What We Carried Together - A Conversation with My Sister Kebrina Richards

Some stories don't belong to one person. They belong to a family and to the different ways each of us learned to carry them.

In this episode, I sit down with my youngest sister, Kebrina Richards, for a conversation I have wanted to have on the record for a long time. I came to the United States America at almost 13, carrying everything I had ever known. Kebrina and her twin sister were born into the life I wanted in the USA.

We talk about what doesn't usually get said out loud; what it means to inherit a story you didn't live, the quiet weight of being a second mother before you knew the word for it, growing up between two cultures and two sets of expectations, and what we have carried, all these years, for each other.

Some of us carried the sacrifice. Some of us became the proof that it was worth it. Both experiences are real and deserve to be named...The parts we lived, the parts we didn't fully understand until now, and the parts we are still learning to name.

This conversation is also a glimpse into my forthcoming memoir: Carrying the Island: Migration, Identity, and the Making of a Leader. 

If you have ever grown up in an immigrant family, carried expectations you didn't choose, or realized your story looks different from the ones that came before you, this one will stay with you.

© 2025 Tonya Richards. All rights reserved.

Restless Excellence™ is a trademark pending.

All original content produced are the intellectual property of Tonya Richards and may not be reproduced or presented as original work without prior written permission.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

This is Reflex Excellence, a podcast for people who care deeply, work hard, and are quietly asking themselves, is this sustainable? Antonio Richards, I created this space because of the tension between achievement and culture, the tension between being capable and being obtained, the option between the course of having too much. They aren't going to be political. They'll be reflective and they'll be honest. And therefore, people who don't want to lose themselves while building something that matters. Let's get into it. I want to start with a confession. When I recorded the latest episode about carrying, I kept thinking about this conversation. Because the person who probably has the most complicated relationship with everything I described is my baby sister. She didn't leave St. Vincent, she was born here in America. Which means she didn't carry the island the way that I did. She actually inherited it through me, through our mother, our grandmother, other sisters, through a household shaped by people who crossed an ocean before she ever took her first breath. I, Tanya, arrived in Brooklyn in February 1995, almost 13 years old. As a matter of fact, it was a week before my 13th birthday. And waiting in that apartment were two little girls, about two years old, toddlers, my baby sisters, Cabrina, and her twin Kiana. I had just crossed an ocean, and almost immediately I was helping to raise someone else. And I've always wondered, what does that feel like to grow up in the shadow of a migration story that isn't yours, but also completely is yours? Welcome to Restless Excellence. I'm Tanya Richards, and today I have Cabrina Richards, my youngest sister, one of the five daughters, born and raised American, Temple University graduate, Delaware Philadelphia woman, and the first person in my family to read my memoir from cover to cover. Welcome, Cabrina.

SPEAKER_01 3:45

Thank you. Finally, happy to be here.

SPEAKER_00 3:50

Thank you so much. Now, everything that I've said before, that's exactly why she's here as one of my guests on the Restless Excellence podcast. Do you want to just take a minute or so to introduce yourself in a few words that are yours, of course, not mine? Absolutely, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 4:12

I'm Cabrina, of course, youngest of five, as was noted, Tintachiana, first generation Caribbean American, but still got all the expectations, of course, and beat ins. Don't tell too much. I grew up American on paper, Caribbean in the house, and somewhere in between in real life. Born and bred in Brooklyn, transplanted to Philly and Delaware. I moved horrible, but I carry a story that started before me, shaped me, and sometimes tried to define me. And I've had to figure it out. What's mine, what's inherited, and what I'm rewriting. I'm figuring things out in real time like most people my age.

SPEAKER_00 5:00

Nice. I love that. So here's the context for the audience that's listening. Our mother has five daughters. The older girls, including myself, were born in St. Vincent in the Grenadines. We, the first three, migrated. Cabrina and her twin sister, Kiana, are the youngest, and they were born here in America. Which means from day one, Cabrina's starting point was a bit different. She didn't have an ocean crossing in her story. She didn't have a before and after. She was born into the after, or what I would like to call the after. So, Cabrina, what was it like growing up in a household where so much of the culture, the identity, the weight came from a place you'd never lived?

SPEAKER_01 6:01

I'd say it felt normal until I realized it wasn't. Inside the house, everything meant something as a Caribbean, how you speak, how you move, what you represent. There was pride but also pressure. Outside, I was just American on the streets. So you end up switching versions of yourself depending on where you are. And nobody tells you how to bring those versions together. You have to figure it out along the way.

SPEAKER_00 6:33

Okay. I really think that there's something that really doesn't get talked about enough. The American-born siblings of immigrants who absorb a culture sort of secondhand, if that makes sense. Who also grow up hearing about home without it being their home? Who also are Caribbean in the household and just like you said, American everywhere else. Did you ever feel caught between those two identities? And if so, can you expand on that a bit?

