Special Guest: Joey Bicicchi - Writer/Director of Woozy

This week on Slasher Bash, Maddi and Ben welcome Writer/Director Joey Bicicchi to talk about his upcoming psychological horror film, Woozy, starring Emile Hirsch.  

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:26

What's up, everybody, and welcome to Slash Bash, the podcast, podcast where we take a horror movie franchise and break it down movie by movie. I'm one of your hosts, Benjamin. I'm here with my co-host, Madison, and we have a very special guest this week that we're gonna cut to. I don't know how I'll edit this, but we're gonna either slice something in right now and cut to it later. This is great. This is it. All right, awesome. Uh Mary, do you want to enter or introduce our special guests?

SPEAKER_00 0:58

Today is a very big day on Slasher Bash. We're very excited to have our first guest, writer-director Joey Bachiki, whose first official film as a writer-director, right?

SPEAKER_05 1:09

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

That's correct. Yep. Woozy. Um officially is premiering uh LA Film Fest May 16th. You can still buy tickets. It's uh downtown at the Regal Cinema on Olympic. And Joey is here today to talk to us about his film. And we are fucking psyched. Welcome, Joey. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:29

I'm fucking psyched to be here. Uh, this is great. Um, thank you. Shout out, uh, Victoria, um, who plays uh the character Rush and Woozy for connecting us. Uh wonderful actress. Um, I'm excited to be here. Yes, we are very excited to have you.

SPEAKER_02 1:46

Well, we gotta start. We gotta ask you about just horror in general, since we are a horror movie podcast, or horror, not just movies, horror all things podcast. Do you, since you're making a horror movie, do you I'm assuming you have like a a love for horror? Is this something that you have a love for, you're a fan of, or is this like a new sort of experiment for you?

SPEAKER_01 2:08

I think it's kind of it's kind of a hybrid, I would say. Um, my first my first horror film that I ever remember is and I think a lot of kids have is The Exorcist. I have an older brother, we were watching it, and I was like, what is that? That's awesome. Don't ever need to see it again. Yeah. Um and then um I remember my mom renting Scream, and I had to be like in second or third grade, and like dad was out of town or whatever, and we just sat and we watched the whole movie, and the whole time my mom's like, you should not be watching this movie.

SPEAKER_04 2:47

How old were you?

SPEAKER_01 2:48

But we were just second grade. I had to be, it was like nine, I was like 96, I think, or 95, or 97. Um, and I just remember having this thought, like, whoa, that could happen. Um, and it freaked me out.

SPEAKER_05 3:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

And then we when we were growing up, me and my friends would play games. Like, if you were home alone, you'd watch Scream by Yourself, and if you can make it through, like you were a champion. I love that. Um and that always stuck with me. And uh I love Matthew Lillard, yeah. I think he's a great actor, and he's a big part of my childhood, like all those teen movies. And also, oh yeah, SLC Punk is amazing.

SPEAKER_02 3:34

Wing Commander. Let's not forget that one.

SPEAKER_01 3:37

Do you guys know that one? I remember I remember getting that at like Blockbuster with my brother. Like, oh, we put it in the like. But he's like, the thing is, is like he's one of those actors that no matter what he's in, I'm just I'm glued. Yeah. He and what I love about him now is I think he was saying that he only gets cast in things because people have like nostalgia for him. Um, but I just think he's a really good actor, and I didn't even know he's a professor. Uh, he teaches acting class and everything. Um, so getting to hear him tell those stories, and I I and really that was my connection to the scream movies when I was younger, which why the name of the movie is Woozy. Yep. Well, we were gonna ask you about that.

SPEAKER_02 4:24

Yeah. Since we started as a screen podcast, we were like, this is this is very coincidental.

SPEAKER_00 4:29

Immediately it was like, that's gotta be intentional, right?

SPEAKER_01 4:33

It's in it's intentional, and like this movie doesn't even Woozy, my film doesn't really live in the same universe as that, but it was really the catalyst of why I got intrigued with this type of genre. Um and it was just weird because I would really say this is like vomit horror in a way.

SPEAKER_00 4:57

Did you say vomit horror? I will say I don't know what we're allowed to say or not say about the trailer, so we can cut anything you want us to, but judging from the trailer, it does look like vomit horror.

SPEAKER_05 5:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 5:08

When you okay, when you say vomit horror, are we talking like Sam Raimi like vomit horror? Or like what do you mean?

SPEAKER_01 5:16

Some of them, yes. I would say there's certain uh projectile scenes, and then some of them are just normal. It's kind of the way um Dusty, who's played by Abil Hirsch's character, kind of my take is how he's experiencing it. Is this like thing that he remembers is real, or is this something he's hyperbolically like projecting? And that's why I like it, it's it's a funny one because it's almost like horror adjacent, the film, where it is very uncomfortable. Like the idea is there's a few jump scares, it can be scary, but at the end of the day, it's wonderfully weird and odd, but it's uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_04 6:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:05

The thing that I saw in the trailer that encompassed all of those things was Woozy licking the back of Emile's neck. I was so grossed out. It was like, ooh.

SPEAKER_01 6:17

Well, I I'll I'll tell you this anecdote of we were doing that scene and we're just shooting it. And the gentleman who plays Woozy, a fantastic actor, Jeff Adler, and we'll get into cast later, but he does like a take, and I was like, are we gonna lick him or are we gonna lick him? Like, let's full tongue lick him. Like, come on, bro.

SPEAKER_02 6:43

It's it's on the page.

