Leading Across Difference with Will Krause | Ep. 9

In this episode with Will Krause, we explore what happens when we we start to recognize the water we’re swimming in. What happens when we begin asking:
What blind spots do I have?
Who’s missing from my life?
What perspectives am I not hearing?

Cultural competency isn’t a destination. It’s a lifelong pursuit. Growth starts with humility. And often, it starts by recognizing how much we still have to learn.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:03

From the block to the boardroom, from the pulpit to the pew, the CQ podcast exists to help you raise good cultural fluency by disgusting how culture touches everything from a Christian worldview. Just like a fish swims in water, we swim in culture. Today we're swimming with the Will Krause, ladies and gentlemen. Hey. How are we doing, Will Krause? I am so excited to be here. Man, I'm so excited to have you. Longtime friend. Um, and uh, but I'm especially excited to have him on the pod today as we're talking about uh learning and leading cross-culturally. Uh Will Krause is not only a friend of the podcast, he is on the board of the CQ initiative. Uh, but it didn't start there. Our relationship started long before that when we we knew each other at college a little bit, but really serving in high school ministry together. That's right. And if you serve in high school ministry, you understand that like you become tight as you try to love these high schoolers.

SPEAKER_00 0:58

It's a hard thing.

SPEAKER_01 0:59

It is hard. They're hard to love sometimes, uh-huh, but they're also a lot of fun. And it was that was a cross-cultural experience for us too. Yes. Governor School of Arts and Humanities, yes, which was new, I think, to both of us initially. Uh, but yeah, served in student ministry together. Uh, the claim to fame is uh he was my boss at one point when I did a little stint at Booster Thon, which is where he is now. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:18

How long have you been at Boosterathon? I am finishing my 15th school year. Dang. Yep. It's been a it's been it was my first job out of college. Um and it's been uh incredible journey, very meaningful. And I've learned a lot, even about the word culture there at Booster Thon.

SPEAKER_01 1:33

Yeah, y'all talk about culture a lot.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

We do talk about not always quite the same way, not the same way. But if you define culture as like the water we swim in, yeah, they care a lot about the water that their employees are swimming in at Booster. Um and there's a lot of in intentionality, I would say, to the culture. Um, but there's also blind spots and gaps. And I honestly have uh high hopes for for CQ to be helping them think through culture through a full more full lens one day.

SPEAKER_01 1:59

Praise. And yeah, so you've gone through a lot of different leadership transitions there, but I know you're the general manager of the Carolinas. You've also served uh as an elder at Gray City Church for over seven years because you're on your sabbatical. I am. We've called you from the sabbatical at Grey City, but you still involve the CQ. That's right. And uh has decided to come bless us today a little bit with conversation on again learning and leading cross-culturally. And I've been, just to shout you out, I have been really encouraged just as a brother and friend over the years to see not only your growth, but the way that you were an advocate, the way you use your voice in different spaces, the way that you use like skills you had learned, I think, to make places more healthy, more vibrant, uh, really reflecting God's vision of the kingdom. But in a way that I think just to be plain, sometimes white men wouldn't use their voice that way in that space. And as a black man, I've been deeply encouraged. And then we've had lots of conversations over the years too, yeah, about things, working through stuff. And so I think it's gonna be a good conversation.

SPEAKER_00 2:56

Well, I'm excited. The the rest in the sabbatical has been amazing. Um, but this was an easy, this doesn't even feel like work to get to come and obviously have time with you to have good, honest conversations. I'm so excited about CQ and uh it's it's launching and growing and and what God is gonna do with it. I think it's gonna have honestly a big impact in the world, and it's an honor to be on the board for sure.

