Arts Garden Ep 3: Grief on Stage, Circus Process & Comedy Truths

This episode of Arts Garden dives head-first into Adelaide Fringe season, with conversations spanning grief, circus, comedy, and the realities of making creative work sustainable.

We’re joined first by Melissa and Connor from CRAM Collective, who introduce their new Fringe work Meteors. Developed through a residency at The Mill, the show explores how young people experience grief; the silences around it, the awkward kindness of casseroles and lasagnes, and the long journey that begins after the funeral. Drawing on lived experience, Meteors makes space for grief that is tender, funny, unresolved, and deeply human. The conversation touches on ritual, memory, care, and why grief doesn’t disappear; it changes shape.

We also hear from Eva Seymour, Melbourne actor and writer, bringing her acclaimed solo show The Understudy to Adelaide Fringe. Eva reflects on the strange psychological territory of being perpetually “almost on stage”: the tension between gratitude and frustration, waiting and ambition, and what happens when an artist puts their life on hold for something outside their control. The discussion moves through acting, writing, theatre versus screen, and the freedom (and terror) of making solo work.

Later in the episode, we speak with the full lineup behind The Diversity Quota, a sharp, self-aware stand-up showcase interrogating representation, identity, and workplace culture. The comedians discuss how the show came together, why comedy is uniquely suited to tackling taboo topics, and how leaning into awkwardness can create something generous rather than tokenistic.

Finally, the episode features a conversation with Lachlan Binns from Gravity & Other Myths, reflecting on growing up in circus, touring internationally, and presenting two Fringe shows this year: The Mirror and Ten Thousand Hours. Lachlan talks about mastery, repetition, technology, play, and why the process behind a spectacular moment can be more interesting than the moment itself.

Across the episode, Arts Garden explores:

• how artists sit with grief and uncertainty
• why Fringe matters for new and risky work
• the labour behind creative excellence
• and what it means to keep choosing art in difficult conditions

Guests:
CRAM Collective (Melissa & Connor) · Eva Seymour · The Diversity Quota · Lachlan Binns (Gravity & Other Myths)

Recorded on: Arts Garden, 3D Radio 93.7FM

Transcript

[00:00:00] welcome everyone to the Arts Garden for the 2nd of February. It's. Being February, it's less than I think, 16 days until I see my first fringe show, because there's previews and things. So just over two weeks and, uh, we're gonna be, uh, very much exploring the fringe tonight. Uh, I've recorded, uh, some interviews with, uh, gravity and other myths that are doing two shows at the Fringe, the Mirror, and also 10,000 hours.

We spoke with all four members of the diversity quota, a very, uh, funny. Standup Comedy Showcase at Kalu. And uh, also had an interview with Eva Seymour, who's an actress from Melbourne, bringing a show called The Understudy to the Fringe as well. But kicking us off, uh, Bromwyn and I are gonna be speaking with Melissa and Connor from the Cram Collective.

So welcome into the studio. We are all here ready to speak. Thanks for having us. My pleasure and uh, our pleasure and yeah, so Cram Collective have been doing great things over the years [00:01:00] and setting up the Cram hub, but also, uh, working on the 48 hour film project and heading overseas, uh, as part of that, but producing original theater work and you're creating a new, uh, you pre presenting a new work, a meteor yours at this year's fringe.

But can you catch up people up to speed with how the Cram Collective formed? It's two of you and one other member. Yeah, so we, uh, originally there was four of us, um, one's now off in London doing amazing things. We all went to drama center together and we kind of went, hold up. We really like making work together.

Let's keep doing this. Yeah. So, uh, I trained as a director and the two three actors approached me and we came together and formed the Cram Collective. And since then we've been making original work. Here I was expecting you to say something about, you know, we had exams and we were all really freaking out 'cause we were cramming.

No, the name came from, uh, the initials of our name, Connor Ren, arid and Melissa. Um, but we [00:02:00] also say that we like to cram the most exciting and daring creatives into a room together when we make work. Fantastic. And, uh, with the, the cramming process this time around, it started with a bit of a, a residency at the mill as well.

Uh. Before we work, uh, work our way around to the content of the show. We were talking before we came on air about how great having a space like the mill is to create content and uh, the access to the space and things like that. Can you share some of that conversation with our audience? Yeah, absolutely.

So we are lucky enough to have the center stage residency at the mill, which is uh, four weeks development, and then ends in a presentation of a fringe. Uh, show. Um, so we're very lucky. This is the second residency now we've had at the mill. We made an entirely original show with 10 creatives last time called The Future to You, which was actually all about climate change and that what the world looks like for the next, um, generation of people.

And now we're here making meteor yours. [00:03:00] So is a residency, does that mean, does that mean you've got the space for free with no fees? Are you paid at all to be there? So they, um, give us the space and then you also receive a fee. That means you can pay your creatives, um, and also put money towards the project itself.

And, you know, it's just a, a lot easier to get work off the ground. Oh, wonder when you have that backing. Isn't it great when things are around like that? Good on them. Good on you. The mill. Fantastic. And, you know, you talked about your previous show exploring climate change, and again, with meteors, exploring a very.

Important theme, which is grief and young people dealing, uh, with grief. And, you know, that process that is, you know, so, you know, we see it happening to other people, but then when it happens to us, you know, sometimes before it happens, we think, oh, that only happens to other people. And then when you're in it, uh, that's when you fully, uh, realize the scope of it.

Uh, and, you know, having a show like this and exposing young people to it is so important. Exactly. I think you really hit the nail on the head there. Um, we've both experienced grief. We both lost our [00:04:00] moms, and I lost my mom when I was 20 and I think I kind of looked around and went. No one knows what to say and it's a real, it can almost be taboo.

And I think there's something in like, we wanna open these conversations because grief is universal and as ha, as hard as it can be, it is something that we are all gonna experience in life and we wanna share these conversations, um, because there's so much talk about loss, loss and, but there's also love in that.

And it's really important that we share these conversations. Y Yeah, definitely. And, you know, in, in the description of the show, and IMI, I know when my dad died, one of my most vivid memories is my auntie turning up and, you know, she started crying as soon as they opened the door, but she was holding, you know, some food that she'd cooked.

And that's just like the universal thing that people don't know what to do, but they know, oh, they're not gonna want to cook, so we'll bring some food around for them. That's something we've definitely found, um, in the, the first development we did a showing and it was amazing. People afterwards were like, oh, I know that.

