Hokum: A film that can't commit to its many plot points.

This week on Slasher Bash.  Maddi and Ben discuss the new horror movie Hokum starring Adam Scott.  

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:25

Let's do this, bitch. The other one that kept scaring me wasn't even um I was sitting on the end, but I had to sit in the front row because I ended up making an earlier showing. And they would just keep walking past me in the middle of 10 scenes, like the service. I was like, oh God. That could be. It was fucking terrible.

SPEAKER_04 0:43

That sucks. Yeah, I I went at 10 45. In the morning? This is the start of the recording, by the way. We'll just we'll do the intro after this. Yeah, I went at 1045 in the morning because like I figured no one would be there. And I don't want to like be in a horror movie by myself, too, watching this scary movie. And it was packed. Yeah, mine was completely and there was drunk people because I could hear them be like, I'm drunk right now, blah blah blah. And I was like, oh my god, coming from brunch or some shit? What's happening?

SPEAKER_01 1:08

I was like, oh, cool. They just put a hot dog on the menu. But I'm like on my phone, and I like my eyes can't focus, so I'm like not looking at prices or whatever. I'm like, yeah, hot dog sounds good. And then I get my bill. 15 fucking dollars for a hot dog.

SPEAKER_04 1:21

But you love a hot dog.

SPEAKER_01 1:23

I do, but I can buy five packs of Nathan's for that. Three packs. Three packs. Oh god, Nathan's is by far the best. People will like advertise and be like, we have Nathan's hot dogs, and I'll eat it. I'm like, that's not Nathan's. I want my money back.

SPEAKER_04 1:35

You'll know.

SPEAKER_01 1:36

Oh god, I don't know if it's a Nathan's.

SPEAKER_04 1:38

Why are they advertising that then?

SPEAKER_01 1:39

Because I think they start off doing that, but then when they like run out, it's like, oh, just go get some cheap dogs.

SPEAKER_04 1:44

Get some ballparks.

SPEAKER_01 1:45

Yeah. It's the fucking bowling alley that we used to be at that used to do that. They'd be like, get two Nathan's hot dogs, blah blah blah. And like not once was it ever actually a Nathan's.

SPEAKER_04 1:54

I bet you they just like stopped getting them and they just didn't want to change the menu because that's too much work.

SPEAKER_01 1:59

Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 2:00

You know? That's like wait, what time did you see the movie?

SPEAKER_01 2:04

Uh 12 15. Oh, okay. The same time that I was supposed to get on my flight that I booked for twelve hours earlier.

SPEAKER_04 2:12

So we basically saw the movie the exact same time. Like you were in the movie while I was in the movie.

SPEAKER_00 2:16

Oh yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_04 2:18

I we just I just got out before you.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 2:20

So I had to sit through 30 minutes of trailers. By the way, did you get that ice cream man trailer?

SPEAKER_01 2:26

No, but I had seen it before. Eli Roth.

SPEAKER_04 2:29

It's like Eli Roth like watched weapons is like, wait, I have a better idea.

SPEAKER_01 2:34

Should we do our intro real quick so that we can like do a detail these things? Like I did the last one.

SPEAKER_04 2:39

Okay, welcome to the Slasher Best, the podcast podcast where we talk about horror movies.

SPEAKER_00 2:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:45

We really simplify simplified that intro. Simplified simplify. Isn't that like a marine thing?

SPEAKER_01 2:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:52

What does that mean?

SPEAKER_01 2:53

It's like loyalty.

SPEAKER_04 2:58

That's not what I expected.

SPEAKER_01 2:59

Well, I mentioned this in our heretic episode when I had to go to that Mormon church summer camp thing, EFY.

SPEAKER_04 3:07

Yeah. Oh, you know what? Hang on one second. Go ahead, finish your story first.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

Uh like they divide you into like teams or whatever, and so our team leader's brother had just joined the Marines, so she made Simperfy our team mascot.

SPEAKER_00 3:20

And then we had to do like a chant, and it was like Simplify, Simplify, Yellow Y A L T Y. Is that you spell loyal T? I hope I spelled that right. If I didn't cut it out.

SPEAKER_04 3:31

No. I'm not gonna skull check you. You're just we're stuck with whatever that spelling was. I mean it rhymed, it lined up right.

SPEAKER_01 3:40

So it's the the syllables felt right, but I was like, I I'm I'm winging this, I don't know how to spell for shit.

SPEAKER_04 3:46

So Yeah, same.

SPEAKER_01 3:48

Do you remember when we worked on Jeopardy and um we would like do all the updates to the website? Yeah. And I put Matt, what's his name, the Broadway guy. Instead of Paralegal, I'd put Paragax. And Rocky just screenshotted that and sent it to Shannon and was like, so when are you hiring a proofreader? That's awesome. Was that your plan for us to get a proofreader? Well, do you know what happened with that? You can't put this on the air. You have to cut this out.

SPEAKER_04 4:16

I don't know how to transition from that all that shit we just cut out.

SPEAKER_01 4:19

Yep. Well anyhow. I'll just keep that part in.

SPEAKER_04 4:24

Um anyway, wait, wait, wait, wait. Let's finish the intro. This is Slasher Bash. I'm one of your hosts, Ben, with my co-host Maddie.

SPEAKER_01 4:32

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 4:33

And we talk about horror movies because we love them.

SPEAKER_01 4:35

Damn straight.

SPEAKER_04 4:37

And today we're talking about a brand new movie called Hokum. Which, real quick, did you look everybody?

SPEAKER_01 4:44

You're you're gonna give the stats first and then I wanna say what Hokum what Hokum meant.

SPEAKER_04 4:48

Oh, okay, yeah. It was written and directed by Damian McCarthy, budget of five million dollars. This is the first weekend, so I don't know how much it made. Metacritic was 78. Which is higher than both black phones.

SPEAKER_01 5:02

It's also in like the 90s on Rotten Tomatoes right now.

SPEAKER_04 5:05

Well, Rotten Tomatoes is a scam, so who fucking cares?

SPEAKER_01 5:10

Not Ben.

SPEAKER_04 5:11

Not me. Anyway, what were we gonna say?

SPEAKER_01 5:14

Well, I looked up what Hokum meant. Did you do that?

SPEAKER_04 5:17

No, but I'm assuming it means like that's just supernatural slang.

SPEAKER_01 5:24

Foolishness or like nonsense. Like you'd be like, instead of like it's you know, I assume it's more of like the like Irish version of Hocus Pocus, like it's just a bunch of Hokum.

SPEAKER_04 5:32

Right, yes. That's that was my interpretation of it.

SPEAKER_01 5:35

Yeah. Which definitely makes it fit well for the movie.

SPEAKER_04 5:40

Yeah. He also says it in the movie, which I can't help but cringe.

SPEAKER_01 5:44

I 100% miss that. Oh, you did?

SPEAKER_04 5:48

It was when he was drinking at the bar and he was and then that guy came over and said, I saw the I saw the witch. Or my my he was talking about his experience with the witch.

SPEAKER_01 5:56

Oh, I did. That's when I was trying to figure out ordering my fucking hot dog. The guy he burned with the spoon.

SPEAKER_04 6:01

Yes, that guy. What a dick.

SPEAKER_01 6:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:03

Not not the guy he burnt, the guy who did the burning.

SPEAKER_01 6:06

The main guy.

SPEAKER_04 6:07

Ohm. Ohm, yeah, what a what a crazy name.

SPEAKER_01 6:11

Ohm Bomb, is that it? Okay, before we get into the movie and and we discuss, I mean, I mean, I feel like we should just be like first, no spoilers, initial thoughts, and then we'll like break it down. But before we get into that, okay. There were a lot of horror trailers. I don't know about yours, but mine were all horror trailers. And I thought Evil Dead Burns looked really good.

SPEAKER_04 6:31

Didn't get it.

SPEAKER_01 6:32

And then I got one for a movie called Leviticus that comes out next month. Oh like is um I didn't think it was a horror thing at first. It was like two gay guys and like a small cowp. Oh yeah, I saw that one too. I didn't catch the name. That actually looked really fucking good. So we might have to do those. And then I got I saw it at the Alamo. So I got my pre-show. You know how they do their like little like don't talk and text, ha ha funny video.

