Navigating Kitchen Trends: Social Media Virality vs. Thoughtful Curation

There is a fascinating intersection of independent kitchen stores and the whirlwind of viral product trends shaping what we use in our kitchens every day. Cindy’s joined by Robert McGinnis, COO of the HTI Buying Group and the popular face behind @robhomecook on TikTok and Instagram — a guest who truly sees both sides of the kitchen product world, from industry insiders to online sensation.

In this episode, Cindy and Robert open up about the realities of curating products for independent stores — why quality, utility and customer trust always come before following every online craze. 

Robert shares candid stories from his years in the industry, including his accidental rise to TikTok fame with tinned fish reviews and what that experience revealed about the power and pitfalls of viral trends.

They dig into why independent retailers have a unique advantage: the freedom to thoughtfully test products, educate their community, and build real relationships — not just follow what’s hot on TikTok. 

You’ll get insights into the behind-the-scenes process of vetting products, avoiding the trap of fear-driven marketing, and balancing value with longevity in what ends up on store shelves. The episode also touches on how social media can distort perceptions of quality, the risks of buying unvetted products online, and how trusted kitchen stores navigate these challenges.

Check out Rob’s videos and food reviews by following him on TikTok and Instagram at @robhomecooks

For more thoughtfully curated joy, check out berryandbasil.com and follow the store for all the latest products, events and sales at @theberrybasil

Follow the show at @joycuratedpodcast (Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok) and make sure to subscribe to us on the podcast app of your choice. It helps us grow and share the story of all the brands we love. 

Transcript

Welcome to Joy Curated. I'm Cindy Peterson, co-founder of Berry and Basil, a thoughtfully curated kitchen store in beautiful downtown Chamberlain, South Dakota. Here we discuss food quality and real life without the pressure to get it perfect. I have real, honest conversations with makers and product experts to talk about how things are made how they're meant to be used, and how thoughtful choices can make everyday life feel more confident and enjoyable. Hello, welcome back to Joy Curated. Today's episode is all about why independent kitchen stores still matter, especially in a world where trends can go viral overnight and suddenly everyone is asking for the same product. I'm joined by someone who has had a front row seat to our industry for years, Robert McGinnis. I've known Robert for close to 5 years now and basically the entire life of our store.

Cindy Peterson [00:01:08]:
He's the COO of the HTI Buying Group, which means he works closely with independent retailers across the country, helping educate, connect, and strengthen stores like ours. And if that weren't enough, you might also know him from TikTok and Instagram as @robhomecook, where he reviewed food and kitchen products from a completely different perspective. So he sees both sides, how products are vetted and chosen behind the scenes and how they explode online through social media. So let's get started. So Robert, I am so glad you're here with me today.

Robert McGinnis [00:01:53]:
I'm very glad to be here. Thank you.

Cindy Peterson [00:01:55]:
Yeah. So Angie and I, we got to thinking, we have known you for close to 5 years. Our store's been open 5 years, a little over. We first chatted with your boss. We're going to kind of go into that in a little bit before we opened the store. And so you have been, and your organization has been such an incredible resource for us at Berry and Basil, not just in product knowledge, But because you guys have so many contacts in the world, but mainly I, I think what is the most beneficial, and I think what we enjoy most about getting to know you and your team is the, that you have facilitated so many relationships with other kitchen store owners from all over the country. And so as COO of HTI Buying Group, really you bring together a group of independent kitchen store owners. And that has become such a powerful resource.

Cindy Peterson [00:02:49]:
So tell me about your job.

Robert McGinnis [00:02:53]:
So I have been with HTI 11 years now. HTI, for those who don't know, we are an independent kitchenware buying group for independent kitchenware retailers across the US, some in Canada, and then also kitchenware manufacturers. We put together programs for our retailers and vendors that kind of build the gap between them, help facilitate informational sharing, education. And then we do things at industry trade shows that some consumers might not be aware take place. So we have industry trade shows every year, which we do things there as well. Our main goal with HTI is really to educate the retailer, make sure they can run the business to the best of their ability, because if a retailer can run their business well, that helps the entire industry of kitchenware, housewares, gift as well.

Cindy Peterson [00:03:41]:
And that education stand, you know, aspect of things has been so vital because I think I don't think we— I always say over and over again, we didn't even know what we didn't know. We've learned so much about cookware, about gadgets, about quality of materials, about, about all the things. And so that's, that's one of the aspects that we're just so grateful for, the resources that you guys provide us. And, and the friendship. And of course, yeah. So I just feel like you guys have such a front row seat to what's happening across retail housewares in general, but mainly cooking stores. What's working, what's shifting, and like you said, what we need to do to stay strong and to provide the best possible products for our customers.

Robert McGinnis [00:04:33]:
Yeah, and it helps being between the retailer and the manufacturers just because we get to see all sides of the industry and kind of connect the dots for both. So that's always been the best part of it is the full broad picture of the industry.

Cindy Peterson [00:04:46]:
Right. So I, I love that because as an independent kitchen store, it's not just because it's how we choose things that go on our shelves and, and that process that, you know, of course the name of the show is Joy Curated. Joy Curated came from the tagline that Angie and I developed, I think even before we knew what the name of our store was going to be, because we really wanted to take the time to find the products to go on our shelves that were quality, that we could stand behind. And because if it's going on our shelves, it's likely going in my kitchen.

