The Afternoon Advisor

Why Every Financial Advisor Sounds the Same w/ Emily Armstrong | The Afternoon Advisor E11

• Nate Hoskin, CFP®, AWMA

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0:00 | 53:49

Every advisor says the same thing. Here's how to stop.

Emily Armstrong is the founder of Wonder Lab Strategy and one of the sharpest brand strategists in financial services. She's spent seven years watching advisors try to differentiate themselves — and failing — because they're starting with the wrong question. In this episode, she walks through her full identity architecture framework and explains why the advisors who win are the ones who start at the one-yard line, not the 50.

You'll learn:

- Why "great relationships" and "holistic planning" are killing your marketing — and what actually differentiates
- The start-with-who framework: how to find your niche at the intersection of passion, expertise, and relational credibility
- How to write a pain portrait that stops the scroll in milliseconds
- Why your mission statement should be the last thing you write, not the first
- The three types of content engagement — and how leading with pain unlocks all three
- Real examples of advisors who transformed their copy from forgettable to magnetic

_ _
🔗 Listen to Beyond Referrals with Emily Armstrong → https://www.wonderlabstrategy.com/podcast
🔗 Learn more about Wonder Lab Strategy → wonderlabstrategy.com
🔗 Connect with Emily  → https://www.wonderlabstrategy.com/

SPEAKER_01

It's hard for an advisor to differentiate themselves. And that's really why I I stepped into the gap that I saw with that exact problem. Because I've known advi I've known I've been in this industry for about seven years. Um known a lot of different types of advisors, like, you know, the gritty hustlers kind of a couple years in. And then I've known the really big wigs running billion dollar plus firms. And it's kind of the same thing across the board. Like it's hard for them to know what makes them different and communicate that to their prospects and to their clients. Because if you think about it, the business, and this is kind of true across other client service sectors, but um, we'll stick to finance financial advisors. The service you're providing is the same service that your competitors are providing. Totally. So, how do you differentiate off of that? And I see them differentiating off of things like relationships, like, oh, you know, we we have really good relationships with our clients. And that's true. Your clients absolutely value the relationships they have with you, but that's still not a competitive advantage. And they've just not really been given the I think it's like a gap of just what does marketing look like for this industry, for this type of professional. It doesn't look like what you think it looks like. And I think that's where, like, that is where I spend 90 plus percent of my time is the identity architecture of an advisor as a professional because it's really like it doesn't exist.

SPEAKER_00

This is the afternoon advisor, where we figure out why and how certain advisors are growing so fast, it looks like magic. I'm Nate Hoskin. I'm a digital marketing nerd and a financial planner, and I spend my days building and breaking growth systems in my own businesses and in yours. Today I'm joined by Emily Armstrong. Thank you so much for coming out. She is the founder of Wonder Lab Strategy, the host of Beyond Her Furals, and the mom of Two Littles. I asked her about her superpowers, and I really, really liked the answer because it is speed and naive confidence. I feel like that's just the entrepreneur soup. You need some combination of a God complex, complete self-doubt, and a little bit of impulse control. And if you put all of those things together, you get the crazy type of life that both of us are lucky enough to lead. Emily, good afternoon.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you so much. I love coming over here.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, and we absolutely love having you. So I heard just before the show that your nickname is Lightning McQueen, which is it's true. So how did that come about?

SPEAKER_01

So I've been working with a coach who's known me for longer than we've been working together in the coaching capacity. Um, I actually worked with her when I was the marketing director of my previous firm that I was at. And so she's also a coach, but I'm working together with her. And a week goes by and she's always like, So where are you at? What have you been doing? And I'm like, so I built a product. Um, I came up with a new business idea. I actually have a lead for that business. I I started a flower business, like, and she and I just take her on a ride. And so she started calling me Lightning and Queen, and we call each other Queen. So it just Oh, perfect. Yeah. It's like a multifaceted nickname. And I just, I don't know. I so have you ever heard of the working genius?

SPEAKER_00

I don't think so.

SPEAKER_01

So the working genius um is it's kind of like a personality meets like what is how does your personality show up in work and in team and in in your strengths? And there's basically six areas of genius, and it's kind of across this like innovation spectrum. Um, so these six areas, the idea is that you have two that are really strong, two that are you're competent in, but they're not your strengths, and two that are your weaknesses that you're not strong in. And um my two strengths are innovation and tenacity, which basically means, and I I really lack discernment. So I need to rely on other people for discernment. But with an IT strength, I have an idea and I go do it. I have an idea, I go do it. So by the time that most people are still thinking about their idea, I've already tested like five versions of it and I figured out what works and what doesn't work, and I already have another idea that I'm gonna go do because I just don't have that brain of like, I should really think about this. Now I've gotten better about that, but that's why I'm lightning queen.

SPEAKER_00

I love it. And there I think we would find that you and I would line up very similarly on that test. There's a little bit of sage content lore, which was right when we launched the app. I sent out a video of me in my basement at my whiteboard. And the whiteboard is covered. Every single inch is covered with all of my ideas, the entire go-to-market for the entire app. Love. And everyone, everyone at the company was just sending pictures of uh, I think it's Grant, what's the show? Oh, it's always sunny in Philadelphia. Always Sunny in Philadelphia. He's got like the cigarette in his hand and he has the wall of all the red connected lines. Have you seen that meme? I know, but I can picture it. Yes. So now like every time I have an idea, that innovative tenacity side where you're just like, we're gonna go do this right now. I will send out videos at my whiteboard and everything.

