This is the Hissing Feline Podcast, a weekly program that is about everything cats. The Hissing Feline features experts and other cat aficionados who share their knowledge and perspectives about dealing with felines, from strays and ferals to adoption, health, and cat psychology. We hope the topics give you helpful and interesting insight into the world of cats. Now, here is the host of the Hissing Feline, Clark Greer.
SPEAKER_02Do you remember meeting someone with whom you immediately clicked? Maybe the person was a classmate or a work colleague. You knew the friendship would be the kind that would last for years. Those types of connections are not just for humans. Animals also develop similar relationships. They're referred to as bonded buddies. My guest today to talk about the topic is Carol Griglione, Executive Director of the Animal Rescue League in Des Moines, Iowa. Carol, thank you for joining me again. You're no stranger to the podcast. I'm really happy to have you on today to talk about one of your very favorite subjects.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, thank you for having me, and you're right. This absolutely is one of my favorite subjects. What are bonded buddies? Yeah, so bonded buddies are really uh, you know, two animals, so I'll say two animals in general for species, who formed a close social relationship and um defend depend on each other for comfort, um, for security, just for normal behavior, and they actually function better together than independently. So it's more than just coexisting.
SPEAKER_02So I gotta tell you, I just told you this story. I'm gonna tell our listeners that's really interesting. So where my wife and I live, just down our little street, there's some people that have a I'm gonna say a labradoodle. I don't know exactly the mix it is, but it's curly haired dog. It's it's about the size of a labrador.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And um so when he takes the dog out to do its thing out on the lawn, what happens next is a gray community cat shows up and just sits next to the dog. I have never seen something like that. Yeah. And so the joke is who owns who? And so our neighbor says, well, the cat owns the dog.
SPEAKER_01So of course, don't they?
SPEAKER_02So um animal bonds don't have to be between a single species like uh dogs or cats, then.
SPEAKER_01They don't. And I it's one of the most fascinating things that I've probably learned in my 30-some years here at the Animal Rescue League. So normally, and it could be because people get two cats or get two dogs, but normally we see the species being the same, but we have had actually had many times where the species are different. In fact, this but whole bonded buddy thing came up years and years and years and years ago here at the Animal Rescue League when somebody brought in a dog and a cat together and they had lived together. At the time, sheltering was more like, okay, well, the dogs go to this side and the cats go over here, which is what we did. And uh the cat stopped eating. The dog was laying around depressed all the time. And so our CEO, Tom Colvin, who was uh with us clear back then, said, Well, let's try putting them together and see what happens. So we moved the cat into the dog kennel with the dog, and they were fine. Cat started eating, they slept together, dog was fine, and so thus there's our bonded buddy program. And so at that time, we adopted out those two together. They went to a home together, lived out their life together. So, but we have seen other other species, and I think I'll, you know, I've mentioned, you know, one of my favorites is we had a rabbit and a guinea pig that were completely bonded. And anytime you walked up to the housing for the rabbit and the guinea pig, the rabbit would step in front of the guinea pig like it was watching out for the guinea pig. It was crazy. Um and we adopted them out together. We've had a a bird and a guinea pig. They had to be they weren't in the same cage, but their cages had to be next to each other, or there was problems with that. So, and you see that you see that in the wild as well. I mean, different species bonding, and they're each obviously giving each other something that they need.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, they're just they're really amazing stories. I have a friend that I've known for quite a number of years, and he was, I think he was watching a TV show or something, and I don't remember which channel it was on, but he said uh some of the shows featured bonding type things. And he was talking about a little dog bonding with a horse or something.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. And you know, your neighborhood cat, uh community cat bonding with the dog, you know. So you do see it. And um I just find the stories to be incredible, and I think it really it speaks to what we should really be thinking about animals and animal species that they're capable of having friendships as well. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And they're pretty animals are a lot smarter than we give them credit for. I was talking to somebody on the show a while back, and he says, you know, we don't give enough credit to cats. Yep. And how they they connect with humans, and I imagine they're connecting with with other species too.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely, absolutely. And good point on the cat end of it, because I think people think that they're aloof and don't really care and da-da-da. But they have they have those feelings um as well. And I I think we see it, and we see it all the time in our work here with the animal shelter or just in our own relationships with our pets at home.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. How obvious is the bond between two animals?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know, it can be really obvious and it can be really subtle, is the thing with these with these animals. So, like you can have a pair of cats and they sleep together and they groom each other and or whatever, or you could have a much more subtle. They don't necessarily lay together, they don't groom each other, but they know where the other one's at any time in the house, and they have those relationships where they're like, Oh, okay, there's that one, I'm gonna go be with that one. So it's sometimes obvious, sometimes subtle. Um, and it's something we spend a lot of time here at the Animal Rescue League when um cats come in or dogs come in together to kind of observe, see what's really going on, to see if they are bonded or not.