SPEAKER_04 6:54

Yeah, I love that.

SPEAKER_01 6:55

So this one was the weirdest one I've ever fucking had, and I am actually surprised I could get away with it. Excuse me, I'm doing my my snory pig noises that you have to edit. We gotta edit all that shit out. Yep. So the the don't talk and text video I got, it was like this guy just came back from the bathroom after talking and texting, and the theater was empty, except for uh chick's severed head sitting on the seat, and then the severed head attacks him and bites onto his crotch, and he's like trying to get it off and like is like swinging around trying to get the head off his crotch and then flings it away, and then it comes back and bites him in the ass. And then it was like, Don't talk and text.

SPEAKER_04 7:34

I feel like you made that up. I know I was like, Were you on shrooms? Like, that's insane. Yeah, I was actually yeah, because what I'm imagining is so absurd and ridiculous that I have a hard time imagining that I feel like they could have gotten away with the head.

SPEAKER_01 7:52

Well, I mean, they got away with it, they did it. I saw it, but I'm like, okay. Everything I think was like, oh, whatever, but like actually biting on the crotch, I was like, and he's like trying to bang the head up against the uh movie seat, like chair.

SPEAKER_04 8:06

So it's just like very like there's so many things wrong with this whole video.

SPEAKER_01 8:11

It was so now I'm like, everybody go to the Alamo and tell me if you get that same weird don't talk in text video.

SPEAKER_04 8:18

How do you pitch this?

SPEAKER_01 8:19

I don't under I don't understand that. I don't either.

SPEAKER_04 8:22

That's weird. So I did I guess you'd have to be there.

SPEAKER_01 8:25

I wrote that down and was like gonna have to definitely talk about that weird fucking thing that just I would love to break that scene down.

SPEAKER_04 8:30

Maybe I should find it online.

SPEAKER_01 8:32

I'd love to break down the pitch.

SPEAKER_04 8:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:36

Anyway, that's that's absurd and disgusting. Yeah. And awkward.

SPEAKER_01 8:40

So that was my intro to the movie.

SPEAKER_04 8:42

Yeah. Okay. Well, did it put you in the right mood for the movie?

SPEAKER_01 8:47

Um no.

SPEAKER_04 8:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 8:50

I think, okay. I think Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:53

Wait, wait, wait. Are you gonna talk about what you like about the movie?

SPEAKER_01 8:56

Yeah, like just my initial feelings, no spoilers.

SPEAKER_04 8:58

Okay, real quick. You I didn't see a trailer for this movie. You've seen a trailer because you're the one who was like, we should read it.

SPEAKER_01 9:02

Yeah, I saw the trailer and then I was like, I'm not gonna look up anything else. It looks dope. I wanna see it.

SPEAKER_04 9:07

Yeah, okay. So what yeah, what are your thoughts? Your your your big overall thoughts.

SPEAKER_01 9:12

Okay, so this is always exciting for me because like I will say that um I I did go in in kind of a funk when I went and saw it. Okay, let's um and I saw it alone, so that might have affected it. And I was kind of just like I felt like it was good, but there was like nothing new. It just felt like pieces of other movies. Let's take the good from this, let's take the good from that, let's slap it all together and make it pretty.

SPEAKER_04 9:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:41

And I I mean it was like it was good. Like But I I came out of it and I was like, I won't I feel like this might be how Ben felt about the strangers.

SPEAKER_04 9:51

Uh no.

SPEAKER_01 9:51

No, you just hated that movie.

SPEAKER_04 9:54

I don't well, you know what? I don't hate strangers. I I was harsh on strangers.

SPEAKER_01 9:58

But well people are not gonna know that.

SPEAKER_04 10:01

Nobody's listened to it, so um I a hundred percent agree with you. Yeah, you thought this is a fucking mess of a movie, and I I think it's bad. But I agree, I think there's moments in it that I was like, oh now this is kind of cool. And then like that would immediately get it's got great moments for sure. But then it would those will get erased by like the next scene. I'd be like, okay, this is dumb again. What are we doing?

SPEAKER_01 10:27

What I told Chloe when I came home, she was like, Did you like it? I was like, it's not that I was like, it's a bad movie, but it was like I think the idea that they had, they didn't have enough there to make a movie. So they then tried to add on like two other storylines, and so it was basically three storylines all trying to come together as one, but it just didn't and then really none of them r resolve except for one of them, sort of.

SPEAKER_04 10:54

Yeah. I honestly I think that's weird. Like I agree with you, but I think it actually is a bad movie, but it's just like it's it's made in a way where like it's hard to like notice that it's bad, if that makes any sense.

SPEAKER_01 11:07

It is well made. I think I don't think the the directing or the filmography is bad or the acting, like all of those elements were good. I think it probably wasn't the strongest script.

SPEAKER_04 11:16

No, it I just yeah, and I agree with you. It was like there's all these plot points happening, but it's so contrived. Like there was and we'll just go in full spoilers now. So if you don't want to know spoilers, I would go go check it out or don't, based on what we just said. Um but there's a lot of plot points that just like didn't make any sense to me.

SPEAKER_01 11:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:37

Like, why did he even kill that girl?

SPEAKER_01 11:41

Because he was married and he'd gotten her pregnant.

SPEAKER_04 11:44

Oh, yeah, they kind of glossed that over.

SPEAKER_01 11:45

But my whole thing with the hides her in the basement? My whole thing with that was he didn't even actually kill her, he just trapped her in the basement to what and hope that no one figures it out at all. Like, is there no cameras in that place?

SPEAKER_04 11:59

Like Well, he said there's no way in the basement, so I guess he he was just hoping she would starve to death down there. But then I'm also confused.

SPEAKER_01 12:07

He's he's comfortable enough to drug her so that he can get her in the basement, but it's like, okay, then just if you're gonna drug her to kill her, just drug kill her. Don't make her then suffer for weeks and starve to death.

SPEAKER_04 12:20

But even the the the sort of explanation for why he did that seems so tacked on, and it was one sentence in the movie where it's like it almost would make more sense if we saw a scene of him and her hooking up, and then her be like, I'm pregnant, and then him be like, You have to like get rid of the baby, and then he like kills her in the moment or something. Like, it's so bizarre to me.

SPEAKER_01 12:40

All their interactions, it's not like anything about them reads any sort of like attention or anything at all. Yeah. And you like she's so like cute and young and fresh and hip, and it's like I'm really supposed to believe that she was boning this bozo.

SPEAKER_04 12:54

Exactly. And also he's like, make sure you make sure you drink your tea. I just gave you.

SPEAKER_01 12:58

I know that was so fucking You're a bartender. There are a lot of things that were so on the nose that were just like, come on.

SPEAKER_04 13:04

Well, that's what I'm saying. It's so contrived. Like, even like why we had to have a scene where he kills himself, so he tries to kill himself. Like, nothing before that scene really like played as if like he was like a suicidal person. He tries to kill himself. And then they never really talk about that ever again.

SPEAKER_01 13:21

Yeah. So, okay.

SPEAKER_04 13:23

As far as like But they just needed a reason for him to stay there and like to look for this woman.

SPEAKER_01 13:30

So, like, oh, she saved you from it's just it's like so okay, so we open in, it's like he's riding and like he sees mom ghost on the stairs.

SPEAKER_02 13:38

Yeah, and this scene doesn't make sense either.

SPEAKER_01 13:40

It made more sense. I I have been thinking about it all along time today now, and I'm like, oh, okay, so I think what it was trying to show is that the ghosts are always there. It actually is the mushrooms that make you able to see them. But it took me a while of thinking about it to get there. So I was like, okay, so he's always been followed by his mom's ghost. Now he's tapped into this other level of consciousness. Now he can connect and forgive himself or whatever, you know. The thing that I hated in that scene though is when you see the urns and it's got their names on them, and then it says, Mom, dad. Like, we don't need to fucking see mom, dad. We get it. Like, if we're two fucking.