SPEAKER_01

I wonder what your working genius would be.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's a good question. What are the other four? Do you know them off the top of your head?

SPEAKER_01

So the acronym for it is Widget W-I-D-G-E-T. Those are the six geniuses. Um, W is Wonder, and those are the people that's like before innovation. So that's like the people who ask, why? You know, they kind of live in the clouds, like they're more philosophical, almost too visionary type of thing.

SPEAKER_00

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

So that's W. I is innovation. We're the idea people. We are just bursting with ideas. D is discernment. So those are the people who, when you have an idea, they can help you discern should we do this or not? Or they're they're good people to have in your life. My brother is a D, so I often will be like, what do you think of this? My husband is also really strong with discernment. So I lean on people for that where I'm weak, because that's one of my weakest. Yeah. G is galvanizing. So that's like, how do you rally people towards a goal, towards getting something done? So those are good, like cheerleaders, good organizers of people to move them to action.

SPEAKER_00

Chief of staff, like, okay.

SPEAKER_01

E is enablement. Again, super weak on enablement. My uh team member, she's the her strength is E. So I'm like, oh, perfect. Like, I need someone to enable. They they need leaders to tell them kind of what to do, and they really shine there. So that's E. And then T is tenacity. Those are the people who get shit done, um, follow up, like just kind of ruthlessly just finish things. Got it. So widget.

SPEAKER_00

So you would hire an enablement tenacious person who, like, given the right direction, will just break down walls to go and get it done. And you might want to have someone who's in that wonder zone to really guide the overall business, like, really understand what the big ideas we could achieve are. And then you need at least one person in there really heavy on discernment to be like, bad idea, we're not doing that, or good idea, let's double down.

SPEAKER_01

And everyone has like you guys should take it as a team. It'd be cool. Cause then you can really lean into, you know, there's certain tasks that drain you, right? Like, same here with me. And then you'll see that those are your probably weakest genius tasks. So you can kind of like lean into where you really light up and and see where other people light up and help empower them too. I like it though, because it's like personality meets work and teaming.

SPEAKER_00

Right. How do you actually take whoever you are and represent it in the work that you do? How do you think most advisors would fall in the widget framework?

SPEAKER_01

I'm trying to think back to um the advisors that I worked with, like in this context of working genius. You know, it's funny because they're kind of all over the board. There's different personalities. There's advisors who are more like like go-getters who love who love to like go out and and get business, and they have strengths of like uh yeah, like more people skills, I think.

SPEAKER_00

Yep.

SPEAKER_01

And then there's advisors who just hate that part of the business. And they would much rather, they're really strong in sitting in front of someone, advising them, breaking down really complex things, like with planning. And they love that. And they they would be happy to never like go to a networking event or find new business. Those are kind of like the main profiles I've seen, but it it's not like a one type of person makes a good advisor, in my experience, from all the people I know in this in this industry.

SPEAKER_00

I agree with you, and I think that I think tenacity is going to be a pretty similar theme across everyone. How they apply it, probably very different, but that grit, that willingness to really go and get it done. And then I think about it on the flip side, where I would want to hire an advisor that would probably have really high discernment, probably pretty high innovation. So maybe it's kind of a DI advisor somewhere in that range, and that tenacity to make sure that like I'm really being held to it. But um what was the what was the G galvanizing?

SPEAKER_01

Galvanizing.

SPEAKER_00

I would want that too. So there's kind of an interesting mix in there, but I think if I had to narrow it to the framework you gave, which is like two you're brilliant at, two you're competent at, two you're weak at, right? Yes. I would want the strengths to be discernment and galvanizing because I want you to figure out if I'm making a bad decision and then galvanize me to make the right one. Yeah. And then I would want innovation and tenacity to be the two that you're competent at. Like you're always gonna go get it done. You're always going to be coming up with cool, innovative ways for me to be better with my money. And then to some extent, enablement, but I don't want to be telling you how to do it, right? I want you to be able to take this and really run with it. And wonder sounds fine, but like it's not actually going to help me in my life, right? Like, I don't need you to be a visionary. I need you to be the person who can get me to do something. So when we work under that framework and we talk about how advisors communicate themselves right now in marketing, do you think there's any advisor who actually expresses those traits in their marketing? Have you ever thought about how you might apply the widget framework to how you communicate with potential clients?

SPEAKER_01

That's that's a really interesting question. You know, when you were talking, I was thinking in my head the e-enablement side is probably the a weak point for a lot of advisors because like they don't they get into the business for other reasons. Um but the main thing that I see is that it's it's hard for an advisor to differentiate themselves. And that's really why I I stepped into the gap that I saw with that exact problem. Because I've known advice I've known, I've been in this industry for about seven years. Um known a lot of different types of advisors, like you know, the gritty hustlers kind of a couple years in. And then I've known the really big wigs running billion-dollar plus firms. And it's kind of the same thing across the board. Like it's hard for them to know what makes them different and communicate that to their prospects and to their clients because if you think about it, the business, and this is kind of true across other client service sectors, but um, we'll stick to finance financial advisors. The service you're providing is the same service that your competitors are providing. Totally. So, how do you differentiate off of that? And I see them differentiating off of things like relationships, like, oh, you know, we we have really good relationships with our clients. And that's true. Your clients absolutely value the relationships they have with you, but that's still not a competitive advantage. And they've just not really been given the I think it's like a gap of just what does marketing look like for this industry, for this type of professional. It doesn't look like what you think it looks like. And I think that's where, like, that is where I spend 90 plus percent of my time is the identity architecture of an advisor as a professional because it's really like it doesn't exist.

