The Black Phone 2: A clever expansion on the original

This week on Slasher Bash, Maddi and Ben review The Black Phone 2. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:25

Let's do this, bitch. What's up, everybody, and welcome to Slash Your Bash, the podcast. Podcast we're we're changing this, I guess, this intro spiel, and I am was just starting to get used to saying it. Where we pick a horror movie franchise Will we pick a horror movie series and critique it movie by movie? I don't know. That might change. Anyway, I'm here with it.

SPEAKER_04 0:47

Where we pick a horror topic.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

Yeah. Yeah. We'll figure it out. We'll get a rigamo roll at some point. And then we'll become second nature.

SPEAKER_04 0:56

Way to drop that word in.

SPEAKER_00 0:58

Rigamor roll? Yeah. I'm surprised I actually enunciated it correctly. Uh I'm Benjamin, one of your hosts, with my co-host Madison. What's up? What's up? Um Yeah, what is up? What's what's going on?

SPEAKER_04 1:13

Just uh what are you watching? What am I dude? Horror all the time now. Like are you watching anything other than horror? Not really, honestly. Um next level chef. I really enjoy that show.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

Never even heard of it.

SPEAKER_04 1:29

So it's one of Gordon Ramsey's cooking shows. And when I saw the concept, I was like, I don't know if I'm gonna like this one, but it's my favorite.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

Like there's the key for they keep upping the titles. Next level.

SPEAKER_04 1:38

Well, this one's so there's actually three different levels, and the basement kitchen is like a shithole, and the middle kitchen is like mediocre, and then the top floor is like the best kitchen you could possibly.

SPEAKER_00 1:50

Well, then they should call it next level kitchen.

SPEAKER_04 1:53

So you're trying to get to the next level because you're a chef and you're trying to cook your way to the next level. So there's literally a platform with all the ingredients that drop down from floor to floor.

SPEAKER_00 2:01

I think it should go backwards. I think it should start with the really like every convenience you could possibly have, and then it gets worse over time because like a real chef can do more with less.

SPEAKER_04 2:10

Well, that's what end up ends up happening is the people at the bottom get like the the scraps that are left over and the worst stuff to work with.

SPEAKER_00 2:16

Oh, it's happening simultaneously. Yeah, they're all cooking together.

SPEAKER_04 2:19

So this platform starts at the top, so the people on the top floor run and they get like the top proteins, and like it's it's moves the platform moves fast, so you have to just like do like a quick grab, and then it goes all the way to the bottom, and they get the scraps, and they always end up like kicking it.

SPEAKER_00 2:34

That reminds me, did you ever see that Netflix show where like it was called like the platform or something? It was a foreign subtitle deal, but it was like food would drop from floor to floor.

SPEAKER_03 2:46

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 2:47

And I for I didn't really watch it, but like you would get scraps from other people on like from a different platform.

SPEAKER_04 2:53

This is like very similar. Like people have knocked stuff off.

SPEAKER_00 2:55

They saw that show, like, let's do this for real.

SPEAKER_04 2:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:58

Interesting.

SPEAKER_04 2:59

And I'm like really obsessed with it now. It's like my favorite.

SPEAKER_00 3:02

That's cool. I haven't watched reality in a long time.

SPEAKER_04 3:05

I typically don't. Just cooking shows, but anything else.

SPEAKER_00 3:08

Oh, I just mean like outside reality.

SPEAKER_04 3:12

Fair.

SPEAKER_00 3:12

Um what have you been watching? Anyway. Uh what have I been watching? Not much. I did watch Sinners again last night. It was the second time I watched it.

SPEAKER_04 3:22

We should do that movie soon. That's a good one.

SPEAKER_00 3:24

That movie is a good.

SPEAKER_04 3:25

Speaking of what we should do next, we have a slot for one movie after this one. And when we go into Hokum. So on Instagram, I just picked a couple one-offs and had people vote on it.

SPEAKER_00 3:37

I'm sorry, you said that as if like I I knew what you were talking about, which I do know what you're talking about now that I think about it, but you were like Hokum. Before we go into Hokum, I was like, is that like hibernation? What is Hokum?

SPEAKER_04 3:50

The movie that you're not gonna watch the trailer for on Going Blind. Oh, right.

SPEAKER_00 3:54

Yes. Anyway, sorry, go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 3:56

So I had posted um three choices for people to vote on uh Get Out, uh I See You, and Heretic because Nicole, shout out Nicole on Instagram, really wants us to do heretic, and I told her we'd get to it at some point. Why don't we just do that? We could. The people voted get out, but I'd be fine doing heretic because I do have a lot to say about that movie.

SPEAKER_00 4:20

We also have weapons. Remember, remember when we recorded weapons?

SPEAKER_01 4:24

That's true.

SPEAKER_00 4:26

As our test episode, like right at the beginning.

SPEAKER_04 4:28

And it turned into more to a like a Frankenstein episode.

SPEAKER_00 4:31

Did it? I don't remember.

SPEAKER_04 4:32

Yeah, we ended up talking a lot about Frankenstein. God, you have a good memory. We talked for like three hours that night. We talked about Frankenstein, and then we got like deep into Marvel, and you told me the whole storyline for Doomsday and Secret Wars. That's why we better come out this week. By the time we got three hours in, I was good and drunk. So I don't remember anything you told me, so no spoilers.

SPEAKER_00 4:55

Yeah. You can just Google it, I guess. Anyway, we're not here to talk about any of that shit, though. We're here to talk about uh the black phone weapons two. The black phone two. So um, yeah. So last week we did the first one, which you had seen before. And you had not, and you loved it. I had not, and I loved it. And this this week we neither of us had seen it.

SPEAKER_03 5:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:18

I I I have a feeling that you know knew more about it going in because I clearly I was way off base. I did. I did my predictions last week. His brother is not being framed for this. No, he is in fact spoilers.

SPEAKER_04 5:32

It's so funny because when I saw the trailer for this and I was like, wait, the grabber's dead, it felt like Oh, they they reveal that in the trailer. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:42

That he's a ghost.

SPEAKER_04 5:43

Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:43

So it felt big spoiler. Yeah. We're spoiling this whole thing. We're always spoilers. I know, but I wish you still warned people if kisses their first time.

SPEAKER_04 5:50

Okay. Spoiler alert. So when you find out in the trailer that the grabber is dead, because he says that line that's like, you of all people, Finny, should know that dead doesn't mean dead or whatever. It's funny because like the trailer like made it very look like a very different film. And it's like, oh, oh, now we're moving from like a serial killer movie to a supernatural movie. But then you think about it and it's like, well, it has always been supernatural. Like, why does it feel like a weird jump? Because then he's been talking to ghosts the whole time.

SPEAKER_00 6:18

Well, I was gonna say, and not to get too far because I feel like this is gonna be, you know, prime peak. Half hour into this, we'll be talking about this more. But yeah, I mean, he's he's talking to ghosts, it makes sense that he would talk, like it's so cool, even that he's talking to the ghost of his kidnapper. So the first one.

SPEAKER_04 6:36

Fun fact um Yes, Scott Derrickson wasn't really interested in developing a second film. He didn't really know that there was anything there to do with it. Yeah, um, and then Joe Hill, not Joe King, although he is the son of the king, Steven. Um this keeps getting more confusing, right? Uh so Joe Hill emailed Scott Derrickson and just wrote The Grabber Calls Finney from Hell.

SPEAKER_00 7:03

Yeah, that's dope. And that was Yeah, I read something that Joe Hill had an idea for if the first movie was successful for like a second movie. Yep. And that I guess that was it. And it's such it's so awesome. But they go places where even I wouldn't have expected them to go, even with just that premise. But um, before we jump into like the big details, just overall give us our facts real quick. What I don't have any to I'm so unprepared.

SPEAKER_04 7:29

I didn't even take notes while I was watching this movie. Directed by Scott Derrickson. I don't know if it was I think he developed the story with Joe Hill, and I don't know if it was the same writer.

SPEAKER_00 7:38

His writer from the first one. What was his name? C. Robert Card Carjil was his co-writer.

SPEAKER_04 7:45

So same team.