SPEAKER_04 14:19

I know. There was a shot where he when he when the girl comes up in the in the dumbwaiter, and like it's the girl, and then all of a sudden there's just this like random close-up shot of her name tag in case we didn't realize it was the girl we're looking for. Yeah. Like, um, there was like so many shots like that. I was like, I didn't need that.

SPEAKER_01 14:34

I know it's it's that whole thing we've been talking about where like films are being ruined because we think people aren't paying attention, so you have to like connect the dots for them. No, if somebody can't pay attention to a fucking movie, let them be fucking confused. Don't ruin the fucking movie that you've spent millions of dollars to make.

SPEAKER_04 14:50

Yeah, they're yeah, I 100% agree with you. And I think that's to the drip the detriment of this movie, too. Like, they also added in a bunch of stupid shit we didn't need. Yeah, like all those like different things.

SPEAKER_01 15:01

Well, so the suit to go back to the suicide thing. So he's like the mom, dad earns whatever, and I was like, Oh, Jesus Christ, that's that's fucking stupid. Um, and but then he like breaks the lock on that box and the gun was in it.

SPEAKER_02 15:14

Right.

SPEAKER_01 15:14

And I immediately was like, Oh, he's going back to I knew like the background was he goes back to this hotel, and I was like, Oh, he's gonna go kill himself there. So I immediately thought he was gonna kill himself.

SPEAKER_04 15:24

But that's not even what that gun was for. The gun was for like he accidentally shot his mom in the face.

SPEAKER_01 15:28

Yeah, but but as soon as I saw the gun, like I didn't know.

SPEAKER_04 15:33

Who gave him that gun?

SPEAKER_01 15:35

Yeah. And gave it to him with the club. Where did this gun come from? And it's like just in his like inherited possessions now. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:42

Why is the murder weapon not like it's bizarre and it doesn't make sense. That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01 15:48

Like, here's your gun back from the police that you accidentally shot and killed your mom with.

SPEAKER_04 15:53

I I tell you, if we were watching this movie live right now, almost every single scene you could pick apart about how contrived and dumb it is and how it doesn't make any sense. But the fact that it's got this like serious vibe over the whole thing, like you kind of just you you feel like it's elevated somehow. But it's not, it's really just there's a bunch of scenes that don't make sense stuck together.

SPEAKER_01 16:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:16

With some good moments, I there were a couple moments where I was like, okay, this is actually cool.

SPEAKER_01 16:19

I just wish once he's like trapped in the honeymoon suite. I thought that'd be better.

SPEAKER_04 16:24

Yeah. I 100% agree it gets better. But even the fact how even how he gets trapped in there is also just stupid. Why wouldn't that guy, who clearly is the reason that the body is there, just kill Adam Scott right then? Why did he go home? What, to catch some shut eye before he came back in the morning to kill him? Like, what was his plan of just leaving Adam Scott in the room?

SPEAKER_01 16:45

So my assumption is that he like just like with the girl's body, knowing that it's going into off-season or whatever, and everybody's leaving the hotel, I assume he figures they'll both die, and during off-season I can go back and retrieve the bodies without anybody being in the in the hotel.

SPEAKER_04 17:03

The girl was stuck in the basement where he's just in a room where you can clearly see outside and someone could maybe hit it.

SPEAKER_01 17:08

If the whole thing is the the dumb oh, never mind. Never mind, ignore me.

SPEAKER_04 17:13

Was that a dumb statement?

SPEAKER_01 17:14

It was a dumb waiter statement for a minute. Always the fucking dumbwaiter, though, man. Never get in a fucking dumbwaiter. Ever.

SPEAKER_04 17:21

Yeah. No, why I yeah, exactly. Well, to be fair, you put the girl in the dumbwaiter.

SPEAKER_01 17:25

That's true. That's true.

SPEAKER_04 17:26

Which I'm also confused about that situation. Because once she was down there and we're making these recordings, did she not get out of the dumbwaiter? Why did the witch never attack her? Did she just sit in the dumbwaiter the whole time? Because if she starved to death.

SPEAKER_01 17:37

Did the witch get her or did she starve to death?

SPEAKER_04 17:38

I have no idea because they didn't find the body of the guy at the end who the witch got. Why would they find her body?

SPEAKER_01 17:44

Yeah, that actually doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_04 17:45

None of it makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 17:46

But okay, so let's go back to when he first like gets to the hotel and he's like immediately like, Why are you killing goats? And then he like walks into the lobby and hears the like story of the witch, and he's like, Are those your kids? And then like tells the kids to like run off. And he's like, Don't talk to those kids. And then the guy says something else as he's like checking in, he goes, Why don't you mind your own business? And it's like, seriously, like you literally rolled up and got in everybody's business the second you got out of your fucking car.

SPEAKER_04 18:15

That's a good point. That's a good point. Yeah. Like that also, is there more lore that we're missing with this guy? Because like that that family photo that he that the killer gets at the end, to me, it looked like some of the people that were in the basement were in this photo. I thought, oh, it's gonna be like a relative of his living in that basement who's the witch or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 18:34

So his mom, I think, was like the ghost that was obviously like haunting him, right? Not the witch, though. No, I know, but I'm saying that I thought because that that lore story in the beginning with the witch dragging them, like I thought it was like into a tree or something. And so then where he was spreading the ashes, I thought that was actually gonna be like more involved, like where he's spread their ashes at the tree. Like I was like ready for like a crack to open up in the tree in a witch's hand dragged them. That'd be dope. Like Sleepy Hollow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:03

A good movie. We should do that movie. I love that. 100%. Um no, I'm saying like the guy who ends up being the murderer who killed like the girl or whatever. He's he's like looking at that family photo at the end of the movie that he's like says that he went back to get or whatever. That photo, it looked like the guy in the wheelchair at the beginning, like this old dude that he he tells like Yeah, that's his father-in-law. Okay, yeah. I thought that okay, this family is like all into witches because one of the one of the girls in this picture is the witch and and they put her in the basement.

SPEAKER_01 19:35

Here, okay, so we know that that the father in the I swear that's what they were hinting at. Yeah. Maybe I don't but so we know the father-in-law owns a hotel and has the witch trapped in his basement, right?

SPEAKER_04 19:46

Which is a family member, right?

SPEAKER_01 19:48

I don't know if it's a family member or not. Here's my thing.

SPEAKER_04 19:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:51

If there is a witch's door into hell in your basement, why the fuck are you like, well, we'll just still run a hotel? What could go wrong? We'll just put a fucking locked cage door.

SPEAKER_04 20:06

It would make sense maybe if they related to the witch.

SPEAKER_01 20:09

Maybe. I can tell you if there was an opening to hell in my basement that a witch was dragging people into. But hang on.

SPEAKER_04 20:15

Does that even how the witch works? Because the whole time I was like, how did this witch what is she eating rats down here? Like, or is she eating people? Or they then I thought, this is what this is my brain. This is how much of an imagination I have. I go, oh, it's a family member, and they're feeding it with people and goats.

SPEAKER_01 20:28

I thought that they were feeding the witch too. When he started putting her down the dumb waiter, I thought she was going to be an offering to the witch.

SPEAKER_04 20:35

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 20:35

And I don't know why that wasn't the thing because that would have connected the stories more instead of making them feel like loose stories that don't actually go together.

SPEAKER_04 20:42

Yeah, instead of randomly in one sentence be like, oh, actually she was pregnant with my kid or whatever. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01 20:47

Well, and it's just like it like it would have been so much better because now now instead it's just well, there's a story about a witch, cool, and then there's like a murder mystery, okay, and they have absolutely nothing to do with each other except for a dumb waiter.

SPEAKER_04 20:59

Exactly. We should just make a podcast where we just make bad movies better with our ideas.

SPEAKER_00 21:04

I like that.

SPEAKER_04 21:05

Like what we're doing right now. But even okay, so let's let's take a step back. So one of my problems with the movie too is like he happens to go to this place where his parents had a honeymoon. But also, just coincidentally, it's also where a witch lives.