SPEAKER_01 6:45

I was like, make them squirm, make the people squirm. And he did it, and to like Emile's credit, uh, Emile just like took it, Jeff took it, and uh after cut, I think they're very happy to be done with that show.

SPEAKER_02 7:02

I think that bonded them a little. You know, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:07

I mean Well, now that now that we're giving the listeners like a little taste of what this is, like should we back up for a quick second and you can kind of give us a quick you know, we've read it's kind of like somebody who's dealing with mental health issues and projections, which you've kind of mentioned, and um maybe unhealthy coping skills.

SPEAKER_01 7:29

Yeah, that's in um I would say that's in the synopsis of the film, where it in this world that Emil's character is dealing with is he has a lot of things that are wrong with him, and he's trying to work through them and figure them out, and in doing so, he does things like yoga, and he's um you know, a vegan, and he boxes, and he just tries to take care of himself. His cleaning lady comes every day, he likes very clean places by doing those things. He believes it will truncate the dark thoughts that he has, and or realizing his biggest fear of woozy in front of him. But unfortunately, that's just like not uh a real way to deal with it, so it catches up with him in in a way that the way it's set up is he's you're the audience is questioning the way Emile's questioning, because he's like, No, but I I did that, you know, I I figured it out. But this is gonna segue into things that were um inspirations. I thought a lot of the movie shame when I wrote this movie. Uh the Michael Fassbender movie.

SPEAKER_04 8:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:55

And to me, that was a horror film.

SPEAKER_04 8:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:58

Um, if anyone's listening doesn't know, is essentially Michael Fassbender plays a sex addict and he kind of lives with this horror by himself and he doesn't say anything, he doesn't talk to anyone, and he can't really connect. And I was like, wow, that really that that interests me because that's kind of how I felt with some of my stuff growing up. Where I can't really talk about what's going on, I can't really or or I didn't have the tools to talk about what was going on. Or if someone tried to talk to me about I just shut it down.

SPEAKER_00 9:30

So then would you say that this film is like a very like personal, like close to the heart project in that way?

SPEAKER_01 9:37

I would I would say that it just it strokes from my life in terms, and I'm gonna use the term again hyperbolically, but just the um and just listening to people's stories, and then in some way this will sound odd, like make it fun and like to watch and entertaining, and that's why like for me, these things in my head were always a mind, right? Because I was like, Alright, there's these issues going on, but they're not saying anything, they're just looking at me and they're moving, and I'm just like, all right, leave me alone, go away, but I just until over time I figured out how to to do it um in a setting that was comfortable for me and just had the knowledge and people to help me, then it was good. Yeah, but growing up, that's how it felt. This is how the movie felt, and that was my segue into this character. I was like, oh, I I think I know how to make this into a film that can be entertaining, that asks questions, that but here's the genius of Emile. And I know we'll talk about casting, but I'm gonna throw this in there is that this film could be very depressing and not fun at all. And why I love a meal is he really could find the humor in this is bonkers, bro. And it's okay to laugh at it, and it's okay to be like unsure and uncomfortable, and then the parts where like it is sad, it's it can't help but like, oh, that's kind of sad.

SPEAKER_02 11:22

Are you talking about like the way he's the way the scenes are played, or are you talking about an like the audience will feel like this is a funny, this is humorous in certain moments?

SPEAKER_01 11:32

It's probably both, where I think some of like I was talking to Emil the other day of we get some uncomfortable laugh laughter in this, and then I think you get some real laughter of like, oh, that's funny.

SPEAKER_04 11:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

But I I do believe that like the way he went about playing Dusty helped elevate the text in a way that could have ultimately been a little too depressing.

SPEAKER_02 11:59

Yeah. Was that your intention? Was were you trying to make something a little bit to have like that sort of relief in the movie throughout, or when you were originally writing it?

SPEAKER_01 12:10

Do you want the full story of it? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 12:12

Yeah, I would love it, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:14

Okay, so the gentleman that plays uh Woozy, Jeff Adler. Yes. That guy to me is Ethan Hawke. He's Ethan Hawk, he's the man. The way he speaks about acting is so eloquent, he's on fire, he's you know, he's great. He was in the new um Springsteen movie, he's in the new James Ray Paper Tiger movie, he's just one of those guys. Like he's an actor's actor and can talk circles around anybody and everyone, or just be involved in the conversation. And it's like passion is bleed like bleeding out of him. So I met Jeff through a great actor named Emory Cohen on a film I was doing with a Mio called Vincent Oroxy like 12 years ago.

SPEAKER_03 13:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 13:00

I did this movie, became friends with Emory, but Emory, one of Emory's childhood best friends is Jeff Atlant. And real quick, just to back up.

SPEAKER_00 13:08

You acted in that film, right? Like everything I played one of the villains. All like the whole spectrum. You've acted, written, directed, now editing also. Just want to throw that in there. You're a very creative man.

SPEAKER_01 13:24

I try my best. I'm always giving it the old college try. So I I Emery set me and Jeff up. We were talking, and like very quickly, I was like, I love Jeff. We're gonna be really, we're gonna be best friends. And then shortly, Jeff was like, You're moving into my house. And in that, he was like, one thing. Uh I'll give you a little discount on rent if you write a movie for me. I was like, okay.

SPEAKER_00 13:52

That's a Hollywood story I haven't heard, to be honest.

SPEAKER_02 13:56

Like, how big's the discount? Like, what are we talking about?

SPEAKER_00 13:59

Do I have to pay you? God bless Jeff.

SPEAKER_01 14:01

When the movie gets made, it was good.