SPEAKER_00

What does that look like? Like if I mean, I'm you could still call me an advisor, I guess. For sure. How would I go about establishing my identity and my differentiators? And I want to tie it back to the widget thing because that has me, that has me on like a light rail of like if I could tell someone clearly that I will galvanize them to do the right thing and tell them where they're screwing up, that language would differentiate me, even if the services didn't.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, I'll try to do that. Let me start by answering your question. So um considering that it's really difficult to differentiate in this industry, and what I've seen is most advisors when they go on that quest to maybe brand themselves or I don't know, like like really establish their identity, whether that's digitally or they're trying to figure out how to talk about themselves to their clients, they're starting at the 50-yard line. Or they're being asked the wrong questions by professionals like me, like marketing professionals helping them, starting at the 50-yard line. Meaning, what I mean by that is they're being asked questions like who do you serve? Who do you work with? What clients do you love best? Like, they need to be asked different questions at the one-yard line. And I'll I'll get into that. Um so in my when I went on this quest of how do I help advisors really like solve this problem. So it that journey for me started um, well, prior to me being in financial services, I was uh in big tech marketing. I work, worked for a Fortune 5 company. Um, I was like the person behind your Instagram ad. Like when that started kind of when that kind of started, like the digital targeting, um, that was the industry I was in. And I was also in innovation firms and marketing firms. I I got a lot of really cool experience. Hated corporate America, got pretty burnt out, just did not like the politics. It wasn't the right environment for me. So I came into finance because I loved the idea of working directly with people and not having all that bull junk of like corporate politics and just I want to help people, I want to own my own business one day. So that's kind of how I jumped into this. Um, I became an advisor, and then most recently I was a marketing director of a larger firm. That was a really good fit for me because it was kind of like all of my experience in one. And I was helping this firm do exactly this build a brand, build a firm brand, build advisor brands within the firm. And I started obsessing about this one problem of why is this so hard? Why, why are there so many like mediocre examples of this? Why does everyone sound the same? Like I'm tired of it. And so I studied a bunch of marketing frameworks outside of this industry. I studied personal branding frameworks, and out of this came my framework. And um it's really interesting because I think when advisors try to yeah, go on this quest of doing marketing or they're working with someone to do it, they start with a mission statement. And we've even been told that by great marketing professionals, right? Like Simon Senex, start with why. That was like a viral TED talk in the 90s, but it's still relevant. And that's good stuff, but it's wrong for advisors because I see people starting with why, meaning like, what is your mission statement? And it it all looks and sounds the same. Clarity and confidence, freedom, peace and freedom, security. And all those things are really good things, and it's it is important and it's valuable to your clients and to what you're doing. But that's like the tip of the iceberg. And so I started to really like flip that on its head, and I go, I don't want another, I don't want to produce more advisors like saying that, saying the same thing because it's it's undifferentiated, it's uncompetitive. And so I started, I I created my framework of start with who, and that's starting with your niche. And instead of asking advisors like, who is your niche? I help them find it. And I know this is something I've talked to you about and and worked with your advisors on, but um, your niche is the intersection of your passion and expertise. So that's the word that, okay, this is where we tie in working genius widget. So those things that that you just like totally nerd out about and light up about, maybe that's a certain problem. So maybe you love working with business owners and like really complex liquidity transitioning, you know, succession planning, things like that. Maybe you love working with pre-retirees, thinking about, you know, turning their assets into a distribution plan. Like if you think about it, it's pretty easy to answer those questions. What is my favorite problem to solve? Passion and expertise. You pair that with the second part of a niche, which is your relational connections. So, what are the circles of people and the types of people and the rooms that I have credibility with that I could just call someone and they would pick up and take a meeting with me because it's me. And there's you're gonna start to see pockets of those types of people, or you go build them yourself, right? Um, and then the last part is a market need. So, where is there a gap in the market where your services and your planning can really exist there? So the framework starts with that. And what's so so cool in what I've seen with advisors I'm working with, we start there, we spend a lot of time there. And then every single thing about an advisor's personal brand gets easily clarified after they clarify their niche and start with their niche. And it's others focused. Like we talked about this on my podcast last week, where um it's counterintuitive because you think a personal brand is all about you, but it's actually all about who you're serving.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Well, and I think that's why so many people are like, I don't want to be, I don't want to be that guy or that gal who just goes out and like has a personal brand and markets myself. It's because they're on that track of saying, this is all about me. I don't want to be like me, me, me. I have never felt that way in building a personal brand. It has always been how can I help and serve other people and what might they need from me that I can provide? And in doing so, right, like in saying those things and sharing that value, the personal brand is almost like a byproduct of it, where people associate you with the smart things that you say or the things that you share, or the ways that you've helped them. And it, you're right, it's absolutely flipped on its head. How does that differentiate from saying, like, I work with doctors? How might someone who goes through that process and starts with who, how might they arrive at a different niche, or like what would that other niche be compared to just optometrists?

