Heretic: Is this flick as deep as it wants to be?

This week on Slasher Bash, Maddi and Ben talk about the new trailers for Practical Magic 2 and Clayface before diving deep into their review of Heretic. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:25

Let's do this, bitch. What's up, everybody, and welcome to Slasher Bash, the podcast. The podcast where we critique a horror movie franchise movie by movie. I'm still used to saying it that way now.

SPEAKER_00 0:36

Like, I don't just say it. It's fine.

SPEAKER_02 0:38

Like, I do want to change it, that intro, but uh, it just comes out of my mouth now.

SPEAKER_00 0:43

What about like the podcast where two friends talk horror?

SPEAKER_02 0:47

Yeah, I mean something along those lines, right?

SPEAKER_00 0:49

You know, I'll be drunk sometimes. Slash or bash the podcast.

SPEAKER_02 0:53

Maybe we don't have to have any slogan. We can just like go right into it. Did you say horse?

SPEAKER_00 0:57

Horse.

SPEAKER_02 0:58

Or whores.

SPEAKER_00 0:58

Horse, yes, I said horse.

SPEAKER_02 1:00

Horror whores. That was one of my ideas for our podcast name.

SPEAKER_00 1:03

Horror whores?

SPEAKER_02 1:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05

Oh, that would have been fun.

SPEAKER_02 1:06

Right? Or horror is what's spelled with like WH. That would have been a good one.

SPEAKER_00 1:11

I also really when I thought about that um Friday on Elm Street. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that was I'd thought of that before. I'm sure it has, though.

SPEAKER_02 1:20

That one kind of sounds like like, you know, Mad Magazine's like parody of slasher movies.

SPEAKER_00 1:26

True, true.

SPEAKER_02 1:27

Nightmare on on what was it? No. Friday. What was it called? What was your name again? Friday on Elm Street. Friday on Elm Street last summer.

SPEAKER_00 1:39

I know what you did last Friday on Elm Street.

SPEAKER_02 1:44

Yeah. And it's a podcast, it's like a gossip podcast with all the all the storylines is like made up about horror movie characters.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

Oh, that'd be kind of fun.

SPEAKER_02 1:53

Remember that show, that cartoon Clone High, where they like they cloned famous historical figures and put them all in high school together?

SPEAKER_00 1:59

Oh, but that sounds awesome.

SPEAKER_02 2:00

It was like this Bill Lawrence animated thing on MTV, like, or maybe it was Comedy Central, uh, back in like the 90s or 2000s. And the idea is like, what if you put all these famous people together but they were all teenage years old? Like, who would be cool?

SPEAKER_00 2:12

Who would be like I want to like go look that up on YouTube and watch it?

SPEAKER_02 2:16

We should do that with horror movies like killers, you know? Like Jason and and Freddie like hanging out in high school.

SPEAKER_00 2:22

Uh that'd be fun. Hell yeah. I also really want to do sometime if if Scream just was a complete reboot and basically a remake of the first film. Yeah. Who would you cast nowadays?

SPEAKER_02 2:38

I like that a lot. Same characters then. Like 100% remake. Same exact characters.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

Yep. Who would you cast?

SPEAKER_02 2:44

We should do that, maybe uh some special episode.

SPEAKER_00 2:47

Which speaking of, um I was read well, uh not reading, I was listening to one of my YouTubers that I follow was talking about news that he heard about Scream 8. Shout out to Beyond the Mask. I listened to all his shit because he has lots of information before anyone else does. Nice. But apparently Paramount moving forward with the Scream franchise, like wants uh every episode to be an anthology. Is that the right word when they're like standalone episodes, basically?

SPEAKER_02 3:20

Like, is that official though?

SPEAKER_00 3:21

I mean, I I know that like he he said it's not official, but the person who he got the information from is the person who leaked all the Scream 7 information that he had, and it was like all correct. So I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 3:32

We should talk about that at some point, like for real.

SPEAKER_00 3:36

Yeah, it's it's interesting it's that direction where they're like all standalone films now and not like because that's why. Do you want that?

SPEAKER_02 3:42

I don't want to see I don't want to see anything.

SPEAKER_00 3:45

I don't want that at all because like that's the whole reason that Scream has been my favorite franchise over all these others, is like, you know, you got Halloween and you've got Nightmare on Elm Street and all these franchises that have a shit ton of movies, but like they don't all have one through line, and Scream has always had its storyline connected in one way or another. And I'm sad to lose that.

SPEAKER_02 4:06

What if they swapped through line and instead of like same protagonist, different antagonist, they just made it the same antagonist, different protagonist? That could be interesting, like Halloween or like Friday the 13th, right? Like where maybe you see more of well, I think we should we should shove this discussion. Okay, and actually have like we should gather all the rumors and leaks and whatever.

SPEAKER_00 4:29

And we'll just do like a scream and just do like screaming. Exactly. Yeah, perfect.

SPEAKER_02 4:34

Because like, yeah, I didn't hear that, and I have a lot of instant reaction right now to that, and I don't want to just spew out word vomit.

SPEAKER_00 4:41

Unprepared. You're such a professional. God damn prepared.

SPEAKER_02 4:45

Well, I didn't know we were gonna you were gonna bring that up.

SPEAKER_00 4:47

I didn't either. I just watched it today.

SPEAKER_02 4:49

Okay, well, anyway, I'm Ben. We're here to talk about uh Heretic, the 2024 film with Hugh Grant. But before we do that, there's a couple things I think that were uh two trailers dropped this week that I think we want to just give a quick shout out to. One of which was Clayface, and we'll talk to I think that one second, and then Practical Magic 2, which, if nobody knows, Practical Magic 1 is like one of your favorite movies, right? Am I out of line for saying that?

SPEAKER_00 5:24

No, not at all. Um I can't rank like my top five films, I can't put in order. Actually, my top three. Like we've got Sleepless in Seattle, Practical Magic, and Scream, and they're interchangeable.

SPEAKER_02 5:36

What an amazing sort of spectrum of films.

SPEAKER_00 5:40

I've got a lot of interesting tastes. I think people think I'm just like a horror girly now because this is what we talk about all the time now. But I'm actually like, well, you know, sleepless in Seattle is my favorite movie.

SPEAKER_02 5:52

Well, practical magic's like in between those two. So exactly blending. But I just wanted so that trailer came out this week. I had no idea that movie was coming. I'm sure you did.

SPEAKER_00 6:02

Oh yeah. I've been following everything about it. I don't think people realize though that um, you know, everybody knows practical magic was a book, but I don't know if people realize that it actually became four books.

SPEAKER_02 6:14

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

And this one is following the last book, which I I've read, I've obviously read all of them. Um I love You've read the books. Oh, yeah. Alice Hoffman. I'm not making fun of you. Alice Hoffman, the author, is like I own every single one of her books. I yeah, I love her writing. Okay. Everything has like a witchy or mystical, magical element to it. So I've always loved her writing.

SPEAKER_02 6:41

Nice.

SPEAKER_00 6:41

Um, but this last book that wraps it up, I don't think most people going into it ha are familiar with the story. So I I know from what I've read that they're following this book, and so there's like gonna be some huge shockers for the people who haven't read the book, but it's like the most perfect. If they follow the book even somewhat closely, it's like the most perfect way to wrap this story up. It's so fucking good.

SPEAKER_02 7:08

So so you're excited. You think so?

SPEAKER_00 7:11

Based on what you saw, there are shots in the trailer that I saw that I'm like, it's gonna be the same ending and it's gonna be epic and emotional. It's gonna be See.

SPEAKER_02 7:22

I didn't even know there was like I just thought it was just some random sort of rom-com. I think most people did. That's what that's what I'm saying. Is I don't think people have any idea. So they're just skipping the first two, the second and third book, I guess. Or you think they'll obviously have to reference that in this movie.

SPEAKER_00 7:36

So the books are kind of interchangeable in how you read them, besides practical magic and this last one. But the other two, one is um a prequel about their ancestor Maria.

SPEAKER_02 7:46

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:47

Um, and how she kind of how the family came, the Owens came to be in Massachusetts and all of that. And then the other one is when the sisters, um, Jet and Franny are growing up in New York before they uh I think they inherited the house in Massachusetts. So it's they're growing up in New York with their brother. And that one, HBO, actually was developing as a series, and for some reason it didn't go through, which I was really bummed about because it was, I mean, I the their outfit.

SPEAKER_02 8:15

But they would have recast it with like younger people, basically, right?

SPEAKER_00 8:18

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:20

Um, but I I mean I've I've read every single one of her books.

SPEAKER_02 8:24

They're not all hits for me, but like they would have turned that into euphoria with witches. You know what I mean? Like maybe you're probably lucky that that didn't come out.

SPEAKER_00 8:31

Yeah, yeah, that's true. Euphoria really likes to or Euphoria. HBO really loves to be like Reuphoria. Let's let's make this as fucking crazy as we can. Let's take this one weird idea and make it.

SPEAKER_02 8:42

Like, I love the first season of Euphoria. I haven't watched any of the new ones. I just think that HBO would have tried to make something like really relevant and modernize the hell out of it.

SPEAKER_00 8:51

Well, you know, what they were supposed to make that didn't go through, but we're it's coming out in August, so we're gonna have to cover is when you finally read the goddamn book, the Brett Easton Ellis book I want you to read.

SPEAKER_02 9:01

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:02

What's it called again?

SPEAKER_00 9:06

Uh The Shards.

SPEAKER_02 9:07

The Shard. I knew it started with an S.

SPEAKER_00 9:09

Not the Shards, The Shards. Like the Shards of his fractured personality. Oh it's like Breast East and East and Ellis' uh split fic fictional memoir about his time in high school. You'll love it because all the Hollywood like his references references. Yes, you're gonna love it. Um but he was developing it at HBO and then they split up over creative differences, and I was so bummed because I was like, fuck, this show's not gonna be made now, and I really want it to be made. And Ryan Murphy ended up taking it over and developing it at Fox. So I'm like, this is gonna be I don't know if I'm gonna like it or not.

SPEAKER_02 9:48

I the first episode will be amazing, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:50

And then I'll handle it. That that tends to happen with his shows.

