The Mask & The Mic
The Mask & The Mic brings together two longtime voices from the sports world for real conversation beyond the game. Former NHL goaltender and Original Mighty Duck Guy Hebert and veteran broadcaster Kent French sit down to talk sports, entertainment, and life with honesty, humor, and perspective. From stories behind the scenes to conversations with athletes, entertainers, and influential voices, this is a space where experience meets curiosity — and where the talk continues after the final whistle.
The Mask & The Mic
Leo Carlsson Offer Sheet Explained | Ducks Have 7 Days to Decide
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One signature. One week. A decision that could reshape the future of the Anaheim Ducks—and perhaps the NHL.
On Episode 23 of The Mask & The Mic, Guy Hebert and Kent French take an in-depth, objective look at one of the biggest stories of the NHL offseason: restricted free agent Leo Carlsson's blockbuster offer sheet from the Philadelphia Flyers.
The five-year contract carries an average annual value of $18 million, making Carlsson the highest-paid player in the NHL should the deal become official. Now the Anaheim Ducks have seven days to make one of the most important decisions in franchise history: match the offer and commit to their young franchise center, or decline and receive four first-round draft picks as compensation.
Guy and Kent break down every angle of the situation—from the salary cap implications and roster construction to what matching the contract could mean for the Ducks' ability to sign another cornerstone player, Cutter Gauthier.
The story also carries another fascinating layer. Gauthier was originally drafted by the Philadelphia Flyers before requesting a trade and ultimately landing in Anaheim. Is this offer sheet simply business, or is there more to the story? The guys discuss why offer sheets remain one of the NHL's rarest management tools, why this case is different, and whether it could change how teams negotiate contracts with elite young talent going forward.
Drawing on their decades covering and working within the NHL, Guy and Kent examine the situation through the eyes of players, management, and the league itself—offering thoughtful analysis rather than speculation.
No matter what decision Anaheim ultimately makes, the ripple effects could be felt throughout the NHL for years to come.
Hi everybody, this is GA Bear, the mask in the mic, and yes, I am the mask. And listen, on today's show, I don't know if Frenchie wants to get a word in here shortly, but listen, it is chaos in the world of the NHL. We thought it was gonna be with July 1st, unrestricted free agency, but no, there's something called an offer sheet.
SPEAKER_01Yes, and I am Kent French. I am the mask in the mask and the mic, and the offer sheet surrounds one future star on the Anaheim duck. Yes, we all know who I'm talking about, Leo Carlson. This entire podcast is pretty much all about Leo. Uh what the duck should, shouldn't do, um, what why Leo did what he did, why Philly did what they did. So it's certainly gonna be uh a lot of fun. We uh we hit a lot of the topics that people are wondering about Kivo.
SPEAKER_00Yep. And all the trickle-down effects affecting other players, oh, namely Cutter Goche, and how that will affect his contract. So uh a lot to talk about. Uh it was a great time, and there's gonna be uh a big decision looming in the next few days for the Anaheim Ducks.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we like to call this podcast the Mask and the Mike, and uh, we hope you enjoy the podcast, the conversation, and as always, Kivo.
SPEAKER_00And always good for us.
SPEAKER_01Hello everyone, and welcome to another edition of The Mask and the Mike. Ken Franch Guilla bear with you as we um there's uh there's an elephant in the room.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, hey, that's a great way to put it, right?
SPEAKER_01Like, what are we gonna talk about this time? Well, let me think. Um, yeah, no, we're not talking World Cup, although that was disappointing. Um Yeah, we'll we'll shelve that for just a moment. Yeah, yeah. Uh you know, in the hockey world, there is uh one name that everybody is talking about. I just so happens to be um uh a member currently, at least still as of right now, a member of the uh Anaheim Ducks. That would be Leo Carlson. Uh and just to remind all of you um who have been living under a rock, um the Flyers um tendered an offer to one Leo Carlson for five years, $18 million per, which would make him the highest paid player in the National Hockey League. Um so the Ducks have because Leo is a restricted free agent, he has uh or should I say the ducks have seven days to match that offer, which would come on Friday. Uh I don't even have the dates in front of me. You know what that is, Gibo?
SPEAKER_00Well, somebody told me three o'clock Eastern on the 10th. On the 10th. Don't hold us to it, but that's what we believe. That's what we've been told.
SPEAKER_01So that all being said, certainly a lot to talk about there. As of the as of uh the day we are recording this podcast, which is on the 7th, there has been no um match. And the ducks can match that offer. Uh and then that would be it. That'd be done.
SPEAKER_00Um, so Gebo, where do we where do we start from here? Well, we'll start with July 1st, which is usually the most exciting time of the summer because it's unrestricted free agency, right? So there's a lot of teams trying to fill the void, make their teams better with signing of unrestricted free agents. Uh for the ducks specifically, but around the league, uh, there were a lot of great moves. You saw some teams uh trying to trade rights of players. Uh the ducks did that themselves, uh, getting something in return. So if you didn't hammer out a deal before uh that July 1st date, uh much like John Carlson, you want to at least get something for his rights, uh, which the Ducks were able to uh to do. And then of course a radcoat goo is the same thing, AJ Greer coming over uh with his rights, which subsequently the ducks were able to sign him uh to a multi-year contract. So uh the Jacob Truba, um uh he is now uh we talk about crosstown rivals, LA Kings, but there's also that other team up the street, which is the San Jose Sharks, and then the Sharks came in and locked up Truba to another multi-year deal. I I think more term than what the Ducks were willing to give, and probably a lot of other teams were willing to give. But the Sharks, hey, give them credit. They're pushing a lot of chips in on the table right there. Mike Rear, general manager, uh, got Darnell nurse, took the whole 9.25 million. So uh the cap uh obviously going up every year for the NHL right now. Uh the Sharks have the room. So they got two real key veteran defensemen that they've just added to their lineup to try to help them make a push for the playoffs. But there was a lot of great things. John Carlson, Tampa Bay, you hear all these great stories who's signing where, but then really, you know, the thunder happens, and it's an offer sheet, which is just so rare these days. And like it's so rare. Frenchie just got up and left the camera because he just can't believe it. Um, you know, it and really, there was an offer sheet the day before, uh, which was uh a much quieter off offer sheet. Uh Utah Mammoth. Uh all of a sudden they got one of their players offer sheeted. Uh, I think it was Hayden, right? Is that who it was?
