When Love Hurts: Inside I Love You, My Narcissist

When Love Hurts: Inside I Love You, My Narcissist

Show Notes:
In this episode of Beyond Mommy Dearest, host Noelani Pearl Hernandez sits down with Ali and Stefanie Schmahl, the producers behind the powerful upcoming film I Love You, My Narcissist. Together, they explore the emotional complexity of loving someone whose behavior is manipulative, controlling, and deeply harmful.

Allie and Stephanie share what inspired them to create the film and how their research into narcissistic dynamics led them to interview survivors and experts, including Dr. Ramani, one of the leading voices on narcissistic abuse. The film blends documentary insight with fictional storytelling to help audiences understand the patterns, confusion, and emotional impact that narcissistic relationships can create.

During the conversation, they discuss the subtle warning signs of narcissistic abuse, why survivors often struggle to leave, and how manipulation, gaslighting, and power dynamics slowly erode a person’s sense of self. They also highlight why it’s important to challenge the myths surrounding survivors and recognize that narcissistic abuse can happen to anyone.

This episode is a powerful reminder that survivors are not weak, that narcissistic abuse is often misunderstood, and that conversations like these help people finally put language to experiences they may have carried silently for years.

Learn more about the film and upcoming release:
Watch Party Sign-Up:
https://mailchi.mp/ilymn-film/watchparty

Trailer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fh6bzqrhYc

Teaser:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xjCWCuualc

Film Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/ilymn.film

Film Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/ilymn.film/

Alefcine Production Company: https://alefcinepictures.com/productions/

Alefcine Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/alefcinepictures/

Alefcine Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/alefcinepictures

If this episode resonates with you, please follow, rate, and share the podcast so more survivors can find this space.

And remember:
You’re not crazy. You’re not imagining things. And you’re not alone.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

You're listening to the Beyond Mommy Daris podcast, where we talk about growing up with narcissistic moms, how it shaped your nervous system, your relationships, and your sense of self, and how to feel without change. I'm your host, Melani Pearl Hernandez. Today's episode is sponsored by Happy Cannabis, our tropic body oil containing hemp-derived CBD and always THC-free. Today's episode is a really important conversation. We're talking to the producers of the powerful film I Love You, My Narcissist. The title alone captures something that many people struggle to explain. How do you hold love and harm in the same relationship? How do you make sense of an emotionally confusing time that comes from loving someone whose behavior can be manipulative, controlling, and damaging? I'm so excited to talk to Allie and Stephanie today.

SPEAKER_02 0:56

I should have known better. This could happen to anyone, and anyone out there who thinks this can't happen to them, then they're the next one in line.

SPEAKER_05 1:06

Narcissists get really, really good at seeking out victims.

SPEAKER_02 1:10

You don't need other guys in life. We'll often fight for the thing we want to be true.

SPEAKER_05 1:18

And you do love it.

SPEAKER_02 1:22

I do love it. What does a healthy relationship look like?

SPEAKER_01 1:42

Well, Stephanie and Allie, welcome to the podcast. I'm so excited that you're here. Um I am definitely spoiled because this is my third time interviewing Stephanie and Allie. So I I'm I'm the lucky one here. So thank you for making time and being here today.

SPEAKER_03 2:03

Thank you so much for having us and inviting us for this conversation.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

Yeah, definitely. What I'm gonna do is um for those of you who are going to watch us through the video, you should have already seen the teaser. Also in the show notes, you'll be able to watch the trailer, watch the teaser, and sign up for the watch party, which is really, really important. So I want to start off with the first question I have for you is what really inspired you to create I Love You, My Narcissist? Was there a personal story or a specific like moment that sparked this project?

SPEAKER_05 2:40

Yeah, I think it started for me by actually not really doing film-related research, but just doing research on narcissistic dynamics. Um, due to my own past experiences, I kind of stumbled upon different YouTube videos and then research and was just looking into it. And um then when I uh was looking for something new to focus on for a next production, I was thinking, hmm, this is actually a really good topic to um talk about because to me it felt like um when we started to think about this idea a couple of years ago, people were talking about narcissistic narcissism and narcissistic abuse, but more um in a superficial way, like it was just thrown out all the time. People were throwing about words like toxic and gaslighting, but I didn't feel like people people were really understanding what it actually means. So I thought maybe we should spend some time and bring more awareness to it. And at that point, I thought we were gonna do a pure documentary, which is really not what we ended up doing. But Ali, maybe you want to jump in here.