SPEAKER_01

Sure. So um I think what makes a really strong, like what takes that from I work with doctors to something more that creates more curiosity for the people that you want to work with is the pain point. And you really build out um, there's like a lot of nuance that goes into a niche. Uh it's it's that part, so like the the demographics of of the type of person. But then you have to immediately so the way that it's just it just is right now, with thanks to technology and what I did in my previous job of like targeting and just all the information, right? Like you have to create curiosity so fast. So fast. And so, in order to do that, so what what makes something from like to like okay, I'm listening. And you have to do that in a matter of literally milliseconds, is that pain point, and it has to be immediately relatable to that person. And so you might not find that you like take a total left turn working with some other, like totally other group or other niche, but you might just find that like it you go from I work with doctors to like something more compelling. And you can put that in your headlines, you can put that in your marketing copy, like, and it does stop the scroll because it's like, oh shit, that's me.

SPEAKER_00

Yep. Right. What do I identify with? Like, do they necessarily identify as a doctor? Like I al I feel like I always see that with advisors where they will name their demographic in a way that that person would never relate to, right? Like I work with someone who's high net worth. Well, most people who are high net worth probably don't even think they're high net worth because they're looking above them at the people in private jets and that kind of thing. They're like, no, I'm not even close. I'm not high net worth. But the way we have it like kind of striated out as advisors is very clear to us. It's just not clear to them. When I was building my business, I landed on the term Henry's, right? High earner, not rich yet. And that resonated exceptionally well. But I would try to define it. So for example, I would say, I work with Henry's, meaning you make more than $150,000 a year and you have less than $500,000 invested. And what I didn't know at the time was that my marketing was actually seriously limiting me. Because that meant that thankfully Henry is something that they related with and they self-selected into. But only the people that I named, $150,000, less than $500,000 invested, really clicked. So it was at some point, not really on purpose, frankly, just in a change to my copy. I removed those line items and I just said Henry, higher earner not rich yet. And I started getting these clients who made like $500,000 a year, a million a year, and had $2 million invested at the age of 35. And they still classified themselves as a higher under not rich yet, because that was how they felt, right? So that was me making a mistake and trying to shoehorn them into my definition. But we were able to serve them unbelievably well. And I think that all brings it back to something that you taught me. And you showed me originally a Venn diagram of your niche, right? And the way that I extracted that or the way that I heard it is that your niche isn't a person, it's a Venn diagram of problems. Problems that you are very, very good at solving. So you might be an advisor who is exceptional at solving the uh like the corporate planning or the business planning side of things. So you're really good at self-employed retirement. You're really good at establishing 401k plans, you're really good at helping people navigate benefits, that kind of thing for your business owner clients. Well, that doesn't necessarily mean you just work with business owners because you might find that there's a whole swath of tech employees who are also moonlighting with a side hustle. But that side hustle makes 100 grand a year. And you can contribute to a SEP IRA and a 401k, and those can be totally separate. So you might save them, I don't know, $3,500 in taxes by taking that problem you can solve and applying it to other people who have that problem. But if your marketing says, I work with business owners, you're not gonna find those people, right? You're gonna you have to start with that pain, you have to start with that problem that they're experiencing. So do you find that when someone changes that framework and they go from I work with X to I started with who, do you find that they get different clients?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, the results are different. And it's this is really an art. Like I'm thinking about the clients I'm working with right now and and how like I what's the word? Like how nuanced it is.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Because and what's really exciting about this work, and I this is my favorite part about it, is you can choose whoever and whatever you want. There's no wrong answer. It's like you will get what you put out there. And the the better you can relate and define, the more you're gonna get. You're the more clients you're gonna get from that niche, and the better you can articulate their problem through marketing, content marketing, the more you're gonna get of that specific person. So it's it's really an art. Um, like I just worked with a client who wants to niche in sustainable investing, and that's that's pretty broad, but that's still like very specific. Worked with another client who wants big law associates at like a very specific point in their career, that's very specific. So it's really exciting because it can be what you want. But I just think that today, because of how much content there is out there and how much I don't even want to say noise, but there's just so much information. And the more specific I like you will be rewarded for specificity. That's what I just see again and again and again. This is even from personal experience. Like when I started Wonder Lab, there was kind of two problems that I had a lot of expertise in. One was with this, what I what you see me doing, advisors, personal branding, differentiation. That was a sweet spot. I have another sweet spot that I'm not really talking about right now because I'm going all in on this area. My other sweet spot is uh firms who are building an enduring brand outside, they're kind of moving from that founder or that advisor to a founder operating an entity. Yeah. Because that's a whole journey.

SPEAKER_00

Enterprise.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. Like, and and like bringing people into that. I specialize there, but I'm not really going in all in on that because it it takes focus away from this and it takes results away from this. So I do, and I think the biggest hesitation I see advisors having with this is the fear of doing it. The fear of niching, it's scary. We've talked about this. Um, but the more specific that I've gotten, I've just only gotten more results. And so I think that's probably the biggest hurdle that advisors face because they, you know, you work with like a subset of clients. And to your point, like maybe a certain problem across different categories. But the more specific you can be, whether that's in the problem you're solving or with the person you're working with, or with a life stage or whatever, like the more success you're gonna have when it when you're trying to do any sort of marketing or growth because that's just the world we're in. It's like that's just we can't change that beast.

