Healing After Narcissistic Abuse: Rebuild Self-Trust, Heal Your Nervous System & Reclaim Yourself | Coach Denalee

Healing After Narcissistic Abuse: Rebuild Self-Trust, Heal Your Nervous System & Reclaim Yourself | Coach Denalee

Healing from narcissistic abuse is about more than surviving—it's about rebuilding trust in yourself, calming your nervous system, and reclaiming the life that was always yours.

In this episode of Beyond Mommy Dearest, Coach Denalee shares practical insights on healing holistically, setting healthy boundaries, rediscovering your identity, and finding safety after emotional abuse.

What You'll Learn

• How to rebuild self-trust after gaslighting
• Why nervous system healing matters
• The role of boundaries in recovery
• Why healing isn't linear
• The difference between healthy conflict and emotional abuse
• How to reconnect with your authentic self
• Why safe, healthy relationships support healing

If you enjoyed this episode, please follow the podcast, leave a review, and share it with someone who may need this conversation.

Healing is possible. You are not alone, and your story doesn't end with survival—it begins with reclaiming yourself.

Connect with Noelani | Beyond Mommy Dearest

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Connect with Coach Denalee

https://www.youtube.com/@EatMoreChocolateProductions

https://www.holisticnarcrecovery.com

https://www.instagram.com/holistic.trauma.coach/

https://www.skool.com/holistic-recovery-from-abuse-5475/about?utm_source=ig&utm_medium=social&utm_content=link_in_bio

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

You're listening to the Beyond Mommy Daris podcast, where we talk about growing up with narcissistic moms, how it shapes your nervous system, your relationships, and your sense of self, and how to heal without shame.

SPEAKER_00 0:12

I'm your host, Nelani Pearl Hernandez. This episode is sponsored by the Happy Cannabis, body products designed to help you on your healing journey by supporting your nervous system with every application.

SPEAKER_02 0:26

Have you ever wondered if you'll ever fully trust yourself again after narcissistic abuse? In today's episode, I'm joined by Coach Dina Lee as we explore what real healing looks like. From rebuilding self-trust and regulating your nervous system to creating safety within yourself. If you're ready to move beyond survival and truly reclaim your life, this conversation is for you. We also got to know each other a little bit. And uh and I I don't record those portions because you know, a lot of times we talk about really vulnerable stuff, although we share a lot of the vulnerable stuff when we do the podcast. Some of the stuff just really helps us get that connection. And so I appreciate you. I appreciate everything you're doing to help heal the world. So thank you so much for being here.

SPEAKER_01 1:26

I'm happy to be here. Thank you for finding me and for inviting me.

SPEAKER_02 1:29

Yeah, definitely. You know, what first led you into the work of supporting survivors of narcissistic abuse and this betra betrayal trauma?

SPEAKER_01 1:39

Well, I think that there is, you know, if there is anybody on this earth who has not been in any kind of abusive relationship at all, I would be surprised, right? Yeah. And as it's come to light, you know, what is abuse, what isn't abuse, what are mistakes and what's intentional, or what is self-surring, like as that's come to light, I'm like, we all need healing and we all need, you know, something that can help us with forward motion. So I kind of fell into the business itself and then and then started my own coaching business. I I was coaching for another company as a contractor for a while. And then I was like, there were there are I have my own personal belief system and my own personal experience that I bring in in a in a system with that's um, you know, that that is that I have to navigate how I coach according to somebody else's value, you know, which makes sense in a company. I found it better if I go off on my own and do it the way that feels instinctively right to me. So I started my own business, which is holistic recovery, and it's been great. I've been able to tap into individuals, you know, what uh what they express that they need and they desire. And then I feel like I have been able to full on coach them in a way that feels authentic and true to me.

SPEAKER_02 2:59

Yeah, you know, one of the things that I think is really important when people are out there looking for a coach, um, whether it is an executive coach or a coach where it's narcissism, narcissistic abuse recovery, is finding someone who really meshes with you. Yeah, like therapists, you don't have to take the first one. Like you can shop around to see who works best. And you know, we were just talking about this earlier, and I often say it that um there is a charcuterie board of healing, and what might work for the first six months might not work for the next six months, and so you can move around and feel what fits best. And I really like the fact that you, you know, started somewhere and then went off on your own because I think there's an epidemic in the US about cookie cutter being everything.

SPEAKER_01 3:48

If I can make a cookie cutter averb, yeah, exactly. It's the it's the this is your problem, then this is the answer. And I just no, it doesn't work like that.