SPEAKER_03 3:55

Yeah, um for me it was also important to show people that narcissist is not just a person who wants to be center of the attention. Because in my experience, also talking to people about narcissism or about attractive people, also they say, Yeah, hey, he's or she's a narcissist, and they ask him why are you saying that because you he or they want to be center of the attention, right? And um, it's not just just this, uh, it's it's much broader than uh people expect um and think. Um, and at the beginning, we we came Stephanie came up with the idea of making uh a film, a movie about it, and we came up with the idea of first making a very, very usual documentary where we invite some survivors, some experts from Berlin, uh very limited, um, and interview them, showing some uh archive photos and videos, and doing some reenactments for for the b-rolls and in between scenes, also, and then we thought about that that's not a quality, and that's not what we want to do because such documentary could work for YouTube, but since we don't have a wide audience and reach on YouTube, so it won't be successful, then we said, Yeah, okay, let's let's let's put it on the side and see what what happens. And then after two, three months, um after we put we put it uh on the side, uh um suddenly the idea came came to me. How about if we create a mixture of documentary and fiction? And this way we could we could connect to the audience better because the documentary gives the information people need, and the fiction gives the emotions people need. So we thought about that and saying, okay, let's create a create a hybrid genre uh and make it happen. Then we looked for the writer and we looked for stories, and then we interviewed uh around um 15 uh persons who who were who are survivors of narcissistic abuse and they experienced that uh in their life, in their family from childhood to their relationship, to their work, and everything. And we got inspired by these stories, and then we drafted or two main stories that we have in the film, and we added the situations that we got inspired of into these two stories. So it means that every story has touches of many, many different narcissistic uh IPU situations. And we developed stories like this, so we could show as much as possible because a film is also a limited time, so we don't have the possibility to show everything and to focus on every single aspect of these uh these dynamics. Um, and we try to do our best to make it uh make it a believable and touchable uh topic and film for the audience.

SPEAKER_01 7:22

You know, I really appreciate that because I I believe that that's really responsible storytelling, um, especially in a space like this where there's uh like Stephanie, you were saying, there's a lot of like pulp culture around like using, oh, that person's a narcissist, or that, you know, oh, they're really thinking about themselves. Or, you know, that's oh, what are you trying to do? Gaslight me? Like I think that's really common right now in our society, and especially American society where they're using it constantly. And I in my experience, people don't understand the the depth of what a narcissist does. There's more than just that surface of, you know, maybe the there all the attention does need to be on them, but there's more depth to it. And from the teaser and the trailer and what you've shared with me, I think that you have all done a really responsible job of being balanced in that too. Y'all also have Dr. Romani. So from a fangirl standpoint, tell you have to give us the inside scoop. What is Dr. Romani like?

SPEAKER_03 8:36

Isn't it funny? Do you want to to move to Assange? Or should I stop?

SPEAKER_05 8:41

I didn't expect that question.

SPEAKER_01 8:42

I have to think about I never popped it up, but a lot of our survivors of the narcissistic abuse, they are commonly using, like they'll post up her one of her Instagrams because she is like from what I've seen, like one of the top 10 of you know, focusing on this narcissistic abuse. And she's saved hundreds and thousands of lives as a result of it. So I know there might be a little fangirling out there of her. So whatever, whatever insight, if you could say she like she's a wonderful person or you know, she's really scientific, whatever it is, we'll take it.

SPEAKER_05 9:21

I think what stood out most to me, like I knew I knew she was gonna be knowledgeable, and I felt like uh we wouldn't have any issues with her on set. And um, that was that was true. Like uh we we had just such a uh professional and um comfortable shoot with her. And uh we are also uh a small production company, so so we don't have like she we couldn't organize um her own trailer for her, for example, but she was she was fine with us being a small production, yeah. Um, and then what stood out to me most was how funny it was with her and said we were laughing so much, and I didn't expect that.

SPEAKER_01 10:01

Yeah, that's so interesting. I mean, they say you you know, humor heals. What um Ali, what were your kind of insights um of Dr.

SPEAKER_03 10:12

Mani for me? She is an amazing person, and as Stephanie said, she was she was very comfortable with whatever we we provided. We tried our best to make it a very comfortable set for her during the shootings and also for the accommodation and everything that uh that was connected to the to the production. And it's uh it's also a funny story how how Dr. Romani got involved in the project because um at the at the very beginning we had a long list of experts that we wanted to reach out and ask for their involvement or their interest into the project. And we wrote a couple of a couple of uh people uh who are experts in this field. And then for Dr. Romani, we we have we haven't been sure. Stephanie told me, hey Ali, this is Dr. Romani, she's she's she's the best fit for the project. Her knowledge, her reputation, her uh her uh her expertise is amazing for the film, it could give the film a be a huge value, but I'm not sure if she accepts. And I told Stephanie, okay, let's let's sit and and think about it. If we don't reach out to her, nothing will change, okay? But if we reach out to her, if we get a yes or no response, because we we we didn't get uh uh any responses from from many other uh uh experts that we reach out to, and we decided yeah, if she says either no or she doesn't reply, then nothing will change for us. But the chances that she replies and then she says yes is also here. So we reach out to her and uh we'll see what comes next. And we had at we had at that moment the proof of concept that we already shot uh for the project. Yeah. And we we wrote Dr. Romani an email, and um we waited for for two weeks doing the pre-production and preparation for the rest of the production, and we didn't got back from her. And um we we have been a little bit disappointed that she didn't get back to us. Yeah, of course. And the next day, and the next day we got an email, we saw the notification on my phone, and we have we we looked at we looked at each other and I said, Is it a dream or what? The Ramani said, the Tarawani said, Yeah, hey, um, I like the project, I like what you are doing. I would like to know to learn more about the project, what you are doing, because because I too I totally understand that you can't trust everybody for for projects, especially for film projects, because right you don't know at the end what comes out and what the quality is and what is what's the topic is, and and and Dr. Romani wanted to make sure that we are the right project for her. Yeah, and then we we we wrote back uh twice or so, and then we moved we met online, we told her about what we are going to do, what are our goals and with this production and what we want to achieve and everything, and then and then after that, she says, Yes, I would love to be involved.

