The Forehead Kiss Effect

A single line in a romance book can crack something open and then suddenly you’re talking about your whole life. That’s where we go while we catch up on Becka Mack’s hockey romance series, Playing For Keeps, from Consider Me and Play With Me to the heavier punch of Unravel Me. We start with a surprisingly emotional question: why does a forehead kiss feel so powerful? We dig into the “care” factor, the nostalgia, and why small, quiet intimacy can land harder than anything explicit. 

From there, we get into the characters that make this sports romance series work, especially Hank, the side character who keeps nudging everyone toward a real happily ever after. We talk soulmates, what it means to fit, and why kissing can feel more vulnerable than sex. Then the conversation shifts into trauma in romance novels, including the truth that bruises you can’t see can hurt just as much as the ones you can. We connect that to aftercare, emotional safety, and how old trauma can resurface when you least expect it. 

We also talk found family, chosen community, and why “but that’s your blood” isn’t a free pass when boundaries get crossed. And because we can’t help ourselves, we hit body image, C-section scars, single parent realities, and why Adam and Rosie’s story sticks. We end on friendship, hockey, and the weird magic of relationships that feel like puzzle pieces clicking into place. If you’re into hockey romance, contemporary romance books, found family stories, and honest mental health talk, come hang with us. Subscribe, share the show with a romance-reader friend, and leave a review so more people can find Wrecked By Fiction.

Check out our Bookshop.com book store where you can get your own copy of the books we are covering!  https://bookshop.org/shop/wreckedbyfiction

Transcript

Welcome To Wrecked By Fiction

Emma 0:01

Welcome to the Wrecked by Fiction podcast.

SPEAKER_00 0:06

Yes, it is. Did I read it on my lunch break? Yeah. I made I made notes because I didn't know there was gonna be a quiz.

Emma 0:13

Hey, everything's for a great while I was watching a movie with my six-year-old. Yeah. I didn't know I could be both right and so fucking wrong. Wrecked by fiction, where we read, cry, and question our emotional stability.

Getting Back Into Becca Mack

Emma 0:33

You ready to talk about Mac?

SPEAKER_03 0:35

Yeah.

Emma 0:36

Yeah. I mean, yeah, it's been a while uh since I hung out with them.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

With Olivia and Carter.

Emma 0:47

Especially Olivia and Carter. And Garrett and But I guess not really because I read Breathe With Me when it came out in the fall. Yeah. Like November, I think. Um so I have been with them, just not the original. Book one was almost a year ago. Yeah. And that's okay. So but it I I did uh request that you read it because of well, one book, but really two books. You just haven't gotten to the other books in the series. Fifth one is the one. Fifth one. Okay. Yeah. Breathe with me is the one that was absolutely brutal. But I knew that you would take that unravel me would get you into it. Um, I knew you would probably be hooked from the beginning, um, but I thought that unravel me would get you um in the feels in a way that maybe the other ones didn't.

Amanda 1:57

Yeah. So your prediction is correct on that. Unravel me is the one that I have the most highlights in for sure. Yeah. And I think the one that I I think we have a text post about that one where I was texting you about about that one specifically a lot, but some of that.

Emma 2:14

Well, I think that too is that book has um it has the the parent piece, like the single parent piece, right? Where like the other books obviously don't have that. Um so I thought, yeah.

Amanda 2:30

And also the the loss of parents as well. Oh yeah. Yeah. That too was relatable. My biggest thing with Olivia and Carter was like they were cute, right? I liked Becca's writing style. It was easy to listen to, easy to read on the parts that I did, you know, jump over to the ebook and read instead of listen. Somewhat relatable characters, more so a little bit than what we've been reading so far. I mean, it's not like mafia millionaires, right? Sure. Um still millionaires, the girls, not so much, but the players, yes. Yes. Um, but I like a female main character that I can relate to a little bit more. And they're a little bit more relatable, so yeah.

Emma 3:16

I would say Olivia definitely is is but uh well, Olivia, but I think probably Rosie is the most relatable of the FMCs in the entire series.

SPEAKER_03 3:28

Okay.

Emma 3:29

Um yeah, because you get with uh Olivia is relatable to an extent. Jenny, I think falls a little bit on the outside for me personally, with my life. Yeah. I don't have a whole lot, there isn't a whole lot of relatability with Jenny. Um, but then Rosie, who is like in every essence, uh self-made. Yes. Everything that she has, she has created for herself. I relate to that. For sure.

Amanda 3:57

So yeah, same.

The Forehead Kiss Theory

Amanda 3:59

So one of the things that I had highlighted in Consider Me, the first one. They talk about it says, but when I try to put a tiny bit of space between us, Carter pulls me back, bends his neck, and presses a fleeting kiss to the crown of my head. Something that that I have come up with, and this doesn't necessarily have to do with the book, but it made me think of it when I read the whole forehead kisses, right?

SPEAKER_03 4:21

Mm-hmm.

Amanda 4:22

I have a theory about forehead kisses, and I'm curious because I haven't told you this theory before. So I'm curious what your psychological brain says when I tell you this.