SPEAKER_01 7:08

No, absolutely. Yeah, I definitely felt caught in between two worlds. One being the food, the culture. I didn't know too much about it, as well as even today, I'm a very picky eater. I can't tolerate spice as much when everyone keeps talking about all these West Indian fabulous dishes that they've uh dreamt about they can't wait to have when they go back to another country or when they stop at rest in peace golden crust. Then that is like something I've missed. I've enjoyed the meals that I've had when I was growing up, but I personally can't cook it, so I don't touch that culture as much. And that's something I miss, and I strive to want to have for my future, for my children, for my nieces and nephews. So if they come to me and say, hey, I want a peace of home, I could give that. Outside of that, I've always been afraid to reveal too much and feel judged on the outside world or even at home. And one way that would be is in response to punishments. Punishments is definitely a taboo in America. It could be you being in jail, it could be discipline. People think punishments are different, which is what I referred to when I said beat-ins. But each kid is different. And me, I needed those beat-ins. Additionally, it would be responsibility, discipline, the accents, and heavy expectations. And I think what took me time to understand is I don't have to choose. I can define my own version and create a mix of that American and Caribbean ancestry. So it is a bit different from leaving the household and being accepted into a world and creating my own.

SPEAKER_00 9:01

Nice. No, I love that you said that and you were honest about the fact that you don't like jerk chicken because it has too many spices. Absolutely. Oh my goodness, that is too funny. So let me ask you this. Did you ever feel like the SVG story? For those of you who are not familiar with the acronym, St. Vincent and the Grenadines, is sometimes referred to as SVG. Now, the SVG story was my story or our other siblings or sisters' stories. And that took up a lot of space. Did you ever feel that way that it took up a lot of space? Like, for instance, the migration narrative was so central that your experience felt a bit quieter in comparison, or even less dramatic, even when it probably wasn't?

SPEAKER_01 9:56

That's a really good question. I would say definitely, absolutely, in some ways and some fashions. I would say sometimes my story also felt a little heavier because it wasn't the story that was the most prevalent or revealed. And I think that was something that required protection and quiet observation in the household to navigate that migration story that we all heard. Because at that age when you guys were, of course, migrating over here, I was just super young, Kiana was super young, and I had to be the observer as the child in a child's place. That's what Syndian does. A child stays in a child's place. And of course, you have to grapple with it as you age, which is why I didn't say I'm coming into myself. Because when your family has a powerful migration story, the struggles that come with it becomes the headline. Already just by being American born, so complaints of any kind were a waste due to the opportunity in front of us and the struggles everyone else had to overcome. But quiet doesn't mean easy, it just means different work.

SPEAKER_00 11:15

Yeah, no, that actually makes sense. I mean, the reason why I asked that question, and I think it's a real question, is because when you grow up in an immigrant family, the Origen story can become almost mythological, if that makes sense. Like it's like another world, something that's a fantasy that's made up. And if your story, like the American story, the American-born story, doesn't have a crossing, meaning a before and an after, it can sometimes feel like it doesn't count as much, even when it absolutely does. So I'm glad that you shared and expounded on that. Now, the other thing that I wanted to touch on in this conversation is with regards to us. We have this 10-year gap with regards to our age. So let's talk about us for a moment. You and I, the second of five, the fifth of the five girls. Now, when I arrived in America, you and your twin Keanu were just two, probably turning three, or maybe just turned two. I was almost 13, as I shared before, a week I came a week before my 13th birthday. And I myself was still a child, still sort of jet lagged from an ocean crossing, still figuring out what Brooklyn was and what it had to offer me at that time. And there you both were. So what do you actually remember of those early years? And I know again you were so young, but anything that comes to mind?

SPEAKER_01 13:20

I remember anything outside of that pacifier being sub and to dragging my teddy bear Phoenix along. But as we were growing, I'd say, our sisters were everything to us. It was fun. We admired every single one of you, especially you. You you were that mother-like figure. You gave us some discipline and direction in how to navigate this world because, of course, you were old and you had to face so many struggles and challenges to assimilate. We admired the spirit, but before everything that transpired with our parents, of course, while they were still together in the household, we felt free in those early years. It was seamless. It felt easier. So it was pretty it was pretty easy to move forward in that way. We didn't have those those thoughts in those early years.

SPEAKER_00 14:31

Yeah, no, thank you for sharing that. That is funny. I remember those thefts of my clothing at some point. But I mean, I guess I would share sort of my memory of it, and I alluded to it a little bit earlier when I was asking the question. I came into that home carrying everything I had just left behind. My whole childhood in Leyu, St. Vincent, my friends, the life I knew, and almost immediately there were two toddlers who needed things: needed a pacifier, needed a bottle, needed to be changed, needed to be walked to school as you continue to grow, and also who needed to be watched, like for when my parents went to work or whatever the circumstance may have been at that particular time. But also two younger sisters who needed to be loved, and I loved you and still love you, but I also had my own grief that nobody was asking about because there were more pressing things that needed to happen at that moment in time in our lives. I think that the first time I learned to carry things quietly was during that childhood period for me when I was 13, where I just sort of didn't share my feelings of how I was feeling and what I just sort of classified as grief. Did you ever know that version of me existed at some point? Honestly, I had no clue.

SPEAKER_01 16:16

Until I read this book, St. Vincent was a mystery to me. Even your landing here, I understood that what I knew of you in the early years was that you were very intelligent, that you came and you strive always to be better. You were you went to John Jay, you even what's it called was valedictorian of your class. So to us, it was just always an aspirational moment. You were always striving for more. Everyone was always striving for more based on the opportunities we had here on these gold-page streets and dollars flying everywhere. Oh yeah. Right. But you always showed up as that motherly figure, no matter what, at what age you were there. You always taught us more and showed us more. All of you did, especially you, as you were taking us along with you as you progressed in life.