SPEAKER_03 14:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:04

Um, so and moving in there and um working on things, can't get it going. Um, acting in different things, editing different things. During this time, Jeff moves back to New York with his wife, and he kept this place in LA. He's like, still live there, right? I'll be back and forth. Kind of years go by, and I want to say August of August of 2018.

unknown 14:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 14:38

I was like, okay, I have a a draft.

SPEAKER_05 14:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:41

And I send it, and it's not very good. But we were like, the bones are there, the character is there. Let's figure this out. And then COVID happens, and then probably around March 2021, I s I send him the next draft, and he goes, Oh yeah. Nice, we're on the right track. And then from there we just tweaked and I went and had a shoot another movie. And I go uh to this party and this guy um his name is um Karen Sagu. He's a friend. Uh he's an EP on the movie. He's like, hey, I have this guy named Lilit Batiari. He's looking to make uh horror films in the in the US. He saw a film I was in. Do you want to read some? I said, okay. I read them, they weren't really for me. I asked Karin, I'm like, do you mind if I I was like, I'll have the script. Do you mind if I send it to him?

SPEAKER_04 15:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:47

Send it to him. Six months goes by. He's like, okay, yeah, I'm in. We're gonna do it. Nice. I bring in my buddy Keith Carvel, who's producer and he owns Unified Pictures.

SPEAKER_04 16:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 16:01

He's producing like $40 million movies with like Sam Jackson at the time, and he's like, I love you. I'm gonna come in and do it. Um, let's figure this out. We get the ball rolling, we get casting, a cat a casting director named Jessica Sherman. Okay. I love her. She just did Predator.

SPEAKER_05 16:20

Oh, nice.

SPEAKER_01 16:21

Um, shout out to one of my favorite actors, Owen Mackin. He hooked us up. He needs he needs that shout out. I love I love you, Owen. We'll keep going. We're gonna tag everybody in this interview. Yeah, Owen's the Owen's the man. And so I meet with Jessica, have a great conversation, and then of course, like the writer strike happens, and uh the sag happens. But originally that role for Dusty was written for Jeff, and I was gonna be losy. Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 16:54

Okay, that's a funny little twist that I didn't expect.

SPEAKER_01 16:57

And so, yeah, so what happened? Yeah, so then I get Jessica involved, and as they're talking about numbers for the movie, they're like, you know, we need a we need a an actor's name. And then I'm like, man, this is a tough conversation to have. Yeah. Uh with Jeff, because the whole point of this is to make, you know, you're living in his place. Yeah. So, you know, and Jeff is just he's just the most honest, like, loyal dude ever. And you know, right away he's like, I do not want to get in the way of you making this movie. That's awesome. You gotta, you gotta do what you gotta do. I was like, Wow, okay. But it was in that moment that I knew I was going to get Jeff to play Woosy.

SPEAKER_00 17:50

So this is interesting though, because one of the questions that I was like thinking about that I really wanted to ask you is like when in this process as like a first-time like director where you're like, this is really gonna happen, and how fucking cool is that that they actually come back to you and they say, We're gonna make this movie, we need to put bigger people in the movie. Like that, I gotta assume feels like a oh, they want to do this and they want to like do it legit.

SPEAKER_02 18:15

I guess it's sort of it comes with good and the bad, huh?

SPEAKER_01 18:17

Yeah, it comes with the good, like I think in that moment I'm like, Yes, but then I'm like, fuck. There's some chess I have to do.

SPEAKER_04 18:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:28

But even when things shift and they're hard conversations, I'm like, you just have to be honest, you know? And there's a bunch of things that are happening that I I'm not a fan of, but I just have to adapt. And and it's very hard to do on the go. And I think it's a forever thing that you're that you're learning in in life or filmmaking in general. So in the practice of this, it was just okay, we went down the road of trying to find cast, but during COVID, I remember I was just went over to my buddies to swim, and a mule was there. And I hadn't seen a meal in years, and I might had you known each other already. We had known each other from the past uh film, and I just remember my thought was man, he'd just be so he'd be perfect as dusty, yeah. And and I just remember thinking that, and when we were going to cast, that was the first person that I had to go through some other names, but my eye was always on Emile because I just felt he would just understand what I was trying to do.

SPEAKER_04 19:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:43

So when you were swimming, did you like actually like pitch him the project, or was it just like a moment?

SPEAKER_01 19:51

I was like, I'm just writing stuff, and then that's when I was thinking it, and I did tell him later. I remember when we had that conversation, I was like, This is what I was writing. He's like, Oh, that's rad, man.

SPEAKER_04 20:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:03

So when so when you approached Emile then with this, had you already told told Jeff about him maybe playing easy?

SPEAKER_01 20:10

Yeah, oh no. Oh, you didn't? Okay. I told him I had some ideas. Okay, I had some ideas. Um, and so after I think I now forgive me, I think it was like two meetings with Emil, maybe it was one, I don't remember. But it was fairly quick. He's like, I'm in. Let's do it. Cool. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

What made you um because if you wrote Woozy for you to play Woozy, when was the moment for you that you were like, you know what? I'm gonna step out of this and take on the other side.

SPEAKER_01 20:44

Honestly, it was when I knew he could like right away. I knew it was when they said not that they said he couldn't play Dusty, it was just like you have to get a name for Dusty. I was looking at, I go, okay, there's a lot of people involved, time and money. Not to mention I was doing the math in my head, hours in the chair and makeup, doing my takes, watching that, and I go, it would be a disservice to this movie and everyone's time if I do this. And I don't have the days. Like, I'm not a good enough director. I know in this moment, I'm not a good enough director to direct someone to play Woozy. It's a very hard thing to direct. But I do have an actor that I know can pull it off that has been in my head with this for six years.

