Fresh Flavor, Easy Joy: Why A Quality Pepper Grinder Earns a Place in Real Kitchens

In this episode, Cindy brings on David Nelson from Finamill — a company that's aiming to change not just how we grind pepper, but how we experience all spices.

Together, they share the inspiration behind Finamill’s unique spice mill, from overcoming the frustrations of manual grinders to enabling home cooks to easily experiment with flavors. 

Dave opens up about the engineering journey that led to a simple, one-handed, pod-based system for fresh spices, making it easier than ever to switch between flavors — even for those with busy hands or mobility challenges.

The episode explores how Finamill solves common kitchen dilemmas, like messy grilling and lumpy spice shakers, while giving permission to play confidently with new spices and blends. Cindy shares her own evolution from seasoning with just salt and pepper to discovering a creative world of flavor, inspired by Finamill’s versatility.

Listeners will gain insights on the importance of fresh-ground spices, learn about happy discoveries when grinding unexpected ingredients, and hear how innovation and passion can make a kitchen tool into a staple for both professionals and hobbyists. 

If you’ve ever wanted to bring restaurant-level creativity to your home kitchen, or simply make cooking a more enjoyable part of your day, you’ll find encouragement and practical tips in this conversation.

Products featured in this episode:

Finamill products

Finamill Stackable Trays

For more thoughtfully curated joy, check out berryandbasil.com and follow the store for all the latest products, events and sales at @theberrybasil

Follow the show at @joycuratedpodcast (Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok) and make sure to subscribe to us on the podcast app of your choice. It helps us grow and share the story of all the brands we love. 

Transcript

Welcome to Joy Curated. I'm Cindy Peterson, co-founder of Berry and Basil, a thoughtfully curated kitchen store in beautiful downtown Chamberlain, South Dakota. Here we discuss food quality and real life without the pressure to get it perfect. I have real, honest conversations with makers and product experts to talk about how things are made, how they're meant to be used, and how thoughtful choices can make everyday life feel more confident and enjoyable. Welcome. Thank you for listening to Joy Curated at Very and Basil and Beautiful, downtown Chamberlain, South Dakota. We spend a lot of time thinking about tools and pretty things and what truly earns a place on our shelves. And generally speaking, if it earns a spot in the store, it earns a spot in our own kitchens, which can become a bit of a problem for obvious reasons.

Cindy Peterson [00:01:01]:
But today's brand that we're chatting with and product line is absolutely no exception. And when a lot of times people come in looking for a pepper grinder and they don't even know what they don't know, the many options. So, so today we're talking about the simple everyday tool and whether the goal was just to improve the typical pepper grinder or to rethink how we experience spices altogether. And I'm really excited to welcome Dave Nelson of Fina Mill. Dave, hello, hello, hello! You have quickly become one of my favorite people to chat with at industry shows and markets, and it's not just because you hand me coffee gift cards every time I get to see you, although that certainly doesn't hurt.

David Nelson [00:01:46]:
Guilty, right?

Cindy Peterson [00:01:50]:
It's the passion that you care deeply about what this product brings to real kitchens. And while that might sound dramatic, Adding flavor to everyday meals genuinely changes how we cook and how we gather. So let's start there. Was this just about fixing pepper or changing how we experience spices altogether?

David Nelson [00:02:12]:
I think the original drive for making the mill— so Alex Liu is the founder. He wanted to create a way to mill pepper that was not using your hands, so it wasn't manual. And part of that was he had worked with some industry professionals making spice grinders in the past, and he asked them, like, what do you think of the new spice grinder we made? And the gentleman says, I don't like it, I don't like to use it, it's too hard to turn it, and I don't have time for that. So that kind of set Alex and us on a mission to say, how do we improve this technology? You know, what, what can we do differently and what can we do better, to create value, to make it better. I mean, you know, to really improve it. Because when you look at spice grinders, you know, you have the old school, you know, tall mills that you turn, and then sometime in like the late '80s, mid-'90s, you had this electric mill that came along, and it didn't work so well. It worked okay. And then the next innovation was you turn it upside down and it grinds by itself.