SPEAKER_02 9:57

Anyway, so okay. So about so I I guess there's not much to talk about. You say it's gonna follow this book, you're excited. You think it looks good based on what we saw on the trailer? Because I have no, I've never even seen the first movie. So I What? Yeah, I know. I might have caught like parts of it on TBS growing up or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 10:14

My wife walked down the aisle to Crystal from the movie.

SPEAKER_02 10:18

Um I don't know what that means. Is that a song? It's a song, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:21

Stevie Stevie Next did the song for the movie. Yeah, and so Chloe.

SPEAKER_02 10:25

She's a fan as well.

SPEAKER_00 10:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 10:26

Or did you make her do no?

SPEAKER_00 10:28

She's a fan.

SPEAKER_02 10:28

Um I will walk down to this song. God damn it.

SPEAKER_00 10:32

No, Chloe and I watch this movie constantly. I watch this movie way more than anything else because we both just love it. And then we were actually gonna have Midnight Margaritas at our wedding because of this movie, which That's what they do, I guess. You'll you'll know what it is when you're well.

SPEAKER_02 10:48

They said in something about margaritas in the trailer.

SPEAKER_00 10:50

It's midnight somewhere.

SPEAKER_02 10:53

Okay, cool. Well, that's coming out, so we'll have to review that, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 10:56

Yes, we're gonna have to do practical magic. It may be a little different, but it's witches, so it counts.

SPEAKER_02 11:01

I think it counts. Totally.

SPEAKER_00 11:02

It fucking counts, and I fucking love these movies, and I'm just so excited for the second round. But also, can we talk about how fucking great Sandra Bolock looks?

SPEAKER_02 11:12

And Nicole. You know, uh yeah, I mean, did they shoot this in 2005? I don't like and they're just releasing it now, you know?

SPEAKER_00 11:19

No. I mean, I'm I can't wait. They all look great. I'm so fucking excited. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:25

All right, well, cool. So look forward to that. We'll talk about that. The other one that came out today, because we're recording this on Wednesday, yes, is this Clayface trailer. And you texted me, we gotta talk about this trailer because it's horror. It's being marketed as a body horror. DC's first horror movie, blah blah blah blah blah blah. Yep. So I guess we'll just talk about our reactions. The trailer I thought was cool, it's a cool trailer, sure. But I couldn't help but roll my eyes that this movie's even being made.

SPEAKER_00 11:54

So I I agree. When I watched the trailer, I kind of was like, This feels like Brett Easton Ellis.

SPEAKER_02 12:02

I was gonna say this is just the substance, this is the superhero substance happening.

SPEAKER_00 12:07

But here's why I the only reason I am excited and will see it, which has nothing to do with anything I saw. Like the trailer didn't make me go, ooh, I gotta watch this. But Mike Flanagan was one of the writers on it.

SPEAKER_02 12:19

Yeah. He wanted to direct it originally, I think. So but he's not doing that.

SPEAKER_00 12:24

So that's like the one poll for me where I'm like, does the man do anything that doesn't turn to gold?

SPEAKER_02 12:30

Look, I love a monster movie. Body horror is cool. My one of my favorite movies is The Thing. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 12:36

Still never seen it.

SPEAKER_02 12:38

We just live in this weird time where like the only movies we're getting are DC movies, and then those movies are becoming or sorry, superhero movies, and then those movies are becoming other genres.

SPEAKER_00 12:48

Because it's all they can't do.

SPEAKER_02 12:49

Like we can't just have that as a movie. Like this weird, like Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde fucking Phantom of the Opera shit. It has to be linked to a superhero somehow.

unknown 12:59

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 12:59

And then you go even one step beyond that, and it's like, this is this part of like the Batman, the new Batman series with like uh what's his name? Ron Pattinson? Or is this in James Gunn's universe?

SPEAKER_00 13:10

That's that's not a part of like I do you think Batman's gonna be in it? Are we is this gonna be like a Joker situation where it's just there is no connection to I hope that we do get Batman in it, and I hope we don't find out till the very end that it's Robert Pattinson's Batman and not be. You don't think there's gonna be Batman at all?

SPEAKER_02 13:30

No, I think it'll be Batman, but I think it'll be whatever this iteration of Batman that James Gunn is doing and not the Matt Reeves Batman.

SPEAKER_00 13:37

I was bummed because I had read a rumor that he was really trying to get Bradley Cooper for Batman, and I was like, that's I was you want that? I did when it was for the for the bold and the brave for like an older Batman.

SPEAKER_02 13:49

Oh, yeah, that'd be a different type of Batman. That'd be more.

SPEAKER_00 13:50

Yeah, I was like all about that. Um He's too old. But Bradley Cooper is now Superman's daddy, so guess that ain't happening.

SPEAKER_02 14:00

I think this really looked cool. I watched it twice just because like I'm first of all, I'm so burnt out in superhero movies. So everything I'm saying is like I'm not super excited with it, but I will say that shot of him like staring into like nothingness with the bandages on his face, and like like what is this movie? I mean it feels like it's Dr. It feels like it's the substance with a dude instead of do you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00 14:22

Like he's getting I was just trying to say I don't know enough about clayface, so I just like what I knew was just it was just like a big clay blob. So now seeing it as a person who like sometimes has a face and then he like pulls like the clay down his face, and then I read that like it's like a morphine character.

SPEAKER_02 14:40

Morphine, like morphine as in like he changes fate, not morphine as in a drug. Yeah, he's like he's like mystique in a way where he can like make himself look like any anybody.

SPEAKER_00 14:49

Yeah, so I I have no fucking idea what to expect from this, but things that I am hopeful about, I do trust James Gunn.

SPEAKER_02 14:58

Um but it's not James Gunn.

SPEAKER_00 15:01

But he's the one who signs off on everything, and he does not green light anything until he really believes the script is complete, which I love.

SPEAKER_02 15:10

But he's uh he's just so stretched thin, I'm like right now. Like I I don't think he I think he liked Mike Flanagan's pitch. And now he's like just make that. Like I don't I don't know what we're gonna do with this in the future. Yeah, I I don't know. And I'm bummed Mike Flanagan's not making it, like this this well I don't want to talk shit about anyone, but I don't I'm not familiar with this guy who's actually directing it really. Me neither. And when I looked at his filmography, it wasn't movies that I'd really seen or appreciated.

SPEAKER_00 15:40

It's interesting though, because the trailer definitely doesn't look like DC.

SPEAKER_02 15:44

Uh not really.

SPEAKER_00 15:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:46

It almost looks like Matt Reeves. Almost, I mean, obviously shot not even close to the uh amazing cinematography that he does in his movies, but it seemed like a poor man's version of that. It seemed like fan-made version of Matt Reeves.

SPEAKER_00 16:04

So this is gonna be your Netflix.

SPEAKER_02 16:06

I mean, it is, let's be real. That's what this is. Like, I this is a Morbius sort of situation here.

SPEAKER_00 16:12

I gotta tell you, Chloe, was like your black phone episodes are my two favorite episodes, and I was like, why? And she's like, Cause black cause Ben's not talking about how it looks like a Netflix movie, and he likes them and he's excited, and it's really fun to listen to you guys talk when you're both excited.

SPEAKER_02 16:29

Well, I I well that's funny, and I appreciate that. Well, that's first of all, that's not 100% true. I I glaze a lot of the scream movies, but um uh uh Yeah, I just yeah, film right now is in a weird spot visually, I think, and I just I'm not a fan.

SPEAKER_00 16:47

Fair.

SPEAKER_02 16:47

And when I go back and watch all movies, I'm like, oh yeah, I almost forgot what movies are supposed to be like, and this is like uh non-existent now.

SPEAKER_00 16:57

So that's why I love Sinners. That shot in the comedy field.

SPEAKER_02 17:02

If anything, Sinners feels like a old school movie, even whether it's good or bad. Do you know what I mean? Like whether you like it or not, it's it feels like a real movie. It doesn't feel like some fucking streaming bullshit.

SPEAKER_00 17:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:15

And yeah. Anyway. So yeah, so those movies come out. We'll probably have to we'll see. Like I I'm I'm assuming we'll watch Clayface and talk about it.

SPEAKER_00 17:24

Definitely.

SPEAKER_02 17:25

Especially if it's a horror movie. But I that also seems like a a a marketing push.

SPEAKER_00 17:29

We'll see what we get. I have hopes knowing Mike Flanagan was involved.

SPEAKER_02 17:33

Um but he's off shooting the Exorcist, so who knows if he'll be involved. With Scarlet. Or like if he wasn't. Yeah. I know. And Carrie, I guess. He's doing a Carrie series.

SPEAKER_00 17:42

Yeah, that's almost done.

SPEAKER_02 17:45

Yeah, maybe that'll be cool.

SPEAKER_00 17:46

We're gonna have to, I mean, we're gonna have to do a Mike Flanagan deep dive because I think that man is a goddamn You love him. I was not a big horror person until him. When he made Haunting of Hill House, yeah. It was so good. And and then my wife was super into horror, and I'd always loved Scream, but I wasn't like a horror girly.

SPEAKER_02 18:05

Is she into horror is like into horror?

SPEAKER_00 18:07

Oh yeah. Chloe's way bigger into horror than me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:11

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 18:11

Yeah, she's waiting for her opportunity to guess too much.

SPEAKER_02 18:13

Well, she doesn't like me bashing. Uh what was I bashing? Uh what was what what have we reviewed on this fucking channel? What what was I talking about, fam? Was it just Scream?

SPEAKER_00 18:26

You you said that the babysitter looked like a college student's project.

SPEAKER_02 18:30

It does! I'm sorry. The first one looks like that.

SPEAKER_00 18:34

I will argue. Well, anyway, she I get some of my best hot takes on this pod from her, so she's definitely gonna have to guest on it sometime.

SPEAKER_02 18:42

Oh, hell yeah. I thought you were just forcing her to watch all these horror movies. I didn't know she was a fan.

SPEAKER_00 18:46

No, this is what's so funny is I was the Christmas person, so I force her November and December to watch Christmas movies. That's not a genre. She would force me September and October to watch.

SPEAKER_02 18:58

Could you imagine hang on, hang on a second. I can't let that slide. Can you imagine like going on a date and being like, so what kind of movies are you? What genre of movie do you like? Christmas movies. Christmas movies.