SPEAKER_01 13:28

So I love that.

SPEAKER_03 13:30

We have been so happy, yes, so happy with that, uh, because because we didn't expect that. Um it was for a for an unknown small production in Berlin, Germany. Some having someone like Dr. Romini from from LA and from the US in our project, yeah, is is is not a small thing, it's a huge uh advantage for the for the film. And while she was there, it was it was very interesting because she also gave us a lot of amazing feedback to their script and to their stories.

SPEAKER_05 14:06

And she also she also told us uh, for example, about the about the Michael's character in the film, because because we had originally uh other castings and other candidates for for the role, and she she she told us that that if this story is if you want this story to work, you need to cast Michael with this um with this type of person, he needs to have those kind of characteristics so that it works in the story.

SPEAKER_03 14:39

Exactly. Got it, right? Exactly. And and and with that, with that we could also cast the right the right actor for for Michael's role. Um and yeah, she was amazing. And um we learned I personally learned a lot uh during the interviews with her, and I I I I remember that many of crew members they came to me and they told me I never knew that a narcissistic person is like this. And they were just surprised, and that was that that was amazing. That was amazing. Well, I think she's she's an amazing amazing person.

SPEAKER_01 15:18

So she well, I'm super jealous that you got to meet her, and I think that it's really I think it's really fantastic and great. And so, and I'm glad that she came in on this because there's really important behavior patterns like you were talking about, Allie, that your crew was like, I didn't realize that that was narcissistic abuse. What do you what were some of those? And they can be specific to maybe what your um cast and crew came up with, but what are the patterns that you feel are the most important for the audiences for the audience to realize during the film or recognize during the film? We know the the very obvious stuff, but what kind of undertones are you hoping that they realize?

SPEAKER_03 16:05

Um for me personally, the undertone that I would like the audience to realize is that they could possibly realize as soon as possible that they are losing their personality. That they are that they are they are getting manipulated at uh during the time, and every time, every day they they go away more from their personality, and at at one point some somehow they don't know themselves uh uh either. So um that's that's that's what happens because because they because they question also their reality. And I hope that by watching this film people could realize that and could end such relationships before they are fully trapped into them.

SPEAKER_01 17:04

Stephanie, what do you what do you think?

SPEAKER_05 17:06

Yeah, I think what also helped us um with the feedback from Dr. Romini and also the other experts was um figuring out the nuances in the stories. Because in film it's very easy to go with the biggest drama, the biggest conflict, the biggest um friction, but that's not really what we needed to show the narcissistic patterns. So, in a lot of ways, we had to shift focus a little bit or dial down a couple of things so it's actually really narcissistic uh behavior and not something else. So there it was really helpful to get our experts' feedback.

SPEAKER_01 17:48

Yeah, because I know for narcissism, there's a lot of comorbidity with other um disorders. For instance, like for my personal, from my personal standpoint, my mom had narcissism, she was a covert narcissist. So she was a terror behind the door, um, and just so charming and beautiful and fantastic, you know, in public. And then she also did medical abuse, which is now munchhousing by proxy or factitious disorder by proxy. And for a lot of people, that's hard to pick up on because it's so subtle. And oftentimes, because out here in the US, there's mandatory reporters when it comes to like doctors and whatnot. So those are who usually pick it up because they inch um these people who have this kind of disorder, they they slowly get bigger in their tactics, right? And so that's that's always for me a really it's a really scary thing for a lot of people. Um, were there um any scenes or moments that changed during production because you realized the reality of the narcissistic abuse was even like more complex than you expected? So I think okay, sorry, go ahead.

SPEAKER_05 19:09

Yeah, a lot, a lot, even in the even in the writing process. We originally wanted to have three stories, but then we realized there's just not enough time to really go into three stories. Yeah, so um we kept one of the stories and then split up or like basically melt uh melted the other two stories together in a way, so that changed a lot of the dynamics. And then um for the covert narcissist, it was more intense for us to really find it and not be too over dramatic with it. Um, and I think now we found um a way that the true stories and the different types of narcissism um are portrayed in a way that it kind of like goes hand in hand, and we have different strategies and different dynamics that um kind of form the whole picture.

SPEAKER_01 20:03

If that makes sense. Totally makes sense. You know, one of the things that I really appreciated uh about the film was uh especially as a mother of a son, is the um and Stephanie, it's your character who Sarah, who is your character, um, and her relationship that she's in, it seems as if her mother is a narcissist. And then also she's a narcissist towards her partner who is a male. And I thought it was really important that that happen or that it be portrayed, because oftentimes when we think of any kind of abuse, um, we're shown the abuse from a male to female perspective and not a female to male perspective. So, can you talk to me a little bit about what your intentionality was behind that for for both you and Allie to have the conversation about what worked in regards to that? Do you want to start Ali?