SPEAKER_02 3:59

I you know, and I I used to when we did a lot of um education work, I used to uh you know bang on the drum about that because not every education system works similarly similarly for people. We see that um, you know, now with the idea act um with disabilities, some disabilities need something, that same disability might need something else where somebody might not need it. So I believe that, and in my experience, that healing is on a spectrum, and you hop on wherever it fits best, and then you heal. And you know, because of that, I think that the work that I've seen you do on Instagram, and we will make sure to put your website and your Instagram and whatever other social media you have um in the show notes. Um, can you tell me if there was like a specific moment where you realized that healing needed approach to be approached more holistically, not just mentally or emotionally, but in a in a whole of a human?

SPEAKER_01 5:00

Sure. Yeah. Um, what happens to us in life is one thing. And and everybody has stuff happen to them. What we do with it, we do most effectively with our whole selves, right? So it does what happens to us generally will affect us um emotionally, physically. Whatever affects us emotionally also affects us physically, spiritually, socially, like in every way. And if we want to really, if we truly want to heal and not live as a victim, right? Whether that's at work or in a relationship or in the neighborhood, if we truly want to heal, we need to use our whole selves to do it. And we need to do it intentionally, with purpose, and you know, tenaciously, with resolve to keep trying, even when one thing doesn't work, we still use that whole part of ourselves, you know, this part, this part, this part. So we use our whole whole selves in getting to, you know, the end of where we want to be, which actually there never is an end. It's a journey we continue to progress and become.

SPEAKER_02 6:06

Well, and I think that's really important because when um my husband and I also own a consulting company that works with nonprofits and executives. We do strategic planning and executive coaching. But one of the things that like elevates us um apart from others is it's not just one thing. We want to know what your traumas are, we want to know your experience in your family so that we can help you in that holistic way create what leadership looks like for you. Because it's you know, it's not like severance. We just talked about that. It's not like severance. We don't download our personal brain, put it aside, it never comes into our work brain. I mean, in severance, they start to think about their personal lives. That is the whole idea in regards to severance. It's we're humans don't work like that. And even like I I got a little paper cut. I was it was my um son's birthday this week, and I got a paper cut wrapping his gifts. I don't know how, but I did. And then the next day I was like cutting citrus fruit, and I was like, ouch shoot, right? And who would think that a tiny little paper cut might affect your cooking, but it does. So everything affects everything, and I think that's really the gist of it. You know, many survivors really struggle um when they start to um work on trusting themselves after years of like gaslighting or the manipulation. I know personally for me, after you know, 18 years of or probably 17 years of this narcissistic abuse for my mom, I've had I have, I still have challenges trusting myself. And so, how do you really help people reconnect with their intuition? And I point to my stomach because that's my where my intuition sits, and the perception of um what really is reality?

SPEAKER_01 8:00

So that um that's interesting, that's a great question. It requires some real strong discipline. So we have, like we were talking about, there are parts of ourselves, we're made up of many different parts, and we have got to pull out of in order to trust again, we've got to pull out of that gut, that even that heart, and look at things more from a bird's eye view and ask ourselves these questions. So, in trusting myself, you know, as far as oh, I want to reach out to this person, but what are they gonna think? Or what we say, what are my intentions? Um, and what are my expectations, right? Yeah, if we can relieve or uh alleviate expectations, get rid of expectations because we can't control anything other than you know ourselves, right? We all know that. So if my intention is pure and I'm taking all of the information that I have about whoever I'm interacting with or whatever choice I'm making, um, and and doing it logically with pure intention, whatever the result is, it's just gonna be. So we trust ourselves that, you know, no matter how much I second guess myself or doubt myself or you know, lean on somebody else, the result is still gonna be whatever it's gonna be. I'm not right, my lack of trust is not going to make it be anything else. Right. So when we can release that, it's an acceptance and just saying, um, you know, I'm not gonna get everything right, but my intentions are pure. Therefore, I can trust myself.

SPEAKER_02 9:29

I love the um, I'm not gonna get everything right because I think that for a lot of narcissistic um survivors, that's you know, the talk in their head from whoever the abuser was is you're an idiot, you're not gonna get this right. You're not gonna get everything right. You're not, it's not humanly possible. And it's that intention part is what that intention is good. Now, if the intention is not good, or if the impact of what you do, if it's a relationship-wise, then that's a conversation to to really kind of reflect in yourself to say, okay, my intention, I thought it was good, but maybe it wasn't. So let me reflect on that. Okay, based on that now, of course I was gonna get that impact in the in whatever conversation it was. You know, we talk a lot about nervous systems um and just the utter exhaustion. I think that um there is a lot, just life is lifing right now. And so um, what do you see that are some signs of someone's um nervous system is that they're still living in that survival mode, even after the relationship, whatever that narcissistic relationship has ended?