SPEAKER_01I believe so.
SPEAKER_00Um so but I maybe that opened the door in the Pandora's box that, like, hey, maybe something else could happen. And the Philadelphia Flyers, as you mentioned, uh it shocked the hockey world, really. I mean, the offer is incredible, and it's an offer that is so front-loaded and I've obviously that's the key, right?
SPEAKER_01I heard the I heard the term I heard the term devilish use to describe the offer sheet. So basically make it is you know, I kept talking to other people going, oh, what if it's like it starts at 15? Because it's an average of 18. So what if it's 15 and it ends at 20 something or whatever it is? So you could technically year one fit more, you know, more money under the cap. You know, you're not completely hamstrung like this deal will do for the Anaheim Ducks. But um, you know, when you say offer sheet, it takes me back to when the Ducks won the cup back in 07. And that off-season, if I stand corrected, was one Dustin Penner who certainly made a name for himself, right? On the PPG line. Absolutely. And the Edmonton Oilers came in and offered him, I believe it was like a $20 million contract. And Brian Burke was like, What the hell? So I remember him not being very happy about it. But for the money that they were paying for Penner, he's like, go ahead.
SPEAKER_00I yeah, uh, we we just can't, we just he's not worth it. We can't do it. Uh a different situation with a different type of player. Yes. Certainly at that time. Uh, you know, I there were no, I don't think there were any cap restrictions at that time. I I can't remember. But in your own budget, you're like, I can't pay that player that, you know, that much money.
SPEAKER_01But that's all, but to your point earlier, when it comes to offer sheets, they're just you you don't do hear a lot of them because I would imagine Gibo, it does have a tendency to create a little bit of bad blood amongst other GMs because you're coming in to try to take a player away uh and put some pressure on the organization. In this instance, it wasn't just coming in, it's like coming in full force, we're gonna pay, and then some to make sure it is incredibly difficult for you to re-sign this player. So um, you know, as we stand, trying to understand the cap as well, trying to um understand where the ducks sit.
SPEAKER_00And so if so, so let's let's bring it back from So what you're saying is there's a lot of moving parts that it's a lot of moving parts like if I have the money, I can just spend it and it we'll just keep signing players because we have the money and we can do that. A la Detroit Red Wings many, many years ago, the New York Yankees when there weren't salary caps, like if you had the money, you could buy the players essentially. This isn't baseball. This is not a baseball thing, right?
SPEAKER_01It's not for now. That could change again. Um, but yeah, so so the ducks had room to technically you know ingest this $18 million contract, but they still had um Pavlo Minchikov to who was a restricted free agent and had to sign, but they went ahead, Gebel and signed him to 7 million per. Uh, so that took away cap space.
SPEAKER_00And and that was also because there was the threat out there that there were offer sheets uh that were potentially but going to be signed, and that other teams were like, hey, this is not a bad idea. You know, if the ducks are dealing with Carlson and maybe signing him to 18 million a year, we all it like you, it's public, right? Everybody knows what the other team's cap space is. So you can kind of use that as a weapon against them to figure out, okay, hey, if I, you know, if they do match, then they might not be able to sign this guy. And oh, by the way, we know that cutter goche is a restricted free agent, so they need to sign him too. Like when you're restricted free agent and you have to get qualifying offers, it means that you essentially have no more term on your contract. So you don't have like Cutter Gauche doesn't have a contract for next season, this coming season. He does not have a contract to be able to play unless he signs something. So all of a sudden you're like, okay, whoa, whoa, whoa, how do we pump the brakes on this and and and make all these numbers fit? You know, I think the Minchikov deal, um obviously that solidifies some of the defense, you know, that they need to make sure because they let three veterans go. But at 7 million or 7.2 million per year AAV, then all of a sudden that is that is making 40 something million that went to like 39 million, now is probably what 32 million or something like that that's available. Um I I think when you do the math to fit Leo and Cutter in there together, uh depending on what Cutter's real number is, like it's it's I mean, you might barely be able to fit it without moving another player.
SPEAKER_01It well, if Cutter now takes a haircut, right, takes a a uh team friendly deal because But why would you exactly so all reports all reports right all reports had that you know the the ducks were buzzing around you know 12 and 3 from 11 to 13 million per uh for each player. Yeah. And then reports came out that the ducks, hours before the offer sheet came came over from Philly, the ducks were around 13 million and Leo's um camp wanted 15. So you're already in this this range. So you can't see Cutter, you know. The cat I think with the after the Minty deal, the ducks have just over nine million left in cap space. So he would have to come in at nine to make this work, and if he were to do that, now the ducks are at the cap. And then you can the trickle-down effect, but we talked about at the last podcast when it comes to defense. You just mentioned it, truba's gone, Carlson's gone, good as gone, you know, to name a few. And then now how can you replenish that you have Lacomb that's tied up for for eight years, but then you really are leaning on your minor league system, and some of these guys, we mentioned the cupboards are full for the prospects that that uh I'm sure Pat and his staff obviously know a lot more than than we do about who can make an impact and who will make an impact this year, but it it leans, then it puts a lot of pressure on the Ducks minor league system to come through.
