LCM Special - XUM with Avens O'Brien

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Tripp introduces the proverbial High Priestess of XUM/PLUR products, Avens O'Brien.

We encourage our curious explorers of their own mind to check them out at XUMtrip.com

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If you enjoy this show.  Then try tuning into "Conversations With the Hoff"

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:26

Welcome to a special edition. I just wanted to uh welcome uh my good friend, my new good friend, Ovens O'Brien. And uh she is here with uh Zoom and I is it Plur? Pleur, okay. And um and because they have smiley faces for the U. And um I'm German, so I keep thinking that they're umlaut.

SPEAKER_01 0:49

Uh it's definitely like an intentional kind of uh winky face at that, I think if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 0:58

And uh G, I just have to say uh these are really incredible, incredible natural products. Um and um you don't have to be a uh a chemist to uh to understand them. You just have to I guess my thing is uh and those who listen to my uh my Liberty on Nicotine cigar podcast know that I'm really into lifestyle, enjoyment, and enjoying the moment with the product. And these are absolute enjoy the moment products uh that they can come out with. And I just want to start out by asking, how did I I guess what was the progress? How did the start out uh your company start out? Was it just uh with growing things and then just went on to it?

SPEAKER_01 1:49

Sort of, yeah. There was a there's an interesting evolution. And I'm I'm gonna also uh I'll in a in a few minutes I'll extrapolate a little bit on uh what you would term natural, because like natural is a is a is a is not quite what I would use to describe this, but but I will natural chemical. Yeah, so so um just because I don't want people to be like misinformed, so I like to make sure that people are really clear on what this is. But let's say so what we started with is um so I mean I've been a myself, I've been a a psychonaut and a and someone very interested in plant medicine and also just like straight up like taking LSD and things like that. I've been I've been interested in like in the psychedelic journey for for 20 years. You know, I've been I uh I so this is something that I've loved, and then my partner Judd, he is both my partner in like life and in you know, in love and in in in our in our work together. Um, you know, he's also an enthusiast of um of of psychedelics. And so we were both very enthusiastic about psychedelics in general. When we met, it was one of our bonding experiences, that in libertarianism. And we um uh and and so we like we were already deeply in that. And we live in California, so we had been uh we had been in the cannabis space, and actually um that was just kind of a uh to for lack of a better term, a shit show. Um, because um the way that cannabis regulation in California kind of turned out, it really was really destructive to the industry. Um and uh and so you know, we we love cannabis and we, you know, but but we were just kind of like we need to pivot out of this because it's just an it's an overly regulated market with overly taxed market and it's it's just not a sustain, it's not a place to create a sustainable business and and uh and and get people what we would like them to enjoy. And so um really like the the the birth of this company really came about with um uh as we kind of pivoted away from that, um, you know, we got we got very into magic mushrooms, uh especially uh in 2000 in 2020, basically, there was a there was a a bunch of people were just uh at home quite a bit, as you might remember. There was a there was a bit of time where everybody just had had nothing to say, kind of had nothing to do. And you know, a lot of my friends were making sourdough starter, and I was like, you know, I know how to grow mushrooms, but I'd like to get really good at it. So I will say that that definitely was an influence. Um and then in uh in 2021, we basically decided we were like, you know what, we're gonna pivot out of cannabis entirely. We're gonna pivot into the magical world of mushrooms. And um one of the things that we we were interested in doing is, you know, I can't legally grow magic mushrooms and sell them. I can't, I can't do that. Like that's not federally allowed, and that's not there's there's very few states in which that's allowed, or very few like municipalities where that's allowed. However, um, what we did is we were learning how to kind of scale growing to the point where what we could do is we could sell mushroom grow bags and liquid culture. And so liquid culture is it's not spores. Um, spores are like a seed of a mushroom. Liquid culture is kind of like the embryo of a mushroom. It's a it's an early stage mycelium that allows, it's actually it speeds up your growth, um, but it's not quite as hardy as spores. Anyway, the the point was that we produced liquid culture, we produced grow bags, and then what we did is we just tried to to scale that and market that in such a way that we could make it as we, our tagline was radically simple. We wanted to make it radically simple to grow your own magic mushrooms. And we had basically like we we looked at our experience over a couple years, like growing them to kind of say this isn't a radically simple experience, so how do we make it radically simple? And so the the basic basically the birth of our company started with how do we make this experience radically simple for others so that they can grow their own medicine, they can grow their own recreation, they can grow their own magic, however they whatever they want to do with it, right? Um, and so we sold grow bags, which were, you know, soil and grain and like and the optimized nutrients for celestial cubensis mushrooms. Um we sold that as like a sterilized, uh vacuum-sealed, you know, uh um uh store steer-friendly product with a sh, you know, like with a with a long shelf life. And then we we sold that and the product itself, so the company is called Advanced Mycology, and the and the product was shroom, S-H-R-U with the little dots above it, M. So the idea was like this is shroom. And so this is how this all started is we were selling grow bags, we were selling liquid culture, we started selling these to smoke shops and to head shops and to um into hydro shops that sell cannabis growing materials, and and um we started selling this in in in a lot of like miscellaneous places and having a little online following. And uh, and so that was going well for a couple of years. We just we're selling grow bags, we're selling liquid culture, because neither of those two things are illegal. And then once you combine it, once you inject liquid culture into a grow bag, you may or may not be in violation of your local laws, depending on how your laws are written. In some places, it's actually perfectly legal to have them growing on your property. It's when you pick them that it be they become illegal, or when you intend to consume them, they become illegal. It's but like this is this is just how the local law and then the growth law is like so the federal law like treats psilocybin like this terrible thing, which is which is wild. Um but um but anyway, so we were doing that for years, and then in 20 uh like we we had a couple of uh like uh we had a smaller version of the same product that came out in 2024. Um and then in 2024, one of the things that we did is we did a partnership with Mike Tyson, and so uh I taught basically so I taught Mike Tyson how to grow mushrooms using our grow bags, and this is really fun. We get to like film this, we get to we like it was a really cool experience, and um and he's he's great. Right, right, yeah. He's he was very happy with the mushrooms. Um, and so we grew mushrooms together, and then um, and then I gave him the mushrooms that he grew and he ate them in front of me, which was wild. Um quite quite the experience. Um and uh so so anyway, so we were doing that through 2024, and then what happened basically is um you know, the