SPEAKER_02Are there specific types of characteristics, uh mannerisms of the animals in their relationship that you can easily identify bonding? You were talking about sometimes it's pretty subtle. Are there certain signs that you look for?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know, in the shelter world, um, what will happen sometimes is we will not be sure. And so we may separate them and put them in different cages, basically. Um and we can see a lot, it gets magnified, I think, when we do that sort of thing, because you start to see one of them maybe being more stressed or not eating as well, and da-da-da, and you're like, okay, it's missing its friends, so let's put them back together, and then all the behavior starts well again, you know, together. So some is more subtle, but I think we do um we don't do them justice if we don't consider that they have those abilities to be friends. And I mean I've got a perfect example. Um there was a cat I adopted a couple years ago. He was six months old at the time, and he came in with a sibling cat, and they were both in a foster home, and the foster home wanted to keep his sibling, and I adopted the one. And a year later, I had always told her, if you can't keep his brother, call me. And a year later she was moving, she was able to keep him, so I took him in. So Bacchi, my original cat, I had um come into the room and with my two other cats, and basically Demby saw him across the room, ignored the other two cats, sprinted right for his brother, who he had been separated from for a year.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01They immediately nose-kissed, they do everything together now. They follow each other around, they I mean they play together. So even those bonds maybe that got broken, they remember.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and I I I heard about that that cats can remember a long time. That's curious as how can do cat or get cats gonna remember you, and and they actually do.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. And so, you know, that's another thing to keep in mind too with these bonded buddies, that they do remember their friends. Um, and we've had that happen a couple times here too, where one cat came in and then later another cat came in and we look them up and oh my gosh, these cats were together, you know. So yeah.
SPEAKER_02Uh how do you tell if a pair is bonding or simply dependent on each other? I know that there might be a really fine line between the two, but uh but but I'm I'm guessing that can that can kind of be an issue where I don't know if cats can have a codependency, but maybe it's that type of thing. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01No, I think that's a I think that's a really good point. So like, you know, a true bond is going to be mutual. Both cats are gonna benefit from the relationship. And dependence is maybe one relies on the other one for security. So you have a really shy one, you have an outgoing one, the shy one kind of depends on the outgoing one, just for security, knowing it's okay. So you do have to, it's a fine line. We we're careful in how we define that with some of them to make sure that it truly is a bond and they're both getting something from it.
SPEAKER_02What are some reasons that animals bond? I think you've kind of hit on a couple of those things. Is it personality? Is it needs? Yeah. You know, um what are the what are the care those things that they rely on?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so some can be they grow up together. Maybe they were litter mates and they grew up together, and you know, kittens, they're all playing and having fun, but like grow up together, become an adult cat together and stay together, that can cause a that can totally cause a bond to develop. Long-term co um cohabitation in a home would be another one I would say. So, like you don't adopt them together, they didn't come together, they didn't grow up together, but you get a cat and then you go get another cat, and they've lived in this home for a longer time together and now they're bonded. Um, compatible personalities, you know. Hey, I really like to play, I've got a friend, he really likes to play, we're gonna bond because we play all the time together. Um and then stressful situations like a shelter for sure can cause a bond to even deepen. Um, they're very stressed out. As wonderful as I think the Animal Rescue League is, cats are out of their home, they come in here, they don't know what's going on, they've got lots of smells, they've got lots of sounds they aren't familiar with. Having that friend can deepen the bond also. Right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So I had a I had a guest on um just recently, and he was talking about things that cause stress in animals, and obviously you want to reduce that. Cats can get really stressed fast, and by separating those bonds, it could do some some, I'm saying, harm, but you know, cats have psychology too. I guess they act certain ways.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's absolutely right. And you're totally right. And harm is probably the right word. It can absolutely cause harm. Not only the psychology, but like some of this gets manifested with they don't eat, they stress lick, they become, you know, grouchy when maybe they weren't grouchy to begin with, because they're scared, they're unsure, they don't have their their friend even with them. They're in a new place with no friend even. So yeah.