SPEAKER_00Well, uh yeah, it does. I mean, it there's uh uh it's a trickle-down effect, as you mentioned, that you know. But I think the biggest thing is is okay, the ducks obviously didn't uh and isn't it amazing that you know uh we both have great relationships with the team. I'm an alumni, I get to do broadcasting, you've done it for years, and this isn't happening in Montreal or Tampa Bay or Florida or or somewhere else. I mean, this is happening in our backyard with an up-and-coming superstar player, and it's having an impact on another superstar young player in Cutter Gochee. So uh, you know, we have a unique perspective on this because we are around these players uh and the organization, and it like it's a tough deal. I mean, Anaheim fans, I'm sure, much like we are. I mean, I not only am I an alumni and you know, employee and get to do broadcasting, but I'm just a fan. I'm a fan of the organization and the team, and I always will be. And so I'm trying to make sense of it and I'm trying to do my own, you know, uh virtual GM, trying to fit the numbers to work. And it's funny to think that like it's as a fan, you're thinking, oh man, we're heading in such a great direction. Like, you know, we just can't afford to lose, you know, one of these guys. I mean, that's the future of this franchise, is you know, Cutter Goche with 41 goals. You got Leo, who is really on the cusp of absolute stardom, talking about a guy who could be like a sulky trophy winner for years to come, you know, like an Andre Kopitar, Copotar type of player. And you think about how bright the future is. So uh it's anxious times here in Anaheim for fans, and I'm sure it's anxious times within the organization to try to make sure that they can figure out how the best way it is to get both players under contract and be able to move forward uh in a positive manner and get it done relatively quickly so that the rest of the summer, you know, they can kind of let the dust settle. And if there are some other minor moves to to kind of create cap space, you know, then they'll have time to be able to do that. But yeah, right now I think it's just an interesting scenario that, you know, I mean, listen, give Philly credit. Like they identified a player that they desperately want, and they're like, hey, we you know, listen, Comcast has more money than the you know, majority of the professional sports teams in the world, right? So it's not like they have any issue with the financial part of it, it's just working within their constraints of their salary cap as well. Uh they got Ziegris to sign, they got Jamie Drysdale to sign, you know, both of those guys um are unable to get offer sheeted because they filed for salary arbitration. So they've kind of protected themselves from getting uh an offer sheet. And so uh I think that obviously Philly will have to wait to see in the coming days what happens with Leo if they get Leo and you know, now 18 million, how does that affect the guys that they need to sign? So uh I mean it's interesting. I mean, really, if you are a math major, you can really crunch the numbers and see what fleshes out the best way. But uh, you know, I'll throw it back at you, Frenchie. Like, you know, here you are, you're the ducks management. You know, I what I've read online and have heard that the ducks came out and said, we will match any offer. You know, so basically, like, don't waste your time, don't make an offer because we're gonna match the offer. We, you know, we're not gonna lose Leo Carlson. So, you know, that came out. I read it on Instagram, the whole thing. And then the offer comes out, which I mean obviously shocks everybody at the number. And all of a sudden, it's like, you know, the fact that the ducks didn't immediately respond and say, Well, you call our bluff, but you know what? Uh, here's our cards, and we're just gonna sign them, you know. Thanks, but uh, he's gonna remain a duck for the next five years and 90 million dollars, and and we're gonna make it work. Now, the fact that they haven't, and and I understand because they really have to see, you know, work the numbers, see what the options are with four first rounders. If we did this, then that, right? Uh, and so I want to make, you know, I want to make it clear that if I am thinking about this deal and I'm not pressured in a 24-hour sequence that I have the seven days, I I am gonna take my time. And I think the ducks are doing the right thing by saying, you know, listen, how can we all, you know, let's all sit in the same room, figure out the numbers? How can we make this work? You know, we can talk to Cutter's representation, get Minty done. I know Tyson Hines is still a restricted free agent. Uh, I don't think that's gonna be a big cap hit, um, you know, because he's only played a little bit in the NHL, but it that will be an increased number. So, how do we figure this all out? So let's not have a knee-jerk reaction one way or the other. So they are taking their time to go through this process.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I don't think um Yes, I don't fault Pat Verbeek at all for taking the time, like you said. As you mentioned, um, I looked it up too because I was reading reports and I forgot that he actually said, no matter what, we're gonna match the offer. Back on January 26th, he mentioned that on Victory Plus. Then after the Ducks were eliminated from the postseason, he said it again. And then um, but then obviously when this offer came out, you know, he's like, no comment. We're gonna take the time to take a look at it. And I I think it's because nobody saw 18 million per coming. So um, yeah, and you have to look at you can't just have a knee-jerk reaction and say, or or stand how do I want to say this? You can't just all of a sudden go, just because I said this, I'm gonna follow through with it without taking a breath for a minute and realizing how this is gonna affect my team, the organization, and the organization moving forward. And if I can put the best product out on the ice to make us as competitive as possible, and knowing that one player is not gonna make all the difference in the world on the team. You have to have a team, right? Team sport. But we can't forget Becca Seneca is gonna be up next year. So you have another guy that's gonna be in the world, right? He's gonna be in this 12, 13, 14 million dollars based on the way that he played this season. Yes, that the cap's gonna go up to about 113 million, but then you got to fit him in. So you can then you don't want to play with a hamstrung cap and be at the top of the cap the entire time. So a couple things though I want to say about this is number one, kudos to the scouting department for the ducks. Why? You and I sat on the draft floor when Leo was drafted and at number two overall in the Connor Bedard draft, right? Yeah, and we heard the sigh from the crowd when the ducks picked Leo at two. Everybody thought Adam Fentili was going to go two. Yes. And we, we, the ducks, we at the time, me, whatever. Yeah, I made that decision. Um you you could hear it in the crowd. It was it was an unexpected pick. But look at look at what they did. Kudos to the scouting department for you know identifying Leo to be who he is, um, and what he can become. And also the fact that he is now coveted. Other teams are going, this is legit, and they're gonna give up. I mean, the fly the Flyers, if if the ducks don't match, they're giving up four first round picks for Leo. So that's big compensation, right? First of all, kudos to that, right? Number two is in my mind, want to take this whole Philly against the Ducks thing out of the equation. I don't think there is an animosity of the Ducks signing Cutter and Philly coming back and saying, we're gonna stick it to you. And here's the reason why. I think I think there is a little bit of that. See, I know you do, and I really do. I don't, but it's it's interesting how this is gonna play out, though, because so I don't because this was a Philly Cutter thing, and Cutter couldn't turn pro as early as he wanted to. He got bitter, there was a bad relationship there, and so that whole thing went south. The Ducks came in and as far as I'm concerned, gave adequate compensation when it comes to a second and a former six overall pick and Jamie Drysdale, right? And if that wasn't enough, I think that um Philly underpaid a little bit when it comes to Trevor Ziegris. So if there is anything going, okay, now that's a make good as far as you're saying even it's even Steven. As far as I'm concerned, right? So let's not worry about that. And there were not only as we identified earlier, but Philly wasn't the only offer sheet you know, circling the wagons here on Leo