SPEAKER_00 17:16

Yeah, no, that's the thing about the second mother dynamic. It wasn't a choice that I made consciously, or even I'm sure our other sisters made consciously. It was just what the situation asked of us at that time, and of course, we answered that call. I was, in some ways, a second mother to you in Kiana. I don't say that to take anything away from our mother at all. She carried all five of us, and the dynamic in doing so was real. Now you and I know that even though at some point in our life we lived in a two-parent household, sometimes it still felt like she was a single mom. Did you feel that? Yeah, definitely, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 18:06

So you were just our sister, you were structure, you were authority, you were consistency, and it came from love, but it also came with weight. Especially after the male that helped give birth to us push herself. Mommy had to do what she had to to survive. I call it taking care of other people's kids and cleaning, given that's what she could get a job in at the time. An entire state of way, truly. Well felt like a lack of care or presence was the most significant love and sense of responsibility of all. We and that's what we learned as we grew, and that's that realization as an adult. But especially during that time, you filled in and supported us. I get it take I actually get the saying now that it takes a village, and now it becomes if you ever heard a saying, hindsight is 2020, I understand what it all demanded from everyone in that situation. We were no longer in a two-parent household, even when we were in a two-parent household, the load that had to be carried by each and everyone, a view of us, even to act accordingly. Sometimes it felt like we were truly being raised by a second mom that was a sibling who was also slow growing up herself, but I didn't understand it all and held some resentment, but gratitude as well. And at this age, I understand completely and give the grace where it's due and the respect where it's due. Of course, as we said, nothing against a mommy, of course. She did the best with the hand she was dealt, and she did a phenomenal and exceptional job. But you also did an exceptional job by pitching in and seeing and understanding at that moment, even at a young age, where you had to lean in.

SPEAKER_00 19:58

Yeah, no, thank you. I mean, I guess here's what I know sort of when I look back. I felt like I parented you before I was a parent, and by the time I had my first child, I already had practice, of course, and a sense of responsibility that went beyond even myself. So that was good for me. I also wonder sometimes if I was too much, if the oversight crowded out space for you to just be the little sister. What do you think about that?

SPEAKER_01 20:34

I would say at some points I would grapple because one time you gave us a beat and I was like, oh no, this is a little bit too much, right? The discipline. Right? The discipline. I hear, I I hear, I understand. I definitely do, I definitely do. But that was the point that was like, I don't know, this this feels off, right? And maybe that's what the resentment I was saying I spoke about before, because it was like that's why I felt like you were like a second mother, because like we had to get disciplined even by our sibling, and it felt a bit unfair in that moment, but at the same time, I felt protected and watched, loved, and manage. And sometimes, yes, it was a lot, but it also shaped me, it made me sharper, more aware, and I had to learn who I was outside of that dynamic, not against it, but separate from it, I know it was what made me who I am today with strong independence, drive, grit, and a voice. And to be very honest, I wouldn't be in the roles I am in corporate America today without your interjection and your support, because we saw how you grew, we saw how you were molded, you brought us along for the journey. That's why, even in my corporate roles today, I always say I want to be a fly in the wall because that's where I've always learned the most. Started with always shadowing you in your job at Kingsbrook, and along the way, you always open up opportunities and you still continue to do that. So when you say you were prepared early in life for your motherhood, I completely get it because I also see the same as right now, of course, I'm not a mother yet. Hopefully, if I'm blessed to have a child, I'll also be prepared based on how I've been helping to raise even my niece and nephews because it takes a village.

SPEAKER_00 22:37

It truly does take a village. Yeah, no, you're definitely favorite auntie there. And I'm sure when the time comes for you to have the opportunity, if you choose to be a mom, that you will be a great mom. So I know you're here solo, and we talked a little bit about you being a twin, so I just wanted to delve into that a little bit deeper. Because I really think that that's significant to sort of the stories that we're talking about and going to delve a little bit into as well. So you came into the world in a pair. You were actually the second of the two, so that's why you're the youngest of the five of us. And from the very first moment, you were already in relationship, already sharing in the womb and out of the womb. And then you grew up in a household of five daughters, which means even within the family, you were really singular. So, what has it meant to move through life as a twin, especially in a family as big as ours was, with this much history and personality already in the room?

SPEAKER_01 23:52

I think that actually helped. I actually enjoyed being a twin because of that. You always had someone with you, you always had someone that understood your struggles. So it didn't feel like I was one and alone, the one that was different that it didn't have the same shared experiences. I had someone that shared my experiences because we both observed everything that was going on. We had someone to talk to, we had someone that was always there. Now, to be very fair, like as we were growing, I didn't see as much of a difference in our how we were raised, but I did see a big responsibility on your guys' shoulder. Right. I didn't realize I even thought of like even discipline or how we we were intended the intention for us to just be more and be greater felt a little heavier on us, but I realized you all had the heaviest burden because you had to navigate it a bit more independently while we had support around the band at every corner. Right. So it was a blessing in that way. The curse became when we had to pay for everything times two.

SPEAKER_00 25:14

That is funny. Yeah, it can get a bit expensive. So ultimately, did being a twin make things easier or harder to find your individual identity, especially with so many strong women ahead of you?