SPEAKER_00

I agree. And I think that having a niche does matter, but it's easy to in many ways, it's kind of easy to do it wrong. So, one of my favorite examples of this is that one of the advisors that we work with, their niche are pre-retirees between the ages of 50 and 65. Which on the surface, you're like, really? Right. You and every other advisor ever. That doesn't that doesn't count, right? That is not a niche. But the way they frame it on their website and in all their marketing is really awesome, which is like we work with people between the ages of 50 and 65 because we solve these five problems. And it really ends up being like social security, retirement, tax overhang with uh tax-deferred accounts, that kind of thing, and a couple of other problems. And the way they frame those problems is so poignant and so specific that people look at it and they say, Oh, I am experiencing that problem actively. I am asking those questions. That's why I'm here on YouTube, is because I want to understand what mistakes I'm going to make with Medicare or with Social Security claiming or something along those lines. And so that was such a good example for me of saying, like, all of the all the best advice we've heard from the best marketers is that you should go deeper into a single persona. You should design your ICP, right? They don't really have an ICP. Yeah. They just have a select number of problems that can be solved for a vast swath of people. And they add somewhere between $50 and $100 million in new AUM a year, going against that like start with why approach. And I just I thought that was so interesting from a niching perspective. So, what's your take on that? Because I know that with niches, it's it's kind of hard to define how we actually feel about them. What would you say to that advisor that has what we would consider to be a broad, non-defined niche?

SPEAKER_01

I always so I work with a like a hand, I'm thinking of two clients I'm working with right now who are like pre-retire, actually three, pre-retiree, and I'm like, all right, let's try to specify that. So I think that's obviously a legit category. Right. It's huge, it's relevant, and it's great planning can be done there. But I don't want you to be another undifferentiated advisor saying I work with pre-retirees. So, how do we specify this a little bit? One example from a client I'm working with, he is younger, you know, young 30s, maybe late 20s. Um, and I'm like, can you take the intergenerational angle there? Can you say, I specialize in pre-retirees who want to pass their wealth to their kids in the most efficient way possible because you have that competitive advantage of being younger. So that's like one angle. Another angle is um from another client in that niche. Um, it's his copy is all around. I work with pre-retirees who've outgrown accumulation only advice from their investment advisor. And I'm like, that's a niche right there, right?

SPEAKER_00

But that's a lot of big words.

SPEAKER_01

Well, it's like like if you've had an advisor who who's helped you build your portfolio and you're kind of feeling like you've outgrown that advisor, totally. That's like a certain pain at a specific point of time point in time. So that's another example. But I do always try to get them to be more specific. And there's a lot of different ways to do so. Like in your example, I really like that too. These five problems, boom. And like that's obviously working for him or her. Right.

SPEAKER_00

How okay, let's language that because I love that niche. This idea of working with people who have outgrown the accumulation only advice of their existing advisor. That's a horrible website headline. How would we say that? How would we say that in a way that makes it really poignant and really understandable to someone who would be reading it on a website or seeing it in a video?

SPEAKER_01

You have so this is where I'm like such a nerd in this specific area of how do you take copy and or positioning and make that so relevant in a matter of milliseconds? So I would so you always have to like, are you familiar with story brand? Yes. Yeah. So so I love that philosophy. I that's ingrained in all of my frameworks. Um, but you do have to think of it as like, okay, what is someone gonna understand? So for that specific, like if we're just riffing here, turning that into a website headline, um it might be something like you feel like you've outgrown your grow your portfolio and do this, and you don't know what to do next. Like this is where we meet you. So so you meet them in that initial thought. Like, what's the thought on the surface? And then you go deeper and deeper and deeper. And that's where that's where they can really resonate. So I think I would just make it simple and and try to like this is what I do with my clients. I'm like, what's the surface pain? Yeah. So here's another example. In my um my client working with big law attorneys, so he had originally come up with like some like three layers deep problem. And I'm like, okay, we need to take this up. Right. So what we came up with him for like a LinkedIn headline was um like you make high income and you've you feel like uh wait, I'm trying to remember what it is. It's you've outgrown default financial advice, like max out your 401k and save in cash, but you don't have the time to rethink your whole strategy. And that's like an initial pain where they're like, I do feel like I've kind of outgrown this good advice, and I don't have time to rethink this. Yeah. So that's that's an example of making it so searchable. Right.

SPEAKER_00

Because then it's yeah, they it also plays into that sense that they're having, which is like, I am no longer the default. Like all these things that would apply to maybe mass affluent, like it doesn't really apply to me anymore. I have new problems, right? So, like that's kind of how I think about it is I have new problems that my current advisor isn't solving.

SPEAKER_01

Boom.

SPEAKER_00

So there you go. That's the copy. Yeah. And you're they don't even necessarily have to know those problems, right? They might really be almost like a like a brain feel, like a vibration in the back of their head of like, I'm sensing this, but I wouldn't quite be able to put it to words myself. It's like, yeah, well, your life just got more complicated and your advisor didn't keep up.

SPEAKER_01

And you're like, that's good copyright there. Right?