we definitely saw in 24 and 25, 2025, we were like we were starting to see, especially towards the end of 2024, we were seeing an influx of consumable products in the marketplace. And these are consumable products that called themselves magic mushroom gummies or magic mushroom, you know, whatevers, magic mushroom chocolates. And what's really interesting is that there wasn't clarity in the marketplace about what they were, is you know, were was this mushrooms? Was this some kind of analog of mushrooms? Well, like what was this? And so we basically started buying these products and trying them and kind of going, yeah, I think this one actually is mushrooms, and we started like sending things out for test results. We started trying to communicate with the brand owners and and discover what these things were. And what we found is that there was already this marketplace of um of analog of analog compounds. And there's a there's a compound that was called for ACO DMT, which uh was basically in 2024, uh and in like basically in 2024, that was like the thing that was in all those magic mushroom products. And the thing that's interesting about 4-ACODMT is it's a it's a synthetic analog of psilocybin, and it actually um when it breaks down in your body, so when you consume it, when it's for ACO DMT, it's not technically an illegal substance. Um, but when you when you eat it, when you uh when you swallow it and and it it processes by your liver, the active metabolite is for HODMT, which is psilocin, which is the active metabolite in psilocybin. So basically it's like it's an additional, it's like a different pathway to get the psilocybin. And so what happened is um there were a bunch of brands, they were selling these chocolates and and and gummies and things like that containing these pro this this this substance that wasn't strictly illegal. But once the substance degraded either on the store shelves or in a consumer's hands or in a police officer's hands, it could test positive for something that is federally scheduled. And so we watched this kind of market blow up really quickly, and then we also saw it kind of collapse because people were like, oh, we can't sell this, it's illegal. And so then what happened is a number of laboratories in the country started trying to make other analogs that did not have that same issue of becoming an illegal illegal substance, um, which is specifically silocin, which is for H O DMT. And so what um basically there were a number of labs doing that. We were talking to them, like we were we were friendly with them. And a lot of those laboratories, what they were doing is they were saying, well, we're going to, you know, come up with another compound, we're going to utilize a different compound. And um, and when we sell it, we're not gonna tell people what it is, so that they can't get in trouble for it, so we don't have any like weird legal repercussions, which I, I and my partner Judd, were like, that's not okay. Like you have to tell people what they're consuming. Like, um, you like it especially because one, it's not illegal, but secondly, because like people have a right to know what they're consuming. If they think they're consuming organic mushrooms and it's not mushrooms, they should know. And if it's and in and also like if they consume it and they, let's say they have a bad reaction and they need to go to the hospital, it's not okay for them to not know what they've consumed. Because, like, a you know, like a medical professional needs to be able to understand what's going on in someone's body. And so, um, so with that, we kind of watched this kind of industry doing this thing where they were like, hey, consumable products, we're gonna keep calling them magic mushroom products, but we're not going to explicitly tell people what they are. And we were like, there's no, that's not okay. Like, we're going to do what we will, like, we're gonna, we're gonna show people the right way, which is what I I think Judd and I have a strong kind of uh compass in our own lives about how we uh how we choose to do things, which is like, you know, I want to show, I want to tell people, hey, you should do this, you should do this, but but then I just stop telling them and I just show them. I just do the thing the way I want it done, and I prove it. I prove that this is the best way to do it. And so, you know, that's that's been Judd's philosophy that's been mine. And so what we did is we started uh putting together some some great chemists, putting together a laboratory to produce uh 4-HOMET, which was our preferred version of a psilocybin analog. And um, and so 4-HOMET is very, very, very structurally similar to uh to psilocin or for 4-HO uh DMT. And 4-HOMET, or we call it mitocin, is um, it was actually developed in the 1970s because there was a famous chemist named Sasha Shulgin, whom we have to thank for the resurgence of MDMA, for the development of 2CB, and for a number of other compounds. But Sasha Shulgin in the 70s produced a number of um synthetic um analogs of psilocybin and them. And so we we you know read through his book, we went, you know what, I think we can make this, we had a chemist make this, and we said, this is what we're gonna do. And then the other thing we're going to do is we're going to tell people what it is. We're not going to hide behind euphemisms, we're not going to hide behind, you know, claiming that it's something that it's not. We're going to explicitly put that on the packaging. We're going to explicitly tell people what to expect. Um, and we're not going to like even pretend that it's not for human consumption. We are going to say, like, you take this much to feel this. And so we uh so that's how we came out with our first product. So our first product is Zoom, X U M. And as you can like and say if you understand like the shroom, if you look at our shroom logo, it has the U with the two dots, it's a smiley face, because we figured shrooms make you giggle and smile. And then Zoom is in the same style, X U M, the U is a smiley face. So it's kind of like our branding is this smiley face to kind of remind people that this is supposed to be a positive thing. This is supposed to be like a you know a fun, playful, approachable, like enjoyable thing. And then um, so then we released, yeah. So Zoom came out in April of last year, and we were the first product out there to say explicitly, we are Mitocin, we are for H O M E T. Here are the lab results proving its purity, here are the lab results proving that that's the only thing in our product. Um, and so you know, we we we got to know laboratory, like uh testing, third-party testing labs, and we actually, you know, sent them our stuff and and had their them send their results, and we published those results. Um, and so we released that in so that's basically the journey of how that all came about is like we went from from growing and we still do have grow bags and liquid culture, but then we moved into Zoom or Mitocin, and that was kind of our journey there because we realized, you know, it our goal, our goal at the end of the day. Like we we we said that you know, with with shroom, we said like growing shrooms now radically simple. But you know, ultimately our mission as a company is to make meaningful experiences more accessible. And you know, for a while, right? Right, like that's that's how we that's how we say it. So it's like we we want to make meaningful experiences more accessible. And so in it for a few years, that was, you know, here's the meaningful experience of growing your own mushrooms and being able to like grow it from you know mycelium all the way to the mushroom that you consume and you know where it came from and you know that it's good and you get to have that experience. And now with mitocin, you're able to have what is what is physically very, very, very similar to a psilocybin mushroom trip. Um there are some slight differences in the experience. Um, it tends to be a bit more lucid, it's more bioavailable, so it kicks in faster. Uh it tends to have less indication, like a less nausea and body load.