SPEAKER_01 3:19

So uh I'm gonna read a verse and then I want to ask you just even what made you decide to be a part of the CQ initiative, the board. Yep. But this is from Philippians chapter two, and as we talk about again learning and leading, I think coming from a place of humility, one of our values is cultural humility as the CQ initiative, and ain't no better example than Philippians chapter two, where it it says, in your relationships with one another, you should have the same mindset as Christ Jesus, who being in the very nature of God, did not consider equality with God as something to be used for his own advantage. Rather, he made himself nothing by taking on the very nature of a servant and being made in human likeness and being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death and even death on a cross. And one of the things I love is just Jesus with his authority, with his power, being in the very nature of God, decided to say, Hey, I'm gonna, I'm gonna give that up to benefit of the people. Yeah. And I think any, I had I there was a cultural consultant who talked to our staff recently, and she was making some great points, but she was talking about like the the exchange rate of culture. Yeah. And that we're all as we come from different cultures, we're all exchanged, like we there's an exchange rate. Yeah. How many pesos versus dollars versus pounds? Yeah. Like what is the exchange rate and how much my expense might be different than yours. But either way, we're all paying something. Right. And just understanding, yeah, it does cost something to come with a level of humility.

SPEAKER_00 4:44

So every relationship, too, you know. It is. I mean, because every every relationship, there is a there can be a uh a diversity in the cultures that we come from. I haven't think about marriage, you know. Like I'm giving stuff up, you know, for for oneness. I'm giving stuff up to sacrifice, and so there's really no healthy relationship that doesn't require a level of humility, which is the ultimate example.

SPEAKER_01 5:07

And it's like when you're focused so much on what you're paying, oftentimes you miss out on really loving somebody else. Right. You're so concerned with like, hey, are you gonna pay me back? Yes, I think that impedes marriage, relationships, friendships, and cultural relationships. Absolutely. Um, all right. So tell me, why did you say yes to the board of CQ initiative? Like, what about culture or all that? Did you say yes?

SPEAKER_00 5:30

Well, I'm a fan of yours. I gotta say that. I'll just show my card. Um, I'm a fan of yours. I, you know, as I was hearing your vision for it, there was so much about CQ in that I just felt like this, this is this is in a way, like you're a great pastor and you you you lead our church very, very well, and I think you're very talented. But CQ specifically felt like this is your gift back to the world that I feel like God has equipped you um with a biblical lens, um, with real practical mentorship and guidance for I have personally benefited from a lot of the growth that you attribute to me um has come because of my relationship and because of your teaching and because of your mentorship in that area. Thanks, bro. And so um I wanted to be a part of it because I I I felt like one, I I could help. We've always had a good complimenting relationship um in terms of strengths. And so I start starting up. Start-up mode is is an area I enjoy. And uh um I felt like my my gifts could be helpful here, but also to be a part of the board that you were building around this just felt like what a gift. Um, I mean, as a as a as a white guy who who is trying to you know continue to grow in my cro cross-cultural competency to get a chance to have relationships, conversations, dialogue, constantly like this. I I have it's like once you start working out, that initial part may be hard, but then you kind of get addicted to it, or maybe you just want to keep going. Yeah, we can define working out, however, whatever that is, you know, a training for a thing or whatnot. Yeah, that's because yeah, we have different, we have different goals. Yeah, um, we have different goals there. But uh it's um yeah, cultural CQ in general for me has become something that I just want I want more and more of because I I I feel like I'm still in the early stages of um uh realizing its potential and impact in my life and the the board and this initiative, these conversations, I see them being so beneficial to so many other organizations and and and and and folks listening, but also myself. Yeah, I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_01 7:37

I feel gassed up and ready to go. Hey, there you go. It was all true. Yeah, and I think it's yeah, I heard you said before and we talk about a lot CQ. It's like people oftentimes assume and know we need IQ, like it's good to grow in intelligence and you know, intelligent quotient, EQ, you know, emotional quotient, capacity, but then CQ. So cultural quotient. And I'm curious what like your journey, if you could be because before you're a leader, you're a learner, yeah, like all of us. Yeah. But your journey to lead, where now I feel like you're a leader in that, like you can lead cult cross-culturally in ways that I'm very I admire. What what kind of was your journey though to get to get there? Uh feel free to start wherever, like certain cultural differences, things you had to work through to get to a place that you are today.

SPEAKER_00 8:21

Yep. Um, I'll jump into my story in a second, but I want to say what you put like the IQ versus the EQ versus the CQ. You can be the smartest cat in the room. You can be, you can have a lot of emotional intelligence and and awareness, but without CQ, you have so many blind spots. Uh and I think blind spots has become one of my obsessions of like wanting to know what my blind spots are. Yeah. And why wouldn't everybody want to know what their blind spots are? Because if you think about the definition of a blind spot, it's there, you just don't know it's there. And that's kind of a scary thing. Yeah. There's this thing in my life about me, about my leadership, that other people see and know, but I have no idea it's there. Yeah. And I and I think there was a combination of the culture at Booster, which is also has a high leader development culture to it, just growing as a leader in general, um, is really highly emphasized there. Uh, plus starting to grow in my cultural competency through conversations with you and relationships and um that yeah, I I just realized um I just totally blanked right there.