SPEAKER_00 7:46

Same same exact team.

SPEAKER_04 7:48

Also, I didn't realize this until I was reading the um like IMDB page. The kid who plays the brother of Robin Ariano from the first one, same actor played the brother.

SPEAKER_00 8:01

What do you mean?

SPEAKER_04 8:02

So the kid who played Robin Ariano in the first one.

SPEAKER_00 8:05

Who you're saying that as if I know who that is.

SPEAKER_04 8:07

He's the he's the Finney's friend who's teaching him how to fight and like you know this kid's first and last name.

SPEAKER_00 8:14

I thought his name was Robin. I thought his name was Robin.

SPEAKER_04 8:16

Robin, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:17

Robin Ariano. Okay, now okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:20

What's his last name? Ariano.

SPEAKER_01 8:23

You know that so well.

SPEAKER_04 8:24

It's because fictional characters was my stepsister's last name before she was uh married. So I'm familiar with I know a lot of Arianos. Anyways. Um yeah, so the the actor came back. It's literally like all the same team. The actor came back and just played his brother in Blackphone 2. The like kid with glasses who's him?

SPEAKER_00 8:47

Yeah, same kid. Holy shit, doesn't look anything like him.

SPEAKER_04 8:50

I know, I had no fucking idea.

SPEAKER_00 8:52

Man, maybe Claire Kent can disguise himself as Superman. Like that's crazy with just glasses.

SPEAKER_04 8:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:57

And a haircut, I guess. Um those were good facts. Thank you for saying those. I didn't do my my job this week. But also, I have the Metacritic store here, which is 61. That's why that is lower than than the first one. I think the first one was 66, if I remember.

SPEAKER_04 9:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 9:17

Let me just double check that real quick.

SPEAKER_04 9:19

Kind of in a similar range, though.

SPEAKER_00 9:23

But it's weird because, yeah, because I feel like the second one got like a lot of like I I only decided to even watch the series because of the buzz from the second movie. Do you know what I mean? So I just assumed that it was one of those rare ones where the second movie was better. But I guess we can also discuss if we think it's better or not. Um, but I guess the first one got a 65 on Metacritic.

SPEAKER_04 9:42

Which we agreed was too low.

SPEAKER_00 9:44

Definitely. Yeah. That's confusing. I don't understand.

SPEAKER_04 9:48

I do think that would be an okay score for this one.

SPEAKER_00 9:50

I think um 66 or 61.

SPEAKER_04 9:54

I think 60. In the 60s.

SPEAKER_00 9:57

So yeah, so what did you think overall, now that we have our facts out there?

SPEAKER_04 10:00

Um, I I enjoyed it, but it felt like a different franchise. Like it felt like more of like a sequel to Sinister in the way that it was shot, um, than it actually did a sequel to Black Phone. Um I enjoyed it, I thought it had good parts, and I thought it had parts that like they could have definitely done more with or improved upon.

SPEAKER_00 10:22

I wouldn't I wouldn't necessarily disagree with with that part of the statement. Um I thought this one was just as good, if not this this reminded me of like the rare times, like a a first iteration in a movie series. Like it gets kind of not that I'm saying it's better or worse, but it becomes bigger in a very interesting way. Like I always think Terminator Tumor 2, Alien Aliens, you could even back to Future, Back to Future 2. Like, there's something about this movie where like it totally takes it to a next level that I did not expect. And not only that, I think it's still entertaining and and really cool that I don't feel like because how do you do a sequel to this movie? You can't.

SPEAKER_04 11:03

Well, it's it's interesting watching it, uh, because you can tell like Nightmare on Elm Street was like such a like significant influence, which is not where I expected the black phone to go.

SPEAKER_00 11:15

Yeah, I and honestly, like it's weird. I think they they really balance this like tightrope of this could have very easily been like really silly, and maybe some people think it is really silly. I think that they balanced it well enough where like I never got pulled out completely from it. I was like, where is this going? This is cool. I don't mind that like he can touch them in their dreams and shit like that.

SPEAKER_01 11:38

Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:39

What did you think about and I think hang on, I I think to Scott Derrickson's credit, like he made it feel like it was a part like it worked in this world. Yeah, like whatever he was doing, I didn't feel like all of a sudden we're seeing a movie that's like belongs from a different director in a different genre.

SPEAKER_04 11:59

I felt like this he expanded the rules of the world in a way that made sense that you were like, Yeah, like I wouldn't have thought of it, and then I was like, okay, it does make sense, yes, absolutely. Like, yes, the grabber, why wouldn't he call him from hell? He he's been talking to us the whole time, and like it got a lot more, I don't know. It's it's funny because I feel like it it feels like a more supernatural movie, but then it's like you go back to the concept of the first one, and it's like, but that was a supernatural movie, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:26

But he's just talking to them in that movie, like in this movie, the the grabber is like hurting his sister.

SPEAKER_04 12:32

Yeah, and that definitely expands the idea.

SPEAKER_00 12:34

But I think what works is they were so smart, or Joe Hill, whoever decided to keep it in the first movie that she could she had this power, right? I think if you had randomly introduced like the fact that, oh, I can now have visions, you know, in my dreams in this movie and not have that in the first movie, you would you I think you'd be a little bit jarred by that decision to like have them interact in her dreams. But the fact that that was such a big part of the first movie It's like a logical thing. Not only are we expanding on like the phone idea with like any phone now that's ringing that doesn't work, is is some sort of ghost that's trying to get help.

SPEAKER_04 13:08

I loved that right away. I thought that made so much sense that like I love that whole like I can't help you and just hanging up the phone and that being a thing. I wish that they had explored that more. That was like one of my biggest issues.

SPEAKER_00 13:21

I was like, what is there to explore though?

SPEAKER_04 13:24

Well, so I felt like it it makes it clear that it's not just the sister who has like these inherited abilities from their mom. Both kids have it. And Finney's the one who's repressed and ran from it, and the sister's the one who's leaned in. And it felt to me like they took this character, like I didn't really love that we started at the same fight scene, but now he's like a completely different person. Like, I'm like, I get you you've been through your shit, but he felt like a totally different character in that opening fight to me.

SPEAKER_00 13:54

But I think that I but I just to jump off on what you're saying, there's there, and first of all, I love this discussion. This is fucking awesome. But um, I like that because it to me it it tells two things. One, that it's been a long time since the first that I don't know if they ever actually tell you in, but when you're younger, uh like a year feels a lot longer than it is because you're changing so much. Like I felt like we're this is like they've changed a lot, both him and his sister and all the characters, really, even the dad. Um, but I like that, but it also shows some sort of like consequence of the first movie, not just with the community, but with him personally. Yeah. That is, and and I didn't like the fact that he was being a bully, it seemed it seemed in the moment too, but like I like that I didn't like that. Like I'm like, I like that I had a reaction, and that was my reaction.

SPEAKER_04 14:43

So what I'm saying, yeah. So what I thought was interesting is that like it's like it sets up this movie then, so it's like really interesting to explore what happens when you both have this ability and one is avoiding it and one is leaning into it. But it felt like they told way less of Finney's story. Like I felt like the sister was the main character in this one.

SPEAKER_00 15:00

She was I mean, she is, yeah. But I think that's what's cool about like I think that the first movie is about him, and the second movie is about her, and I think that he also has this like sub he he's the in the same way the first movie with he's the A story, she's the B story, it's the reverse this time. So they still have a sort of arc, both characters, but it definitely is her story. This is about their mom and and the and the trauma, not the trauma, but like the consequences or the the weight of having this power, right? Like she she even says multiple times the movie, she's like, I I feel like I'm going crazy. Like she's clearly terrified that she is, and I think that's interesting. And I think with him, what else is like I I see what you're saying, like I wish they explained it more, but to me, it's like first of all, it's not exactly the same power, right? He's getting calls from ghosts, so he's some sort of medium, but she her thing is like a completely different thing where she has he doesn't have dreams like she does. Um but he's wants to reject it because he doesn't he he's also a teenager, he doesn't want the responsibility of having to help all these people all the time, right? Like yeah, these ghosts that you know.