SPEAKER_03 15:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:54

Um, but these sorts of things kind of like these are just kind of minor little improvements that happen when you're like dealing with something on a chemical level instead of dealing with the entourage effect of like, you know, mushroom material and chitin and all these other other things. Um but that's basically like how that all kind of came about, is like we're making meaningful experiences more accessible. And to do so, we we have this product, Mitocin now, which makes it very easy to get that experience that is very similar to mushrooms, um, that that will bring you that openness and that and that love and that that that joy and that trip and that visual, that all those things that you're expecting from mushrooms, but in a really simple um we sell them in like tablets or soft gels. And uh, and when you have that experience, you just then then it's it's it's clearly defined, it's clear, it's consistent dosage, it's testable dosage, it's explicitly stated as to what it is, and then it's easy to share with your friends and not be ashamed of it or afraid of it or worry that, hey, is this batch gonna be as good as the last batch? Because it always is.

SPEAKER_00 16:57

Oh, awesome, awesome. And what I really, really like about uh zoom trip.com, like xumtrip.com, is that it it walks it is such a good website as far as it walks people through uh the uh if you if this is gonna be your first experience. You can get a starter pack uh and um and then with that starter pack you can you can see you can test it out, you know, just one tab to be light, two tab, you know, uh two for m moderate three to elevate, uh four for for therapy. Yeah. And and I I think that's marvelous because there are so many people that are absolutely terrified by that that they are uh because again, you know, they they think of the Hollywood movie rendition of you know the the the the experience of of being on a psychedelic is uh uh going into Willy Wonka's factory. You know, it's uh really quite is not it. You know, the the the trip is between your own two eyes, or between your own two ears and behind your eyes. Uh but it is uh it is very good. Uh and the other thing too is that you know these these things that work with our body chemistry and our minds may be, and I'm not uh telling our listeners that it is the answer, but uh there's a Marine Corps combat veteran named M Matt Metzger who uh introduced the idea of microdosing for uh Marines, well any anybody that had uh post-traumatic uh stress disorder. And because they have been absolutely ruining uh some of our veterans with uh with all these other medications that they're throwing at them. And um yeah, I just hope that I hope that you know even if if somebody's out there that they're they're struggling and stuff, maybe maybe, you know, it's not for everybody, but maybe this is something that if you're you're uh uh looking at you might want to just dip uh dip your toe into and see if it helps you out. Um anyway. Yeah. Anyway, this is I mean, these are really cool. And now you have um uh well not only do you have the uh the zoom, you also have uh in your pleur?