Emma 4:30

Okay.

Amanda 4:31

My theory about forehead kisses is as I have become a mother, when my child is sick, the first thing that I do to check for a fever is kiss her forehead.

Emma 4:42

Okay.

Amanda 4:43

Because it's the more accurate, like some moms will do the back of the hand, right? But your your lips are supposed to be more accurately tuned to your normal body temperature. So they're more accurate on telling you whether your kid has a forehead kiss or has a t temperature, right?

SPEAKER_03 4:58

Okay.

Amanda 4:59

So my theory is that when we get forehead kisses, it takes us back to our childhood and being cared for. Because we were getting those, because that was how our mother would have checked for a fever. Interesting. And so that's why it's something that's so calming or intuitive, I guess. I don't because a forehead kiss, when I get one from a man, it's like I melt, right? And it's like, oh, that feels really good. And I would take that over like a good hug any day.

Emma 5:29

Well, so I think there are two so two things. Number one, I that specific instance in that book, I'm fairly certain he wasn't kissing her forehead. He was kissing up here. Maybe because of their height difference. Because I'm because Carter is 9,000 feet tall. Yeah. And Olivia's time. Right. Yeah. But so I'm pretty sure he was kissing the top of her head rather than her forehead. Right. But um I do so I think in a lot of instances, um, especially in fiction, those those moments where like they're like nuzzling the hair and they're like, they're kissing up here, they're kissing your forehead, whatever. Um, it's almost as like like second nature esque. Like it it's done without having to think about it. Yeah. But I do your theory is interesting to me because that concept of like figuring out like that like nostalgia piece, I guess. Uh I don't, I mean, I don't disagree with you. I think that it's absolutely possible that it takes you back, like your psyche, it, you know, your uh your hind brain is um it allows you to kind of let go. It it definitely comes back to that uh feeling of like somebody else is handling it type of situation. Yeah. Um I do think it's funny though you mentioned like that you like melt, because I think that's a pretty common feeling, especially now, like uh any of the conversations that I have witnessed around like forehead kisses, where it's like uh forehead kisses mean more than like fucking.

Why Kissing Feels So Intimate

Emma 7:20

Yeah. Like, because the intimacy piece of kissing your partner on their forehead is so much more intense than intimacy of actually having sex.

Amanda 7:34

Agreed. Um even just kissing for me is more intimate. Like mouth kisses is more intimate than sex because there's it's a face thing.

Emma 7:44

Like I couldn't I can't imagine having sex and not kissing. Yeah. And that takes me back to uh, you know, not to not to bring every conversation back to heat of rivalry, but I can't help it. Um they have you know, a rendezvous, Shane and Ilya do, and afterwards, Shane texts, well, goes to text Ilya as he's leaving, and he types out, we didn't even kiss. And then he erases it and he doesn't say anything. But like they have this whole like marathon of fucking, and then he's like, We didn't even kiss on the mouth.

Amanda 8:23

Yeah.

Emma 8:23

And he's like broken about it. Yeah. And I think that is I mean, that is just so interesting. It ties so perfectly into that, like, not I don't know. I I mean, I guess, and that could be just like the monogamist in me, right? Like I having been with my partner for the better part of almost 15 years, right? Like, we're we're not that far off from that mark. Right. So, like, I can't imagine being intimate and not kissing. If I go back in time and I think about that, we do, you know, you you leave, especially in like in your twenties, you leave like kissing stops, right? Like you're not kissing your one night stands or the guy you meet at the bar or whatever. If you're hooking up, you're hooking up. Right. So yeah, I can see that. Kissing is intimate in a way that nothing else is. Right.

Amanda 9:18

And then forehead kisses are for whatever reason even more that's yeah. Intimate.

Emma 9:24

Forehead kisses are the what are we of kisses. Like, like we're married now. You you kissed me on the forehead, so you're stuck with me at that point. Interesting. Yeah. Have you had that thought before? Like how long have you, or is that like in that moment while you were reading Carter and Luvia?

Amanda 9:41

It didn't come up when I was reading. Um, it is something that came up to me probably seven or eight months ago. My daughter was really, really sick, and I had to keep checking for temperature because she doesn't like to take meds. And it just one of the times that I kissed her forehead, it popped into my head, and I was like, I wonder if this is why forehead kisses are something that is so loved by mostly women. I've heard some men enjoy them too. Um and it just was like it's a motherly kind of cared for feeling, and so maybe we're going back into that headspace a little bit whenever we get one from somebody. Because it's something that stops, right? Like you see the videos with the moms that are doing asking their kid Oh, like to pick them up or whatever. Asking their kid to ask to be picked up one more time because they didn't know that the last time they picked them up was gonna be the last time.

SPEAKER_03 10:41

Yeah.

Amanda 10:41

You don't know when the last time is that you're gonna kiss your kid's forehead to check for a fever and and and yet it's a time that you're doing something because you're caring for them and you know, who knows? And as a kid, you don't know the last time that your parent is gonna kiss your forehead.

SPEAKER_03 10:58

Right.

