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Talking Dairy
Finding opportunities with dairy beef | Ep. 125
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New Zealand’s reputation for producing sustainable, high-quality food is closely tied to how animals are cared for across the farming system. One of the sector’s ongoing challenges – and opportunities – is how non‑replacement dairy calves are managed.
In this episode of Talking Dairy, we explore the newly launched Dairy Beef Opportunities programme, a cross-sector initiative designed to lift the value of dairy-beef, unlock better outcomes for non‑replacement calves, and strengthen integration between the dairy and beef sectors.
Paul Edwards (DairyNZ), Richard McColl (Meat Industry Association), and Jim Inglis (Beef + Lamb New Zealand) share insights into what the programme aims to achieve, what’s underpinning the work, and what it could mean for dairy farmers – including how to get involved and where new value could be created across the supply chain.
Read more about the Dairy Beef Opportunities programme
Would you like to get involved? Find out more and register your interest here
Read the Inside Dairy story: Boosting the dairy beef sector
Have feedback or ideas for future episodes? Email us at talkingdairy@dairynz.co.nz
Stay up to date with advice, latest research, tools and resources. Read, browse, scroll, listen, or be there in person. Visit dairynz.co.nz/get-connected
Introduction
SPEAKER_00Kiora and welcome to Talking Dairy. I'm your host, Jack McGowan from DairyNZ. New Zealand's reputation as a leading producer of sustainable, high-quality food depends on many things, and the way we care for our animals is one of them. How we manage non-replacement dairy calves, often known as bobby calves, remains an ongoing challenge for the sector. But it's also an opportunity to create systems that deliver better outcomes for animals, for farmers, and right across the value chain. In this episode of Talking Dairy, we're talking about a new program called Dairy Beef Opportunities, which has recently been launched to help lift the value of the dairy beef sector, unlock the value of non-replacement calves, and strengthen integration between the dairy and beef sectors. You'll hear from the leads of the three major areas of work within the program: Paul Edwards from DairyNZ, Richard McCall from the Meat Industry Association, and Jim Ingalls from Beef and Lamb New Zealand, as they take us through what the program aims to achieve, the science and systems behind it, and what this could mean for dairy farmers, including how you can get involved. Let's get into it. Let's start with quick intros. Tell us about yourselves. We will start with Richard McColl.
SPEAKER_03Good morning. I'm Richard McColl from the Meat Industry Association. I've been with the Meat Industry Association since 2008 in various capacities and innovation roles, technical, more latterly involved with the dairy beef space. Prior to working for the Meat Industry Association, I had a stint at AFCO and about a 17, 18 year stint with the Alliance Group out of Invercargle.
SPEAKER_00On the chain, Richard?
SPEAKER_03No, no. I've got an accounting degree and an MBA, so I was on the commercial side.
SPEAKER_00Oh, very good. Thank you. Paul.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I'm a senior scientist specializing in farm systems with Deren Z based down in our LinkedIn office. I've been with DNZ for I think it might be 16 years now, and I've worked on lots of different projects over that time.
SPEAKER_00And Jim.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, thanks, Jack. On the principal strategy and programs at Beef and Lamb.
SPEAKER_00It's a new fancy title.
SPEAKER_01It is. Yeah, I'm just getting used to saying that one. I spend most of my time helping put programs together at our end and get them underway, which predominantly means taking other people's good ideas and trying to turn them into something that's actually providing good work.
SPEAKER_00What's your background, Jim, before this role?
About the Dairy Beef Opportunities Programme
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so I've been with Beef and Lamb for a couple of years and prior to that, farming and um commercial corporate farming background jack.
SPEAKER_00All right, Paul, can you start us off with an overview of the Dairy Beef Opportunities Program?
SPEAKER_02I guess first off, you may hear us refer to it as DBO for short. So, you know, in the future you might see references to the program and we do shorten it's DBO. So it's a joint initiative between the dairy and beef industries and the government of New Zealand to enhance our dairy beef sector ultimately. And that's through creating new revenue opportunities for farmers, strengthening the efficiency and sustainability of the wider livestock sector, so both dairy and beef. The program is funded for four years and was developed by DairyNZ, Beef and Lamb New Zealand, the Meat Industry Association, and the Dairy Companies Association of New Zealand. And really we're trying to focus on practical New Zealand-specific solutions, because I guess that's quite a key piece here. We are a bit different to the rest of the world.
SPEAKER_00Can you expand on that just a little?