Yeah. Like, I've had that [00:05:00] experience. Or I had lasagna, or I had soup. I was, I quite like the title in the relation to. Grief. You don't often really think of meteors, but I can imagine this thing coming in, is it because it's this image of this sink coming in and just landing splat on your life or I think, yeah, I think it's got a few different layers.

Um, it, one thing we've talked about is like the crater that is left when you lose someone in your life. Sure. That there is a real loss and it's a hit Yeah, sure. To the system. Absolutely. Um. But there's a lot of imagery in the show where Melissa has talked about how space is so, um, mysterious and, and, um, vast, vast and unknown.

Um, and I think that's something I was really keen to explore hand in hand with grief, because as well, since losing my mom, I did start looking up, um, maybe for answers or for a sign from her, I'm not sure. Yeah, and definitely, and I think it's one of the aspects of [00:06:00] grief that we struggle with so much now is that, you know, once upon a time, you know, speaking about the meteor theme, we'd have like a shooting star and believing, oh, when, when someone dies, there's a shooting star and believing in that kind of.

More spiritual and bigger kind of connection and you know, re religion being a comfort and things like that. And then when we're in a world where not everyone might have that now, but you know, when we go through times like that, we are looking for something, you know, some comfort and reassurance and, you know, it's, it's much harder when we don't have as many tools.

Community doesn't speak or have like rituals or practices as much as we once did as well. Absolutely. We talked a lot about ritual and, um, how we grieve as a society and how young people might not know that. Like the first funeral that I went to was my mom's funeral. Mm-hmm. You know, I'd never, I never even knew.

I didn't know how it works or what we do in that space until you're thrown into it. Mm. What struck me one time when I was experienced grief as well, for the same time for the first [00:07:00] time, similarly, she can't make it, it go away. Mm. You can't just. Ignore it. Yeah. And it will go away 'cause it's, and you can't make it go quicker.

You can, it's not like you can take a pill or do the exercise to cram it. Yeah. You know, or something. It just, it's, you have to live it. Absolutely. And I think what we've found as well is that it, it never really goes away. It still. Is present and you walk with it, but it changes form and some days are really hard and other days you can just sit with it.

So yeah, that's kind of what we've been exploring with this show. Yeah, and I mean, I, I, I saw an expression I thought was quite accurate as well, which is, you know, it doesn't, the grief doesn't get smaller, but your capacity to carry it gets. Stronger or you get bigger to fit around it kind of thing. And so, yeah, different, oh, that's a nice image.

Yeah. So it's, it's relatively smaller because you know, you are, you know, but it's not, yeah, no, definitely. And, uh, as you are growing up, yeah, yeah. No, but you know, particularly, and as you say, with funerals, and I'm at [00:08:00] the age now where I think last year I went to two funerals with my friends. Parents kind of thing.

And just that experience of going along and you learn so much about people's lives and how they became who they were. And you know, I discovered about my friends through that process, but it just made me realize that it took the funeral to realize all those things. And we don't have those spaces in other, you know, would've been nicer to know that kind of thing earlier.

And you know, once upon a time we probably did. Yeah. Mm. Something we were talking about today as well in the rehearsal room is that the funeral itself feels like the climax of your grief, but often it's only just the start, like that's the first event, and then you're surrounded by loved ones, but then after that, you're often left to grieve on your own, and there's a whole journey in that that we're discovering.

Yeah. No, well definitely like. I actually found Riding Rapids really helpful. Truly, truly, because I was, you know. Didn't know what to do with all these emotions and was trying to make them go away. And then I went on a rapid [00:09:00] ride, 'cause I was at a place where they had rapids, you know, you could ride them and just all that turbulence.

Wow. And at one stage feeling like I was gonna die. It just. I just released it all. Yeah, let it out. You in a way. I felt so much better 24 hours later after like, coming off's happens and going. Well, I, I just wanna add this point. Say that, uh, disclaimer, do not, uh, follow bromwyn's advice. So, you know, do not hold us liable if you, uh, go, uh, you know, down some rapids and then, you know, I, I did it because bro wouldn't said it'll help.

Uh, excellent. But, uh. With this show I see on the fringe description that, um, a q and a and resources and additional sessions and performances and workshop incursions are available upon requests. And you can contact a school program coordinator and, you know, again, returning to that theme of exposing young people to, you know, uh.

An exploration of grief, whether they, they're going through it and they don't have people to talk to or, you know, preparing people for inevitably when they do go through it. So can you explain a little bit more about, uh, the opportunities that are available with the show? Yeah, absolutely. So being, as I experienced [00:10:00] grief as a young person, I really wanted to make.

This accessible for other young people. Um, because that's what I wanted. I wanted to reach out and see other young people struggling with grief and I couldn't find it and I couldn't find it online. Um, and so we are running school sessions. Um, we've got student tickets available so teachers can book in for a school group.

Um, and we are also really happy to do a q and a and speak about our process in making this show. Um. I've been writing the show for seven years, uh, and I think across that time my grief has shifted. Um, and we're also happy to run workshops just with us as cram how we create a work, um, how we've created this one in particular.

We're really keen to open it up to students and get that connection with young people.

Who's gonna ask the question? Did you have something in mind? No. Was ask a question. I was gonna say something, uh, at the end. So Wyn, well, I was curious to know more about your process, actually. And, and it hadn't known that you'd been writing it for seven years, but you had a one month residency. So [00:11:00] had you been writing it together before that?

And what did you do in the residence? How did you develop it? Beyond your experience. So it originally started as a self devised work at uni, and I kind of did this three minute version of it and people went, oh. There could be something in that I think you should keep working away. And so gradually, um, I would just kind of chip away and record little voice notes or write something in my notes out that I was like, that's something I wanna explore.

And I came to the rest of Cram and I said, I'd love to turn this into a show. And we got the meal residency and I finished that first script, draft of the script and that was the first residence who we kind of pulled bits apart and went, what works? What's that about? What are you trying to say here? Um, in order to form the script that you'll see on stage.

Fantastic. Did you do any exercises like, fo let's try and sit, try this and feel this in your body? Or did you do anything like that? We've tried a little bit. Um. It's been a really interesting process for me as a [00:12:00] director. How do I give feedback on someone's life story? Of course. And that's been a really interesting dynamic to, to navigate.

And I think it's having gone through grief myself, losing my mother as well. I think it's been great that we see, we've been able to see each other eye to eye and go, yep, I know what that feeling is. For me it was this, for you, it was that. Where can, how can we communicate that? Um. And that's been a lot of the process kind of unpacking our grief and talking about it and then putting it on stage in a way that's.