Amanda 10:58

So it's something that all of a sudden it's just gone and we miss it.

Emma 11:02

Yeah. Hmm. Well, thanks for that. Now I'm gonna think about that every time I kiss my kids.

Amanda 11:08

Well, you're welcome. Huh. Okay. So now I make sure that I kiss my daughter's forehead even when she's not sick. Just to give her that little bit of comfort.

Emma 11:20

Hmm. Great. That's gonna be thanks for that. Thanks for that. I'm trying to think if I do it outside of them being sick. That's where I'm stuck.

Amanda 11:32

Yeah. I'm sure you do.

Emma 11:34

I mean, I definitely like kiss them, right? But their forehead, I don't know if I kiss their forehead outside of them being sick.

Amanda 11:41

Yeah. Fuck you.

Emma 11:43

Damn.

Amanda 11:45

Sorry to all these moms out there. I wasn't trying to shame anyone.

Emma 11:50

Next. Jesus.

Amanda 11:55

Oh gosh. Was there anything with Carter and Olivia that kind of stuck out for you?

Emma 12:00

I mean, I

Hank And What He Reveals

Emma 12:01

think that the biggest part of that book, which was for me, is that really like Carter and Olivia, it's it's sweet. Um they're really laying the foundation right because the series is five books.

SPEAKER_03 12:15

Yeah.

Emma 12:15

Um, and so they're they're laying the foundation, they're laying the you know, initial like character introductions. Um Hank is I love Hank. My is my favorite um side character in like really any book series I've ever like possibly ever read. Right. Um, I just can't get I could never continuously, every freaking book could never get over how beautiful he calls all of these women so beautiful and the most beautiful person he's ever seen. Hank is blind. I can't even see Hank is fucking blind. And I think that like that book especially made me emotional because um of the story of like Hank explaining why he feels the way he feels for Carter and like the relationship that they have and his wife, and um, so yeah, I think that Hank is the thing that I got emotionally tied to.

Amanda 13:22

Yeah.

Emma 13:23

Um in especially in Consider Me.

Amanda 13:25

Yeah. So I could see that. He is he is definitely a side character that I think was necessary. I don't think the book especially that first book, I don't think would have been the same without him.

Emma 13:38

Yeah. Well, I think as much as I would love to say I do, I don't know Becca Mac. Uh I m might pee my pants if I ever got to meet her. Um, but we can't we can only, you know, make our own assessments on the when she was planning these books and how she created this side character. Right. Um, and what his purpose was, right? Like every reader is different the way that we are analyzing the books. So our assumption of what Hank's purpose was might not have been Hank's purpose at all. Right. Um, but for me, Hank was utilized in a way that showed Carter's humanity in a way that you hadn't seen before that. Right. And I think that is so necessary, just like you said. And and that is a theme throughout the series. Hank continues to do that. He he opens up a different piece of the male main characters in every single book. Yeah. Aside that they weren't initially showing, you know, whether it be showing just the FMC or showing everyone. Um, they he kind of he's he's a meddler.

Amanda 14:56

Yes.

Emma 14:56

Um in the best way. Yes, he's pushing for the happily ever afters of each of these men. Right.

Amanda 15:03

Well, because he had such an amazing relationship with his wife, and I think he wants that for them. And I think that's a beautiful thing. Not everybody has that experience and gets to share that and share their knowledge of how they made other made their relationship work for that long. Right? Because relationships are freaking hard.

Emma 15:26

Yeah.

Amanda 15:27

And for them to be open to and willing to take his advice is a whole other thing because a lot of young people won't listen to the older generations because it is different, right? But I think that the way that he went about it was always very respectful and just beautiful. And how he was able to get them to all open up and become better humans. So Yeah.

Emma 15:54

I thought I yeah, I think that Hank for that was the biggest piece for me in c in consider me for sure. Yeah. I don't know how much of book two of Jenny and Garrett that other than like the comedy piece of Carter in the second book. Um, I don't know how much of that like I retained or like that like stuck with me. I don't know.

Amanda 16:21

Did you have any like anything specific from So I have three things that I kind of highlighted in Play With Me.

Soulmates And Softness After Harm

Amanda 16:29

Okay. The first one was that's what a soulmate is. Someone with smooth edges to soften our sharp ones, someone who fits us so perfectly, vibrates on the sea same frequency, makes all our best parts shine, and together, together everything is exactly the way it's meant to be. And that's a Hank quote. To me, that was yeah, it was beautiful because of the you know, he's talking to Jenny and telling her that he says, I know there's someone something extra special waiting for you, Jenny, a love above all the rest. Because she was kind of at a point where she was kind of checking out, um, she was frustrated, right? And scared to tell Carter. Yeah. And so Hank was just trying to encourage her, and I thought that his description of a soulmate was just absolutely beautiful and true for sure. The next one that I have, and I will give trigger warning um with SA. Okay. It is where Garrett says to Jenny, please don't brush off whatever happened because he didn't leave bruises on your body. Bruises you can't you can't see can hurt just as much as the ones you can. To me, that was beautiful because it's true. There are, you know, emotional challenges that come along with things that happen not just to women, but it happens to men as well. And finding a partner that can understand that and to be willing to be soft and let you be vulnerable about that, and to understand that you know, there's gonna be sensitivities about some things that come up in the bedroom or even just around the house or whatever. Um and that was a moment that Garrett really impressed me where he was just being so soft and gentle with her, and it was a little bit unexpected that he was just like, whoa, wait a minute. Like we need to talk about that because that's it's not right for for that to have happened.