SPEAKER_00 19:07

I do have a friend who's like that. All she watches is you like movies. I mean, I do love Christmas movies, but but it's just really funny because she's always been a way bigger horror fan than me. I've just always been a massive Scream fan. But now because of our marriage, I've watched so much horror.

SPEAKER_02 19:25

But not the thing.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

But not the thing.

SPEAKER_02 19:27

I don't think you'd like it, honestly.

SPEAKER_00 19:28

But well, which version? Because I love me some.

SPEAKER_02 19:36

No, no, no. Watch the John Carpenter one. Okay. Right. They're remaking it, I heard.

SPEAKER_00 19:42

Again?

SPEAKER_02 19:43

Well, the technically the last one was a prequel. Because like, well, I don't want to ruin it. You won't like it, but I mean it's just dudes. There's not a single girl in the movie. Oh yeah, I'll fucking hate it. Dudes? Fucking hate it. In Antarctica yelling at each other. That's it. It'll be your favorite movie.

SPEAKER_00 20:03

Just dudes in Antarctica yelling at each other.

SPEAKER_02 20:06

Yeah, but Kurt Russell's in it. He's dope as fuck. So I don't know if you like Kurt Russell.

SPEAKER_00 20:09

I do love Kurt Russell. He plays Santa Claus in the Christmas Chronicles. He does.

SPEAKER_02 20:15

This, I mean, the thing is like one of his top three roles of all time. So.

SPEAKER_00 20:19

Alright. Well, we'll have to cover it.

unknown 20:21

Right.

SPEAKER_00 20:21

But what are we what are we here to talk about?

SPEAKER_02 20:23

Yeah. So yeah, we're here to talk about Heretic. Um, a movie we've both seen before, but have watched again.

SPEAKER_00 20:30

To set up how we landed on Heretic, um, shout out to Nicole Loftus on Instagram. She was one of our earliest listeners. So, like three weeks into having episode posts, she'd start messaging and be like, please do heretic.

SPEAKER_02 20:45

What if we hate her? We're about to bash the shit out of it. I don't know. This is on you, Nicole.

SPEAKER_00 20:51

Nicole.

SPEAKER_02 20:52

I hope we like it. You asked for this. I don't want any hate mail for anything I say.

SPEAKER_00 20:58

Just because I mentioned in the last episode that we did, I had posted the poll. It was get out, I see you, and heretic. And I didn't know until we were actually recording at the very end that heretic did actually win. I posted the results, so it's not us changing it to do this movie.

SPEAKER_02 21:15

I was thinking about because we literally said that.

SPEAKER_00 21:16

Well, yeah, I thought I was like, Get out won't because that was like way in the lead. And then I didn't check it for like eight hours, and I was like, oh, actually, Heretic won. Yeah. So thankfully it won. But also, Nicole, shout out to you.

SPEAKER_02 21:30

Oh, thankfully it won. Well, I mean, I would have gladly to reviewed Get Out as well.

SPEAKER_00 21:35

But Nicole wanted me to make sure that Mr. Hugh Grant, her British love of her life, knows how much she loves him. So, Nicole, this one's for you.

SPEAKER_02 21:45

Nicole is not real, and this is Hugh Grant trying to get us to review his own movie.

SPEAKER_00 21:49

That'd be hilarious, I wish. Yeah, I wish too.

SPEAKER_02 21:53

That'd be hilarious. That would be amazing. Um, okay, so real quick, the rundown of Heretic came out in Written and directed by Scott Beck and Brian Woods, starring Sophia Thatcher, Chloe East, and of course Hugh Grant. Metacritic score 71.

SPEAKER_01 22:14

It's a good score.

SPEAKER_02 22:16

It is a good score. It's better than the black phone, which I think is actually absurd, but it's a good score. So anyway, so yeah, let's talk about initial.

SPEAKER_00 22:30

Were you familiar with Scott Beck?

SPEAKER_02 22:32

No, but I think I looked him up. Well, Scott Beck, and I don't want to leave out Brian Woods. I don't want to, I don't want to do that to Brian Woods. Shout out to Brian Woods. Oh, that's right.

SPEAKER_00 22:41

I do know that they were a writing team because they watched an interview with Hugh Grant where he said, I wrote down his quote.

SPEAKER_01 22:49

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 22:51

He said he was bored with playing obvious roles. And they saw this interview, and then they started writing it with him in mind, and then literally were like, by the time it was done, they were like, it can't be anybody but him.

SPEAKER_02 23:04

It's because of Cloud Atlas. That's where this all came from.

SPEAKER_00 23:08

I never saw it.

SPEAKER_02 23:09

I love Cloud Atlas. That is one of my favorite movies.

SPEAKER_00 23:11

Really?

SPEAKER_02 23:12

Yes. Be nice to me, internet. That is one of my favorite fucking movies. It's so good. I could watch that movie every day.

SPEAKER_00 23:20

I mean, post that clip and just see what the comments are.

SPEAKER_02 23:24

I bet you a lot of people are gonna be like, yeah, it is. If you watch it, it's one of the best movies I've ever seen. It's so good. It is probably the most underrated movie of all time, Cloud Atlas. That's a masterpiece.

SPEAKER_00 23:35

I do know that Woods was involved because my other note is that Beck and Woods spent 10 years developing this film.

SPEAKER_02 23:41

Way to just cut me off in the middle of me glazing Cloud Atlas.

SPEAKER_00 23:44

Sorry.

SPEAKER_02 23:46

Yeah, I read that it took him 10 years to develop this as well.

SPEAKER_00 23:49

Which made me feel really good as somebody who's had a lot of creative projects that have drug out forever. I was like, maybe there's yeah, maybe there's still time. Although now I don't know because we're doing this podcast.

SPEAKER_02 24:01

You know, Aang Lee didn't direct his first movie until he was like 40 something.

SPEAKER_00 24:05

Well, there you have it.

SPEAKER_02 24:06

Like he had a whole different career. And one day he was like, I'm gonna direct movies.

SPEAKER_00 24:09

I see it now, Ben. Five years from now, slasher bash events are gonna be so big that they're gonna be like, you two should write a horror movie, and we'll be like, done.

SPEAKER_02 24:19

I already did. Here's all my scripts.

SPEAKER_00 24:22

Here are eight scripts to choose from.

SPEAKER_02 24:25

We're gonna do them all. You get to pick the order. Perfect. Um so yeah. Great, great uh little backstory there. I like it.

SPEAKER_00 24:35

Um I do think it's funny that the last two movies we did both kind of have like a Dante's Inferno reference.

SPEAKER_02 24:42

A what?

SPEAKER_00 24:43

Dante's Inferno. They do the different levels of hell.

SPEAKER_02 24:46

So like in Black Phone, the Oh, I thought you meant we mentioned that somehow. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 24:51

I think it's funny by coincidence that this and Black Phone 2 both kind of riff off of Dante's Inferno a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 24:58

Yeah. Yeah. Well, it means he's got that picture in this movie.

SPEAKER_00 25:02

Yeah, Paradiso or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 25:04

But that's it. Yeah. I guess I mean like, like the maze with the division. Yeah, or three levels. You're right.

SPEAKER_00 25:10

Yeah. Um, and they come out in the snow in the end.

SPEAKER_02 25:15

Yeah, and we'll talk about that too. Yeah. But um, let's I want to hear what you think overall. Like, what's your opinion on this movie? You've seen it before, you've seen it again. Um, first of all, did you like it? Do you like it more now that you watch a second time more or less? And what do you do like overall?

SPEAKER_00 25:30

Really enjoyed it both times. Um, you know, obviously watching it this time. I'm looking for things that I missed just watching it. So there were a couple little like plot holes that I was like, well, that's some loose writing there. Nice that worked out. Yeah. Um I still liked it. The ending, we'll get to this, but I interpreted the ending completely different watching it this time.

SPEAKER_02 25:52

Than the first time you watched it. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 25:55

But this one's always an an interesting one for me to watch because I was raised Mormon.

SPEAKER_02 26:00

Right. Oh, yeah. Yep. This is okay.

SPEAKER_00 26:03

I also was reading that the two actresses cast were also raised Mormon. Um also non-practicing. I am also non-practicing.

unknown 26:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:12

Uh not excommunicated, but if they knew I was gay, they would.

SPEAKER_02 26:18

You used to have a podcast about being gay.

SPEAKER_00 26:20

That's true. They were like, oh, this one's gay. Scratch her off.

SPEAKER_02 26:24

Get her out of here.

SPEAKER_00 26:25

But um it was interesting because the first time I watched it, uh, I also was reading Under the Banner of Heaven and having really strong uh angry thoughts about how I was raised. And so watching this movie, I was like, God, this man is so smart. Like, I wanted to like if I had walked into his house and had sat down in his lecture, I would have been like, hey man, do you have whiskey? Like, let's go. Let's rip all night. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:55

Why are you trying to kill me? I just want to say here, I agree.

SPEAKER_00 26:57

Yeah, I think you're the smartest man I've ever met. Teach me what I need to know, sir.

SPEAKER_02 27:02

Um, cool. Cool. So you're a fan of this movie overall.

SPEAKER_00 27:05

I am. I think it's a really good movie. I think it's a really smart movie. I I my mom was like, What movie are you doing next? And I was like, Heretic. You'd hate it. Yeah. I was like, You'd hate it, but you're not going to be able to do it. Does she like any of the movies we talk about? Uh she's gone to a couple screen movies with me.

SPEAKER_02 27:21

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 27:22

But I don't she doesn't like them, but she my mom sees everything. She goes to movies.

SPEAKER_02 27:26

Yeah, but as far as horror movies go, like, that's not really violent. I mean, there's a couple instances of violence, but really, it's mostly them just talking the whole time.

SPEAKER_00 27:34

Yeah. Um, which actually, when we were watching it, I was like, this makes me want to review uh Zodiac, because I want to talk about it. That's one of my favorites. Horror film that's a talkie.

SPEAKER_02 27:48

Let's just reference all my favorite movies in this episode. All right, let's do it. Zodiac, Cloud Atlas. I like this movie a lot too. I think that this is like a B movie that is shot and presented like an A movie.

SPEAKER_00 28:00

Like, I find it interesting that you call it a B movie.