SPEAKER_02What what do bonded buddies do for each other? Obviously, there's companionship there, there's got to be other reasons or you know, benefits to both of the animals.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I I kind of always look at it like from the human side of things. When you have a significant other, a partner, a best friend, somebody, a roommate, and you guys bond together, like what does that have? And I feel like it's the same way with cats. They do provide companionship, they provide security, they provide comfort in times when they maybe they're stressed. They certainly can provide play, playtime, sleep time, you know, grooming. So there's so much these cats can do for each other, not only physically, but psychology uh would say as well.
SPEAKER_02Uh I've I've been on the uh ARL website a lot of times to look at cats. We we have two, we can't have more than two where we live. And I come in here, I look at the kittens, and uh where those are that's terrible to see some kittens and eat a home. But um what is the importance of keeping bonded buddies together? I've noticed that sometimes you'll put up that Fluffy has bonded with Charlie or something like that, and uh it's really important, and and why so?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, um a lot of the reasons really end up being the um emotional end of cats with that. Um and we here at the Animal Rescue League, we just don't separate them if they're bonded to that degree because it's not gonna be good. You know, it's the same thing with maybe human, you know, psychologically you're not doing well, so it can manifest physically and vice versa. So keeping those bonds together and intact is gonna keep them healthier, not only mentally and emotionally, but also physically.
SPEAKER_02You're listening to the Hissing Feline podcast. I'm your host, Clark Greer, with today's guest, Carol Grigleon of the Animal Rescue League in Des Moines, Iowa. We're gonna take a short break, and then after that, we'll visit about cats and bonded buddies. Stay with us.
SPEAKER_00The young couple were dyed in the wool dog people who dreamed of someday having a faithful mutt. Cats were not even on their list. That was until they adopted a timid gray tabby they named Sadie. The cuteness quickly turned into reality when Sadie took charge of the house. The good news was that on her best days, the cat was only slightly difficult. Yet, over two decades, Sadie became a beloved part of the family. The Striped Tornado, Life and Times of a Rotten Cat, is Sadie's story, a memoir that will inspire readers to rise above their challenges, to find companionship and love in the most unlikely places.
SPEAKER_02The Striped Tornado, available on Amazon, you're listening to the Hissing Feline Podcast, a show about everything cats. I'm your host, Clark Rear, with my guest, Carol Griglione. She is the executive director of the Animal Rescue League in Des Moines, Iowa. In the first segment of today's show, we talked relatively generally about bonded buddies. Now we're going to specifically talk about cats. Can you estimate the number of cat pairs at the ARL that are bonded?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I actually actually counted those this morning to make sure I had the number in case you asked. And uh we currently actually have 36 cat pairs. So 36 pairs that are bonded.
SPEAKER_02Do cats bond from the same litter usually because their siblings, they've been around their sibling for at least a short amount of time before they're uh brought to the the shelter. Uh are they from the same litter? Do they have other backgrounds?
SPEAKER_01A lot of them have other backgrounds. You know, we do see litter mates bond, and we certainly have, you know, bonded litter mates to stay together because of the strong bond that they have. But just as often we see bonds of cats that were never litter mates. They grew up in the same house or, you know, even different ages. This one's five and this one's eight, but they lived together for a period of time. Um, maybe we had them in foster care with the same foster provider at the time and they bonded in the foster home.
SPEAKER_02Well, it's it's just like humans. Very much. When you meet somebody and you say, wow, this is you know, and you can feel that there's some type of connection when you meet people. Absolutely. And so animals are this, I guess, the same way. They just know there's a pal or a thing. Yes. Yeah. Yes, very much. Yeah. Do do cats bond at a specific age or is it any any type of age? Is it when they're kittens, when they're older? How does that work?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so actually they can bond at any age. Kittens will bond early just because they're playing and, you know, kind of just start to develop and all sorts of things. But senior cats absolutely can form strong, meaningful bonds with other cats that they get to be in a relationship with, um, especially if they are compatible in their personalities and what they like to do.
SPEAKER_02Will will they stay bonded for life once they connect?
