In 10: What’s next for you on farm and what’s stopping you?

Are you thinking about what’s next for you or your farm business? 

Planning the next stage in dairy farming is unique to you. Honest conversations and the right tools can bring clarity and arm you with the confidence to move forward. 

In this episode, high-performance coach and People Expo 2026 headline speaker James Laughlin shares a preview of what he’ll cover at this year’s events. He talks about what can hold us back, how to work through it, and how high-performance leadership can help transform your life and business.

He also touches on what holds us back and practical ways to manage this – a snapshot of what he’ll be sharing at the event.

If you’re a farm owner, farm manager, contract milker, sharemilker or equity partner, join us at People Expo to explore your next stage and how to get there.

Find out more and register here.

 People Expo 2026 locations and dates:

• Palmerston North - Tuesday 16 June, 10.30am-2.30pm
• Te Awamutu - Thursday 18 June, 10.30am-2.30pm
• Invercargill - Tuesday 30 June, 12.00pm-4.00pm
• Dunsandel - Thursday 2 July, 12.00pm-4.00pm

Hosted by DairyNZ and Dairy Women's Network

Find out more about James Laughlin

Check out to James’ podcast – Habits of High Performers

Have feedback or ideas for future episodes? Email us at talkingdairy@dairynz.co.nz

Connect with DairyNZ

Stay up to date with advice, latest research, tools and resources. Read, browse, scroll, listen, or be there in person. Visit dairynz.co.nz/get-connected 

Transcript

Introduction

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Kiora and welcome to Talking Dairy. I'm your host Jack McGowan from DairyNZ. People Expo is back, coming to a region near you in late June and early July. And this year the events are all about what's next for you on farm. Whether you're a farm owner thinking about succession or an emerging leader ready to step up, this is your chance to find out how you can make confident decisions about your future, whatever that looks like. Hosted by DairyNZ and Dairy Women's Network, the People Expo events bring together respected farmers and inspiring speakers who understand the realities of leading in today's dairy industry. You'll hear honest stories, learn practical strategies, and explore what success looks like for you. One of those inspiring speakers is James Lochlin, author of the best-selling book and chart-topping podcast Habits of High Performers. James is a leading expert in high performance leadership and personal development and is trusted by leaders and teams at the top level. James, it's wonderful to have you with us.

SPEAKER_01 1:04

Jack, thank you so much for having me. It's great to connect.

SPEAKER_00 1:07

Yes. All right. So for anyone who hasn't come across your work yet, can you give us a quick version of your story? Who are you?

SPEAKER_01 1:15

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I came here 21 years ago to New Zealand, still working on the accent, clearly, not doing well on that.

SPEAKER_00 1:21

Yeah, where'd you come from?

SPEAKER_01 1:23

Northern Ireland. And I came down as a young, I was like 19, and my mission was to help a school here in New Zealand become the first world champions in drumming. So I was a world champion drummer, and that was my initial mission. So I came down. It took eight years, but in the end, they did become the first and only world champions from New Zealand. Then I got interested, what else could I do and who else could I help? So local sports teams started connecting. So with Canterbury, Rugby, a few of the all blacks, realized that the skill set was applicable to help them achieve high performance as well. And then very organically, that started uh feeding into small businesses, large corporates, the army, prime ministers, and beyond. Like so I've worked with all sorts.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

Okay. And then what drew you to People Expo 2026?

SPEAKER_01 2:09

Well, you know what? I grew up in a rural part of Northern Ireland. And so I was all around dairy growing up from a very young age. A lot of my friends and clients are strongly involved in the dairy sector. Uh done a little bit of work in that sector with uh lots of one-on-one coaching with people that are in the field and making it work and running farms. And it's not an easy task. So when DairyNZ reached out, I thought it's a hell yes from me. I'd be honored to come along.

SPEAKER_00 2:33

How awesome.

Defining your version of success

SPEAKER_00 2:34

All right. So what will you be covering on the day? And well, how are you involved in the events?