Emma 18:31

Yeah. So I think that's a conversation that we have um kind of in like the therapy world a lot, right? Where abuse number one is not only physical, right? We all know, we all know that. Yeah. Um, or we should by this point. Um, but that scars from abuse, the physical ones, you know, bruises fade, things heal externally. Um, you can look at people on the street and see them that physically there's nothing wrong with them. Um, but the things that we carry internally are more than likely with us for a lifetime.

SPEAKER_03 19:09

Right.

Emma 19:10

And that's so important, like what you said about finding a partner that allows you number one, allows you to be vulnerable, but in the same space is soft enough that you have um you have that space held for you when you need to fall apart. And as someone who is blessed to have a partner who holds that space for me,

When Old Trauma Comes Back

Emma 19:38

um, I do, you know, obviously wish for everyone that I have ever met and will never meet to also have that. Because I myself had a moment um, you know, a few weeks ago where I had kind of went into like a mental health crisis situation. Um, and I was dealing with some very old, very, very old, unresolved trauma that I thought was resolved.

SPEAKER_03 20:05

Right.

Emma 20:05

And you never know when it's gonna resurface.

SPEAKER_03 20:08

For sure.

Emma 20:08

And I think that for me, when Garrett says things like that in the book, that's what he means. That's that's where it hits for me, is that's like you don't know when it when it's going to affect you. Right. You don't know what the trigger could possibly be. It could literally be something that has absolutely nothing to do with what happened with what happened to you, right? But it will trigger a physical response from your body. Because that's what happened to me a couple weeks ago. And I was like, I had a safe place to land, and it took a therapy session and an evening at home with my spouse to realize that I was in an active mental health crisis, but I didn't know that because we don't fucking talk about it enough. No, we don't talk about the lasting results of trauma on our brains. No. And I god, I just I love books. Why? And I've mentioned this before on other episodes. Trauma is so fucking relatable.

Amanda 21:13

Yeah.

Emma 21:14

Like you don't, I I don't I'm talking to everyone. You don't know a single person who has never had something traumatic happen to them.

SPEAKER_03 21:23

Right.

Emma 21:24

Every single person you have ever met. Yeah. My six-year-old has had trauma. Right.

Amanda 21:28

Yeah.

Emma 21:29

And I mean, and here's the thing, and I, you know, and we'll move on because I that's I don't want that this to be the topic of this fucking episode. That's okay. But the way that we discuss trauma has changed so heavily, and part of that is because of literature.

Amanda 21:49

Agreed.

Emma 21:49

And fiction books, especially because we are reading, and especially men, we are reading whether the man is the one with the Trauma or the man is consoling someone with the trauma with the trauma. We are seeing vulnerability in a way that we as a the human population have never seen. And it's something that is so so so so so important for us to continue doing that. And for I s I mean, you know, I think everyone should read romance books because I think that there are so many things that we can learn from them. But I wish that, you know, had more uh gentlemen who would read and see why the rest of us actually like it. Yeah.

Amanda 22:43

Because there's so much about it that has nothing to do with the sex or whatever else that like I will add that until I read books about sexy times, I didn't know what aftercare was. Yeah. That had never happened. Yep. Um still hasn't happened. Um and that would be really fucking nice, you know, to have that. Um at this point, though, I think I don't know that it's ever I don't know that I'll ever give it a chance again. But yeah.

Emma 23:15

You're young still.

Amanda 23:17

It's gonna take a really strong person to break that down.

Emma 23:20

Yeah, we know.

Amanda 23:21

Yeah.

Emma 23:21

Moving forward so that we don't have a total meltdown on the pod.

Amanda 23:26

Right. I was gonna add one more thing.

Emma 23:28

What?

If You Are In Crisis 988

Amanda 23:29

That if you are listening to this and you are in a mental health crisis, please reach out to someone that you love. Um, and if you don't have someone that you love, please look up 988.

Emma 23:40

Yes.

Amanda 23:41

Thank you. Because I didn't I couldn't remember it.

Emma 23:43

Call 988.

Amanda 23:44

Call 988. There are people there that will help you.

Emma 23:46

Yep.

Amanda 23:47

Um, okay. The last one that I had highlighted in play with me was uh let me figure out where this was. It's Garrett talking to Jenny.

Found Family And Cutting Ties

Amanda 23:55

And he says, But I think you are my family. He finally replies softly, urging my gaze to his. Patient and kind, full of compassion. The guys, Kara, Ollie, they're the family I found here. The one I chose, and I think you are part of it too. Now I want you to be. At least you feel like you belong in it. And this did not hit me when I read it.