Accessible for others and, and, and funny and warm and beautiful and really sweet. So I was wondering if we, we should bring our tissues with, I think you should, but you should also like prepare yourself for a good laugh as well. There's a lot of funny and, um, the awkwardness of grief is explored as well, so Yeah, no, definitely.

That's one of the big misconceptions that, you know, grief iss just a hundred percent sadness and it doesn't fluctuate and go in waves and there aren't jokes at funerals and things like that. And, you know. Oh, aren't you so [00:13:00] sad that you can never joke again? And all these different things, and it's like, well, you've gotta find ways, uh, to get through it.

No, so that's very important. Uh, show and it's at the mill. 19th of February until the 7th of March. And, uh, so a 60 minute show people can, uh, search for meteors and the Cram collective and, and look for you on social media to find more about it all as well. Uh, so thank you very much Melissa and Connor for coming in.

And I should say as well, when I posted about you coming on the show, we've got another host on 3D Radio that in their other life works, um. With the bereavement navigation service and they wanted to remind people that you can go to www.focusonhealth.com au bereavement and grief and get some navigation services there as well.

Um, so that was a good reminder and a good thing to, uh, talk about at, at the end as well. So yeah, thank you very much, uh, Melissa and Connor and we look forward to seeing the show. Thank you. And, um, excellent. Uh, now, a few weeks ago I recorded this interview with Eva Seymour, who's a, [00:14:00] a Melbourne. Actress and playwright and, uh, they've done all sorts of things. They, uh, were a graduate of Red Stitch actors and they performed at the Malthouse Theater.

They've performed in the big musical anthem. They've been on neighbors even, um, and Dear Life on Stan, but also as a writer. Her short films, superstars and Endpoint have screened at multiple Academy Award qualifying film festivals across Australia, but they're bringing their. Debut solo show the understudy here to the Adelaide Fringe at premiered last year at the Melbourne Fringe Festival to a sold out season and garnered rave reviews.

And I've been following her on social media and she's been doing lots of really funny promo videos. Really quirky. Comedy, phone, uh, promo videos that give you a bit of an indication of what to expect. Uh, but yeah, the show, as we talk about, is about the experience of being an understudy and being cast, you know, being very close to that big role, but you are the understudy and you're [00:15:00] waiting for, uh, the lead to get sick or something like that.

And, and so it's a fictional, uh, account of that experience. And so here we're gonna hear now from Eva Seymour. No researching. Fantastic. Well, enjoy the rest of the day and try to stay Cool. Thanks. You too. Alright, see you later. Bye. That was, uh, e Seymour, uh, talking about the understudy and they're gonna be at the, the den at the Dom Polsky Center from the 20th of February until the 1st of March. so this show's about being the understudy. And one of the things that struck me from, you know, you keep yourself so busy across so many different mediums, whether it be making films, writing films, musical theater, theater. Television, but also within your artistic practice.

You're a, you have martial artists skills, singing skills, yoga, rock climbing, all these. Isn't that what I've listed online? Gosh, yeah. No, no, it's [00:16:00] not on, it's not in your bio, but I, I tracked it down and it's like when you hit the stage where you are the understudy of a, of a dream role or something like that, you're, you've already done everything that's within your power and obviously so capable in so many areas.

It must be frustrating when you get to that. That point. And it's is like as, as within the show description, you're waiting for Amy to get gas show, to get, get the role and it's totally outside of your control. Yeah. And I feel like the, the thing I wanted to kind of dissect within the show is that, that kind of tension of wanting to be grateful that you have a job at all.

Like in the arts it's pretty. Pretty difficult to be in consistent work. And if you, if you can get a gig, you wanna feel grateful for it and be, be thanking everyone all the time and counting your blessings, but it's a pretty, it could be a pretty frustrating position to be off stage, just meters away from being actually able to be on the stage and do the thing that you're trained to do and that you want to do.

So, yeah, it's, it's a funny, [00:17:00] it's a funny position to be in and it's a vision position I've been in a few times and I spoke to a lot of my friends through ha. Had similar experiences to kind of pick their brains, to get some experiences to put into the show as well. So it's a very, it's a very honest investigation into the mindset of a person who experiences understudy and sort of the madness that can of you.

Yeah. As you try to justify to yourself. All of your decisions up until that point. You are Yeah, no, I was thinking about that. When you talk about the mad, like the madness and you talk about gratitude and having to be very mindful of being in that position where at the extremities, some people can go down the black swan route or the, like the absolutely on your Harding route in, in, uh, ice skating or whatever, where it, it's, no, it can.

I remember reading about the Bolshoi Ballet and some of the things that happened there, horrific things, and so yeah, totally. It can un, un unleash all sorts of emotions in people. It's funny you mention that because [00:18:00] without giving too much away, my show definitely does kind of traverse that, that route a little bit.

The, there, there might be moments where you're questioning what, what will she do to get the role, but also what it does to yourself and your sense of self when you're waiting for something to happen. You're putting off the things in your life that bring you joy because you are in that perpetual holding pattern of, of hoping and waiting for something, something outside of your control to, to, to happen to you and that possible the consequences of that.

So I kind of wanted to investigate what happens when a person becomes the understudy to themselves because the, the, the consequences of, of. Of the impact of the job and what that has on your psyche. So it does kind of go down a little bit of a fantastical, slightly horror route, which was fun to do. And I guess the liberty of theater is that you can kind of take things into a pretty weird space.

But yeah, I wanted to make it pretty non [00:19:00] naturalistic. Fantastic. And you talk about, because obviously, and we mentioned that you are a writer and you've written this as well as the last year. Releasing a short film as well. And yeah. And, but I think I saw you say that doing this show reignited your love of theater as well.

What do you love about theater compared to the other disciplines that you work in? Yeah. Yeah, hugely. I mean, first of all, it was just such a gratifying experience to have complete creative control of something. 'cause I'm an actor, so you're so often gonna go into a job and be, you're having an experience of being able to tell a story, but it's not very frequently your own story and you're being directed by people and like da da da da.

So it's very cool to be able to go like, oh, this is a story I really wanna tell. And I can change the any moment because I wrote it as well. So that was really gratifying. What I love about theater is the live experience of it and the kind of, the length of time in which you're telling a story. You're on stage for like 90 minutes or whatever it might be, and might [00:20:00] show's much shorter, you know, but so you're on stage for a very consistent time in which you're engaged in a task that that tells the story within that timeframe.