SPEAKER_01 25:33

I would say it did make it harder to find our own identity, or even my own identity. You see how I'm saying our. But as I grew, I've always said we because I was always a unit. Right. There was always someone there. I always had to think of Kiana, not because I was forced to because I wanted to, and because that was my my buddy, that was my you know, my bestie in the womb and out of the womb. We shared nights on the beds, having secrets, talking to one another. But it definitely was, I would say, a little harder to have our own identity, especially coming after such exceptional siblings. We had to prove to be as excellent and even better because we were American born and raised, so we should have had less struggles, right? Definitely should have had less struggles and barriers that we had to come with. We had a slight accent, sure, because of the household we came in, but we definitely didn't have like the big accent. I understood and heard all the stories about how people used to speak about your accents, saying they can't understand you. Even people still to this day say they can't understand our mother. And like, what do you mean? Speaking English. What are you saying to me? Like what don't like what are you hearing in your ears that I'm not hearing here? Right. But it definitely was a bit, it definitely was a bit harder to have our own identity, especially when we were no longer with our father, and it became very hard financially, and we didn't immediately fit in. So we met our own struggles. I wouldn't say it's the same struggles from a migration perspective. It was the struggles of living in America in a lower income situation, and no father in the household, and being raised by our siblings because our mother had to step away and work, and we didn't just have immediate support. We were alone in that nature. It was just us six, and it became very hard even to show that identity to be different. It was always a we. I couldn't think about me. And it's even today, it feels very hard to think about me alone. It's become a we situation since I was born. So I sometimes feel regret or remorse or feel like I'm not doing enough for those around me because it was always something about doing a unit, not ever being self-serving, but being selfless along the way.

SPEAKER_00 28:27

Yeah, no, thank you for sharing that. I mean, that's really deep. And I guess the reason why I asked that question about identity is because I think about it a lot in the context of the work that I do. The question of who am I separate from the groups that I belong to, whether that's in your case, your twin, or your migrant family, your organization, your culture, that to me is the restless excellent question at its very core, and what I like to talk about. So for you, who are you when you strip all the labels before the youngest of five girls, before the twin, before, you know, anything else when it comes to all the things that we've touched on already? Who are you?

SPEAKER_01 29:28

I would say that's a very good question. And honestly, it's been something I'm grappling with even at this age, right? Because sometimes it's hard to define who I am because what I realize is because of even as we talk about your book, we continue to carry such great weight that it's hard to ever think about me without feeling like I'm being selfish. But when I ship all the labels, and when I determine and identify what I know to be true about myself, is that I know I'm a person full of grit, compassion, great empathy, and perseverance. And those are the words I would use to describe myself. And I'm still evolving, I'm still trying to find myself, which is why I've even taken the time in the last few years to separate myself from different people just to see how I operate as an independent individual, how I become more selfish. It sounds crazy, but to be more selfish because I've always been selfless and caring for others, doing for others. And I want to understand what I want to do for myself. I want to invest in myself, I want to give back to myself. So I'm still exploring. I'm trying to go into different activities to see what I enjoy, see what I like. I'm trying to meet different people to see who I align with, but I do know what I don't like. And that's one of the biggest things to identify who you are as a person.

SPEAKER_00 31:07

Yeah, no, I definitely have to say that I've observed those things as well. And it's a journey and it's going to be ongoing for some time, definitely. So I wanted to shift gears a bit because I think this is part of the conversation that most people listening are going to find surprising or maybe even moving, or I guess maybe both. But I, Tanya Richards, wrote a memoir. And it's called Carrying the Island: Migration, Identity, and the Making of a Leader. And it is genuinely the most personal thing I have ever put on paper. It's been a long time in the making, but it's finally almost here, coming spring 2026, and it covers my childhood in Layu, my mother leaving Layu first to come to America, the years of waiting to join her, ultimately arriving in Brooklyn in 1995, building a life here in America, becoming a professional here in the work world, even becoming a wife and becoming a mother, all of it. And Kibrina, you read the memoir. One of the first to do so. So what was it like to read this book?

SPEAKER_01 33:01

You want to know? Truly, it was a fantastic book, and I'm not saying that just because I'm your sister. Yes, you are. But it's true. But it's true, it absolutely is true. But now I'm not saying that just because I'm your sister. It is a very easy and good read. Honestly, it's full of stories. I've I always said that each one of us needs to write a book because the stories that will come about, people will think that we're probably Tyler Perry making things up. The stories are so surreal, and you and it's honestly something that so many people can connect to, relate to. Because everyone's memories aren't solid, but for you, your memory will always be the most solid for your experiences. Right. We may twist and turn and assume, and especially in this family where even the nieces and nephews try to steal stories and say that it's theirs, like, oh, this is what happened to me. And you'd be like, wait a minute, stop lying, girlfriend, a boyfriend. But for you, this story was actually this memo was amazing. Because one thing I would say I've always liked desired and felt there was a lack of was a telling of what happened in St. Vincent. That's the one thing I would say I lack. I don't feel like I know my lineage, I don't feel like I know my past. It wasn't spoken to me, it wasn't told to me. When you asked about it, much wasn't revealed. So this is the first glimpse I get of what actually happened in the before times and the after times, how it made you guys feel, because I've only been grappling with my own position in this life in this world, which at that point seems selfish because I never even knew the struggles that you carried, or 100% the struggles that our mother carried, or even our siblings are carrying because their stories are not out. So this memoir makes me want to even ask more questions, see what is out there, learn more about our family, because that's one thing I feel like I lack an understanding of the full family and their experiences.