SPEAKER_00

Like, that's exactly how I feel. I don't, I couldn't really tell you why, but it was just a change in the conversations where I would ask my advisor a question and they'd be like, let me get back to you on that one. And then I wouldn't get a follow-up, right? I felt like they didn't have the answer and I didn't need it off the jump, but I wanted them to be able to kind of level up with me. And suddenly I feel like that's not happening. Maybe I am outgrowing them, maybe I am in need of an additional service or something along those lines. And then you can start to play the whole marketing game with it, where it's like your call to action is just get a second opinion. No, no strings. You don't have to work with us. Just get a second opinion on your plan and see if there's any additional value that we might be able to add. And you're able to say, you're right, you did outgrow your advisor. Like now you're making a million dollars a year, and you have already maxed your 401k and you've saved into your HSA, you've done your taxable brokerage contributions, and there should be more, right? There should be other ways that you can solve for fewer taxes and you can solve for greater growth on your portfolio, that kind of thing. Like that's that's brilliant, right? And it, you're so right that it comes back to the problem that they're experiencing because it would be so easy to just be like, well, I work with lawyers. That's it. That's all I do, right? And the lawyers wouldn't engage because they don't like being direct sold to their lawyers. Yeah. And then everyone else would scroll because they don't there, it's not for them, right? They've already been not even self-selected, they've just been selected out of that entire process. But if you start with the problem, then you have curiosity peaking.

SPEAKER_01

You're like, oh, what you just did was the pain portrait. And I know I've shared like, so that's the second part of a personal brand framework is once you define your niche and the problem you're solving and who you're solving it for and like where you're playing, you get into the pain. And you just did that, like on the fly. And that's what makes really strong marketing copy and really strong attraction uh marketing.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And it does such an amazing thing when it comes to content marketing, which is that with content of any sort, like obviously we talk video all the time, but also with blogs and that sort of thing, you run the risk of your niche reducing your top line engagement. And at the end of the day, you you kind of need views, right? You need clicks, you need all of these things, you need a certain level of saturation and traction to be able to make the law of small numbers work, to get those 1% conversion rates and that sort of thing that actually make the whole machine spin. And so if you start a video for this example and say, big lawyers, you should listen to this, it's like, well, okay, 99% are gonna scroll because they're not big lawyers. 1% are gonna scroll because they are and they don't want to be sold to, right? Yes, yes. So if you start your content with curiosity, what you achieve is three different types of engagement. So you have entertainment or inspiration, which is like, this is just cool. Like I don't like things. Right. I'm never gonna buy a Ferrari. I'm not gonna like, I'm never gonna have five million dollars, or I don't think I'm gonna have five million dollars, but it's a cool concept, right? Then there's aspiration, which is I'm gonna do this. I'm just not there yet, right? Save, share, put it in my folder, like remember that for when this does become poignant for me. And then you have education, which is this is directly applicable to me right now. That's generally what advisors are trying to do with their content, right? They're trying to just educate the right person. But by doing so, they're getting rid of all of these other people who might be great leads later or who might share their content or who might just provide enough algorithmic momentum to put it in front of more people who would be educated by that content. So by shifting from person to pain, you also give two whole groups of people the opportunity to watch and gain value from your content, even if it wasn't exactly the value that you were planning to share, right? So when we think about that from a personal brand perspective.

SPEAKER_01

You're teaching me right now.

SPEAKER_00

Like I want to ask you questions. Well, you got to do that. I'm like, let's switch this up. Well, luckily we already did, and we have two podcast episodes.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, shameless plug, go listen to the Beyond Referrals episode with Nate. It's fantastic.

SPEAKER_00

We had so much fun. And that means we get to do a little bit of both here. Yeah. So if we pull this all the way back to personal brand, right? So that first stage was starting with who? Who's your niche, right? The next one was the pain portrait. What's next?

SPEAKER_01

Uh then it is, it's it comes back more to you. It's your values, your mission, and your story.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, so now we're at the 50-yard line. Got it. Okay.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

How does that how does that mission statement change? When yeah, when someone starts at the one yard line, like I'm trying to think of like I think the last time I genuinely wrote a mission statement was like in college in a business class. So yeah. I might be a little rusty at this, but let's Well, I think you have your mission statement.

SPEAKER_01

Build trust at scale.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, build trust at scale. That's a mission at all. Help advisors build trust at scale. Absolutely. And then, I mean, my personal mission statement is that I'm gonna help a million people become more financially secure, right? Like that's that's my mission. Um, but I think generally we would see a mission statement, which is like, uh, I'm going to help people live a life of clarity and affluence without the guilt of being wealthy or something like that. Like, I don't know, maybe that was a little too on the nose. But how would that shift as they start with who, as they understand the pain portrait?

SPEAKER_01

It's that that's I love that you asked that question because it changes so much. You'd be surprised. Um, so I'll give you like a couple real life examples. Um, one client I was working with, the their mission statement was like plan with confidence, grow plan with clarity, grow with confidence. Like, okay, not bad. You know?