SPEAKER_04 16:06

I think they did a good job too of showing that the sister doesn't necessarily want the responsibility of it, but I mean, what's the line from is it a Marvel movie when they're like greatness rarely calls a it resists transformers, greatness rarely calls on us at a time of our choosing?

SPEAKER_00 16:22

I I don't know. I feel like that's something a version of that has been said many times. I know.

SPEAKER_04 16:26

I feel like it's an optimist prime line, but but it's like optimus. Yeah, but it's not like she's like I have to help. It's more like she she has this thrust upon her and she can't.

SPEAKER_00 16:39

Well I don't think she has she doesn't want to, it's not even about they're trying to help her.

SPEAKER_03 16:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:44

Whereas like in f in Finney's Finn or Fanny, right? In his situation, like he is rejecting the call. No pun intended of the call of responsibility or whatever. Where she's trying to find a solution for her issue. And like she they think, oh, if we go help these kids, like I forget exactly now. It's so funny. We we postponed this recording and I had watched it on Tuesday night. Why do they do they does they know about the kids dying and they think at that time that if they help these kids? The kid No, they don't know about the grabber yet.

SPEAKER_04 17:20

So the kid calling them um is like it's so cold here, I don't know where I am. Help me. Um, and so they start to pieces together.

SPEAKER_00 17:31

Well, why do they decide to go again? Like she's oh, she's just gonna go on her own.

SPEAKER_04 17:35

She's trying to find out stuff about their mom because she found out that the mom had worked at this camp.

SPEAKER_01 17:40

Yeah. That was cool.

SPEAKER_04 17:42

That moment where the you we open with the call from the mom, and then you get the reverse where you see that it's uh Gwen that she's talking to. Yeah. Chloe and I both looked at each other and we're both like, Whoa, cool reveal.

SPEAKER_00 17:56

I didn't I didn't know that's what was going to, yeah. See, that's what I'm saying. This movie's so unexpected in ways that it really does subvert your expectation. And I can see like sort of a a rejection of that in a way where it's like, oh, I didn't based on the first one, I didn't think this was gonna go anywhere near like this. Because like there's some sillier moments later on where like people are floating and whatnot.

SPEAKER_04 18:15

I mean, truthfully, my issues with this movie aren't with the content itself, it's more like the production. Like I hated every time they were on the lake and you could see the set. You could always I kept noting. I'm so good at yeah, where the lake ends, noticing the backdrop. Like it was clear that it was a backdrop that they were acting against the whole time. Oh man, I'm so good usually at recognizing that drove me insane, and I fucking hated the placement of the payphone right there on the lake.

SPEAKER_00 18:43

I like that. That was cool.

SPEAKER_04 18:44

Immediately I was like I was like, what the fuck is this winter camp? Like, who goes to camp in winter? But then Chloe and I were talking about it, and like as kids growing up in Colorado, in sixth grade, you go to outdoor lab, and so for a week they send the sixth graders up to a camp like this in the mountains. I went in the middle of the fucking winter, it was freezing. We went snowshoeing and shit like that. Oh shit. Um, and like high schoolers volunteer to be like our leaders, and then there's like obviously like the camp people running it too.

SPEAKER_00 19:13

The CITs.

SPEAKER_04 19:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:16

You mean for the volunteers or whatever?

SPEAKER_04 19:17

Yeah, but they uh they I guess I was like, oh, I guess we I actually did go to winter camp in Colorado, so Oh yeah, I was there, but fuck this movie.

SPEAKER_00 19:30

Yeah, I I kind of liked like again, I thought the placement of the phone had this really cool vibe to it and totally unrealistic, right?

SPEAKER_03 19:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:38

But it's like the Top Gun thing, like this, the you know, the desks in the in the hangar bay. Yeah, the classroom. It's like that it looks cool, but it's like who would do that?

SPEAKER_04 19:45

I did like that every time I'd like be like, why would they do that or why didn't they do that? That then it that question typically got answered later. Like immediately, like the first night that they're staying at the camp. I was like, why the fuck would Gwen go sleep in a bunker by herself? And then later Mondo's like, I could lose my license, don't sleep with the boys again. I was like, oh, okay. Like I appreciated getting the answers for things that made no sense to me.

SPEAKER_00 20:10

Well, they told her she couldn't sleep with the boys, they said you can't sleep with the boys.

SPEAKER_04 20:13

Did they do that in that first scene?

SPEAKER_00 20:14

Yeah, there was a line where they're getting split up in the bunkers and like you're not allowed to sleep in that room. And I remember being like, That sucks. Yeah. Because you're gonna be by herself in this fucking thing.

SPEAKER_04 20:24

One of the things I noticed right away, I think it was I wrote the note down and I'm I'm pretty sure it was in Finney's room. There was a poster for a movie called The Thing That Couldn't Die.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:35

You got that?

SPEAKER_00 20:36

I saw it, but what is that?

SPEAKER_04 20:38

I don't know what the movie is, but I was like, oh, this poster's telling us what this story is.

SPEAKER_00 20:42

True. It's a real movie. The thing that couldn't die. See, I thought And I don't know when the thing came out. Maybe it came out after this movie, time period-wise, so they couldn't use the actual I guess they could use the thing from another planet, but that movie takes place you know in Antarctica where it's snowy.

SPEAKER_04 20:59

And so like sounds like uh the thing.

SPEAKER_00 21:02

That's what I'm saying, the thing. Oh, yeah, okay. I'm talking about the thing.

SPEAKER_04 21:05

Is this like a sequel to the thing?

SPEAKER_00 21:07

No, I don't I don't know what this is. This is No. But I want to watch this movie. The Thing That Couldn't Die is a 1958 American horror film about a man executed for sorcery 400 years in the past, whose detached head hypnotizes people in order to have them reunite his head with his body so that he can live and feast on the blood of present-day people.

SPEAKER_04 21:29

Oh, I'd watch that.

SPEAKER_00 21:30

This is a movie came out in 1958.

SPEAKER_04 21:33

Nice. I gotta watch this movie. Should this be our next film in our slot? We have to be. I bet you could just watch that whole thing on YouTube.

SPEAKER_00 21:44

Probably. Um, but yeah, yeah. Sorry, I didn't mean to cut off your your brilliant take here. Oh, it wasn't brilliant.

SPEAKER_04 21:53

It was just like, oh, intent intentional poster.

SPEAKER_00 21:55

Oh, I like that. Yeah, it's cool. It's about what they're about to go through. Um I want to talk about before we get too deep in like where should we go from here? Let's talk about the dad.

SPEAKER_04 22:05

Okay. So uh Scott Scott Derrickson intentionally wanted him to have a redemption arc. He didn't want him to be a person who was just a piece of shit. He wanted him to be somebody who was very tragically affected by his wife's suicide. Um so this movie he was able to give him the redemption arc that he wanted, which I'm like part of me doesn't want to buy into it and like forgive him. But then the other part of me is like, you know, I've dealt with an alcoholic parent. I have lots of friends who have alcoholic parents, and when people get sober, they do become different people.

SPEAKER_00 22:44

Well, a hundred percent, yeah. I think for me, I think it's it's good that they didn't actually show a lot of that in the first movie. They like alluded to a lot of it. Like I even thought they were alluding to like um sexual abuse when like he's like she's in bed and he's in she's like scared that he's outside her door. I thought that was sort of like an allusion to that. Yeah, maybe it that maybe that's just me interpreting it wrong. But it's weird because I think it's if we talked about abuse being like the big theme of the first one, I think in this movie, any sort of like deeper meaning or message or metaphor for what they're going through is kind of like pushed aside just for like the horror aspect alone of it, which yeah, I actually kind of like, which I act I like it because like it's it's I don't need another movie about abuse, you know what I'm saying? Like, I I think this is the only direction they could have really gone with this, as far as like we did sort of the big metaphor thing, the serious thing. Now let's just like make this sort of supernatural world out of it.