SPEAKER_03 21:02

Yeah, yeah. The reason for that was because we wanted also to because we had also also male survivors who we interviewed. And we we had three three male uh uh survivors who we interviewed for their story, and the rest there is the rest were women. And they shared their story with us, and then and then we realized that the same situation that is happening to women from from a male narcissist, the similar situation is happening to men from a female narcissist. So why shouldn't we show that? And why should we stick to the to the to the stereotypes that narcissists are always men? Um women could be also narcissists. I experienced such in my relationships uh before.

SPEAKER_04 21:59

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 22:01

That was important for us to portray the stories and the characters as diverse as possible. So the audience could understand, yeah, hey. And Dr. Romani says that also in the film, actually, it can't happen to anyone, and anyone out there who can't it can't it can't happen to them, they are the next one in line. So Dr. Romani says that in the film as well. So it can happen to anyone, no matter how they educated there are, no matter how rich they are, no matter, no matter how royal uh from uh uh royalty they are. That it doesn't matter, it it could happen to anyone, and it could happen to male, it could happen to female, it could happen to anyone. So we wanted to we wanted to to keep to keep the the the topic as a diverse topic, so we don't we don't limit it to just a specific group of people, um, and we say the other group of people is amazing. So no, that's also the case. And I see, for example, I see, for example, on Facebook, there are also, for example, uh a couple of groups that we use for the research, that I use for the research. They are just for male, the the group name is male victims of narcissistic uh abuse, right? And they are this this group has over, I think, over uh one two million uh uh users in that in that group. Oh my gosh. And all of them are just male. No my gosh, no women are allowed in that group. And and I and I I I think, yeah, that's that's true. It can happen to anyone. And that was that was the one of the reasons that why we we uh decided to go with that.

SPEAKER_01 23:46

That's amazing. Um, I think that you know, the other thing that I find is that um victims of the narcissistic abuse, it um affects them differently, right? First male versus female. And so for me, I think it's really important when you have those separate groups. Like for instance, you all were guests for our daughters of narcissistic mothers, because it's it's a different, it's a different dynamic. The abuse is the same, but it's a different dynamic and it shows up in different ways. And for me, like personally, of course, I want to talk about daughters of narcissistic mothers, and I think it's really important to understand how it affects you further down the line in your relationships, in your work, all of that. And I think it's really important to talk about men survivors of any kind of abuse. And if we can start like making this so that it's not um shunned upon, it doesn't, and I think one of the things, besides what Dr. Romani said, that it can happen to anyone. I think that for all survivors and especially for men, what I want them to understand is it doesn't make them weak, it doesn't make them anything or anything like that. It just means that the narcissist is a little bit better at being a narcissist. And, you know, that gaslighting, that love bombing, all of that stuff, the Darvo, all of that is so strong. And it really like, excuse my language, it really fucks you up, like it really messes you up and it pops up at like crazy times. Um, Allie, you shared with us last time, and and Stephanie, you did too, there were parts where in the film that you like had to take a tick, take a moment to step back. Um what were kind of the feelings that that brought up for you? I know for me, when I I see any kind of abuse, and some of it might be my perimenopause, and some of it might just be the abuse, my eyes just like start leaking, and I start like having like these reactions very similar to when I was a child with my mom, and then that usually spirals down from there. What or can you share with us what stories really kind of brought up those emotions for you where you had to take a moment or be like alone to figure things out?

SPEAKER_05 26:20

I think uh for me, I had two moments where I had to step back a little bit. Um, one of them, um how do I just go? That was actually where I felt that Ollie was affected by something and I know what it was about. And in that moment, I had to be in my character as Sarah, and I really couldn't feel any empathy for him and couldn't step out of it. So I was just walking around, pacing around the room and trying to push it down so that I'm in character and not reacting to it. Um and then there was another situation um that a scene was really affecting me, and I had to step out for a moment and just um needed to clear my thoughts and distance myself from the character afterwards. Um and that also happened for um for other actors in between. And um we just really wanted to focus on them having the space when they needed the space to step out to call our um, like we had an intimacy coordinator on set, and she was also there for us as uh mental support if somebody needed some kind of support and needed to step out and talk to her, which was amazing, and so we were trying to just create a safe space for this and for this emotion to happen and for actors to step out. And I think um I think they felt it too and felt safe with it. I hope. But I think so, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:50