SPEAKER_01 19:25

Uh pleur.

SPEAKER_00 19:27

Plur, okay. And uh and it's beyond Molly. And um and of course I am uh I I am Generation Jones, which is uh people mistakenly think of me as a between the boomers and the eggs, yeah. And uh and so we we definitely uh knew the shrooms, but it was uh Molly was uh much after our time. So uh we we we didn't have that that uh that that experience. So um what you what would you say is the the difference for people that uh want that the two products uh in the yeah uh yeah well the thing is so they so it's uh like and here's the thing, I'm gonna compare shrooms and molly because like like um experientially we're talking about like compounds that are so similar to those things that like I it's just it's easier to kind of compare like what shrooms and what moly are like and then and then uh and then like zoom and plur are these you know analogs for this.

SPEAKER_01 20:26

But you know, shrooms in general, and you you have this experience, but shrooms in general, uh um what's really what I find really interesting about shrooms is that uh shrooms and mitosin and and com and tryptomines in general have a tendency to kind of they basically take down our filters, um, which MDMA also does, but that's gonna be a separate thing. Like uh so zoom, zoom and shrooms and things like that tend to kind of take down our filters. And they take down our filters in the way that we sort information in this world. Because if you really think about like, you know, when you're born and you just like, you know, you're a baby and you experience the world, you're a child, you experience the world, and like you don't know what's important or what's not, right? So everything just kind of comes at you. And as you grow as a human being, you you start to go, okay, I don't need to pay attention to these various stimuli in my environment. And like, and you you start to filter out things so that you can be a productive member of society and you do your homework or you do your job or you do your whatever, like whatever responsibilities you have, right? You filter out the rest of the world. And that's gonna be this is this is one way that like it's very necessary for us to be functional in the world. But the thing is, is that you know, as they like, you know, there's lots of jokes about like you need to stop and smell the roses. And what what what psilocybin tends to do, what what shrooms tend to do, what Zoom tends to do, is it kind of takes down that little filter where you just like you you go, hey no, I gotta focus on my work, I gotta focus on my responsibility. And it takes down that little filter, so you stop and smell the roses. And I I mean that like literally and and and kind of uh and m metaphorically is that. You you just find yourself suddenly like, okay, now, okay, my my pupils are dilating, light a little bit more light is coming into my eyes, and I am feeling more like aware of everything around me. I'm aware of the the breeze on my skin. I'm aware of things around me that I normally don't the way that the carpet is soft, the way that, you know, the the the this around me is the people around me. I actually care, you know, I I'm I'm not filtering them out as much. I want to hear what they have to say. I want to, I want to listen and I want to speak. And the what what happens with psilocybin and with products like this on Zoom is is people like your your filter comes away and you return to a more childlike state. And and this is this is usually in your in your in your moderate to higher doses. In lower doses, we just find that um uh we we find this it this happens in tiny amounts in ways that tend to help people actually focus and help people with like um uh there's there's a there's definitely an application for this in uh in very small of what we call microdoses that is that is not quite as present as what I'm describing here. But when you take one, two, three, four and up of these of these doses, you find yourself kind of in this somewhat childlike state where you where you just become more appreciative of what of what's kind of going on around you. And it can be a really good space in which you find that you kind of like you you you can process stuff. Um and you can kind of so a lot of people find that if they take higher doses, they'll find themselves kind of in an emotional uh space of wanting to process like you know, hurt feelings or or traumas or things like that. And they can be kind of scary because people will sometimes like, you know, they'll take a very large dose and they'll they'll find themselves recalling a trauma that they've been kind of filtering out of their heads, and then they're like, oh shit, I'm dealing with this thing. And that can be a hard experience if they is again, this is like higher doses, yeah. But but then what people find is this healing experience of like of they get through it, they go, Oh, I'm thinking about it, I'm kind of I'm processing it, and now I'm actually processing it, and now I've left it behind me.

SPEAKER_03 24:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:14

And so that's what's so valuable at like at l especially at larger doses or moderate doses of of these kind of tryptamine specifically, is it typically reverts you to a childlike state, but kind of like a almost like a pre-wounded state, if you will. And and so it gives you kind of this place in which you can handle, you know, either processing traumas and harm and things or or just processing like just life in a different way, kind of like giving yourself an extra like a new way to kind of perceive things. And so your neural pathways are not just going in their normal direction. And it can give people a lot of creative focus, a lot of productive, like it kind of changes your perspective, and it can keep you out of a rut. It can help you in in these various like kind of like cerebral ways, but also emotional ways.