SPEAKER_03 23:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:40

Um, but the one thing that bothered me was like, yeah, I did like I my interpretation of the first movie was like, this dad is it's not this not getting it's not just getting beat with a belt here, right? Like this something else is weird is going on, but we never see it. So I think you can let that go in this one and just be like, I guess it wasn't more than that. I guess it was just verbal abuse and some belting, and that's it. And uh, sure.

SPEAKER_04 24:06

Just three of the four types of abuse, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:08

Just like, you know.

SPEAKER_01 24:10

I guess it was abuse, abuse light. Yeah, it was abuse light.

SPEAKER_00 24:15

It was uh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:16

Yeah, I've I always find it hard to try to like go back and forgive a character like that because it's one of those like maybe you can forgive, but you can't forget.

SPEAKER_00 24:26

Yeah, yeah, honestly. Like, I I feel like I am glazing this movie a little bit, but like the whole dad thing, I even even if you forget, like maybe it wasn't really that bad of abuse. I don't even understand why even have him this heavily in the movie. Like when he shows up at the end and he's there just randomly trying to help them. I guess you need him there to believe his kids in a way, but it would just seem like do we need him to be here for this? Like he's like they never really have a scene where they're like, I'm sorry, like he says I'm sorry to them. You know what I'm saying? Like they have that scene where they're they're all three of them are outside and yeah, he's trying to figure it, which is kind of a fun scene, but like I just like why do I don't think he needs to be here. I think I mean I guess like it's nice to know that his wife didn't kill herself.

SPEAKER_04 25:10

And that your his kids aren't lying about their abilities.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

Yeah. But I just feel like it just it seemed like one thing too many. Like this movie to me is about Finn and his sister, and and it's like the first movie. I don't know why they needed to feature him so heavily in this.

SPEAKER_04 25:26

Yeah. What'd you think of the weird couple that like owned the camp?

SPEAKER_00 25:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:32

Like what was what purpose did they serve?

SPEAKER_00 25:34

I mean, uh to be the skeptics, to be the the human antagonists, I guess.

SPEAKER_04 25:41

I do like that we saw him get slashed, but then they're like endings never explained.

SPEAKER_00 25:46

I know. What do you mean they're endings?

SPEAKER_04 25:49

Like we see them get slashed, we don't see the aftermath. Like, do they survive? Do they not?

SPEAKER_00 25:53

Oh, yeah, they we did. We saw them.

SPEAKER_04 25:54

Did we?

SPEAKER_00 25:55

Yeah, they were walking around and shit. They're all like, oh my head.

SPEAKER_04 25:58

I also really enjoyed the bleeding cowboy chick character. Like every time she'd say or do things, like close her laugh, and I was like, Who is this fucking chick?

SPEAKER_00 26:06

I know, I loved her, she was cool, and you know what I did like? I also liked how like they had this sort of like flirtatious vibe, her and Finny, but they never had that, you know, I'm gonna we're gonna go kiss now. Like, I yeah, I appreciated that it was like there in the background for a kid who's like for like this coming coming of age thing happening, right? Like, it's just enough to show that um to have that sort of vibe of of that.

SPEAKER_04 26:32

Did you think that Mondo was gonna end up being a bad guy? Because I definitely did for a minute.

SPEAKER_00 26:37

Uh yeah, there was like that first scene where he's talking about, oh yeah, I remember your mom.

SPEAKER_04 26:43

Like, I was like, Oh, it was and then when he like opens his Bible and he's got the pictures of the three kids, I was like, Are these like his trophies?

SPEAKER_00 26:50

Like, yeah, I think I think he's just tortured by the fact that he never found them or whatever, which he said.

SPEAKER_04 26:55

But I do think they intentionally set it up to make people go, Oh, yeah, can we trust this character?

SPEAKER_00 27:00

Uh yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_04 27:01

But then that snowman and then the like snowball face, that felt a little out of place. Oh, yeah. It's like, is this Jack Frost?

SPEAKER_00 27:11

Dude, I don't know. I liked it. I see, uh maybe I'm just letting it go. Like, I I thought what they did here in this movie was cool, and I think what what supports it so well is like the care I love these characters too. Like, I I cared about what happened to them. I cared about what happened to what's the sister's name?

SPEAKER_04 27:27

Gwen.

SPEAKER_00 27:28

Gwen, yeah. I was like, I don't want her to die. I want her to be okay. I don't want people to think she's crazy. I liked the boyfriend sort of like winning Finn over, um, you know, because he's giving him shit the whole time, basically. Like when he's when they're like confessing, yeah. Like serious conversation on the bed and Finn's awake the whole time listening.

SPEAKER_04 27:49

And then how like the response, he's like comments, and then they're like, What are you listening? He's like, Well, I'm right here, whatever it is he says.

SPEAKER_00 27:56

Yeah, I was like, this is great. Like, this is it felt like this is real people, it felt like these are real characters, and even in this crazy situation, knowing that Gwen is a sleepwalker, why wouldn't they tie her to the bed? Or why wouldn't they tell the people when she sleepwalk? Like, I guess I don't know, I've never really interacted with a sleepwalker before, maybe.

SPEAKER_04 28:18

I used to sleepwalk.

SPEAKER_00 28:20

Um did you tell people?

SPEAKER_04 28:22

I mean, it was when I was a kid. I don't think I've done it as an adult. Did they tie you to the bed?

SPEAKER_00 28:27

Uh no, but yeah, I'd never I there was this kid in college I would have full-on conversations with you in his sleep. He would like be lying down and then he'd get up and talk to you and then be like and go right back. It was like bizarre.

SPEAKER_04 28:39

That would that would creep me out.

SPEAKER_00 28:41

Yeah, it was kind of creepy. Um let's let's talk about the grabber.

SPEAKER_04 28:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:48

And that phone call.

SPEAKER_04 28:49

It's interesting, um when he was like, What do you think I want? and kept like leading him down that path, and I was like, Where's this gonna go? What does he want? What does the grabber want? And then he was just like, I wanna hurt you. It was like, Oh.

SPEAKER_00 29:05

But that's what he always wanted.

SPEAKER_04 29:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:08

See, that's the thing, I think and and it it's never really clear what he does to those kids. I hate saying this sentence in the first movie. But I guess I think you kind of sort of assume that it's partially sexual.

SPEAKER_04 29:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:23

But maybe not, maybe it's just physical abuse. Like maybe because you remember he like wants to catch him sneaking up the stairs, so he can be a hand in his hand. He wants to hit him. Like, I think he always he he his thing is like he wants to hurt these people physically. And so, like that's just I think in this movie more clear now that that's what his intention always was. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Um, I think that phone call is creepy. I think it's well written. I think it's really cool scene.

SPEAKER_04 29:51

I love how they shot it with him outside the phone booth talking to him, but Finney doesn't see him.

SPEAKER_00 29:57

Yes. I like how they did that multiple times with the kids.

SPEAKER_04 30:00

Yeah, affirmed for me because I wondered if sometimes in the first one if he could see the ghosts. Like it what like I it wasn't clear to me whether he saw them or not sometimes. And this one now made it clear to me like he does not see the ghosts, he just hears them.

SPEAKER_00 30:14

Yeah, and this was like one of my criticisms of the first movie where I I think I said in the last episode, like, I wish we weren't seeing the the dead, the ghosts as much, but then by the end of the movie, I was like, Oh, I'm glad we did, because we saw Robin like helping him swing the phone or whatever. This is just more support for that now in this movie. I think they did such a good job with showing them.

SPEAKER_04 30:34

One thing I didn't like is like when they finally go like looking for the boys and they go to Lake Mau, I think it was called.

SPEAKER_00 30:40

Um They're so good with names.

SPEAKER_04 30:42

It just looked Robin Arbitrare.

SPEAKER_00 30:44

What was his name?

SPEAKER_04 30:45

Robin Ariano.

SPEAKER_00 30:46

Ariano? Ariano.

SPEAKER_04 30:48

Ariano.

SPEAKER_00 30:49

See, you even know the exact like spelling.

SPEAKER_04 30:52

I do, but again, it was my sister's last name. Um but so Lake Maru. The one thing that I bought that bothered me about this is like we've talked in the past about like um reusing a set piece, and like they changed the name, but it looked exactly the fucking same as the other lake.