SPEAKER_01 2:39

Yeah, absolutely. So can't wait to travel all around the country to a region near the listener. And there's a few different things. So the first thing I'm going to talk about early in the piece is uh defining what success looks like and everyone's own version of success. Most people struggle to actually get clear on what they want. Can I share a quick story on that front? Please do. So had a young player come to me and say, James, could you be my coach? Like one-to-one mindset and leadership. I said, Yeah, I could. What do you want? He said, Um, I says, mate, I'll see you next week. And he says, What do you mean? I says, You don't know what you want. I'll see you next week. He says, I'm so confused. I said, I know you are. That's why I'll see you next week. When we start with um or uh or I think we don't really know what we want. So he came back the next week. I says, What do you really want? He says, to be a great all black. I was like, awesome. Why do you want it? Second question. Um well, my granddad was, and like I'd like to be part of that. I says, How much are you willing to suffer to get that outcome? He says, James, I don't want to suffer at all. Now, look, all three of those questions are the same questions I'm going to be asking people at DairyNZ. What does success look like? Why do you want it? And how much are you willing to sacrifice or suffer to get there? In the end, he says, I don't really want to suffer. And I says, Okay, here's a number for you. And I wrote down this number and I says, read it out, please. Plus 614. I said, James, what is this? I says, it's the head coach of the wallabies number. I hear they're hiring. You're never going to make the all blacks if you're not willing to suffer, my friend. But the all the wallabies will hire you for sure.

SPEAKER_00 4:16

How rude. Cheeky. I know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:18

It's got to be cheeky. But in the end, he made the all blacks, so I was delighted.

SPEAKER_00 4:21

Yeah, we're not always encouraged to um know what we want as kids anyway. Our generation. You know, we're not supposed to want much.

SPEAKER_01 4:29

100%. Again, we we should. We should want for more and be proud of what we want. And so that's the first thing we'll cover. Second thing we'll cover is I'm going to do a workshop for farm owners and spend a bit of time intimately with them, helping them look at what's next and why. And then the last thing I'm going to do, I'm going to do a keynote on the habits of high performers. And for those that come along, I might even bring a few signed copies of my book and give some away for those that get engaged in those sessions.

SPEAKER_00 4:52

Nice teaser. Yeah.

Stepping up, stepping back - both take courage

SPEAKER_00 4:54

Okay. So the theme of the expo is stepping up or stepping back. Both of those are potentially big changes for people. From your perspective, how do they differ, if at all?

SPEAKER_01 5:05

Yeah, well, look, both of them require courage. And I think they're quite similar. You know, stepping up requires courage or stepping into the unknown, but also stepping back. That's a lot of people are afraid of stepping back. And what does that mean? And I'm built to create and build and run and manage. And what will I do? And so I think both require courage. But over the years, I've spent a long time really understanding the greatest leaders of all time. So Mandela, I would say, is somebody I've researched for about 20 years. And the one thing that he said, you know, courage is to feel fear, but to do it anyway. And he did that in abundance. So I'm going to challenge everyone that's there to, you know, feel the fear, but do the thing anyway. Don't sit in indecision.

What holds people back

SPEAKER_00 5:45

I was going to say, what is it that holds people back? Is it the fear and indecision?

SPEAKER_01 5:51

Yeah, well, all humans, like I think we need to remember we are all driven by fear. And it's often the fear of letting others down, the fear of failure. And weirdly, the fear of success. And I see that you're laughing. I tell you, I see this in the agri sector a lot. I've been working one-to-one with a guy for a long time in the agri sector. He owns multiple farms. And he says, James, the more success I get, the more critique and naysayers and negative feedback I get from people in my own community. They're like, you're not one of us anymore, and you're not on the tools, and you're, you know, what are you doing? Stepping back. And I think, well, that's tough. So it requires courage to step into that. And so for both parties, you know, don't let the fear stop

Using values to guide your decisions

SPEAKER_01 6:35

you.

SPEAKER_00 6:35

Yeah. What do people get wrong when they sort of try and step up?

SPEAKER_01 6:40

Yeah, I think just really not knowing what their values are. I think if you're wishy-washy with your values, I mean you'll make decisions you're not proud of. So I think when it comes down to making decisions and having priorities and values, take your time to get clear on those. For those that are in that workshop, we're going to take our time to actually look at that. But values really make the vision and understanding what a value is to you. So for me, you know, curiosity, hence I run a podcast. And I'm sure you're the same. You're very curious.

SPEAKER_00 7:09

Yes. That's why I was like, yes, I want to keep doing this.