SPEAKER_00 35:45

Yeah, I know. It was definitely a process, and we'll talk about that a little bit more. You said that there were some things that I guess you weren't aware of that may have surprised you. Do you want to expound on that? Because I know you know the family and you know me, but reading it is different from living alongside it. So what surprised you the most?

SPEAKER_01 36:13

So I would say what surprised me the most, I'd say maybe like I'll take two things because you don't want to give the book out for free. Um gotta go listen, everyone. But I would say one, I had no clue that we had a grandfather that was a farmer.

SPEAKER_00 36:35

Oh yes.

SPEAKER_01 36:36

Actually, I give you three. Two, I didn't know how our grandmother came into this world. Oh, wow. That was quite surprising. And three, I would say is the experiences you had when you were left alone, when you thought you would be safe and secure.

SPEAKER_02 37:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:04

And those were the the biggest things that kind of was like, wow, I know it's your story to tell, but that last piece, truly, like the safety that you didn't feel a hundred percent, and that you were alone in a home for some time just to take back that safety that you had, I could have never imagined because it explains a lot, and that's why people say your decisions today are based off your experiences.

SPEAKER_02 37:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:36

So even how we raise our children, who we surround them with, it I can understand now from like parts of the story in the past, the decisions you make and continue to make.

SPEAKER_00 37:48

Yeah. No, I mean, I have to tell you, just going through that writing process and reliving a lot of those events and memories, it was a bit therapeutic for me, and it actually did help me sort of understand a little bit about myself too, and why I am the way that I am. So I'm excited that I finally got to do it, and it was something that took some level of courage to do because there are stories that are shared that not everyone may want to be shared with the world, but I definitely had to ensure that I was true to what happened and ensure that I handled those particular experiences and stories and just relaying them and releasing them to the world with care and with love.

SPEAKER_01 38:46

I I can see that. It definitely brought a smile to me. Sometimes you're like, I don't know what it's gonna be in a memoir, what stories are going to be told, but it it kept pulling me in. And I'll tell you, I'm not a uh I don't want to say this to sound terrible, but I'm not generally a book reader. I love watching my I I love reading captions on a TV show. That's my version of reading a book. Just joking. But it it was phenomenal. I I would say that. But let me flip the tables on you a little bit. Oh, okay. I'd like to ask you something because reading it, I kept thinking about this. You write about carrying so much, the weight of the immigration, the family, the career, the expectations. But when did you decide that you deserve to have that story told, your story told? What made you finally say this is worth a book?

SPEAKER_00 39:44

A lot of people have said to me over the years, when things just happen in my life, oh my goodness, you should write a book. And it took it probably was always set in jest and something that I would laugh off. But as I got older and wiser, it was something that I was interested in. So I really think that that's a real question, and I really want to ensure that I answer it to the extent that I possibly can. For me, I really think a lot of women, especially immigrant women, black women, women who have spent their careers centering other people's narratives, we struggle to believe our story is worth the page count. And that's just not the case. Now, for me, what made me write it was realizing that the story wasn't just mine, it belonged to every woman who left something behind to build something new. It didn't even have to be leaving a particular country or a migration story. Also, every daughter who carried a culture into a country that didn't fully see her. Every professional who built an executive career while quietly grieving parts of herself along the way. It's for them, all of them. And it's also for you, Kabrina, and it's for Crystal, my eldest daughter, and for whoever may even come after that from a generational or legacy standpoint.

SPEAKER_01 41:26

Yeah, I can see that definitely. I I hit on one point too, because I would say it definitely was a book for me. And you speak about so many things, not just the migration story, you're not carrying the island, but even your your current place in life right now, your corporate life coming into womanhood, and many things of that sort. I'm still navigating that, and it's exciting to see even one thing that I struggle with at work, right? Is and many people in our position, black women, my any immigrants or people that are firstborn, first generation. There's so many firsts, there's so many things that you can align yourself with. But one of the biggest ones was when you're like in corporate and people don't see you for all the effort that you're putting in, and not just effort with a strategy, but you don't get as much as what someone is putting in as far as half of the work, even though you're rubbing the elbows, you're doing the networking, you're being personable, you're doing excellent work, you have to make sure your T's about it, your eyes, you cannot, you cannot slack. You have to make sure you're always at 100%. But in these spaces, I've seen you not only get a seat at the table, you're like, bump this. I'm building my own table. Right. And that is something I greatly admire because I realize sometimes the table's not going to, there's never gonna be a seat for you at that table. Then not going to open up the seat for you at that table. So if you ever really want that position, it's gonna be up to you to make sure your story is written and you make sure you execute your story and build that table for yourself. But let me ask you, was there anything you almost didn't put in? Something you wrote and then sat with and had to decide, is this too much?

SPEAKER_00 43:35

Ooh. Yeah, there were a lot of those moments within the last several months deciding what to put in, what not to put in, how to put it in, if you decided to put it in. And I guess one thing that I can definitely point to, and again, there were a number of them, is with regards to when I talk about being a child. And not being protected and being vulnerable. I really did not want to include that, but I had to, and the decision that I ultimately made was not to do a specific deep dive into what that was and who was involved and things of that sort. Because I think that I wanted to ensure that I protected everyone that is or was involved, however, still stay true to my story because every element, good, bad, or indifferent, and every event that happened to me and my family during those years has made me who I am.