SPEAKER_02 21:34

Yeah, and you got and you've obviously shown him other drafts of the of the other drafts.

SPEAKER_01 21:39

He heard about the movement, uh, what we're after. So we get a meal, and then it's it's almost like you you gotta s you you gotta squeeze it out where you gotta build the cast, and then it's like Jeff's doing this.

SPEAKER_04 21:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:58

We didn't read for Emil's character. But these other girls that came in and read, um, there's two main girls, uh Hopper and Gloria. Hopper's like his best friend, Yogi girl, and then Gloria's. I don't want to give too much away, but Gloria's this other girl in female in the film. So Jackie Cruz plays Gloria, and Jackie Cruz was the very first tape I saw for Hopper.

SPEAKER_04 22:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 22:24

And Hopper's like, you know, number two on the call. She, Gloria is number three. And it just was like in my head, I was like, You are Gloria. I know that already. I need to figure this out because I know the producers are gonna want me to pick Jackie for Hopper. But then I I get this tape from Penelope Mitchell, who plays Hopper, and I'm like aesthetically, and just like who she was, I was like, this is it, guys. This is who this is, this is this person. My job is done.

SPEAKER_04 23:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:02

As a director. Like, I just and it the best part about it was there was like a note where like she just feels like a little uh stiff or something, and it was like her second callback live, and she spoke during notes, and I realized that she was Australian and she was doing a US accent. I go, oh no, just I said talk Australian, I don't care. She's like, Oh, I can use my accent. I go, please, I would I it would be awesome. And so it was just like I'm you know, still in my bones. If she used the American accent, I'm I still don't have a different answer. That's who it is. She'll come to set, she'll be more relaxed. But that was just like the the turn of the key where everyone was like, oh, 100%, that's it. She's she's hopper, let's go.

SPEAKER_04 23:55

Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_01 23:57

And then the next thing was just getting Jackie on to do Gloria, which she was just I was super excited researching and seeing that.

SPEAKER_00 24:06

Oh, Jackie. I mean, oh shit, orange is the fucking.

SPEAKER_01 24:10

This isn't just about Jackie, but like all these cast members were just ready to play, like they were just ready to roll in the dirt and go. And and Jackie, you know, I will say at some point in this movie, there's a uh uh a dance sequence that's very important to her character in the story, and you know, Jackie gets on her uh Zoom and she's telling me she has all this background in dancing and all this. And I don't know if I 100% believed her.

SPEAKER_02 24:44

I was gonna say everyone says that on the resume, right?

SPEAKER_01 24:47

Right, but I I I just had this thought, and I told her, because she didn't have a dancing big background, was that there's no way Jackie's gonna let herself down. So, whatever this is, she's gonna figure it out. She and she did, she got her own choreographer. Oh, cool, and she was on another movie, and when she was done, she sent me tapes every day, and that's how we did it. Nice, and then by the end, we gotta cast Woozy.

SPEAKER_02 25:17

Well, I was gonna say that no one's like pressuring you on Woozy, like the the you know yo, it just because it is just so it just was it was just beautiful, lit up, and then it's like having to convince Jeff.

SPEAKER_04 25:33

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01 25:34

Because he's like, What? Uh you just had like this mantra just go in without any fear, man. There's no wrong answers or moves. Let's go. He was in movement class like six hours later. Wow. Just it's all movement. He's sending me tapes all day, every day, working on like anything and everything.

SPEAKER_02 25:54

That's that's great.

SPEAKER_00 25:55

I have to imagine if Woozie's a mime, that actually required a lot of like like deep diving into it.

SPEAKER_01 26:01

Yeah, it's it's funny because what do I say? Is it spoiler territory? It's very it's very it's a it's it's a very tricky role to play, and that's why I was like, I don't think I'm a good enough director yet to do this. I just need someone that has a whole heart understanding, and when I would need them to do very weird things, yeah, they know where it's coming from.

SPEAKER_04 26:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:29

Because I don't know if I have the proper vocabulary to say it. I can show you in action, but him just like being my brother uh and very good at his job, he just understands where it's coming from.

SPEAKER_00 26:40

I was gonna say, twice now. I've heard you say, like, I don't think I'm a strong enough director to do this, but you obviously ended up directing this film you wrote. Like, what made you be like, no, I actually can fucking do this?

SPEAKER_01 26:53

Or are you still like I'm just saying specifically to directing the character of Woozy specifically, so not the whole film.

SPEAKER_00 27:02

Woozy is a complicated character.

SPEAKER_01 27:04

No, no, just being able to like give the direction of because I I think when I was writing, I was just like, oh yeah, I'm just gonna do this, I'm gonna do that, this is great, cool.

SPEAKER_00 27:16

So you really wrote Woozy with yourself in mind playing the role and already had kind of like comfort in playing that character?

SPEAKER_01 27:24

Yeah, because I think in the start we're like, sure, we'll figure we'll find 30,000 and we'll make this movie. That's really yeah, you know, we're just gonna make it, you know? Yeah, and so as it as it grew, but but the idea was is that we really don't change the bones of how we were gonna make that movie. Like the movie's all from the level of Emile. Like, we're not bringing in drones or it's all from the point of view of it, it's all at his eye level.

SPEAKER_04 27:55

Very cool.