SPEAKER_03 25:06

Right.

SPEAKER_01 25:06

So that right there is just shrooms. And like, and then we have Molly, but I just talked a lot.

SPEAKER_00 25:14

So like Take a breath.

unknown 25:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:19

So take a breath, take a sip of my water.

SPEAKER_00 25:21

There you are. Yeah, because I I was gonna say, um, and I'm just gonna give you a little break from talking for a little bit. If people want to know more about like these chemicals and the experiences and stuff, they can go into um the what I call the catacombs of uh vice. And there's a show called Hamilton's Pharmacopia. And it is a fantastic show. It really is. I I absolutely uh uh uh loved it, loved it. And Hamilton Morris, who is the uh man that was behind this, the executive producer, and uh he actually was the one that was going through all these things, but he also has all the degrees and everything else that goes with it. So uh if anybody is terrible.

SPEAKER_01 26:06

That's great, we know him.

SPEAKER_00 26:07

Yeah. Oh, you do? Oh my god. I I this is I okay. Is there anybody you don't know? I mean, this is incredible. You've got the who's who.

SPEAKER_01 26:20

Hamilton's wonderful. We actually um uh uh Judd was on Hamilton's podcast, actually. You can you can go check that out. So he uh he has a podcast and Judd was on it. So my God you can actually find it. Um there there is a long conversation about John McAfee on that podcast, but that's uh they do get into it, they talk about the lab quite a bit. So um uh but anyway, anyway, so yeah no Hamilton Hamilton's amazing and he like he's really gone gone uh I love what he did with Vice. Like he really he really kind of deep dives into these things and he takes those things on camera. Like he he he's like I'm gonna learn about this substance and now I'm gonna take it on camera and I'm gonna be really real about what the experience is like and I'm gonna, you know, I wanna I wanna visit the indigenous village where this this you know thing came from.