SPEAKER_02I guess ultimately I think it stems from the relative balance between the size of the dairy and beef sectors in New Zealand, which in other countries is much more kind of even, whereas in New Zealand the size of the dairy sector is quite large. So yeah, trying to fit solutions that can work for us and ultimately enhance the integration between the sectors and help with both dairy and beef sectors to be more internationally competitive in doing so. I guess continuing that that overview, there is three pillars as you've kind of alluded to. I'm not gonna I'll leave it to the others to kind of elaborate on them in more detail, but just at a very high level, the the first is about maximizing efficiency gains via genetics and systems for rares and finishes. The second is about increasing the proportion of calves born on dairy farms that are going to be suited to go onto beef production. And the third is about developing new products and value chains for those beef products.
SPEAKER_00All right, Richard, there have been other dairy beef initiatives across the sector over time. What sets this program apart from those?
Genetics That Lift The Ceiling
SPEAKER_03A number of factors. Timing is one thing. I think there's a an understanding of a shared reputational risk and opportunity and the opportunity to come together across the sector to develop a solution at scale and the length of the investment, recognizing the full value chain. I think there's an understanding that no one sector can effectively solve this issue and create the opportunities by themselves. So the only way it's going to work is if we collaborate between ourselves and the dairy sector. So it gives us critical mass to go to the government, to get their support, to go to the farming community and the processes and that. And as I said right from the outset, I think there's a timing issue. I think the timing's right to do this, and I think that's recognized by everyone. And there's a, you know, a commitment now from essentially the leaders of all of the sectors that we need to do something and we need to do it collectively.
SPEAKER_00Jim, a lot of this work starts with improving genetics and farm systems. Why is that such a critical focus for the program?
SPEAKER_01Look, uh yeah, you could argue that it all starts at mating. It's that mating decision. That's where the start of the animal's life. And to Richard's point, a great example of why this is a beef and dairy decision that um, you know, a practical example of collaboration. So genetics lifts the ceiling. We often talk about it lifting the ceiling. And that means that everything else we do from there on has the most chance of success. We've done a lot of work over the last decade or so to get ourselves in the position where, you know, we've shown that there are genetics out there that can provide everything that um dairy and beef farmers need in the same animal or the same genetic package. Short gestation, moderate carving, good growth rates. We can have our cake and eat it too. It's absolutely not specific to a breed. And there's no one best bull or best breed for every situation. But we know we can make it a lot easier for dairy farmers to find the right animals or the right size. And then we know that there's work that the industry has to do for dairy farmers and beef farmers to be able to get the most value from that decision. All of these things kind of roll into we've got to make life easy and practical, and we know that there are areas that the industry can help with it.
SPEAKER_00It sounds similar to, you know, improving the genetics of our dairy cows and then, you know, operating a farm system, rearing them appropriately to maximize the benefit of those genetics. So similar thing for our dairy beef as well.
SPEAKER_01And important to note that, you know, we're not trying to interfere with milk production at any point in this process. Milk production's key to farm profit at GDP. We really want to make sure that that's just going the right way. This is about getting that extra slice of cake on the side tidally without interfering.
How To Find The Right Bulls
SPEAKER_00Jim, you've talked about how important the genetics part is, the selection of the right bull. How do we know which bulls? You said there's bulls there. Talk to us more about that. How we have our cake and eat it too. Yeah, how do you know?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. The great mystery of lining up genetics and and making life easy. So a really critical piece of infrastructure that we've got is the dairy beef progeny test. We've had a couple of phases of it over the last decade, doing some of the groundwork that we needed to prove how beef breeding values work in dairy beef animals, and trying to start identifying good bulls that we can bring to market. This new phase that we're going into now, we've got a much more national spread of progeny test host sites. And I just really want to give a big thanks to our hosts. They're fantastic teams to work with, and we absolutely rely on them. They're great. But that progeny test is that piece of that link so that we can work out where those good genetics are, how animals compare to each other, and start to make that a bit easier. Over time, we're trying to link that progeny test in with more data. We're creating linkage with international genetic evaluations. People run progeny tests in other countries, and we rely on a lot of international in and out of beef genetics. So making sure that we've got links with people who are doing a good job of recording dairy, beef animals is really important. This one more thing that we're looking for more people to work with who are doing that.
SPEAKER_00So if they want to get involved, they can reach out to their beef and lamb extension manager or somewhere else, you directly.
SPEAKER_01By all means. Yeah. Anyone with one of our badges, and you'll absolutely find your way to the right people.
SPEAKER_00Jim, there's a perception that beef on dairy isn't good or isn't as reliable for beef farmers. How would you respond to that?