SPEAKER_01 7:12

There you go, right? Because you get to learn and connect. And I love that. Abundance is another value for me. So like I believe that there's room for everyone to succeed and everyone can do well. And the last one for me is kindness. Like, can we win, have great results, and still be kind? Well, the greatest teams I've ever coached have proved to me that it's possible. So I think having values will help you as you step up.

SPEAKER_00 7:38

Okay. So

Heading home with confidence

SPEAKER_00 7:40

a number of opportunities at the expo for farmers to engage with you. When they head back to the farm afterwards, what do you want them to be thinking or doing differently?

SPEAKER_01 7:50

Yeah, think about what's possible. I think it's really easy in this world to get focused on the negative, get focused on the lack, get focused on Donald Trump and get focused on oil and like all of those things are happening. But I would love them to walk away from the expo and go, hey, I'm going to control my controllables. I'm super excited about what's possible. I'm going to do the work. So that's really what I'd love them to do.

SPEAKER_00 8:14

I want to circle back, maybe because I'm interested, in that the idea that fear is one of the things that stops us from kind of stepping back or stepping up.

Understanding fear and moving through it

SPEAKER_00 8:25

Where is that fear coming from and how do you break through it?

SPEAKER_01 8:30

Yeah, great question. So fear as an acronym, false evidence that appears real. It appears to be real, but it's not. But it's it's false evidence. So fear, if we go back to and we look at the psychological component, you look at the biology, you've got an amygdala, it's a tiny peanut-shaped organ here in the brain. And that essentially is your fear sensor. And it's designed to keep us alive. It's a great thing. You know, you're stepping out on the road and a car is flying by, you step back. You know, if you're on the farm and something's happening and an animal's running at you or a tractor's out of control, that amygdala kicks in. Boom. Fight, flight, freeze, it helps you. However, for things like making life decisions, big career transitions, that amygdala can be your biggest enemy because it's full of self-doubt and it really highlights the possible catastrophes.

SPEAKER_00 9:20

Yeah, mine's quite good at that. Is it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:23

Yeah. What comes up for you when you think of fear? What's something that the amygdala kicks in for you?

SPEAKER_00 9:28

Oh, more recently I say yes to things because I'm like, well, they're asking me to do it because they think I can. But there's a part of me that's like, oh, I I think I'm gonna fail. Yes. I'm gonna disappoint them.

SPEAKER_01 9:40

Okay. So right away your amygdala's kicking in, going, Oh, I don't know if I can do this. Yeah. What did you do to go and do the thing anyway? What made the difference for you to say yes and go and perform?

SPEAKER_00 9:50

Well, I said yes and then it was too late.

SPEAKER_01 9:54

Brilliant.

SPEAKER_00 9:54

No, no. Preparation is what got me through it and a good outcome in the end.

SPEAKER_01 10:00

Brilliant. The fact that you said yes, though, when you were uncomfortable is important. And I think that often some of us can shy away from discomfort. I get shying away from pain. Nobody likes pain. But shying away from discomfort, I mean, you're just setting yourself up for decay. You're not setting yourself up for growth. So when you're going, ooh, stepping on that stage and speaking in front of people, no way. That's when you have to say yes. That's your trigger.

SPEAKER_00 10:23

Funnily enough, that was it.

SPEAKER_01 10:25

Was it really? Yeah. Awesome. Can I tell you something? The biggest fear of all humans, speaking on a stage and being humiliated, right? Second fear, death. It's ahead of death. The third fear, stepping on stage, being humiliated, and dying on stage.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

I mean, if you're humiliated on stage, maybe, maybe death is like something you want at that point. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:53

I love it. Yeah, so that's fear, right? And we the only way to actually battle it is to step forward and face it. And the thing I always work on with clients is self-talk. What are you saying? What's happening in behind that amygdala? What are you feeding it? You know, often it's I'm not enough. I'm scared. I'm gonna screw up. People might laugh. Well, that's all fine, but can you just rewire that? Hey, I am good enough. I've spoken to other humans before in my life. I can do this. People need to hear the message. And if they can apply that to their career transition, they can apply that to stepping back or stepping up. Hey, it is the right time. And I can do this, and there will be great success. And it allows the fear

A simple tool to calm the mind

SPEAKER_01 11:32

to cool down. And of course, as you know, Jack, physiological changes can really help. So I don't love flying. I fly a lot and I don't love it. So when the turbulence kicks in, guess what? My amygdala goes haywire. My pams are sweaty in seconds, heart rate's up. And I'm sure farmers would feel that. And so what I would suggest in that moment is breath, right? So breath work. There's all these fancy four, seven, eight box breathing. Someone taught me this, it's super simple. And this will allow your amygdala to bugger off and you to make clear decisions. It's called smell the pizza, right? So you've got this beautiful, steaming hot, amazing pizza you're about to eat, but you want to smell it first. So you in through your nose, you hold it, but it's really hot and you want to eat it. You have to blow and cool it down. Right? Super simple, super silly.