SPEAKER_03 27:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:06

Uh he's great. Um anyway, so so Molly or MDMA. Uh Molly or MDMA or um uh or you know, ecstasy. We you know, these are these are terms to describe this this this thing. It was very popular in the 80s and 90s. Um and so MDMA is the original compound that people are familiar with. And and uh in the 80s and stuff, there was a lot of MDMA that was cut with other cut with uh stimulants, and so that's what we typically consider it to be ecstasy, which is like like the so you'd have this MDMA experience combined Sorry, my my uh my Alexa has decided to talk in the background, I apologize. Um so uh so anyway, so so MDMA would be often cut with um uh with a stimulant and it would cause people to go dancing and hugging and loving and just having a great time. And uh and so um so that's what we we commonly know as ecstasy. And then um, and then especially in like the 90s and 2000s, people started wanting this to to not be cut with other things, and so um we often refer to MDMA uh when it's pure, uh, and this is just like literally in, you know, in in kind of the under underground drug culture, is we typically refer to Molly as like the the form of MDMA that was purest. And that's it's it also didn't didn't mean anything because when you at the end of the day, like when you get something from a from some guy in a backpack at a rave, you know, you're like, is this pure? Like, yeah, it's totally pure. And like it's not like you have any way of knowing that. Um, but you know, people would typically say like MDMA was gonna be less overstimulating Molly, uh like um like the the Molly would be that less overstimulating MDMA. And so that was kind of like what was out there, and um, and so 5 M EPB was developed as an analog. Uh, it has slightly different chemical responses in your brain. So, what MDMA does, to be like fully clear, is when MDMA it gets into your body, um, it it's a serotonin releaser. And so what it's gonna do is like your nor and your neurons store serotonin in your body. And like, and and uh and and what your body uses serotonin for is it uses it for your mood, for your appetite, and for your circadian rhythm. And so basically your sleep, your hunger, and your and and your mood or your like just your the general, like those three things are what are basically controlled by the amount of serotonin you have, which is why people sometimes when they have depression and they have like a lack of serotonin will find it hard to sleep, or they will sleep too much, or they they can't eat, or or or or they um uh or they're just they're sad, right? These these things are interconnected and people don't realize. But uh, but then what'll happen is so our neurons store serotonin and normally in our in our in our bodies and our lives, our neurons are always gently leaking out a little bit of serotonin, and that causes us to regulate our like our circadian rhythm and our hunger and our mood. And um, and so what happens is when you take MDMA, basically that reservoir of serotonin that gently leaks out all the time is instead like the dam is open and all of the serotonin floods out at once. And what that causes in your body is this overwhelming feel of joy, this overwhelming feel of empathy and connection and love, and it feels fucking amazing. And you feel it roll over your body, which is why people call uh they could they call like uh Molly, they call it like they call it rolling, like instead of tripping like you want a tryptamine, you roll on this. And so you feel these like waves of pleasure come over your body, and um and then what it what what you have is basically a four-hour window in which your body is like, oh, I've got all this serotonin. I feel so connected. And so in that time, uh you typically will find that like that it's a it's a very tactical, uh very very tactile drug. So you basically feel very like tactily stimulated. You want to touch things, you want to hug things, you want to feel things. This is soft, this is cushy, this is you know, you're you're you're the people around you you want to touch and connect with them. Um and so you get this kind of overwhelming feeling of love and connection and empathy with with people around you, both through physical touch and through just like just the feeling, the feeling the hearts towards them, you know, it's just it's this really, really, really overwhelming joy. And um, and then what we find is that people, you know, when they take MDMA, the there's a couple of things that happen is that you know, you're feeling this overwhelming joy, you're feeling this overwhelming love towards other people. Um it's it's kind of contagious. So like I I can be sober with people on Molly, and you just like you just start grinning next to those people because they're so and so like, oh, I just want to tell you how much I love you, or I just want to hug you, and you're just like, wow, I I feel what you're feeling like I get it. Like I, you know, I get a little contact eye from that. And um, what what's really interesting is what this does on a on on another level for people is it like it allows people to connect and talk, right? And so a lot of people can do talk therapy on this. MDMA was originally uh uh used as a um as a marriage counseling drug because you could give it to two people who are having maritable marital disputes, and it brings you to a place of like you're vulnerable, you're not defensive, and you're and you're acting out of love, and you can say like I love you, but this hurts, or I love you, but like, but but I'm struggling here. And you get to this place where you don't, you feel so much love that you don't feel like you're being attacked as you as you talk through your your hurt or your feelings or your or your whatever, and you also are putting people into this space where you're like, I know that you mean the best, even though you know, something you said hurt me or something you did, you know, made me feel a particular way. And so it allows people to like really bond and connect. And uh and so and it's also really valuable because when you're on MDMA, it's also very hard to imagine bad things. It's really hard to, you know, if you're if you uh this this is the thing that's been really interesting, is that they that they're looking at MDMA as a solution for PTSD for people like soldiers in war. Because to be able to talk through it while they're have this flood of love is enabling them to basically put up a barrier between, you know, reliving that experience. Like when you when you take shrooms, the filter's gone in a way that like might make that experience more there, it might make it more present, it might make it more raw, and you might be like in your head remembering the sounds and the and the and the experiences you were having. Whereas with MDMA, you you can't touch them. And so you can't touch that hurt, and as a result, you're not overwhelmed by it, and you can talk through it and you can like and you can get to a healthier place from it in a in a really, really valuable way. And so that's what's really cool is like that medical application. But the fact is, is that for human beings taking these drugs, like when you take MDMA, you're getting this kind of it's like it's a different, it's a different thing. We call it an empathogen because you just feel this empathy and this love for yourself, for everyone around you. And I mean it it's literally like it's my favorite feeling in the world. And it's it's it's just like it's it's such a a it's a pleasurable feeling. And and then you come away from it with this kind of glow of like, okay, now I need to, like now, now I need to like think about like that, that those things that I that I, you know, I said I loved, or the things that like the the way that I pulled from this pool of love that I didn't know I had, and it was felt like overflowing, and I was sharing it with everyone around me. You know, I was feeling all this love and I wanted to give it to everyone around me. Like, how do I remember that? How do I do that when I'm not in that state? And it's really like it can be a really beautiful, incredible, life-changing experience for people. Um and so that's MDMA, and then 5 MAPB is the compound that we use, and it's almost it's it's virtually indistinguishable in experience. Um, the only difference is that chemically, as it does serotonin releasing, it also uh it also provides an agonizer for serotonin, which allows your body to recoup serotonin faster. Because the one downside of MDMA that people will sometimes experience is what we call the, we used to call it like the Tuesday blues, which is that like you take ecstasy all weekend, and then the next couple of days you're feeling drained because your serotonin is gone and your body's going, What the fuck? I need to eat, I need to sleep, and I need to not be sad. And where's all my serotonin? And um, and so that's the one downside of MDMA is that you can have a couple of days where your body's recouping serotonin and it doesn't have enough and you're feeling really down. And 5MABB has a function in it, there's a serotonin agonist in it, which allows your your body to kind of use instead of using all your serotonin up, it's also treating the 5MABB like serotonin. And as a result, you you don't use up all your serotonin. So your your come down and your recoup is faster because you've still got some left.

SPEAKER_00 36:48

Awesome. Awesome. Now uh this brings me to my question about one of your other products. It is the flipped soft gel. Tell me about that.

SPEAKER_01 37:01

Um so what we did with flip is um so there's a common thing in like rave community and like and and and psychedelic community in general, which is we call these flips is um so like a uh like um a candy flip is considered LSD and MDMA together.