SPEAKER_01 9:32

That's crazy. No, but it's good. I think what you're saying about blind spots, for example. That's right. Thank you. Blind spots. I like even what you said because it's like with the definition of a blind spot, it's like it's there, you don't see it. Right. But other people see it. Other people see it. Other people see your blind spots, and I think that's true culturally, is one of the things we talk about a lot is just even the idea that that I as I come in from a different cultural group, I see things even about you, your group might not see. That's right. You see things about me, my group might not see. Like my group might be prone to certain things. Yep. And because of that, group not only people, but groups can have blind spots. Right now, there's more variety and diversity within it, but groups can have blind spots. And that's one of the things I think we even learned as a church is like, yo, this group, these groups of people sometimes have propensities towards this, and that the same with that group. And so as we come together, yeah, the thing that's kind of sucks is like all of our blind spots, like all of our blind spots are being exposed. Right. Although it's but it's we need it. Yes, we need it.

SPEAKER_00 10:31

We need it. Well, and I think why I paused there even is because I started thinking about my story, which is part of it for me as well. So I grew up in terms of the water I was swimming in in a small rural town uh where there was a lot of diversity by the census, right? Like we had one elementary school, one middle school, one high school. There was no school choice, and there was no private schools, charter schools, like everybody, everybody was there together. But like MLK says, you know, Sunday was the most divided hour. That was true spiritually in our communities as well. But my eight to five job of going to school, we were all together. And I had there was a lot of Hispanic folk in our town, um, a lot of African-American, a lot of Haitian. Um, and so all my sports teams, all my uh classes, yeah, just the intimacy that I had in a in a in a diverse backdrop, um, I think in some ways planted some seeds in me for for future growth. But what was missing is I really didn't have a teacher or an instructor about how to make sense of that. It just I was just immersed in it, right, in in many ways. And um when I graduated, I went to a university that had very little diversity. And I didn't even realize that when I got there until I was reflecting on postgraduating, and I really did I didn't have any meaningful relationships with people of color. And what had changed? There was no intentional choice I made to exclude or uh yeah, be exclusive with a certain group. It just was the water I was swimming in at that time. And so I realized that I I didn't I didn't have I had not invested in my competency, I had just been immersed in it to start. But then when that when that backdrop changed, uh think things were different. And so um fast forward a few years to adult life in church and planting a church and a church that was aspiring to be multi-ethnic and be multi-economic and multi-generational, um, realizing that in order to uh be self-aware of the blind spots, you got you gotta actually commit to to growing, to having honest conversations and and and and recognizing that you know I I have my own culture. Yeah. Yeah. Uh that uh I think sometimes minimizing our own culture makes us damage other people's culture. Because we just don't realize that we bring we we think the water we swim in is everybody's water.

SPEAKER_01 12:54

Yeah. So what would you say to a white person who thinks, I don't and I don't know whether they say it that way or they feel like I don't really know what my culture is? Because you said like learning your culture was a part of growth. Yeah. In cross-cultural companies. So what would you say to somebody who who feels that way?

SPEAKER_00 13:11

Um well, I mean you have you have a culture, you know. Okay. So I think you got to do that. I rebuke you in the next one. Yeah, I just would correct it and be like, no, you do, you know, you we do have a culture. Like white folk, we have white people have culture, black people have culture, southerners have culture, Nolas have, you know, there's there's so many ways to splice the word culture. Um I think a funny illustration is like, let's say we spliced it by just personality, you know. I'm an Enneagram seven. If I was in a room or lived a life with only Enneagram sevens, be wild. We it'd be wild and fun, but we'd be dangerous. You would. Because back to blind spots, like we would we might be dead. We need some sixes. Um but shout out your wife more. Shout out my wife who is an Enneagram six. Love you, babe. Uh but without without the the diversity to call out the blind spots there, you know, we it would be you just don't, you don't, you gotta recognize you got a culture. That was what I would say. And I think in in our day and time with this conversation around race, white culture can be perceived or spoken about mostly negative. Okay. And I think not and it's not that it is, but I think maybe it's even sensitivity, white sensitivity sometimes to the conversation or defensiveness or whatnot, but we can maybe just think I don't want to speak for all white people, but I do think that no do it. I do think that um it can be easy to uh only think about the damage, you know, that majority culture, majority white culture maybe has done in this conversation um without just embracing like I have a culture and there are good things about that, and there are not good things about that.