Whereas film and, and TV shows can drag out into a really like. Sort of dragged out experience when you're repeating the same scenes over and over again. I just find it personally really challenging film actors, TV actors. I take my hat off to them. They're just like able to create the same moment over and over again in a new way on set, doing the same five lines of the scene.

Like I just so completely maddening. Interesting. But I explain to him repeating a lot in fear as well. You're doing it every night, but at least you have about 24 hours to. To get it outta your system before you come back to it afresh. I just like the, yeah, the kind of the, the whole physical sort of, I don't know, absorption in the task that theater requires.

And I love having an audience feedback, having live laughter. Hopefully they laugh and like what that does to the story, especially as a one woman show, because you are the only one up [00:21:00] there and it really is a relationship between you and the audience. Like they're the two characters in the play really.

So, yeah, I love that. I love that feedback. Fantastic. And you say, I hope they laugh, but it's not the first time you've done the show 'cause you had a sellout run in Melbourne last year as well. Yeah. And so how was it received and how's the experience bringing that to the stage last year? Oh, it was awesome.

I mean, it was my first, my first venture into. Solo storytelling. I've never done it before and my first time doing my own work live 'cause has you's name. I've written film and I've written music. But yeah, doing, doing a one woman show was an entirely new experience for me and I was absolutely terrified.

The feedback was really positive and it, it made me really excited and made me sure that I wanted to bring it to Adelaide and then hopefully further afield. And also having that season, we only did a very short one. It was just four shows, but it gave me feedback and sort of an indicator as [00:22:00] to what things we could tease out, things that we could massage, things that we could make better.

So yeah, it was an amazing experience. In hindsight, I probably would've done a few more shows. Least four was four was a very small amount. Fantastic. And we sell that. So I'll take that. No, exactly. Well, that's always a good thing. And then bringing it to Adelaide as well. Are you, have you been to the Adelaide Fringe is a, whether it be in ensemble or ensembles or just as a a fan, are you a fan of the Adelaide Fringe?

I've never been. So I am like really excited. I've come over and done a few shows. I did like I've performed in Adelaide before, but for different things. Yeah. And outside of the Fringe. So yeah, this is my first experience of Fringe and I've been told it's incredibly different to Melbourne Fringe, more similar to Edinburgh.

So I'm really excited for this size and the sheer magnitude of what I'm about to experience. Yeah, well it takes over the whole city. It's awesome. Yeah. Well the whole state now, probably. Yeah. So yeah, it'll definitely be an experience for Hoya, and so it'll be. Fantastic having, are you here for it? But kind of re [00:23:00] returning back to one of the themes of, of, of the show and theme of your career as well, do you think.

When, when things are out of the control of the understudy or of the artist in a, in an artistic career, the secret is to just be flexible and work, say yes across dis disciplines and just be active and then see what takes off, see what develops rather than kind of waiting for, for the luck. 'cause that seems to be, as I say, every year since you've started, you, you've been doing projects across disciplines and, and just keeping busy, but not.

Necessarily always within the same discipline. Yeah, I mean, I think that's the key, but I, I don't know. I'm learning as I go really. Like I think the waiting is a pretty, yeah, it's a pretty common experience, especially for actors because we are not. We're not writers first and foremost. We're not like, we have to kind of learn those disciplines in a different capacity, I guess.

Be a songwriter or being a, or a director or something, you can kind of go from job to [00:24:00] job a little bit more easily. I mean, people probably hate me saying that, but because you're, if you're an actor, you're sort of at the whim of other people's projects. The industry is quite small here. And so most actors I know do start writing do make their own things go into directing or because you're just craving being able to do it, you just wanna be doing it.

So you have to create your own opportunities. But in saying that, like the waiting is a part of it. Yeah. And there's a lot of resilience and there's a lot of having to kind of from ask yourself pretty regularly, do I wanna keep doing this? Like, is this worth. And not to be wrong with me about it, like, but you're choosing it and you do actively choose it.

You have to actively choose it. But yeah, I feel like going across disciplines has sort of also just been an instinct in terms of like, I get bored pretty quickly, so to like figure out what the next thing is that's gonna excite me. But the story in itself, the understudy, it's a pretty meta, it's a, it's a meta story like she is doing the show.

To save her career, which it's kind of [00:25:00] the point. Yeah. Right. So, yeah, and I kind of, when I was gonna say I wanna write a one-woman show, like, what was I gonna write about probably writing a one-woman show? You know, I mean, it's a lot of fun to be had there. But yeah, it's, it's a weird one. Like it's, it's perpetually, it's perpetually confusing and exhausting, and you have to continually remind yourself or ask yourself.

Why am I doing this? Fantastic. And, and on the waiting as well, and I don't know whether this is covered in the show at all, and no spoilers, but what's your favorite way backstage if you, if you are, have been in an understudy role, or even if you're just waiting to go on stage, what's your way of keeping the mind active or, or filling in the time when, when you're, when, when you're backstage?

Great question. When I've understudied in the past, I have pretty much just been going over the script because you don't want to forget. So you're always like, you don't really have anything else to fill the time with when you're an understudy or you never know when you're gonna go along. And so that anxiety really [00:26:00] does just make you keep working, keep learning lines, keep making sure you're on top of it, just in case, which is sort of an insane position to be in.

Like it really does. Cause a lot of anxiety, the pressure of that. But yeah, that's what you do. That's what I sit back stage doing. Looking at the line and the stars like looking at you, looking at the lines and going, what are you looking at them for? They're like, oh, they're my lines. You ask them like, Hey, in that bit, do you move your arm like this and do you like, just making sure you, you're across it.

Fantastic. Well, it, it, it sounds like a a, a fantastic show. I got great feedback and had the sellout run. In Melbourne and so we are very much looking forward to you bringing it to Adelaide and coming to Adelaide for the first time. And so, yeah, all, all the best learning the lines again over the, over the next month and we'll see you here soon.

Thanks so much. I cannot wait. Fantastic. Well, enjoy the rest of the day and try to stay cool. Thanks, you too. All right. See you later. Bye.

Uh, and so we're gonna hear now from. Uh, [00:27:00] Chandre also Ruby Kiara and Sam comedians from Melbourne that are gonna be performing at Car Clue and in a show standup comedy showcase called the Diversity Quota. So here's my, uh, chat with them. It goes in all different directions and I hope you enjoy. So we got you all together and you know, we're talking about the diversity quota, which is very much So we got you all together. And, you know, we're talking about the diversity quota, which is very much talking about, uh, you know, it's workplace themed. And we just had a bit of a, a Microsoft teams meeting kind of issue there where it's, oh, you know. We need to dial someone else into the call and, and, and, and things like that.