David Nelson [00:03:14]:
And that was like the height of technology when it came came to grinding spices and we said we could do something better. So the initial thought was to take those disposable spice grinders and create a driver for it. So picture something like a hockey puck with a hollowed-out center that you'd click these salt and pepper grinders into and then squeeze it and the thing would grind it for you. And that was like, wow, that's a great idea. You just click the receptor, You click the bottle into the receptor and it grinds it for you. And I said, that was my small contribution, I said, no, no, I grill a lot, so I want to have my hands free, so I want the receptor to pick up the spice grinder, not the other way around. And it was like, oh, that's awesome, you know, great idea. So I, all I did was have a good idea and everybody else did the hard, hard work.

David Nelson [00:04:01]:
And that kind of is where Phenomill came up. And honestly, we were trying to do a great job with salt and pepper because that's the Those are the two that people use every day. And then once we had a working system, it was like, what else can we do with this? It's like, it's, it's a wonderland of possibilities now because this just didn't, didn't exist before. So I literally spent weeks in, in our office testing different spices and seeing how they ground and how they worked. And that kind of led to this whole idea of go way beyond salt and pepper. Because salt and pepper is, yeah, it's everyday, it grinds, it's great, but that's, you know, let's find something that, that we can use to inspire and to play with, frankly. You know, it gives you permission to play. And when you mentioned like earning a space and, and things like that, that really, really hit home for me because I remember in the early days I did have 3 or 4 manual grinders.

David Nelson [00:05:01]:
Sitting in my shelf. You know, one was for allspice, one was for pepper, one was for salt, one was for cumin, and it was a clutter. And this really solved that problem. I got really lucky that I get to, you know, work for a company that lines up with all of these values, you know, making a product that helps people use ingredients they may not use because it was impractical before. And then do it in a way that's fun. It's just fun to use. That's kind of where we got lucky, and that was kind of our drive. We wanted to create something to grind all kinds of different spices.

David Nelson [00:05:38]:
We weren't really dead set on this list of different spices we're going to grind, and then do it with one hand. So it kind of grew all from those, from those impetus.

Cindy Peterson [00:05:47]:
Wow, I just, I love the problem that it solves in so many ways where I, you know, when I'm talking to people in the store about the product and I totally start geeking out because I'm like, oh my gosh, this is what you can do with it. And I love it because it's so easy to switch the pods in and out. I mean, whether it's for a mom with a baby on her hip and she's switching from pepper and salt or, you know, my mom who maybe has some arthritis in her hands where it's such a gentle switch and gentle, you know, pushing down on the top. And the light, I mean, it's such a game changer in so many ways. But I think the problem that it solved for me that was a complete game changer is when I am seasoning meat to go out on the smoker or the grill and I want to rub it in. And I always hated, I had a pepper grinder specifically for grilling because here is a goopy hand with meat on it, and I am picking it up and, and grinding pepper. And, and so it was just one of those things where I could one-handed switch things over. You know, for the longest time I thought, well, I'm only going to have the two pods for primarily just use the pepper.

Cindy Peterson [00:07:06]:
Who needs— you know, I have my kosher salt, I don't grind that generally.

David Nelson [00:07:10]:
No need, it's not changing the flavor.

Cindy Peterson [00:07:11]:
Right, right. And so I just— but, but now there's so many more options where I want a finer grind for certain salt on certain dishes. And so what— besides salt and pepper, what is your favorite thing to use the mill for?

David Nelson [00:07:29]:
I use a ton of granulated, dried granulated garlic. Part of the reason I think that— because again, you're not totally changing the flavor of the garlic a lot, but you are dispensing it in a very precise and controlled way. Which I found has been a problem with a lot of shakers. And, you know, blends are another example of that. If you've got a good barbecue blend you like, you're in a shaker and you're going, you know, you're shaking it back and forth and it's going everywhere, and you're getting peaks and valleys of those materials. And often, like you said, then you take your hand and you rub it in, and, you know, that's the other— we call that the clean hand, dirty hand dilemma, right? But with the garlic, you know, a lot of people will take it in a big shaker or something, granulated garlic, and they'll dump it over their soup or whatever. And we're finding that a lot of that steam's getting up and going up inside your garlic container and creating this brick. So by the time you get through using your garlic, you got a nice big brick of material to work with that you throw out.