SPEAKER_01 14:42

So I think that's a great point because I do think, you know, coming to the conversation around culture, a lot of people think, and and rightfully so, racial reconciliation. And the reason why it's reconciliation is because there has been an injustice done. Right. And the injustice is on a corporate uh historical level, right? Right like antebellum south, slavery, transatlantic slave system. Uh that that that has led us to the cultural space we're in. And so oftentimes when you start talking about racial reconciliation, I think rightly, but also I think you're probably offering a helpful um adjustment to where a lot of times it's like, okay, so this is like what white people need to own. Use is the baggage you're bringing, right? So you've done bad things. Black people, you've had bad things done to you. So now we got to come together, and that means lamenting over the bad things white people have done and honoring black people. But what can happen is then to your point, white people start to feel like, so I'm just everything is about me wrong and bad. Like, so how did you get to a place to go, yeah, I want to acknowledge the because some I feel like what can happen is some white people can go, I reject that. Right. Nothing was wrong. Yeah, so you took the whole conversation. I I completely reject that. And I want I want to be able to be proud, and it's almost like a rejecting of the past. And then other people can go to a place where like I'm despairing. Like I I it's like fragility, but but also just I I don't like where I come from. There's nothing good I can embrace. So how do you like walk that tension of those realities?

SPEAKER_00 16:10

I guess. Yeah, I think first thing that comes to mind is is to is to actually be curious about their story. Uh when you when you sit in another human's life and story for just a second, it's it's hard to not be maybe empathetic for what their their life, what they have felt or what what it's been like to walk in their shoes. And so I think just reminding ourselves that we are we are human and we come we come from our own story, and that story has its own brokenness in it. I think that's a that's a key ingredient. Um uh to to reconciliation and to to realizing that um uh there's there's brokenness that needs to be uh met with humility, but also um with curiosity too. Yeah. Um without without wit recognizing someone's story or where they've come from, it you almost can't have a fruitful conversation. And it can be so easy to throw the whole conversation out because you've you've kind of left a human element out of it.

SPEAKER_01 17:12

Yeah, so would that and would you also say for the person who's like, I don't really know if I have a culture or like I don't want to identify with it because it's bad, it's like almost curious about your own story. Yeah, and like also curious about yourself, curious about your history, your ancestry, the probably mixed bag. That's right. That's there. Because I think we all, like black person, white person, Asian person, Hispanic person, we all have a mixed bag. And the gospel can hold that. I think sometimes people can be dismissive of the negative as if the gospel can't hold the fact that you have sinners in your history. And it's like, yeah, and in yourself, right?

SPEAKER_00 17:46

Like I'm a sinner. We bring baggage into all of those things.

SPEAKER_01 17:50

That's the messy part. Yeah, yeah. It's like we do, and like the gospel's gotta be able to hold us when we fail and sin. And and then at the same time, there's the Imago Day that were made in the image of God, and so it's impossible for there to not be good in your ancestry, in your history, and there and even in a lot, even if a place is like really dark, there's light there too, um, even for non-Christians, because of God's common grace that's implanted them with again his image. And so it's like, oh, you got you got good stuff too. But it's on I think the journey of figuring out, well, what is it? Like how do I, how do I go? And I think we're such an individualistic culture too. And um and some some cultures and families even have different propensities towards looking at your history and embracing like what a grandma do, or like what a great grandma do, and who are they like, and how much does that mean? Like some people almost feel like we're an autonomous being, just if you know, what is it? Evap not evaporated. What's the what's the Harry Potter you don't know the Harry Potter term? Nah, sorry, I'm not Harry Potter. Not teleported. I can't remember.