SPEAKER_01 27:56

Um, or where he's coming from because it needed to feel claustrophobic to me that way. Yeah. It needed it needed to feel personal, and this is his experience. So, yeah, that's what I mean. It's just like directing the actual film, I just really couldn't wait to do it because I had so many ideas, and everything was storyboard in terms of because I was so scheduled, yeah, uh, and we had a go, go, go, um, and I was editing it. So the storyboards as I'm shooting, I was like, Oh, I don't need that, I don't need this. I'm just gonna edit as I go.

SPEAKER_00 28:29

So when you wrote the script, then you weren't like figuring out shooting, you wrote the script, then figured out the storyboards afterwards, or was it a little bit of both?

SPEAKER_01 28:39

A little bit of both, but I literally am writing for the edit. Like I'm just writing as I see the move as it edited, and then I kind of go to how I want to shoot it and like how I would edit the pictures together. Because I've spent a lot of time editing, so it it I just as I'm writing, I just am always seeing it in on a timeline and thinking of transitions, constantly thinking of transitions, whether it's audio or visual. That that's kind of like the fun, because that's when you're alone and you're in the sandbox by yourself, and then it kind of gets that way in the editing room again. But like, you know what I'm saying, is like when sometimes I'll just be editing and I have this footage and I see a meal, and I just think about like I was cleaning the feeder when you were uh you know in Speed Racer, so I just get like this is so cool.

SPEAKER_02 29:33

That's gotta be surreal, right?

SPEAKER_01 29:35

I remember watching Jackie and Orange is the new black, you know. Uh my wife is freaking out because Penelope was on like some vampire show when she was growing up, you know. Like that's just kind of that's the fun part about it all. And then also, like, I'm watching Jeff. Like, I get this like no one would ever cast Jeff for this movie because it would be hard to use your imagination to see that. But now it's like we're gonna let the world see that, and then someone might be casting something and be like, yeah, that's the guy for this very bizarre villain that we didn't think.

SPEAKER_02 30:14

You were talking, so you're talking about I don't know how much we can say about like the entity in this movie being a mind, and I'll cut that out if you want me to. But there's a lot of movement involved, right? Like, where are you like how are you are you imagining that when you're writing like what these movements are? Are you very specific about it? Are you are you letting Jeff sort of like interpret and move the way he wants to move?

SPEAKER_01 30:37

Yeah, I think that like that's okay. So he's like half mime, half cat, and a and and a man. And the whole point would be like when you're looking at him, like, what is that a man? Is it a cat? It's unsettling me. But it's so easy to be like scary. This is all scary, this is gonna be scary. Where Jeff was like, yeah, there's times where he's scary, and like there's just nothing but like the action in the script of like, yes, if you think about it, that's terrifying. But there's moments where like let him be a cat. Like, let it be funny how a cat is. I think all like here's the thing is all the action, most of the most of the actions that Jeff had done were written, but that's what makes a good actor. He's like, how do I make this action something that it's that it's not? He's looking at it from a different lens, where I'm saying, like, Emile saw the movie from a less depressing lens than when I was writing it. And then Jeff is kind of doing that with like, he doesn't need to be this scary villain all all the time. Almost like Pennywise, where Pennywise isn't scary all the time. This guy's a little more human, I would say, but there's just a different way in. And as you're watching it live, there's like many times or like a costumer or something. I just really listened to the reactions. I was like, oh, that scene was actually sadder than I thought.

SPEAKER_02 32:10

Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_01 32:11

Or that's funnier than I thought.

SPEAKER_02 32:14

Is that a good thing for you to hear?

SPEAKER_01 32:16

I think it's I honestly I think it's a great thing because you're just you're actually getting a human reaction.

SPEAKER_02 32:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:26

You know, if you're getting nothing, I I think it's a problem.

SPEAKER_02 32:29

Yeah, but you don't, but what if you're getting the reaction you don't necessarily want? Like, oh, this is sadder than I intended, it but you're happy about that.

SPEAKER_01 32:36

Oh, that just comes in an adjustment, you know. But most of the time I just kind of enjoyed it, where I'm like, Yeah, I'm listening, I I I'm you have to, you know, for me, you have to be guided by the talents in front of you as well as your own, right? So all these people are there for a reason, and they all have really good suggestions. So I have to be open to all of it. Yeah, there are times when you're really stern, but they're all really smart people. Because there'll be times where like Emile will say something, and I'm I'm aware he's been directed by Tarantino, I'm aware that he's been directed by Sean Penn or the Worchowski sisters. Like you have to give respect to, yeah, he stood in places that I haven't, and maybe I should listen now. Because he's always listening to me.

SPEAKER_00 33:32

I should give him the space to say something.

SPEAKER_04 33:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:37

So knowing that you wrote Woozy with the intention to play him and then seeing what Jeff did, how different is the character from how you were gonna play it in turn and how the character actually turned out?

SPEAKER_01 33:50

I think it's a far better rendition. But it's different. Yeah, it's different. It's different in some senses. But what I love is that Emile and Jeff, it's weird, almost look like each other on screen in the same way.

SPEAKER_02 34:11

Honestly, when I was watching the trailer, I thought it might be him. I was like, I can't really tell. Is that is that Emile?

SPEAKER_01 34:17

And it's a mirror of him, and so like I fell so in love with it, and I just kind of was like, Yeah, like I could lose so much weight and be very thin and skinny and move and whatever. And at some point I just completely I think the idea of whatever I was gonna do left my brain as soon as Jeff entered it because it wasn't mine anymore. Yeah, and maybe at times were, but I just kind of really enjoy his interpretation, yeah. You know, and and again, how Emile found the lightness in some of this darkness, Jeff kind of did the same. He gave he somehow gave Woozie this empathy that you're like, whoa, this is this is great. And and I don't know if I was acting and directing that I could have saw it at that time. Where's that?