David Nelson [00:08:29]:
So I've, I put dried granulated garlic in there and then I grind that. So even if it starts getting a little bricky, it's still going to be ground right out. And I use it on everything. I mean, steaks, every— everything gets garlic, you know. That's a big one. And then coriander. I mean, coriander is a spice that I've used powdered forever, and I used it because recipes called for it. It's not that I connected with it as a flavor and I go, ooh, this is coriander, and imagining how that's going to affect my finishing dish.

David Nelson [00:09:04]:
I just dump it in because the recipe says to dump it in. And now when you have whole coriander that you're grinding fresh, you smell it, you have a different visceral experience when you're interacting with, with the spice, and you can feel the flavors and you can feel the control you have when you're using whole spices in a device like this. It's really elevating things. So coriander is a big one. And then believe it or not, I got one for Brew Lab and Barrel of fennel, a fennel seed that I just, I'm finding new places to use it all the time. Now my kids thought I was crazy, but I ground it over some vanilla ice cream. And part of that is I want sort of a blank canvas to really see what that spice is about, to really get to know it before I invite it to the party. So you put it on, you put it on a little ice cream and it's like you catch these citrusy floral notes and these undertones of other flavors that you would never get when you put it on a steak or something like that.

David Nelson [00:10:04]:
And then when you get to know the spice that way, now you're kind of using your imagination. You know, where will these flavors fit with other dishes and where can I use it? And so, yeah, fennel is another one that I never found myself using a lot. Now I do. I have a pod just for fennel.

Cindy Peterson [00:10:17]:
You know, I think that's one of the spices that I, you know, I love it with certain things. I love it with Italian sausage. I love it in certain flavors, but I have a an amazing steak rub from Spice Walla. And I was, you know, it has whole fennel in it. So I almost quit. It just wasn't the taste that I wanted on my steak until I put it in the FinaMill. And all of a sudden it is my go-to just because I can kind of, I don't get a whole bite of one spice or the other in some circumstances.

David Nelson [00:10:51]:
And that's a good, that's a very, very good point. Point and a big use that people kind of have overlooked. I learned this from the barbecue masters. They often have these rubs that they love, right? A rub for, say, a brisket, and they want to use it on a burger. Well, the rub is developed for a brisket, which is a low, slow temperature cook. So you're going to have some of those bigger chunks. You're going to have whole fennel seeds. You're going to have big chunks of that dried garlic.

David Nelson [00:11:18]:
Low and slow and smoke Not a problem. It's going to be great. But if you put that rub right on a burger and you put it at a high temperature, you're going to burn those little chunks. They're going to burn before they cook. So when you run it through the FinaMill, you even out all the sizes of all those little particles, and now they're going to cook at the same amount of time. You won't get these little burnt bits from your, from your rub. And the other thing I learned working at FinaMill, I didn't know this embarrassingly enough, you're supposed to bruise your herbs when when you cook with them. You take dried herbs out of the bottle and you're supposed to grind them up a little bit and release those flavors, and I never did that.

David Nelson [00:11:54]:
So when you use dried herbs in the FinaMill, again, it's a dispenser, it's an accurate dispenser, but it's also bruising those herbs. And when you do that, you release flavor. So what you're tasting when you're biting into a whole fennel chunk is this explosion of flavor in your mouth, which is unexpected. When you have it ground, more evenly distributed throughout the meal, and you're not getting those surprise flavors. You're getting more mellow, evened out flavor. So yeah, I'm totally with you. And that's such an interesting thing with rubs. So now your rubs can be multi-purpose just by grinding them.