SPEAKER_00 31:09

Yeah, but it's a lake.

SPEAKER_01 31:11

I mean, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:14

You're probably like, this doesn't this is the same kind of damn lake.

SPEAKER_04 31:17

I I mean immediately I was like, oh well, you're just gonna move the booth and call it a different lake.

SPEAKER_00 31:24

I think it's true. The cops didn't find these bodies.

SPEAKER_04 31:27

Yeah. But it's I did though like hard to find them. Yeah. In the first one, I complained it didn't look like Colorado. And this one I was like, it does look like Colorado. Like, actually, like the lake setup looks like there's this town called Evergreen that's like the first town you hit when you drive into the mountains. It's like 15 minutes into the mountains, and they have a little mountain town, and right next to it is a lake that's not huge. But I was like, Oh, this looks like Evergreen during a storm. Yeah. Yeah. So I like that in a lot of things. But yeah, I was like, I can see the backdrop, like I can literally see this as a set, and what we're just gonna like call the lake a different name and pretend we didn't use the exact same set and pretend it was a location change. Okay, like why not just be like, let's look in the lake that's right in front of us.

SPEAKER_00 32:11

Yeah, no, I that that that is true. Like, I think it could have just been that lake the whole time. Yeah. Do you know?

SPEAKER_04 32:16

I mean, I guess it's like if boys did go missing from that camp, then it does make sense that they wouldn't search or that they would have searched that lake.

SPEAKER_00 32:23

They would have searched every lake. Yeah. That's around the era. It does that doesn't make sense. Why did the boys have to be in a lake? I think he did say something like, oh, there's a reason they didn't find, but like it's to me that's not believable. But yeah, I don't care. You know what I mean? Like I'm too there's too much going on in this movie for me to care about that that little detail. And you're right, like I think some of it is a little convenient. Like, I think it's super contrived that like they were both camp counselors.

SPEAKER_04 32:51

I yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:52

At this fucking thing. Like the grabber was here. Wait, no.

unknown 32:58

It is.

SPEAKER_00 32:59

Yeah, the grabber was. And it could have made total sense that like she didn't go to that camp, but she still had dreams about this guy doing this, and still went to that to his house to like try to stop it. Yeah. And then got killed by him. That makes sense. That the one thing it's like, why also have the connection of like, oh, we also went to the same count count as teenagers camp, the same camp as teenagers. It's just like that's one too many things. Yeah. And then the dad to be like, oh yeah, your mom went there. And it's just like, why is he so connected to the family now?

SPEAKER_04 33:39

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 33:39

It does that's stupid.

SPEAKER_04 33:41

Well, and the thing is, like, there you could do a million different connections that make it make more sense, like he actually was targeting the mom, but that ends up not being the case. It just is all supposed to be explained away as coincidence, and it's like then don't have all those connections.

SPEAKER_00 33:58

Yeah, 100%. Like, if he would have like had some crush on her or whatever, and when they're and then and then ended up killing her later, that makes more sense.

SPEAKER_03 34:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:05

But I think it would have worked fine with her just like with uh Gwen having the dream, showing the mom like getting up, going to the house where the where the grabber was keeping the kid, seeing the kid, and then getting caught by the grabber and and killed. Like you are you just need that because you're you already have the setup of the dream thing and the mom and and and the suicide and Gwen having the dreams. Like, you don't need that one extra thing of connection.

SPEAKER_04 34:26

It just that that was like the one plot point too that really drove me nuts in this one when he does attack the mom. I was like, okay, this was a surprise attack. He's just got his black balloons ready just in case.

SPEAKER_00 34:41

Well, you know, it was a dream. Like it was a dream. But it was like a dream of something that happened. Yeah, but like how I don't know, it's still a dream. But I guess you run into the yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 34:51

Uh well, finish your thought if it's about this.

SPEAKER_00 34:54

I guess you run into the the the issue of like if it has to be the murder victims of the grabber, then the grabber had to go to that camp and then to have the mom phone call thing. The mom also had to be. I don't know. It was just like I guess that had to work out that way, right?

SPEAKER_04 35:12

Because then you you I think here here's what I think is the problem. I think the problem is that Scott Derricson really did want to give Terrence, the dad, a redemption arc, and he weakened, he cheapened the plot in doing that.

SPEAKER_00 35:26

Yeah, but you need but you need the mom to send Gwen basically with the phone.

SPEAKER_04 35:29

Right, but that works if she worked at the camp.

SPEAKER_00 35:31

But the whole the grabber doesn't work because if the grabber, because then there has to be a different killer at the camp. Do you see what I'm saying? It can't be the grabber at the camp then.

SPEAKER_04 35:40

But I wouldn't have thought about the story at all if it hadn't then gone back to like, oh, the grabber actually killed mom. She didn't kill herself. Like, if that part hadn't been there, yeah, I wouldn't have felt like there are holes or conveniences that can cheapened the plot.

SPEAKER_00 35:58

I agree. Like, I yeah, and I wonder if they sat here just like we're doing right now and debated this because it is nice to have the mom not actually kill herself, especially with the scene at the end where she talks to her mom at the very end, which I think is an awesome scene.

SPEAKER_04 36:18

Um like if the mom had actually killed herself, it makes what Gwen is doing more brave and more powerful by leaning into this because I saw it, I would have seen it then as like this power drove the mom crazy, and she felt the need to escape herself, where like Gwen is so brave leaning into this and not letting it destroy her.

SPEAKER_00 36:42

Yeah, you're right, but at the same time, like she didn't know that it would have it either way, she's she's doing that for that reason, right? Like because she doesn't find out that her mom didn't kill herself until after she's already trying to not go crazy and to be brave or whatever. Um what do you think? Yeah, it's just yeah, it's just something that's just like a what do you think about how he shot the dream sequences? Uh I don't know. It bothered me a little bit. It was a little bit too grainy to me. That's what bothered me.

SPEAKER_04 37:17

Sinister. He shot it on a super eight. That's what I I I looked up afterwards who they shot it on a super eight.

SPEAKER_00 37:22

See, did he though? Because like it looks like someone's trying to pretend that he shot it on a on a super eight.

SPEAKER_04 37:26

No, so he shot it on a super eight. The I read a thing about like how he did these shots intentionally um and didn't like use like effects in editing or anything like that, um, with the intention of making the dream sequences look like super eight, but it it took I understand wanting to like have a signifier when you're transitioning from from dream world to you know back and forth.

SPEAKER_00 37:49

It doesn't have to be this, but it could be anything, but yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:51

But it was too abrupt. Like, I literally think that like right when it happened, like Chloe was like, Oh, are we buffering? Are we losing our signal?

SPEAKER_00 38:02

I think it would have done a favor if they had changed the aspect ratio too. Like 'cause in Sinister, I think, and I don't, it's been a while. Like, I think they shoot it super eight, but they I think it looks like a home movie, like on a projector. It's not like it's the exact same uh aspect ratio of the as the film is, right? Or maybe I'm wrong. Or there's a sound effect there that's like yeah, like the camera reels, yeah. Yeah, but I yeah, I agree. I think it bothered me visually. I and I think if they would have done something with an aspect ratio or something that made it look clearly like this isn't just my internet buffering wrong, or whatever.

SPEAKER_04 38:42

You know, like you got used to it once you figured out what was going on.

SPEAKER_00 38:45

Totally, but it still bothered me though. It's still ugly to look at, yeah. Yeah, like sometimes I liked how that looks, like super eight, but and for whatever reason, it looked bad. It was like lit bad or something, and and yeah, it was just it was an ugly sort of yeah, you know what I mean? Like it made it ugly. Um, but the everything else I thought looked great. Like, I think it even looked better than the first movie as far as like the non-flashback scenes, like especially in the setting that they were at.

SPEAKER_04 39:11

I did really like the setting of this one.

SPEAKER_00 39:13

Yeah, I love this, like, yeah, I thought the setting was dope. I love any kind of horror movie where like all of your your characters are like isolated somewhere. Like, I think that's always cool. Um, some of my favorite horror movies like that. I mean, some of the fit greatest horror movies of all time, like Now of the Living Dead and The Shining. The Shining, and yeah, like isolate your characters, and then it also gives you more of an excuse to do things that in real life you wouldn't be able to do. Like, why don't they just go get the cops?