SPEAKER_00 19:02

Yeah. Um I think another yeah key ingredient um uh is uh just recognize like it's been said on the podcast already, but I can learn from anybody. Yeah. Um and if we truly have that posture, then there is almost a hunger for get like spending, making sure who's who's not in my life right now that I'm missing their perspective. And we can't we can't get everybody all the time, you know. Um, but that's something that even kind of stepped into my work and some of the the the leadership positions that I've been. Yeah. And as I've thought about building teams or as I've thought about um uh how our organization is growing, what what perspectives are we missing that's not in the room right now? And you don't you don't you probably don't ever pause to ask that question if you don't believe we can we're we we can learn from anybody. Yeah, um whether they have the perfect resume or what we what we perceive as valuable, we we can we can learn from anybody.

SPEAKER_01 20:04

I like that. And like leaders are learners, right? So if you're really gonna be a leader who endures through like as generations change and the culture changes and AI comes, it's like you gotta be a learner. Right. And one of the ways you're learning is like through people and the difference. So you I would love to use that too as a segue into your leadership because you've learned a lot, but you lead and you've led, you know, in a multi-ethnic church, but you've also led in a predominantly white organization. But there's you know, there's people of color in it. So, and I've been through different conversations we've had, really encouraged at different points about the way in which you have thought about it and even the actions you've taken from boards you've been on to leadership decision in your your business. So I'm curious because I think it's helpful for people who might be listening and they might be to your point on when you went to university in a predominantly white space, and they're a white person, they're like, What do I do I do anything? Like, is there anything for me in this here? And so I'm just curious sharing some about the ways you've thought about that in your leadership and boards you served on, things like that.

SPEAKER_00 21:06

Yeah. Um, so um at this point, after 15 years of the organization, I've been fortunate enough to be in the senior leadership category, and I get to manage and uh be responsible for a lot of different careers and strategies that we make each year. Um, like you said, I my responsibilities are typically in the Carolinas, but I had the opportunity to join one of our nonprofit boards that's attached to Booster, and the board exists to help care for employees who are going through financial hardship so they can apply and um uh receive like a grant of of some sort of funds to help them. And so our board would re reviews those applications. And it was a really great team of a lot of generous leaders in Booster managing that board. And I got to jump into that and listen. And there was a moment, um, there was a moment uh where we had some board members just naturally rolling off and and transitioning, and we had to decide do we need to mi mix up who's on the board or add some folks in. And at the time the current leader had offered, I don't think we really need to add anybody because I think we're good with what we got right now. And it I I guess it was one of my CQ proud moments where I realized, oh, there has been some fruit in me. Because it just felt very natural to question that initial response from the leader that we don't need anybody else in the room. Because it was a room full of five white folks that were all the same age and kind of at the same stage of life. And again great people, but I just paused and said, hang on, what we actually have a cool opportunity to add some diversity, not for just diversity sake, but for learning sake. Like as we are reviewing uh people's cases of of it it would be helpful to the board if we had a diverse perspective from someone who see might see this differently than we do or has a different set of life experiences in it. And I was grateful that that changed the trajectory of how we built that team and how we built that board. And I think it's had a huge impact um just in a short period of time on changing the way the board thinks and operates. And so that that's just one example where if we have a posture of of humility and learning and we've actually tried to take some steps in growing our C2, it can have real change in an organization.

SPEAKER_01 23:30

Do you feel like they responded well when you brought it up?

SPEAKER_00 23:32

They did actually um and I was I was there was not at that there wasn't any hesitation to it. It was almost like a blind spot. Like the leader literally almost gasped and like I don't know why I didn't even think of that. Thank you for saying that and to the point of if we find ourselves running in a monocultural whatever that culture how we want to splice it a mono water the water we swim in space we don't even know sometimes the right questions to ask because because those blind spots just exist. And and because I had some CQ growth in me already I was able to help us see that.