Cindy Peterson [00:12:27]:
Exactly. And, you know, and we're beef producers, and so it's one of those things. Yeah, where it's got to be the right thing, and everybody's pretty picky about it. So it's able to kind of switch those things up. But you know what, you know, you mentioned ice cream and, and those unique flavor combinations that, you know, you never even dreamed would be a good combination and unique and, and, uh, memorable. You know, those are the experiences when we go out to eat in a restaurant that we think, well, I could never recreate this at home. And I think Fina Mill allows me to kind of recreate some of those special moments in a really easy way. And So I don't consider myself a very good cook.

Cindy Peterson [00:13:11]:
And a lot of people would say, seriously, you own a kitchen store? No, I just, I experiment and I play and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. And, and Feed-a-Mill is one that has allowed me to play confidently in the kitchen.

David Nelson [00:13:27]:
Well, yeah, that's exactly great. And play is what, I mean, our tagline is where cooking gets creative and we mean it. I mean, we mean it. And I run into people every day that are very anxious around cooking, and they're anxious around spices, and they're anxious that they're going to ruin their dish if they do it wrong. And therefore they don't do it. You know, I really want people to say, no, no, no, just play it. Just— you won't kill yourself, you won't die, you won't ruin it. You know, just figure out what's right and wrong, you know.

David Nelson [00:13:57]:
And if you do ruin your dish, then that's equally equally a learning experience too if you made it perfect. You know, now you know exactly what not to do next time, right? So don't be afraid of it. Get out there and play.

Cindy Peterson [00:14:07]:
So I have to tell you a funny story specifically about spices. My husband and I in the Midwest, you know, we always flavor at the end with salt and pepper.

David Nelson [00:14:17]:
Okay.

Cindy Peterson [00:14:18]:
And yes, right? It's, it's painful for a lot. And, and so that is something that when we are discussing options, people are like, okay, so been married 26 years now. The very first time I went to the grocery store in our small, beautiful, rural South Dakota town, our grocery bill was $100. And my husband— and this was in the late '90s— my husband looked at me and said, what did you buy? And I said, spices. And this is like the most difficult conversation we've ever had in our 26 years of marriage. And I looked at him and I was like, well, spices. And he said, what else do we need besides salt and pepper? And that was like, okay, this is my Italian grandmother and the fresh, right? And, and so we— now he is a total snob when it comes to flavor. And it just cracks me up how that, that evolved for us in our own kitchen where It's okay, we adding flavor at every step of the cooking process and doing so being able to switch it out with, with the pods.

Cindy Peterson [00:15:27]:
And so the, the evolution of the different mechanisms and the different pods, you know, when, when Angie and I first came across Finamill at a show in Chicago a few years ago, it was a game changer just because it was different for grinding pepper. But then now we've added in the different mechanisms for the different things. I can grind espresso beans over ice cream, over tiramisu, over, you know, all of these things that you could grate shortbread cookies into your latte. So how, how did that come about? And the, and the you know, what was the driver behind figuring that out?

David Nelson [00:16:15]:
Well, so when we first developed it, you know, of course we were, we were looking at salt and pepper, specifically pepper. And then, you know, we knew that based on physics, you know, once you have this basic thing that can do pepper, then we said, what else is there, right? So what, what makes something different than pepper. And the first thing we went after was oily spices. And part of that is we would put things like sesame seeds or something with a high oil content into the pod and try to grind it, and it would kind of gum up at the bottom and it wouldn't fall through the way it should. So Alex would go back to his engineering team and say, how did we design this to push that type of material through using this setup? And they would do all kinds of I don't know, I don't know, whatever sorcery they do, they would figure out how to change the geometry of the teeth to force that material through in a more efficient way. But that also has trade-offs. So if you're, if you're making this oilier material go through more efficiently, maybe your grind size isn't as fine because you have to have trade-offs, or it's not grinding as quickly and moving material through as fast. So then we said, okay, there's a whole world here, there's a whole bucket of worms.