SPEAKER_02 21:23

Yep. But do you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01 21:25

Like, but then that witch had nothing to do with the story of his parents' deaths or anything. Like I was expecting it to be some sort of like even poorly connected thing where it's like, oh, he didn't kill her, he was possessed by the witch or something. Like I was thinking, maybe the dad killed the mom on accident.

SPEAKER_04 21:42

Or maybe the mom and the dad, or the reason there's a witch there. Maybe that's where it all started.

SPEAKER_01 21:46

Or the mom's the witch. I like I was like trying so hard to connect them to the witch.

SPEAKER_04 21:52

Exactly. And it just this no. This movie is just a bunch of just like like, and then this scary thing happened. And this scary thing happened. And then and it's just a little bit more.

SPEAKER_01 22:01

With all like the disconnected things. Let's like talk about the opening and the ending, which are his like book ends. And it was like I hated it. I hated it.

SPEAKER_04 22:12

I didn't hate the opening, but they the way they resolved it, I think, makes it even worse because Oh, I did too.

SPEAKER_01 22:17

I wrote cheese ass fucking ending, fuck that, murder him.

SPEAKER_04 22:21

Also, do you remember the first shot of the movie is him taking off his like very hard helmet off his head? Why didn't he just go get the helmet and break the bottle over that?

SPEAKER_01 22:28

Oh, I didn't catch that, but yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:31

Also, I don't think a skull is gonna break that bottle.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

No.

SPEAKER_04 22:36

So contrived.

SPEAKER_01 22:37

It just was it just felt, I don't know. I get that it was like his book or whatever, but he was trying to make it not bleak, like scenes from a movie to fill like two different movies.

SPEAKER_04 22:48

If yeah. It doesn't even feel like that. It feels like a bunch of it feels like a bunch of uh notes in your Apple note app.

SPEAKER_01 22:55

Which is exactly what it was when he's explaining it to Fiona or whatever his name was at the bar, and he's like, so he kills the kid and the bottle doesn't break, and then he wanders into the desert. And just dies. Yep. It is funny because I do feel like he um maybe was meant to be like some sort of Stephen King type character. And Chloe asked me what what it reminded me of most watching it, and I was like, funnily enough, um that Stephen King won 1809 or whatever? Where he's trapped in the room, John Cusack. Yep, yep.

SPEAKER_04 23:30

I thought about that while I was watching the movie, and I actually haven't seen that movie, but I remember the trailer so very clearly in my mind that it is kind of like that movie. Um because also like the movie's called Hokum. So you think that's that is gonna be about a skeptic, right, who's like investigating or in a haunted place and like not believing, and then slowly over time becomes a believer, which is sort of what happens, I guess, because then he he realizes that he saw ghosts because of the mushrooms that he was taking.

SPEAKER_01 24:00

The mushroom milk, which again, adults drinking milk.

SPEAKER_04 24:03

Well, even the guy who came the bellhop who was like, I I have to apologize. I put mushrooms in that whiskey. Like, why would that be a punishment?

SPEAKER_00 24:11

Why would that be a plot point? I mean, I get it, it's like okay.

SPEAKER_01 24:16

We had two spikings of drinks in the same movie. We want him to take mushrooms to open his mind to be able to see Gus. Okay, cool. So he So here's what he's gonna do. He's gonna burn the bellboy with a spoon because the bellboy asked him to read his manuscript, and then the bellboy is gonna sneak into his room, get his flask, and put mushrooms in it.

SPEAKER_04 24:38

Yeah, that's why I'm saying it's so contrived. Like everything about this movie is like this. And and also it it it what would have happened if he didn't take the mushrooms? That none of that would have happened, he wouldn't have seen the witch at all. Like this, it's so weird. There's no the rules in this movie don't make any sense because there are none. It's just like scary things are happening, and don't worry about it as long as you're keeped out. And I think a lot of the scares are just jump scares. Yeah, it's all jump scares. There's so many jump scares in this movie, and it's really annoying, and I hate it.

SPEAKER_01 25:05

Yeah. Even like, well, as soon as like you get into that opening scene where he's like riding, and I was like, why is he riding in the dark?

SPEAKER_04 25:15

Not at all. I mean, that didn't that bothers me.

SPEAKER_01 25:18

I mean, do you write in the dark?

SPEAKER_04 25:20

No, but I mean Do you hang out in the dark on your own?

SPEAKER_01 25:23

Like, if you have one light on right now, it's just like I mean, same, but that's because this room doesn't have a light.

unknown 25:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:30

But I don't know. But it's immediately like, I guess now I know it's the mom on the stairs, and then she pops up behind him. And now we have put together that ghosts are always there, whatever, but you can't see them until you take shrooms. Less than another movie.

SPEAKER_04 25:45

Um but then they don't attack you unless you are like are on shrooms.

SPEAKER_01 25:50

But but it's like, why like if it's his mom and the whole point is like his mom's forgiveness and he's being haunted by her ghost? Why is it like scary, like pop-out mom all the fucking time until she's like, let me hold your heart and remember there's a saw there.

SPEAKER_04 26:04

It makes no sense.

SPEAKER_01 26:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:06

Can we talk about Jerry, my favorite character in this book? Jerry was my favorite character. And I wish he would have lived because he didn't deserve to die. All right, the whole town treated him like shit. He had to live in the fucking woods in a van down by the river.

SPEAKER_01 26:19

And then it's so good when he when they're like, Yeah, I heard you killed your wife, and he's like, Yes, I did. She was in pain, and I helped her end it. But euthanized her. Yeah. Um, no, Jerry was the best. And I literally, my notes were like, uh, it's so obvious that you should trust Jerry. It actually would be interesting if he turned out to be the bad guy because it's so obvious that he's the good guy.

SPEAKER_04 26:43

That would have been cool. But I like that he was a good guy. Uh, he was also got the best laughs in the like when he did the whole like it was she was like this.

SPEAKER_01 26:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:51

Pointing up to the bell. Pointing up at the bell. Uh I thought that was so funny. Like, there were some funny moments in this actually, which I think were good to have because the movie is such a bleak, like almost uninteresting movie for a lot of it.

SPEAKER_01 27:06

You need the laughs because you're going in with a main character who's an asshole. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:13

And so you need to like somebody.

SPEAKER_04 27:16

Yeah. I like Jerry.

SPEAKER_01 27:18

Inter Jerry. He was slow.

SPEAKER_04 27:20

I like how he kept coming back.

SPEAKER_01 27:21

You knew he was a good guy as soon as like you see him like sitting by the dead goat, and they're like having that conversation, and you he is like the goat defender, and it was like, okay, yeah, no, he's not yeah. And but then it's obviously like setting up the red herring of the goat killer.

SPEAKER_04 27:37

Which why so yeah, why even have this whole thing with the goats?

SPEAKER_01 27:42

Because they're symbols of Satanism and I think that's the other thing.

SPEAKER_04 27:47

Like they tried to be very symbolic in this movie with like the hearts everywhere and stuff, and I'm just like, this is so superficial, it means nothing. Yeah. And like the goat thing, like to have that huge scene when we saw the dead goat in the opening when he first gets to the hotel and we have a conversation about it. I'm like, oh, this this is gonna come back over and over and over again. And then we see the second dead goat, and which I guess maybe it wasn't, it was the same goat that they had just carried to the woods and left there. Um I don't know, like it means nothing, it's just they're just killing goats for no reason.

SPEAKER_01 28:18

I did laugh my ass off when he comes back from the woods then, and one of the goats is on the fucking cars.

SPEAKER_04 28:22

Yeah, that was funny. Yeah, but uh you know what I mean? Like, why are we same thing with the um the thing we talked about earlier with the uh I don't even remember what it was now, but where they have this like plot point, and then it's like they just drop like the suicide thing where it's like it would make more sense if like, oh, they were feeding the goats to the witch or something, or the witch was attracting goats to the house or something, but it's just like they're just killing goats in this movie for some reason.