SPEAKER_01 44:50

I love that. I love that answer. Definitely. And truly, as a sister, I admired that. You're not holding back, you're not crafting the perfect story or soliloquy. Because they're gonna say, hey, what's happening here? Like, of course, there's a climax, nothing's perfect. We also we all have to understand that nothing is perfect, and I think that was something I even struggled with because as we grew, we saw the grip, we saw the perseverance, and that to me that was perfection, always supporting people, always moving forward, never breaking character, never breaking emotion, and that looked like perfection. But revealing that that's not was something that really like brings you to the forefront to say, hey, I could let down this mask, I can be something more. Oh, was that really not something I had to carry, or something I had to deal with, or I shouldn't be putting this mask on because this could be benefiting or even harming right, right? The people that come after me, and I think that's what the book provided me, honestly, and as your sibling, that's what really helped me even more seeing your version of events, your story, and how you communicated it, to understand that I'm not alone in these thoughts. And of course, you just you haven't released it yet, but as that pre-read, I it's helping me even right now because that's something these are a lot of the things I'm currently struggling with in relationships, friendships, significant other partnerships, family, belonging, corporate, working, doing things for myself. Now it's been a phenomenal book, right? And I like to understand what you think I should have been taken away.

SPEAKER_00 46:59

Oh, that's a good question. So I think I mean you're in the book, not in every chapter, but you're definitely in the book because you lived it. But as far as what you should be taken away, I would say just continuing to be yourself, continuing to grow, continuing to evolve, but also learning about that origin story of where you came from. Because even though you didn't live the St. Vincent life, it still sort of gives you a window into understanding our mother, our grandmother, or maybe even our father, and the elder sisters, the three of us that actually were born in St. Vincent and navigated to America, and why we probably make particular choices that we make in life, and how potentially that can influence the choices that you make going forward. So with that being said, and you shared a little bit earlier about the things that you thought about with regards to reading the book and and some other items, but because the book tells my side of carrying, but your experience of this family, of migration, of identity, of what it means to be a Richards woman, that's a story too, even if it starts on a different soil. So I just wanted to re-emphasize that before we transition to sort of the next and maybe the last segment of our conversation today. So, with that said, let's talk about what we carried for each other. One more question before we close out. What did I carry for you that you've maybe never said out loud?

SPEAKER_01 49:03

Absolutely, that's pretty easy. That's pretty easy. I'm not sure if I ever told you. So, as I was growing up, my dream job, because, like I said earlier, you took us into spaces that helped us grow, even that put me in even a space in corporate America, showed me how to behave, showed me how to carry myself in these settings, how to communicate appropriately and effectively in a world that isn't always too kind to us. It it made me admire you so much that it is funny, it's so small, but so funny that my dream when growing up, I didn't have a dream job except for being a lawyer. And then later on, and then later on, I was like, you know what? That's a lot of schooling right there. And I really like business and I like risk and preventing any legal situations, so I kind of pivoted there. But my dream, back to the point of it all, is so small because I saw you going to work every day, and what you generally wore were pantsuits. It made me feel like that was the symbolism of strength. A pant suit on a woman with a beautiful body, right? And I don't mean to objectify, but when a woman just fills out that the suit and it just looks like it's not a skirt because it then brings to me, it felt like it was it was bringing the vibrations down. Let's say the vibrations down, it you could be any woman, but someone in a suit just evoked so much power, and I felt like it was such a powerful woman, and I wanted to be powerful too. So the first thing I bought with my first paycheck when I got into when I got into corporate at BlackRock was two pants suits. I remember them daily, a light gray suit and a white suit. And that made me feel like I made it.

SPEAKER_00 51:19

Nice. Oh wow, I didn't know that. Thank you for sharing that. And since we're in the mood for sharing, let me tell you what you carried for me, and I'm gonna do this publicly on this forum because I don't say it enough at all. You were born into everything that we, my sisters and I, worked for. When I arrived, again, almost 13 years old, a stranger in a new country, you and Kiana were two years old, completely unaware of what it had taken just to get us all in the same room. Okay? Watching you grow up and graduate from college, you from Temple University, build your life in Delaware and the Philly circuit on your own terms. I saw the whole arc of it. We crossed the ocean so that the next chapter could look like you. You carried the proof that all of that was worth it.