Smarter Mating Plans
SPEAKER_01You know, we've got a long history of dairy beef and beef on dairy in New Zealand, and you know, we've got, you know, the better part of a million animals being reared for that now. A big portion of which are Frisian bulls, you know, nearly two-thirds, say, and a good third that's beef on dairy. Those animals, you know, there's been some variability in those animals over time, depending what who their size have been. But yeah, we've we reckon it's a big question. We've set up a uh demonstration on farm research in Pokawa and Hawke's Bay, putting elite beef on dairy genetics animals up against um beef beef animals so that we can get some kind of read on how they go and start to deal with some of those questions because it's not just about how good the genetics are, it's also about how I deal with an animal that comes to me at 100 kilos instead of, you know, 200 kilos off mum out of the hills. So those things are kind of intertwined.
SPEAKER_00Paul, you mentioned looking to increase the number of calves that go into beef production. How is the program working towards that?
SPEAKER_02So we've got two pieces within Pillar Two that helped with that. The first kind of really builds on what Jim's just alluded to there. And it's more about then how you use those different semen products and types and when you use them in a mating to kind of construct an overall plan that leads to everyone achieving the outcomes that they're after. So from a dairy farmer's perspective, that it's still optimal from a milk production kind of perspective, but also that we're really considering the quality of the other animals that we might be producing there from a beef perspective. So the work they'll be co-developing with farmers and and breeding companies, for example, on best ways of doing that.
SPEAKER_00Because it can get quite complicated, right?
SPEAKER_02I think this kind of speaks to one of Richard's points about the timing, is right. You know, we are seeing the rapid adoption of wearables and the extension of mating periods. We're up to probably, well, yeah, over a third of farms being a full 10-week of A B. Farmers are already having to make these decisions now as to what semen to be using. So it's really helping them with that decision-making process so they can kind of understand the implications of their choices.
SPEAKER_00Well, that's one way. What's the other?
SPEAKER_02And then the other piece of work there we've got is relating to extended lactations and really testing the viability of those kind of systems. Specifically, the system we're looking at is a 24-month carving interval with half the herd carving each spring. And so it's quite a novel and quite an out there idea that we've got some work that we can talk about later, perhaps about some of the detail. But really, the driver there is by reducing those numbers of calves that get born each year, there's about a 60% reduction in non-replacement calves, which just really frees up the attention for the dairy farmer to focus on creating high value, both dairy replacements, but also animal search for dairy beef.
SPEAKER_00Richard, the third pillar of the program looks at developing new products. That's exciting. I'd love to hear about that. Tell us what that involves.
SPEAKER_03A number of things that we're looking at. So firstly, we're looking at the developing new classes of dairy beef, especially from earlier finishing animals. Rose veal is an example and an obvious example, but it won't potentially be the only one that we look at.
SPEAKER_00Can you explain what rose veal is?
SPEAKER_03Traditionally, it's a eight, nine-month-old calf that's been raised combination grass-fed and milk-fed. It's very much the European veal model, if you like. But the modern veal rather than Yes, it is not a white veal, it's a rose veal. So it's gone away from that. And there's lots of good reasons that ethical reasons that we've gone away from that and into a rose veal. So looking at opportunities for potentially rose veal, but not exclusively looking at developing products from heifers. We talk about a single-wintered animal. So, you know, 16 to 18 month-old animal, looking to see what options we have available that fit the UE sort of our unique farming practices.
SPEAKER_00The single-winted animal, that makes a lot of sense to a beef farmer, but might be a new concept for dairy farmers. What does that mean?
SPEAKER_03Basically, it's an animal that only sort of goes through one winter. So if you think at the moment animals are born in the spring, they go through a winter and then the following winter, and then we would be looking to process in through that spring, and that next summer, I guess, would be the timing of that, depending on the class of animal and what have you. So you'd look if you're looking at 18 months, if they're born in sort of September, you'd be looking at what January, February, the following, you know, two years away or 18 months away. Apologies here. We're also looking at developing new novel products. Obviously, the you're still going to get your primal cuts, but if you think about your third and fourth quarter cuts, how we can look to lift them up the value chain and get better value for them. You know, one example in its infancy might be beef bacon as an example. Looking to explore new market opportunities as well. Obviously, New Zealand beef markets, we've got some traditional beef markets, but we're looking to see what other opportunities are out there for New Zealand. You know, recognizing that we're an island in the South Pacific, we're a long way away from the traditional veal markets. So, you know, is there markets closer in Southeast Asia is an obvious one that we, you know, these products would fit into given the demand for you know high-value protein, looking to exploit also the unique quality attributes of these animals. You know, is there something that within them that we can take to market with them? And also the carbon footprint of dairy beef is significantly lower, 30 to 40% lower than a normal beef animal, and that has an attraction to a number of customers out there, both existing and new customers. And overlaying all of this will be looking to exploit the New Zealand's reputation for producing high-quality, ethically produced grass-fed beef.