SPEAKER_01 24:06

That's cool. And it's cool that because I think sometimes you can you can use your voice and there's pushback but sometimes it's like oh it's welcomed. Right. And you don't even know till you use it. Right. And it's like oh yeah and I th again I love the you saw you saw the need and like you you stepped into that space to say hey if we get somebody else in the on the board we're we we'll be able to see and help people in a more holistic way because we're going to learn. We'll be more effective. And it's like to you you had this I remember this preacher saying once too it's like a squirrel in a box. I don't know if you remember this but it's it's like you can't when it's stuck in the box can't think outside of the box. And it's like there's this idea sometimes when we're stuck in a box and it's the same it's the fish. We can't see outside of it so we don't know the questions to ask to think about even the outside of the box like to get out of it because we're in it. Because we're in it. And I think that that can be so true is is you don't even know there's this um there's a Nigerian woman on our uh teaching team at the church and I appreciate her because um when we're talking through different applications for sermons and things she will always she she she leads this way most of the time she'll be like well I I I know I know this this might be different because I'm coming at it from a Nigerian perspective. Like she almost and we're always like we and she almost will like that I don't even know if I should say it we're always like please right because then she offers this yeah because then she offers a perspective and even though like everybody else on the call although although different ethnically we're all Americans and so that's still a box that we're in and she will constantly make say points that help us think outside of that box. And it really is so I have found it so helpful because I'm like yo I swim in American wine and it's not that it's bad. Right. And she's not always critiquing it. Oftentimes she's just saying here's another perspective. Yeah. And it's very helpful to me because I go oh yeah that is one I haven't even thought about and that's what I would just advocate that in an an investment in your own cultural competency your your CQ there is so much fruit in it for you.

SPEAKER_00 26:08

Like it it is helpful in the world it is helpful in ministry it is helpful um in in in so many contexts but it's a blessing to you. Yeah um it's a tremendous blessing to you and I I've I've felt that at a small taste but I want more of it. Yeah I want I want to I want to keep learning I want to keep growing there are there are some cultures that I feel like I have grown in confidence in there's some that I have little experience with that um that I that I want in my life. Any main any like to leaders out there in any kind of organization if you had to be like hey here's in regards to CQ here's some things I would encourage you to do and here's some things I'd encourage you not to do well I think in general leading with questions is a s is a smart move as a leader specifically I think that there is a false reality sometimes that leaders got to have it all figured out or they got to be the smartest people in the room. And I have just learned that there is power in asking good questions. Yeah shout out to my dad and it's been one of his soapboxes in my life that just the the quality of questions you ask um in some ways can impact the quality of life you live if you really think about it that that that goes deeper than just how it sounds but so asking good questions um I think especially for anyone who's in a role as a leader is a is a wonderful place to start um I would also um maybe this is maybe more of the impact that growth in CQ can have but people feel seen and cared for differently from their leader when there is cultural competency in their leader. Because as we're navigating life or tough conversations or um you have that gear to to to meet somebody where they're at or at least get closer to them. Yeah. And and and be that that bridge for how they're either processing or feeling emotionally.

SPEAKER_01 28:01

And so yeah that's what that's what comes to mind. That's good. Yeah that's good. I love learning and uh and asking asking those good questions and even if where there are people I think one of the things about helping others grow in cultural competency too is even with whatever the demographic is of your team or organization or church to start by appreciating the differences within the team. Yeah even if it if it's all black people or all white people if you start also going hey no just like first Corinthians 12 says like we have we're still different there's different gifts and we we're so thankful for our shared humanity and if we're Christians the unity we have in Christ Jesus but there's also differences to be appreciated. And when you start like doing that, sometimes those can be safer differences to explore too you'd be like oh yeah because you're a different Enneagram I should really I could ask you this differently right if you have a different conflict you know I could ask you this differently which I actually think can build capacity even in more monoethnic spaces that kind of get you more prepared for multi-ethnic ones. And then to your point another thing it made me think of is when you do have somebody who's from a different cultural group or a different ethnicity than you to lead with those questions to initially and not presume that as a leader I have this person has always liked when I was a timely communication this being late wasn't a big deal to them that you know whatever it is like to presume that they will feel the same way this this person of a different race or ethnicity than you than the other people you've led instead be a leader who who's thinking no let me like be curious to the person on my team who's from a different cultural background and like lead with going hey and I'm one of the things I do when a new person joins or like is reporting to me I'm always asking about like conflict styles first. Yes like what do you really appreciate in the leader? Yep. Do you have any triggers? What was your relationship with past authority? That's great. I'm always asking that question because that fine as a pastor but also as a boss that typically affects like their relationship with me. And people have different views of it. So people are way more relational and familial and even from a a boss might really appreciate being known and some other people like don't need or want that at all. They're like it's dealing with what I need to do and I'm gonna go do it. Like yeah I want you to know you care about me but it's not as big a deal to them and so it just is different.

