What Knife Should I Buy? Cangshan’s Ed Bartush Shares the Essentials

One of the most frequent questions that Cindy Peterson, co-founder of Berry and Basil, gets is how to choose the right knife. So she sat down with Ed Bartush, an industry veteran from Cangshan Cutlery with nearly four decades of cutlery experience, to explore the surprisingly complex world of kitchen knives.

From the basics of stamped vs. forged blades, to the allure of layered Damascus steel, we’ll break down what actually matters when shopping for a knife. 

• Which steel should you look for? 
• Why does handle design matter? 
• Is a block set really better than customizing your own collection? 
• What will help you make your decision?

Ed demystifies these questions and offers practical, confidence-boosting advice for every home cook — reminding us all that the best knife is the one that feels right in your hand and fits the way you cook. Whether you’re a seasoned chef or just starting out, get ready to rethink how you choose the most essential tool in your kitchen.

Products featured in this episode:

Cangshan collection

*Note: Items will be restocked soon, plus new items will be added! 

For more thoughtfully curated joy, check out berryandbasil.com and follow the store for all the latest products, events and sales at @theberrybasil

Follow the show at @joycuratedpodcast (Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok) and make sure to subscribe to us on the podcast app of your choice. It helps us grow and share the story of all the brands we love. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

The two things that you should invest in in the kitchen is good quality collery and good quality cookware.

SPEAKER_02 0:09

Welcome to Joy Curated. I'm Cindy Peterson, co-founder of Berry and Basil, a thoughtfully curated kitchen store in beautiful downtown Chamberlain, South Dakota. Here we discuss food, quality, and real life without the pressure to get it perfect. I have real, honest conversations with makers and product experts to talk about how things are made, how they're meant to be used, and how thoughtful choices can make everyday life feel more confident and enjoyable. So one thing I've realized since opening Variant Basil is this that knives are probably the number one item that I have had to learn the most about. And the more I learn, I think the more questions I have. There are so many variables: steel, forged versus stamped, Damascus, edge angles, rock well hardness, balance, handle feel, and it can all get overwhelming quickly. But in the store, I almost always comes back to one simple question: what knife should I buy? And that is what today's episode is about. Today I am talking with Ed Bardish from Kangshun Cutlery. Ed has spent years in the knife industry, including time with another cutlery brand, and he brings a really helpful perspective on how knives are made, how to choose one, and what actually matters for us as home cooks. So, Ed, before we get into Kangshun specifically, I want to start with you. Tell me about your experience in the knife industry.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

Well, I started once I graduated from college, I worked for Marshall Fields for five years and actually was an assistant manager in housewares. You got to go through the training program for about six months and then worked my way into the buying office after a stint as a store as a department manager out in the stores and was an assistant buyer in cutlery for a couple years. So all toll, 38 years of experience, you know, 30 years with Wustoff. I don't, you don't mind me saying that to you. I mean, it's a great company. And now almost four years with Kang Shan.

SPEAKER_02 2:29

I I love it. So did you find that you had a passion for cutlery specifically while you were still at Marshall Fields?

SPEAKER_00 2:36

Not originally, because it was exactly the way you described it. These some of these people come in with the most technical questions, and you have to educate yourself. But yeah, then once you're, you know, on board, familiar with everything, yeah, it's fun. It's different.

SPEAKER_02 2:52

Yeah. So uh as you got into buying cutlery, were you as confused as I am? I do you feel like when you first got started, and at what point did that just kind of start to click with you, do you think?

SPEAKER_00 3:05

Well, I had a really good uh mentor, the buyer I worked for had been a buyer for a number of years. And you kind of depend on, you know, the vendors that are calling on you. And again, back in the day, Zwilling was the hot brand at Chicago Cutlery, and the and the reps were factory reps, really good people that worked with me and had patience. It was great.

SPEAKER_02 3:26

Yeah, well, and I think that's what you bring to us. And you know, we've we've known you for quite a few years now, and and I know we uh are always so grateful when you spend time with us when we're at shows, but then also you've been into the store now a couple times and chatted with our staff. And if customers have been lucky enough to come in when you've been in there, we've we've always learned listening to you chat with our customers, and so we're always grateful for that as well. Let's get into the the brand. Tell us about uh the the Kingshan line.