SPEAKER_00 12:24

Oh, my son would much rather do that than count. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:28

Most of us would, right? Lose track of counting after four. So that alone, as long as you make your exhale, you're blowing the pizza longer than your inhale, it allows your heart rate to cool down. It drops, tells your amygdala you're safe. And it just allows you to have more clarity and make better decisions. So hopefully little tools like that that I might share at Expo will be helpful.

Shaping your next chapter

SPEAKER_00 12:49

Cool. We're talking in this moment about fear in the moment. There's an aspect of stepping back, or maybe stepping up as well, but stepping back, which is about maybe not such immediate fear, but a change in who you see yourself as. Can you tell me more about that? How people work through that?

SPEAKER_01 13:09

Self-perception is everything, what we identify as. So if you identify yourself as a really hard worker, you identify with someone who loves, you know, the 60 to 80 hour week, and that's what hard work is. And well, the thought of stepping back, you're literally going against your self-perception and your identity. It's going to be massive resistance. So when we are doing these big transformations, it's important to reshape your identity and go, how can I still be industrious in a different way? Where can I apply my skills and enjoy doing it in a different way and managing others or handing responsibilities over? And so to me, it takes time, reflection, which often busy farm owners don't have time to sit and reflect very often. But you look at the greatest players of all time, you know, I coach in PGA, coach in rugby, and all of them that do the best, they're the ones that sit down every day and ask three questions. What went well today? What didn't go so well today, and what would 1% better look like tomorrow? Three simple questions. But if I'm working with them and I want them to get the best out of shaping their future, shaping the changes about to come, they need to be answering those often so they know who they are and where they're headed. So I'm going to challenge the person listening right now to think about identity and what they identify as in the next phase, the next chapter of their career.

SPEAKER_00 14:35

Okay. So for farmers that can't come to the expo, but obviously you've got a lot of good stuff to share and they've liked listening to you, what episode of Habits for Hike Performers would you suggest they go listen to?

SPEAKER_01 14:50

Oh my goodness, that's a really tricky question. There's like 500 episodes, right?

SPEAKER_00 14:55

I mean, I could see three out of the last seven that I was like, yes. Oh, that's cool.

SPEAKER_01 15:00

Yeah. Amazing. Well, I guess the first thing I'd suggest they do, because I I love supporting local. If they go to any bookstore in New Zealand or any airport store, they can grab my book, Habits of High Performers, and support a local store. But with the podcast, I'd say just go and find a topic on there, scroll through Habits of Hyperformers, and that's the one for me.

SPEAKER_00 15:20

One that jumps out. Yeah. Cool.

Episode summary

SPEAKER_00 15:23

All right, well, that's it for this episode of Talking Dairy in 10. James, thanks for joining us. James is going to be joined at People Expo by Dairy Australia's farm business lead, Greg Duncan. Greg works nationally with partners and farmers to build stronger, more resilient businesses. And for the People Expo, he will host a panel of leading local farmers who will share their stories of succession and progression, the rationale behind their decisions, and the leadership those decisions required. The People Expo events are happening in Palmerston North, Tiawamudu, Dunsandal, and Invercago, and they're free to attend. Lunch is even provided, but you do need to register. So head to the DairyNZ website, search People Expo 2026 and secure your spot. Thanks for listening and we'll catch you next time. Matewa. If you'd like to get connected with DairyNZ's latest advice, research, tools, and resources, whether it's reading, scrolling, listening, or in person, you can visit DariNZ.co.nz forward slash get-connected. And don't forget to hit follow to keep up to date with our latest episodes. As always, if you have any feedback on this podcast or have some ideas for future topics or guests, please email us at talkingdairy at dairynz.co.nz. Thanks for listening and we'll catch you next time on Talking Dairy.