Robert McGinnis [00:05:23]:
And that's a whole nother issue for you and every other retailer, for sure.

Cindy Peterson [00:05:29]:
Right. And of course, things, if they look nice, if they're pretty, that's important too. But I think we base so much on trust. In our industry.

Robert McGinnis [00:05:40]:
Yes, absolutely. Not only from retailers to manufacturers to educational resources, but then giving it back to the consumer as well for independence is huge, right?

Cindy Peterson [00:05:50]:
So when we are looking at a vendor, a manufacturer of a kitchen product, what are some of the things that you kind of look for in terms of what they're bringing to the market?

Robert McGinnis [00:06:05]:
Yeah, first would be quality. That would be the absolute number one thing that we look for is what they're selling, a quality item depending on what it is, what materials it's made out of, has it been tested, have there been research behind the product? So we look at all of that first and foremost because you could have an amazing looking item, but if it's not quality, it's not going to sell, or if it does sell, there's going to be returns or a lot of issues with that. So we look at quality first and foremost. And then I would say the second thing we look at is utility. Is it a useful item that will do well in the market, uh, will do well with consumers? Or is it maybe just something that's a quick fad item that's filling a gap right now? Then, you know, that doesn't have longevity. So we'll definitely look, I would say, quality, and then at, um, is the utility of it.

Cindy Peterson [00:06:58]:
And, and with that, I think a lot of times the utility of it is what What problem is it solving? And in some cases, I feel like a trendy item creates a whole problem of its own. It doesn't solve a problem. It kind of can create a problem sometimes.

Robert McGinnis [00:07:13]:
Yes. Yeah, absolutely. And I— with the rise of social media, there's a new trend daily almost. So, you know, right. It's that old adage. You don't need something for everything.

Cindy Peterson [00:07:26]:
Right, right. So where do you feel like sometimes as retailers we get tripped up? That we, you know, I guess where is it we have all these goals, but I know I've made bad purchases before.

Robert McGinnis [00:07:44]:
Sure.

Cindy Peterson [00:07:44]:
Where something I think it's going to sell and it doesn't sell.

Robert McGinnis [00:07:47]:
Yeah.

Cindy Peterson [00:07:48]:
And what, where do you, do you, have you diagnosed that yet? Because that would be really helpful if you could tell me what I do wrong when I pick something that doesn't work.

Robert McGinnis [00:07:56]:
Yes. Diagnosed, maybe that's a strong word. I would say we have, we have thoughts in that, in that realm. The first being that sometimes a retailer or owners of a retail store may buy things purely based on their personal needs, wants, aesthetic. And that can be an issue sometimes purely because they're not looking past what I think is great versus what the market needs or what my community will buy, what they need. So I— that can tend to be a problem sometimes with retailers. I feel like the longer a retailer is in business, the more they've kind of honed in what their consumers want in their community. So I feel like it becomes less of an issue over time, but definitely right up front, I think it can be an issue for some retailers.

Robert McGinnis [00:08:51]:
Besides that, I think that not Trends, they can be a double-edged sword. I think some retailers aren't following the trends that are out there in kitchenware as closely as they should be. That doesn't mean that they should be buying into every trend, but I think they need to be aware of every trend because sometimes many micro trends may be a whole overarching trend and they're missing the overarching trend, knowing what to buy coming up for maybe a new trend cycle in their store, or seeing trends die out, is paying attention to which trends or types of cooking or different culinary, like, national dishes and things like that that have come and then have maybe kind of slowly gone, and they're still buying for those trends that have now waned. So I think that sometimes not following the trends closely enough could be an issue for also for an independent retailer as well.

Cindy Peterson [00:09:51]:
Yeah. So I, you know, and I think so much of we're looking for a tool to solve a problem. We're looking at it at longevity and its quality that we talked about. And I think one of the biggest hangups I have too is looking at the cost of the product and okay, is this, is the quality match with what that retail price is going to be and is that worth it?

Robert McGinnis [00:10:16]:
Yes.

Cindy Peterson [00:10:17]:
And so, you know, that's kind of a hard thing sometimes to look at. Okay, yes, but these are the quality of the products. This is the difference. You know, I can think of a couple gadget lines of that. They have tools that are still the, the main brand is the big brand that's maybe sold at big box stores, but then the handle is a little bit different. And so it's a great example of a great quality product at a big box store, but the independent kitchen store like Berry and Basil carries a can opener with a slightly different handle and the materials are a little bit better. Would you agree? That's kind of a trick question.

Robert McGinnis [00:11:05]:
Yeah. So I, I would say yes. So independents such as yourselves again have a wide variety of the same item that are in different kind of price points and quality points as well. So again, we call that like a good, better, best selection in retail. I think that is one of the biggest strengths of an independent is the fact that they can offer something like that over a big box store, just solely looking at what is the best deal and price we can get for this item and get it out the door. And independents trying to kind of hit you know, a budget consumer, somebody that is really strict budget, but they need an item to help them out. They look for like a middle ground, somebody who wants something that will last a while, they can put a little bit of money into, have a nice item, maybe now it's starting to really have an aesthetic purpose along with its utility. And then you have a higher-end item, which could be a heritage item, something that will be passed down, something will last forever, something that has a lifetime warranty that you will initially put more money into, and then have it forever.