SPEAKER_01 10:44

Yeah, okay. So there's I I feel like this is several questions in one, and I'll tell you why. We are made up of, you know, we're made up of a lot of things, basically water, salt, and energy. You know, that's life, right? And um, when our energy is disrupted, we our bodies feel different. They feel our bodies feel unsettled, sometimes sick, sometimes, you know, incapable of taking care of doing what it's done, housing our spirits, our souls, right? Um, and so when we are off kilter in that way and looking at it again holistically, then we can know okay, there's more work on my end to do. And it has nothing to do with the other person changing, and it actually doesn't even have anything to do with the other person getting out of your life or you removing yourselves from them. Does it help? Yes. Removal from abuse, yes. We need the boundaries, we need that protection. Absolutely. But we're never gonna be free from every abuser. We anybody we interact with is a potential abuser, if they're self-serving and they want to control us, there that fits that category, right? And so our goal is to strengthen ourselves. So if I'm dysregulated in any way, my job is to re-regulate, and that can be been years beyond, you know, yes, yes, yes, yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:09

I think you know, one of the things that's really important is that people you know, and I don't know if you experience this, but people you work with, a lot of the narcissist survivor, narcissistic abuse survivors that I've dealt with are like, how long is this healing gonna take? And I'm like, so it's not linear, it's gonna take some time, and you're never gonna be healed. And I I often use my experiences so that they can see because you know, I'm super resolute. Now we talked about, you know, um, in regards to like healing relationships, I'm like no contact. My mom was crazy abusive, like abusive, medically abusive, psychologically abusive. There was a lot of stuff, and I know for me in the family that I have built over the last 12 years with my amazing husband, um, that she would come in and ruin that in less than 30 days. So for me, right? I'm going to protect that with my life, and that means that I'm no contact with her. I think though, for a lot of people, maybe they're low contact. Yeah. Or they're, you know, um, they're no contact, they want to be contact, they want to resolve that. And that's what I say is that is fine if that's what they want to do. Totally fine. They know their body, they know all these things. What I always say is if you know that you are going to deal with someone who is high conflict, who is a narcissist, if you're gonna watch a show that has a lot of narcissism, give yourself a couple hours to recover from that. Yeah, because because it triggers, right? It triggers like my husband and I were just having a conversation. I don't remember exactly what it was about. I remember the feeling, but um, there's this really cute meme that I have up on my Instagram of this dad giving this little girl a hug, and she's he's like, I want and she's crying, she's she's learning how to swim, she's crying. And he's like, Okay, let's say your affirmations. I'm brave, I'm beautiful, I'm brilliant, and she's crying. And it's this it that is my husband to a T with me and our three daughters and our son. That is who he is. So we were having a discussion, and I can't remember exactly what it was about, but we he said something, and I said, Holy shit! I haven't talked to my mom in about 11 years. Holy shit, she put that in my brain. Oh my god, why why why am I doing this? Yeah, why am I, you know, whatever it was? And I like I started crying. Some of it was because of perimenopause, but most of it was because I was dealing with this specific feeling. And he said, It's okay. You have you acknowledge this, it's okay, and now you move on. And I was like, Oh my gosh, that's how you heal. Yeah, I was I had an interview yesterday or on Wednesday with Mark Vicente, and we talked about love being the healer of narcissistic abuse, and not love from the narcissistic abuser, because fuck them, but but love from someone else, right? You're never gonna get it, but love from someone else, love that is that unconditional, um real seeing love, and it could be a love from a child, love from another parent. If you are lucky you have one narcissistic parent and one healthy parent, um, or love from a partner, like for me, it was love my husband's love because unfortunately my poor dad had a mother wound and was just you know ran over. So, you know, and that's his his thing to deal with. But I, you know, that love heals all. Yeah, and I think that's a really important thing. Um, you know, you talk a lot about safety, and we were, you know, love is a part of that safety, but why is feeling safe in your body such a critical part to healing?

SPEAKER_01 16:08

Well, it actually is healing. The safety is healing, and and I think let me, I'm I'm gonna turn this conversation just a little bit with that question. Go for it. I think that often once we identify what's going on, once we are like, oh, no wonder I have felt this way for X amount of time, years, months, days, like it could be anything. No wonder I've felt this. I can now put a name to this, this, and this. You know, this is gaslighting, this is manipulating, whatever, all these things, therefore, this has been abuse, and so I feel this way. At that point, at that point of recognition, our goal should be to get to safety so that we can heal. That means we need yes, so we we've got clarity. We can name it. And so that disengaging, that pulling back emotionally enough to protect ourselves. So that means our own what will we do, what won't we do? Our own boundaries, not rules for them, our boundaries for us. Right. Once we do that, we are in a place of safety and we have already begun healing at that point, okay? And and we are more empowered than we think we are. Being with an ambush will whittle you down to really far. You know this. I know that so many people know this, right? Right, but we have we have never disappeared, we have shrunk and we have these layers of protection on us. And our job is to peel away those layers, and blue is still there. It is there, we can do very deep. Yes, and it's up to us to do it. And we can use help, we can have friends, we can have coaches, we can have therapy, you know, whoever we need for help, clergy. There's all kinds of people who can help us. Ultimately, it's us, it's you, yeah. We have the power, we have the power. Yeah, okay. I just think that's overlooked too much.