Uh, but we got there in the end. Uh, and, uh, trea, I know you are in Perth, and so they've, people have, uh, called you the, the famous one of the group is, is that a, is that, is that like a status that you take on, uh, yourself? Do you just, um, name drop all the people you are meeting over there? Um, um, so I'm here to do some live of shows, do some slots, and do my, um, solo show here.

I'm here for a [00:28:00] week. No, that's great. And I've, I've seen you, you're not only performing that show, uh, you're not only only performing diversity quota in, uh, Adelaide, you're bringing Yeah. Uh, your shows from over in Perth here as well. So, uh, what can you tell us about those before we, um, move on to, um.

Talking about the diversity quota, what, what can you tell us about your other shows that you're doing? Uh, so I'm doing a solo show. It's my new solo show called Third Eastern New 69. Um, it's a show to celebrate. Um, growing old, I guess from 20 something to 30, something like the emotional journey. The, um, I don't know.

I just feel like I have to do something. 'cause like everyone, when they turn from 20 something to 30 something, they always do something. And I was like, but I, I don't have a boyfriend to celebrate. I was like, I can celebrate with strangers. That's why I'm doing a show. Yeah. And I can do this show for the next 10 years, I guess.

Fantastic. And then, you know, uh, let me tell you from experience, when you get to 40, all the humor's gone. All the [00:29:00] humor's gone. There's no fun in it at all. Uh, no, it's not that bad. But, um, uh, no. So, uh, looking forward to seeing that one as well. But, um, and have, have the rest of the cast, have you seen, uh, Trey's show?

No, because the new one, but she did her other show on the same nights as our show. She literally went and like show hopped had to like immediately. Well this was blowing out Melbourne Fringe. Yes, sorry. But for Melbourne Fringe, um, where we did the diversity quota there and now we're bringing it. As you know.

Fantastic. Well, you know, she is the famous one. She can pull that card. But, um, uh, but um, but so, um, before we move on to the questions, uh, the other questions, how did you all meet? Just around the comedy scene or? Yeah, literally just on the comedy scene. So within about a month or two months, um, like I, myself, Ruby started comedy, um, Kiara started comedy around the same time as me.

My first gig I met Chantri at one of my, I think my second or third gig. I, and then [00:30:00] my fourth. Um, and little did we know, we had all just met each other within the same time. And it kind of really quite funny because I think it Sam, who reached out to me and said, wait, no, no. It was this so specific. It's not that it's, it's it's not because it was first.

Yeah. Right. Yeah. Okay. So Sam and I did a gig. Sam was seeing a gig that I did and I was like, ah, I was maybe thinking about doing Fringe. He's like, do you have people for that? And I was like, no, it's just an idea. He is like, can I be one of those people? And I'm like. Yeah, sure. Not that it was gonna happen.

Thank God for Sam. 'cause he did a lot. A lot. Yeah. Sam is of the backstage work. I would, Sam knows a lot about producing already. He worked on a radio show himself. Yes. So he was kind of the um, I guess like lead producer in this. And then we had, but then, uh, we were, Sam and I were talking, no, Sam and I were talking and we were like.

I was gonna be like, oh, I just met someone like who should be part of the show, I think. And then Sam was like, I have someone too. And they're like, [00:31:00] okay. Like let's say who it is. We both said, Ruby Ruby's do it. And, and. I'm like, I know someone else and that's to change trigger. And I was, yeah.

Fantastic. And Sam, I heard, uh, before we came on air, um, having a caffeine tablet, so I'm, I'm sure that caffeine tablet probably helped with the, the producing and getting everything done as well. Is that a, is that a radio trick, uh, you learned there, Sam? Or? Uh, yeah, I do breakfast radio that does not pair well with doing standup comedy gigs at night and then waking up at like 5:00 AM the next morning.

It's, I love it. I don't wanna haul up to the breakfast show that I work on, but it is a bit tough. So, yeah, it's, that's a bit of a cheat code that helps. Fantastic. And that's one example of a workplace, but, um, this theme is the diversity quota is, you know. Got a, a workplace and HR theme and things, uh, how did you arrive on the theme and, uh, what kind of, um, discussions about workplaces did you have, if any, in arriving at the theme that you've come up with?

Um, I [00:32:00] mean, when we came together as a quad, we were sort of like, the first thing I guess we had to think about was. What is the theme of this split bill? Because of the, the nature of like standup comedy and we're all quite new to it, we wanted it to be sort of just like 15 minutes each of our own content to practice our work and bring it together.

But we need, we, I found it really important for us to have a, an important, strong theme. And so we started talking about it. We kind of talked about like, oh, the idea that. Um, a lot of Melba, a lot of the comedy scene is dominated by men, and we've got three people in this group who aren't men. Like, let's play around with that.

Let's like, maybe something about, you know, how, oh, like, you know, we've made such a great picture for the diversity of like h like of like the website of a, of a company or something. I think Ria kind of had that idea and then, um, I think like, oh, what about the diversity quota? Because I don't know if you can tell, but while [00:33:00] we have four people who come from different backgrounds in this group, we're a pretty sad excuse for a diversity quota.

It's hence the quota. Mark. Um, Andrea, you had like amazing points about this. Do you wanna tell us about what you gotta say? Um, oh, um, okay. Um. So I think like, um, me personally, I have many identities. I think, um, the Asian woman living in Australia and the immigrant and the one that don't look like dirty.

So I feel I have a lot of identity just in me alone, and I just kept noticing that like. Diversity is usually straight, like a box to take, not a conversation. So I was like, what if we lean more into the awkwardness instead of pretending it's so and so now we come together, we put, we put like queer, non-binary cross-cultural voices and the white guy on stage.

That's real life, right? Yeah. Like that's just in reality. The irony is once [00:34:00] everyone's included, no one feels tokenized. Not even the white guys. Yeah, that's the idea. You even saying the space, and I've always said that we should create more safe spaces for men and like what Ruby said, like it is, like, I talk, I'm my background, I, I have a Latino background, but I talk a lot about, in my show, I don't really look and I'm very white passing.

And it's like those things along in the, in the show. Sam, I feel like you talk a lot about being a white guy and how, just kind of ironic it is that I'm in a show called the Diversity Quota and stuff like it's, well, it's not really because, you know, it's so male dominated that, you know, you, you're just invading like you do every other comedy space.

So,

but, but like, unfortunately, like you, it's also, I feel like it's playing on the thing that men are only going to listen to other men. And so we better put one in our show, so yeah. Yeah. But we all have the same views and we all present that in our, without spoiling every, any, we [00:35:00] present it in our comedy show.