Carlson. There were three other offer sheets that were reported. So Philly is out there to get somebody and to make a difference with that fan base. Yes. And I just read before we came on the air, if the Leo deal doesn't go through and the ducks keep Leo, guess who's next on their list? Adam Fentilli. Yes. There's they are looking at him as well. So Philly is in a desperate mode right now. And if they're throwing 18 million per, you know, more power to them. Number two is oh well, I've got one more thing here. Oh no, hey, keep Russell baby. Then I see some other reports with this whole Leo at 18 and um Connor McDavid at 12.5. That's not even the same conversation. Like Connor McDavid took a huge haircut because he wanted his team to be well under the cap, sign other players, and get back to the Stanley Cup. You don't think that Connor McDavid is not going to be north of 20 million a year, like in the next year or two? Yes, he will be. He's gonna be the highest paid player. Leo Carlson will not be the highest paid player for that long, right? With the cap going up, sure, I think he is worth the money. But going back to what you're talking about with Pat, you have to look at your your budget and what works to make the team. And if he was offering 13 to Leo, and I don't know what the term is, but you have to try to make it work for everybody. And so I don't necessarily fault Pat for trying to make it work and try to get everybody in. And who knows what those conversations were like. Yeah, I don't know if they've gone if they went that far south where they were bitter at they were, you know, Leo's camp was upset with the two million dollar, three million dollar difference. They're like, we're just gonna sign this sheet and force his hand. So it's gonna be interesting. And so those are just a few, I mean, a few things certainly, and and then also I'll finish it with this because we can create this conversation with this. So now I think Pat's also pausing because let's just say uh Dylan Larkin is out there, right? Who's requested a trade. I don't think everyone's uh I've read reports like oh, this is rebuild 2.0. If Pat takes the picks, it's another rebuild. But if the picks come the ducks' way, it's I believe is gonna be packaged to go get another player. I don't think they're not gonna sit and draft and go through this process again because he just traded new tabs for two for two first round picks, the cupboards are full, they need players that are gonna help the NHL roster today. Done.
SPEAKER_00I love the passion. No, uh listen, you're you're right on it. And uh the you know, to kind of rewind just a little bit, yes, when you're thinking about, you know, Philly going after Leo, and yeah, we'll set aside the you know, the Philly Anaheim, you know, sensationalizing the you know rivalry that's existing now because of you know the cutter incident and cutter coming in. Yeah, I mean Pat did a great j job, right? I mean, he he got what probably gave up more than other teams were willing to give up to get Cutter when Cutter was available, right? Uh I mean Philly knew Cutter was not ever gonna play in Philly, so they tried to make the best deal they could. Pat probably gave them the best deal that was out there, and so the trade was made. And you know, I think there was fair compensation. I mean, now listen, Cutter's gone on to score 41 goals in NHL, and and then that is hard to replicate uh at you know by any player. So did the Ducks essentially win that trade? Absolutely. We know the fans are bitter, uh, we know that us in the broadcast world or in the media world, we love a good story. And so I think that's why if you read a lot of stuff on social media, uh everybody's chiming in. You know, I mean, uh Chris Prongers chiming in, uh, Linda Cohn. I mean, like people all over the globe are are chiming in and saying, like, this is uh, you know, uh stick it to the ducks because they stuck it to us. And and I I I think that there is a little incentive by Danny Briere in Philly to say, like, hey, like you essentially took a player we knew was going to be a great player. Uh, we our hands were tied, we had to trade him. No matter who we traded him to, he was gonna get booed every time he came into the building, whether it was the ducks or anybody else. And I think that it's uh increasing a rivalry, which is too bad that they only play twice a season. Imagine if it was in the same conference and you got to see them more often, uh, that would be a lot of fun. But let's just move on from that part of the story of being, you know, was it on purpose, intentional that we're gonna go after Leo Carlson just because he's with the ducks? So I'll say there's a tiny bit of that, but obviously Leo being a player that he is right now and will become, they had to make a compelling offer where you have to offer has to be good enough where the other team is really thinking about not matching, right? That to me, that's what it is. It's like Joe Sack back in the day when I played was highly coveted. And to me, this is still the best example of a player, New York Rangers, all the money in the world. They go out offer sheet Joe Sackick from Colorado, and you know, the Avalanche were totally blindsided, and they're like, you know, how do how do we not keep our captain? How do we not keep Joe Sackick around? And will it change the trajectory of our franchise? And you know, New York Rangers were looking like, hey, this is a marquee player that he will change our franchise instantly. Well, as everybody knows or should know, that Avalanche somehow scraped up the money and kept Joe Sack, matched the offer sheet, and Joe stayed with Colorado. Oh, and by the way, you know, they win Stanley Cups and you know, one of the best teams in the league for many, many years. So if you want to use that as maybe a blueprint of if Leo is the stay, is it like a Joe Sackick thing where every penny that you paid him pays off in the end in Stanley Cup championships and perennial powerhouses? Or does he end up going to Philly? And then whatever you can do with those assets, right? I mean, you talk about the two first-rounders that you got for McTavish, really great young players uh that are going to develop, and then you have potentially four new first-round picks. Obviously, they're not maybe gonna be the highest first-round picks. They said you need some lottery luck for possibly those picks to to get into the top 10 or top five, but still, they're valuable to other teams that are in a real rebuild. So, could you package all that? I and I think absolutely, I think you're right. If you know it, it's that thing is uh if and butts were candy and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas, right? Isn't that some kind of great line? Well, if it's not, I'm gonna use it. I think it's big t-shirts, how do that? Yeah, yeah. So I've been saying it for years, so uh I I gotta make sure I get that copyrighted. Uh it's just so fascinating to talk about because there's so many avenues that you know both teams can go down depending on what happens in the next few days. Um, there's guys who I think will think about, you know, you think about Connor Bedard who's sitting out there, you think about Adam Fantilly if you're Chicago, if you're Columbus. Does this put a real sense of urgency for you to get something done immediately with your player? And does it conversely make Bedard or Fantilly sit there and go, okay, why would I sign anything right now? Why would I sign an extension if I do not have to? Um, you know, depending on their RFA status. So uh it's it's gonna change the dynamic, I think, Franchie, for years to come with this, because if Leo, I mean, Leo's gonna make 18 million a regardless, wherever he's playing, Philly or Anaheim. And if that's the case, all those guys are gonna be looking at that number. And so it's not gonna be just Fantilly and Bedard, it's gonna be, you know, every other veteran who's playing. Guys are gonna go and be unrestricted free agents next year who are at the top, right? I mean, so we always hoped as players that somebody kept pushing that envelope uh a little bit higher because if hey, if he's making 18, I'm worth 12 all day long. And so that argument's gonna be made about a guy who had 67 points last year. You know, how in the world is he making this? So now my value has gone up by a couple million dollars. So players love it. Uh uh there's not one player in the league I can guarantee you, uh, because I've heard stories about hey, what how will this change the dynamic in either Philly's locker room or Anaheim's locker room? He's gonna get a standing ovation.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, whatever locker room he walks into.