SPEAKER_01 28:47

I didn't at all have a hard time buying that he was going there to kill himself. I did think that the sh the like just walking in on him having hung himself was actually like very shocking, and I was like, ooh, that trigger warning for some people. Um but yeah, it was like like I did not I 100% thought he was gonna kill himself before that scene. Like I thought that's what he went there to do. I did.

SPEAKER_04 29:10

No, but he talks about I'm I got a lot of work to do. Like he's like, I'm a writer, I'm a big one.

SPEAKER_01 29:14

But he was like, I gotta finish my book. He's writing the epilogue, he's not writing the prologue, so it's like he's ending his masterpiece.

SPEAKER_04 29:20

I didn't know where we were. I thought maybe we flashed back. Gotcha. It wasn't clear to me where we were.

SPEAKER_01 29:32

Like, I definitely thought that. Um, did not even if I think he was just gonna be like, okay, he survived and now we're moving on, and we're not addressing that.

SPEAKER_04 29:42

Well, I think that's my problem. It's not necessarily that they had an attempted suit, like he tried to kill himself. It was more like, okay, but then we just never going to acknowledge us later. This is like there was no the scene with the mom and him at the end about you have to live for me. Don't kill yourself. Like what it never comes back.

SPEAKER_01 30:00

I did write, where is it? Okay. Well, for when he goes back with Jerry, and I liked that they shot the hotel from like usually when you're like trying to make things look ominous, you know, you like shoot from down looking up at it, so it looks huge. But this one was like up above looking down on the hotel, and it was like really dark and ominous, and I was like, There's no fucking way I'm going in that fucking hotel. And then Jerry gets taken out by goat bully, and then uh somebody note was like if Ohm wasn't suicidal and obviously didn't have anything left to like live for in his mind, would he have been able to go in that room otherwise by himself after Jerry was gone?

SPEAKER_04 30:41

Oh, yeah. Well, I think that's the whole like obviously they needed a reason for him to go want to find this girl, and his motivation for wanting to find the girl was one, I think he had like a crush on her, but two, he she's like saved his life.

SPEAKER_02 30:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:53

So I think that's again the contrived reason. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:57

But for me, it was like I don't think anyone in their right mind Jerry, I believe, would have the balls to go into that room to look for her. Yeah. I do not believe this weasel dick asshole main character who's supposed to have a redemption arc but doesn't really, would have the fucking guts to go into that hotel by himself and continue exploring.

SPEAKER_04 31:21

Well, I don't know because if the point is he doesn't believe in the supernatural, and that's what this whole movie's like apparently about. Remember because he even He's like, I don't believe in whatever. Like you can like you could see that was part of it, like they wanted that to be part, because there's moments where he's like believing when he starts to draw the circle and chalk on around the bed and stuff to protect himself with the witch. Which hang on, hang on. But I think it's believable that he would go do it because he doesn't believe in like it's not creepy to him because it's just a fucking room, you know what I mean? Like that he doesn't believe in ghosts or anything or witches, so he's just like, I'm just gonna go, I just need to get in the room to see if this girl's in there. Yeah. Or not.

SPEAKER_01 31:57

Speaking of the circle with the witch, so he draws a chalk around the bed, and then it's like, well, the witch was outside for a while, and then he like took a nap, like, let's cut back to him sleeping, and it's like, okay. But then when he's in the basement and he draws a circle around him, but then Mal's going by in chains, and then he's signed the chains, and so there's chains on him too.

unknown 32:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 32:19

So how did the circle didn't work? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:21

Why? Why did it work on the bigger?

SPEAKER_04 32:22

I took it. He didn't finish and he got because remember, there's that jump cut where he he backs up and like you see the face of which I didn't think that was the face of the witch. I thought it was a different family member. I'm going with this whole family thing. Um, I think he didn't complete the square because he was handcuffed too.

SPEAKER_01 32:37

He didn't complete the square because it was a circle. I mean the circle.

SPEAKER_04 32:41

Square is harder to draw quickly. Um, but the other thing is like, even with the bed, though, I mean it's not a complete circle. He just did from a wall, and it's like it was like a horseshoe. Yeah, it doesn't make sense. Also, in that moment, if I know I'm protected by this circle, I'm gonna open the the curtains.

SPEAKER_00 32:58

Yeah, what was that?

SPEAKER_04 32:59

And I'm gonna try to talk to the witch.

SPEAKER_00 33:00

Be like, what'd you brought now, bitch?

SPEAKER_04 33:02

Yeah, no, I'll be like, uh, can I help you? I'm trying to like, have you seen a girl? I'm trying to figure out what happened.

SPEAKER_01 33:08

It really, since you've brought it up, there's I mean, there's so many contrived things, like you said, that don't make sense and don't come together. None of it does. Why didn't the witch take the girl to her little hellroom?

SPEAKER_04 33:18

Yes, that's what I'm saying. That's why I don't think she died from the witch. I think she just starved to death.

SPEAKER_01 33:22

Which doesn't make sense if she's in that basement where you're down there for an hour and the witch comes and gets you.

SPEAKER_04 33:27

Also, I'm imagining like you're wandering around the basement, you're getting hungry, you're slow, you're gonna crawl back into the little tiny cubby to die.

SPEAKER_00 33:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:35

In the exact same position you were in.

SPEAKER_00 33:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:38

When he threw you in there? Like, was that a hallucination? I guess any of this could be a hallucination, too. I guess, but like when they introduced that that thing at the end where, like, oh, you took mushrooms or whatever. I was like, oh, so none of this was real. It was just hallucinating the whole thing.

SPEAKER_01 33:55

No, I think that was meant to make him think that, but then he looks down and he sees the marks on his wrist from the chain. So he But that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_04 34:02

It's weird that they wouldn't.

SPEAKER_01 34:04

I think it was to connect him to back to what Jerry said. He Jerry had had some sort of line about like alcohol is to run from your demons, mushrooms are to face them. Right. And so I don't think it was like the like you the idea of taking mushrooms, like the consensus was you hallucinated everything that happened. I think it was you opened your mind to actually be able to see everything that's going on around you.

SPEAKER_04 34:33

If it's to face your metaphorical demons, then a hallucination still works for that, right? Fair. Like you can still have like a dream sequence so that helps you get over your trauma or whatever. But I think it's confusing. Like, I think they could have done that, and then everything that happened with like I forget the guy's name, but the guy who was like trying to kill him at the end.

SPEAKER_01 34:52

Mal?

SPEAKER_04 34:53

Mal, is that his name? Mal?

SPEAKER_01 34:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 34:55

Like M-A-L Mal.

SPEAKER_01 34:57

Yeah. It's like Mal, Ferg, Fiona.

SPEAKER_04 35:00

But like all the ghost shit. Because then he asks, Did they find the body of Mal? And he and I think they say no. Or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 35:07

Drug into that witch's hellroom.

SPEAKER_04 35:10

But if that was I'm saying if that was a hallucination, maybe he's just down there trapped still. Fair. Getting the scene.

SPEAKER_01 35:15

I mean, because I guess if that hotel did burn down and like kind of collapse on itself, that basement room.

SPEAKER_04 35:20

Because that'd be poetic if he got the same fate that he gave to that girl where he just threw her in the basement to die.

SPEAKER_01 35:24

That would have been better, honestly, than the witch. Here's the thing. I would have been down with thinking it was a scary thing and having it be like actually a like murder mystery. Or I would have been down with it being like a oh, there's actually a witch, and this is fucking wild. But it was like the trying to slap the two together. Yeah. And not connecting them. That was like, why?

SPEAKER_04 35:46

I think that's my problem too. It's like there's a witch in this movie, but for a long time it doesn't really feel that important. And it's not until like at least an hour and 20 minutes in.

SPEAKER_01 35:54

It's not that important though. Even in the climax, it's not the conclusion of the story.

SPEAKER_04 36:00

Yeah. Like I I feel like the filmmaker wanted to have this moment where like he overcome his mom gives him a final message, which if we're really thinking about it, the Black Phone 2 did way better. Um, but his mom is trying to give this like final message to him to get over his trauma, and it helps him like get out of there, right? But like to throw a witch as the obstacle in there, it just seems so random.