Yeah. Fantastic. And you know, I'm, I'm, we have our annual Aus Asia Festival here, um, and we had a, for the last three years we had a, um. A show called The Special Comedy, comedy Special, which was all, um, Asian Australian standup comedians as well, and very much, um, you know, breaking down that diversity, um, as well.

Um, so it's, yeah, it's really, really important. Um, but, and, and in those shows as well, and, uh. It, you know, particularly, you know, since the return of Donald Trump, it's been quite a hostile environment. You know, I work in a sector that we're trying to advance diversity and inclusion practices in the disability sector, but, you know, um, it, it's a very toxic environment, um, at the moment with, you know, particular sectors of the community, uh, pushing back against diversity.

Um, with the themes in your show, do you address. That phenomenon a little bit. So, um, yeah, it's not, when, when we first did the show, I guess it was still relevant, but not, it wasn't as heightened as it is now. So we, I don't think we're actually keeping the exact same material. As, I feel like [00:36:00] as the more, like the more that we go through evolve, the more that we go through life, the more adversity that we face as well.

And then like we all, I feel like right from a very personal place in terms of our experience in the world. So it's always reflected in our work. I feel like even if I'm making a joke about hot plans, it's like got something to say. Yeah. Yeah, from your lens. Yeah. It's what it's about. Mainly just like bringing our different perspectives together.

Um, yeah, definitely. And do you feel like, uh, comedy is. An art form that, you know, allows people to talk about, you know, one of the funniest things is taboo. And I was, I was talking to a, a comedian from New Zealand last week who is doing a comedy show about, um, women's health issues and, and pelvic, um, prolapse and things like that.

And, and. And while we're talking about how, you know, taboo is, is funny, but it's also a way audiences find it funny. But it's also, you know, by presenting themes that are, you know, hard to talk about or [00:37:00] important to talk about. In a comedic setting, it's more likely to get, you know, the people along that need to be, need to hear the message than if it was presented in another context as well.

Yeah, definitely. I definitely think that, yeah, like comedy has the capacity to kind of break down some of these like issues and talk about them. Like I personally don't talk much about politics or like, I guess I comment on like, like have a bit of a social commentary, but it's very much. Through my own experience.

And so like you're telling a joke allows people to kind of see what's inside the issue itself and like break it down and think about it a bit more. It makes it easier as well. Like there are other art forms that do that, like obviously songs, but I, I feel like, which comedy's it can be so direct and so straightforward and a lot of the times it is your, like what Sam said and like what you are saying, it comes from your own experience.

You, you can talk about it and. Yeah, you can get really, I guess, taboo. I mean, in my opinion, if you are [00:38:00] not punching down, which is a big thing for us, and you're not, you know, picking on minority, it doesn't, it's not necessarily taboo. It's, it's, you know, speaking the truth. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Or, you know, it's, uh, amplifying, uh, perspectives that are, um.

You know, have been marginalized or not, um, uh, given the platform to, to, to speak, um, more than, more than taboo. Yeah, definitely. Um, and, and, and just, uh, finally, you've got four different comedic voices in the show, and you've talked about how your personal experiences have shaped it. And I know you've got diverse backgrounds in performing.

We've got, uh, former circus performers as well as other backgrounds as well. Um, what, what has shaped each of your, uh, comedic voices? Wow. I mean, like I came from a musical theater background. I was thinking about this earlier as well, like, um, I feel like coming into comedy in musical theater, you really have to stick by the book.

Like, you know what the final product of the show is gonna be the minute you walk into the audition room with comedy, you can just change it the day of and no one will know, and you are really in charge of. [00:39:00] That own style and like you are your own agent. And I feel like in coming into comedy, like I've kind of come into comedy at the same time that I matters as non-binary.

And I feel like coming into the comedy world, you know, like you are your, I am myself on stage. I used to be myself. I, you know, haven't dabbled in a lot of character work yet, but there's still time. Um, but I feel like in coming into my comedic self, I'm like taking off the. Of curated musical theater person.

And like in that I'm also like taking off the costume of women and one, and like figure out who I'm, what I, I wanna create at the same time as figuring out who I am. I'm pretty personal when it comes. That was, that was a fantastic, I, that's where I come from and like my style. And I think that that's what like inspires me like.

Um, that's what I bring to the table. Chare, do you wanna also say something about it? Yeah. Um, so I feel like my voice came from, um, feeling like I [00:40:00] never quite fit anywhere, like cultural romantically or socially. And I feel like comedy become the place where confusion was an asset. And in our live show, I feel like my voice doesn't disappear.

It sharpens. And when you hear different perspectives back to back it, I think it how subjective normal really is. And it's not just one loud noise, one loud voice. It's a conversation I feel. Yeah. We all have such different styles and such d things to say. That's why it is in a, it's like that's the other diverse, like it is a diverse common.

It's different styles. Uh, you, if you know whoever's seeing it, they'll, they'll notice each comedian has a different thing to say, even if we have the same things to say. 'cause we do actually, it's a theme of the show, we say in such way. And I think that's, that's, we have very different styles. I feel like we we're also new to comedy as well.

That while we're still figuring it out, while coming together, I feel like we've all found [00:41:00] a voice in a way. Beautiful. That is it. That's so beautiful. It's like, I thought about that earlier.

Um, yeah, no, I feel like, I don't know and everyone's had a great answer. I just feel like copy everyone slightly. I feel like, I think I've big part of shape my voice. I remember watching a lot of comedians growing up and I used to wanna be like them. Mm-hmm. But then I, I heard something from a very famous comedian and I realized that I didn't resonate with it at all.

It was that they don't like to share their own life on stage. Mm-hmm. And I remember when I heard that, I'm like, that's crazy. 'cause I tend to overshare with everyone all the time. That's really kind of similar. Uh, it was kind of interesting hearing, hearing Ru talk about their own style because I feel like I do do also like, have very personal, and I kind of very much give myself away on stage in terms of like giving my whole kind of personality to the audience.

But I feel like I do it in a very different way to you and Totally. Yeah. I would say that's kind of helped me find my voices, but I also just, everything everyone said, like coming together, being a part of this show has really helped. And just learning every day. Right. You just helped each other through the dark.

Yeah. [00:42:00] So I could back share a lot to do. Like, it's, it's so, it, it's, it's also like a letting people in on like a world they might, might not know. And it's like, I think that's what makes it memorable. You know, I talk about my dad, I talk about ethnicity, I talk about my cat. Everyone needs to know about, that's importantly.