SPEAKER_03 37:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 37:18

And then a uh a hippie flip is considered shrooms and mdma together. And so there's all these different I think uh 2CB and MDMA together is called a Nixus flip. There's like a bunch of different terms for these things. But the idea is that by by taking your trip and your role together, you like you you get this really interesting experience of both things. And so um, so the flip is it's a hundred milligrams of 5 MAPB, which is enough to basically produce the um it's it's that is that is like a an enough to get you to your your proper role state where you're like, okay, I am rolling, I am feeling this, like this, these overwhelming feelings of pleasure. And then the amount of uh the amount of um mitosin in it is equivalent to four of our tablets, which is equivalent to two grams of shrooms. And so this is not like a I'm going to an intense, like talk to God trip like level. It's more of a, it's like not transcendent, but it is it is enough that you will have like fractal visuals, you will have these these kinds of things that are that are more in the in the in the trip space instead of just in the role space. And so combining the two, I find that it tends to make the the the the role a little bit like more like it's it gives it a cerebralness that I uh that I feel like sometimes Molly can just be like, I just love everything. And like, and sometimes you're like you're not thinking, like you are thinking about a lot, but like sometimes you're like, I don't need to think about that, everything's good. And like I feel like the the the shroom part of it, the zoom part of it, gives you this kind of like contemplation around it, which is really, really beneficial. And it has these fun visuals. And then one of the things that can happen with shrooms, um, like if you just take shrooms, is I sometimes joke that like sometimes there's like a dose of shrooms where you get what I call, like I just say you get weird, like where you feel somewhat self-conscious and you feel, and this can be a very good thing. You can feel self-conscious and it makes you start to think about like your discomfort and where you need to grow and what you need to think about. Like, well, like what do I need to fix in myself and what do I need to heal and what do I need to work on? And and so it can be rough sometimes when you take a dose of zoom that or shrooms that gets you to this what I call the weird space where you have to kind of like figure out what you're doing with it.

SPEAKER_03 39:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:46

And I feel like when you mix the molly with it, you get to like, you get to go, hey, I can be self-conscious and weird and and feel and feel a lot of strange things, but everything's okay. And like that, the molly kind of comes in with this, like, everything's okay, bro. Like everything's good. And like, and the shrooms are like everything's interesting and weird. And it's like everything's okay and interesting and weird. And so I feel like it really gives you this, like, this really this way to kind of process both things simultaneously. And um, and that that is a that is a very like um reasonable, like non-transcendent dose. Um, I have also mixed like taking a transcendent amount, taking six or seven tablets worth of mitocin with uh with pleur, with, with, uh, with 5 maybe B. And when you put those two together, like you definitely go into a much deeper space that can be very that that um that I wouldn't recommend for beginners, so to speak.

unknown 40:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 40:45

Yeah. I love that you have the uh the liquid uh the uh what do I want to call the soft gels? Um the uh for the pleur, it's the cuddle pack the cuddle puddle pack.

unknown 40:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 41:00

And then for the uh zoom, it's the ceremony pack. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:06

We um so because that's the thing is we what we do is just so so that your your listeners know, is like we sell these products like so Zoom is sold. There's a there's a four-pack, that's like a nice like amount for like a concert or like a party or something. And then we also sell a 10-pack, so that's like 10 tablets in a jar, and that's really more than one dose. That's like that's a dose and a half, basically. I mean, some people go all the way, but they don't they don't need to, but it but it allows you to like the 10-pack jar is the equivalent of five grams of shrooms, and it allows you to titrate your dose. You can say, I want to take seven of them and go in to transcendental space, or I could break them into quarters and I could microdose them every day for a month. And um, and then we also sell what we call the transcend uh uh soft gel, and the transcend soft gel is the equivalent of seven tablets in one single dose. So, like you take that, you swallow that, and you go into a transcendental space. And so then what we did is we um we decided to release the first thing we did is it was before Burning Man last year. We released the community pack, which was a hundred of our tablets. Um, so each each tablet is roughly equivalent to half gram of shrooms, and um, and we released a hundred tablets and we called it a community pack because some people were like, I want to buy this, but I don't want all this extra packaging. I want to buy a lot of it and I want to share it with my friends and family. I want to share it with my Burning Man crew, I want to share it, you know, at a party or festival or a concert or whatever. And so we made the community pack, and then people said, Hey, you know, this transcendent dose, I want to have a party where everyone's gonna do a transcendent dose. And so we were like, well, we call it a community pack of transcend. And we were like, nope, we're gonna call it a ceremony pack because we want it to, we want to give it the respect that it deserves. You know, it's it's something where like it's really, it is a really deep, like, like um, it is gonna be a deep, like it's a ritual. Like I just felt ritual was a little bit too culty. So ceremony felt uh a little a little bit better with that. So we we decided on ceremony as the term, and then um, and then color, so then, so those are the the two uh the two ones for for zoom products, and then on the the pleur side basically, we have our soft gels, which are 25 milligrams, which allow you to, if you want to take a small dose of them all, if you want to take like 75 milligrams, or if you want to take, you know, six, if you want to take six pills, it's like 150 milligrams. You can decide how you want to dose. And so we made uh, and and then we also have our immerse soft gels, which is literally 100 milligrams in a single soft gel. And so what we did is we have our cuddle puddle pack and our festival pack. So our cuddle puddle pack is 10 immersed soft gels, so that like you can have 10 people and they can all take it and all have a good time. Or the festival pack is 50 booster soft gels. So you can like you can say, hey, let's all take you know, three to four or five or six of these, and like, and you can you can easily like you can get like again around 10 friends or so to to be able to have that experience. um and and altogether. So um so yeah so we we came up with playful names for them like the festival pack, the cuddle puddle pack, the ceremony pack, and the community pack. We uh we've had some very fun, we've had a lot of fun naming these things.