Robert McGinnis [00:12:08]:
So Independents get to sit and actually check the different degrees of utility in the items. They versus the price point and how the product works. Independents do a lot more research, I believe, and playing around with the item, checking the quality at places like trade shows or in their stores when they ask a vendor to send them the product to make sure they can test the quality. I think they can do a much better job of that than a large big box store does. They may just look at something going, well, we see that this is a great price if we buy 100,000 of them for all of our stores. Can you give us an even better price? It filled the need, throw it on the shelves, we're good to go. Independents take a lot more risk with products that they buy versus a big box as well. So an independent doesn't have the luxury to pick really low-quality items as a big box may.

Robert McGinnis [00:13:06]:
Hey, it doesn't— didn't sell, we clearance it out and it's gone. Independents don't have that. So I think the strength of an independent and shopping at an independent, whether that be kitchenware or anywhere kind of locally, is that you have those people that are doing the research on the products themselves. They're doing the testing on the products themselves for their quality, and they're standing behind the product.

Cindy Peterson [00:13:27]:
Yeah. You know, with testing the products, I think that is what— it's fun, but it's— I started out when we first were able to kind of get some product samples and test them out. I didn't want to hurt anybody's feelings. Like, okay, I don't really like the product. I don't like the weight. I don't like the balance of this knife. And I think that's my personality. I didn't want to be negative.

Cindy Peterson [00:13:48]:
And, and then I realized, you know, if we— I would give it heck, you know, give the item just— I would use it wrong and, and just to kind of see how it would handle it. And, and so that was, that was fun. But I really do— we've, we've decided to carry things because we've had a chance to test them out, and we have chosen not to carry products because they just didn't fit what we were going for. And so It's been a— I've learned so much about individual products that I, you know, knives and cookware. And when is a gadget really worth it? If it makes my life simpler, if it makes the process easier to prepare a simple meal. And I talked to somebody last night that said, you know, I don't cook. Angie and I have always answered that with, well, do you eat?

Robert McGinnis [00:14:43]:
Yes.

Cindy Peterson [00:14:44]:
Because even if you don't cook, you're maybe slicing an apple. Or opening a can or warming something up in a microwave. Those tools matter for the quality of whatever it is you're warming up and opening up and all that type of thing. So those are the tools that we test too, that there's definitely something for everybody. And we kind of— you could almost call it a trend. Some people are really cooking more than they used to and some people aren't. And, and that's okay too. We kind of can can fit the need for everybody.

Robert McGinnis [00:15:17]:
Yeah, no, absolutely.

Cindy Peterson [00:15:18]:
What I love about your story too is, you know, we were talking about trends and social media, but Rob, I didn't know that you were famous. You're famous.

Robert McGinnis [00:15:31]:
Not, no, not at all.

Cindy Peterson [00:15:33]:
You're TikTok famous. Let me, let me clarify a little bit, but I, you know, of all the things we have in common and caring about good quality products and caring about people and other kitchen store owners, we have so much in common, but we do not have in common a love for tinned fish. And I, I need your guidance on, on how to transform my, my idea of what tinned fish is. But my point is, Rob, you, I think, were unknowingly at the time just talking about something on social media a handful of years ago, and it went viral and, yes, picked up in media. So tell me a little bit more about that experience.

Robert McGinnis [00:16:15]:
So I started probably 2018 doing food posts on Instagram, and then I moved over to the TikTok space once COVID hit like the rest of the world did, started doing videos on TikTok. And one day I had made— I didn't have a lot of followers or anything like that. I knew I wanted to continue food content as well, but I had made a kind of a millennial, maybe slightly Gen X reference to some things of growing older. That video took off. I I believe it hit, you know, over multiple platforms, maybe 20 million views across multiple platforms. That started giving me an audience, and then I went really hard into food content after that with luckily having an audience. Um, started with, uh, cooking in my own home and doing recipes. The biggest part of it for me was sometimes I feel like people can be really intimidated by cooking.

Robert McGinnis [00:17:10]:
People on the Food Network, people like Gordon Ramsay It can seem intimidating because it sometimes seems very serious, and I wanted to do recipes and cooking things that were healthy, not healthy, all across the board that was less intimidating. Like, hey, I'm here. I don't know how to perfectly hold a knife, and I don't know how to do perfect cubed or julienne cuts. I can still cook. So can you. It does not need to be perfect. You don't need to worry about it if you're out of an ingredient. Shift to something else.

Robert McGinnis [00:17:41]:
Don't follow a recipe 100%, use it as just an outline and then add what you like, change the flavor. So I wanted my content to be that. So I started doing those kinds of videos until one day that I had seen a girl online do a tinfished video, so, uh, sardines. And I was just very curious that I had never eaten that because for me, I love food and I've Eaten a lot of things in my life, and that was just one thing I had never tried. So I went out that day and I was like, well, let me just go grab a can. Got to the aisle in my store where all of like the sardines and tuna and things like that are. Didn't actually ever pay attention to it. Realized how many varieties of things there were out there, different flavors and sauces and all of that.