That's amazing, Ali Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:54

Um, for me there have been a couple of scenes that were that were triggering, and some of them were not triggering, but they they they reopened some some some wounds in me um from from from my experiences and my past. Um and in in in those moments, for example, for for one of one of them, I remember that um I was uh I was a little bit angry without any reason. And I asked my assistants to bring my monitor into a single room uh with a closed door, uh, and no one is allowed to come in. And I want to be the whole scene until we wrap this scene. I want to be alone and no one should come in, and I didn't go out also. Um and I remember that um after the first take, uh I went, I I needed to give give the actors give to Stephanie and Michael's character um uh some some feedback on how to how to make it better. And it was so tough for me that I couldn't track because if I just said one more word, I was broken in cry in front of 40 people. Right. And I had to, I had to, I had to stop, I had to uh stay silent for for two, three minutes. The the people are around me wondering what is just happening, where I'm just silent and I don't do anything, and then and then give give Stephanie and uh Michael's character Arbenda just word for word, every seven second, just one word. You just keep it together. Now keep it together, and and that what that was the process. That was that was one scene. The other scene that I can also tell tell to the audience, which scene was that, um, is the very very last scene of the film where the where the end credits appear. Um with that scene, with the last three dialogues of the main character. Um during the shoot, I was silently crying because it it reopened some old pains in me. And and I couldn't I couldn't help it, help help that. It came out of me and and I just tried to don't show it so obviously so people uh don't uh recognize that. Um and that was there there have been some scenes that that were like this, and and I tried to keep myself together for for those scenes um to not to breathe into the cry uh during the shoot.

SPEAKER_01 31:01

And the two of you, uh we'll make it more obvious. So the two of you are partners, and so I can't imagine how hard it was, Ollie, for you to watch Stephanie be Sarah. Like I can't imagine it. And I can't imagine how hard it was for you, Stephanie, when you were Sarah, to do some of those things in front of your director, who was Ollie. Like it that's a lot, you know. And I I first I just want to thank you, Sarah, or thank you, Stephanie, for like going in to be able to do the Sarah Sarah character because it's it's hard, especially when you're not that kind of person, it's like icky, right? And so so thank you for doing this. I think for you know, um survivors to really understand um where they are and to recognize those signs of the manipulation and the gaslighting. Um what do you hope that people take away from this when they see the manipulation, the gaslighting, or the other narcissistic tendencies? What are you really hoping that your the viewers take away from that?

SPEAKER_05 32:17

Uh, I hope people go away from this film. Like people that have experienced a narcissistic dynamic can go away and feel more seen and more understood and um also more valued in finding their own path and setting their boundaries. Because I think um we haven't really learned properly how to set boundaries and how to regularly check in with ourselves if something is okay with us or not. Like that's that that that should be something I think um that we should learn in kindergarten in school, like much earlier on as something profound. Um instead of just trying to please others all the time. Like I'm a big people pleaser too, that that's that's so I know what I'm talking about. And that's also something that I learned from Sarah's character because she's taking much more space than I'm taking, and she's not considering other people as much as I am, right? So that was a freeing experience, and I hope that people are going away and um yeah, just checking in with themselves more, and also what I would like for them is also to question uh the places where they have a power dynamic where they're more in power, um, that they consider the other side more and see like what is the other person really experiencing right now, and how can I approach them better, be more responsible.

SPEAKER_01 33:48

Perfect. Ali, what do you want them to take away?

SPEAKER_03 33:52

Yeah, um I want people to take away from the film that what is Sophani saying, that they recognize the dynamics, recognize the red flags at the big at the very beginning, and don't move forward with such relationships because the more you are, the more the more you stay in, the harder it gets to get out. And what I really from all of my heart want from this film and from people who watch this film is if they are not in such relationships, they don't tell the survivors why you can't get out, why you don't get out. Right. And and they don't tell survivors that's not true. You are you are you are not telling me the truth, you are lying about your partner, or you don't like him, or you don't like her, or so. No, because because many survivors they they stay they stay trapped in such relationships because they have no one to trust, no one to talk to. And they are missing that. And the people around them, after after uh after they come, they come to them twice or three times, the fourth times they they have no interest to hear what a survivor is saying because they say you are complaining the whole time and stop that. That's not complaining, that's what they are experiencing. Just sit, just see, just sit and hear them, uh hear them out. Let's let's them let that let them talk, let them let them the whole anger, the whole pain out. This way, this way they could have a better healing journey after they get out of his relationship, and they might be able to get resources they need because they have a still the capacity, and they are not, and because because every person has a specific capacity. If this capacity is rich, you have no possibility for anything else, and you are exploding, you are exploding without exploding. So they need to speak out so they their capacity that you reduces, and then then they have more capacity to to take on this on in these relationships because it's not easy. People should stop uh stop telling survivors why you don't get out of this relationship. If if that was so easy, then every then all all of them they were out uh already. So they they are very smart people, they they don't want that, but they have no option, they they are isolated, they are they are depending on on the money and the house and everything that the narcissists are providing. So they can't. So don't don't ask them, don't tell them, and just sit and hear them out what they are saying, what they are telling you, and try to see if you can help, because helping is not always giving money or giving services. You can you can just by being an ear for someone, you can help a lot. And that's what I think and what I what I what I from what I want from all of my heart for people who watch the film because because the film shows already that all collectors in the film are very alone, they are they have no one, nowhere to go, no one to go. Um, and it's it's tough for them already. So we don't we don't we don't we don't need to make it more bored, uh uh they make it make it worse for them uh uh to not to come to us. So that's that's what they really want.