SPEAKER_00 44:12

Oh yeah. The marketing is fantastic. And if our listeners go to uh zoom trip.com they'll see that there are there is a sale going on currently uh for some of the products uh selected products have uh 25% off so it is now the time to to try this out if you've found this uh conversation interesting you you've been thinking about this for a while you've wanted to experiment uh a little bit uh you've wanted to kind of do a self-dive uh this is the time to do it and again folks go to zoom trip at xumtrip.com well thank you so much obvious and I hope we get to hear more from you uh later on in the uh in the near future and um maybe maybe when we get everything set up in Nashville we can have you all come out and and visit us for a little bit that'd be that'd be very fun and we love we love uh we love sharing you know these products we have we have more things on the horizon and I think uh for people who are interested in in exploring zoom exploring you know the benefits of shrooms the benefits of of of mdma these are a way to do so legally this is this is not a federally neither of these are federally scheduled compounds so people can people can check them out and and uh and they can explore them and uh and they're safe we give test results so you know what you're consuming um and you can and you can look at the chronic contraindications if you have like other medications you're on or something you just want to like make sure that they're safe.

SPEAKER_01 45:39

And it just that's for us it's like we want to make an informed populace and we want to show people that like these things do not have to be scary. They can be beautiful and they can be incredible but you have to get them from good sources. You have to test them you have to know what you're getting and we are doing our best to try to have a fully informed populace so that you can make because your body and your mind are your own and you have every right to make whatever choices you want with them. And the the the really the hard thing about drug laws is like besides the fact that they criminalize you know peaceful activity is that um when these things are illegal people can't be explicitly clear about them. They they mix them with things they they might paint them with things. You don't know maybe they're fine but you don't know and this right here is is about safety it's about it's about your peace of mind your security as a person and so yeah that's what we're trying to do. We love it. I'm so glad that you wanted to learn about it and and uh and and tell your audience about it. Um but we're happy to you know we're happy to keep doing this zoom trip.com we're uh we're gonna keep we're gonna keep like pushing pushing the the limits and the boundaries to show people to show people that this this these are meaningful experiences and they deserve to be more accessible and we'll do everything we can to do that. And I just want my audience to know it does not break the bank either their starter pack is um well it's $29 yeah so uh uh a a cup of coffee in sea Seattle Yeah well that's and that's the thing we really wanted to make this accessible um you know a a uh you know this is this is very it's very comparable to street prices for similar drugs to be perfectly honest like it's it's uh it might be slightly more because we're we're testing it and we're doing all these other things but like but the fact is like for you know for for twenty to thirty dollars you are getting yourself a dose like you're getting yourself a proper dose of something to try and you're not getting it from a sketchy guy named Chud yeah exactly exactly it's uh it's a it's you know it's it's it's in you know we're very proud of our packaging um it's very like we we have little like they're almost in these these little like tool cases with like like with magnetic with magnets that hold them together like we we didn't want to have packaging that was like overly cartoony or like overly like we didn't want to appeal to children. We wanted it to be like no like this is this is just something that like that that this is for you to enjoy this is for you to share with your friends it's not embarrassing it's not awkward it's not like it's not gonna be some weird like a bunch of like tripped out Alice in Wonderland graphics or whatever. Like it's gonna be like you're melting whatever like it's it's like this is this is here to be a professional beautiful experience that that people can can enjoy. That's what we're here to do.

SPEAKER_02 48:19

Yeah with a smiley face to to show you that it's approachable it's accessible and it's you've nothing to hear and that's that's it the flame hear the morning crack voices clear unaframe Never looking back podcast in the kitchen radio in the car videos on the rooftop Trump streaming from afar questions the news letters in the land like tea reason to find like freestyle just down the hall we build with words and stories with arguments and grace the meeting of the many every thing just the mic and open just the whole