David Nelson [00:17:29]:
We have to kind of— we have to set a goal and then find out how to hit the goal. So the first goal was oily spices. We hit that. The next goal was larger spices because we like espresso beans, coffee beans, and allspice. And so we said, well, that should be easy. I mean, if you look at the physics of the pod, there, you know, you got to find a way to get the material into where the grinding is happening. So we make the hole bigger. Well, that sounds easy, but then you have to engineer all the little parts to make it work.

David Nelson [00:17:59]:
So once we got that under our belt, we said, okay, now we need to move on. So we've got— oh, sorry, back up a second. That one that did the large spices, almost by accident, we found out it did a really good job with the dried herbs because big opening, light materials falling through in a way that the other pods It would do it, but it wouldn't do it quite as well. So we said, ah, this is kind of a discovery. This works really well with dried herbs. Then we said, okay, now, now we got cheese, we've got nutmeg, we've got cinnamon, we've got everything that needs to be grated. How do we do it? How? And we actually cracked it really early. We had the Grater Pod as a prototype, I don't know, 2020, 2021, pretty early, but it just didn't perform.

David Nelson [00:18:45]:
Perform the way we wanted it to perform. It would put out stuff, but it wasn't impressive. And there were some engineering things we had to do to make it work right. And we finally got to where it's doing what we want it to do. And then we go out and we play. We go, okay, we know it does great with nutmeg, it does great with cinnamon. What else do we got? Let's throw some freeze-dried cherries in there. Oh my gosh, it does a great job.

David Nelson [00:19:10]:
Let's throw this in there. Wow, it's great! You know, we kind of, we kind of play, we kind of figure it out. We have a specific goal in mind, and then we find all these other things that just so happen to work exceptionally well, as if we designed it that way.

Cindy Peterson [00:19:24]:
I— it's like those happy accidents. That's beautiful. I love it.

David Nelson [00:19:29]:
It— I think it really informs kind of at least my attitude to this whole thing. You know, people, retailers or skeptical because it's a new, it's a new thing and it takes effort. You have to show it to people. You can't set it on a shelf, people look at a box and understand what this thing is. It just doesn't happen. But when people get into it, they understand it, they connect the dots, the retailers get up and put some effort into selling it, it works really, really well because it does its job really well. It's designed to do this, it does it, it makes people happy, and it's slowly becoming a standard. You tell me, have you had this experience? I've had this.

David Nelson [00:20:07]:
You go over to a friend's house, they don't have Feed-a-Mill, and they say, hey, can you help me cook this? And you're like, I guess, what am I doing, am I turning this thing? All right, you know, you're to the point where you don't want to use anything else. Yeah. And so I think that that's coming, you know, but it informs us, it's play, you know. We could design it with a purpose in mind and then go out there and get creative and find 25 different things that it does exceptionally well that you've never even thought of yet. That's the fun part.

Cindy Peterson [00:20:36]:
Well, the thing that I think was a game changer for us— we were already carrying Phenomel when I think it was, was it last year or the year before where you had the ice cream bar set up? And you know, I, I think, you know, there were chunks of coconut and there were cinnamon sticks and there was Roman fuchsia Sugar crystals. Yes. Oh yeah. And you know, just all of the things that would make the ultimate ice cream sundae. And yeah, it's, it's—

David Nelson [00:21:06]:
and that's the thing, when you start now, when you start thinking about it, it can also create the ultimate breakfast oatmeal. I mean, it doesn't have to be a celebration, it could be the everyday.

Cindy Peterson [00:21:16]:
Yeah.

David Nelson [00:21:17]:
You know, you could take your cup of coffee in the morning and put 5 different spices on it because you're feeling different today. And just, you know, that's, that's what I think. And that's why I think kitchen products like ours are, are really nice when they can really add something to your life that, that, you know, maybe you would have done if it was easy, but it wasn't easy. Now it is, right? Of course you want some freshly grated cinnamon in your coffee, but it's too hard to do, so you don't.

Cindy Peterson [00:21:41]:
Yeah.