Early Momentum And On-Farm Results
SPEAKER_00Well, it's all still very early days. You know, the program really only launched a couple of months ago. But are there any early insights or observations you can share? This is a free-for-all.
SPEAKER_03I guess I'll I might go first on that. For what I've seen, there's been a high level of engagement. You know, we're entering a number of pilots that are a lot further advanced than perhaps what we initially anticipated if we go back to when we were developing the program, you know, sort of 12, 18 months ago. I think in some areas, certainly in the pillar three area, we're a lot further advanced than where we thought to be, which is quite exciting really, because you know, it gives us an opportunity to get runs on the board earlier, demonstrate the successes to our stakeholders.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and create the uh kind of a pull as well.
SPEAKER_03Well, it does create a bit of momentum as well, which is uh exciting to see.
SPEAKER_00And Jim, I know you're itching to speak about the engagement you've seen.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, I was just gonna say the same thing, Jack. Just a huge level of engagement. We've got um full-inboxes and we've got people in touch all the time. It's fantastic. I mean, the the project is built on you know farmer input and farmer feedback, and we need that the whole way. So, I mean, this is it's fantastic. We need it and appreciate it.
SPEAKER_02From a Pillar Home perspective, I guess the main thing that we've been working on since June, actually, we've got a sort of a head start on on this activity just because of course the seasonal nature of our systems. Darren said Scott Farm, we've got an experiment running with uh four different farmwits. Two of them are, I guess, a standard kind of system that would run at Scott Farm, 12-month carving interval. And then two of them have that 24-month carving interfacing of the herd carving each year. Difference between the two being one's Frisian, one's Jersey. And yeah, we've built up a little bit of experience there over the last couple of years and how that system's been performing, and and this is just a kind of an evolution of that. Yeah, I I think we've been getting really encouraging results so far. Like certainly when presenting this at a concept a couple of years ago of of a 24-month carving interval, you know, like the sort of sniggers in the room were audible, right? And look, count me amongst them, right? Like it was pretty out there idea. And it's just been fascinating to see how well the cows, by and large, not every single one, but by and large, how well the cows have responded and fitted into that system. And then it's still a very novel system. So uh a couple of years of data is takes a while to build confidence, and that's what we're really trying to do here.
SPEAKER_00Paul, you talk about it being novel, but you also mentioned sniggers. I recall when I first started at DariNZ hearing about extended lactation trials at Scott Farm, maybe under Eric Colver. What's changed between am I making it up, but between then and now?
SPEAKER_02I guess what differs to previous extended lactation work is this is actually genuine farm systems work. All their previous work was done in a what we'd call a component experiment. So you're kind of like you're controlling everything but the thing you're testing, and it's not a true steady-state system. And that's what these farmers are there to do is to represent an actual farm and how that might play out over a number of consecutive seasons, right? So yeah, to date we've been getting similar levels of productivity and and profitability between the systems, as I said, still a long way to go to build confidence from ourselves as well as from farmers into how this might play. And then look, fully acknowledging this is not a system that would suit every farm when you have half the herd carving each year and uh in that 24-month carving until you're you're milking half cows through the winter, and some farms won't suit that, particularly driven by a pasture growth curve, right? So this is just a tool in the toolbox amongst a whole lot of other things, but quite an interesting one for some people.
SPEAKER_00Do you think the genetics of our animals has changed in that time? I'm thinking about more cows being well adapted to once a day might work for extended lactation as well.
How To Get Involved
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. It's you know, genetics is a wonderful thing in the sense that it compounds year after year, right? So yeah, clearly the kind of cow that we've got today is vastly different from the last time there was any sort of major extended lactation work done almost 20 years ago now. And look, that's actually part of the program going forward is we've got we'll investigate whether there is opportunity to be looking at animals that are suited to extended lactation. So right now we've just used run-of-the-mill animals to go into this. But there's logical reasons why you could expect an animal surge that system may have some different attributes to what we have been selecting for. And so really the purpose of that is just to identify the the size of the opportunity should this system show merit to kind of continue with.