SPEAKER_02 17:53

Yeah, it's like a hundred percent. I believe you, right? Because I think that, and that's part of the narcissist's mindfuck. They make you think that you're not strong enough, even though you are that you're there, and it's just the layers of the onion to come out to bloom. I mean, it's literally that's all it is, and I think that I mean, I don't want it to sound like it's not a lot of work, it's a lot of freaking work to heal. It's a lot of work, and it cats.

SPEAKER_01 18:20

Yeah, the process is simple. It is peeling back the layers and blooming, yeah, but it's not easy. And and so if we make that distinction and we say part of the clarity is still part of it is naming what's gone on, but the other part of the clarity is seeing the truth that we that we're in charge of us and and accepting that. And when we accept that, nobody else has power over us anymore at that point.

SPEAKER_02 18:44

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SPEAKER_01 21:35

Yeah, and and you mentioned the labels, like we it the labels actually in the end, I mean, they matter as far as us having clarity. But when we continue to label and and we could like you said, just because somebody's not a narcissist doesn't mean they're not an abuser. But but if we go, if we whittle that all the way down to, you know, what is the intention? Is uh this person is trying to control me, then sure, I can call it narcissistic. I can call it a I could call it whatever. I just know I need to get safe from that. But if somebody is making a mistake, that's an entirely different thing. Right. That is being human. And so, so, you know, imperfect parents, imperfect friends, imperfect bosses. Like we can go anywhere. If we can have a relational conversation with someone when they've hurt us, if they stop hurting us once we tell them, that's not a truth. That's not narcissism.

SPEAKER_02 22:27

Okay. That's not. Yeah. I think that's really important to say because what narcissists do is if you say, Here's your boundary, they go, Oh, that's your boundary. And they jump right over it. And I think if someone really loves you, if someone really values you as an employee, if someone values your friendship, and you say, Okay, this is a boundary. I this is not our someone is really professional. I don't I don't want you to cross this. They say, Okay, great, that's your boundary. Let me take a couple steps back. I'm back here. And that I think is really important. Now, what I will say as a parent with my daughter who is 30, is she is like the mastery boundary maker. I don't know where she got it from because probably because I didn't have any and it just let me run over all over me. But she's really good about that. She's like, okay, I'm I'm overwhelmed. If we're in a situation we're going through something, if we're having a conversation, she'll say, can we pause on the conversation? I'm overwhelmed. Um, let's come back to it, but let's put a pin in it. And I'm like, damn, she's really an adult. I you know, I think of her a little teeny tiny baby always, but I was like, dang, that's a that's an adult move. And she, you know, we when she was 17 and 18, uh probably 16, she didn't say nice things to me. I think, you know, some of it is being a teenager and developmentally, they're supposed to act like that. I mean, it's you know, every psychological book says it. They're supposed to act this way, they're supposed to challenge that stuff because with you, they're learning what is right and what is not right. Um, and she said some crazy things to me where I was like, uh no, uh-uh, that's not the no, we're not doing that. And the growth from that 16-year-old to uh now 30, it's tremendous. Wow. And and that I think is a really important thing, is your parents might seem like they're being mean when they're saying, hey, be home by 11 p.m. And there are multiple things that layer up into that. There, you know, is legal responsibility because you're under 18. There is, you know, oh, you're, you know, 16, you can't be out past 11 o'clock because that's dangerous, you know, all those things. And I I think there is this thought process, and I I saw it with a lot of my daughter's friends where they were like, Well, my parents being, you know, unreasonable or they're being narcissists. I was like, no, that's not a narcissist. Let me tell you the things that I experience, and they're like, Oh, my parents are not like that at all. I was like, then they're not a narcissist, they're just you know, maybe strict parents. Yeah. Right. And and that, and what I want to say is that's not to dis say that maybe something that one of someone's parents did wasn't like something that you liked, and you can take that to them. And we actually interviewed a parent who is no contact with two of her kids. She is not a narcissist, she's been to therapy, asked to be diagnosed, and she was an emotionally, she labels herself as an emotionally immature parent, and it'll be out on an episode. But what she says is uh the biggest thing that you can tell, let's say, with a parent who maybe didn't have all the tools, like y'all don't come with a manual, right? There's no book, right? No one does, but and well, not but and we make mistakes, and sometimes, like for me, I was younger, so maybe I was emotionally immature. She made me mature real fast, but I was like in the very beginning, and this person said that, and she said, What she says the difference between her and let's say a narcissist is if one of her children comes to her, or if like she'll talk about her kids on her podcast, she'll say, I hurt them, I hurt them, and I'm taking responsibility of that. My intention wasn't to hurt them, but the intention doesn't matter. Yeah, the intent or the intent doesn't matter, it was the impact of what I did, and for that impact and for doing it, I am incredibly sorry. Yeah, and I think that's a big thing. Yeah, now if a parent can't do that and they're like, fuck you, yeah, what blah blah blah blah blah, then they're a narcissist, like and take your time, separate for a little bit. Or if, like for me, you need more time, then you know, do that. But for me, I don't think I'll ever go back. And and that's a hard thing to work through as an only child because I think that's a loss. Yeah, it's aging and all that stuff. And I jokingly talked about perimenopause earlier, and you know, my mother-in-law is amazing in my choke, like chosen family, but she wasn't helpful when I talked about perimenopause. She just said, I just got hot and cold. I was like, come on, woman. So it's you know, it's it's not quite the same, but I'm incredibly blessed that I do have that. And and I will I do want to say too that the healing community, which you are a part of, um, you know, the healers, the coaches, they have been instrumental in helping, not just the um Instagrams or the TikToks or the Facebooks, but it's like being able to talk to them in these settings that's really important. And my hope is that people who listen get to hear it and send us questions. Like, we'll either set you up for time with us or we'll say, Oh, yeah, we can answer that really quick. We are we don't shy away from questions. So definitely do that. You know, is there some misconceptions that you see that people have about healing from narcissistic abuse that you've experienced?