SPEAKER_00 3:58

Kingshan is a company, has been around for about 12 years. Our owner, Henry Lou, started the business. He was in the uh flatware business. He actually ran an Oneida plant at one point and then left Oneida and decided he wanted to start his own food service company. He is the single one of the single largest food service distributors in the in the country. He ships 120 containers a month into this country. So then about five, six years ago, he said, I want to get in the cutlery business. So some of the best cutlery in the world comes from this little town in China, and a lot of people aren't as familiar with it, would which, you know, people are familiar with the name Zolingen or Tears, where the European cutlery companies come from. But this this little town has been around for about 1,500 years. They've been making knives, scissors, and swords, and the quality is unbelievable. It's one of only two places in the world right now where you can make some of the types of knives we make and make them handmade. Um there used to be a real thriving cutlery industry in the United States. Uh as a matter of fact, in upstate New York, and I'd driven through this town of Utica, and it's all vacant factories. So there's really nobody in the United States that can do what we do anymore. And uh we've made some major inroads. It's been fun.

SPEAKER_02 5:25

You know, I think that's what I love with the the craftsmanship and and some of these lines that we carry are historically the people handling the knife before we get it in the store are generations of skill that has been handed down to them. Is that kind of where, you know, the the community that that was the original home to the factory?

SPEAKER_00 5:51

That's exactly right. It's it's multi-generational cutlers. Their parents, grandparents, great-grandparents have all worked in these factories. I think people have a misconception of some factories in China. They're thinking of serpentine fences around the factory and, you know, treating the the workers horribly. Our owner pays his workers 40% more than anyone else in this town of skilled people, and then gives them a 25% stake of the company. So he gets the best of the best, and he gets the best quality work out of them as well.

SPEAKER_02 6:24

So when Henry, you know, he was in the uh in the business, uh, but what was his background? What did he see in the market that he thought he could uh bring in with Kang Shun or change or improve?

SPEAKER_00 6:39

Well, you've met Todd, our vice president of sales. This the term he loves to use is disruptive. And I really think that's kind of what we've done in the cutlery industry. It's kind of a state industry. For years and years and years, everybody had black handle, plastic, triple rivet with a full bolstered knife. We decided to to change that. You know, and again, you talk about how technical cutlery can get. For some people it is, for the but for the majority of consumers out there, they want to know how the knife is feeling, the fact that it's gonna cut and stay sharp, and and how it looks. And so that's what we've kind of captured over the last few years here. The handles that we have are unique to anybody else, the layered steel, even the blades look different. When we develop a new storage item, we want to do something that no one else has done. And that's really the only way you can get into most industries is as an upstart. You've got to be different than the big guys.

SPEAKER_02 7:42

Yeah, uh I love that because I feel like the design of the product plays such a role that it does look different. And it it's I I think I've used the term with you before that it's uh it's almost like countertop candy. When it's useful and purposeful, that's great. But but to have it be pretty and to feel good in my hand. And, you know, if I'm doing a chore that I don't necessarily enjoy, I think food prep with a great knife is one of my favorite things to do to wind down and get ready for the week. And and I'm grateful to have a great knife in my hand when I'm doing that. Let's kind of get into that knife construction and and all of the different ways a knife is constructed. Let's let's start with kind of the difference between stamped, forged, and damascus. Can you lead us through that journey?

SPEAKER_00 8:32

Yep, real simple. Stamped knives are just sheet steel, and they just take a big, huge sheet of this steel and either use a stamping device shaped like the knife blade that they want to cut out, or today most of the higher tech companies use lasers because you end up with far less scrap, and you know, you're not continually replacing those die cuts. And then an upgrade from that would be forged, where you have a much thicker piece of steel to start, and now they predominantly used to be hot drop forge where they would take this kind of crude-looking shape and put it into a mold or dye, and then this big huge forging hammer would come down and squash that piece of steel red on into the mold. Today, to keep up with demand and also produce a better product, we do something called pressure forging, where they take a pre-cut rectangular piece, heat it in the middle, and squish it together to form the bolster. And then after that, it's basically the same the tempering process, the grinding. Your average stamp knife is about a half a dozen steps, where the average forged knife goes through about 40 steps to get to the finished product. So there's substantially more involved. And as you go up in these different categories, forged knives are substantially better weighted, better balanced, and have a much better edge and hold their edge much longer than stamp knives. And then in the last few years, the Asian cutlery thing has kind of taken over, and that's where you get into the multi-layered Damascus steels. And what that involves is you are they used to back in the day, back in the Middle East, they used to take a piece of steel and heat it and fold it and heat it and fold it. They still do that in parts of the world, but those knives are going to cost anywhere from a thousand to ten thousand dollars. There's just a lot involved. So manufacturers, again, have stepped up and come up with a better way to do the same kind of process where we come with pre-cut rectangular thin pieces that we stack on top of each other, weld them together, and then put that into the forge and continually turn it to get a thinner spine out of a thinner blade. The piece that's in the middle, in this case, ours are 67 layered. The piece that's in the middle and surrounded by 33 layers on either side is what does the cutting, and that's where you've got a higher grade steel that holds a much longer edge than the forged knives. The 33 layers on either side are for corrosion resistance, stain resistance, and rigidity. And now, this will make your head explode, Cindy. We're now coming with a 135-layer knife that we introduced at the houseware show.