SPEAKER_02 28:02

Well, I think it's fun and really entertaining if you turn your brain off a little bit. Because I I think it's a little like it feels like they're trying to be meaningful with like this sort of character who's like, what is religion? It's like these iterations of I'm like, okay, this is like the most base level of understanding. Do you know what I mean? Like, this isn't really as deep as as it's being presented here in this moment. Fair.

SPEAKER_00 28:27

But for for me going in as a no longer Mormon, though, I was like, Well, I wish I could make the points this man could make. Like, I had a much more personal attachment to watching it and being like, yeah, exactly. Thanksgiving's gonna get fucking weird with my family.

SPEAKER_02 28:41

We're just gonna put this on and I'm gonna pause it every five minutes and we're gonna talk about it.

SPEAKER_00 28:45

What do you think about that?

SPEAKER_02 28:46

Exactly. Um, no, I like this movie a lot, but I I do like, especially like now watching it with like the critical like lens, there are things about it where I'm like, this isn't as deep as we're trying to present this. But it doesn't mean I don't like the movie.

SPEAKER_00 28:59

In calling it a B movie, I think one of the things that you and I have kind of got hung up on on more low budget films is like um, and not even like even with Scream 7, like when you're not changing environments and you're reusing sets and whatnot.

SPEAKER_02 29:13

And but that doesn't bother me. Like, I don't think I don't think it looks low budget. I think if anything, it looks like a higher buzzer than Black Phone Head.

SPEAKER_00 29:19

But that's what I'm saying, though, is like for for a movie that is set in a contained environment, they change the set multiple times, which I really appreciated.

SPEAKER_02 29:29

I like that too. I'm not I I don't I don't like like I don't dislike this movie. I just I'm being honest about what I think it is. It's an A24, it's a move, it's a B movie with an A24 like skin over it, you know what I mean? Like gloss on top where it's like, okay, A24.

SPEAKER_00 29:45

It's like that little clayface pulled out. Dude, that was creepy.

SPEAKER_02 29:50

Um so yeah, I think this is a fun movie. And I think most people that watch this that are horror fans like really enjoy this movie, and I think that's justified. Um, but let's talk about it.

SPEAKER_00 30:00

Okay, so I love that it started out with um this conversation about sex.

SPEAKER_02 30:07

The sex thing. And the girls with the condom ad on the back of the bench.

SPEAKER_00 30:11

Yeah, and her innocence in it, I thought really nailed this character. Like I literally wrote down, oh, this reminds me of EFY, which is um it's a it's a Mormon youth summer camp called Especially for Youth. Yes, and I I I only went one time and I hated it and made my aunt come pick me up so I could leave early. But I remember like one of the nights, like all the girls in our dorm were talking, and this girl was like, I heard that people do this thing called heading.

SPEAKER_02 30:43

Heading?

SPEAKER_00 30:44

Heading, and she's like, I don't know what that is. And I was like, Do you mean giving head? And she's like, What is that? And then I described it, and she was like physically ill.

SPEAKER_02 30:56

Wow. I uh I don't know what to say to that story.

SPEAKER_00 31:02

It just really it it for me it set this character. It was so many naive Mormon girls that I grew up with, but also like she doesn't necessarily sound naive, she sounds innocent.

SPEAKER_02 31:13

And I think I've also met not I haven't met a lot of Mormons in my life, but I've met a lot of like Christians, especially going to college in Ohio, and like know a lot of people that behave and are just like this these two characters really, but the uh I forgot her name and the sister um Paxley's Chloe. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:31

Sister Paxley's the naive one.

SPEAKER_02 31:33

Yes. I thought she her her it's like a real person I've met before in my life, is this sort of like I'm not afraid to discuss sex, but I'm innocent about I know. The way that I discuss it is innocent, and but she's polite to a fault.

SPEAKER_00 31:49

Is it also cheap though to use sex as it's the easiest way to describe innocence?

SPEAKER_02 31:54

No, because I think that this is a real conversation like that that people like that are religious and maybe sheltered growing up, it's like the thing they're most careful about. I don't want to say sheltered about, but they have to be completely made about and they're with the you know the other sh sheltered guarded people and they're just talking. Yeah, I thought I thought they were two really realistic characters, and that I think that's one of the strengths of the movie. And like you said earlier, them being ex-Mormons, I think that obviously they're pulling from that community and what they grew up like.

SPEAKER_00 32:22

I think the second that the casting director found out that they'd been raised Mormon, it was like done, because nobody's gonna be able to pull it from that experience and know how to play it.

SPEAKER_02 32:34

Yeah, but I don't even like and not to be like taking this away from Mormons if they want to be associated with this movie or not, but I think any Lauric religious, deeply religious person, I think in any religion, uh, it's similar, right? In this way. So I think as someone who grew up not around Mormons but around Christians, like I felt that um that it was familiar in a way. Yeah. So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:56

Um I felt immediately so sad for her when they asked her about her magic underpants and then they pants her on the street.

SPEAKER_02 33:04

I know. Dude, people suck.

SPEAKER_00 33:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:09

But I do like how they use that multiple times throughout the movie. Because even the magic underwear. Well, I love like that's the cow word for stabbing him, and then at the very end, he says it to her and he and she stabs him immediately.

SPEAKER_00 33:20

I didn't know that people called it magic underwear until Chloe asked me about it.

SPEAKER_02 33:24

I honestly don't even know what that I thought that was like a joke. What is that?

SPEAKER_00 33:28

So Mormons get what is called garments. So it it is actually your underwear. So it's essentially like boxers that go to the knees and then like a Hanes t-shirt. But like for women, it's like really silky and soft or whatever. Um, but your garments are never supposed to show. So that's how you dress modestly, is you always cover your garments, and your garments are the only thing that like touches your sacred parts.

SPEAKER_02 33:56

So wait, wait, wait. So are the three layers we're talking about? There's the regular underwear.

SPEAKER_01 34:00

There's no garments.

SPEAKER_00 34:01

So like you'll have your like, so like my my father would wear just the garments. It was like boxers and a Hanes t-shirt, basically.

SPEAKER_02 34:11

Um That's just my underwear.

SPEAKER_00 34:14

I don't know what my mom would do because she wasn't wearing like my stepmom would wear her garments and then she would wear a pair of underwear and a bra over them.

SPEAKER_02 34:22

Okay, so you could oh over the garments. Over them. Your garments. Why not reverse it?

SPEAKER_00 34:26

Because your garments are your sacred, like protect your they're the only thing sacred and blessed to touch your skin. But this is the thing too, is people think that all Mormons get garments. You only get your garments when you go to the temple and you take out your endowments. You you have so you have to take out your endowments, which means essentially you're either getting them if you're going on a mission or if you're being married in the temple.

SPEAKER_02 34:50

So you always wear them, you don't just wear them when you're out on the mission.

SPEAKER_00 34:53

Yeah, no, you wear them always once you get them. But like, you know, like I didn't leave the church until I was 17.

SPEAKER_02 34:59

Did you get put did you get sent on mission? Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 35:03

My family wanted me to go on a mission, and my grandpa had like saved up a bunch of money for it. And then when I was, he was like, Well, you only get this money if you go on a mission. And I was like, Well, I'm not going on a mission. He was like, Well, then you're not getting this money, and I was like, Cool, thanks. Shout out, grandpa.

SPEAKER_02 35:20

Well, you know, he's got principles.

SPEAKER_00 35:23

Yeah, he's he's a strong Mormon man.

SPEAKER_02 35:25

Where do we go from here?

SPEAKER_00 35:27

Okay, so let's start. So he he coaxes them in, pretending that his wife is there. And immediately when it gets the conversation turns serious, is when he's like, I've got an awkward question for you. Are you okay with that? And we're like, Well, we we don't know unless you ask us, so ask us. And he immediately asks, how they feel about polygamy.

SPEAKER_02 35:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:49

And then I love Sister Paxton's reaction when she's like, Well, it's definitely a sketch for sure. And yes, she plays that character so well who's like, like, I was watching it and I immediately was like, I hadn't really thought about this before. I was like, you know, like the the Mormon religion is the fastest growing religion in the world, but it's because they do missionary work and like are door-to-door salesmen. And I hadn't thought about how they're laying that responsibility on 18-year-olds who really don't have any fucking idea what they're talking about. And I thought that that showed so well in this scene. And I laughed so hard and I felt so uncomfortable for her. Yeah. And like Chloe at one point turns to me and goes, you know, the one thing that's that's really great about this movie, like it's maybe not the scariest movie, but the second they walk inside, you feel uncomfortable and that feeling never goes away.

SPEAKER_02 36:45

Totally, 100%.

SPEAKER_00 36:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:47

And and to jump off of what you're saying about her reaction in that moment where she's like, Oh, it is sus. Like, that's such and I think a lot of this movie is like very uh what it's good at is like sort of um the idea of like what you're raised to be like and your beliefs, just like how it projects outwardly on your decision makings and how you communicate with people. So her for her to like try to like change the subject and and sort of like, but like also like not want to talk about it, like it was such a realistic moment. And I think that whole conversation, they behave just like polite, upstanding young people would behave in that where they're trying to be like they're in someone's home and they're trying to be a good guest, and like, oh yes, that's not for me or whatever, but like you feel uncomfortable for so many reasons.

SPEAKER_00 37:31

You feel uncomfortable because you know it's a scary movie and something bad is gonna happen to them, but also you feel uncomfortable because you know before they know, and they're so naive, and you feel that, and you feel them becoming aware to their naivety and taking way longer than the audience has to realize what a bad situation they've walked into.

SPEAKER_02 37:51

I like how you framed it that way because, like, honestly, one of my biggest issues with the movie is like you you know that they're in a dangerous place already. There's no like you as an audience aren't like having this conversation or hearing this conversation, and then like then you feel like a moment of like unease, like when you watch Parasite and that and that no spoilers parasite, but that change happens halfway through, and you feel this like sinking like feeling in your gut, like what the fuck is happening right now. We don't get that because the minute he opens the door, we know like he based on the trailers alone, like in the premise of this movie, like he's a threat to them and he's going to do stuff with them.