SPEAKER_01 28:32

Well, let me think. That's a good question. I I think, you know, like you said, we don't ever really get healed. I I mean, I'll I'll challenge that just a little bit. I think that we can, I think there is a misconception that we're damaged. And I just don't think we are really damaged. I think that we we, like everybody on this planet, everybody has had pain um due to somebody else's choices, um, whether they're intentional, whether they're self-serving for that person, or whether they're accidental. And and what we do with it, like that's an opportunity for growth, which is the healing. And um, and I think that what like I'm just gonna jump back on that bandwagon of we have the power to heal. We have the resources in this day and age, there are resources everywhere. Now you get, like you said, we've got an entire, like a giant array of choices of what resources we're going to use. And we need to look at it and say, does this fit me in my situation now? You know, and and what's going to work. So, so perhaps the misconception biggest misconception I would say is that I can't heal, I'm too damaged. Um, they they did so much harm to me. That's like that's choosing victimhood. And none of us have to be, none of us have to be that.

SPEAKER_02 29:54

No, I think that's the biggest thing that that I would say in regards to when people listen to these podcasts, is just because it happened to you doesn't mean that you're a victim. Yeah, these people are predators. Yes, you are victimized, yes, but you are not a victim, you are a survivor, and these people are freaking predators. Like all of the documentaries that are out right now, and you watch, you know, oh, they did this and they did this. Um, they're scanning for people to do this to. And you know, one of the things that we tell our girls is don't be nice, be kind. Kind has boundaries, nice is a people pleaser, right? Yeah, and so we we say that because that helps them with that mind switch, right? To say, I'm gonna be kind. And this is a boundary, and you can have boundaries. And if you think that your boundary, like you want to talk about your boundary, let's have a conversation about it because we can help you figure out what's best for you. And you know, I think that is really, really important. Um, you know, some of the other work, and we'll we'll touch about on it a little bit, is um, you know, you've been trained with high conflict divorces and mediation. We um we have done the same work. We do mediation in we decided to steer away from divorces for right now and focus on um on mediation inside um companies. And I think that there is a misnomer when it comes to this is that divorce has to be messy. Yeah, and it totally doesn't, like it can be real simple. And and I whenever I think about this, I say that yes, you and your ex didn't work out, he sucks or she sucks, right? Whatever. But what you have is if there is this high conflict divorce, most of the time it centers around co-parenting with another person. It's and narcissistic tendencies come out. If you're dealing with a narcissist, that's a whole nother issue, but oftentimes you're only dealing with narcissistic tendencies. And if you are, I would say to all the narcissistic tendency people, love your kids more than you love yourself.

SPEAKER_01 32:14

Yeah, if only we could make it.