SPEAKER_00Well, that's what it they're like. Well, is there gonna be animosity because of the money that he's getting and it was the offer sheet, and so they were forced to stay. And I'm like, no, I'm like, players in the locker room are gonna go and give him a big hug and say thank you because you've now collectively made all of us more money in our next contract. And you know, I think even guys like Connor McDavid, I mean, he's gonna be sitting there saying, like, well, I I mean, I'm probably gonna get 20 anyways, but with the cap going up and Capri Soft at 17 plus and and Leo at 18, like, you know, I'm now 20 plus whenever I sign my next rate.
SPEAKER_01As far as I'm concerned, easy, yes.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so I think that's uh that's a win-win for the players themselves, uh and as a group, but you know, uh it's gonna be really, really cool to see how this plays out. You know, I mean, again, as a fan, love to see Leo stay in ducks orange, not that other orange. Um, and I think actually I saw this on Instagram somewhere, and actually my wife found it, and she said uh Leo made some comment, and you know, sometimes I don't even know what's true. So I'll I'll take it at face value that it was Leo, and they said something about the offer sheet and whatever, and he just said, Hey, you know what? I know I look good in orange. And so like he's in a he's in a win-win situation as the player, right? I mean, if he goes to Philly, he changes teams and organizations. Uh he's gonna make his money, have a bright future. Uh, either way, he's gonna be wearing orange next season.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, for sure. Um, all those things certainly, you know, make sense. And I think you mentioned Kyril Capri Soff making 17. So that was the the bar that was already set. And so I that's what the ducks were going off of, I'm sure. And I'm sure that's what Leo's agent were going off of prior was that number, which by the way, both of us, I would not to speak for you, but I think we both agreed that number came out and mini signed me to that number. You're like, wow, yeah, that's that's a big number for I mean, a great player, but boy, that just escalated everything. I mean, that just that jumped everything up. So um and back to the cutter thing, I think it's interesting too, what kind of a full circle thing um on some of the websites I'm looking at, the Broad Street hockey website, of course, this affiliate website. It's like flyers now depend on Cutter Gautier to do them a favor. And it comes back to Cutter, of course, now to either how is he going to handle this nine million left in the cap for potentially him if the ducks don't put Troy Terry on long-term injured reserve, save that money, get him to maybe a 13 number. But then when Troy Terry comes back, right off of LTIR, then they need to either move a player, move several players prior to that. I mean, there's certainly a lot of shuffling going on here.
SPEAKER_00Um so how about the elephant in the the other elephant in the room, right? And and again, we're just you know, this is these are facts, and we're we're talking about the facts and what's going on in the the world of hockey and and how things transpire and why they do or don't happen. And so, you know, last summer we were I I was very shocked when Jackson Lacomb signed an extension, right? Just entering the season. It was in training camp, had the entire season to play uh under his existing contract and signs a massive eight-year $72 million contract, making $9 million, was going to be the highest paid ducks player in history. Um that could be possibly uh gone by the wayside by the time they dropped the puck in training camp. However, uh, so they tied up Jackson long term. Uh, I thought it was a brilliant move by the management. You know, get a guy that you know is just getting better and better, and you don't want to have to mess around during the season. You know, a lot of times players just don't like to negotiate during the season because they don't want it to be a distraction, right? They're thinking about every game that they play. All of a sudden, if I'm you know not stopping goals or I'm not scoring goals or I'm not getting points on the power plate, whatever you're seeing that dollar sign click up or down as the season goes on. So a lot of guys like to just avoid it. And I think for Jackson, it was uh uh an incredibly great move, right? Uh, I think it benefited him. He relaxed, had a great season, and then can just slide into this next eight years and be happy knowing what he what he has and doesn't have to stress about that part of his life and just focus on hockey. So everybody that I see has asked me why and why. Like, why is Cutter Goche in this situation this summer? Why is Leo Carlson in this situation this summer? Uh they didn't hammer anything out prior to last season like Jackson. Wouldn't it have been smarter to do that last year? And uh like some of my buddies, French yeah, they've pulled up clips on their phone where there's an interview apparently with Leo. And again, I take this at face value that this is all real stuff, right? Because you never know what's true on the internet. Uh, and some reporter asked Leo, hey, would you take 9.25 million a year for you know the next eight years? Or there was some number, and it was like, so say it was very similar to Jackson's, and it was apparently in training camp last year, and Leo said, Yeah, of course I would sign that deal. You know, I mean, who doesn't want to take 72 million over eight years?
SPEAKER_01Sure.
SPEAKER_00Now, now I'm not saying that this was a real negotiation and that was ever on the table or anything like that, but fans have come up to me and said, I just don't understand the process of why you did it for one player, and probably possibly, let's say possibly, possibly two better marquee players, certainly we'll say Leo, right? As the face of the organization moving forward, that that deal wasn't done. Like there wasn't more of a sense of urgency to get it done. And I, you know, to be honest with my answer, has been is that nobody knew how this season would play out for any of those players. And so I think that maybe they wanted to really get another full season of Leo and see if he was going to be, you know. I mean, I we talked about it like we were saying he was probably like a $10 to $12 million per year player before the start of the season. Like we would talk about it all the time and say, okay, well, maybe that's things. So I think maybe the organization wanted to see his progress throughout the course of the year, and then they would be able to sit down at the end of the season and say, hey, you had a tremendous season, you had an okay season, you had a mediocre season. Uh this is what we're willing to do going into your RFA status. Um, you know, I think with Cutter, you know, hitting 41 goal plateau, you know, I mean, that's gonna set itself apart in like a number in the NHL. So um the I guess the answers I've given my friends haven't been all that good because I'm like, I think they just wanted to wait and see. Uh they were happy locking up Jackson and they probably shoulda, coulda, woulda done something earlier. But as it is right now, I mean, uh, you know, uh have you faced the same tough questions with your friends and fans that that I have about this?