SPEAKER_01 36:22

But also, I love that you say it helps him get out of there. But he like he gets up the dump waiter again, he gets out of the fucking hotel room and then back down the the up and down drove me fucking nuts. Uh so he goes back down the elevator and the elevator door is open and there's a fire, so he just like collapses and has to be saved by goat bully who can walk through that. He he can't get through that, but goat bully can.

SPEAKER_04 36:46

Well, I mean, goat bully's not hung over, I guess. I don't fucking know.

SPEAKER_01 36:51

Goat bully hasn't been taking shrooms with a witch all night, I suppose. And drinking whiskey. Yep. Speaking of, I'm gonna be for myself, so nice.

SPEAKER_04 37:00

I don't have any. Um, yeah, I just say it's funny. Like, I really wish we had like a copy that we were watching because I I literally think that every scene you can point out something that's just doesn't make any sense if you think about it. And the whole time I was watching this movie, that's all I could feel. I was like, why this? Why that? This doesn't this is just random. And then after the movie was over, these people behind me were like, that was awesome. And I was like, really? I'm so confused. And how does this have a 98% on Ron Tomay? Like, that's insane.

SPEAKER_00 37:28

It's it's shot well.

SPEAKER_04 37:33

Is it though? Here's my other thing. And I agree that it looks good for like a neon movie, but it made me think about all the horror movies from like the 90s where like they put a very specific art direction in everything. Like if you went to a haunted house, it had a unique look to it, right? It looked like if you watch The Haunting or something, like it, which they I feel like referenced in this movie. Um it had like a very like gothic horror. It was an intentional inspiration of something that they put into this. This just looked like the lighting was really good the whole time.

SPEAKER_01 38:07

Oh, here was one thing that drove me fucking nuts because he mentioned lighting. So I know he has the lantern to help him. So I understand that. But he gets down there and he immediately finds the electrical box and turns the lights on. Fiona, when she's down there, apparently never finds like light.

SPEAKER_04 38:27

That's my whole point. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:28

And it's like, okay, like, sure, you didn't have a lantern, but like also within 20 minutes, your eyes have adjusted.

SPEAKER_04 38:35

Yeah. And there was light coming from other sources down there, by the way. There was like sunlight coming in somehow. Um yeah, that's my point about her being down there, wandering. What she wander around the basement right all, or she just stay in the fucking dumb waiter the whole time.

SPEAKER_01 38:48

I did like though how they like I did like how she was like recording her like message on his like little Yeah, that was cool. Like moments I liked. I liked that. Um and how it started playing back without him playing it, like it would play him warnings after that. I thought that was like a fun, like white noise kind of motif.

SPEAKER_04 39:08

Um I mean that I liked the idea of him like taking that uh alarm clock apart.

SPEAKER_01 39:13

Yes, that was the best, that was the best part of the whole movie.

SPEAKER_04 39:16

But I wish that was more of a moment of him like like putting that together and like all of a sudden it was just done. And it was like, oh, cool idea, but I wish that was a moment.

SPEAKER_01 39:24

Yeah, so when he took the bell off and we're seeing him thinking, I was like thinking like the bell was like gonna be like a a warning or something like the how the other bell had been ringing. Like he'd be down and like the bell would be in his like pocket or something ringing when the witch got closed, and then it was like nope. The golfer's just gonna tap the button and the dumb waiter's gonna work.

SPEAKER_04 39:45

Yeah, I thought it was a cool idea, but then it was like, How are you this behind, dude? I'd be like so paranoid about missing the dumb waiter.

SPEAKER_01 39:53

I would not be getting ever.

SPEAKER_04 39:57

I guess it would come back down. That was a funny moment too when it it did the second chime or whatever and hit the button again and he started to go back down.

SPEAKER_01 40:05

Yes, oh yeah, and he like finally like gets up and he's like relaxed, and then it's like ding. But okay, I was trying to figure this out the whole fucking movie. What was the system of that fucking chime? Because it would be like one ding hitting the hour, then one ding hitting the hour.

SPEAKER_04 40:20

And he also, it was like nine o'clock the whole time.

SPEAKER_01 40:22

He like, yeah, it drove me nuts. I was like, there's no actual time being kept by this fucking thing.

SPEAKER_04 40:27

No, I think the idea was that it was broken or not wind correctly, and he had fixed-that's what I'm saying. I wish that was more of a moment. He had fixed the clock to actually now work on the hour or whatever, so then when he went down, it would be the next hour it would chime again. I don't know. But they didn't really explain that. Like they didn't explain it anything.

SPEAKER_01 40:44

I feel like uh what's what's his name? Damien McGuinty. Is that the writer's name? McCarthy. So I feel like you know, judging by the name, Irish, and I think he wanted to pay homage to like all this like folklore, and I think that's really cool. Um but it just felt like so many moments from maybe like his culture and his history and his like upbringing that he wanted to pull into one thing, and it just didn't have a solid enough through line to like pull it all together.

SPEAKER_04 41:23

I agree. I think in his brain he had a couple of scary moments that he wanted to get to, and so like that's why everything feels like contrived because he he needed a reason to get to that moment, so he worked backwards from that moment, sort of like I agree. I think if he wanted to make a movie about Irish folk folklore, he should have done that, but instead we have these weird scenes of this writer's book that don't even come into play, really. Yeah, like you could those lift right out. I don't even understand.

SPEAKER_01 41:50

Let's talk about the rabbit thing though, in there, the creepy ass rabbit, where when he is hallucinating and he's got the rabbit on the TV talking to him, and he's like Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 41:58

I wrote I wrote down what children's show would have a host this creepy. Well, looks like Donnie Darko and Tim Curry had a baby.

SPEAKER_01 42:06

Oh my god, that is the perfect description. Um, I did read afterwards that the same actor who played the guy he burnt with the spoon, Alfie, was that his name or whatever? Uh-huh. That was the same actor. He played the rabbit. Um but what I was reading is that the uh writer director uses this like rabbit motif in all of his films because he was terrified of water shipped down as a child.

SPEAKER_04 42:30

I mean, that's that's a dark story.

SPEAKER_01 42:32

Yeah. So that rabbit was the creepiest part of the fucking movie.

SPEAKER_04 42:36

I agree.

SPEAKER_01 42:37

And it was really creepy. And then I like really.

SPEAKER_04 42:40

And they jump scared you with a fucking close-up of that. Yeah. You know, you remember those old YouTube videos where you'd be like watching a car drive down the road and then all of a sudden it would just like flash to a scary face. That's exactly what he did in this movie. Yeah. Like they were watching this children's show, and then it went to static or whatever, right? Or something like this, and then he got really close inside, and all of a sudden that face popped up out of nowhere. It's the exact same gag that they've been doing on YouTube since like 2009. Yep. That he just fucking did in this movie. This seems harsh, but it is movie's not great.

SPEAKER_01 43:11

It's funny that it has like as high of a rating as it does.

SPEAKER_04 43:15

Everyone around me was seemed to be loving the movie. And so I I had this moment where I was like, maybe I'm just an old man yelling at the clouds. Like, I just I don't get what young people like anymore or something because everyone else seems to have had a good time.

SPEAKER_01 43:29

But I mean, like it just it felt like it tried to take the best parts of everything it knew and staple them into something new.

SPEAKER_04 43:40

I think we live in a world now where like people don't care if there's like a a uh foreshadowing, they don't care about build up and payoff. They just like want to be distracted every five seconds. So like every every scene just seemed like here's a new kind of like interesting scene with a new scare in it. Where like I'm watching movies, like, I want something to come back. You're giving me this like Thing at the beginning of the movie, I'm going to expect it to come back at the end in some interesting, cool way. Yeah. That's gonna blow my mind. Yeah. But instead it's just random after random event that is happening. And then we have this creepy shot of all these like, I guessed witch victims pulling the chain.

unknown 44:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:18

Who are they? Are they hotel guests?

SPEAKER_04 44:20

Again, why do you Is the witch just like the new popular scary thing now?

SPEAKER_01 44:24

We had zombies, then we had ghosts, now we have to have a good witch.