SPEAKER_05 37:40

Well, I want to add too. Oh yeah, go ahead too. Um survivors are not weak. It's often made out that people that fall into the trap of a narcissist are weak. I I totally disagree with that. The the survivors that we met with their stories, like the way they described their stories and the way they showed themselves to us, it was very clear that these are some of the strongest people that we missed. And this is also what we try to portray with the characters. These people are not weak. And also when you stay in a narcissistic dynamic, if it's a family constellation or a romantic relationship, it also does not mean that the experience is not real. There are different kinds of circumstances why you still have to be in touch with that person, or different kinds of dependencies because you have family with them, children with them, or because it's your family. That doesn't mean that the experience of the abuse is not real.

SPEAKER_01 38:45

Yes. Well, and I think that oftentimes when survivors start to tell their story, I know for me, it was really minimized. So I would, you know, try to talk to my dad about it. I would try to talk to my grandparents about it. And there was a factor in it because my mom immigrated to the US, that it was, oh, she's just, you know, she's an immigrant, it's not a big deal, you know, it's she's just being mean. And I was like, no, you don't understand. This is not mean. I, you know, I have friends that are mean. I understand what it is. And so that that part of it, I know for me, where it shows up is like now, you know, I'm 49. And where this shows up for me is um like the way I look at myself. Like if I'm if I'm really, really tired, I'm having a hard day, like I'll think, oh my God, I look so ugly. And I know that I'm not, but it is it's a constant. Or we work with um my husband and I also own our own um consulting firm. So we work with a lot of um leaders, and those leaders have a lot of impostor syndrome. And dependent on like what kind of upbringing they had, if I think they might have had a narcissistic parent, their imposture syndrome increases because they just think that they're not good enough. And so I really appreciate the fact that you're calling out that survivors aren't weak, that sometimes it takes time, sometimes it takes like 10 times for people to get out. You know, for me, um, I tell a story of I knew the moment that I had my daughter that I couldn't stay with my mom because I did not want that to that cycle to continue. And for that was a hard thing. I wasn't the perfect mom, and I've become a better mom as time has gone on. And I also know I'm not a narcissist that like my mom. I I think that's the other thing is there's a lot of um gaslighting stuff that goes on to make survivors think that they're also narcissists. So it'll they'll mirror your behavior and they'll say, No, that's what you do. No, I don't do that. And so I appreciate you all putting it in bite-sized pieces for people to say, oh my God, that's a relationship I'm in, or oh my god, my best friend's in that relationship. So they can they can take from it what really helps. Why do you think, and and you know, so I'm in we're in America, but why do you think, because I think this happens everywhere in every society, why do you think society often like minimizes or misunderstands narcissistic abuse and compares it to other forms of abuse because it's not the same. I I know that for a fact, but why do you think that uh this happens where there's a minimization of what this narcissistic abuse is?

SPEAKER_03 41:47

For me, this is the this is because of the lack of knowledge in the in the justice system, most of the time, because for example, Lisa Sony, one of the experts in the film, she says uh she says also um a victim could react to abuse that could be recognized as aggression, but the victim is not aggressive, they are reacting to the abuse, and if the justice system is not is not educating, they could take that wrong and say you are per you are the predator and your narcissistic partner is the victim here because because in front of the justice system many many survivors that they can now be the react to the abuse and then let it out, and then when when they they they they let it out from from from this explosion because the capacity is rich already, so they want to let it go, it could look not really as a react to abuse for an uneducated justice system, then and it's it could be recognized uh uh in the wrong way. So that's that's in my opinion. Uh that that's uh what it is.

SPEAKER_05 43:14

And I think we're also narcissists a lot of times are charismatic, and so we're lured into that. Um, and then with social media, where it's so common to promote yourself and show yourself all the time, um present yourself in your best light and with all your achievements, I think that's even more common. As like more normal, normalized. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 43:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 43:46

Yeah. And then like Ali said, I don't think there's enough awareness, enough knowledge out there for for the different ways it can look like.

SPEAKER_01 43:55

Well, and I'm I'm I'm very hopeful that you know, podcasts like this. Your movie definitely that people can pick little pieces of it and say, you know, this is really, really something that I'm feeling. So let me dive deeper into it. And, you know, therapists definitely can help diagnose all those things. And then there's coaches that can help like you look to the future and change things. I know for us, one of the things that we really do. And I want to touch upon the fact, you know, films, if there's intimacy in films, there has to be an intimacy coordinator. And um, I think that it was really brilliant of you all because it sounds like you had a like a trauma-informed space in regards to your work. And I and what I always like to say is um, when you're working, like my trauma and how it affects me doesn't stop at nine o'clock in the morning when I start working. It's not like, oh, trauma, see you later. Like um that show severance. Like if the world was like severance, where all of your emotions disappeared during work, you worked and then they all get back uploaded, we would have a much better place, or not better, but a much different place. I think that having trauma-informed workplaces, they are hard, meaning you're putting forward other people. And oftentimes when you're working, you don't think of that. You just think of, I have to finish this, I have to finish this, let's get the task done. So I think that is definitely a really important thing. And I just want to commend you that your intimacy coordinators were there for even more than just the intimacy part. And that that I think is a big, big thing. Um, what was the moment that you thought while you were filming where you said, oh my god, people need to see this film? Like they have to see this, it's gonna change your life.