SPEAKER_04 39:41

Or why don't they just, you know, why aren't their cell phones working?

SPEAKER_00 39:43

Exactly. Why don't they just run away? Or like, yeah, yeah, exactly. So I I like that. Um let's talk about the supernatural stuff because it goes nuts in this movie, like real nuts. Nuts where like she's like throwing her around in in the dream that the grabber is.

SPEAKER_04 40:01

I I read that they shot that scene, um, like they like it, it was like a practical effect. Uh I I mean it looks like and she did the stunt herself, and that's cool. Yeah, I liked that.

SPEAKER_00 40:13

But did you did it because then they flash to like what the people are seeing not asleep in the real life. And she's flying around, she's flying around the room and shit.

SPEAKER_04 40:22

They had that in the trailer, so immediately when I saw the trailer. So you already knew about it. I was like, oh, this looks like it's gonna like be like very like Freddy Krueger-ish.

SPEAKER_00 40:30

The trailer's no idea. So that just happens.

SPEAKER_04 40:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:34

I'm surprised they showed that in the trailer.

SPEAKER_04 40:37

Go back and watch the trailer because I remember when the trailer came out. Like the first one was a good movie, but I don't think it was really scary. When we saw the trailer, we were like, oh fuck, this one's gonna be really scary. And I actually did not feel that way, and maybe it's because we didn't feel any suspense when she's getting I felt suspense, but I didn't think it was scary. And I think, but I think part of that problem is that we did see it in the trailer, and so maybe, yeah. Maybe like because the creepiest reveals like we saw the phone call with Finney and the grabber in the trailer, you know?

SPEAKER_00 41:07

Oh man, that sucks.

SPEAKER_04 41:08

We like the biggest surprises and the craziest, like aha.

SPEAKER_00 41:12

This is why you don't watch trailers of horror movies. I had none of oh idea, like I had no idea what was gonna happen in this movie. When she started flying around the room, I was like, holy shit, this is like next level shit. Like, I can't believe they're doing this. Like, I wish that was a surprise to people because to have my reaction. I guess you run the risk of like people thinking it's super silly, then if they don't already know that this is gonna happen in the movie.

SPEAKER_04 41:33

Because like I could see people watching that and being like, This is which like like in the last uh episode, I was telling you how like when we were loosely talking about this one, and I told you the only people I knew saw it was like my 15-year-old niece and her friends. And what she told us is that they just like she said she was confused because she hadn't seen the first one, but that like some of these things they were like laughing a lot at.

SPEAKER_00 41:53

Yeah, yeah, I could see people doing that, yeah. And I get it. I mean, it looks silly, and actually, while I was watching the movie, and I like it, like I thought it was cool. I I was thinking to myself, like, if I was doing a movie like this and this was happening, there's no other way to film this, just do it, just have them floating around the room. What else are you gonna do? Like, you either commit to that being what's happening or you don't do it at all. Yeah, and I don't know if there's like a less silly way, because it always looks weird. When people are finding invisible people, do you know what I mean? It always looks silly.

SPEAKER_04 42:22

It's there's no way around it for me. The one that kills me is when people are like using like their telepathy and just like holding their hand out, yeah. Like how do you act out, like oh yeah, yeah, but it's funny. I always like typically I'm always like, you have to see horror in the theater, like it's a full yeah, it's a better experience in the theater. But with this one, I actually was glad that I watched it at home because I think if I had seen it, I would have laughed at some of that stuff and I would have found it more ridiculous. Where instead I was like at home uh in a smaller, more contained environment in the dark, and it was like very yeah, like I because I didn't have people around me laughing, I didn't laugh. I was just like that's creepy.

SPEAKER_00 43:02

Yeah, this was a great movie to watch. I have like this a 65-inch like nice big ball of ass thing, and like for this movie, it was perfect.

SPEAKER_04 43:12

Benjamin Ballin.

SPEAKER_00 43:14

Um what was I gonna say though?

SPEAKER_04 43:18

What'd you think of the grabber ice skating?

SPEAKER_00 43:20

But here's the thing, real quick, hang on, before you before we get there, because I do want to talk about that. The ideas though for this movie are to me earned where even when it was silly, I was like, I don't care. Because yeah, they set up this dream thing in the first movie, we've expanded on this movie. It's like now that now the grabbers back and seemingly invincible and can get them in their her and their dreams at least. Like the stakes are higher, it feels more like okay, like this is on. So to see her flying around to me, I'm like, I don't know how else she would film this, and I just I'm in because of the idea of all this that I don't care. Like it does look silly. I mean, it looks silly to me, but I don't care. That's how it would look. If your friend was getting attacked in the dreams, that's how it will look. And if you think about the first Friday or um Nightmare on Elm Street scene, she's like on the fucking rolling around on the ceiling. Yeah. So like this isn't even a new thing that's that movies have done.

SPEAKER_04 44:12

So I like again, I don't have any issues with the story, how they were able to. I think it's brilliant how they were able to make a sequel out of it. I love how they leaned into being way more supernatural. Um and that they didn't try to rein it in, they just fully went with it. Yeah. Like literally the issues that I have are all more production related with like the set. And like, I mean, honestly, her effects with her spinning, like that didn't bother me. Like it wasn't like this is silly, but I did think, oh, I bet this is like one of those scenes where all the teens were laughing.

SPEAKER_00 44:44

I agree with you. I think that you know, take away my ability to sort of like accept things for what they are because I like an idea of a movie. Like, if this movie was shot with bigger budget and they were and they did more for the set and stuff, like it would have been more of a classic. Like we'd be watching this movie like 10 years later.

SPEAKER_04 44:59

It felt more low budget to me.

SPEAKER_00 45:02

It should it it felt low budget than it should be, especially based on the success of the first one.

SPEAKER_04 45:07

Like the first one, it's like it can be low budget, they didn't have to have a lot going on. But this one you're expanding upon that you know you had a success with the first one. Why did this one look like a low budget film?

SPEAKER_00 45:18

Because that's Blumhouse, that's what they do.

SPEAKER_04 45:20

Blumhouse really knows how to fucking make low budget horror, but I mean, was it Jamie Lee Curtis who I was telling you? Who was like, Yeah, I don't work with Blumhouse anymore because they don't pay. Why do you think they are so good at making low budget movies and making so much fucking money?

SPEAKER_00 45:33

Yeah. I mean, it's a shame. I I think they did a pretty good job overall, but I I agree. I wish it was. Do you remember the ring? Like, remember what was that? That seemed big budget at the time. Like that movie looks great.

SPEAKER_04 45:45

I just recently rewatched that actually. I hadn't seen it in years.

SPEAKER_00 45:48

But that's what I want horror. Like horror movies have entered this phase where like they're all low budget again. And we went through a brief phase in like the 90s where like they were getting budgets. And I think about the ring, and I think about what lies beneath, and I think about like these other movies that I think. I think what lies beneath was like a huge budget. I think it was like one of the biggest budget, yeah. Yeah, I know, right? It's probably just went to them.

unknown 46:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 46:16

I can't even imagine.

SPEAKER_00 46:17

Yeah. Um, yeah, I see, I like the supernatural stuff. I I think it was interesting, like once you got like cut and stuff. Um, but then if you think about it, when he's ice skating around and hitting other people, that the does that make sense?

SPEAKER_04 46:37

It um it takes you out of it for a minute.

SPEAKER_00 46:39

Like she's in he's in her dream, so she can get hurt. I get that, but he can interact with the real world. With anybody, yeah, he can just go around. What if her dream wasn't there? What if her dream was like in London? Can he kill people in London?

SPEAKER_01 46:53

Was he Jack the Ripper? Do you know what I'm saying? Like it's got the Jack the Ripper.

SPEAKER_04 47:01

Yeah, that was well. I also, it was like you're just gonna force yourself into a dream right now. That's convenient.