David Nelson [00:21:42]:
But now you've got a device that makes that so easy that you do, and your life is a little better for it.

Cindy Peterson [00:21:46]:
I mean, maybe I'm getting off the rails here, but it's dramatic, but it is. It's so true. I mean, but these little things add up.

David Nelson [00:21:53]:
These little, little things. I mean, it's this— it's the spice of life, right? Lack of a better term. Yeah. You were talking about why do we need other spices, and in a way he's right. You don't need other spices. You can get all the nutrition you need from your food with just salt, right? But we also have to live a life. And we should also be enjoying the things we do every day. There's no reason why we can't have a moment of joy with our meals.

David Nelson [00:22:20]:
There's no reason why we can't express ourselves a little bit with what we cook and share that with other people. That's why we need spices, because it's like, that's the point. That's what, that's what money's for. That's what money's for, is for enjoying our life, you know.

Cindy Peterson [00:22:34]:
I love that. And, and it's exactly, you know, the whole mission with Angie and I, it wasn't just about building a store so that we could buy things. It was because we cared about our families and that time spent with them. And, and so FinaMill, I think, was one of those, those lines that we brought in. And, and, you know, so we— I've, I've had my original, my AA battery-powered original grinder, and, and it hasn't— I mean, I have no need for the new model yet. And I— but I, I went and bought a bunch of new pods the other day, and I, I added more things to it. So it's, it's become— I know, that's just it. I, I'm so grateful because that was one thing I'm like, oh my gosh, am I going to need to buy the new grinder? No, I don't need to buy the new grinder, but I want the new grinder.

Cindy Peterson [00:23:24]:
And, and, you know, it's rechargeable, and that, you know, and, and the, the cord kind of goes up into under the pod. And when I asked you about that in Atlanta, it was like light bulb. My mind was blown. So, so talk to me about the rechargeable unit and why that cord, we need to kind of fit it up inside there.

David Nelson [00:23:48]:
So, I mean, we, we, we're always trying to improve our product from every point of view that we can, from operation to longevity. And I mean, for example, we've tested the motor on our, our Feed-a-Mill, and it's— we stopped testing at 1,000 hours of running. So you can think of that for a typical homeowner, a typical home user, you're holding it for 3, 4 seconds per meal. I mean, maybe 30 seconds at the high end. So that's a lifetime of use on the motor. The click-in, click-out mechanism that picks up the pod, I can't remember, it's in the hundreds of thousands. That we rated it to when we stopped testing. So we build this to last a lifetime.

David Nelson [00:24:29]:
And originally, the original design had a USB charger on the neck, the outside of the product. We didn't get any complaints. We didn't have any complaints about it. But we foresaw that this is going to live on your countertop next to your stove when you're cooking and splatter and smoke and dust and whatever it's going to get inside that charging port. And because we only charge it once every 6 months or more, that's a perfect amount of time to get a nice thin layer of grease built up on there. So when you're pushing it— because I cook every day, okay, so I know— go to your countertop above your stove and go like this, you know, reach across the top and see if you feel any film up there. I guarantee you do if you cook all the time. So we didn't want that in the charging port.

David Nelson [00:25:12]:
We were worried that people are going to plug it in So we moved it to the inside where the pod connects. It's very inconvenient for charging, but it's bulletproof. There's no way anything's going to get in there. Well, I shouldn't say that, but there's—

Cindy Peterson [00:25:24]:
right.

David Nelson [00:25:25]:
There's no reasonable way that things are going to get in there and prevent you from recharging it. And you only do it once or twice a year for a couple of hours. So I said— we said that that tradeoff is okay. You know, we'll give you a little bit of inconvenience to build a more bulletproof product. And that's, that's been our philosophy from the start. We want to create a long-lasting product people are going to use for a lifetime and tell their friends about it. That's our marketing strategy, is please people to the point where they can't shut up about it.

