll do.

Joel 2:06:18

Yeah, we'll do. Um, Maggie, thank you so much for joining me on the Joy of Improv podcast. It was so nice to talk to you. I love nerding out with you about improv. Um, and again, you've just been such a huge influence on me just being around you, watching you play, even um, our time together working at Dad's garage. Did I ever pitch you on this show that I want to do with you? Grumps is about.

Maged 2:06:44

Oh, grumps, no, grumps is good. Different one?

Joel 2:06:46

Is wait, what was it? Pumps, grumps, and dumps? Pumps, you mean me, you, and Nate. Yeah, pumps, grumps, and dumps. And dumps because Nate's always farting. Yeah, he's got he's a poopy boy.

Maged 2:06:56

Uh no, it's a gym prov. Did I ever pitch you on gym prov? Gym prov? It doesn't sound familiar. We're just working out and doing improv. That's as much as I've thought about it.

Joel 2:07:08

Oh, the uh so the it's always we're at the gym exercising, and that's where it starts.

Maged 2:07:13

Yeah, I think like the we like do act, we like put heart rate monitors on that go up on screens and actually do stuff that affect that. Um, and I think like we started off as kind of like this short form gamey thing and slowly transition into a long form about how important it is to work on your mental health and accordance with your physical health.

Joel 2:07:40

There's something there, especially the piece that our we have heart rate monitors hooked up to something that the audience is seeing our heart rate, so we're exercising genuinely uh-huh mid-show, mid-scene. Uh okay. Maybe coming to you soon, Atlanta Gym Prof. Gimprof. Uh, thank you so much, Megan. I appreciate you. Thank you, Joel. I really appreciate this.

Maged 2:08:02

Thank you, and thank you for everything that you do for the uh Atlanta community and uh music in general.

Joel 2:08:08

My pleasure. My pleasure. I'm only here because of uh inspirations like you and so many others in the community that keep me excited to keep getting better and keep performing and keep giving back to the community. So I appreciate that. Yeah, man. Love you. Um thank you all for listening to the Joy of Improv Podcast. See you next time. Bye. If you're enjoying the podcast and you want to support and keep this podcast going, you can support in one of two ways. You can leave a five-star review. And if you do, please leave an improv topic that you want us to discuss or perhaps a question for a future guest. Another way to support the podcast is to give a monetary contribution on our Ko-Fi page. Anything helps, a dollar, five dollars does not matter. Anything helps in keeping the podcast going. You can find the link to contribute in our Instagram or in the link in the episode description. Thank you so, so much for listening. It means so much that you're here. See you next time and scene. I want to say thank you to Matt Isaacs. Thank you so much, Matt, for editing these episodes. Matt is a talented and kind member of the Atlanta Improv community. If anyone out there has any audio editing or song mixing needs, please reach out to me at Joel at the joyoffimprov.com. I'll connect you with Matt and get you on your way to getting some clean, fresh audio.