SPEAKER_02 11:26

It was beautiful. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:28

And it'll be made of the newest, latest steel. I'm sure you've heard, and you know, we could just mention this briefly that we also use powdered steel from Sweden, which is, you know, right now it was the most expensive steel about a year ago, and it's just all the ingredients that go into the metal, the final process, are in a powdered form so it blends better more evenly, and you end up with finer grains so you can sharpen it much better. Now the latest steel coming out of Sweden is called Dom X, which is even better than the powdered steel. And again, our owner is always in tune with the newest, latest steels, the best steels in the world, and that's what he goes out and tries to get. And he's gotten another another new steel. It's it's that's what kind of makes my head explode, all the changes that happen in the cutlery industry that didn't happen years ago.

SPEAKER_02 12:20

Aaron Powell And it's the combination of the craftsmanship and the historical uh, you know, truth of the industry, and then as it improves, it's just yeah, it blows my mind. So let's break it down a little bit. Is forged always better than stamped, or is that too simple? In some cases, is stamped a great option?

SPEAKER_00 12:40

Aaron Powell Oh boy. It depends if if it doesn't matter to you, yes, but I I just think a forged knife makes a huge difference over a stamped knife. Just the weight, the balance, there's less uh strain on your wrist when you're using it. It's gonna be easier to cut. Uh we have a new stamp line that's kind of geared towards food service. I mean, if if somebody's just looking for a knife and they don't care and, you know, they don't do a lot of cooking, but I would think most people would at least prefer a forged knife if they could afford it.

SPEAKER_02 13:11

Right. And I I think we have some of those food service knives and they're great. But is the purpose for some of those, you know, the handles, their NSF can go through a little bit more wear and tear, but they are a little bit less expensive. It's a great quality material, but those are the knives that sometimes get lost in a huge kitchen with 50 different cooks. And so it's one where, you know, the the set of knives that a chef collects and takes with them from one job to the next. It's like, you know, we're in a farming community. It's it's like their set of tools that that they've carry with them from job to job. You know, it's just kind of a different way of looking at things. But for the home cook, does the different types of, you know, you talked about a forge knife feels better in our hand. It it affects sharpness. We've talked about that, the weight, the balance, the edge retention. And so with steel can start to sound like a foregan language, and we got into that a little bit with the powdered steel and the and that type of thing. So we have German steel, we have Swedish steel, we mentioned powdered steel, Japanese style steel. What do people actually need to know about those differences and what to look for in a knife?

SPEAKER_00 14:30

What I like to say is I I mean, I could pull out a chart, Cindy, that showed all of the different brands and what we in the industry call initial cutting performance. And that is tested by putting a knife into a mechanic robotic arm and a stack of paper, and it's a predetermined height on the stack of paper, and that robotic arm will bring that knife through that stack, and it's how easily it cuts through that stack and how tall the stack is. That would be initial cutting performance. And then sustained cutting performance would be how many times that knife can continue to cut through that stack of paper and keep its edge. And that's where the differences come in between stamp forge and and the Damascus layered steels. The layered steels just hold an edge so much longer. I have some customers I've sold knives to since I started, and they haven't touched it in a couple years. I mean, that really says something. And that's why it's kind of taken over with uh chefs, too. They don't have time to be continually putting a knife on a steel when they're in the heat of the moment in a commercial kitchen.

SPEAKER_02 15:38

We've mentioned Rockwell hardness just a little bit. What is that in plain language? I know. In plain language, can you break that down?