SPEAKER_00 38:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:24

But to frame it like you're saying, where it's like it's not about that, it's about watching their slow descent into unease. That totally changes it a little bit for me too, where it's like, you're right, because you get to actually watch them catch up to where they're just at. Yes, and with some of the themes about like belief and believing and your beliefs like making the decisions for you, sort of you can you can see that their struggling comes from their their character, uh, or these characters like the their core, this core of their characters. I also wrote like I love the shot where he goes to like ask his wife, whatever, and they're just like standing in the room like awkwardly without their coach. Which the weirdest thing about lingers on that shot, and you're just like yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:07

That fucking hallway to the kitchen, like what house is set up like that?

SPEAKER_02 39:11

Well, I mean, you know, there's all kinds of houses. He said he built it.

SPEAKER_00 39:17

I mean, I if he was like, Let me let me go get her and then open the door to this long, treacherous hallway, I'd be like, let me get the fuck out.

SPEAKER_02 39:24

Yeah, but again, you're not thinking like they are, they're being polite. Like, that's what I'm saying. Like, it's so realistic because like it is weird. Everything about this is weird, but they're trying to be like good, good Mormons, good people, nice polite people, and they don't want to make anyone else uncomfortable. They don't want to make him uncomfortable, even though he's a threat to them. You know?

SPEAKER_00 39:41

But I do love I I love the way they play off of each other, where the one is so fucking naive and the other one is not, and is trying to essentially like I would say reclaim her faith.

SPEAKER_02 39:52

Yeah. I also think they admit they established, right, that um she hasn't made a sale yet, or whatever they call it.

SPEAKER_00 39:59

Hasn't made a sale yet?

SPEAKER_02 40:00

Well, I don't know what you call it, she hasn't converted anyone yet, or whatever. So, but the other girl has. What's the other girl's name? I don't remember.

SPEAKER_00 40:07

I can't remember the other one.

SPEAKER_02 40:08

Sophia That Sophia Sophie, Sophia Thatcher, um,'s character. And so like you have this thing where like the naive girl, we're gonna call her naive, even though I think that that's the wrong word for it. Like, I think she's just like innocent, right? She's like so wanting to make a sale, so she's she's more agreeable, she's more happy, she's more more polite, right? And and Sophia is more just like not buying it.

SPEAKER_00 40:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:34

And I think that's realistic too, because we've established that with those two characters.

SPEAKER_00 40:38

And I like I like that the way that you can I I watched an interview with her afterwards where she talked about how hard those talking scenes were to film because she was like, I don't get to do anything really in those scenes except for like just be reacting in my face for a long time without saying anything. And it it shows those like she does a really good job of showing like the disbelief, essentially. Like you can see in her face that she's not buying it the way that Sister Paxon just assumes he's a nice guy who wants to know about Jesus.

SPEAKER_02 41:14

Yeah. Well, you know, she's got contraception in her in her arm, so no, no, she's uh what does he say she is at the end? NPC.

SPEAKER_00 41:23

Yeah. But I did love in that opening in his living room before it moves to the rest of the house, uh, whatever quote it was, and she was like Spider-Man, and he's like, Voltaire.

SPEAKER_02 41:34

I mean, I thought it was Spider-Man.

SPEAKER_00 41:36

I was cracking Stan Lee.

SPEAKER_02 41:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:39

But this movie does a good job of having funny moments for a movie that's not written to like actually be funny. Like good.

SPEAKER_02 41:46

Well, it's so deli it's delivered so well.

SPEAKER_00 41:48

Yeah, just little tension-breaking laughs.

SPEAKER_02 41:51

Yeah. Um what about Hugh Grant? Let's talk about Hugh Grant. What do you he's brilliant? I think this is one of his best roles.

SPEAKER_00 41:59

I think he's amazing in it.

SPEAKER_02 42:00

Yeah. Like he's creepy the whole time.

SPEAKER_00 42:03

Yeah. Totally. But like, I mean, like, one thing, like, I watched it with Chloe both times, and one thing we like the first time we literally were like, oh my god, let's bust out the whiskey. This lecture's great. And then this time, Chloe was like, Do you think you could sit and just talk about it?

SPEAKER_02 42:23

Are you talking about the are you talking about the monopoly thing?

SPEAKER_00 42:25

Yes, like that whole lecture he's giving in his little like church he's built or whatever. I mean, literally everything he says, like all of it, we were like, Yeah, I want to drink whiskey and just and riff with his guy all night long.

SPEAKER_02 42:36

Yes, I don't it's not deep to me though. I mean, he's not saying anything. He's coming to a conclusion of like all religions are the same because they're all.

SPEAKER_00 42:42

But uh but that's the thing, is like if you have a you know, a couple beers, a couple glasses with him, yeah. Then I mean, what are debates when people are drunk? It's just like going over things that aren't that deep that feel really deep in the moment, and you're not really hitting significant points, but you can talk about it for hours. Like, I remember like drunk conversations with a friend's husband being like, string theory, let's talk about it. And like the next morning, like we were so hungover, and my friend was like, Hey, you fucking idiots. Do you feel like mad scientists? Like just giving us so much shit. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:14

But do you think what he's saying that to them? What do you think like I was having this whole debate with myself because maybe I'm going too far with this. I was thinking too deeply with what his intentions were. Do you think he's actually trying to like convince them of something? Yes. Or you think he's because I don't think he's doing that. What I think what he's doing is he's trying to uh experiment on how far people will go based on faith.

SPEAKER_00 43:43

So and I th that was my interpretation the first time. I didn't think it's deep. This time, when he's putting so much emphasis on which door do you choose? Do you go through belief or disbelief? And there's so much conversation surrounding it, and the point is that they both go to the same place. I do think. That's the point is that everybody puts puts so much belief into something, and we believe all these different fucking things in ways that separate us, kill us, what you know, like whatever. Like it's like ridiculous how much we differentiate ourselves, and then it all goes to the same fucking place. So it doesn't matter. Well, that's what I'm saying. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:21

What I'm saying, like, he knows that those doors lead to the same place. And he knows he just arbitrarily wrote belief on one and disbelief on the other one. Yet their um upbringing, being told to do the right thing, being told that God is with you, being told to follow your faith no matter what, that even something as arbitrary as I just wrote this on this wall, they're gonna go, I'm gonna go with the belief one because like there's meaning behind that, even though there isn't. Even though, you know what I'm saying? I think he's trying to show them that like you can choose either door, you're going to the same place though. It doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_00 44:58

He doesn't tell them that. Yeah, in a way, he does. Because it the moment that it turns really creepy is when he finally kind of turns the tables and he's like, Okay, given everything you know right now, do you still believe my wife is in the other room?

SPEAKER_02 45:11

Right.

SPEAKER_00 45:12

So he's telling them, I'm a fucking liar. This is fucking bullshit. What I've just laid out in front of you is fucking bullshit.

SPEAKER_02 45:20

So why knowing that he has said because they still choose their she goes to the belief door because she goes, I believe and I'm gonna go to the but it's like he she's ignoring everything that he just said, basically, in that moment.

SPEAKER_00 45:34

And for me, right in that moment, it's like, you know, you're fucked. Keep talking about it. I don't know. She doesn't. Why would you leave that room? I would never leave that room. I know that what's coming next is just bullshit.

SPEAKER_02 45:46

But that's what I'm saying. And that's his point. He's saying he's trying his hardest to get them to make a decision not based on their beliefs. Because, and yet they still do. He's literally telling them that I'm lying. Because it he tells them that he did his wife, let's think about his wife. Do you really think she's in the next room? And then they she goes something like, This is really a beautiful house. Did you build it? And he goes, My wife did. Like, he's still, even after he admitted that he doesn't have one, he's still lying about it. He's lying so much to their face, yet no matter what he does, she still is making those decisions based on her faith, which is, I think, what he doesn't, what he's trying to break, right? Like, I think that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_00 46:22

Which is interesting though, because it's like the like skeptic who's the one that's like, right, well, we're gonna do this. And and in my mind, that character would actually be neither of these doors have anything good in store for us. We're not leaving this fucking room, take us out the front, and trying to fight in that room.

SPEAKER_02 46:40

Yeah. But again, they're they're so polite, and it's based on their upbringing, right? Like they're it's like conditioning. Like I feel like at all times, until maybe they got to the basement, they were resisting confrontation. They didn't want to make this person feel, they didn't want to be rude to this person, right? Like, no matter what he was doing, they were still like being polite in their phrasing. Can you just please let us go make a phone call?

SPEAKER_00 47:07

Like, which pause right here. This is a lesson for anybody listening. If somebody is making you uncomfortable, do not worry about their discomfort.

SPEAKER_02 47:16

Get the that's the point of the movie, is like because they've been conditioned their whole lives to at behave this way, in the same way religion is, they're incapable of doing that. Yeah, even when they know they should be doing that. Yeah, and I think that's what Hugh Grant's point is.

SPEAKER_00 47:28

And in this at you know, points of this movie is like your conditioning is gonna take you further into the mess.

SPEAKER_02 47:35

Even when I'm admitting you. Yeah, I'm even admitting to you that I like I'm lying constantly, and yet no matter what, you are still making decisions based on arbitrary beliefs or the way that you were raised.

SPEAKER_00 47:47

So, what do you think his goal is then? Like, what do you think if somebody had been like I'm not choosing a door, this is bullshit, he would have let him out?

SPEAKER_02 47:55

I don't I I don't know. That's a good maybe I don't know. I I I it's interesting. I think in that with these two girls with this moment, they chose that door. I think if he had done this multiple times, I bet you sometimes they chose the disbelief door. It doesn't really matter. I think he's watching them because he wants to see how far belief can make him control their actions. Because, like you said at the end of the day, he's saying one leads out and maybe the other one doesn't. But they really just go the same place. So he's still got control, even if it's a lie, like it's all about just like lying and control and manipulation. And even when you're they know you're lying, you can still have that control over someone based on the way that they're raised, the way that they're brought up, their personalities, what's what's whatever.

SPEAKER_00 48:45

What's funny that I'm just remembering too is that like when they first get to the door and they're ringing it. Yeah, I didn't catch this the first time, but I caught it this time because I'd seen it.

SPEAKER_02 48:55

Is this the cell phone?

SPEAKER_00 48:56

I have no idea what before the there's metal in the walls and ceiling. You can hear him unlocking a shit ton of locks to open the door.