Robert McGinnis [00:18:29]:
And so I bought $150 worth, took it home, and these things only at the dollar— at the store only cost maybe $5. So $100 worth of cans is a lot. Took it all home. And then I was like, you know what, I'll just record myself trying it, give my honest opinion on what I think as someone who has eaten fish in the past, but never the sardines or anything like that that you would think of out of a can. Absolutely fell in love with it. Did not expect that. There's just so many different flavors out there and different flavor profiles that are incredible in the tinned fish. It's an amazing source of protein, omega fats, you know, So it's great for nutrition-wise.

Robert McGinnis [00:19:10]:
Sodium can be a little problematic, but if you don't have any conditions that make you limit your sodium, then it's not really a big issue. So got into that world, started posting more review videos about that, and the whole trend on TikTok with tin fish just really took off at that same time. So it was kind of a lucky, lucky timing kind of thing. And people, people just really love the reviews for specifically the fact that a lot of people can have an aversion to not only taste but texture of things. And I think unknown items, especially fish, can have texture issues. So I was really trying to be conscious of that when I was talking about things, is like, how does it actually feel eating it? You know, what are the tastes, flavor profile tastes if you eat fish? You would know that sometimes you can get a, a fishy piece of fish that is very oceany tasting, and then you can sometimes get a piece of fish that's more to the side of like a chicken or beef flavor. So I was giving them that as well, telling them what kind of, on a scale, where it ranged in that kind of taste profile as well. And then that kind of grew my audience too.

Robert McGinnis [00:20:22]:
So, and then I was just doing that simultaneously with cooking videos as well.

Cindy Peterson [00:20:26]:
And what I love about, you know, Angie and I, we have a lot of gourmet food items in the store. And so when I laugh, you know, of course, I, I think I have slight PTSD from my Italian grandma chopping up sardines for her Caesar salad.

Robert McGinnis [00:20:45]:
Yes.

Cindy Peterson [00:20:46]:
And I think I just— there's this, this idea that I have in my head that I need to get out of my comfort zone. I love trying new things. I love So what was the— if I were to start, can you think of a brand that I should start with or a flavor? You can get back to me.

Robert McGinnis [00:21:06]:
Yes. Yes. Hold on. Just give me one second. It's been a while since I've looked at my sheet. And now that you ask, of course, they're all going out.

Cindy Peterson [00:21:12]:
I know I should have asked you beforehand.

Robert McGinnis [00:21:14]:
No.

Cindy Peterson [00:21:14]:
What I'm thinking is we'll get some in and when we post this episode and we can kind of do a taste test.

Robert McGinnis [00:21:22]:
Yes.

Cindy Peterson [00:21:22]:
Yeah.

Robert McGinnis [00:21:23]:
Well, Fishwife, I would say Fishwife is such an easy beginner one. They have very universal flavors, I would say. Let's go with universal flavors. They're not too polarizing in one direction or the other. Some of their flavors have a more kind of Asian style that you may be used to if you like any kind of Asian cuisine. So I would say Fishwife has a really great smoked salmon. I am not a fan of salmon uncooked, like unbaked. I like salmon baked.

Robert McGinnis [00:21:54]:
So when it has been smoked or when it is raw, I don't really love that taste. So I was a little hesitant to try it. One of the best things I've ever had. The smoke flavor for them, they just, they know how to smoke a fish and it made it incredibly delicious. So I would say Fishwife, they have that, they have tunas, they have the sardines, they have anchovies. So they have a wide variety, but they're very easy and entry level as well.

Cindy Peterson [00:22:21]:
Yeah, yeah.

Robert McGinnis [00:22:22]:
Another one that I really love is Brunswick. So they're a brand you could find in most grocery stores, um, under $3.99 for most of that. They definitely have a commitment to quality. You can taste it in their food. And they have light flavors. They don't use a ton of additional flavors. They use smoke and they maybe use some lemon, and they keep it simple. And it does taste like fish, but it isn't too fishy.

Robert McGinnis [00:22:47]:
So they're an easy one to get, to get into it with. And my next suggestion, though, just across the board would be that when you're doing tinned fish and trying it for the first time, it's really about what you're pairing it with as well that makes the experience versus just— obviously I did eat it right out of the can. But, you know, having the right crackers and having some little dipping sauces to kind of put to go with fish, malt vinegar aioli is amazing with fish, you know, a little cream cheese on your cracker, pickled onions, it creates a really great flavor profile all over that really complements the fish, doesn't take away from it. So I think that eating it with something and just kind of having it as a snack, little charcuterie board of fish, as you will, would be your best way to kind of jump into it first instead of just spoon to mouth.

Cindy Peterson [00:23:35]:
And we're kind of going off the rails a little bit into the weeds, but I'm loving this discussion because now I'm curious, okay, what beverage would you pair with your wine?

Robert McGinnis [00:23:45]:
Okay. A wine. Absolutely. A wine.

Cindy Peterson [00:23:46]:
Yeah.

Robert McGinnis [00:23:47]:
Yeah. Maybe a little white wine.

Cindy Peterson [00:23:50]:
Maybe some bubbles and champagne.

Robert McGinnis [00:23:53]:
Yeah. Yeah. Champagne would be great with it. Or a Prosecco would be good. Yeah, absolutely. Okay.

Cindy Peterson [00:23:59]:
All right. Well, I think I'm convinced it's going to be coming up. But what I love about your experience in that world is that so many times We've had people come in the store and say, well, I saw this on TikTok. Do you carry this?

Robert McGinnis [00:24:16]:
Yes.