SPEAKER_00 30:16

One prac one practical thing that I think is very helpful in in a in a culture on a team or in your workplace that booster has always done well but then I think even the the the meat that like CQ brings to the conversation around this is is some form of an intake survey. Yeah like I think I know we've we've done this in great city world like it can be as it can start as light or simple as your favorite things. You know you learn a lot about people just by what's your favorite snack what's your favorite this what's your favorite that but like having a place especially with somebody new or trying to build culture to really learn and surveys like that with honest questions even bringing in what you were talking about of like how do you like the conflict or what's your personality like or this and that um it it it allows the space to feel you feel you feel it feels safer. Yeah. And so therefore I get to articulate yourself. That's right. You get to articulate yourself and I think I think for the minority cultures in the room too they they get a chance to they get a chance to feel more known.

SPEAKER_01 31:13

You know I completely agree. It's like oh there's a there's a space where I can say I I view this differently and it's nice with the beginning of a relationship to go, I can start that way. Right. Because I do think as a minority sometimes you can feel like okay am I going to be put in this lens and when there is like a a a cultural difference you feel versus the majority it sometimes depending on the POC's background can feel like a huge bur like it can feel burdensome. You can feel like you're gonna be dismissed right they can understand me they're gonna mistreat me. And sometimes it's like they might not do any of that. Right. But you got your own baggage your bringing because of maybe your experience or just the world and that is factoring into that. So yeah I love intake forms. And even if like if you didn't do an intake form it's like never too late.

SPEAKER_00 31:56

Really yeah you can start it now you can do it like hey we got to never done this but we're gonna do this. We're gonna start a new initiative in our organization. I want to I want to I want to know my team better. I want to know right each each of my leaders better. And I think I just said for the leader you have to open that door. Yeah. Because no it's it's it's too the gap is too big probably for someone especially a minority culture in the room to to feel like they can actually they're not going to change that culture on their own. The leader has to really welcome it and invite it in.

SPEAKER_01 32:27

So and I think I last thing I'll say is I would say even some some different people of color have led even even being other black people have led but our church is multiethnic but it's still predominantly white I've still found like it takes time and constant encouragement for them to feel the freedom to use their voice sometimes. Like you have to be like no like we really welcome this and I told one of my staff people just recently I was like hey I liked it when you like you said this and we disagreed and talked about that. I was like how but how did you feel because I you know me I like I kind of like disagreement. Yeah you do I'm not but I was like I how did you feel about that right because that was a newer dynamic for us. And so just trying to make sure okay am I creating space to do that and um to to welcome that and to also and kind of ask multiple questions because I think for some people or minorities in particular in majority contexts you can be like okay do they really mean it do mean okay they do mean that and then also there's like moments I think in time like crisis moments. I've heard you talk about that some too like just in organizations. Like these are critical opportunities to be able to like prove whether you mean it or not. Right. Like are you going to listen in this time? It doesn't mean you got to agree with everything either.

SPEAKER_00 33:43

Yeah but yeah. Yeah that's good. I'm so excited about CQ and how many of these categories like conversations it can be aimed at right because like race and and reconciliation ethnic ethnicity that that is a very appropriate starting point. Yeah I've been thinking more recently about how many blind spots I have in multi-economic yeah conversations and worlds and how how middle class I am and how I I don't I don't realize uh or sit in the problems that that those who are not in that class would feel and um and I'm I'm real I'm excited for for all the conversations where where CQ's going but it it is a lifelong pursuit and investment and um it blesses you along the way which is so good.

SPEAKER_01 34:30

Praise God thanks being on so uh just as a reminder CQ we do workshops two-day workshops also do teachings we got blogs podcasts and we just are we really want to be a resource hub so if anybody's out there and you're like hey what'd it look like to have CQ come to my organization, work in my church, whatever, talk to us. Send us an email you can fill out a form on the website we'd love to let you know more about it. But William Krause is great to have you on man CQ. Let's go