SPEAKER_00 15:46

We just have a laser that runs along the edge and tests the hardness. Our knives, uh for the most part, German knives, most of them are around a 57 Rockwell. We have some knives that are 61 Rockwell. The issue is if you go too high on that Rockwell scale, it also can cause the steel to get too hard and and and be too brittle so that it chips, which there's been some manufacturers out there that tried to push that limit. I heard there were some knives coming out of Japan when they were pushing the 67 Rockwell. And just so you know, every degree you go up is like the degrees of a hurricane. So to go from 61 to 67 is substantial.

SPEAKER_02 16:30

Wow. All right. So uh it affects, you know, the edge retention and how long, you know, if we're using a knife. So an inexpensive knife, it's definitely I've figured out it's an example of we definitely get what we pay for. If we are investing in a good quality tool, a great quality uh, you know, when we look at the steel is going to last longer and for for generations. If I take care of my knives and I get a good quality knife, how many years do you think it would last everyday use?

SPEAKER_00 17:07

You nailed it a lifetime. Yeah. You spend good money on a good quality knife, and it should last a lifetime. That's what the better quality knives all come with a lifetime guarantee. You know, and again, quite honestly, the people that buy some of the inexpensive knives aren't typically the people that maintain them either. So yeah, it just makes a huge difference. I always tell people the two things that you should invest in in the kitchen is good quality cutlery and good quality cookware.

SPEAKER_02 17:39

Yeah, I I think that's that's exactly right. You know, you get those those main things. It's those the little gadgets that can kind of fit a quick need. But when it comes down to a lot of those things, we just need a great knife to do a lot of the things with vegetables and things like that. All right. So let's go back to the question we hear all the time in the store. What knife should I buy? And it's not that simple across the board. What is the first thing someone should think about when choosing a knife?

SPEAKER_00 18:10

Uh the first thing, the very first knife I think everybody should buy is something to cut vegetables. And like everything else, you have an assortment of things to choose from. But the chef's knife has made a big comeback, primarily, I think, because it's being used a lot more in the food network. But there's also the Santoku, which everybody's familiar with because that's the one Rachel Ray's used for years. It's the one with the little dimples on the face of the blade, so the food doesn't stick as easily. And then there's the Nicurity, which is kind of a squared-off version of the Santoku, and that's what the Pioneer Woman uses. One of those three blades, you should have something to chop vegetables with. When I see somebody struggling to cut celery or carrots or anything in their kitchen and they're using a paring knife, it just makes the job ten times harder than it should be.

SPEAKER_02 19:00

Right. Does hand size, cooking style, uh, you know, how important is the weight? Some people like a heavier knife, some people like a lighter weight knife. But let's start like with hand sizes. If I'm handling a knife in my hand, what do I need to think about as I as I hold that knife?

SPEAKER_00 19:17

Well, it should feel like an extension of your hand or of your arm. You don't want it to feel like it's cumbersome. Um, too often people buy block sets of knives and it comes from an Indian chef and they don't feel comfortable with it, so they never use it. That's why at stores like yours, people typically come in and custom the set they want to put together. So they'll put the pieces together that feel good. Quite honestly, though, it has something to do with the cutting tasks too, though, Cindy. Like if I'm at home and I'm making a salad by myself, I'm not gonna pull out an eight or ten-inch chef knife. I'd probably use a six-inch chef or a five-inch Santoku, because it's I'm just not doing large chopping jobs. So the type of job you're doing as well as how good it feels, your hand size can make a difference. I remember back in the day somebody said, Oh yeah, it's based on your height. I I don't know where someone came up with that. It doesn't that doesn't play into it at all, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_02 20:10

Yeah. What do you think the biggest mistake people make when choosing a knife?

SPEAKER_00 20:16

Wow. I think the biggest thing is, and this sounds kind of weird, they don't hold it. Honestly. They'll just go, Oh, yeah, that one looks good. I'll take it. Then they get it home and it's either too light or too heavy. It's like somebody that buys cast iron cookware and then gets it home and can't lift it up to get it up on the stove because it's too heavy. I mean, it's cast iron. So, yeah, typically really hold it, especially if you're investing in this knife and you're gonna keep it for the rest of your life. Make sure you hold it and it feels good because, again, just from our perspective, we have the typical European style handles. We have the octagon Asian style handles. So it really should feel comfortable in your hand, or you're not gonna use it the way you should.