SPEAKER_02 32:17

Yes, I know if I can sprinkle that all over the place, because I in here's a really like a good like side by side. So my parents got divorced. I think I was about 15. My husband's parents got divorced, and he was about three or four. So we're around the same age, and my mother cannot be in the same room with my father. It's crazy. 15 years ago, they were together, or maybe about 10 years ago, they were together 10, 12 years ago. They were together in the same room for my daughter's graduation. And the venom my mom was pointing at him. It was crazy. Both of them remarried, had their own families at that point. I was like, uh, yeah, what? And I basically said, knock your shit off. This is not about, and I wasn't pointing at my dad because he's actually pretty chill about that. I'm like, this has been about you, this is about your granddaughter, and if you can't deal with that, go somewhere else. Yeah, and so I think it was about two hours she could behave. That was it, just two hours, right? Whereas there is my um mother-in-law, her um husband, so my husband's stepfather and her husband, and we actually and her and his dad. We actually just celebrated my son's, my bonus son's 15th birthday, and we had the two of them well, his mom, his dad, his stepdad, his sister, and my daughter all on the phone so we could all sing happy birthday. Yeah, and they all knew about it, and they didn't care because they love him, and that's it. You don't have to be best friends with them, but you know, just because I think one of the things that people don't really think about is when you do that, and and then I'll get off my soapbox. When you show how much you hate the other person, you are making it okay for your kids to hate themselves because they're half of that person.

SPEAKER_01 34:20

Yeah, that's so sad, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 34:23

Yeah, it's incredibly sad. So love your kids more than you hate your ex. That's that's all I can say.

SPEAKER_01 34:30

That's such a good phrase.

SPEAKER_02 34:31

Yeah, yeah, that's all I could say. You know, um, when we were speaking earlier, you were talking about some of the work that you're doing with your production company. And I would love for you to talk to me a little bit about what inspired you to create a production company. Um, what is your current um projects and what kind of projects are you looking to like continue doing?

SPEAKER_01 34:54

Oh, okay. Well, uh, so I I work mostly with women in my coaching business. I do work with some men, but I also have I come from a large family. I'm number three of six children. And I have I have two sisters. I'm in the middle of those two sisters. We're all older. Um so I um so that's kind of the background of the foundation of this, but this is I I wanted to create a webs series that has to do with older women. I think that's kind of a forgotten group of people as far as entertainment targeting them, right? I agree. Entertainment that's targeted towards them is not stuff that I watch. And I'm in that age group. Yeah. So um, so I I created a show called Sisters Not Saints. It's just it's a web series that's gonna premiere on YouTube probably after this podcast airs. But we'll make sure to link to it. Okay, it's about these three older sisters, loosely based on my family, um, um, who come together when their dad dies, the last surviving parent dies. And so they come and figure out how to navigate adult sibling relationships. So the relationship thing is pretty, you know, it's pretty fun. I think it's there, it's funny, it's emotional. They fall back into their childhood roles, you know, the oldest, the middle, the youngest, um, and all of that stuff. So so I created it uh because I'm a creator and it's fun and I love it, but also because I see it as a way, you know, the story is meant to entertain, but more than that, it's meant to be relatable. We need people, experience stories that we can relate to so that we can't have an outlet for our a release for our own emotions. This is normal, or oh, this is extreme. I'm extreme too, you know, whatever it is. So I had to create a production company to house that. And I created Eat More Chocolate Productions because I couldn't think of it. Oh my god, I love it. I love it. Thank you. I love it. So so I can so I'm I've been releasing teasers and mini trailers for the series. So awesome. For those are out there, I'll give you the link for that. Yeah, yeah. But I I feel like this is like kind of a natural turn and twist for what I've been doing. I've been working with women, a lot of them older, by the way, women, older women who are like excited about life, even in their you know, 60s, 70s, and 80s. Yeah. While they've gotten gotten to the state of consistent healing, right? Daily healing.

SPEAKER_02 37:22

Yes. You know, one of the things that I have discovered um about perimenopause is that we don't care club is real. It's absolutely real. Because that is for me, I probably was in perimenopause before, but it was like maybe 10 years ago. Cause it's but I haven't had an experience like the anxiety or the hot flashes or anything like that, or the sleep. The sleep was the worst until about two years ago. And so, but what I did have at that age was like a I don't fucking care what anyone thinks about me. I really don't, I really don't, and that is a really important thing, and it's important, it's important, and also with great that great power, there's like great responsibility to to like you know, quote my um son's favorite superhero, Spider-Man. There, I mean, there's real truth to that, and you know, there's a lot of cultures that hold up older women um as those wise, like women to go to our culture, not so much, but that's okay. We can bring it back to stories.