SPEAKER_01I have. And and I think uh you make a good point though, too, when it comes to somebody asking Leo what he would take, right? Yeah, I would say the same thing, but that doesn't mean Leo goes back to his agent, his agent's like, uh-uh. We're not taking nine and a half. What if what if the conversation, Gee, was we're gonna wait to see what your numbers are gonna be, we're gonna bet on you because you're worth more than 9.5 million per year. We again, we're not privy to how these negotiations are going. And in between you and I, there's only one person in this room that had an agent.
unknownThat's you.
SPEAKER_01You can you can speak to those conversations where it's like the agent's job is to negotiate the deal, right? Um, there's only been one player, again, that I've been aware of, that was like, I am taking a home, a hometown discount. And that was Jared Weaver with the Angels. He got offered a lot more money with the Yankees, still made over $100 million. It's like, how much money do I need? Born and raised here in SoCal. So that aside, Leo, though, yeah, of course. I mean, if I'm a what was he, 20 at the time, 19 at the time, and you're throwing a number like 9.5 million in an interview, yeah. What are you gonna say? No, yeah. Like, so no, I I understand that he would say yes, but I think then there's it's part of a bigger conversation of his agent with him saying, wait a second, let's let's figure this out. And I think those are the things that we're not privy to, which I find fascinating, are those conversations that are happening um behind the scenes. And you bring bring up a great point with Jackson Lacomb. Um, I don't think enough credit was given to Pat. You know, he's getting, you know, people are going, why, you know, why didn't he sign Leo earlier? Why didn't he lock him up? Then he's you know, he's doing trying to do a bridge deal like he did with Ziegris and Drysdale, blah, blah, blah, blah. But he did this great deal with Jackson Lacomb. Let's not forget about that. Um, but I have a question back to you. When you talk about Jackson Lacomb's value, right? It's like eight per, right? We decided that was is or not, you're not around that number.
SPEAKER_00It's nine, I think it's nine. It's seven, I think it's seven over eight years. So nine mil a cap hit.
SPEAKER_01What's valued more on an NHL team? A number one center or a number one defenseman?
SPEAKER_00Well, I mean, you can't win without having both. And I think that's uh, and and that's the thing, right? So here you're talking about Jackson. So in a couple quick years, Jackson Lacomb is going to be well underpaid. Yes. But he signed a contract that gives as an athlete, and I can speak to this as the only one in the room with an agent, um, right? Who's ever had an agent? Is that it's sometimes you're willing to give up future earnings for security. And and it's and it's plain as day, right? I mean, you sit there and you're like, okay, you know, Jackson's whatever, 24 or 25 when he signed that contract, and it's like, hey, eight years, 72 million dollars. If I handle things right in my life, uh, you know, I I I should be set. And I still probably have the opportunity to continue to play and make more money if my career goes as well as I expected. But I've got security. Guaranteed contract, you know, something happens on the ice and you blow your knee out or whatever, it that money is guaranteed. Now, I mean, back in my day, and I assume it's still the same way, is that teams would insure their top two or three highest paid players, right? So they would have insurance policies on those players. Back in the day, Paul, Tamu, myself, uh, the team would have insurance policies essentially on our contracts, that if something happened on the ice, they were covered and that the insurance company would eventually pay for our contracts. So they weren't on the hook if we couldn't play the last six years. So um, with that being said, uh, you know, that's the give and take, right? Uh one season I bet on myself. I couldn't come to terms in my uh kind of call my restricted last year of my my contract. And I just said, I'm just gonna play. I'll be unrestricted at the end of this season. I'll have a lot of options. If I play great, I'll benefit. If I don't, well, uh then I'm in trouble. And at that point in my career, I was able to make some money and and save money. And it was near, you know, back at turning close to 31, that was when we were unrestricted. Uh, but as an athlete, I just said, I'm confident that I can have a great season and I'm gonna let it ride. Uh, but you know, for like Cutter and Leo and Jackson, like, you know, they have not made a lot of money. And so they're looking at like, hey, this is my kind of my opportunity because the shift of the power has now gone to these younger guys in their situation, and they don't have to wait until 31 or even now when they become unrestricted, right? So that restricted free agent, uh, you know, teams want to lock up for seven or eight years, and this is their time to really make hay, and I think that's what they're doing. And I I I agree with you. I think because people don't know what goes on, I don't know what goes on between those conversations. Uh both Cutter and Leo, their representation may or may not have said, hey, we're happy to just let it ride this season and and see, excuse me, see how they play, and then we can negotiate after the season.
SPEAKER_01Um, what's interesting too when it comes to this Leo deal that's on the table right now is he's 21 years of age and it's a five-year deal. So that takes him one year past his, you know, takes one uh past his free agent uh eligibility. But think about this Leo's deal ends at uh 26, signs another contract at 26. He could sign two more big contracts based on his productivity and his health. Um, I mean, this is just the beginning of some paydays for Leo Carlson. And and again, I go back to the value. Like this 18 million, you know, everyone's freaking out. And I I understand freaking out from and and I think I'm more looking at it from a cap perspective. When it comes to the value of the player, I think he is worth that money over the next five years. Yeah, I mean I think it's not today, it's gonna be a fair deal. Two or three years. Yes, it's gonna be a fair deal. Like you talked about Jackson Lacomb, like he's gonna be underpaid at the end of his deal. You know, this is gonna be a fair deal. Yeah, not this year, maybe not next year, but it's certainly gonna um come back around. It's just a m it's a matter of trying to make it fit. Uh, and as we mentioned at the outset, you know, it's front loaded. There's a lot of purpose involved here to make it very difficult for the Ducks to say we want him back. And there's, you know, it's yeah, and there's just the navigating of the financials behind the scenes, as we mentioned, you could you could move the Terry to LTIR and you could do this, that, and the other thing. So that's why we haven't heard from the Ducks organization. They're trying to figure out how they're gonna make this all work. And and you make a good point. You know, Pat came out publicly at the end of January, he said, we're gonna match any offer. He said it again and again. Now we're now we're in silent mode. Um, I understand silent mode, but I understand what you were saying. You know, with Joe Sokik. You know what? We said we're gonna do it. We want him in our franchise, he's our franchise player, we're gonna pay the money, we're gonna figure it out. There's definitely two schools of thought there. Um, but they have till Friday to to make that announcement.