SPEAKER_02 21:02

Yeah. So when we're holding it too, I I actually was talking to someone about knives yesterday, and I asked him if he was a rocker or a chopper. And uh, and that's something I kind of learned from you, and it's something I've had to think about with my own knife use. So tell me when we think about how we cook and those types of knives that we've discussed, what are the what's the best option if I'm a rocking? Um, you know, and it's hard to, you know, people are listening to this the majority, but I think, you know, if you use a knife, you know, okay, do I hold it up on its tip and the the the knife net rarely leaves the cutting surface entirely? Is that a correct way to kind of say rocking versus shot chopping?

SPEAKER_00 21:41

Do you want me to pull out the two different blades so we can buy it? I have a few knives in my kitchen by one. This would be a a chef's knife. Okay. And you can see that the belly is very round on this versus a Santoku, which is almost a straight edge. So the Santoku would be more the would be more for the people that is a chopper. And the chef's knife would be somebody that likes to rock because that that round belly allows you to rock the knife.

SPEAKER_02 22:14

Yeah. And like my grip, I kind of I kind of choke up on the grip. So sometimes I like a knife that has a little bit of an edge off, but I mean my my fingers sometimes go off to the very end of the the metal, you know, where right above the handle.

SPEAKER_01 22:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 22:31

And so, you know, I got to think about how that handle fits in my hand and and that type of thing too.

SPEAKER_00 22:37

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 22:38

Where okay, so specific guidance with the with the line of Kingshan. You know, we have the Helena in the store. Who does the the Helena line fit, the the type of chef that that goes for?

SPEAKER_00 22:51

I think that's somebody that feels more comfortable with a German steel, with a little bit more conservative of a handle, tried and true, and they're also kind of a price conscious customer because that eight-inch chef knife in in Helena is $69.95, which is unheard of for the quality of that product. One other thing we just found out that our owner's doing is a lot of times with these palm, that's the material that we all use in the industry, plastic, they were cracking regardless of the manufacturer, the rivets. So now he puts a carbon fiber powder in with the plastic before he injection molds it. So it just tells you anytime he comes up with a problem that we could have he kind of foresees it and corrects it. The other knives I mean again they're most of the Asian knives are a little lighter weight than the traditional German knives, but a couple of bars week put a uh fiberglass handle on it so that it makes it a little heavier, a little better balanced than the typical Asian knife. Because most Asian chefs are using the front end of the blade. They're more slicing things than rocking it. So if you're going to rock a chef's knife like a more traditional European knife then you want a little weight behind it as well.

SPEAKER_02 24:09

So what is the line that is a little bit more of an upgrade to the Helena?

SPEAKER_00 24:13

That would be uh Kita.

SPEAKER_02 24:15

Keda, okay.

SPEAKER_00 24:16

Which is the blue handle which that's a that's the funniest thing. I just uh a a a store that's also in your buying group here in the Detroit area I was in their store a couple weeks ago and she hired a new person to work there and I gave him the option of here you can choose either one of these knives you want. He liked the way that the cure which is our more traditional handle felt in his hand but he picked the kita because he liked the color and he liked the handle. So it's it's a it's a really a personal preference thing.

SPEAKER_02 24:47

Right. And then if we were to go uh one step above that what would you say line wise? Would if somebody was looking for just a showpiece what would they go for?

SPEAKER_00 24:59

It's a brand new line which I'll be showing you when I come out to the Dakotas in the next few weeks here it's called Era and it's the one that's 135 layers of this new DomEx steel and it has a pocket wood handle. It's just beautiful. You know some of the knives we make are like a piece of art the way they are the the the you know the Damascus etchings and the blade and and this one's top the line this will be our best line.

SPEAKER_02 25:27

Yeah. So when we're looking at a knife and we're looking at the price uh we're paying for the steel we're paying for the design we're paying for the handle material the finish the craftsmanship is it kind of the combination of all of those things that that kind of attributes to the price you know that's kind of like a give and take kind of thing when you're when you're a knife manufacturer how do you decide what's most important?

SPEAKER_00 25:51

Well you know I just bought a new car and when I'm buying anything I usually go online and I do the checklist of what I've what I want in a car. People should do the same thing when they're buying a a knife. I mean first off what are you going to do with it? Do you like a heavier knife? Do you like a lighter weight knife? Do which look of a of a knife do you prefer? Do all that a little a little bit of background stuff before you head into the store.