Cindy Peterson [00:25:53]:
Well, and obviously the awards and the accolades. I mean, it's not just, you know, when you hear Oprah's Favorite Things, Time Invention of the Year, the features in Food and Wine, Good Housekeeping. It's, it's not just a, a trendy little gadget that you're going to use once, you know, here and there.

David Nelson [00:26:17]:
I have to brag on one award that I'm particularly proud of.

Cindy Peterson [00:26:20]:
Please do.

David Nelson [00:26:21]:
There's Oprah's, there's Good Housekeeping, you know, those are professional judges in most cases, often with an economic incentive, that are making these judgments. Okay? So take it with a grain of salt. Yeah, we did win. We are— we are— we, we beat everybody else for a reason, okay? But Newsweek, they had a poll by their readers for top grilling accessory. I think this is 2023, maybe it's 2024. As voted by their readers, we won as top grilling accessory. So to me, I'm way more impressed by that because that's a vote of the people. That's not a vote of a journalist, right? And, and we win those kind of awards all the time.

David Nelson [00:26:59]:
It's, you know, those, those aren't quite as popular, but so that, that's, that, but that's what keeps me going.

Cindy Peterson [00:27:05]:
And I think that's what I love about the independent kitchen store and where we're the people talking to you and, and we're the ones in the store, like I said, geeking out on this product with the, with the customer and and we stand behind it because we love it and we use it in our own kitchens. And so to have that same mindset in your brand and, and the, the constant improvement, I mean, it's, it's one of those things where it's not just changing colors every season. You guys are reinventing before a problem even pops up.

David Nelson [00:27:50]:
We're trying.

Cindy Peterson [00:27:51]:
Yeah, it's impressive. It's incredibly impressive, and I'm, I'm very grateful for that because that, that shows me that it's a line that will consistently have— because I can say, okay, this is a problem we didn't even have and they made it even— they solved it already.

David Nelson [00:28:08]:
Yeah, I mean, it's— I think that's the one benefit of being a smaller company, kind of focused on a mission instead of necessarily a bottom line all the time. Because, you know, the way we survive as a smaller company is by creating a great product and then being honest and reliable about it, and then, you know, having an expectation in line with what we can deliver. You know, all of those things come together to, you know, to kind of create something that I think customers appreciate, and I think people can tell, for the most part, when a product or a company is not sincere in the things they do. I think it comes through in their marketing, it comes through in their products. And for us, you know, the thing I always try to remind people of, we invented this from ground up. We invented it from scratch. There was no roadmap for us to follow. There was no previous generation.

David Nelson [00:29:04]:
I mean, not really. There was no previous generation of this product for us to kind of model after. So when we first iterated, great idea, and whenever we go do an upgrade, it's all on us. And a great example is we upgraded our motor to be a more powerful motor, and we didn't foresee some of the downstream effects of doing that. So when you— I'll try to make it brief because it's a very technical subject, but when you create more You create more torque, and when you create more torque, you create more friction. And what was happening was, because it was more powerful, it wasn't letting go of the pod. The friction was keeping the pod in place, and it's not coming out the way it's supposed to come out. So we had to stop and re-engineer the whole drivetrain from beginning to end to do a quarter turn backwards to release the pod when you release the button.

David Nelson [00:29:53]:
That whole shift, I don't remember exactly, but took months and months months and months and months and months to complete. In the meanwhile, we're, you know, tariffs are happening and global trade is happening and logistics are happening. So we just kind of had to say no, you know, we're not going to rush it. We're not going to put it out of the market, an imperfect product. We're going to take our lumps and we're going to earn a reputation for doing it right, not fast, and let the market be our judge. What else can we do, you know? We try to put out the best thing we can and hopefully people connect with it.

Cindy Peterson [00:30:26]:
Yeah, well, we, we definitely have, and I think our customers have. And, and I think kind of hearing a little bit more about, you know, there's only so much time we have in the store to talk for a few minutes. And, and so when people come in looking for a pepper grinder and we can not only offer them that but a total game changer, it's, it's a lot of fun, and it's a pleasure to chat with them about. And so I think one of the things we talked about is the possibility of, of you going on the road.