SPEAKER_00For farmers listening who are interested in dairy beef and want to know how they can get involved in the program, what can we tell them? And I want to go back to you, Jim, because I know there's things already happening. There's already events.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, the message is just get in touch any way you like. But I mean, it's to any of us, it's to our teams nationally, um at DairyNZ or Beef and Lamb, just get in touch. I understand we've got a uh expression of interest form on the Dairy NZ website.
SPEAKER_00Yes, by the time this goes to air, yes, there will be on the Dairy Beef Opportunities page. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And keeping an eye out for events around the place. So they'll be on our websites, they're on our the newsletters that we send out from both organizations. If you're curious about what's happening, get along to those events. We love having people there. We love the feedback that you give, and we really are looking for that. We're looking for feedback and guidance on how to approach some of these sort of trickier issues.
SPEAKER_00There's a lot of events going on, and it's amazing to see the beef and lamb regional teams and the DairyNZ regional teams working together on them.
SPEAKER_01It's just great to have it working well.
SPEAKER_00That's on the events side. Paul, tell us about you know farmer involvement in the pillar two.
SPEAKER_02We've actually already had our first kind of two pieces of engagement really in pillar two. First, we did hold a workshop with some with farmers and sector stakeholders around that mating plan kind of piece of work that I alluded to earlier. I guess we see that there's a gap in helping farmers make decisions in that space, but really trying to frame up exactly what we can do to help fill that knowledge gap. Yes, feel free to reach out if you have a particular passion or interest in that topic. And then the second piece, starting to build a community of interest around extended lactation. So you may have seen over the last couple of years, from a slightly different perspective, more a people-focused one, we have been doing some work in the space and actually have a pile of farm that's gone on to adopt this system at farm scale. But yes, looking to build a community of interest there of people that want to know more and learn more about extended lactation. We've got a couple that have sort of indicated they're interested in giving it a go as well. But keep an eye out for communications there. Sign up to some email updates basically of work that we're doing in the space, whether it be updates from or insights coming out of that research experiment, uh you know, working with farms that are looking to adopt the system.
SPEAKER_00And Richard, beef bacon sounds like something that all of us would like to get involved in. Is that possible?
SPEAKER_03Not just. Yet, but um maybe if you come to field days, we might be able to give you um a flavour of a couple of options that we're looking at. So there's a teaser there somewhere.
Calf Rearers And What Support Looks Like
SPEAKER_00Nice. Thank you. All right. We've talked about the dairy farmers breeding the calves, we've talked about the beef farmers finishing them, and we've talked about you know what happens after we've finished them. We have not talked about calf rearers. Paul, do you want to talk about how calf rearers have been involved so far?
SPEAKER_02I think that's a Jim question probably for Jim, you better tell us. For the best explanation.
SPEAKER_01Thanks, Jack. Yeah, calf rearing has been one of the big black holes of knowledge in our industry that we really want to get behind. Our individual organizations haven't necessarily represented calf rearing per se. And this is one of the reasons we need to work together to do a better job of that. One of the first things that we've done is to get a survey out to calf rearers and just to try and fill some of the gaps in our knowledge. And we've had a fantastic response. We've had hundreds of responses. Just really want to thank everyone for taking the time to get involved in that because it gives us a real starting point. We've also got communities of practice setting up around calf rearing. Just a couple to start with, just making sure that we're getting really clear on the questions that we need to answer and how we go about that. And what are the things as an industry that we can really do to help calf rearers? It's a tough industry. We recognize that, and we need to do everything we can to help.
Episode Summary
SPEAKER_00There is a lot in there, and we've only had time for a light touch today. What excites me is that all parts of the sector are coming together in this program to tackle a long-standing challenge and an opportunity. It's a genuine partnership bringing dairy, beef, calf rearers, processors, and government together around a shared goal of doing more with the calves that are already born into our systems. The Dairy Beef Opportunities program is about creating options that make sense for farmers, backed by science, practical system changes, and clearer pathways through the value chain. It's long-term work, but it's intentional and it's designed to deliver better outcomes for farmers and the wider sector. Thanks to Paul, Jim and Richard for sharing how this work is coming together and thanks to you for tuning in. You can learn more about the Dairy Beef Opportunities program, progress or get involved at dairynz.co.nz forward slash dbo. Thanks for listening and we'll catch you next time. Matiwa. If you'd like to get connected with DairyNZ's latest advice, research, tools, and resources, whether it's reading, scrolling, listening, or in person, you can visit dairynz.co.nz forward slash get connected, and don't forget to hit follow to keep up to date with our latest episodes. As always, if you have any feedback on this podcast or have some ideas for future topics or guests, please email us at talkingdairy at dairynz.co.nz. Thanks for listening and we'll catch you next time on Talking Dairy.