SPEAKER_00

I've seen that. I wouldn't be able to name the advisor, but I feel like I've I feel like I've seen that website. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Copy paste anywhere. And like those are like it's not bad, but it's just it doesn't hit, right? You want a mission statement to hit. And so we went through the whole exercise. Um, this is my my client who works with the big law attorneys, but his mission statement coming out of that, and like it it aligns with his values of he's very strongly um object objective. Like there is data, there is objectivity, there is an objective right and wrong decision in your best interest. So that was like a really strong thing for him. Um and like that fiduciary like side of him working with his clients. So coming out of that, his mission statement came to be do what's right, not what's easy. And you can see that's more aspirational, that's more legit for him. Yeah. And that's like the types of clients he wants to attract. He wants to attract clients who don't want shortcuts, who don't want, you know, they who they want and they really care about doing the right thing in in the legal field. So that's one example. Another example, I was working with a client who niched in sustainable investing, and their the whole pain portrait for that type of person was like you have people in CSR or just environmentalists or in environmentally adjacent industries, and they know too much. Like they just they feel this tension every time they eat meat or every time they order something on Amazon, and they care their values and they care deeply about sustainability and protecting the environment. But then, like, how do you do that in today's world? Do you just go freaking live on a farm and like source all your own food with a few other friends who are gonna do the same thing?

SPEAKER_00

Don't tempt me.

SPEAKER_01

Like, I'm about there. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I'm gonna, I'm like four days away from chickens.

SPEAKER_01

So you are. Are you in sourdough? Did you start with sourdough?

SPEAKER_00

No, I'm gluten-free. Otherwise, I probably would have.

SPEAKER_01

That is the gateway drug to like the homestead life. So you're about there. Yeah, you're gonna, you're gonna be there in no time. But um so so that's the pain portrait of a person like that. And I don't think he even had a mission statement. And if you did, it was something like freedom for all, like pre-retirees, but then coming out of this exercise, it was invest in what you believe in. Yeah. And make it so that you don't have this con like you can and and should build wealth and not have this conflict of your everyday life and of your portfolio. Yeah. So you can see how those are two examples that are strong and they actually mean something. And it's not like just the willy dilly. I'm gonna slap this on my like website or something.

SPEAKER_00

I love that you're sitting on like the visionary level of this because I'm just like writing copy on the back side of my forehead right now. I'm just like like prove a riff session. Prove your retirement beyond a reasonable doubt. Like I want, I want to write copy for the lawyer, like thinking about. I mean, I feel like the uh to your point, the sustainability side feels so easy to market if done well, and so contrived if done poorly. Because my emotion is like, I might not be able to stop the world from ending, but I don't want it to be my fault. So I'm gonna invest in what I believe in. Like, if that was my headline, if I saw that, I'd be like, yeah, pretty much. Like you would feel seen. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

You would feel immediately seen and you would feel immediately curious.

SPEAKER_00

I agree. I think it's such a great exercise for any advisor to go through of like what am I actually solving here? Like listening to clients or however it is that you gather that information. It's like, I know I do a bunch of things in my day-to-day, but what does someone actually experience? Right. Like I we have that all the time when we have people out to this studio where we do, I mean, we have five team members working on the project for them and doing everything, like really making it as bespoke as we possibly can. And we ask them, we're like, okay, what was your favorite part? And they're like, I just love that I could come out to the studio and film for three days and now I'm done. That was it.

SPEAKER_01

They're like such a white club service. That was the piece.

SPEAKER_00

And I was like, okay, like, yes, you're right that all the problems that I thought we were solving were in there. But really, the the main value was this speed of delivery. It's like I showed up and a month later I was in the studio and then I was done.

SPEAKER_01

You're saving their brain space.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. That's huge. And when we learned that, we totally changed the way that we marketed, the way that we wrote our copy, because it was like it was just white glove service, right? Fully done for you, those types of words. And you're right in the same framework that advisors usually have, where it's like, this is holistic, this is bespoke, right? This is this is all under one roof. All of those things that we've heard over and over. But when you hear white glove, you're like, okay, are you my valet? Like, what are we doing? What are we doing here? And so we had to move it towards like, you will be done with your videos in 45 days. And you will, you won't have to worry about this again for the next year, right? Like that adjustment because we understood the pain. The pain wasn't, the pain wasn't them scripting. Maybe that is a problem, but it wasn't a problem they acknowledged, right? It was that third layer problem.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. What's the first layer problem?

SPEAKER_00

I don't have time, right? Exactly. I don't have room to do this. Okay. So we got to the mission statement. What else do we have? What's ahead of us? Are we at the 75 yard line? Are we at the 80? Where we sit?

SPEAKER_01

65, 70.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. What's next?

SPEAKER_01

So what's really cool is the farther along you get in this framework. So the first, the the niche and the pain portrait are super meaty. And then the rest kind of just clarifies. And it's really, really cool to see how that happens because it's a sequential process.

SPEAKER_00

Like snowballs. Uh-huh. Totally.

SPEAKER_01

And so the next part is really your values and your story. And um another part of what I love to do is help an advisor see how, see their through line, like what you talked about last week on my podcast. Um so when an advisor comes to me, they might feel really fragmented. Like, I ended up in this niche and I don't really even know how. And I don't know if I can really like be an expert here. And then I'm like, okay, let's hear your story. And I can see I can see things that they can't see. Like the experiences that shape them to make them the credible person for this niche, or why their values led them here, why they should pursue this. And that's a really important part because going back to story brand framework, you as the advisor are the guide. So you need to show your human side. You need to show your empathy and your authority and why that niche should trust you as their advisor. So it's a very important part. Um, and the values and the mission and the story, like there's art to it, but you don't start there, you finish there. And it's easier once you do the hard work of niching and really getting into their world. It positions you in their world and their pain. Right.