Emma 24:23

Um I'm so proud of you. I was wondering when we were gonna get to the found family piece of these books.

Amanda 24:29

Um, yeah. As someone who did not me to go?

unknown 24:34

Yeah.

Emma 24:34

Can you second? Yeah. Found Family is so huge, especially like right now. Like there, it's everywhere, right? In all every book, every movie, um, we're seeing a lot of that. You build your own community. Right. You your own army of people to surround you. Um and but we grew up with the the horrible covenant of blood is thicker than water, which as we all as intellectual human beings know, that's not actually what it says. Um but where we we were told every day, family is everything, uh, family over everything. Um, still to this day, we will hear conversations that are surrounded like, oh, but that's your family. Right. But that's your blood. Right? I don't give a shit. No. Because if that person wrongs me, wrongs my children, wrongs my spouse, that's it.

Amanda 25:35

Yeah.

Emma 25:35

I I don't have enough, right? I don't have enough to give to allow those things to happen more than once. Right. You you get one shot.

SPEAKER_03 25:47

Yeah.

Emma 25:47

Um, and if you aren't recognizing that you're doing something wrong, coming to me, admitting that you did something wrong, I'm not openly handing out second chances. No. Or respect. Right. Yeah. And especially in this series, these characters have created a bond that many of us have never had the opportunity to be a part of.

Amanda 26:16

Right. Um, I would absolutely like love to just if they were real, I feel like it's a group that I could jump in with. Just like hop in. Yeah, and hang out and be cool. I wouldn't even have to date one of the guys. That'd be fine. I just want to be a part of the club. Just um, yeah. I could be an adopted sister. It's fine. Right. Team team mom.

Emma 26:34

Well, and I would be remiss to go this episode without talking about Kara because that girl is fucking ride or die, dude. Yeah. Like, there will come a day when you get to read Breathe With Me. Um, but Kara is easily the strongest person, not just woman, right, but person in this entire series. Okay. And she, the way that she shows up for each and every single one of these humans, both the men and women, is not just commendable, because that's what we should be doing as human beings anyway. Yeah. Um, but she is did you have you read the book where she punches somebody yet? I think so. Okay. She like punches somebody's ex. Is it Rosie's ex?

Amanda 27:27

No. No, because Adam punches Rosie's ex.

Emma 27:30

Is it Olivia's ex? She punches somebody's ex. I think it might have been Olivia's ex. I think it's at the beginning of the is at the beginning of cons anyway, we're getting off topic. Um, but like Kara is so damn hard, you know? Yeah. And the found family is and you get it in a lot of like sports romance series, right? Uh-huh. That that found family, that team aspect is so huge. Um, but there's something specific about this found family that I was obsessed with.

Amanda 28:06

Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely one that I was a little envious of. Yeah. For sure. Especially once we got into like Rosie and Adam because that built it up even more.

Emma 28:17

Their family unit. Yes.

Adam And Rosie As Parents

Emma 28:20

And we can transition into Adam and Rosie because their family unit, I might have sobbed for like 70% of that book. Like their their little their little family. It's so cute. Was but with with the the baby and the dog and and and I'm like, uh, yep. But I think that book, and I want to know what you have highlighted from there, because there are definitely some things that Adam said that hit me like a ton of bricks. But the one, like, there are so many moments that stick out. But I think the thing that is so difficult, the most difficult piece for me was when Adam beats the shit out of Rosie's baby daddy.

Amanda 29:12

Yeah.

Emma 29:13

When they burst in and when Rosie can't get inside. Yes.

Amanda 29:17

But she can hear because he left the dang toddler in the apartment by himself.

Emma 29:23

Yep. Yeah. She can't get inside and the baby is crying. Yeah. And they burst in and the toddler is underneath the playpen. Yeah. Yeah. And that is that just tore me apart. And I I want, I think the the piece about Adam that hooked me so like firmly was his desire to number one be a dad. Right. But number two, how he could not understand that the actual dad didn't want to do it. He he couldn't grasp the concept that there was somebody who didn't want to be a part of it.

SPEAKER_03 30:03

Yeah.

Emma 30:04

And I knew that was the thing that was going to get you too. That I was like, Yeah. Yeah. No, Adam was like, what the fuck is wrong with you? Like, how do you not want to be a part of this?

SPEAKER_03 30:15

Yeah.

Emma 30:15

How do you not want this woman? How do you not want your son? Right.

Amanda 30:19

Like you wanted her enough to make a baby, like whether the baby was accidental or not. Right. You wanted her enough to do the actions that it takes to make a child. Uh-huh. But yet you're not going to own up and then be a part of that child's life. And when you are a part of that child's life, you treat the child like it's an inconvenience.

SPEAKER_03 30:38

Yeah.

Amanda 30:39

Yeah.