SPEAKER_01Normally they do. Uh normally they do. I had one situation of somebody I was working with who had a bonded pair, and one of the cats looked out of a sliding glass door, and right on the other side of the door was a raccoon looking in, and it totally freaked the cat out, and it immediately redirected what we call redirected aggression, redirected onto the cat, the other cat in the house, and then that cat didn't want anything to do with her. And that relationship that was a very odd one for me because you usually don't see it. Usually you can get those healed up, you know, time they calm down. Uh, it just it never worked again. The bond was broken at that point. But that's about the only, you know, it's very rare. Normally when they're bonded, they're bonded.
SPEAKER_02Is there anything that people can do to encourage that if they, you know, if they're if they have two cats that are bonded, can they encourage the development of those types of things?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, they sure can. You can do it by really kind of trying to find that commonality that they both like. So um, you have a cat, you adopt another cat, your resident cat loves to play, loves the fishing pole, loves to play. The other cat comes in, you start using the fishing pole together with them to get them to start playing together, and then they realize they're compatible in terms of that. Same thing with they both like to sit on your lap and be pet. They're sitting up there, you can pet them both. So it's finding that commonality to make them understand and see, like, hey, you guys like have a lot in common. Let's see if you can actually bond, you know. So sometimes you'll get it, sometimes they're gonna coexist and they're gonna be fine living, but they're you know, they're not best friends.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's that's like our cats. We've got a 10-year-old calico and a five-year-old tabby, and the tabby has more energy. I wish I had her energy. The calico just likes to take it easy and whatever. And we have tried using the wand with little ribbons on it between the two of them. They both love to play with it at the same time. So maybe there is some commonality between the girls.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. They might, you know, that's the other thing too. Sometimes these cats are pretty subtle in their, you know, communication and bonding, and you may not realize it until later, you know, um, when something happens and you're like, oh my gosh, they actually are friends, you know.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Right. Yeah. We've been talking about some examples, and I love the examples you've given about uh bonded pairs. Do you do you have any other examples of cats that you have observed and maybe their mannerisms uh here at the shelter?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, for sure. So just to give you an example of a couple we had here at the at the ARL um because they basically um they originally got adopted um as they were kind of feral kittens at the time, and they got adopted into a home and they did develop a pretty strong bond kind of early on. Now they got returned to the ARL through no fault of their own, and um it was pretty overwhelming for both of them, and they were not real happy to be in a closed space with each other at this time because they're really overwhelmed. So we moved them into what we call our Clowder House here at the Animal Rescue League, and we set them up in in cages next to each other. So they we separated them because they were so tense at this point. Um, but we've moved them in cages next to each other, and over a very short period of time, they started to mirror each other's behavior and lay next to each other just with the kennel between them. And so eventually, not in not too long a time, we put them back together and they were back to being bonded and being all good together. So um, and we've had many situations where maybe a cat has come in and it had lost its companion. And so it's now by itself, and we will match it up maybe with another cat that's in a similar situation, and those bonds formed between that again, having that that something in common, you know, where they're both getting something from each other.
SPEAKER_02Are there other situations that you've encountered uh that would create the bond? Uh you were talking about the separation and uh the thing bringing the cats back to the ARL and so forth. Are there other situations you've encountered that would kind of drive the cats toward each other?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and usually what we've seen with that it's been you know, it's been situations even I can give you an example of like a stress situation. So, you know, two cats or numerous cats are here at the ARL. Two cats are here, they're very both very stressed. They end up being in cages next to each other, or we because they're both not eating. Individual cats never came in together, they're not both not eating, they're very stressed. Put them next to each other in cages, they start to like get to know each other, and then we put them together and they will start, you know, to bond and start eating again. So you see that sorts of things that cats are looking maybe for companionships more than us humans think they are.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and and people know that cats, or at least uh what they've heard is that cats are really temperamental. Right. I think maybe more some more than others, but cats are temperamental. Maybe that maybe temperamental is not the right term for that. Maybe they just have specific types of needs that are causing that reaction.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I mean, let's face it, dogs you can probably read a little bit better than cats, you know, wagging their tail, you know, trying to avoid uh cats are a little different, and I think to some degree you get kind of a bad rap by some people. Um that maybe I always say if you don't like cats, you haven't live with a cat. Live with a cat, you're gonna love a cat in about two minutes. So um because they just haven't maybe been around them as much, and they're harder to read and harder to understand. But cats have that same emotional needs that you know all of us have, all the species have.