SPEAKER_01 52:30

I'm honored, thank you so much. I truly, I truly appreciate that. And I would say that I always say this on top of that, to add to exactly what you said, is I'm so grateful that mommy came over to America every day, regardless of the situation in America today. I'm so grateful for the opportunity because I would say one of the things that I've carried, and I think we still continue to carry, is the sacrifice that she made. Because some people may not see it as a sacrifice, but it was a sacrifice because people think it's that easy to come to America and make a name for yourself. Even people in those in the countries that people are migrating from, you don't realize that you could date in the ocean for free. You don't realize you could climb a tree and grab some fruit for free. You don't realize you could kill one of them chickens roaming the streets, cutting to the boo for free. And you're set. While we're here in America, you have to pay for water, you have to pay for the air you breathe, you have to pay for the land, you have to pay for every single thing. So now just all beyond that, I'm so grateful because I had an opportunity. No matter how we shape it or frame it, I was given a greater opportunity to prove myself and become more. And it is something I do hold and carry as a weight on my shoulder, a chip on my shoulder, that I have to be more than the last generation, be more than my mother, and even be equally as great as my siblings, or more given what they've had to go through. Of course, their drive is gonna be even more because they have something more to prove. But for me, I have to keep reminding myself that hey, my mother didn't do this for anything, like just for anything. She gave up a life and she did this from a ri was it a rice mill worker? What was she like? So there's a flour mill worker? So that we could be in uh a cubicle or somewhere where we're creating an opportunity for the future generations to see that there's a massive growth. And if people don't see the growth that was had based on where our family has come from, as long as we see it and we know that we're doing more and that the other generations do not become complacent and do more and give back more and be a better version of who we were, I feel like everything Sean did to move over here was worth it in the end. And I I just don't want to be a disappointment. And I know that's a lot to carry, yeah, but it's something that I have to continue to carry no matter what, and I choose to carry because I want to make sure that that's something that continues to drive me because you have to remember your history or you're doomed to repeat it. I don't want to see my nieces and nephews or you know my children becoming anything less than we have been. I want them to have the growth opportunity. I want them to understand the struggles that we've gone through. Because one thing I realize in this generation is that they don't fully realize maybe with this book, they will realize what people have gone through, especially us, or especially you all. But sometimes it's it's remember, it's hindsight is 2020, and it becomes too late at that point where you need to understand and see that hey, this hasn't been this easy all the time. We made it easier for you, but that doesn't mean you need to make it super easy, you need to show the next generation beyond yourself that you need to work harder and harder so that there's something, a legacy that we've left behind.

SPEAKER_00 56:21

Oh, yeah, no, definitely. I get that, especially being born as a privileged American, and I say that in jests and in a in quotations, because if someone can come from another country and feel like you're starting behind, coming here as an adult, not having gone to school here, and starting over as compared to someone who was born here, then you have to ensure that you, being more privileged in that way, accomplish as much or even more than that particular person. So the other thing that I guess I wanted to touch on for us is with regards to who we are, with regards to us being two women with particular chapters and seasons of our life. So just being a little bit real about where we both are. I am married, now 19 years this year, 26 together with my husband, three children, a home, a business, a forthcoming book or two, right? A whole lot of moving pieces. And you're in Delaware, sort of the Philly area, continuing to build your career in your season, figuring out your next chapters on your own timeline, which sounds fun. We are in fundamentally different seasons of life, and I think that's worth naming without any hierarchy or anything like that. We're just in different places, and again, there is that 10-year gap. What does your season feel like right now?

SPEAKER_01 58:11

So, my season right now feels like, and I would say that when we spoke about carrying, I was carrying a chip on my shoulder I needed to be successful. I was just trying to bulldoze through life and get as high as possible, get as much money as possible in the interim. How has that worked out? Everyone's journey is different, right? Right? Completely and definitely in a different season. I have gotten to the point where I've worked so hard that I don't have imposter syndrome. I know I can do anything and be anything, but I personally wanted and in the recent years to slow down, to gain back my time, to now invest in my community and meaning in building it, meaning my friendships, bringing my family back together. Because I would say I was carrying so much that I got so tired at some point that even I had to separate from, of course, our family and siblings, where of course sometimes I wouldn't answer messages or calls, but that's because I was breaking down mentally with so much to carry because I put such a heavy burden and load on my shoulders, and sometimes it was a burden that wasn't mine to carry. And even times now, I still carry burdens that are in mind to carry, and I have to continue to remind myself of what I need to carry. So in this season, I'm discovering myself, I'm trying to learn what I love, what I need. I want to make sure that my family, my siblings, my nieces and nephews, the people around me feel appreciated, feel like I am present, and I'm even apologetic in some in many fashions because I couldn't do all of it at the same time where others can. I just didn't learn how to do it. I didn't know how to do it, and that's no excuse. That's why I'm aiming to make sure that's a part of my life. I'm also heavy in my spirituality and making sure there's a higher power. I believe in God, and I make sure I want to make sure that I'm at peace in my spirit, at peace in everything that I'm doing. It's just a part of the process. Everyone lives and learns. We're all, and I say this all the time, we're all living this life for the first time. So I can't hold higher expectations for my mother, I can't hold higher expectations for my siblings, I can't hold higher expectations for a partner or certain things. Of course, you want to see them grow and have some expectations to some degree, but they're all learning along the way. They haven't been here before. We had all here, we all were born, we all live in our first life, so I have to have grace, and I also have to have grace for myself. Right now, I'm in a relationship, and that's something I'm now pursuing. At first, I didn't think that's something I wanted to pursue because I thought there was a pattern. I had to make sure my finances were right first, I had to make sure that my community was right for my spirituality was right, but I'm working on it and I've been improving on it, so I'm delving into that space. I would love to eventually be married. There hasn't always been a thought because my primary focus was success, success, success. Right. And success shows up in many ways, and who am I to judge? Right? Of course, my twig, she had a family first, and some people may have judged that she had a family first and didn't do certain things, but hindsight being 2020 and seeing where we are now, that may have even been a blessing. You can't allow people to judge because she'll be an empty nester sooner than most people, she'll be a nice hot mama, right? And she still has a lot of time as she's young with the ability to have a corporate job or any type of job, or entrepreneurial path, or spirit, whatever she wants to do, and still has the time to build. Everyone's order is not the same order, everyone's life is not the same life. So I appreciate my journey. And I love my journey, and I hope to see it continue to grow, and that you hear better things have come for me, and I'm sure you will within the next year and the next two.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:20