SPEAKER_02 35:09

You noticed once you were editing the film. Is that what you mean?

SPEAKER_01 35:12

Or is it like I mean, even Jeff would say it, let's Jeff would say things live when I, you know, sometimes I would talk through action with him, or there'll be something happening, and I'll and I'll talk through the action and just the way he was, and Jeff, Jeff would be like, Oh man, that was like seeing something happen to a really good friend, and Woozy and Dusty are essentially friends, but it's just a incompatible relationship. Like it's it's not it's very toxic. Yeah. Um, so seeing that tug and pull live was better than I could anticipate, you know.

SPEAKER_02 35:49

For sure.

SPEAKER_01 35:50

But it's just it's just cool seeing people get that stuff on uh up on it on the legs, you know.

SPEAKER_02 35:55

Yeah. What so what was Amil's like uh initial reaction to the screw? Um you made it sound like you very quickly agreed wanted to do it, but what what and maybe you can't speak for him, and that's fine too.

SPEAKER_01 36:07

But no, I I don't want to speak for him. I think it just curiosity, you know. I also think that like he hadn't worked in a while, and maybe it in because of the strikes, and maybe this was just the right challenge at the right time. Yeah. Um, but he showed up and and he, you know, he had a question that I tell him, and because you're shooting out of order, it's complicated script. And he showed up every day and worked his butt off.

SPEAKER_03 36:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:36

The only complaint I ever got was, do I have to put more of that vomit on me? Does he have to lick my neck again? He was like totally cool with all of it, and you know, the cast really, you know, most of this takes place in a house, and everybody is in close quarters and they all got along really well. And yeah, I really felt supported that they knew that I was after something, they could feel that I was after something. Whether they all knew exactly where we were going, I I I truly knew, like all the way up until the end of the edit, like I just knew where we were going.

SPEAKER_04 37:15

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:17

And part of that is having my friend Gary on the ground, who I've known since I've been 16, but also the first short I ever was in, uh Armando Balansteros DP'd it, he's a graduate of AFI, he shot the movie, and it was like just having like a guardian angel on your shoulder doing this. That's awesome, you know? And he's a you know, he's a great gaffer, and uh DP is like getting two for one. Um and it just was it just felt like they were really trusting the roadmap to a complicated story, and and that's kind of like the thing, it's like it's a complicated story only because the main character believes it's complicated. But at the core, it's very simple. It's very simple what's happening.

SPEAKER_02 38:09

Well, I was gonna I wanted to kind of go back to that too, because we kind of briefly talked about it. I know you want to give away.

SPEAKER_01 38:14

I know I told you I'm gonna I'm gonna ping it. No, no, it's all good. Wait, wait, before I I I do want to say, can I tell you the my Vicky story? Yes, yes, please. Please. Because we're here because of Vicky. V Millet or Victoria, I need to call her to call her Victoria.

SPEAKER_00 38:34

I know I keep wanting to call her V Millet, and I'm like, nobody's gonna look that up on IMDB. So Victoria Millet.

SPEAKER_01 38:40

Victoria Millet. Okay, so I finished probably my March draft 2021, and I was having people over at my house, Jeff's house, and I had this neighbor that lived in the backyard, and we're like smoking partners. Her window like looked down to mine, and we're talking back and forth all the time. And when I was like, hey, come over, let's have a party. And she goes, Do you mind if I bring my roommate? Oh, come on over. So I'm upstairs. Was it Tyler?

SPEAKER_02 39:19

No, it's Victoria.

SPEAKER_00 39:20

Oh, yeah. So I I was thinking Victoria was a smoking partner. Was Tyler the smoking partner? Gotcha.

SPEAKER_01 39:27

No, no, the smoking partner um uh is uh Leah Mason. She's a great uh uh musician. She goes by the name Mink. She's amazing. Um and so I come downstairs, and I just see Victoria standing in my kitchen, and I'm like, holy shit, that person's rush. That person's gonna play rush. I have no clue if that person's an actor, just her essence and how she's standing there, and also like I can just tell already she photographs so well, and just like the way she was just standing. I was like, I feel welcome, but I'm terrified because she's so strong, you know. And I just gave her the script, we had a coffee, and I said, Whenever I make this movie, you are going to play this role if you want to. Yeah, she's like, Hell yeah, of course. And then, you know, casting gets involved, and I gotta look at all these tapes, and I was straight up with Victoria, and I told her what the deal was. We couldn't find this character of Rush. And I said, Can we now read who I want to read? And Jessica Sherman, like, after the first thing, she's like, Yeah, that's it. Let's get her on a plane. She's coming here. And she showed up and just I mean, she just nails it. She's so good. Yeah, she I, you know, whenever I make another movie, she's in, which you know, there's something in the pipeline for next year, maybe. Awesome.

SPEAKER_00 40:56

So the way that we got connected, obviously, was through her. And she posted like, congrats, Joey, and like posted all your like IFS, like best film, best actor, best supporting actress. Um, and I was like, Yo, buddy, I know you saw I have a podcast now. Do you think you could hook it up? And she was like, Yeah, of course. And so, like, then she connected us, and then I started looking at IMDb, and I was like, You didn't tell me you're in this fucking movie, dude. And then I felt like anything. Oh, you didn't even know. She didn't wait, she didn't tell you. She did not tell me she was in the movie, she just like hooked it up, and like I had no idea. And then I looked at IMDB and I felt like a total dick.