SPEAKER_02 26:19

Yeah and and so we kind of touched base on the a la carte method I've I've said that the best set of knives is something you put together on your own. I hate to sell a set of knives and I've you know I've had a block of knives and I use three four or five knives at most out of that set. So if someone were to come in and be like okay I'm just getting started I want to upgrade you talked about something to chop vegetables with so we need a chef's knife a Santoku Nikiri or an Asian utility what are the other knives that you think somebody could start with so if we were going to go for a total of four what are the three other blades that we should go for?

SPEAKER_00 27:00

Yep the next one I would go pairing because you're doing a lot of peeling dicing small coring jobs it's always good to have a little pairing knife then I would go bread knife especially with all the people doing sourdough bread now you want something that has a serrated scalloped edge and it shouldn't be used just for bread. You're going to use it on tomatoes, cucumbers, lemons, limes, oranges, all kinds of things. And then the last piece I would recommend would be a carving knife. Even though you're only going to pull a carving knife out a few times a year to do a roast or turkey or ham, you can't cut nice thin slices with a big thick chef's knife or Santoku or so it makes a big difference.

SPEAKER_02 27:44

What is a knife that people tend to misuse the most chef's knife. Chef's knife?

SPEAKER_00 27:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:50

Yeah obviously a bread knife is serrated and so pe we try to cut bread with a chef's knife that's not going to glide through we'll squish the the bread.

SPEAKER_00 28:00

Check this out while we're on the subject of that I've just put together a flyer for your buying group we we had it at the housewear show and we got a hold of our social media people and said yeah can you produce this whole thing lay out the pages and everything and I'm looking over the copy for an eight inch chef and he's he he's got the cot the copy correct but then he's got a chef's knife cutting through a loaf of bread and I go to him I said you know no that's that's not going to work that you can't do that. He says oh no that's the way it is on social media though. Some some of these young kids are using a chef's knife for bread. It's gonna smash the bread it just you don't get a nice slice out of it when you use a chef's knife. It's plain and simple.

SPEAKER_02 28:45

Yeah. When does a block make sense?

SPEAKER_00 28:50

When you've got enough knives to put it in. I mean and it really does depend upon the counter space. That's why we see a lot of people using indoor trays now. If you want a more commercial look or maybe a hands-on storage item there's magna bars. We also have some really cool magnetic blocks which are doing really well for us. They give it a little bit more high-tech uh contemporary look. And then there's blade guards at the very least there's plastic guards you could put on the knife to throw at the drawer. Don't just throw a bunch of knives in the drawer. That's a recipe for disaster.

SPEAKER_02 29:26

Yeah not kind to the knives and not kind to our fingers and not kind to all the other stuff that's in the drawer at the same time. Yeah exactly we have people wanting to come in and and I think traditionally we are definitely now into the generation that has never known anything other than going to a big box store and picking up a box of a set of knives. And so if we were wanting to gift someone knives, because that's one of our big is it best for somebody to wait and come in with the person that they're wanting to buy the knives for that's not fun. We want to surprise them what is there kind of a guide that we can think about if we're trying to buy knives for someone that we love?

SPEAKER_00 30:09

Well you know most manufacturers have three piece sets which are good starter sets and they usually come with a pairing chef's knife slicing knife or a bread knife and I really think that's a nice starter set to get going. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:25

And I think then the person can uh you know I have different knives with different types of handles because they serve different purposes in my kitchen. So especially I do have a nice drawer organizer that that keeps everything nice and secure and we sell those in the store but I'm not so caught up on all of my knives matching because I know all right this is my knife that I use for tomatoes and soft skin vegetables and things like that. So I I think when we've talked in the past we've talked about Julia Child's kitchen and you you mentioned how you have a ton of knives in your kitchen. How do you choose what knife you're gonna use? Is there a couple knives that you just go back to time and time again?

SPEAKER_00 31:09

Yeah yeah I've got a 10 inch chef that I love but I've been I you know I've been using knives forever. I think in most cases though you and I can say that we like to have a diverse you know assortment of products like cookware in particular I've got five or six different lines of cookware but most customers are all about matchy match. They truly are especially if it's going to sit on a counter they have to make sure it looks good so all the handles have to be the same. I've learned that over the years and there's no fighting it with some people. Yeah the funny thing is some of those people don't even cook but they've got the best looking knives and and a pot rack full of the highest end cookware in their kitchen.

SPEAKER_02 31:54

Well those are the friends I want then I can come over and yeah yeah I love those kind of people are are younger customers choosing different knives than older customers?