SPEAKER_02 49:04

I didn't notice that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:06

And it's if I had heard that, I'd been like, Yeah, I'm not going into this house.

SPEAKER_02 49:10

Well, also never go into a house where the windows are so small you can't you can't fit in them.

SPEAKER_00 49:14

It's some really good.

SPEAKER_02 49:16

Every single window was like a little tiny hole in the ceiling or in the wall or like a slit.

SPEAKER_00 49:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:22

It's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 49:23

Yeah, it's creepy as fuck.

SPEAKER_02 49:25

Um anyway, sorry, I'm ranting. Like I I'm maybe I'm being too cerebral with it, but I think especially when we get to the end of it, like, what is this game he's playing? And I think it is about just like he how much he can just get them to keep going down and down and down and down and down.

SPEAKER_00 49:44

So we get to the next level and he's showing them a miracle.

SPEAKER_02 49:49

She goes, Are you gonna come with us? And he just closes the door.

SPEAKER_00 49:54

That shot of him standing up at the door when they're like going down the stairs and he's just standing at the top watching and then closing it.

SPEAKER_02 50:00

Dude, I love it because you're like, as an audience member, you're like, What are you doing? Yeah, you're being so polite, like you you're acting that you think there's really an exit down there.

SPEAKER_00 50:09

It's because he keeps saying to write this about Mormons because they are the most polite people in the world.

SPEAKER_02 50:14

It's not even about Mormons, it's about all religion. But I think a lot of people are like that. I think some level in that scene, they believe that there's an exit. They believe that one of those doors doors led to an exit.

SPEAKER_00 50:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:27

And then once they get there, they don't even really acknowledge that it didn't. And in fact, I don't even know they realize that it's the two doors went to the same room. Yeah. Anyway. Second level, they get down there, this woman comes out of the fucking walls.

SPEAKER_00 50:44

Oh, oh, when the other not Paxton, uh, when the other one's like talking back to him about like, well, actually, and like giving shit back to him. That is like so telling of like her her character as somebody who definitely had a moment outside of the church, um, like and is and is trying to kind of find faith again as a a means to you feel that though?

SPEAKER_02 51:16

I think because to me it was sort of like when she was saying that stuff, like she was being naive in that moment as well. She was saying, like, all of these things about like, oh, you didn't think about Jewish people, you didn't think about the Holocaust, blah blah blah blah blah, like all this stuff, but it's almost like supporting his whole hypothesis about religion just being made up in iterations of each other. Like she's so quick to to show out the differences and and their versions of religion elsewhere, but not see how her own religion is just as similar as those. Do you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00 51:51

Like, but I I guess I didn't take it as like she doesn't see the similarities. I took that as this is actually a girl who um had a moment where she actually learned to start questioning things, which I think in a lot of religions you're taught don't question.

SPEAKER_02 52:10

Just believe you feel like do you feel like that her saying that is sort of like her trying to convince herself that she still believes?

SPEAKER_00 52:19

Uh I didn't think her saying that was. I think it was evidence of she'd been through some past trauma that made her feel like maybe she wanted like the the protection. She's questioning like the shield of faith again, where like the ignorance is bliss life. I I'd rather go back to that.

SPEAKER_02 52:38

Which I think is very telling too about religion where where you want to believe it.

SPEAKER_00 52:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:44

You want to be, even if you doubt it, like I think you're right. I think she's a character that had doubts or is having doubts. And all of those facts to her are is evidence that she's trying to to me, like she's trying to convince herself that she believes still. But deep down she knows she doesn't. Yeah. Right? Because it's because it is um uh what's the word? It is comforting.

SPEAKER_00 53:08

Mm-hmm. I mean, I have I have a very close family member who recently left the Mormon church and we had like like I was shocked when I found out because I considered her the best Mormon in the family. Um, and like her husband was like a missionary and did all this, and so they, you know, left together. Um and we we had a good talk about it one night, and she's like, it is much harder to choose not to be religious because when I was practicing the faith, I didn't have to question things. People told me what to believe, and so I didn't have to think about it, I didn't have to worry about it. And now you grant right now. And now that I'm not doing that, yeah, it's really scary because now I don't know. I don't know what to tell my kids, I don't know what the truth is, I don't know what comes out of the way.

SPEAKER_02 53:56

Right. Like there's yeah, well, I don't want to talk about religion.

SPEAKER_00 53:58

Yeah, but I but I think it's freeing, but I think it's also scary, and I think that's why sometimes people want to go back into it because it's like it is comforting.

SPEAKER_02 54:07

Yeah, totally. And I think, but I think that's Hugh Grant's point. It's like all of these religions have the same idea, right?

unknown 54:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:15

Because people don't want to have to worry, they don't want to have to think, they don't want to have to make decisions every day, they want to be told the types of decisions they should make and then just follow the rules, which is why Paxton, Paxson is constantly polite to him because like she was raised to behave that way, and she knows that if she's a good person, or she thinks she believes if she's a good person, even till her death, she'll find salvation in heaven. So she's not gonna break that ever. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, which I think is why it's so hard for her to to stab him until the end of the movie when she sees all of the imprisoned people surrounding her in those cages.

SPEAKER_00 54:50

And and it's what makes it so interesting that she's the surviving. Well, we'll we'll discuss if she's actually exactly, but it makes it interesting that she outlasts the other one who you're like, oh, she's the one who's gonna get through and naivete is gonna, she's toast.

SPEAKER_02 55:10

I don't know. I mean, I think if you're if you're Hugh Grant, you're thinking the easier person to control is the naive one.

SPEAKER_00 55:15

Fair.

SPEAKER_02 55:16

It's all about if it's all about control with him, then of course he's gonna kill the other girl first.

SPEAKER_00 55:21

Okay. So they go in the same room. He has the chick, the the prophet, he's calling her eat the poison pie, and then goes upstairs because Topher Grace comes to the door. Dude, what the fuck?

SPEAKER_02 55:35

I didn't even know it was him until he rang the doorbell. I was like, wait a second.

SPEAKER_00 55:38

Yeah, that was.

SPEAKER_02 55:39

I was like, Venom.

SPEAKER_00 55:40

His casting was more of an abrupt like removal from his.

SPEAKER_02 55:44

Well, you think he's gonna come back at some point, right?

SPEAKER_00 55:46

Because it's but he does remember, and then he's like, I would be remiss if I didn't ask you, do you have one of these pamphlets?

SPEAKER_02 55:51

I mean, like at the end of the movie or something, he'll be there.

SPEAKER_00 55:54

Yeah, that was so random.

SPEAKER_02 55:56

Yeah, I agree. But so this is where Is he Mormon? He must be.

SPEAKER_00 55:59

No.

SPEAKER_02 56:00

Oh, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 56:00

Why wasn't he in this fucking movie? I don't know. Um, but so this is where the plot hole comes for me, is so he quickly has to leave and go to the door, and they come up the other side of the stairs and they're pulling the rug and and trying to get the matches, and it's during this time that the body of the prophet is swapped.

SPEAKER_01 56:22

Right.

SPEAKER_00 56:22

So, my question, and maybe it's not a plot hole, but this is my question.

SPEAKER_01 56:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 56:27

Had there not been this disruption that forced him to leave, that gave them the chance to run up the stairs.

SPEAKER_02 56:33

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:34

How how was he gonna swap the body with them down there? Like, what was he gonna do to get him out of that room to switch bodies?

SPEAKER_02 56:41

Maybe he he had a plan we just didn't see it. I guess the doorbell rang. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:45

I mean, it's possible. Like, what is he gonna let him back in his room? I don't even think that's what it is.

SPEAKER_02 56:48

I thought the question you were asked is like, why didn't he just get one of his like slate? I don't want to say slate, but one of his prison prison women prison people to just pretend to be dead.

SPEAKER_00 56:59

Yeah, I I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 57:01

I guess he had him check for their pulse. But I think that was that's what I thought was gonna happen because like they again see this is okay, you're making me think about this movie too much.

SPEAKER_00 57:09

And sorry, please shut me up if I'm being crazy. No, but you're good.

SPEAKER_02 57:13

But when he says check her pulse, check her pulse, they don't actually do it. That's eventually they're just so scared.

SPEAKER_00 57:18

But not really.

SPEAKER_02 57:22

Yeah, but they but I took it as like they just eventually just believe him that she's dead in this whole point, right? Of like belief. And like he they're so scared, and he just keeps saying, Trust me, she's dead. Check his pole. Did you check her pole? I want to make sure you know what she said. See, she's dead. And they're like, Yeah, she's dead. Like, I they never actually confirm that she's dead in that scene.

SPEAKER_00 57:39

Or confirm that they believe it, because they get like that death rattle too, or that like death croak croaker.

SPEAKER_02 57:44

But like, that's too like Hugh Grant's point where like he is controlling them based on them just blindly believing what he's saying, even though he's lying constantly. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 57:53

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 57:54

But I agree, like, I think there are some whole also like how did you get the body down the stairs and then over in the corner, and then you came up the stairs that also they look very weak. I don't know how that's possible. I like the whole thing doesn't really make sense. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:07

So then he comes back down and he's getting to that debate with her, and then that's when she's ready for for the chick to do the magic underwear stabbing. And this the first time I saw it when he just stabs her in the throat with the uh box cutter. Yeah, with the box cutter. That was shocking the first time I saw it. Oh, yeah. It was like, whoa, fuck.

SPEAKER_02 58:29

I was like, what just happened? Uh the girl, the other girl slit her throat? Like, what's going on here?

SPEAKER_00 58:34

Yeah, I was very that was very unexpected. I was very, very surprised by that. But then what I caught watching it this time around is then as she's like, you know, like lying there dying or whatever, and Sister Paxon's freaking out. He's he's saying, She'll come back to us, I promise. And that was such a weird thing to say because she kind of does later.

SPEAKER_02 58:55

Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_00 58:56

So I was like, what was his intent with saying that?