SPEAKER_00

And then you're always working from that perspective. You're always looking at it through that lens. It's like, well, now that I've built the lens, I can just direct it at whatever I'm working on. I'm writing content, I'm working on my website, I'm doing everything, right? It's like, well, now that I've now that I'm looking at it through their eyes, it kind of answers itself, right? It feels so straightforward.

SPEAKER_01

And then when you go to build website copy or content or whatever, it's like easy.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Easy.

SPEAKER_01

You don't go like, what should I say? You're like, I have so many ideas.

SPEAKER_00

Right. I'm never going to run out of ideas. I'm just gonna run out of the time to put them to paper. Yeah. Last question of today. But we have talked so much about the frameworks of branding, and you are the mom of two littles. What's your mom brand?

SPEAKER_01

So I uh maybe maybe give me your perspective or or I I invite this as an open-ended thing. I've I actually think through. But so my time is so fragmented, um, my focus is so fragmented that like the energy I'm putting out in the world is like Wonder Lab, Emily. Like this, like what I'm doing. And then there's a whole side of me. I would argue the tr the most true side of me and the the truest part of me and the deepest part of me that I don't really like publicize as much. Um, but my mom brand, what I have wanted, like in my personal vision statement work, I want to be like it sounds silly to say it out loud, but I want to be like a fun princess mommy.

SPEAKER_00

I love it. You're gonna be lightning McQueen.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, like I want my boys, I have two boys, so I want them to like I bring magic into everyday things. So like we're going to Costco. Okay, we're we're getting a hot dog, we're getting a treat, we are making this fun. Like, I am gonna push you down the aisles and like be a silly with you. I just want to bring magic and fun into every day. And I want to nurture like nurturing and love and and physical touch with them, like hugging, and I just think that's important too. I want to play with them. Like, so this is a funny story. A lot of moms or parents you see at the park, they're just kind of checked out, like watching their kids on their phones. It freaking drives me nuts. Oh my god. I won't even get started because you'll have me here for like 45 more minutes. But I I'm really conscious of that. When I'm with my kids, I'm with them. My phone's away and I'm playing with them. So I went to the park with Adger, my three-year-old, a couple weeks ago. We were at the park for like two and a half hours, and I had three kids. We like made a football team. We were jumping. I helped one little boy who spoke no English, like increase his confidence from like jumping off of a little ledge because he would only jump like this high. And I'm like, come on, Abby. He was like this overweight kid. He was so sweet. And like he was jumping off the highest thing at the end. And I would like, so that's the kind of mom I want to be. I want to be fully present. I want to be fun. I want to be loving. And I don't really show the world that side of me as much. So I've I've been wondering, like, should I do that? That takes energy though.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So we'll see. I do have a whole idea. Like Lightning McQueen is cooking up something in this kitchen, like for um women who are moms who want to take their experience and work for themselves more flexibly, because that's what I've done. And it's like, I think more moms can do that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Well, and I think it's, I don't necessarily think it needs to be public at all. Because the way that I frame this question in my own head is like, what is my mom's brand? Because we think about all these contrived elements of a brand. Like the easiest example is Coca-Cola, right? Drink a Coca-Cola, say ah, have a good experience. So that next time when you experience thirst, experience the problem, you go to the Coca-Cola, right? So it's all about that.

SPEAKER_01

I don't even like Coke, but I want one right now. Exactly, right. It's like that sounds delicious.

SPEAKER_00

And so there is this obvious like input-output response that happens with a brand. And our interactions with our parents are brands without logos, right? So putting yourself next to the play and the experience and that sort of thing will naturally cause them to associate you with all of those things, right? Like I associate my parents very much with travel and exploration. That's so much of what we did when I was younger. And so I'm hearing them in my head and I'm taking their advice when I'm traveling, even to this day. But I also have elements of their brand that are like, well, they're very much like me. The apple did not far fall far from the tree. And they were gone until like 7 p.m. Like a babysitter would come and pick us up from school, type of thing. And like they would work those late nights. My parents would pull all nighters to get all of their work done so that we could go fly across the nation or go do something crazy, right? All of those create this feeling that you have an association with that person. Whether or not you were to publicize that to your kids, you will always have a personal brand, right?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

They won't, there won't be a mom logo unless you put together a Lightning McQueen logo, which I encourage you to do so.

SPEAKER_01

So we're gonna do that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But they will always have that association. And something that fascinates me so much about branding is that because we have a logo and we have all of these things that we can point to, it ends up feeling far less personal. And we spend far less time wondering how is someone going to feel or how is someone going to think of me when I'm not there? We think about that all the time. I'm sure you think about that quite often as a model. All the time, like literally all the time. Yeah. That's what I want to apply to branding more is like if I'm not here, like what happens if I'm gone? What do they experience? What do they remember? What are those feelings that they associate with me? And that has completely changed the way that I approach branding and brand voice and that type of thing.

SPEAKER_01

And that's why it matters. That's that's the point. Yeah, this is fun. I feel like we could talk so long about all of that.

SPEAKER_00

Well, we'll just have you back for more episodes or we'll do more podcast swaps, whatever it takes. This was such a pleasure, Emily. Thank you so much for being here.

SPEAKER_01

I really enjoyed it.