Cindy Peterson [00:24:16]:
I think one of the things that most recent is, and this is a good trend, is the sourdough trend. And all of a sudden we see Taylor Swift's bread slicer that she got for Christmas all over social media and we carry that. And that's a, that's something that, yeah, the quality is there and it's legit. We've talked to the people that carry it, how it went out of stock for months and months and months because it was going crazy. And then there's knockoffs of that brand now. And so knowing that you're getting it from the source that is the quality source, on the other end of that nickel of when people come in and ask, is the stainless steel cutting board. Yes, I understand that, you know, what is driving that trend, but oh my gracious, it is horrible on our knives.

Robert McGinnis [00:25:20]:
Yes.

Cindy Peterson [00:25:21]:
And it's probably the best thing that ever happened to the knife industry because you ruin a knife and you have to buy a new one.

Robert McGinnis [00:25:29]:
Yeah, yeah, very quickly. Very quickly.

Cindy Peterson [00:25:33]:
So we only, you know, there's a lot of times now we don't carry trends because we don't think that it fits into that what we talked about earlier, the longevity, where it's just not a great option.

Robert McGinnis [00:25:46]:
Yes. Yeah, I, I have a problem with trends online that are driven by fear. And I feel like the stainless steel cutting board fits into that as well. We have a big surge of people obviously that want to be more healthy, more conscious, eco-friendly, things like that, which is great. Absolutely great. But I think sometimes people can go overboard. And then what happens is the people online selling these products, they don't back the products. They're not— that's not their company.

Robert McGinnis [00:26:16]:
It's just they're making a commission off of selling you this thing on TikTok. So, you know, they're not actually backing the product and the company, and they use a little bit of fear telling you how horrible wood cutting boards are for you and how much microplastics you're gonna get with plastic. So obviously, if you want to stay alive, you need to order this stainless steel cutting board because it's the only thing that will keep you and your family safe. And I, I don't like when people prey on people's fears to sell products. That to me is, you know, a very, very shady business to be in. And that's why I think consumers need to be very careful with the trends online, because they need to do their own research, first of all. Second, they need to realize who is selling you what, you know, what, how much does this person really know about these products, or is it just someone in their kitchen flipping through 10 different products a day, holding it in front of a camera, telling you you need it, making commission off of it, moving on to the next 10 products? That, that I think is the biggest double-edged sword when it comes to the internet and sales on the internet and products that may pertain to health as well. You don't know who to trust.

Robert McGinnis [00:27:29]:
And some people, I think, need to put more effort into not blindly trusting others and just kind of doing their own research, or going to a retailer like an independent kitchenware store retailer and saying, hey, I saw this stainless steel cutting board online. What do you think of it? Are you carrying it? And the independent retailer will tell you the truth. They will tell you, you know, why it's a good idea, why it's a bad idea, what could happen from it. Who to source it from, what brands are reputable brands that sell these items. They'll give you that information. Yes, an independent retailer wants to sell you product too, but they don't care what product you're buying. They want to drive you to the right product that you actually need, because then that creates a relationship with their consumers, and the consumers trust them and know that they'll provide them with the most high-quality items. They know that they'll point them in a direction of items that are right for them in their lifestyle.

Robert McGinnis [00:28:26]:
So I think people need, again, just use better judgment when it comes to these online trends. Because again, you also don't know where it's coming from. You don't know if this is coming from a factory somewhere with horrible labor conditions. It's not being tested for lead. It's not being tested for, you know, if it's coming off into your food, if it's food safe. You don't know that buying off of the internet as much as you would know buying in a retail establishment where it's already been vetted. The vendor has been vetted by the retailer to make sure things have been tested, quality control is there as well.

Cindy Peterson [00:29:02]:
Yeah. And you talk about the fear issue, you know, selling point, fear sells in some of those situations. And that's just heartbreaking when, you know, we had a mom come in the store before Christmas, 3-year-old little girl, and was in tears because she had seen a video online and was afraid she was poisoning her child. Now, yeah, I get that when you're a new mom, You are bending over backwards to do everything you can. And I feel like there's some of those things that are really feeding off of that emotion that we have as moms and parents. And, and so it's one of those things that it's, it's irritating to me. And so I wanted— yeah, I don't want to sell you a product that I haven't vetted and, and where it's not just from the brand that's selling it to me. It's other kitchen store owners that I've met through you guys that have been like, no, we've looked into this.

Cindy Peterson [00:30:01]:
And I'm ready. You know, there's a couple of gals that I love talking to from out east that they've been looking at some of these products for 3, 4 years and say, okay, yep, nope, that is a safe product. That's what I use. So when someone comes in my store looking at the same type of situation, you know, I've name-dropped them. Because, you know, maybe I haven't done this research as deeply as you have as a customer, but I have a kitchen store friend who has gone even farther than that and has, has figured this out.

Robert McGinnis [00:30:30]:
Yeah.

Cindy Peterson [00:30:31]:
So kind of peeling back the curtain on the TikTok deal and social media in general. And I think honestly, that feeds into the quality of some of the products I hate to name, but on Amazon, I feel like sometimes we don't know where it's coming from. It's coming. It's kind of the same TikTok shop type deal where that person is not shipping it directly to you. Sometimes it's just going into a computer system and it's getting shipped to you from China. And so how would brands reach out to you? Once they saw your numbers, once you became viral, oh, we can, we can talk to this guy if he talks up our product. How was that experience on your end with that?