Yeah. Most, um, may or may not be some gymnastics, I dunno.

Can I, can I suggest cat, cat gymnastics? Is, is, you know, we, we have a lot of acrobatics at the fringe. We don't have any cat acrobatics, so that's a, that's a missing, missing, um, uh, sector that you could bring over as well, but, um, so true. That's so true. Well, you know, they always land on their feet. It's just perfect.

But, um. Not mine. He's,

that's the diversity he thinks we need diversity. Yeah. Well, exactly. They're underrepresented. Um, so, um, excellent. Well, uh, it, it's your first fringe coming over here, so we are very much looking forward to having you here and having you car clues. So. Uh, it's not long. Um, and yeah, so thank you very much. We, we've connected the states, um, uh, Perth and Melbourne and South Australia, so it's looking forward to having you all [00:43:00] here in the one place.

Thanks so much. Thank you. Um, if you wanna buy tickets, um, and you used our promo code Token 69, um, you can get in dollar tickets at moment. Yeah. Suggested this name idea. We thought that I, oh, I thought it was funny. Well, you might have people, uh, turning up, expecting a different product, but you know, as long as you get them there, um, it'll be perfectly fine.

Let's make it very clear. Token 69 for $15, ticks for 15, and yeah, HR approved for $20. Tick. Run outta those. Yeah. One word or capital. Thanks. Fantastic. Well, yes, thank you for sharing and, and you should know that Adelaide audiences, it's why we miss out on all the good concerts. They buy tickets at the very last minute.

So, uh, don't stress too much. But, um, but yeah, no, thank you for sharing those codes and we are gonna look forward to having you here in uh, uh, not too long. Yeah. Thank you so much. Thank [00:44:00] you. talking.

And so did you say we were, uh, speaking, uh, to, uh, Chantri Young? Uh, we had Kiara are, uh, st. Uh, Ruby Stewart and Sam Kelly, and they're bringing their show to the Adelaide Fringe. It's called the Diversity Quota, and it's Friday the 20th of February, first weekend of Fringe at the ballroom at Car Klu. So yeah, get out and, uh, support Car Klu as a venue, as, uh, as a fringe venue, as well as seeing some, uh.

Great Melbourne comedians there. Emerging Melbourne comedians. We're gonna hear now from BGA and Ghost in your bed. And then after that we're gonna have a chat with Lachlan from Gravity and other myths.

And so, uh, we just heard from the diversity quota, but now we're gonna speak to the Lachlan, one of the founding members and, uh, creative forces behind Gravity and other myths who have taken. South Australian Circus to the world. They're gonna be presenting at the Adelaide Fringe this year.

Two shows, 10,000 hours. It's gonna run from the 19th of [00:45:00] February until the 7th of March. And then the Mirror, which has a bit of a longer run from the 20th of February to the 22nd of March. And so here's my chat with Lachlan about making a life in circus.

 Awesome. So I was reading how you started out in circus when you were eight with CI Kids and then growing co-founding Gravity and other myths and then take Growing it into this Yeah. Company that now travels the world and is com. Yeah. Uh, performing in so many. Different places all at once. How's that feeling?

You know, finding what you, I envy you finding what you love at eight and then turning it into your life. We, we were pretty fortunate. Um, uh, it, we still pinch ourselves occasionally. Um, it's really, it's fantastic to be able to be still doing what we love. I'm not necessarily doing as much performing anymore 'cause I'm, you know, getting on in, in years.

Um, and there's, there's kind of a natural time limit, but still being able to do, you know, put on shows and perform and, and. And kind of share our art with the world, um, with [00:46:00] kind of the same group of friends that I started doing it with is awesome. Fantastic. And I, I see that I was reading about how one of your big roles is the innovation and, you know, creating new ways of exploring circus as well.

And when you've been around it all your life like that, you know, and seeing what's being done and, you know, just being how your, your, your mind's wired. It must prepare you for looking at new ways of doing it as well. Yeah, definitely. You, you start to get pretty immersed in the world and, you know, you watch a lot of shows as well, so you're seeing what everyone else is making.

And, and you know, a big part of it for me is, is trying to put something on stage that, um, well, it's never gonna be completely unique. There's, there's always something that no one's ever seen before. Or done in a slightly unique way or, or a different way. Um, that's kind of what, what drives me making shows these days.

Fantastic. And that brings us on to the mirror, which is, you know, is very much, you know, we'll talk about the mirror and 10,000 hours and both are relevant to, you know, what you've already said, but with the mirror, [00:47:00] the, the use of technology there as well, but also comparing the modern world and the way that modern children get their entertainment compared to how you.

Got your entertainment when you were eight as well, you know, the absence of screens and then, you know, integrating screens in the show. It's, um, yeah, it's really important to explore that, you know, discussion that we've been having about, you know, how kids are spending their time and, you know, getting 'em off the couch and things like that.

Yeah. Well. Um, we just, yeah, it, it was really important for, to us to try and kind of implement something like that. You know, we use wireless cameras and, uh, selfie sticks and, and we, we do a whole bunch of stuff with like pop culture influences, popular music, um, or kind of reworked and, and kind of presented with our, our kind of fun, playful flavor.

Um, it certainly doing acrobatics and circus got me off the couch when I was a kid. Um, and it still does, you know, the circus school I went to is still running and, and we like to think that, that both shows will inspire people to, um, if not [00:48:00] get physical, just do something that they love and, and be creative.

Definitely. And it's one of the, you know, with the mirror, it's one of the difficult things is because, you know, the show is displaying how. You know what new possibilities can be opened up by using technology and, you know, presenting a show in a way that's never been done before. So technology has all these benefits and possibilities, but then it has all these risks as well.

And that's what kind of, you know, even when I think about my mobile phone use, I, I think about the, the time I waste. But then I think about the, the things that I'm able to do that I was never able to do before, and how can you have one and not the other. Yeah, absolutely. We, I mean we, we presented all with a pretty kind of ambiguous lens.

We're not necessarily trying to make any comments either way. Um, like you said, it's just a really interesting kind of layer to, to the world we live in now that, that we thought was really, um, an important thing to kind of implement into the, into that work. Fantastic. And, and then with 10,000 hours, and we talked about you discovering circus when you were eight [00:49:00] and you know.

If anyone that's has seen gravity and other myths shows you look at what you do, what the performers are doing, and you think, I could never do that. I could never reach that point. How, you know, that's impossible. But you know, it is that 10,000 hours of starting out small and then growing it and you know, if we translate that to any aspect of our life, we never know where we can go and what we choose to pursue.