Yeah, no, definitely. It is a journey, and just in comparison with yourself and Kiana, it's two separate journeys, and none is better than the other. So it sounds like from what I'm hearing you say that you never really felt those pressures, whether it be from family, from culture, from watching your sisters who have families and homes and things of that sort. I guess for me, the path that I walked, married young, family early, all of it, that was something that was right for me. It is usually not the standard, and I think sometimes without meaning to, older siblings communicate through their choices that there's a right sequence, a right timeline, maybe even a right way to build a life. And the fact of the matter is that there isn't. There's your way, there's my way, there's Kiana's way, and anyone else in our family, and you're actually allowed to be exactly where you are and who you choose to be. So thank you for already recognizing that. I'm very proud to hear that. So the last question, and I think I said this a few minutes ago, so I fibbed a little bit. Oh great. I have to keep going. We can be talking for hours here. The same one that I typically ask myself every time. What are you still carrying that you haven't named yet? And is there anything, even one thing, that you're ready to sit down? That's a good question.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:07

I would say one thing I'm still carrying is definitely, I know it's not a burden that uh it's not a burden at all, but it's it's something that sits in my soul and in my heart. That from all the hard work and all the like everything that our mother has given to this world and to us. And of course, the position she found herself in early in life as we were aging. I I want to see, like, it's really I know this is something that we've discussed.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:47

Which position, which position she found herself in.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:50

Not her not due to her own work or her own efforts, but as a single mother. Okay, right? That was kicked out from her children, and we were made homeless on our own, and she just strove for more, and she she had to uh buckle up and do what needed to be done.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:09

I mean, she had she didn't have a choice, she had five kids and she still needed to take care of.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:13

And I see less people crumble under a one child, like and not figure it out. So that's something I greatly admire, but what I'm still caring is to see my mother working so hard still at this age, right? And I want to I I want to see her win in some way, and sometimes I would say that I even put like my future aside, or like what I see of my future, like pursuing a relationship or getting myself at home immediately and things of that nature, because God forbid, I know we lived long in this family, but I would love for her to see. Just that it all paid off. She's seen it with us, and I also want to see it for her that it's all paid off in the end. Her in a home, uh a nice home, or what's it called, her not having to worry, her having children and generations surround her. That's what I want to see, and that's like something I still carry. And I know it's not something I have to carry, but it's something I still seek. And that is something that I I struggle with putting down. And I know that could be a bad thing or a and a positive thing, of course, but that's in my heart. And now what I am ready to set down is everyone's expectations of who or what I should be or what I should be doing, even in friendships and things of that nature. There's I can't carry everything. And I learned to realize that, especially in these years, and that's I do still get emotional sometimes about why can't I do certain things for my family? We even had an earlier discussion about helping you or helping a significant other, helping my friends, or being more attentive, but I don't have the capacity. And I feel so bad because I I I say some people have the capacity, I see people have the capacity, and I'm always like, how did they figure it out? But I once again I don't know their full story, I don't know what's on their lane, I don't know everything. And that's one thing I want to put down because it does occupy headspace that takes away that piece for me. And if I'm wrong about it, I'd love for someone to correct me, but I always want to be a better person and improve continuously. But there are some things I don't want to be held accountable for when it's not mine to carry.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:53

Right. Yeah, no, thank you for sharing those items. I have to say that at some point in my journey, I did feel those particular sentiments. So I'm confident that you'll get to the point where you're satisfied in accomplishing what you set out to accomplish. That's just who we are, right? So, I mean, from my perspective, what I'm still learning to sit down, and you and I talked about this a number of times over the last few years, but for me, it's really the belief that I have to earn my right to rest. Oh, nice and to be still and to exist in the life I built without constantly managing it, constantly growing it, and even justifying it. I built something real and I should be allowed to live in it. That's the work, that's the real work. Not just for those of us who crossed the waters of the Atlantic Ocean or whichever ocean you came from, but for everyone who was born on the other side of someone else's sacrifice and still feels the weight of it all. The other thing that I just wanted to touch on briefly is how we talked about the book that's forthcoming, the manuscript that's now complete. Again, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap. So before we close, I want to say something directly to everyone that's listening. Carrying the Island is coming this spring. It is a memoir about migration and identity and the making of a leader, but honestly, it is about any woman who has ever left something behind to become something more. It's about any professional who has carried more than anyone around them knew that they were carrying or could carry. It's also about any daughter who grew up between two worlds and had to build a third one for herself. If any piece of this conversation with my sister, Cabrina Richards, landed for you, if you heard something in what was said and shared that felt like it was your story too, then this book was written for you. You'll hear more about it as we continue to talk over the coming weeks. So ensure that you get a copy for yourself and also for any other woman in your life that's carrying more than she lets on. Get it for your daughter so that she knows where she comes from. And if you read it, please come back and tell me. Find me on LinkedIn, on Instagram, on Facebook, on YouTube, wherever you are. Tell me what you carried and what you're putting down. That conversation was the whole point of this particular session today. Now, Cabrina, thank you so much for joining me. I love you from the bottom of my heart.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:06

It was an honor. I love you so much, and you owe me for this.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:11

Listen, I'll call you tomorrow and check in on you. That's how we'll cash in on that favor.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:18

See, second mom never stops.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:22

So, share this episode with the sibling who showed up for you in ways you've never fully named. Let them know you see it. I'm Tanya Richards, and this is Restless Excellence.