SPEAKER_02A little while ago, I mentioned that uh on the ARL's website, when you have cats on there, you show that one cat is bonded to another. Are adopters willing to say, all right, I came looking for one cat, but I know they're bonded and they They really need to be together. Yeah. Will people change their minds or take two cats?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and many times they will. A lot of folks are still trying to, you know, kind of figure out what does that mean, bonded, you know. And um, so we explain, here's what's going on. They came in together, or they met here and they love each other and they bonded, and da-da. So a lot of people change their mind to get two, which I think is fabulous. I love the idea of a minimum of two cats in households. Anyway, we're all living busy lives, or at work, they have another cat or friend at home. So bonded pair is perfect if you're looking to adopt a cat, get get a bonded pair and have two. They already know each other, they're already good with each other. Um and we get asked occasionally, um, like, hey, I only want that one, and you know, we try to explain the bond situation. And we don't unbond cats here at the ARL. If they're bonded, they need to go together.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's I I think that's a really good idea. We've when we when we had a cat, uh, when we first got a cat many years ago, and she was by herself and she was pretty independent, but then uh we found out that we got we adopted Bridget that even the age difference between the two cats, it really helped them to know that there was another cat in the house, and it really helped them to cope when we were on vacation.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. So, and you know, don't we also as humans feel a little bit better when we leave for vacation and we've got like there's two, they're not gonna be alone. Right.
SPEAKER_02You know, yeah. And we and we like to come home and have the cats greet us too. Yeah, absolutely. That's always fun.
SPEAKER_01You bet, yeah.
SPEAKER_02So, what are the advantages of adopting a bonded care for both the cats and the adopter?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, for the cats, it's definitely lower stress during transition. You know, you leave here with your friend, you get to the house, and you're still with your friend. It gives you that, you know, steady thing. Um, definitely maintains emotional security for the cat. It's got its friend with them. Hey, my friend's acting normal. We're okay, you know. Um, and continued social interaction. So you kind of keep up the cat. And we find that with a lot of adopters, like maybe they had a bonded pair and one passed away and they want to get another one. So their cat hopefully has that way help to match which bond might be. So um that helps with that. I mean, for the adopter, I mean, two's always better than one on cats. I'm sorry. Uh, you know, build-in companionship for the cats, like we were just talking about. You don't have to feel maybe as guilty when you go on vacation and you leave them at home, they've got a friend, you know, so it takes off some of that guilt. Much um can be, I won't say much, but can be an easier adjustment period for a cat entering into your household if it has a friend along with it. Um, less need for constant human interaction, which I I get quite a bit. We actually get adopters that go, I love cats, but I do not want that's always on me and always sit on my lap because like I feel like I'm busy and da-da-da. So get a bonded pair and then they have each other to go, you know, interact with as well. And then honestly, it's just, you know, really re rewarding, I think, to us humans um to be able to watch that relationship. I mean, you love cats, you walk in, they're curled up to sleep together. We got lots of adopters who send us pictures of their bonded cats who are curled up next to each other and um or grooming each other, playing together, and you know, just to be able to watch that. It's definitely a distressor for us humans.
SPEAKER_02On today's Hissing Feline podcast, we focused on the topic of bonded buddies. Thank you to Carol Griglione for being with me again today. Always nice to have you on the show. Carol's the executive director of the Animal Rescue League in Des Moines, Iowa. It's been a great discussion about how animals make connections and the importance of keeping them together when they're adopted. Please follow the Hissing Feline podcast and share this program with other cat lovers. Before we wrap up this episode, I want to thank my producer and wife, Georgia. Stop by again next week for another episode of the Hissing Feline and remember, keep purring.
SPEAKER_00Content on the Hissing Feline Podcast is for information and entertainment purposes only, and is not intended to provide medical, veterinary, or legal advice. Please consult your veterinarian and local and state authorities before dealing with feral and stray cats. Opinions expressed are those of the hosts and guests and not necessarily those of Doratio Cat Media LLC. References to products or services do not imply an endorsement. The Hissing Feline podcast is a production of Doratio Cat Media LLC and has been blessed by our rescue cats, Bridget and Maddie. All content is used with permission or under fair use.