Exactly. We certainly didn't. Um, start doing the things we're doing on stage now. Way back when we first started, you, it's always, it's always one step after another. Um, baby steps, you know, you gotta walk before you run, um, and all that kind of stuff. And, and that's kind of what we wanted to, to do with.

With 10,000 hours, um, often you see this really polished spectacle. Um, one, one quick moment on stage actually has so much, um, of a journey behind it. Uh, and it, and we think that's actually often more interesting than the, than the finished result. You know, that every step that we took along the way, every time we fell, every time, you know, we, we.

Rehearse the trick in a different way, break [00:50:00] it down into its different elements, all that kind of stuff is super interesting to watch. So we, we just decided to put it all on stage. Yeah, definitely. I, I think about when I, I see on Instagram, you know, talking about phone use, you know, the, the viral kind of shuffle dances and things, and I'll do the instructional video where they Yeah.

You know, show this like, you know, really slow breakdown of, um, of what they're doing and, and then, oh. It looks manageable. Oh, I know how I could do that. And then they speed it up and you think, oh, look at that. I could never do that kind of thing. But you know, that's what you are doing very much is breaking everything down and, um, you know, showing the, the working behind the scenes and, and then, you know, hopefully inspiring people in the process to go, oh, okay.

That's, that's the process. Uh, and I, I can get there. Yeah. And they still get to see that spectacular trick at the end. Exactly. Well, you can't. You can't have the show without that as well. And, uh, uh, but, but yeah. Um, I was also, uh, reading about how very much, uh, your journey was inspired by going over to Edinburgh for the first time and, and seeing, um, what was [00:51:00] possible over there as, as well.

Um, what, what do you remember from that trip over there? Well, it was our first big trip overseas and I think just being exposed to all the different shows that Edinburgh is, is, uh, the biggest fringe festival in the world. Adelaide, I think is the second biggest. So, you know, we have it on our doorstep as well, but.

But it's another kind of beast over there. And seeing all the different shows and all the different kind of offerings and, you know, free shows in a basement, and then massive big spectacles in, in main stage theaters. The, the variety of shows out there, um, kind of really, really took us by storm and, and, and inspired us to, um, to keep doing what we were doing, you know, and we made some, made some nice connections and lots of people saw the show.

That we were doing over there as well. So, uh, it's a, it's a fantastic place to see shows and to perform if you want to get seen as well. Definitely. And how lucky do you feel that every summer, all the best circus in the [00:52:00] world comes to Adelaide and you get to see what everyone else is doing as well? Yeah, it's.

The Adelaide Fringe on our doorstep has been really pivotal and a huge, you know, huge part of my childhood and, and growing up and going to see shows. Mm-hmm. And just having that real vegetable atmosphere every year as well. It's a lot of fun. Um, but yeah, it's great. Great having all the shows come to you.

Definitely. And, you know, I was, I was talking to, um, Andy Packer from Slingsby, uh, earlier in, uh, the year about, you know, new touring models and things like that, and you know how to make. Creation of new work, sustainable. And I know, you know, with something like circus and acrobatics, it, it can, you know, it, it's so often entirely beyond language and so it can tour anywhere.

But how, you know, finding that model where it, you know, it's so much work goes into compositions and lighting and rehearsing and all those sorts of things. Finding a model where you can just. Keep giving life to shows and touring all the world like [00:53:00] Gravity and other myths is it's, it is really cracking a way of, you know.

Having a sustainable long-term career in, in creativity by, uh, you know Yeah. Putting together the, the system that you have. Yeah. I mean, look, it's, it's, it's a problem for everyone. And, you know, we tour a lot and we travel a lot, but it's still something we think about all the time. Um, how, how. You know, we could be supported more, how we could make things more economic sustainable.

All those words kind of float around and they're all kind of, they're all loaded with, with lots of different implications. Should it be sustainable or should you be able to be making the art that you wanna make and, and sharing that with the world somehow? I don't, we don't have the answers. We're certainly working on it though, but it's, yeah, it's a big problem.

Um, because I think it's so important for, for shows like ours and shows like, um, a lot of the fantastic Australian companies are making to be out there and to be being seen particularly, you know, these days and kind of climate, um, art and, and entertainment. Some more important than ever. I think so, yeah.

We're thinking about it and we, we want it. We wanna, [00:54:00] we wanna crack the code as well. Yeah, definitely. And you know, I was talking to Andy about, you know, universal basic incomes for artists and all those different options that, you know, as you say, should passion and artistic creation, you know, be reduced to, to money and, or, or should there be other ways of doing it?

And, you know, all the time that. You devote to cracking the code and, you know, all the, the logistics could be devoted. That part of the brain could be devoted to, um, creating more works and, and things like that as well. And so it's definitely a riddle and, um, you know, with the, it's something that we often, uh, talk about as well.

But yeah. Just finally, what, for people that haven't seen the mirror and 10,000 hours, what's your kind of elevator pitch? You, we've talked about some of the themes a little bit, but you know, what can people expect when they see both of the shows? Yeah, well. Gravity and other myth is a group acrobatics company at our core.

Um, so we've got big groups of acrobats, um, on stage doing kind of incredible spectacular acrobatic stunts. And then we wrap it all in play, humor, fun, um, a little bit of soul, a little bit of kind of emotional, um, uh, [00:55:00] or, um, but at the end of the day, it's people doing absolutely spectacular tricks. You know, imagine cheerleading.

Combined with gymnastics, combined with Circus Soleil, combined with, um, beautiful kind of contemporary dance. Um, uh, and it's just a lot of fun. We don't take ourselves too seriously. We love to joke. We love to take the piss. Um, and we love to have a laugh. So generally audiences are. Sharing that journey.

Fantastic. Well, uh, I hope everyone, uh, gets a chance to head along if they haven't seen one of your shows before. I remember. I think, uh, a Simple Space was the first one that I saw, and yeah, people won't forget, it'll be like your trip to Edinburgh. People won't forget, uh, their first time they go along. So, uh, it's definitely recommended from me.

So good luck, uh, preparing for all that. Uh, you have ahead of you, uh, at the start of the fringe, and we'll see you out there. Yeah, see you there. Thanks.

And uh, yeah, as I said, you can go see the Mirror or 10,000 hours or you can go see both at the Fringe kicking off in maybe three weeks Now. That's all the [00:56:00] time for the Arts Garden this week. We've got another packed show next week.