SPEAKER_00 47:08

Well, I mean, I'm sure she was tired. Yeah, but they were plowing that that ice, you know? Yeah, yeah. They're shoveling snow all day. Yeah, I'm okay with that. I thought because I thought she just fell asleep on accident.

SPEAKER_04 47:23

Fair. But also, like, you'd think as soon as she started, like, the well, I guess it they don't have five-hour energy in Red Bull back then, but I do like it's funny.

SPEAKER_00 47:32

I do like the scene overall, I think it's cool. I think it's scene is cool, but when you when you sit there and you think about it, it really doesn't make any sense unless he's somehow able to like make her dream of a certain location. Because then it's all about someone falling asleep. He otherwise, why can't he just do that at any moment? Yeah, like it just it sort of breaks a little bit. Yeah, I didn't catch that. I didn't catch it.

SPEAKER_03 47:57

I didn't catch it, but now I'm like I didn't either, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:00

Um thinking about it, it's like this, yeah, this is whatever. Cam sandwich.

SPEAKER_04 48:08

Um, I did read that uh in the original ending, uh the kids just I guess like pull them into the water, and the test audiences um thought that the grabber did not have enough comeuppance. Uh so this was the only thing that they went back and reshot after production had finished, and they added in like his leg getting was it chopped or ripped or whatever, like all the like violent stuff. They like made it way more violent than it was because of the test audiences. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:37

That's cool.

SPEAKER_04 48:38

I get I mean, I guess I didn't need it though. Like I would have been just fine with those kids just dragging him. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 48:43

Like I liked that Gwen had her moment and Finn had his moment there. I I think I like that. I enjoy that as a movie goer, as a like a B movie fan.

SPEAKER_04 48:53

Like they get to get their revenge.

SPEAKER_00 48:54

Yeah, they get to like fuck you, you abusing motherfucker. You know what I mean? Like, I like the same reason why I loved his line in the first movie where he's like, it's for you after he like chokes him to death or whatever. I like that. Like, give me something as a as a movie going fan.

SPEAKER_04 49:08

I did feel like um, you know, we talked in the first one how they had changed the end ending a little bit, where like you were supposed to kind of see the boys like released from their purgatory or whatever. Um, and they did kind of end up doing that in this one, and I actually think it worked okay, where I don't think it would have worked in the first one.

SPEAKER_00 49:25

Yeah, I agree. I think something about this one, maybe it's because there were less of them, I don't know, but or there was a more emphasis on them and you were seeing them more like over and over again, maybe that's why. But yeah, for some reason it it worked for me too.

SPEAKER_04 49:39

And maybe it's just because it was set up, like the point was the point of this one was freeing those boys' souls. Where in the first one, that's not what the point is, or if it is, I completely missed it. But the first one I was like, oh, these ghosts are helping Finney. Oh, he by getting him caught, he he freed him. But it wasn't like it wasn't played like Finney needed to help those boys. Yeah, you're right.

SPEAKER_00 50:05

I guess he's helping them by killing, by killing him.

SPEAKER_04 50:09

Yeah. He's like released him, but okay, why and they release and they release the kids.

SPEAKER_00 50:14

Now that I'm thinking about it, I'm poking plot holes now. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 50:17

Why when he killed the grabber, if those boys were released, why weren't these other boys? Because the body has to be found.

SPEAKER_00 50:25

I assume so, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 50:26

So how many other kids are there that the grabbers killed? What are we gonna get in the sequel?

SPEAKER_00 50:30

Well, I was thinking about that because like you can go a couple ways with this now. Like you could just have hit them, the two of them being like these ghost hunters that you know, Finn's picking up the phone hearing what they need is.

SPEAKER_04 50:40

Would you introduce like a completely new villain?

SPEAKER_00 50:42

Yeah. I I like to here's the thing like that sounds cool. I mean, I guess that's sort of supernaturalist, like the show or supernatural-esque. But um, I think that's cool. I mean, they they've kind of set up the rules of this world uh in a way, like do we need another one? No, but like I it could be cool if you do it right. Like, it could be cool to see Finn and and Gwen teaming up and helping the dead, helping the dead, you know? Because it's sort of like Sixth Sense Meets Nightmare on Elm Street in a way. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 51:10

And then the third one could lean into Ghostbusters, answer the call.

SPEAKER_00 51:14

Maybe he just has like a landline phone on his hip at all times, you know? And it just starts to ring, and it's like someone like, I don't remember who I am. Help me.

SPEAKER_04 51:24

I do really like that element of how they portray this, like the purgatory calls.

SPEAKER_00 51:30

Uh I love that. That's the best part. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 51:33

Like, I don't remember my name, it's dark, it's cold, whatever. Like that makes it scary. That's one of the like more cerebral scary moments for me.

SPEAKER_00 51:42

Yeah. And that's where this, like, I think that's where they the jumping off point for where this movie ended up, because they were like, Well, if a dead person can call him, technically the killer could call him now that he's dead. Like, yeah, there's so many things that you open this opens now in a in an interesting way. Like, and then the what'd you think of the mom phone call at the end? Where the mom calls the phone and then he's like, she's like, it's my note, and he's like, he doesn't he doesn't hear it ringing, and he's like, it must be for you, or whatever.

SPEAKER_04 52:09

My exact note was kinda hate the mom call.

SPEAKER_00 52:14

Oh, really? I I liked it.

SPEAKER_04 52:16

I felt like it just it wasn't necessary. It felt more like trying too hard to wrap everything up on a silver platter for the audience. I don't need that. Yeah. Imply it. I don't need to see it.

SPEAKER_00 52:32

I guess so, but I think at the same time, like I would that'd be cool if I got a call from my mom.

SPEAKER_04 52:36

Fair.

SPEAKER_00 52:38

Like, I think the fact that they were so young when she died, the fact that Gwen had inherited this curse, where she says something like, I how do you it's not a curse?

SPEAKER_04 52:46

It was never a curse. I did like that.

SPEAKER_00 52:49

Like, and then she's like, Tell your brother I love him, or whatever. Like, also, what you can't call your brother, you can't call your son? What the fuck?

SPEAKER_04 52:54

He doesn't want to talk to ghosts.

SPEAKER_00 52:56

That's rude. He put on a speaker. I don't understand.

SPEAKER_01 52:59

Um did they have speaker back then?

SPEAKER_00 53:01

Was that alluding to the phone, the fact that he won't get phone calls anymore? Like, I don't know. Or is it just this one was not for him? So because he heard the one that was ringing for Ethan Hawk in the first place.

SPEAKER_04 53:11

So does he only hear calls related to the grabber? No, because it's implied that he just keeps getting calls all the time now. So victims, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:20

Yeah, it's actually better than like what Hayley Joel Osman had in Sixth Sense, where like they're just like showing up in his bedroom. Like at least the phone is ringing and he can ignore it.

unknown 53:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:30

Instead of just like waking up and there'd be a dead person next to you.

SPEAKER_01 53:33

Oh man.

SPEAKER_00 53:34

You know? Anyway. Okay, so final thoughts of this. Like, I I actually think this is a cool movie. I liked it a lot. I liked it as much as I like the first one. I think it's cool that they're two completely different vibes. I like that the first film is smaller and this one is much expanded. It feels like to me like a T2, T1 situation.

SPEAKER_04 53:53

The world is expanded, but that's the thing, though. Is like my issue is that it's supposed to be an expanded world, but it felt like um one. But the rules are expanded, I guess. Yeah. The rules have expanded. The world we got to see, I felt like actually became more isolated.

SPEAKER_00 54:09

Smaller.

SPEAKER_04 54:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:11

But I think you we we get a lot more of the sister, we get a lot more Finn. Like their characters are definitely changing and growing and developing. For better or worse, we have a lot more of the dad. Like, I think the first movie was such a simple story, and it was just about film stuck in that place. And the and the small bits of the relationship between the brother and sister got were really cool, right? But this one we have full-on arcs with these characters, and we have full-on scenes. Like, I love the scene where he's outside and I forget his name, but the camp camp guy sits next to him, right? And like he's like smoking weed or whatever, and they're like having that moment together. Yeah, like that's such a cool scene, too. Like, I I love when movies and Stephen King always does this too, and so I think it's uh it makes sense that his son would too. But like they're saying so much more about it's not just about the scary shit that happens, it's about life, about growing up, it's about facing your fears, it's about not rejecting the call of responsibility, it's about all these, it's about sacrifice, it's about all these things, right? In this one little horror movie that you're seeing these characters do. Because like a million times like even the fucking boyfriend character with the glasses, the fact that he just stuck around while all that shit when his like girlfriend's floating around the world, like in the air and shit.