SPEAKER_01 38:33

We can and we should. There's a reason why the older cultures do that, it's because we do all of us individually, but and then we look collectively, we gain in wisdom as we have life experience. And and this 100%. We we need people, we should be interconnected, yeah. Yeah, all of us.

SPEAKER_02 38:52

Well, and there's that phrase, right? Um, wisdom is waste. What is it? Like it's wasted on the youth. Yeah, yeah. Wisdom is wasted on the youth, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because like if I knew what I knew now about everything that in my life and took it back to 18-year-old me, oh my god, I would be like totally different. The decisions I make, the all that stuff. And what people don't understand is they have that in their uh matriarchs and their patriarchs. Like, I think that is a really important thing.

SPEAKER_01 39:24

They have access to that.

SPEAKER_02 39:26

If they would just tap into it, yeah, and you know, um, even if they're not your your mother, your father, they're an uncle, they're a tia, they're a teo, they're a you know, a cousin, they're a neighbor, anyone, just sit talking to them for like 20 minutes is a really is a really amazing thing to sit and hear some of those stories. And I think that you know, it's something that we've forgotten. And it's a part of the holistic barley. Yes, absolutely. It's a part of that whole thing because everything is born and everything dies, and there's all the things in between. So I think that is a really, really important thing.

SPEAKER_01 40:05

Um you know, I read a study recently that that people 64 and older are the happiest, generally speaking. They've done a study. I would assume so. Well, yeah, but then you ask why, like because they've you know, the men have lost their hair, the women now have belly rolls where they do like all of these things. Why the children have left home? Why are they so happy? And and you know, they figured out a little bit more about living joyfully, like that's tap into it, ask them, yes, you know, become connected with them.

SPEAKER_02 40:38

Yeah, I think that's that's really important. And I'm going to put a pin in our conversation in regards to family court and narcissism because um I'm gonna have a whole like episode on that. And so I really want to like I have a couple people in mind, so I think that we will have a really great conversation about family court, which I think is a really broken system right now, if I can say that um really clearly, it's it's really, really broken, and it's not made for um the kids, which is what it was there to be made for. It's made for parents and highly litigating parents. So it is so we'll have a whole other conversation about that. Um, you know, one of the things that um survivors I often hear about it, or I often hear, and I'm sure you do too, besides uh when am I going to be healed? Is I don't know who I am anymore. So, how do you begin to rebuild that identity after you've you know gone down to zero and seen that, you know, that little powerful you? How do you start to rebuild that identity?

SPEAKER_01 41:49

I love that question because this is the exciting part about healing. I love this. And uh Shannon Thomas in her book, uh Healing from Hidden Abuse, talks about this. And I hope I quoted the right person, but I hope I'm quoting the right person. But she talks about this being one of the stages of healing is that rediscovery, but for so many, because they were in uh an abusive relationship without knowing it from the time they were much younger, right? It's actual discovery. That it's not even a rediscovery. Who am I? Not just who was I, and how can I reclaim that, but who am I? And that's um that's exciting because you're now somebody who uh can take complete ownership. Uh you are autonomous, your agency is fully intact. You get to choose, and so as you discover, you know, uh, I really didn't realize that I love squirrels. Like, I mean, it could be anything, it just doesn't matter. But but I'm gonna sit here and watch the squirrels jump from limb to limb on that tree, and I get so much like just grounding enjoyment out of that as I sit on the grass and feel the earth, like I'm just making this up. This is not me, but I'm saying that we don't know. Every one of us has a part of us inside that we either haven't discovered yet or we feel like we lost and we're rediscovering it. Right. How do we do that? You start to trust yourself and just explore and and look forward, plan to look forward every day to it being a day of anticipation and discovery.

SPEAKER_02 43:17

Right. So, one of the things when you were talking about that is it reminded me of this guest we had. Her name is Laura Richards, and she does another podcast. Um, this is where our something I'll I'll put it in the show notes. Uh, this is where I'm at, I think is what it's called. And she said, one of the first things that I did when she left her narcissistic husband, and she was married for 30 years, 32 years to be exact, was have coffee in bed. She said, Yeah, she said I I did I was never able to do it before, but this is who I am. That's what she said. I am going to rest and have coffee in bed and you know, mull over the day. And then go. I don't have to rush. I don't have to be go, go, go all the time. And I was like, that is a really beautiful thing. And so every now and then you'll see a picture of her on social media with her and a donut with coffee in bed or a cookie with or a muffin. And it's it cracks me up every time I see it. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 44:17

But you know, that taps into something that's really important when rediscovering ourselves. Routine is important. So whatever that routine is, we we figure out some kind of a routine that we can be comfortable in that's a healthy routine, as opposed to you know our previous comfort zone of you know that um hypervigilance, that um frenetic energy. Like we instead create our own comfortable routine which allows those thoughts to come in and those you know, those those dreams and those hopes.