SPEAKER_04 44:29

Um yeah. What so the the the witch in this movie?

SPEAKER_00 44:36

She was creepy, but who was she and why was she that?

SPEAKER_04 44:39

Like the scene where she's coming up, and it's very much like the ring with her hands coming out of the fucking dumbwaiter and everybody crawling out of it. I uh I did enjoy that segment of the movie.

SPEAKER_01 44:50

I that was the one jump scare that got me where I gave you my physical demonstration before, but obviously we're not videotaping this and no one's gonna see it. Um but when he's sitting in the dumbwaiter in the dark and he's looking because it's like you want to get out of there, but you want to see the witch, and like they built that tension, and then you finally see her. Yeah, that one got me, even though it's like you know she's coming, you're sitting there waiting to see the goddamn witch pop out of the black, but it was like ah fuck.

SPEAKER_04 45:19

Yeah. I also love when he's looking down the shaft and you could see her face just like staring up at him, and then all of a sudden it's crawling up the wall.

SPEAKER_01 45:25

Yeah, I like that it felt like he looked like down like two times, and you'd like think you see her face and you're not sure. And then you think again, but you're not sure, and then you definitely do. But the crawling I think God, good.

SPEAKER_04 45:38

I was gonna say, I think that scene is what he was trying to write too. Like this scene with the witch coming up the the shaft and then attacking him in the room.

SPEAKER_01 45:48

Um, but how weak are witches if all you need is fucking shock and a s in a but also why does she hang out in that little like basement dungeon if she is able to fully access that whole room and get down to the elevator? Like she can come obviously come down the elevator if she could like fuck with the bellhop dude who was standing there.

SPEAKER_04 46:06

Yeah, they don't really explain why she comes when she goes. Yeah. I mean, he was up there for a long time. Did she not realize that? Yeah, was she sleeping and then he came down there and she's like, oh, there's somebody here. I think, yeah. I mean, we could sit here and bash his movie all day. I think it's confusing. Final thoughts are like this is a movie you watch at home when you're got nothing else and you just want to be creeped out. I think put this on, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 46:33

I don't think it's very good, but I think I actually would have enjoyed it better at home if I'd been like lights out sitting on the couch with mummases.

SPEAKER_04 46:42

Well, per your point earlier, like this feels like a movie made for people that could be on their phones while they watched it.

SPEAKER_01 46:48

So mom's urn, dad's urn.

SPEAKER_04 46:52

It's just a bummer that this isn't this is like a dumb horror movie that's been elevated, like that's shot to make you feel like it's another Baba Duke or something that's like more highbrow, but it's not at all. Yeah. And it won't stay with you. Like you watch hereditary and you're like, I'm creeped out for the whole day now. But you watch this, you're like, after five minutes, you're like, I'm gonna go to bed, no problem. Yeah, you know, it doesn't linger.

SPEAKER_01 47:18

No. I I feel it makes me feel sad when I like see these like massively high ratings for films like this, where it's like, are we just like truly like losing what film meant for you and I? Like, not necessarily to the rest of the world, but the reason you and I and people like us love movies and wanted to make movies, is that just gone?

SPEAKER_04 47:42

It feels so good to hear you say this because I feel like I say this to some of my other friends and they're just like, What are you talking about? Movies are crazy, blah, blah, blah. I'm just like, Am I am I crazy? I agree. I think I don't know what's happening in Hollywood. I feel like we're getting a lot of these movies that are just mediocre. Yeah. And but they're being like act, we're acting as if they're the greatest fucking movies ever made. And like, this has a 98% on Ron Tomato. I mean, I'm just taking your word for it. I didn't check that. That's like higher than Shinder's list. Like, what are we doing?

SPEAKER_01 48:10

Yeah. My like, like, I started thinking about that a lot today coming out of it, and my like true like hope of just like kind of the times we're in with like streaming and AI and all this bullshit taking over. I then like read something today that was like, you know, like no matter what with all this taking over, like, nothing can replace the like dramatic experience of like live performance. And I was like, that's true. Like, I think theaters will stay a special place. But my also hope is that like because of what's happening to the industry right now, there'll be like this massive re-emergence of independent filmmaking.

SPEAKER_04 48:49

Yeah, maybe. And you think you think that's a good thing or a bad thing?

SPEAKER_01 48:52

I pr I pray for it. I hope so.

SPEAKER_04 48:54

Okay, yeah. I you know, it's funny. I was I was watching something earlier. Oh, I was watching the F1 race, and I was like scrolling through Apple's interface of just like streaming shit, and it all just looks like stuff you would find that's straight to DVD with these like really bad photoshopped thumbnails and posters for movies I've never heard of. Yeah. But the difference being big actors are the faces I'm seeing on them instead of like back in the day when you get straight to DVD movie, it'd be like some beat list actor that you've never heard of on the cover. But now it's like fucking, you know, Willem Dafoe and shit. And you're like, Why are you making this movie? Do you not care? Like, do you only care about money? And like that's and not I didn't actually see one with Willem Dafoe. I'm just using it.

SPEAKER_01 49:37

No, no, I was like, but I take that back. It's Willem Dafoe.

SPEAKER_04 49:39

But there were some all some actors and actresses where I'm like, Why why are you putting why are you in this movie? Because this is the only work that exists, yeah, and you have no choice. That sucks. Like, you have power to to curate an environment where good movies get made. But I remember hearing stories of like the 90s and the early 2000s of actors then like putting their foot down to want certain filmmakers to be the directors of their movies because they appreciated the art and stuff like that. That's not happening at all anymore. Now it's just like content churn. There's nothing happening, there's no production, so like whatever I can get, I'm gonna get as with the biggest paycheck possible. And it's sad. And my fear is like not to rant too long on this, but like part of me thinks that movies like cinema is dead and like gone way of the radio in a way, and this is like a new thing. Streaming is a new thing. And um if you give if indie since it's so easy to shoot a movie now and to write a movie, all the all the tools that you need to make a movie are cheaper and more accessible. I just mean that we're gonna get flooded with mediocre shit constantly. Yeah. And it's gonna be that much harder to find good shit. And there's whole generations that have been raised on the mediocre shit now that don't even know like what real good movies can look like or or because they never seen them.

SPEAKER_01 51:00

When's the last time that you like walked out of a movie and were like Dune one? What was it?

SPEAKER_04 51:08

Dune one. The first Dune.

SPEAKER_01 51:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 51:10

The first Dune I came out of, I was like, that felt like a real fucking movie. Like that but I couldn't tell you another time that I felt that before that.

SPEAKER_01 51:19

Yeah. So the last time like I came out of a movie being like when we went and saw Joker and came out, and I was like, I haven't had a movie make me feel that horrible in s ever in a really long time. And just like it like fucked me up. Yeah. And that's when it's like people are like, Did you like it? And I was like, No, I fucking hated it. It's a really great movie.

SPEAKER_04 51:46

Yeah, I exactly. I think like a lot of people nowadays they they tend to think like this movie doesn't make me feel good, it's bad.

SPEAKER_02 51:53

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 51:54

And it's like that's not the point. And like I like Joker 2.

SPEAKER_01 51:57

I've only seen it a couple times, but um Joker 2 or you liked Joker also.

SPEAKER_04 52:03

Also, but I haven't seen Joker 2, and apparently that's a hidden gem.

SPEAKER_01 52:06

Ah I wanted it to be. Yeah, it's hard. It's tough.

SPEAKER_04 52:11

Yeah, I do want to watch that at some point, but um can we just cover those on this?

SPEAKER_01 52:15

I think they count. Joker? Joker and Joker 2.

SPEAKER_04 52:18

Yeah, I guess that counts. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:19

Can we do a live stream of your reactions to Joker 2?

SPEAKER_04 52:25

What if I love it?

SPEAKER_01 52:26

Great.

SPEAKER_04 52:27

What if I fucking love it? I don't know. Like, sorry, I'm getting ADD about it, and we should end this episode, but there are movies that still I think like, but again, they're like comic book movies. Like, I liked the last Batman movie a lot. I don't know if you saw that.