Body Image After A C-Section

Amanda 30:40

That that definitely got me. Rosie's struggles with her body image also got me. That's one of the first things that I had highlighted. Um, first couple of things. Like the first one is whatever it is he's looking for, I'm not likely to stack up. The only thing I've been good at being is someone's second choice. Definitely been there. And then when she's getting ready for the date and she's telling herself, your scar is a badass badge of honor for having a life you created carved right out of you. And your stretch marks are tiger stripes, Rosie. You are strong, you are fierce, you are perfect just the way you are. Marco sweeps my bangs aside. Don't doubt that the per Don't doubt that the right person won't see that because he will. Sorry, she wasn't telling herself that her roommate Marco was telling her that before debate. And that is, yeah, as someone who has had to have a C-section, it is a struggle.

SPEAKER_03 31:34

Yeah.

Amanda 31:35

To think that someone else would ever find me attractive with that scar. And it wasn't by choice. Right. I worked hard to try to get my child to flip, and she was stubborn. So um, no, like that is something that I am trying to work on with myself, you know, is not letting the bad voices in my head win.

Emma 31:58

I think that Rosie's body image is you get so much of like in every book, really, I'm not completing a thought at this time. Everything is filtering through without. Um, okay. It's okay. It is late. In every book, you get those conversations where the male main character says things like, um, you know, you're the most beautiful girl in the room or the most beautiful woman. They don't call them girls.

SPEAKER_03 32:27

Right.

Emma 32:27

Um, woman in this bar, and everyone is looking at you, and that's like a pretty common conversation, right? That takes place. Um, and nine times out of ten, the woman involved is, you know, her POV is she has no idea that that's what's going on. Right. Do I think that that's entirely accurate? No. I think that realistically, I I kind of wish it didn't, they didn't do that. Because here's the thing. I know for a fact, and this is not like me shit talking on myself, but like as a human being, I'm human. Right. Like I walk into a place and I know that like I'm not being stared at. Being being stared at. As and if I am, it's not because I'm the most beautiful person in there.

Amanda 33:14

I got toilet paper on my shoe or something.

Emma 33:16

Yeah. Um and I think that not that they shouldn't talk like that in books because your partner in real life should think that no matter what, you are absolutely stunning all the time. Right. Right. But I also think maybe it's okay realistically for us to know that your partner can love you and be obsessed with you and think that you're gorgeous, but also at the same time realize that people are attracted. There are other people in that in the bar who are pretty, yeah, who are beautiful, who who maybe are beautiful more beautiful than you. Right. I'll look at like so it I do like while I love the sentiment, right, agreed that this uh that an MMC is wholeheartedly obsessed, no one else exists, everyone is ugly compared to her. Yeah. I do think that realistically probably not. We we know, right? I mean, we see it's um there's a TikTok trend where the it's uh it's a husband and he says, Stop turning me on right now or something. And it's there's like a sound, and he's it's talking about like how hot she looks and how uh like God stop looking at me like that, stop turning me on, whatever, whatever it is. And then the camera flips and she's like brushing her teeth, cooking dinner with her pajamas on, and like no, you know, she has like a pimple patch over here, and like, but it's like that that's like realistically, I know my partner more often than not wants to jump my bones when I look like absolute shit. Right.

Amanda 34:54

Like because I've witnessed it.

unknown 34:56

Yeah.

Emma 34:57

Like I look like a mess. I'll see you guys later. And that's the moment he chooses, right? Is like enough, right? Yeah. So I do think that both of that those things can coexist, yes, is what I'm saying.

Amanda 35:12

I agree. I do, I think what I liked about this part was that Rosie also has times where she is trying to change her own body image. Yes, right. So she is there's times where she's talking to herself. Like there was one about this body isn't perfect, but it's but for all it's done and everything it's given me, it's beautiful, right? So that's her instead of the man or a man in her life is trying to talk her up, she's talking herself up, which I was like, okay, that I need to think about, right? But I do agree with you that yes, it can be frustrating to read. And then the main male characters saying that she's like, You're the only person I see in the room, and it's like I just pointed out the hot chick that's over in the corner, too. Right, right, right, right, right, right. No, whatever. There was one thing that Adam says to her that I thought was really beautiful too. He says, Your thoughts are painful, yes, but not morbid. I can't put myself in your shoes, but I'd stand in them if it meant one last minute where you felt that pain alone. And I thought that that was really special. Um going back to when we were talking about the kid, and Rosie says what um about how we were talking about how the dad doesn't want to be in the kid's life. And one of the things she said was, then how come his dad is the one inflicting the hurt sometimes?

Emma 36:31

Yep.

Amanda 36:32

And that's yeah. There are definitely and it's less often there are moms that will also inflict pain on their children. Absolutely. But it is it is very sad that parents will ever inflict intentionally hurt on their children. Yeah. For sure. There's a couple others here. It's just Rosie, you know, talking herself up. I'm not somebody else's opinion of me. I'm strong, I'm resilient, my heart is big and kind. I'm always learning, I'm the only one of me. And I think that that is something that's hard to remember is like we aren't all the same. And I can be beautiful in a different way than you're beautiful. It doesn't make either of us less than. Right. Right. And that that is something that I think would make the world a completely different place if we could all just love each other for who we are and be kinder to each other and love ourselves better. I think a lot of people don't love themselves.