SPEAKER_00Well, and I mean there's a couple players, and I don't want to name names or whatever, but there's a few players on the Ducks roster that make, you know, significant money. And if they were able to be traded in the next couple days, uh, all of a sudden that's probably gonna open up, uh, I say somewhere around five million a season. So if that happens, then all of a sudden there's more wiggle room, right, in in that cap. So um that'll be interesting. So maybe that's part of the delay is like, hey, we're gonna take these couple days and see what we can do if we can if we can trade a player and open up some more cap space.
SPEAKER_01It shows you too, though, if Philly is going out and three other teams again reportedly were going out and potentially throwing out numbers for Leo Carlson, how coveted a number one center in the National Hockey League is. Everyone's looking for that center. The Ducks had Ryan Getzloff for years, and he was the cornerstone of the franchise. So you are looking for that player. Four number one picks, don't replace Leo Carlson because you they're picks, right? We don't know who and like you mentioned, most likely they're not the top 10 or even the top 15. So um that player, that type of caliber of player, and where he plays on the ice, um, that is is highly, you know, you can't replace that. It's very difficult to replace that.
SPEAKER_00So, um, you know, and at his age. I mean, that's the thing is you think about how high the ceiling is at twenty one years old.
SPEAKER_01And they knew that his size, his skill, yeah, he's a playmaker and a goal scorer. As Pat Verbique likes to say, he's a fifty fifty player. So I I I've had some uh So as you mentioned, fans reach out and try to figure out what's going on. And before the Minti deal was signed, full disclosure, I said I'm not concerned. Because I knew what the cap was, wasn't sure where Minty was going to come in. We all thought it was going to be at a lower number. With you that he is a franchise, he is a franchise player and will be the franchise player for the Anaheim Ducks. They're going to figure out a way to make it work. But they're going to have to be creative. And as we mentioned again, they're going to have to lean on some of these defensive prospects to really fill in the rest of the roster to make this work. Because the last thing you want, Gibo, is disparity when it comes to you got two guys, three guys making this much, and then the rest of your roster, you can't fill out a roster that's going to be competitive. And would the Ducks rather be going to the postseason, Ducks fans? Yeah. Postseason every single year for the next 10 years? Or do you want to have to backfill because you don't have enough cap room?
SPEAKER_00Does he make us better with that salary cap issue? Or is it better to get and listen, I know we all have read everything, so anybody who's listening to this is like, hey, I read the thing that we could get Elias Peterson and uh Dylan Larkin for like I don't know, one's making like 12 or 13. Maybe Peterson's making like 12 or 13.
SPEAKER_01Dylan's an eight, seven cap hit, I think I look today.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So it's essentially like you could get those two players for just maybe a little bit more than what Leo's cap hit would be. And would that make the team a better team? Like as a potential playoffs slash Stanley Cup competitor? I mean, possibly. I mean, but that's that's the choice that you know management has to do. Is like, okay, are there and I'm just using those two guys as an example, uh, only because I read it from you know somebody online and I was like, well, that's an interesting thing. I'm like, do I think Elias Peterson's worth like $12 or $13 million right now from his past performance in Vancouver? Absolutely not. Would I be willing to you know give him a chance in a new new lifeline on a better team here? You know, I don't know. I mean, and and that's why when I put my virtual GM hat on, um, you know, it's easy to make these decisions, but when you're the actual GM making these decisions in real time that are gonna have a huge impact on the direction of the franchise, not just for like a year. I mean, you're talking whatever happens in this situation in the next few days, um, you know, is gonna impact the franchise one way or another for for a long time.
SPEAKER_01Um, you mentioned age, and I think that's that's one of the key factors. 21 years old. Dylan Larkin's 29. You know, you start talking about some of these older players. I mean, the Ducks, what they did in the postseason, that I mean, they're you know, as we talk about windows being open, doors being open, however you want to, whatever, you know, you know, analogy you want to use, it's open. And and with a 21-year-old player with his talent, again, that's why he's being so coveted. You put all these factors together with Leo Carlson, and that's what makes him you know so attractive. So, um, and by the way, I think one thing I don't I don't know if I've said this yet, but congratulations to Leo Carlson. I mean, I don't know if we have we said that yet, like I I don't think we have it.
SPEAKER_00I mean, I I congratulate him from on behalf of like uh former players and current players. It's like thank you.
SPEAKER_01Has anyone in there I mean, would anyone fault him for signing an $18 million per deal?
SPEAKER_00Like no, and and it's and I I mean it listen, if uh all Ducks fans should not feel bad that Leo signed this deal, right? I mean, as a player, like listen, you've got a short shelf life uh to play this game for a living. And you know, when someone shows that kind of interest in you, listen, I listen, uh I'm sure with the numbers that were being bantered around or whatever, that because it was such a disparity between what that actual offer in hand was and what the negotiating number currently was bantered about, you know, between the ducks and his camp, uh like it's a no-brainer. I mean, it is, I mean, I don't listen, I was as faithful to organizations as I could. Sometimes it didn't work in my favor, took less term, less money because I thought the team was gonna be better. And at the end of the day, I I got put on waivers, right? So there's a certain amount of allegiance that you can have toward the team, but the team has to show the same allegiance to the player. And at the end of the day, it's a business. We always said when Wayne Gretzky got traded, listen, none of us were safe. And if you thought you were, and you do have some power with no movement clauses, and that gives you uh some security and safety and and where you might go if uh you know teams decide they don't want you anymore. But for Leo, uh it is. It's an absolute no-brainer to sign that deal, knowing that you're just hoping, like if you love it here in Anaheim, that it's like, well, I mean, I keep hearing that they're gonna match any offer somebody makes, so why would I not sign it? And then they'll match it. And then we just go on our merry way and continue to build the franchise here in Anaheim and and try to be better next year than we were this past season.