Robert McGinnis [00:31:18]:
Sure. So I've had experiences, good and bad, in that, in that realm. I would say the majority of vendors are— they're very easygoing. They come to you, they say, hey, we saw your video, we loved your content. We would really love you to test and try out our products. We'll send them to you. Just let us know if you're interested. And I always go back with, absolutely, I would love to do a review on your products.

Robert McGinnis [00:31:42]:
You're helping give me content. However, I will tell the truth. If you're not okay with that, then you don't need to send it. I've only ever had, I would say, maybe 3 or 4 that have just completely cut off communication once I've said that. Just being realistic that I will give the honest opinion. I never try to be nasty about anything, but if it's something I don't like or there's an issue with the product, I would tell everybody. But most will say, yep, open to that. Absolutely love the feedback.

Robert McGinnis [00:32:12]:
Um, anything like that. So. So that's been great. On the really bad end of this spectrum, I've had vendors reach out to me, going back to kind of the sell with fear topic we were discussing, that were trying— especially when there have been economic issues, political issues— that have written to me to do a product based on the fact that the, the economy is uncertain, political climate's uncertain, unrest may happen, you need to hoard food for your family. And, you know, in a, in a large email giving me all of these bullet points to hit to, to scare people that, you know, a war may break out and you need to have these things in your home. And I absolutely wouldn't even respond to those companies. I would never ever back a product or a company that would ever do something like that or use that kind of manipulation of a consumer base.

Cindy Peterson [00:33:15]:
Was the, you know, the payout for you bigger with some of those brands? I know maybe you didn't even get to that part of the conversation, but was it all about, okay, we have all of this sitting in a warehouse somewhere and we need to move it. And so we're going to really give a good cut to these people that are helping us move it.

Robert McGinnis [00:33:38]:
Yes. Yeah. I would say what I noticed was the offers, the higher the offers were, and I'm just talking about like a one-off, one-off partnership, the higher the offer was, the more I was kind of really looking into the company first. Not across the board, but I would— I have— I had seen that the higher the offer, usually the more kind of either sketchy the product was, I wasn't sure about exactly where it was coming from, it looked like something that just wasn't selling and they're trying to get it out of their doors. The ones that have a very quality brand, a known brand, they back their products 100%, they still offered money for it because yes, that's the time of the person doing the video and doing the reviews and things like that., but they weren't quick to jump into a high-paying thing because I think they just, they know their product kind of speaks for itself. Obviously you can negotiate with them as well, but right out the gate they weren't as high-paying, as the ones that really needed to move that product fast. And you have to ask yourself, why do they need to move that product that fast? Why are they offering me this much money to sell their product for them? Again, not all, but it, there was a correlation between that for sure.

Cindy Peterson [00:34:51]:
Right. And I think. We definitely carry some brands that have gone viral on social media because of the quality aspect of it. Yes. You know, Phenomil would be one example. We have a podcast episode talking about how, yeah, it hit and it, and it continued. And that trend has continued now for years simply because it is a high-quality product and I'm going to buy it for myself. But, you know, it was a little bit, you know, that's an example of a great way consumer education on a good quality product? If I look at the name brand, if I, you know, how are other ways that I can research a product? You know, if it's a, it's a one-off brand that, yeah, they make coffee makers and cheese graters.

Cindy Peterson [00:35:38]:
You know, I guess what, as a consumer, what, what are some of the things that I should look for to do that research?

Robert McGinnis [00:35:44]:
Well, like you said, again, looking up the brand is the first thing because I think a lot of times some of these very low quality TikTok or even Amazon brands, like there's not really a website, there's not, a sales portal on there for a consumer to get more information about the company. You can't find them anywhere. So that should probably be a first red flag as well. I also look at the comments, not purely just what they're starting to say, but kind of how many are there, how many times has this been viewed, because sometimes you can tell that they're buying those comments and buying the reviews that they put on these things. So you can kind of— if they're all— the reviews are stating almost the same thing but just in different sentences, you kind of have to get a feel for, do you feel like these are are real reviews being given by real people that have bought this product, or is this kind of like a farm-bought paid review that is being put up by a company? Has it— does it say it's only sold 200 but they have 3,000 comments? Red flag. So you kind of want to look for that as well. When it comes to TikTok, I would say that you have to also look at then who is pushing the item in front of you. Is that— go, you know, go to a TikToker's page that's talking about, let's say, a cheese grater.

Robert McGinnis [00:36:58]:
And they're like, it's the best in the world and you need to buy it. Okay, well, go to their page. Is every video a new random product, or is this person a cook that's cooking and doing and doing recipes? But then they're like telling you randomly in a video, hey, I found this product and I love it. That's a green flag. If it's every single video is just a different product they're selling, that's a red flag. You know, again, it may be the best product in the world. It may be the highest quality. But you will never know that until you get it in your hands.

Robert McGinnis [00:37:29]:
And you have to kind of use your best judgment to figure out if you want to take that chance or not, versus, you know, going into a store and actually buying it with people that have played with this for a long time and have heard other consumers talk about it, have used it themselves, have tested it, or will literally let you test it right there in person.