SPEAKER_01 41:32

That's hilarious. She's phenomenal, too. And it's just like she also is just like uh uh a very solid piece when like call it like the last like the vomit massacre, I guess. Um, there's just so much going on.

SPEAKER_02 41:48

Man, there's a lot you were right about this vomit situation.

SPEAKER_01 41:52

Well, it's just like there's just so much going on, yeah. And you know, her character is very physical and just rough days, but she was just always right there. What do you need? How do I help? You know, it just was um, she did not disappoint, and I highly recommend anyone listening, you hire her.

SPEAKER_00 42:12

She's a full commit kind of gal. I remember in COVID filming her auditions. Yeah. In COVID, I rented a house in New Orleans and she came out and stayed for a little bit, and she was like auditioning for a couple things, and I would like film her auditions for her, and I was like, let's go, girl.

SPEAKER_02 42:28

Well, shout out to Victoria, who I have not met.

SPEAKER_00 42:30

You have definitely we need to meet. I just have to like send you party pictures to be like, this is the one you met before.

SPEAKER_02 42:37

Okay, never mind. I have met you. I've definitely hung up with you. Um, so we I don't want to take up too much of your time, but I I do have like one or two more questions for you if that's cool.

SPEAKER_01 42:48

Take up all the time that you want.

SPEAKER_02 42:50

Oh, cool. In that case.

SPEAKER_00 42:52

Um, there's no if there's but I wanted to go back to fill my drink real quick.

SPEAKER_02 42:58

Do it. Go ahead. We'll we'll we'll talk without you.

SPEAKER_00 43:01

You start asking, I'm gonna fill up and I'll be right back.

SPEAKER_02 43:04

All right, cool. Uh I wanted to just go back to the premise of this movie, and you said it was personal about like uh unhealthy coping mechanisms and whatnot, and just sort of like the state of the world right now about everywhere you look, everywhere you see, it's like you know, ten things you should do here and five things you should do there here to like improve and improve your life, or like, oh, you should be eating you know this sort of food instead of this sort of food, whatever. Was that a big part of the inspiration for this too? It because it it does feel and maybe again, I haven't seen the film, so maybe I'm I'm going too far off just based on the description. No, um that's that feels like something that's happening right now in society is a lot of distractions and coping mechanisms for whatever.

SPEAKER_01 43:46

I mean, this new looks maxing thing is driving me crazy.

SPEAKER_02 43:50

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 43:50

Yeah, um I would say, yeah. Well, the one thing I will say is there's no technology in the movie completely his own, you know, set up to be in his own. Kind of world. If you going back to like inspirations, I thought a lot about um American Psycho and The Lighthouse. Um I think uh Lighthouse is a they're both to me mental illness movies along with Shane, you know.

SPEAKER_03 44:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:17

Um and like Recruim, you know, that type of horror, those films are just horror films to me, different type. So I think in doing that, it's just he's doing all the things that society, I guess, would say say to you through your phones and your screens. But the big part of me taking the screens out of it initially when I was writing was that was a character's way of coping with that he didn't want to uh be looking all at all this stuff all the time because he's becoming obsessive. Because personally, I used to have like crippling emetophobia, okay, which is the fear of vomiting. Okay. Um so and it um it's odd in my life. I got a really terrible fever, and I was living in Van Nuys, and I got violently ill, and the weirdest thing was afterwards I felt so good that like my fear kind of went away.

SPEAKER_02 45:15

Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_01 45:16

Because it made it made me feel so much better. So this thing that I was fearing for so long actually was a tool to help me.

SPEAKER_02 45:23

Are you saying because you were vomiting, like you were you were forced to vomit?

SPEAKER_01 45:27

You it sort of like Yeah, like I had some weird and my fever went away, all the body aches, like all at once. And I was like, oh, okay. I remember just standing in the doorway, like, what an odd feeling. Um, and then I wrote it down. I'm like, good idea for moment in script at some point. Um but the weird thing is, is when I was younger, that's started because I vomited, like the fear of it. So there's a bit of it where he's kind of agoraphobic because he's afraid to leave the house uh because he'll get ill.

SPEAKER_05 46:03

It's kind of the idea behind him.

SPEAKER_02 46:06

So it's there's something. Yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_05 46:09

Go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 46:10

I was gonna ask you, so is his fear in the movie this is it the is agoraphobia or is it? It's many things. It's many things.

SPEAKER_01 46:16

It's like it's taking a bunch of stuff from my life, other things that I've heard, building it all into this thing so he is living in this bubble. Where I definitely was like getting OCD from Yeah, OCD, like and it's not like sewing your face or like washing of the hands, like there's a cleaning lady every day, you know, just very, you know, just just wellness in general. He truly he truly believes that if he makes all these changes, it's going to lead him to a thing that will forever protect him.

SPEAKER_04 46:53

Right.

SPEAKER_01 46:53

Um, or everyone will, you know, accept him or whatever it is. Um, and that to me that leads to an unhealthy coping mechanisms, if you want to call it, or just lifestyles. You know, there's no when you don't when it's so rigid and then the wiggle comes and then it's like it all falls, like we you can't live your life that way.

SPEAKER_02 47:17

Yeah. I think, but I think that's like sort of a universal thing. Like, I feel like obviously those people are gonna have like a very personal specific thing towards that, but I feel like that's also very universal in terms of like everyone's gonna be able to relate to sort of trying to cope with something or ignore something or distract yourself, right, from something.

SPEAKER_01 47:37

I wrote that down in terms of even in my pitch deck, it's like uh everyone has their own woozy, it's just how do you deal with it?