SPEAKER_01 52:42

The Matt whatever one, Matt Reeves one.

SPEAKER_04 52:46

Yeah. I really like that movie. I it felt so purposefully like dark and slow.

SPEAKER_01 52:55

It just do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 52:56

Like, I was like, I can't believe they made this movie.

SPEAKER_01 52:59

Well, I've watched my dad play Arkham Asylum, so it felt like I had to watch my dad play Arkham Asylum again. So it's like a like a four-day thing.

SPEAKER_04 53:09

Did you watch him play it again?

SPEAKER_01 53:11

No, it just like that's like the pacing. Oh, I do play it. I just am not as good at it. Like I get frustrated and I never leave the room where you're swinging off the gargoyles and trying to tap the guards.

SPEAKER_04 53:21

Yeah. I get it.

SPEAKER_00 53:23

I'm not a good gamer, Ben.

SPEAKER_04 53:26

Um so I don't know. I think that I don't know. I'm trying to think. I always draw a blank, and that's not a good sign about like when I'm asked, like, what movies recently have really wowed you. Past lives, I really liked a lot. I think of that one a lot.

SPEAKER_01 53:37

I actually didn't see that.

SPEAKER_04 53:39

That's real good. What about but also yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:43

Um the one that just like fucking won everything. Leo. Paul Pia P F P T P P P D.

SPEAKER_04 53:52

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. One bathroom. Paul Thomas Sanderson is that it's got him. Yeah, I really liked that too. But it didn't have an impact like you know, I liked um Licorice Pizza better than I liked that movie, honestly. I didn't actually see that one. I didn't see that one.

SPEAKER_01 54:07

It had um uh an almost famous feeling, which may was funny because it was Philip Seymour Hoffman's kid in it, but it had more of that vibe than I liked it. Yeah. But I also just recently had my mind blown watching the Academy Awards, realizing that Maya Rudolph has been with him forever, and then figuring out that Minnie Ripperton was her mom.

SPEAKER_04 54:29

Yeah. Yeah. I didn't know that part.

SPEAKER_01 54:31

I didn't either, and I was like, shut the fuck up.

SPEAKER_04 54:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:35

But it makes sense.

SPEAKER_04 54:36

I think with One Battle Officer, like even if you don't like that movie as much, like it's like it still feels like it's a movie. A movie. A film. Yeah. And I think when I judge a movie like that, I I'm judging it in that sort of like frame of mind where it's like this is a film and it has a different set of rules than like Doomsday will. And I think that's fine, but I think what's weird about the movie we watched today, the Hokum thing, is like it wants to be the one it wants to be in the film discussion, but it's not at all.

SPEAKER_02 55:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 55:10

It's just another content, it's just another piece of content that is there to cure your boredom instead of make you.

SPEAKER_01 55:16

It's funny, there's not like film and movies anymore. There's a few films, and then there's endless content.

SPEAKER_04 55:24

Yeah, exactly. And once, and not that he's my favorite director or anything, but once Christopher Nolan is gone and done making movies and Tarantino, there are no real directors left. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 55:35

Like, Corsesi will never die.

SPEAKER_04 55:38

Yeah, right. He's on ice right now. You know what?

SPEAKER_01 55:40

You know who I think could actually potentially take over and be decent?

SPEAKER_04 55:43

Who?

SPEAKER_01 55:44

And I'm not kidding, so don't laugh when I say this. Damian McCarthy. Seth Rogan. I think he is trying to truly care about film and preserve it in his own way.

SPEAKER_04 55:54

I agree. I think that he has at least the he can recognize what's quality as far as film. Like he has an appreciation of real film that I agree, but he also seems very dismissive of the idea that film is dying in any interview where he's asked that question.

SPEAKER_02 56:10

I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 56:10

He's always just like, oh, I don't know. There's always been times in Hollywood where this is the end and it's never is. And I'm like, you're not worried enough. You are not worried, you're too rich.

SPEAKER_01 56:20

I mean, that's because he's able to make the studio right now, which actually feels like filmmaking.

SPEAKER_04 56:24

Exactly, yeah. I don't know, maybe we'll see. I also think that like in the 60s, Hollywood was like this too, where it was like everything was just genre movie of like B movie, of just like beach party and blah blah blah, and like surfs up and stuff like that. And then eventually like Godfather came out and and Brian De Palma made movies. You know what I mean? Like there was like a renaissance of film that happened because I think Hollywood became like such a shallow, superficial output machine.

SPEAKER_01 56:52

And then I do from that perspective get what he's saying too, where it's like, okay, like when Talkies came out and it was no longer silent, like that was the end. And then I get that. And like the 80s was a shit ton of garbage.

SPEAKER_04 57:06

Yeah, but also I love the 80s. There's great movies in the 80s. Yeah. People always say that, but I'm like, some of my favorite movies came out of the 80s. Like, I don't I don't really understand. I know Tarantino has said that recently too, where it's like, that was the worst time in Hollywood. I'm like, no, it wasn't. You're insane. I don't think it's the worst time in Hollywood.

SPEAKER_01 57:23

I think it's the worst period of horror for a lot of it. Not all of it, but a lot of it. Um but I think I would have loved to have been able to be a a writer in the 80s because nothing had to make sense.

SPEAKER_04 57:39

Yeah, just take a bunch of cocaine.

SPEAKER_01 57:41

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 57:42

I don't know. I have a weird like the 80s to me, like even the horror movies, like the thing, my you know, the thing came out. Oh, there we go. That's all I can think of. Well, not really, not technically. It was the second one. It was a remake. Um I don't know. That's where all the John John Carpenter movies came out. It was in the 80s. James Cameron movies came out in the 80s.

SPEAKER_01 58:04

James Cameron was a good filmmaker in the 80s.

SPEAKER_04 58:07

Like Steven Spielberg was in his prime in the 80s. Like obviously Star Wars was happening.

SPEAKER_01 58:13

Um, I mean Goonies. Goonies you can't beat.

SPEAKER_04 58:16

Coastbusters. Come on, there was so much shit in the 80s that was good. Back to the Future. You know? Anyway, we should wrap this up. Well, that, yeah, so final thoughts. This movie sucks.

SPEAKER_01 58:33

I don't here's I I don't want to dump on this movie.

SPEAKER_04 58:36

You're part of the problem. You're part of the problem, then. This movie's bad.

SPEAKER_01 58:40

I liked Jerry. I liked the way it was shot. I like Jerry, but it did not, it was three different stories slapped together that didn't come together. And um typically when I watch a movie, I can be like, oh, I think probably there was a really good script, and I can see where production might have interfered here, we might have lost scenes there, or like character development there. This one, I watched it and I was like, I think probably the script was weak when they started making this film.

SPEAKER_04 59:09

Yeah. And that's not true. To me too, I think it's one of those situations where like I kind of wish that it wasn't a writer-director thing. I I wish there was an editor on this or an overbearing producer who could have maybe focused this vision a little bit more. Yeah. Because I just think it's so uneven, it's so contrived, and I think you're right, there's too many subplots and too many non-sensical things happening. So much so that I don't even think the title makes sense for this movie.

SPEAKER_01 59:40

I mean, I'd call the movie a bunch of hocum.

SPEAKER_04 59:43

The movie, yeah. In that case, it's spot on with what it was.

SPEAKER_01 59:49

Anyway, we're gonna throw a bunch of bullshit together.

SPEAKER_04 59:52

And you're gonna think it's art.

SPEAKER_01 59:54

Yep. The Rotten Tomatoes rating is a bunch of hocum.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:00

That is the truth. Even the Metacritic thing, the black phone two is way better than this. I don't hear what anyone says.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:05

No, I would agree.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:06

I mean, obviously, the first one is people I think universally love that first one, but uh the second one I would say is better than this.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:12

I would agree with that.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:12

Yeah, anyway. Well, that's it for this week on Slasher Bash. Until next time, I don't know. What do we say?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:19

Keep on slashing and bashing.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:22

Keep bashing the slashing. I don't know. Bye.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:26

Peace out, Cub Scout.