Emma 37:24

I do want to just take a second to say, like, this is a little comedic relief, maybe. Adam is our goalie.

Amanda 37:35

We know you like goalie.

Emma 37:36

And there's just something about a hockey goalie. Adam is my favorite.

Amanda 37:42

I think there's a video on our TikTok. I wonder goalie.

Emma 37:46

There is. Uh yeah, there is. Um why are your cheeks pink sometimes? Shut up. I Adam is my favorite MMC from this series. I don't know, like I have the relatability of Rosie is so high. Yeah. Um, but I don't think she's my favorite FMC. But Adam is like takes top spot for sure for me because of his like, I don't know how to say it other than to say like the fact that he's all in. Yes.

Amanda 38:20

Um and immediately.

Emma 38:22

Yeah. There's nothing half-assed, there's nothing, there's no uh hesitation. Right.

Amanda 38:28

If he wanted to, he would. Like he legit fills that.

Emma 38:31

Yep. It is the that immediate uh all in. I I said this is what I wanted and I meant it the first time. Right. Yeah. So he he is for sure top spot for me. Yeah.

Amanda 38:45

He's the first male character out of the series that wasn't the one that bookered things up. His ex did it.

Emma 38:52

Yeah.

Amanda 38:53

Right.

Emma 38:54

God, fuck that. Fuck that bitch.

Amanda 38:58

Uh yep. Yeah. He was he had done everything right, and if she hadn't come along, they would have just had the smooth sailing and no bumps in the roads. And right. Yeah. He he is definitely my favorite, for sure. For sure. And I like Rosie so far, is probably my favorite. She's probably your yeah. I'm not surprised by that. Mostly because I can relate so much to hers. There was one instance in the book I'm trying to. It is where Adam and Rosie are talking about her fears and her parents. Right? And at one point he tells her it says, tell them you see their pain. She s she shakes her head, tears falling faster. Rosie, I whisper, taking her face in my hands, please tell them. I see your pain, she cries. Good girl. I murmur, swiping at her tears. Now tell them you can't hold it for them. That moment is something that I think anybody that has lost a loved one in such a traumatic way can relate to. Um it's something that I thought about doing after I read that. I haven't yet, but it is something that I do still think would be very cathartic because I do think that we hold on to that for our loved ones when they've gone, right? Because we're still here and they're not. God damn it, Amanda. Sorry. Whoa. Well, if that one got you, the last one's really gonna get you. Then I'm not sorry.

Emma 40:41

I think that I I don't know. The grief in this series, but especially this Unravel Me and Then Breathe With Me are just next level. Yeah. So yeah, the the journey with grief for Adam and Rosie. Yeah, I don't have a whole lot to say on that front. Yeah. But go ahead with your with your final highlight.

Amanda 41:04

Last highlight. It is Adam's mom.

Friendship That Feels Like Fate

Amanda 41:08

I've always thought people were like puzzle pieces. That we spend our lives searching for someone who's shaped almost as if they're just for us. You find each other and you get this funny, excited feeling in your stomach. The closer you get, the more you learn about them. And then suddenly something slides into place, this perfect fit. Like you had this space saved just for them. And when they squeeze themselves in, it feels like your puzzle is finally complete. When I read that, I immediately thought of you.

unknown 41:36

God damn.

Amanda 41:37

And our friendship. Okay. And I almost text you immediately and I said, no, save it.

Emma 41:44

Isn't that crazy?

Amanda 41:46

I do feel like Wow, okay. For those who don't know, we have we have not even known each other for a year. We have known of each other for a year, but we did not start speaking for like four months after we were in the same facility. And then we didn't hang out for another three months after that. So we we have not had a very long friendship at this point, but we feel like we've known each other a lifetime.

Emma 42:16

I do feel it it is insane when I think about the way that our relationship has developed. Because like when when the first time I like noticed you sitting in the lobby at dance, I was like, I was like, oh, she's cool.

Amanda 42:36

Me and my resting bitch face. Yeah.

Emma 42:38

Well, you and your fancy buttholes.

Amanda 42:44

My fancy buttholesoles.

Emma 42:45

And then and then I heard a uh very unimportant person mention some things about um how silly your crochet hobby was. And I in that moment I was like, well, I think that crochet is cool. And and so I kind of I like watched, like this could be creep creeper, creeper status, but I like watched you. Um kind of to try to like suss out like number one, like where do we align? Right. Um, and then I may or may not have used our daughters as an excuse to exchange contact information. Um but that took me like six months to do.

Amanda 43:33

So and I think we both got the courage around the same time because we both approached each other at the same event.

Emma 43:40

Yeah. So I was like, do you want to can I can we have phone number exchange so that the kids can hang out over the summer?

SPEAKER_03 43:49

Yep.

Emma 43:49

But yeah, no, you have you um filled a void I didn't know was there.

Amanda 43:57

Yeah. Same. Um That's a lie. It's a void that I absolutely knew was there, but had no idea how to go about filling it because of how my friendships have gone in the past.

Emma 44:10

You're right.

Amanda 44:11

And from what I had just gone through with a whole group of friends.