SPEAKER_02 59:00

I and this is why I sort of wish that we never found the answer to the the uh the prophet dying. Like, I think that kept on being like she just woke up and they're like, Well, we never really checked her, so maybe she was never dead, you know, in that kind of situation. Because then when she wakes up at the end, I think that would have hit a bit harder of like, oh, but we can talk about that scene too, because she's also praying in that moment, and I think that's the filmmakers doing this thing where like maybe it was her prayers that got her to get up for like those two seconds to save her, right? Or maybe she's also already dead at that moment, and she's that's just all in like a you know, near death experience situation happening where she's just hallucinating it. But that's how I took it. Like she's sitting there praying, he's he's crawling over to her, right? And like her prayers worked, maybe and got her and got God to like get her up for like a half a minute and then save her.

SPEAKER_00 59:52

So well, before we get into that, let's let's talk about her finding the people because I want to get really into this like ending.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:00

I want to ask you, like, that moment after she slights, he like kills her, and he says, like, don't worry, she'll come back, and then she's like, Oh, I don't know what's going on. Why isn't she coming back? This is awkward. Do you think he actually believed that she was gonna come back, or do you think he's again just lying to her to control her?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:16

I think he's just lying. Like, what reason would he possibly have to do?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:19

You don't see him as like maybe he's just crazy now at this point, and he's just like no. Okay, I don't.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:24

I think everything about him is control, not necessarily like mania.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:30

Yeah. I don't know. I think it's inconsistent in the movie. Like, I can't really tell if he is like actually a mastermind or not. Like when he goes up to answer the door, he seems genuinely like confused of what to do in this. Like, you didn't even think what happened if someone knocks on the door, and also why answer the door at all?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:48

I guess if I'm gonna overthink it and write the plot for myself, that his assumption would be that somebody would come looking for them, and that would be his opportunity to get them up the stairs to switch the bodies, like but that's it's it's heavily relying on a easily foibble plan to go perfectly.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:09

Yeah. That's what I'm saying. Like, I don't think he's really a m like a mastermind. No. Or I'm sorry, I don't think it's consistent in that's like in his portrayal of this character. I think when he brings out the contraception device and then it's in her arm and he doesn't know what that is.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:23

Well, no, I think that's really I think that's when he was riffing, though, when she calls him out that like you're riffing because But that wasn't had I don't think that had something to do with it. I thought it did because that's what she kind of says, like when because the prophet says whatever like she's supposed to say, but then she says none of it's real or whatever. Um, and then Sarah Paxton, Sarah Paxton's sister Paxton, out of nowhere, like gets her balls and and and suddenly starts. This this part is actually the hardest part for me to believe is that suddenly she's she's figured out how to question everything all of a sudden. Yeah. Um, and it's really not just that she started questioning things, but she's really that insightful all of a sudden about how she's questioning things. And so he does the whole like because he'd seen the scar on her arm, so he knew that she had like we there was emphasis on that shot that in the living room, so he knew she had the end plant. So he's intentionally now going with this simulation theory because his first theory got foiled. So I think that was intentional.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:28

Yeah. To your point with um her all of a sudden like having all this insight. But I I like that. I think that's part of again this sort of like belief thing that we keep talking about, where it's like people don't want to have to think, right? So they they fall into whatever cults, religion, whatever, right? Like, and I think deep down she knows things are off the whole time.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:54

Yeah, like it doesn't mean deep down people don't have questions. Like, I don't think she's stupid.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:59

I don't think she ever was stupid. I think she's following along, and now she has to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:02

That's a really good point, is choosing to just follow.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:06

Yeah, like she's raised, like again, it's the condition.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:09

Doesn't mean idiocy, it means that the things that you're questioning, you're you're pushing down and choosing to not question you don't.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:19

Yeah, he has a line in the movie where he's like, you make decisions based on what someone told you when you were in your informative ages. Like, to me, that's what the whole movie's about. It's about if control is what this religion he's talking about, then that starts when you're two years old.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:33

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:34

Who with whoever's raising you. And if you're lucky enough to uh or if you're able or you're intelligent enough to like self-reflect and question things in certain situations, which I think she's doing in this movie, then maybe that's the answer to being controlled, being manipulated, right? Yep. Anyway, I don't know. Maybe it's not that deep. Maybe maybe it's not that and I'm just I mean, I feel like they intended to.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:00

I'm I'm sure as they were writing this, they were going crazy deep and then trying to bring it back and then going deeper. Well, I wonder, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:07

And that's why when I say like turn your brain off a little bit, because I think like we can sit here and like get deep about it, but executionally wise, like I don't know if it actually is. It's hard to tell if it's intentionally supposed to be this deep.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:19

Fair. So then she's she's kind of calling out that his plan's gonna arrive.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:24

She keeps getting there to do things, finds finds the door and the floor, and he's like, it go down there, and she's like, Okay. And he's like, Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:33

Which at that point, I'm like, why did he want her to go down there?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:36

Like because it's about control. He he's controlling her and her every decision, right? No matter what happens, no matter what he does, she still thinks, because the way he's speaking, there's a way out of this. Like she still thinks I can get away if I just listen and do in an impully and do it.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:54

Well, at that point she doesn't, though, because he he asks, despite everything she's learned that night, why she's still doing it, and she says, Because I want the answer. So at this point, how she's thinking about it has changed. And she says, I like like she says something about like, I want to know what what the truth is now. Like, not I want to be blind to your games anymore. I I want to know what actually is fucking happening. And she and she goes and she finds that with all the women kept in cages under uh little uh what what are those things they put up at the uh uh uh amusement parks, the little water spritzers?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:32

Oh, like the hamster, the hamster thing?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:35

No, or the the saline dripers, the misters.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:38

I have no idea what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:40

You know, like when you're standing in line in an amusement park and the mist pours down on you, because you're just gonna be. Oh, misters.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:45

I thought you were talking about like the the saline drip that's I'm like, they don't do that in amusement parks.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:49

I wish.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:50

Disneyland Brandon saline drip comes out on the lines.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:54

No, I'm just talking about the mist pouring on them. Everything down there must be so fucking sticky and stuff. Well, I'm such an idiot.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:00

Because like when you made the fucking seven, you know, depths of hell reference earlier, Dante's Inferno or whatever. Duh.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:07

And you've seen how many levels he can get her to go down.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:10

There's that one level where all you know all the bodies are like in like touching each other and you don't know where one begins and one. Like that's sort of what this area looks like in a way, with all these people in in cages, sort of just, I don't know, barely alive. Very deeply disturbing.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:25

Which the whole Dante's Inferno thing now makes me think that my new interpretation of the ending is more accurate than the first time I saw it. But so she goes down, she finds the women, not a whole lot happens. There's like confrontation where he's like, What is it? Like that like control is the ultimate. Well, she figures it out, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:44

Like, what's there's only one religion, it's control.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:46

Yeah. I think is it power that she says, or does she say control?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:50

No, it's control.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:51

Okay. But then she finally gets to stab him with the magic underwear knife.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:56

Which I think is also great because like they they tee it up earlier where like Isaac say, Matt, and you're gonna stab him, and then she doesn't do it. She gets too scared, or and then he stabs her quicker. And then he says magic underwear, and she immediately stabs him. Like I just think that's that's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:10

It's a good payoff.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:11

Yeah. But that's what this whole movie's about is control. And and that the way that religion and the way you're raised can control every action you make for the rest of your fucking life. Like I often think about my own actions and decisions and whether and how if I'm actually basing those because that's what I want, or because over time that's just like what was instilled into me to make those decisions and to want those things. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:36

Um so she stabs them, they get back up to that basement level, and he's like lying on her chest.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:44

Well, we just skipped over the best shot in the fucking movie.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:47

Which one?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:48

Where she's climbing up the ladder and then it goes out of her his little model of the house.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:53

Oh, I didn't love that one. And then she opens the door. It reminded me of Hereditary.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:58

But it it sells it when it's like she opens the door, like the camera comes up, and like this is the only shot this movie's gonna be remembered for. That's hilarious. It's coming up the ladder and then it like turns and she walks the door and closes. I mean, it's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:08

It reminded me of like the credits of uh haunting a hill house, my favorite.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:12

That's fair. That's fair. Anyway, but yeah, it's she he stabs her in the stomach.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:18

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:19

And then the other she stabs, well, she's already stabbed, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:23

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:24

Now, in this moment, is he finally like is the purpose of this moment like he's finally scared to die and like he wants her to pray for him? Is that what's happening?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:34

But as he's crawling on her, I think he's trying to actually attack her more, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:39

I think he ends up trying to attack her. Yeah, but I I do wonder if like he wants prayer at that moment. I I couldn't really hear what he was saying.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:47

I think it was more of a of a moment of defeat for him in that he couldn't actually push her to Well, he failed.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:56

She stabbed him, like she won. Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:58

But but that wasn't the failure. The failure was that at the end she was still praying. He could not break her faith.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:04

Oh, nice. Yeah. Oh, I guess you're right. I didn't put that together. Damn.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:08

So that was when he failed. Not kill killing her, isn't the failure. Never breaking her faith.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:12

But again, I guess that goes back to the question. It's like, what does he actually want? Does he want these people He wants to break their faith? But why? Because he just hates religion?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:20

Like, what is because he's a psychopath.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:22

Well, I know, obviously, but like, is it is it about him just wanting to like torture girls? Or is it about actually wanting them to lose their religion?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:31

Uh do you know what I'm saying? Like both, can't it be both? Porno.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:35

Well, I think that's where I it loses me a little bit because it's like it's one I mean, I don't know, but it's like one thing to want to like hurt people, and then another thing to also like, but on top of that, my real mission in life is to make sure before I kill you, you don't believe in God.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:49

Like, well, I think that's it though. Like, I think that's his like sick sadist trait is I want to take everything from you, and then once I have, well, what but was his intention to kill her? Wouldn't he have just made her one of his basement dwellers?

SPEAKER_02 1:10:06

I have no idea.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:07

Like, did he only have to kill them because his plan went awry?