SPEAKER_01How and how often as a 21-year-old professional athlete do you have control? Like he has he got control given to him from an offer sheet, right? Yeah, all of a sudden, didn't have to negotiate anymore. It's done. I'm making this number regardless. Now, the only thing I'll say as as an athlete as well, again, I'm I can't speak from that. There's only one person on this podcast that used to be a professional athlete and have an agent. It's trending, it's trending in your direction, my friend. Um money, yes, security, yes, right? All these things are are incredibly important. But I guess how I'll finish this too is winning. The importance of winning and knowing again, con Connor McDavid and Leo Carlson not in the same conversation as of yet, right? But you see what Connor's doing, and Connor's made money, so he can he can afford to say, hey, I mean, he's maybe taken a haircut at 12.5. You know, in hockey, in a hockey world, that's still a decent uh chunk of change, but he wants to win. And at some point, you know, Leo, and maybe now it's not but maybe now's not the time for him at 21 years old to be able to make this kind of money and and make this kind of contract and get this type of security. But there is a point in time, and I want to get your two cents on this, is winning and making sure it all fits so you can have great players playing around you to have the best team possible, right? And at 21 years of age, I don't know if you're in a position to go, I'm gonna take a team-friendly deal. Right?
SPEAKER_00I mean, that's you can't. I mean, honestly, I mean, listen, you at the end of the day, you do have to look out for yourself. Yes, when you're like 28 or 29 or 30, 30 plus, and you want to win the Stanley Cup, not that every player doesn't win, want to win the Stanley Cup, but you also think about okay, why is it my responsibility at 21 to give up millions of dollars to make sure my teammate can sign for more money than maybe maybe he should get? Or, you know, why are the two of us having to have that responsibility of taking less money to make our team better at this age? And you know, so I mean, you can go right down the rabbit hole with like, well, why would you have signed that guy to five million dollars? This guy's a fourth line guy making three and a half million. Well, why would you have given him that much money, right? So all of a sudden, that if you want to talk about creating animosity, it's like, okay, well, I gave up money and you know, is this is that guy really making our team better? Or yeah, you know, so uh listen, I I don't fault the players for for getting as much as they possibly can. I think that when you're older and you've banked a lot of money, you have that power to say, like Connor McDavid, to say, hey, I I will take a little bit less. And you know, it's not like he's never gonna be worth a lot of money because he will. I mean, what happens if Leo passed up a couple million dollars per season and then doesn't play well in the next few years? And then after five years, yeah, he's made significant amount of money, but he's never really panned out as that they love that that saying in all sports. He didn't pan out the way we thought. And then all of a sudden he's signing for you know a fraction of what he he gave up. So at the end of the day, you know, you want to have the strongest team moving forward to win the playoffs, but it's not your job as the player, in my mind, to make the organization's job easier and help them figure out their you know their finances, right? I mean, that's up to the organization to fit per you know, personnel into the salary cap, and especially when the ducks knew how much room they actually had, and I think that's the big thing is that if the ducks were kind of strapped coming into the summer, then that's a different conversation where hey, we can we can do this or we can do that, we just can't do both, or we can't do everything we want to do. But the fact that they had, you know, by the time they moved McTavish, they had 40 what 44 million plus, yeah. So I mean at that point, you you think that you could get everything done that you want to get done. Obviously, this offer sheet has uh turned everybody's head uh upside down in the NHL. And uh at the end of the day, yes, uh the ducks need to move forward one way or the other, and it'll be interesting to see how they do that and make all the numbers work. And hopefully that includes Leo Carlson because uh I know we all enjoy watching him play, watching him grow as uh, you know, as without a doubt, a superstar in this league.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you and I were there on draft day. We uh we love having him on the team. The team loves him being there. You know, the up front office wants to make it work, and of course the fans want him there. So it'll be interesting to see how this all plays out. Um also it'll be interesting to see how this creates a precedent um when it comes to offer sheets in the future. If this is something that we see and all of a sudden, you know, this is something that we haven't, you know. As Chris Pronger said when you know he got on his socials, this is why these rules are put in place. So you can actually go out and you can do this and create offer sheets for for different players. So we'll see if this becomes more of a precedent based on what Philly Philly's done. Um, one thing I've learned throughout this conversation is that I need to get an agent.
SPEAKER_00Yes, you do, French. Yeah, I can't believe it's been all these years. You're as successful as you are negotiating your own deals.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah. As I'm sitting in this room with blank walls.
SPEAKER_00Uh Gibbon. Hey, Ken French is looking for representation. Anybody is out there listening or watching The Mask and the Mike, uh, you know, send us a DM. Get Frenchie some get a rep for Frenchie. Send me an offer shoot. Frenchie needs a rep.
SPEAKER_01Uh hey, uh that was a uh robust conversation. Um stuff is gonna happen. You're almost an hour in, and it's like we just went all wheel all the time. And certainly there's I mean, we could keep talking about this forever. This fascinating uh on both sides and what Phillies are or the Flyers are trying to do and what the Ducks are trying to do. So yeah, um, it'll play itself out here in a couple days, and then we will be chatting about it for sure.
SPEAKER_00We'll we'll do a wrap-up show. Let's do a wrap-up show.
SPEAKER_01We will. We we've already been talking about it behind the scenes. We're gonna have to get on earlier than our Wednesdays and chit-chat about this because it certainly uh is the the story of the offseason the National Hockey League. Um don't forget you can check out our podcast on YouTube if you want to see my blank walls and geese lovely kitchen. It is the Mask the Mic YouTube channel. So you can uh catch it on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. Gebo, it's been fun uh diving into this with you. And absolutely, and as you mentioned, I can't wait to see how it all plays out. Um and as uh and as always, yeah, good for Leo. Good for Leo, and yeah, yeah, good for Leo and good for us.