SPEAKER_03 45:58

That's a very good question.

SPEAKER_05 46:05

Now it's zooming in on your face.

SPEAKER_04 46:07

I know. That was really good. That was very funny.

SPEAKER_01 46:14

It's got just zooming in on you, on you thinking. That was really good though, because it like did this as you were thinking, it did this really slow.

SPEAKER_05 46:29

It was it was very dramatic.

SPEAKER_04 46:32

It was great.

SPEAKER_01 46:33

Well, and it must have been very profound. The thought people who are listening will have to go and watch the video of this now because I'll have to see that part. It was perfect.

SPEAKER_03 46:43

Um yeah, um, for me, the um one of one of the moments that that I say this this is people should people should watch this film was the scene where I I I can I can spoil it as well as it's no you don't have to spoil it, don't spoil it. Talk about your feelings in the scene, don't know. Um the scene was the the scene my my feeling was in that particular scene that a people a person can be so charming, can be so amazing, can do so much for you But they are looking for something and they are they are they are looking for for you to repay them and that that was the moment for me where I where where when I said when I said people have to watch this because no one is going to do you a favor is going to do you a favor just for just just because they love you the people the people who really love you they do everything without any expectations, they they don't ask for anything in return, they will they will just they will just do it, and if you don't repay or if you don't do anything in return, they don't care because they love you.

SPEAKER_01 48:25

Yeah, yeah. I love that, I love that, and I love the fact that there was the dramatic doom in because it made it even more like poignant when you said it. Um, Stephanie, what was your your thought?

SPEAKER_05 48:40

I think for me it's mostly the shifts, twists in in the dialogues were something is clearly not on the victim to blame, but then it's shifted in a way that confuses the victim and um leaves them in the confusion. I think I think these are the moments where I hope that it clicks for people that haven't experienced the narcissistic dynamic, that they understand, oh, oh, this is how it happens, and this is where the confusion is coming from.

SPEAKER_01 49:21

Um that I those are two real I I can't wait to see the movie. Like I every time, like I saw the concept trailer and then I saw the trailer and the teaser, and I like messaged Allie right away. I was like, oh my gosh, this is fantastic. There's like all this depth into it, and we talked a little bit about um the character Sarah and her partner Michael, and that there's also like a racial component there that I think is brilliant. I I mean, as a person who where we work in the the space of cultural intelligence and like how an organization works together based on that, I think that telling that story through that lens too is brilliant because there's a lot of power and privilege that happens surrounding that. And when you can remove that in a space, it makes the space so much healthier. So bravo at that, at choosing that. I think that was fantastic. You know, with people who are listening now that are still trying to change their narcissists, whether it's their mom, a romantic partner, their boss, a colleague, um, what do you want to say to them in regards to this? Like they are they're really hard, they're focused on trying to change that. What would you like to say?

SPEAKER_03 50:41

Um, if it would be me, I won't say anything because narcissists hate silence. They want, they want you to, they want you to blame, they want you to complain, they want you to become aggressive. So at the end they say, Yeah, you see, you are the problem. But but whenever you say nothing and you don't answer the questions, or they are you you don't say anything in return of their uh arguments or anything, they get more angry, they get more angry, they get more angry, and they explode at some point where they get sometimes physical. So, in that moment, I would say don't say anything, don't don't fight with them, just get out of there, go somewhere else, get away from them for the rest of the day and come back. Because because for me, that would be that would be the silent treat that the narcissists give to the to the to the survivors. Yeah, you give you give them them back. Yeah, the point is the survivors will blame themselves if they get the silent uh silent uh uh treat because they think they are the problem, but the narcissists they get mad at themselves and at the partner, and they want to blame you for anything, right? So um let's say cook them for the whole time.

SPEAKER_01 52:05

It's the damned if you're doing you're damned if you're don't. Like that's what we like say in regards to a like if a survivor has a narcissist like picking at them. So I mean, you might as well just be silent.

SPEAKER_03 52:18

Yeah, and and it's our response. Narcissists, yeah, narcissists love to to to are to uh to argue, love to fight, love to to to tell you you got a problem, that's that's because of you, and so on. But um, but if they don't get get anything in return, so they have nothing to say. So that will make them crazy, and crazy that they can they can they can uh uh uh sit there and uh stop. I I tell you from my own personal experience, yeah. Yeah, from from my from my family experience. So I experienced it in my life. So as long as I was I was complaining, I was saying, I was yelling, I was screaming, everything gone, gone, gone, it's the fuel, yeah. And as soon as I was silent, suddenly escalated. But I had to leave. I had to leave the house. So I don't, I don't, I'm not in that situation there.

SPEAKER_01 53:14

Um I'm I'm glad that you left. Um, Stephanie, what would you say?