SPEAKER_02 44:48

Well, and I think that what's really helpful too when we talk about routine, because I'll talk about it on the other side, is as you begin your healing, the routine keeps you going, it keeps you doing the things that you need to do because routines are if you're doing your routine, it's basic. Like for me, I'm very routine-oriented. I wake up in the morning, I take a shower. While I've started um to understand my healing more, I spend more time in bed before I take the shower now. I don't feel like I have to get up and go and go and go and go. I'm not in a relationship where that is seen. Like it is okay to chill in bed for a little bit. Like it's not a bad thing. And so that's the what I I see um in my healing. And I know a lot of people do, you know. Um, if you are just at the beginning of your healing journey, um take a cup of coffee to bed, really. Like, really do the Laura Richards thing. Take a cup of coffee to bed and really think, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:48

Yeah, and and there is one other thing that's so important and free and takes no, you know, if you're still with your abuser, like they aren't even gonna know. You just breathe, you do intentional breathing before you get out of bed before you go to sleep. Some intentional breathing.

SPEAKER_02 46:02

Well, and I think for me, when um because I'm because I'm a glutton for punishment, so I'm always in high conflict situations with the work that we're doing, or you know, with the podcast, not that this is a bad conversation, but it's just like there's a lot of pressure that I put on myself. So I often take a pause and breathe. The reason why is because pause is not as long as you think that it is, it really isn't. And you need to breathe to get oxygen to your brain. It's just the way that we it's the way humans are, and so I um that is like one of the best tips. And we're gonna do a couple of um, we'll do a couple of Instagram posts, you and I will do some, and we'll just put it up so you y'all know it's it's breathing, like this is what you need to do. You need to breathe. You know, I always close with the same question, and um, I think that really centers it around um, you know, the survivors and those people are healing. But what's one thing that you want or hope every survivor of narcissistic abuse eventually learns to believe about themselves.

SPEAKER_01 47:14

Uh just believe in your own power, your own divinity, really. Like whatever your faith belief or lack of faith belief is, you have a you have a soul. Like believe that you exist. And and in that existence, you have the power to choose to be whoever you want to be, however you want to be that, that you've got that power. So claim it.

SPEAKER_02 47:41

And and I'll I'll even take it a step further. It doesn't matter what faith you are, but you have the agency. Everyone has agency. Yeah, everyone does, and from that agency, you get to choose where you get to go. And so, you know, we believe in you. So if you ever you need a pocket, Noelani, just put us in your pocket, just put us right in there with your phone, and just boom, right there, we'll be there for you to listen to us. I love that. So tell me um how they can find you, and then we'll make sure to put in the show notes. But your tell us about your production company where they can watch the series and the clips, um, also your website, and then your social media, and that way we'll also put in the show notes if they don't hear it.

SPEAKER_01 48:26

Okay, so a holistic they're gonna find me at holistic recovery the easiest through your show notes because it's a long name. It's holistic from narcissistic abuse and betrayal trauma. It's really long because I wanted to have it on it. Yeah, so they'll find me through your show notes there. And and I'm coached Dennelly. If you just Google me, um you'll find me. But the production company is new enough where I'll just throw it out there. It's Eat More Chocolate Productions. So on YouTube, it's just at Eat More Chocolate Productions. That's where you'll find me. On all the other social media, it's shortened. Eat more chalk, ch o c. That's it. At eat more chocolate. You can find me everywhere on that.

SPEAKER_02 49:05

Yeah, perfect. All right, you know, Dillon, thank you so much for being with me today. I really appreciate it. I know that we planned this a couple months out, but I really appreciate your honesty, your vulnerability. I appreciate you. I appreciate your raising hair. I appreciate everything. So thank you.

SPEAKER_01 49:22

You do good work. Thank you. It's been a pleasure to talk.

SPEAKER_02 49:26

It's been fantastic. Thank you so much. A huge thank you to Coach Dina Lee for sharing her wisdom and reminding us that healing isn't always about becoming someone new, it's about reconnecting with who you've always been. If today's conversation encouraged you, I hope you'll carry that reminder with you this week. You are capable of healing and you deserve to feel safe, whole, and at peace. Thank you for listening to the Beyond Mommy Daris podcast. If this episode resonated with you, please subscribe to the podcast, leave a five-star review, and share it with someone who could use a little hope today. To learn more about coaching, upcoming events, and our growing community, visit the links in the show notes. Until next time, keep choosing yourself, keep healing, and remember, you are worthy of love, peace, and a life beyond survival.

SPEAKER_00 50:17

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