SPEAKER_00 32:05

Yeah we uh we kind of figured out one of the big trends in kitchen cutlery is first off the demographic of people that are buying the most cutlery today. That age group is typically 25 to 45 and they are they they're steering towards the Asian style blades and they like things that look different and kind of stand out. The show that's called Forged in Firexty seven layer Damascus they're a little bit more I I don't want to say anything about our parents I think our this next generation is a little more savvy when it comes to uh some of the some of the technical terms of coloring well we definitely have more options and more uh more access to information and it can get overwhelming but it comes down to gosh how it feels in our hand how it looks because of that is so important.

SPEAKER_02 33:03

I think it we've I mentioned countertop candy again. So if knives are functional but if they live on our countertop they become a part of our kitchen yeah it's just an important tool that that looks good and works good. And that's what I love about your line, Kangshan and just gosh, I I just love chatting with you guys. And in Chicago, I got a chance to see all the things to come. So I'm really excited to have you in the store and hopefully we will kind of maybe set an hour or two where we can have an open house style event where people can come in and maybe even touch and feel all the knives that we don't have every day in the store kind of a a trunk show if you will that we can always place special orders for people if they're looking for something really special. I think that it goes without saying that I'm always curious about knives and there's so many different elements to what we can talk about. And I think next time for another episode with you we're going to get into caring for our knives cutting board storage and techniques on how to use our knives but before we wrap this first conversation Ed if someone takes away one big thing about choosing the right knife what should it be?

SPEAKER_00 34:15

Hold it I said that before I mean it's amazing. Yeah it has to feel good and you have or you're not going to use it. How many times do you see people that have knives in their kitchen that have been just been sitting in their drawer for years and they never use them so select them be selective on what you and here's the other thing I wanted to mention too Cindy when a customer walks into a store like yours they should feel confident that you've done your homework that you've been to the trade shows that you've had conversations and meetings with vendors and you have selected or curated what you believe to be the best products in each category and they should have the the faith in you that you've made made it a lot easier for you for them to select a a knife or cookware or whatever else in a buy.

SPEAKER_02 35:05

Well I think you've made it easy to learn and it's a it's always a joy to talk to you and and the rest of your team because I think the value the relationships that we've all built over the years and so we trust your knowledge and we trust the quality and I I think we skipped a major thing what's happening with Kingshan is the location of where the items are going to be coming from in the coming months and years. Tell me real quick about uh Texas.

SPEAKER_00 35:36

Well we have a our umbrella company now is called Austin Cutlery and Tool and underneath that is Kangshan Cutlery our food service division which is New Star Food Service a category called Our Taste which is food service items geared more towards retail and then the final piece in the puzzle is going to be called Ember and Iron which will be our first American made cutlery that we will have within the next year and a half to two years. So yeah Austin cutlery you can't make you can't make it any more American than Austin Texas is what which is where we're headquartered.

SPEAKER_02 36:12

Right. I love it and so the quality and then we always look for all of the the things and when we can find an American company American made you know it's it's just a great thing to kind of be able to come back to. Ed thank you so much for joining me today. Yes we're excited to to be in touch and and have you back in the store and we'll we'll sit down soon to continue to learn all about knives and we appreciate your guidance.

SPEAKER_00 36:39

Before we before we leave and I know we're going to get into this subject on our next call yeah no titanium cutting boards oh yes last thing I want to say trends that's a bad trend that's been in the cutlery industry for 38 years no titanium cutting boards. It's either the worst thing that's happened to cutlery or the best thing that's happened to cutlery because you took it it was a joke that a knife manufacturer came up with the idea of titanium cutting boards or dying.

SPEAKER_02 37:09

Yes oh my lands oh my gracious thank you so much it is a pleasure as always thanks Ed take care you too what I keep coming back to is that choosing the right knife is not about perfection it is about confidence it is about finding the tool that feels good in your hand makes sense for the way you cook and helps you feel more capable in your kitchen. We'll link to Kangsheng and the knives we discussed in the show notes and if you're a local or passing through please come hold them in person at Barry and Basil in beautiful downtown Chamberlain, South Dakota. Also make sure you're following Barry and Basil on social media so that you'll be one of the first to know when Ed is coming through our store. We'd love to create an opportunity for you to meet him in person. And if you could please follow Joy Curated on social media and in the podcast app of your choice. It helps more people find these conversations and we are so grateful that you are here. Until next time keep creating gathering and finding joy in the tools and pretty things that make your kitchen feel a little more like home