SPEAKER_02 1:10:11

I don't know. But I don't know, honestly. And I also like part of me thinks like, is he also looking for the answer? Like, is he hoping that he's wrong? Like, is he hoping that something will show him that there is a lot of things?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:29

I think that he thinks that he is so right that he he is a megalomaniac and he has to prove to everybody else that they are wrong.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:38

Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:42

So, anyways, they're like lying there dying together, and she's praying, and then a miracle happens. And then the miracle happens, and the other sister gets up and clubs him with that piece of wood that conveniently fell down with the nails earlier.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:55

Yeah, you see, yeah, that close-up shot of those nails, and then you don't see it again until like the last two minutes.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:00

Yep, right as they're going through his fucking head.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:02

And then she dies, I guess, right after that.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:04

Yep. Which and then it was interesting to me because it was like that's when Sister Paxton was like holding her and like not when she first like got Well, I mean my Hugh Grant was over there with a box cutter. Fair.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:17

Fair, cutting cutting her arm open.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:19

Touche.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:21

But uh, she gets out.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:23

Yeah, she goes out through the window.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:26

And so it's snowing now.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:28

Yeah, now it's snowing, and so the thing we had then have to talk about is like in the beginning how she had had made that statement that when she died, she wanted to be a butterfly and land on the finger of like whoever she loved or whatever, so they'd know that she was okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:42

Well, also, uh Hugh Grant talks about the butterfly dream.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:47

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:48

Right? Where like, am I a butterfly dreaming to be a human or am I a human dreaming to be a butterfly?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:53

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:54

Which one's real or whatever?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:57

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:57

So I'm just saying that's it's a motif.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:00

Yeah, it keeps happening. Like when they get to the basement and there's a butterfly up in the little like well, something about her cell phone too.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:07

Like she still didn't have service, right? When she got out of the walls.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:09

Right. So here's the thing. So the first time I saw this movie and she gets out, I didn't pay attention to the cell phone not having service. I just saw, I was like, oh, she got out. I took it literally. I saw the butterfly land on her finger, and I was like, oh, it's the other sister missionary landing on her finger, like everything's okay. And I was like, happy ending. Watching it this time, I was like, oh, she died. She didn't make it out. She doesn't have service. Suddenly she's in the snow, the like ninth level of hell, and there's no cell phone service, and there's this butterfly, which could be Sister Paxson, it could be him, or she's dreaming as the butterfly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:52

Maybe she's a butterfly dreaming.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:53

This time I totally because I the thing is like when she caught out the window this time, and I'm looking around, and I'm like, nothing about where she came out reveals that she is actually outside of the house.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:06

So I was like, oh, she died.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:08

She might have died. I mean, they make this big con they have this big uh conversation about near-death experiences and hallucinating earlier, and maybe that's what's happening right now.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:17

Yeah. And that's what I totally think is happening.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:18

I think she's supported by the idea that she wants to come back as a butterfly or whatever. And I love the shot of like her watching the butterfly fly away, but there's no butterfly. It's just her eyes like going like this.

unknown 1:13:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:28

I love that. Yeah, didn't catch that. Good one, buddy.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:31

Yeah. Well, you see it land on her finger and then start, and then she goes like this. But you don't see a butterfly. Oh. It's the last shot of the movie.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:38

Well, but how'd you interpret it? Were you immediately like, oh, she dead? Or were you?

SPEAKER_02 1:13:41

The first time I watched it, I was just like, She got away. I don't care. Like, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:43

Same.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:44

And then now watching this movie, really watching it to try to like figure out what's the theme here. You know, all this symbolism and whatnot. I go, oh, maybe she'd maybe they left it ambiguous, regardless. Like, I don't think that there's a permanent answer, but like, I think, yeah, she's probably she can be dead in this.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:05

Fucking hate ambiguous endings. I I cannot take them. Like, yeah, yeah. I need I need to know. You just fucking tell me. How did it fucking end up?

SPEAKER_02 1:14:14

Whatever you want, though. That's the best part of it. Whatever you want is there.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:17

Yeah, I don't like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:18

You want her to be alive? She's alive. And that was Sister Pax or whatever landing on her finger. But it's funny because Maybe it was Hugh Grant landing on her finger.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:25

I can't think of another movie though with an ambiguous ending where I've watched it once, felt like something happened, watched another time, and been like, oh, it's the complete opposite thing that happened. Which is cool. I think that's a cool thing about this movie.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:37

Well, I think it depends. I think like it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if she's alive or dead in this movie.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:42

Because she won. Because he couldn't break her face.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:45

Because she won, exactly. Those are the best kinds of endings. Like when you can be like. It's not a cliffhanger. It's not like, oh, we'll never know. But it's just like it doesn't. The movie, the point of the movie has been told now.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:57

So it's just the cherry on top at this point.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:59

I still fucking hate ambiguous endings, man. Hate them.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:02

Which one? I'm struggling to even think of other ones now, but I tend to enjoy them if they're done right.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:08

Fair. I mean, this one I would say is done very well.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:12

Anyway. Final thoughts of this movie. Anything else that you want to say? Did I rant too much in this episode? No, not at all. Let us know in the comments if Ben needs to talk less.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:27

Yeah, let us know. Uh, I really appreciated a comment we got this morning on our black phone episode, like right after it dropped black phone two. Um, somebody immediately like had already put a comment before I even woke up, and it was, I agree with Maddie. And then it's one thing, and I was like, fuck yes, you're my homie. Let's go.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:48

About what? About what specific thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:52

Do you want me to read it to you? No, does she say what she agrees about? Why do you assume it's a she?

SPEAKER_02 1:15:59

Or he? Sorry, I don't I don't know. I did assume it was a she though.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:02

We've we we do. I'm just gonna read it to you so you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:06

Um boom, boom, boom.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:12

Oh, okay. It was on black phone. Well, they they never mind, it isn't for the second one. It says, I agree with Maddie. This film isn't as good as the first. I felt it lacked the progression and the build the black phone had so well with detailed flashbacks, direct connections to Finney, to the culmination of him taking down the grabber with all the other kids' help. But the sequel is still very good. I appreciated the focus switch from Finny to Gwen, also with the grabber sort of entering dreams and location switches to the lake camp. It honors the other horror franchises like Nightmare on Elm Street and Friday the 13th.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:49

Did I not say that?

SPEAKER_00 1:16:51

No, you did, which is why I thought it was funny that it specifically said I agree with Maddie. I loved it.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:55

I mean, I agree with Maddie too. So we got that in common.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:01

Made me happy.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:03

You're her number one fan. Or his fan. Yeah. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:07

My favorite listener.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:08

Yeah, is it Nicole?

SPEAKER_00 1:17:10

It's not. This listener, I hope they don't mind a shout-out. It is sci-fi Aaron.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:16

Cool, Aaron. Well, if you're still listening, let me know if I'm ranting too much.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:22

Let us know, Aaron. Aaron's great uh because they comment on all our posts and like actually like engage with our content a lot and are great for conversation.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:33

So I would I would I want their feedback.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:35

Does Ben rant too much?

SPEAKER_02 1:17:37

Yeah, I want to know. I'm not gonna stop. But maybe I'll tone it down just a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:43

No, I like when you I like when you I think Chloe.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:48

There's gonna be plenty of times where I have nothing to say and you guys and I'm gonna be like, why am I even doing this?

SPEAKER_00 1:17:53

I I 100% agreed with my wife when she was like, You guys need to watch more cerebral films because she knows you'll shine in the conversation. Because this ain't her podcast.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:08

She can tell us what to watch. All right. I need this, I need some suggestions because like I don't know what what should we watch next? Tell us. Chloe, tell us.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:19

Let us know in the comments, Chloe.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:21

Yeah. Chloe East tell us. What horror movie should we watch next? Is there going to be uh heretic two?

SPEAKER_00 1:18:32

It would Mom, what would you do with Heretic 2?

SPEAKER_02 1:18:35

I guess you'd have to do a prequel.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:37

Yeah. Ooh, that could be interesting.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:39

Get a young Hugh Grant, de-age him.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:42

It would be interesting to see how how the first woman was caught, and if he had a wife.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:50

She doesn't have a house then. It's just like an apartment. You know.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:56

Just the first level of hell.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:57

You're hating this conversation. I can tell. You're like, let's end this shit. So we're gonna end it. Final thoughts on the movie.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:06

It's a good one. I think it I I what I like about this movie is that it actually inspires debate.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:12

I'm not gonna walk away from it and be like, oh, I liked it or I didn't like it. This was a cool kill. Like, I I'm like, it it gave me something to think about. I don't think you walk away from that from horror with that as much.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:25

Yeah. I mean, it feels it's nice to watch a movie where there's tension, yet it's all conversation the whole time.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:30

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:31

You know?

SPEAKER_00 1:19:32

Anytime you can pull off a talkie is a horror, I'm about it.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:35

Yeah. And you feel claustrophobic the whole time. You feel like you're trapped in there with them, with this crazy dude. Yeah. All these close-ups of his face. You're just like, ugh, too close.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:46

When he like riffs a little bit and he's like talking through the thing, and he's like, I'm a weirdo joke.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:52

I couldn't tell if they could hear him or not during that moment.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:56

It was so weird. I thought it was funny.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:59

Um, I also like when he when he meowed, you know, when apparently that was improv.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:04

Yeah, I read that too, which is hilarious. And made the girls laugh. I feel like it has got to be so fun to play a crazy person and just to feel free to try whatever.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:14

Yeah. I agree. It's gotta be funny. Good movie. I agree. I think it's a good movie. I think it's enjoyable. I just think if you start to think about it the way that we do, it starts to break.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:27

Yeah. Don't dive too deep.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:30

Nah, just enjoy the ride. Enjoy the ride. Well, you know, they took him ten years to make this big movie, so it seems like a long time.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:42

It took him ten years. Give him ten minutes of thought afterwards.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:46

Yeah. You're right. You're right. Alright, well next. I don't know what we're recording next. We got we got Hokum. Is that this weekend? Do you have to go watch that this weekend?

SPEAKER_00 1:20:57

No, it's it's gonna be a fast one. Um, so this will come out next week, and then we have to see Hokum and record on Sunday. We gotta do a fast turnaround.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:07

Love those.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:08

Always a blast.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:10

Yep. I got so much time to edit this one now.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:13

And yet my money's on the fact that you'll edit it Tuesday morning. No, I won't.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:19

I won't. In my defense, I started editing this week's on Monday. So fair. I like to do it over two days because like I just need to walk away. My ADD kicks in. I'm just like, I can't do that right now.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:31

Fair. Have you edited Terrifier yet? Are we ever gonna do those? No.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:37

I haven't. Alright, well, till next time. Thanks for listening. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:47

Peace out. Bye. Later.