SPEAKER_05 53:19

Um I have I have two thoughts about it. Um something that I see uh that I see saw a couple of times is when a person identified that the other person is a narcissist, is that they're then kind of excusing the behavior, which is like it makes it like how do I say this? I think it can help to identify that this is why they're acting the way they're acting, but you shouldn't take it as an excuse because they're still harming you, and you shouldn't just walk away from the experience of them being bad for you in this moment. And then I think what could help is like I said earlier, to ask the questions to yourself um, is this really comfortable for me right now? Do I want to be here? What is what do I need from the situation? And if I have to be in the situation, what can I do for myself to make it better for myself, to protect myself? But but I'm also not an expert. That's that's just what I would say to a friend.

SPEAKER_01 54:24

Yeah, no, and I think that's great advice, even not as an expert. Like, I I think that you are probably more an expert because you have done this film than most, and being a supportive ear, because you know, one of the things that I I find really interesting, well, it's not interesting, it's very common, is that narcissists never go to a therapist. Like if you're like, hey, let's do couples therapy, hey, let's do families therapy, because they like do not like it because they're gonna be diagnosed. They're either gonna be diagnosed or the therapist is not gonna be trained at all. And they're gonna say, What? Why do you why do you think your partner is a narcissist? They're so kind, they're so blah, blah, blah, they're so all those things. And that is even more dangerous.

SPEAKER_03 55:17

Go ahead. Yeah, there is there's also a problem with the therapy because narcissists make the partner go to therapy. Yes, make the survivor go to therapy, and after the therapy session, if there is any court situation or any any hearings or anything, yes, they use that against the survivors.

SPEAKER_01 55:35

Yes, all the time. It's all the time, and often in court systems, especially when you're dealing with like let's say a divorce and you have kids, then that that therapy session is used. And and in another uh episode, we're gonna have some people who are like family court experts. There's really this thought process to, I mean, court is a business, like let's be honest, right? Like, court is there to make money. So if uh a person says, here, look at this therapy report, like you said, Ollie, look at this therapy report. Of course, it's gonna figure out how to keep the conflict going. And that that isn't good for anyone. Like, here's what I will say about the justice system. Sometimes it works really well, but when it doesn't work well, it works really, really bad. It's like herbal. Sometimes I get it right and sometimes it's really bad. So I really, I really, really appreciate that. Um, I cannot thank you enough for your time. Can you tell me just kind of when this is gonna we have the watch party that's coming up? And that's gonna be happening. You have your premiere in Berlin at the beginning of April. Um, tell me what then, um, how people besides the watch party and the premiere, how else they might be able to watch it.

SPEAKER_03 57:01

Yeah, um for the watch party, they can they can subscribe to to the watch party through the link that is in the description, the mail team uh im dash film slash watch party. And the premiere is in April in Berlin, the international premiere, and the film will be released soon after the premiere. We can't tell the date right now, the date is fixed already. And um, there will be the option to stream the film uh at home and also be able to watch it in cinemas, in in selected cinemas, selected theaters. We will we will publish that first exclusively for the people on the watch party list. Okay. And uh and after after uh some days to one week or so, we will publish it uh publicly on all social media accounts so people uh people uh uh find out when the film coming is coming out and where it's coming out. About the where about the where it's coming out, the film will be available on Aleph Cine Stream, um uh TV audio streaming platform uh from our own company.

SPEAKER_04 58:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 58:14

Um in between many other films that we are offering, uh, it will be developed right now, it will be soon available. And yeah, um that's uh that's it. There are good news underway very soon. Um, and the people who are subscribed to the watch party, they get the access to these inform to this information before anybody else. Um so um yeah.

SPEAKER_05 58:40

Perfect. Yeah, the only thing that I can add is that you don't have to wait too long.

SPEAKER_01 58:44

Okay, good. Fingers crossed. I'm so excited. Um, so please subscribe. I'm gonna put the link in this by the time this is released, it'll be in the show notes. Follow um the Instagram account for both I Love You My Narcissus and Us. And we'll be when the premiere comes up, we'll do all the things to help promote it. Um, Stephanie and Ollie, thank you for your continued support of the work that I'm doing. I am so honored to be able to do the work to support your work. Um, because I think that there's real change coming, and I'm hoping that we can help heal so many hearts from this. So thank you.

SPEAKER_03 59:23

Thank you so much for taking the time.

SPEAKER_01 59:27

Allie and Stephanie, thank you so much for joining us today and for doing the work to bring these conversations into the open. Films like I Love You My Narcissist are helping people put into language their experiences they've carried for years and the kind of visibility that matters. If you'd like to learn more about the film, make sure you follow Allie and Stephanie and sign up for the upcoming watch party so you can be a part of the conversation and support this important project. The information will be in the show notes. And if this episode resonates with you, please remember to follow Ray and share the podcast so other daughters and survivors can find the space too. Always remember, you're not crazy, you're not imagining things, and you're not alone. Thank you for listening to Beyond Mommy Dearest, and see you next time.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:16

Your skin is a part of your nervous system, and taking care of it is essential to overall balance. Our products are specifically formulated to nourish your skin and bring you closer to homeostasis with every use. Start feeling better in your body today with the Happy Cannabis.