Cindy Peterson [00:37:47]:
You know, there I was randomly going through TikTok the other day, and I had 2 videos back to back. The first one was a mom in, I have to say, New Jersey, just based on her accent and her language. And I am in love with this woman. And apparently she's gone to hundreds of thousands of viewers in about a 2-week period of time. She talked about a knife that she bought at a, at a chain kitchen store, which I mean, Sur La Table. And And it's a great brand of knife. And it is, it is hilarious to watch her because she's just blown away how well things have taken off. Brands are reaching out to her.

Cindy Peterson [00:38:33]:
And if I was a brand that was not good quality, I would be scared to have her review because she is brutal. And it's in the best of all the ways possible. That's who I want as my friend. Like, okay, yes, it's a good buy.

Robert McGinnis [00:38:49]:
I mean, it's good.

Cindy Peterson [00:38:51]:
And so then the other— the next video was a plastic cheese grater that, you know, where, yeah, if I'm making pizza for my, for my family every Friday night and I am, you know, wanting to hand grate 3 blocks of cheese, I want a rotary cheese grater that suction cups to my countertop. Every— I mean, even just looking at it, in the picture of this vendor, of this TikTok person, the plastic was so flimsy and cheap, grinding against metal. And I just blew my mind. And then in the next sentence she said, okay, if you bought this cheese grater and she held it up in her hand, then you're going to like this one even better. And yes, It was like the plastic quality was no better. It was just the newest thing. And she held them up together to say, all of you bought this from me before, and now I'm telling you it's crud. And now I want you to buy this one from me.

Cindy Peterson [00:39:59]:
And I just was blown away. So in regards to that, you know, I was so excited to see a vendor come out this last year that had an all-metal cheese grater. And So excited that, you know, we, we got it in. The price tag is hefty. It is not cheap, but, but the quality is such that I can stand behind it. Can— I don't even know if you can return items that you got on TikTok Shop. You can return them, but you may not get your money back.

Robert McGinnis [00:40:28]:
Sure. Or, yeah, are able to contact the company. And there's a lot of issues you can run into when you're buying off the TikTok Shop, for Yeah.

Cindy Peterson [00:40:37]:
So, you know, I just think it's such an interesting world that we live in. It's kind of this generation's version of the infomercial.

Robert McGinnis [00:40:46]:
Yes, yes, absolutely. And you know what? You bring up a great point with the infomercial because that is taped, right? So as a person that has done a creator on TikTok space, I think what people also sometimes forget is that I have 200 takes to make it look great. It may not actually work like that in person. If I am cooking something and I burn a cake because something didn't work out, I make another one and then I only film the nice cake. So the same thing with products is they can— it can look amazing on the internet, it can look high quality, it can look like it's perfect. You have no idea what lighting and what amount of takes it took them to get that look on camera. So sometimes I think it's best that, especially if you were going to spend money, invest into a good product, test it in person, go see it in person somewhere. I wouldn't suggest doing something where you're buying it online for something that would be a medium to higher price point.

Robert McGinnis [00:41:50]:
If you're somebody that has a low budget and you think, hey, I'm only going to use this once or twice, and that's your kind of thing, then hey, you know, go for it. It may work out for you. It may not work out for you.. But you know, when you're ready to upgrade or get a better piece, move to a kitchen store and, and, and work it there.

Cindy Peterson [00:42:09]:
You know, I just think in terms of trends and how kitchen store owners, we need to be trend aware. Yes. But are we, are we chasing the trends? Are we chasing that noise or are we leading? Are we, are we reacting or are we leading? And I'd like to think we're leading, knowing, okay, if, if maybe a really high quality brand will come out with an option that did trend on TikTok. And I was so excited to see that Dreamfarm came out with this last year with the oil pour sprayer, because I know the quality of their materials and I know if we have issues with it, they're going to fix it. They're going to make it right. And so those are the things where, you know, when I see something and I— when we go to market in Atlanta or when we go to International Housewares Show, that I'm actually able to ask, okay, is this— have you seen this? Would you consider making something like this with high-quality products? Are people looking for something that fits this problem? That's, you know, creates this is a solution to a problem that they have, can you create a high-quality reinvented version of that that is worth their investment and worth coming into our shelves?

Robert McGinnis [00:43:38]:
Yeah, absolutely. And that's Dreamform's whole business model is that they take everyday products and they go over it a million times to find out how to make it better, how to design it better, the materials that could be better for that item, which I love about that brand is that that they will do that. They stand behind everything they do. They stand behind their quality and they give, uh, they have very great price point. They still do it in a way that's accessible for most people. So I really do love that about them.

Cindy Peterson [00:44:09]:
Yeah. So, okay. So I'm going to ask you a few rapid fire questions here. Um, okay. What trend, and not necessarily social media, TikTok, but in general, is there a product trend that you believe in long term?

Robert McGinnis [00:44:25]:
Heritage items that have resurfaced. That— I feel like that trend's really resurfaced, is really looking to, uh, if you need something like, let's say, a Dutch oven or a knife, if you're looking for buying one instead of multiples and you pay a little bit of higher price, but something that has a lifetime warranty and something that can be passed down. I feel like I'm in the millennial generation, right, kind of in the middle to later section of it, but there was a point where we kind of threw away not wanting anything from our parents or grandparents. We didn't want the china, we didn't want all of the expensive pieces because where were we going to put them? But I think it's trending back now. We wish we would have taken those pieces, and now we kind of want to have our own to pass on. I love that. I absolutely love that. I feel that with every passing year that I'm older, I'm getting more and more into I wait to buy something, I'll save up for it, and I'll get the thing I want.