Emma 44:15

Right, with other people. Yeah.

Amanda 44:17

That I was still processing when I met you.

Emma 44:20

Yeah. Yeah. So. Which is why it part of the reason it took so long for us to come to each other was because you were trying to figure out like what was safe and stuff. So well, uh, welcome to the shit show. Cause um, you know, it's almost our anniversary.

Amanda 44:40

And I think I'm PMSing, that's why I'm crying. Don't lie to them, Amanda. I'm kidding. I'm a total softie when it comes to realistic life stuff.

Emma 44:51

Yeah. Well, this is just because this is the first time the camera has caught it, does not mean this is the first time we have sat in these chairs and cried.

Amanda 45:01

That is very true.

Emma 45:02

So my god. Well, okay.

Amanda 45:06

Thanks, Becca Mac. Yeah, for opening up that can of worms. Oh my god.

Next Reads And Local Hockey Dreams

Amanda 45:11

Have you started I have not started it yet? Fall with me yet? Not yet. No, I switched to manicold and then went to one last rainy day and then severed heart and okay.

Emma 45:23

Well, well, you know, eventually we'll talk. I'll probably do eventually, you know, we'll talk fall with me and breathe with me, probably at the same time. But when whenever that comes, maybe I'll reread those those two when you I am missing the little hockey family, so I'll probably switch back to them pretty quickly. Yep. I do love them. They do.

Amanda 45:45

They own a special place in my heart because hey, we still need to reach out to Wichita Wichita Thunder and be like, hey, you need some team moms, sisters, something.

Emma 45:55

We discussed that on our way home from the hockey. Yeah. Be like, we'll be your personal uh if they can't get home. Social media, I'll take videos. Right. Yeah, be like host families. Yep. Can you imagine? Can you imagine?

Real Hockey Players Versus Book Giants

Emma 46:12

Also, hold on a second. I gotta last thing because I don't know what the camera is doing at this point. Um But when we left that game, we were looking at the height of some of these men that we watched play.

Amanda 46:24

Yeah.

Emma 46:25

And in the videos, standing on the other side, we were like, they don't look that tall. Oh my god. That goalie was like six four.

Amanda 46:33

I thought it was taller than that, even. I don't remember.

Emma 46:36

Something along I made a note. Something along you did. Something along those lines. But there's a video, the video I have of him on our page. He doesn't look over six feet tall.

Amanda 46:47

No.

Emma 46:47

And then I think about the men in these books. Right. And isn't Adam like six six or something along those? He's like the tallest of them, isn't he? I think so. I know he's the We don't even need to say that. I know. They have a competition. Yeah. Um on their uh their underwear ad. Yep.

Amanda 47:11

Um, here we go. Oh, I didn't I made the notes on who we were looking up, but I didn't actually make the note on what they were.

Emma 47:18

Oh, yeah. Okay.

Amanda 47:19

Because we looked it up while I was driving.

Emma 47:21

Oh, yes, yes, yes. Yeah. Well, yeah. So I I was like think like real life to fiction. I'm pretty sure it mentions in Unravel Me that Adam is like 6'5 or 6'6 or something. Right. And the men that we watched play hockey were around that height. They don't look that big. Yeah. And I don't know why. We were front row. It's not like we were like really far away. No, we were right there. We were sit we sat directly behind them. Yes. And they definitely didn't look 6'3, 6'4, 6'5.

Amanda 47:53

No. And to me, I feel like a goalie would want to be shorter.

Emma 47:56

More compact.

Amanda 47:57

Yeah.

Emma 47:58

Like short and stocky. Yeah, but every book you read, a hockey goalies are absolutely massive. Yeah. They're like bears. Yeah. Although in every time. Uh, but in my brain, Adam is like 6'6 and built. Right. But like lanky built. Yeah. Like in my head. Not stocky built. Yeah, when I when I picture him, he's lean muscle. Built still. Yeah. But lean. Not like bodybuilder. No. Fat neck type of stuff. Same. So. Yeah. Okay. Well. Alright. Well, uh, social media manager for the Witch Taw Thunder. Um, you know. If you see this, you won't. Uh, but you know, uh, if you do, uh we're we're down to be a part of the team. I don't know what that means.

Amanda 48:50

Host moms, right? Host sisters. Who knows? We are too old to be anything else.

Emma 48:55

Uh yeah, for the most part. For for the most part.

Amanda 48:59

Um, but if there's a player that can't make it home for a holiday, we were definitely born before the year 2000. And needs a family to hang out with. Wants a holiday meal. Sure.

Emma 49:13

Especially those like Canadian boys and stuff that you got going on.

Amanda 49:18

So is there a particular one that you wanted to mention?

Emma 49:23

Not at this moment in time. Okay. Oh

Final Thoughts And Goodbye

Emma 49:29

gosh. Anyway, we love you, Becca Mac.

Amanda 49:31

Yeah. Great series, for sure.

Emma 49:33

Absolutely insane. Yeah. And uh we're wrecked by fiction, so we'll see you later. Thank you. Bye.