SPEAKER_04 55:20

Well, I like I I mean, obviously, he wanted to get to to have some answers about his brother. Um I like that he always believed the two. It wasn't like could he or could he not? But I like that he always believes the supernatural elements with him. It wasn't a question, and I like that it didn't feel like he was only hanging around to get answers with his brother. Like he did genuinely like Gwen.

SPEAKER_00 55:44

Yeah, and I love when he asks him flat out, like, so did that shit happen? Like you got phone calls from from dead kids. Yeah. You talk to my brother or whatever. I and he's like, Yeah, I did. Yeah, that shit's cool. Anyway, I don't know. I liked it.

SPEAKER_04 55:59

I mean, you wrapped it up so nicely. Now I'm gonna be like, yeah, it was good.

SPEAKER_00 56:04

No, I mean, yeah, I I agree with what you're saying. Like, I think I think I'm being kind to this movie, maybe. I I got a little bit of blinders on for it, but you just gotta heart on the Joe Hill. I have a big imagination too. So when like crazy ideas like this happen, I just that excites me more than like, oh, here's just another horror movie again.

SPEAKER_04 56:22

I really liked this movie. I thought it was a really good sequel. I don't think it was as good as the first one. Um they did feel a little disconnected to me at times, but I think the idea for how they executed a sequel was brilliant, really, really smart, and then they just fully leaned into that, and I respect that. I just yeah hated that I could see the set every time they were on the fucking lake.

SPEAKER_00 56:47

Yeah, that sucks.

SPEAKER_04 56:49

Because once you notice it, you don't unnotice it for the rest of the year.

SPEAKER_00 56:52

I gotta watch it again now, and because I don't know how I missed that. Um because you were so into the story because you you have no idea what you were gonna get. So you were just pulling up. They're all great actors. This movie's full of great actors. Oh, yeah. All of them, everyone. Yeah, I would agree. They're fantastic. Um what do you think? Do you think they'll do another one and what what do you want to see?

SPEAKER_04 57:14

Uh I don't think I can't imagine Scott Derricson if he wasn't even that interested in the second one until I bet he was Joel Hillson that idea. I I mean maybe Joe. But it was told like he wanted to move on to other things, wasn't interested in developing the sequel. Um I think if they do a third one, I do think it probably would be more of a blumhouse pushed sequel and not hit the same notes, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_00 57:44

Yeah, I can see those concerns there. I have two thoughts. I think one that either this is gonna make this feel like Scott Derrickson? Dickinson? Derrickson, thank you. I want to say Dickinson. Um Scott Derrickson. Uh maybe this is like his baby now and he wants to keep expanding on it.

SPEAKER_04 58:03

Mm-hmm. But isn't he working on more sinister stuff?

SPEAKER_00 58:07

I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. I have no idea.

SPEAKER_04 58:10

I I don't know either. But it is funny, right? Oh, okay, I do have to tell you this, even though we're kind of wrapping it up, but I was laughing right when um the credits started. Yeah. And Chloe goes, okay, immediately this movie feels like it's trying too hard.

SPEAKER_01 58:26

It was the same credits as last time.

SPEAKER_04 58:28

I don't know. It felt it felt so different. And then she didn't know that Scott.

SPEAKER_00 58:32

It wasn't, and I remember thinking to myself, oh, the mo the side of a wall again and the door.

SPEAKER_04 58:38

She didn't know that Scott Derrickson did Sinister, though. So literally, like we're watching it and we're five minutes in and she's like, This looks like Sinister. And I was like, Yeah, same same director.

SPEAKER_00 58:46

It does, but it doesn't like there's is there a lot of he's watching films in that he's not having dreams, like he's watching Super 8 films. Yeah, but he's watching the murders happen on film or whatever. In this, they're just dream sequences.

SPEAKER_04 59:02

This does make me want to go watch. I I haven't seen any of the sequels to Sinister. Is there only two of them? I don't even know.

SPEAKER_00 59:08

I only I've only seen the first one.

SPEAKER_04 59:09

But the first one blew my mind.

SPEAKER_00 59:11

Yeah, the first one was good. I remember being really scared actually the first time I watched that. Um there's nothing that I see on his wiki about what he's doing next, Derrickson. This was the most recent thing. Oh. Wait, wait, let me Future. Here's a future paragraph. In October 2025, Derrickson stated that he would only develop a third film if the story can be better than the previous two installments. He wants the series to be quality over quantity. Hawk also expressed interest in reprising his villainous role in a sequel, stating he would like to explore the background story of the grabber. I guess you could have those two characters trying, yeah, like investigating his history and here's the thing though.

SPEAKER_04 59:55

If we're going with the grabber's backstory and we're getting a de-aged Ethan Hawke.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:00

I don't know. I think what you do is you you have like the kids nowadays, present day, teaming up and it becomes an investigation movie about like let's find the other murders that he's committed and free those kids too.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:14

That'd be cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:16

Like a supernatural detective situation.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:20

I like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:22

I don't want to see D.H. Deathan Hawk either. But he he has to be. We didn't actually see him in motion, though, it was just like his photo.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:34

Yeah, but I like but I well, we saw him taking her with the balloons when I was like, why does he have a bunch of balloons blown up for uh accidental taking? Because he's the he's a magician. I which also okay, I'm so fucking dumb. I didn't like I was like, Oh, cool, he's a magician. We talked about how like that's a cool idea, but it was like, duh, abracadabra, he makes kids disappear. Oh my god, I'm such an idiot that I didn't get that until like two days later.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:00

I didn't think about that either. That's funny though. Where's your kid? Now you see him, now you don't.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:06

Yep. It makes so much sense for a kidnapper to be a magician.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:10

Yeah. Though you think you well, that's why they couldn't find those bodies for so long.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:14

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:15

It's getting dark. There's some dark humor we got going on. All right. Well, that's our thoughts. Black phone two. I like you should see it. Yeah. If you like the first one, if you like supernatural movies, watch this movie. It's dope. I think it's really cool.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:32

Yeah. Tell tell tell us if you can see the set and are distracted by it now that I've called that out.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:38

And let us know what you think about the flash or the dream sequences.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:41

Yes. And if you don't know where to let us know, Instagram. That's the only place we be communicating with the peoples.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:48

We don't we never tell people what our Instagram is.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:51

Slasherbash pod, I think. I don't know. I mean, if you look up Slasherbash podcast on Instagram, you'll find us.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:56

Isn't it slasherbash underscore pod?

SPEAKER_04 1:01:59

Yeah, but I mean if if somebody puts in slasher bash, they're gonna find us, right? Yeah, slasher bash underscore pod.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:04

I mean, right now, maybe.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:06

Hop on there, let's do some debating about the grabber. Let's really debate about the scream films. I'm getting real heavy in the debates right now.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:15

Don't be pissing people off.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:17

I'm not pissing people off. I'm just trying to point out holes in the screen.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:20

You might be pissing off what's her name from True Romance and Scream 7.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:26

Yeah. What? Who? The girl, the the killer. She's in true romance.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:32

Wasn't she? Yeah, I think she's in true romance. No, true, true blood. Sorry, my bad.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:37

Oh, she was in true blood, that's right.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:40

I just always remember her from uh the a cappella movies. What are those?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:46

Never seen them. Pitch perfect?

SPEAKER_04 1:02:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:49

No. I I've only seen her in true blood.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:51

I'm I'm utterly shocked you're not a fan of the a cappella movies.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:56

I feel like I would be, actually. I just never seen them. Check 'em out. Um all right. Thanks everyone. Thanks for listening. Thanks for listening. Bye. Peace.