Robert McGinnis [00:45:19]:
I'll get the thing that will last. Getting out of the I need it rapid fire, I need fashion rapid fire. I'd rather have my basic core pieces that will last me a lifetime. So I love that, and I love that people are starting to get back to that.

Cindy Peterson [00:45:34]:
I love that we can stand behind those items too, because we already know they've— they will last because they already have. You know, it's maybe just a reinvention of colors and things like that. But when it comes down to it, they are true to who they are and have been in many cases hundreds of years of some of these heritage brands. So yeah, okay, I love that. What's a trend that is likely short-lived?

Robert McGinnis [00:46:06]:
Dubai chocolate. Not only— I have tried obviously multiple things from like the Dubai chocolate with pistachio cream. It tastes good. For sure. But the price point that some of these companies have put on these types of items, a candy bar for $16.99 in the checkout line, you're not that good. Sorry, it's not that good.

Cindy Peterson [00:46:31]:
Yeah. And I— gosh, you know, we definitely got some in because we had people asking for it. And sure, we're like, let's try it.

Robert McGinnis [00:46:40]:
Yeah.

Cindy Peterson [00:46:40]:
And I could not believe, you know, and then our sourcing because it was sold out, we'd get a— we'd think we were ordering one label and it would come as a different label. So it was an interesting transition. I think we, we quit ordering in the midst of people still coming in and looking for it because it was everywhere at that point. And so we could kind of guide them to where they could get it if they still wanted to try it. But yeah, sure. Okay. That's a great example. What's one thing that independent kitchen stores do better than anyone else?

Robert McGinnis [00:47:20]:
Teach education. Because I feel that most kitchenware stores, when you walk in there, you maybe have an idea of what you're looking for or a recipe that you're thinking about duplicating online, and they can tell you not only what what items will work for that recipe. But as they talk to you, they'll kind of realize what items work for what your lifestyle is, what may be a better pan for you. You know, do you seem like a person that will either learn to or enjoy cooking on stainless? Or they can tell if like, hey, we need to get you a ceramic pan because that just fits your lifestyle better. So the fact that they can educate consumers not only on the products but also on the uses of the products, on how to cook with the products, on recommendations of foods to try making in the products. I think you will never find that anywhere else. You will not find that at a big box store. You will not find that online from just a seller.

Robert McGinnis [00:48:15]:
You know, you'll get tutorials and Food Network and things like that, but having somebody in person you can ask questions to that this is their life, the products, food, you know, the staff of an independent retailer will be, I believe, much more knowledgeable about the products than even a staff of a big box store. More because independent retailers get training from our vendors. Their staff gets training, then whether that be in person or online, attending shows, learning about the products, talking to other independent retailers about their uses and things like that. I think that's the biggest strength of the independent retailer, something that e-commerce will never be able to touch.

Cindy Peterson [00:48:56]:
Yeah, well, I just think It's so eye-opening to think that a product goes viral because of an algorithm. Yes. Not, not necessarily because it is a good product.

Robert McGinnis [00:49:12]:
Yep. Absolutely. It has usually little to do with that.

Cindy Peterson [00:49:18]:
Yeah. Well, I just think, you know, of course we're partial. We're partial. We, we see the work that goes into curating the products that that we bring in and we want what's best for the consumer, you know, and not in a way that is judgy or— but we truly care about what people are taking home and we want to stand behind it. And so what I love about chatting with you and chatting with the, the vendors that I've gotten to know through you and other kitchen store owners is that that goes across the board in, and those, that relationship that it all comes down to us truly caring about a quality product for a family, for, for a new cook, for someone who is just starting out or someone who has been doing all the things for years and years and years. So yeah, it is always a pleasure to chat with you. And as well, so much. Yeah, I'm excited to kind of see what what we're going to see.

Cindy Peterson [00:50:24]:
We have an upcoming show, International Housewares Show, and kind of some of the trends that are coming out from that. So we'll both be there and, and, uh, and maybe get some on-site discussions in as well as we're looking at certain things. But, but with that, and for now, Robert, I'm just, uh, we'll kind of see where this all goes, but we're excited to have you on, and, and I'm sure we'll chat again.

Robert McGinnis [00:50:46]:
Absolutely.

Cindy Peterson [00:50:46]:
Thank you so much. Thank you so much for spending time with me today on Joy Curated. My hope is that something from this conversation helps you feel a little bit more confident, a little more curious, and a lot more at ease, whether you're cooking a full meal from scratch or simply gathering around food with someone you love. Be sure to take a look at the show notes for links to our social media. Please follow along and share. I'll also include links to some of the products we mentioned in this episode so you can explore them a little bit more thoughtfully. And of course, if you could, pretty please with a berry on top, follow and share Joy Curated on your favorite listening app. It truly helps more than you know.

Cindy Peterson [00:51:33]:
You can also visit berryandbasil.com to explore the store and see the thoughtfully curated products we stand behind. To support you in the kitchen. This show is written and hosted by me, Cindy Peterson, and produced by my amazing friend Casey Brown at Teal Hat Communications. So until next time, take care.