David Nelson [00:30:57]:
Yeah.

Cindy Peterson [00:30:58]:
And so we are really looking forward to having you come to beautiful downtown Chamberlain, South Dakota, and visit us at Berry and Basil in person. So as soon as we are able to kind of do that, it will— we'll let everybody know. But we just love to have you in person, not only to talk about the product, but obviously the spices that we're all talking about, the things that, yeah, that really are why we love this product too.

David Nelson [00:31:25]:
Part of my, part of my vision is to show, not tell, because, you know, you can sit and you can have a conversation with people and you go, you know, fresh ground spices are better than whole than pre-ground. Oh yeah, of course. Yeah, everybody knows that. But that doesn't mean you've experience that. And when you sit and you experience that, I think it kind of changes your cooking forever, you know. Because I remember my grandparents, they always had pre-ground everything, everything, because, you know, that's the generation they grew up in. I mean, that's just— that's the cooking culture they came from. And then there's my dad, who dabbled in fresh spices.

David Nelson [00:32:03]:
And then there's me, who I can't remember the last time I bought a pre-ground spice. It just changes once you connect with it, once you understand it, it changes. So what I want to do is I want to enable people to play. I want to eliminate the anxiety, eliminate any stigma, and get out there and find out for yourself what fresh ground spices taste like. Get out there and figure out why you should be grinding all of your spices fresh. I'm going to show you, not tell you, and that's kind of what I I would like to do on the road is give people permission to play, give people permission to experience something in a way that they may not have done before. I mean, that, that whole thing about plain vanilla ice cream with fennel— go do that, go try it. I mean, it's fun.

David Nelson [00:32:48]:
Or try 5 different spices on plain ice cream, spices you thought you'd never ever put on ice cream. It's not about creating an ice cream dish, it's about experiencing that spice and connecting with it and understanding it, what it means and how to use it. So that's what I'd love to do. And of course, Feed-a-Mill is a— it's not the focus, but it just enables all of that. It's—

Cindy Peterson [00:33:11]:
well, it's, it's something for us to, to really look forward to, and, and we can't wait to, to kind of make that happen in the coming months. And, and, uh, excited to have you in and, and kind of show you everything else that we've created too.

David Nelson [00:33:25]:
So I love it.

Cindy Peterson [00:33:26]:
Yes. So, sir, it is always a pleasure. I have loved chatting about Phenomel, but about flavor and just chatting with you because you're a joy. So I'm grateful. Yeah, I'm grateful for the friendships that we've developed over the, over the few years that we've been open and 5 years that we've been open. And you're definitely at the top of that list.

David Nelson [00:33:45]:
So I think you kind of spot people that have the same kind of passion you do. It's kind of hard to hide it, you know? Yeah, we're all out here doing a job, but it's really convenient that it kind of lines up with the things we're really passionate about.

Cindy Peterson [00:33:57]:
Yeah. Oh, it makes it— it's not a job. It's a joy. And yeah, perfect.

David Nelson [00:34:03]:
Joy curated.

Cindy Peterson [00:34:04]:
Yay. So yeah. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And we'll chat again soon. I can't wait.

David Nelson [00:34:10]:
Sounds good.

Cindy Peterson [00:34:12]:
Thank you for joining us today. I love conversations like this because they remind us that even the simplest tools in our kitchens can completely change the way we cook. Freshly ground spices might seem like a small shift, but flavor has a way of building confidence, creativity, and connection around the table. FinaMill and all of its accessories are available in store at Berry and Basil in beautiful downtown Chamberlain, South Dakota, and online at berryandbasil.com if you'd like to explore it further. If you loved this conversation, please share this episode with a friend Follow Joy Curated on social media and make sure you're subscribed in your favorite podcast app so you don't miss what's coming next. Links to the products and our social media are available in the show notes. Thank you for listening, and we hope this episode brought value to your day and joy to your kitchen. Until next time, this is Cindy Peterson and Joy Curated.