SPEAKER_02 47:47

Yeah, sort of like your demon, right?

SPEAKER_01 47:49

Your demon's yeah, everybody in the world, big, small, whatever it is, you know, Sway gotta be nice to people. You just don't know what they're going through. Totally. You don't know if their woozy's big or small. You have to have empathy in the world for people because you just don't know what they're going through. Yeah. And that is the biggest uh my biggest thing with with the film. Where because this guy is just not talking about it, and unfortunately, it's just hurting everyone around him, or he believes it's hurting everyone around him. But really, you just if you can't tell people how what's going on or feeling, um, no one can help you, and the other way is you have to be gentle and patient with people if they can't. That's a great message, and that's truly where it came from. And then in the middle of it, let's have a little fun in the in the telling of it, even though like some of this could be heavy and dramatic. But if you really look at it at the lens sometimes of even the stuff I was going through, now I kind of laugh. I'm like, it's a little funny, dude. Yeah, uh, that seems a little ridiculous, but at the time it was this is too like catastrophic to me, my being at the time, my well-being.

SPEAKER_05 49:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:09

Um okay, so I have to ask you a question, then going back to that, uh, because Woozy is half part mime, which I get like I assume kind of like mirroring and all of that. Um part cat. Do you have childhood fears, adult fears? Like what what where does the cat come from?

SPEAKER_01 49:31

My mother uh is um deathly allergic to cats. And uh I've been around a few times where these attacks would happen, and we couldn't find her in hair her inhaler or get her to a hospital, and that had like such a lasting effect on me. So you know, this isn't giving anything away, but it's just like really anytime Emile sneezes in the movie, he kind of like hears a little meow, and then any anytime he's sneezing, he knows like this thing's right around the the corner, and it just you know it's kind of adding up to one of his quirks in the movie where there's a scene with his father on on the beach, and he sneezes and he says he needs his inhaler, and his dad's like, Oh, you got you got another cork going on, and you in the movie you realize you're leading up to Dusty where you're kind of living in the world where he has this new cork that he's trying to use or deal with. Um, and also on top of that, he's using this inhaler and everything everything. So, like that's where it came from because that story for me, if I added it to all the other, because I never really had asthma or anything. I was like, if I add this element to this character, because for me as a kid the feeling was terrifying, yeah. And to me, some of it was like giving Emile like boyish um fears where he's a grown man, but it feels boyish yet. Yeah, there's like an immaturity sort of yeah, we should we should be able to get over this, but some people don't go at that pace, and that's okay. Um so that yeah, it's a corticopy of things.

SPEAKER_02 51:29

Is that what do you hope people take away from this this film? As far as I mean the message, but also just sort of the the vibe of it. Like, are they gonna is it supposed to be fun? Is it supposed to be deep?

SPEAKER_01 51:42

I think it's I think it's middle of the road, right? I think you can have fun with it, but at some point you do realize there's not even like a like I don't even want to say like a message film, but there's there's a sense of subject being the story of being told. Yeah. And within that, you can have fun. But uh Ethan, this is bring back to Ethan Hawk. He I want to say he quoted Paul Schrader where he said, uh, you know, uh every great movie starts after you leave the theater. And I do believe that this film can resonate with people in that way. Uh and even if you're not scared in the theater, you could be unsettling, is when you go to bed at night, yeah, and your head hits the pillow, you think about the movie and you go, holy fuck, that was terrifying.

SPEAKER_02 52:41

I think that's all what's lacking a lot in movies these days, too, is is is we tend to see something digest it and then it doesn't stick with you.

SPEAKER_00 52:50

We literally went on a rant on this this week, recording our episode about Hokum. I don't know if you saw Hokum, but we both saw it and then just it kind of turned into a rant about like there's not enough movies that actually like make you feel things and they can be good or bad, but that's the point. Like we were talking about like when we saw a Joker together, however fucking many years ago that was, and it was like it makes you feel horrible. And it's a really good movie, and that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_05 53:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:20

Like it sounds like what uh I think a lot of and and maybe I'll cut this out, but like a lot of movies tend to play things safe. They don't want to make the audience too uncomfortable. And also I feel like the audience sometimes when they feel uncomfortable, they sort of push back on that and and feel like I don't like this or whatever. Right. But I think that's what movies are, like really good movies. You're supposed to feel sort of uncomfortable moments, you're supposed to take something away from it, it's supposed to stick with you when you leave the theater and sort of help you, you know, interpret life as you as you move on with that. And uh it sounds really like this sounds like a really cool movie that uh is attempting sort of that.

SPEAKER_01 54:03

And I don't want to put words in your mouth, but no, no, it's it's uh it's definitely in a in a attempt at that. And I have to give like the producers and everyone, you know, the accolades of you know scary as it was making it. Um I always promise like I'm not gonna, it's gonna be under 90 minutes, I'm not gonna wear it at my welcome. I think this particular story only needs this amount of time. It will be scary, odd, weird, and fun, and uh it will be a roller coaster. And I do think we deliver that. I don't think you ever really know where the movie's going. Um I also feel that like with the gentleman who scored the movie, Rudy Mancuso, you can't ever put your finger on where the score is going from the beginning to the end. He's always there's like a losie theme in there, but it isn't like this is exactly what losie's theme is. Yeah, we're kind of swimming into these different sounds that you know as he was scoring, he was like, I feel this, and it it feels haunting, and here's why, let's walk it down this way. And then he sent me something, and you're like, Yeah, that's awesome, dude.

SPEAKER_02 55:20

This is really cool. Well, I'm glad you brought that up because I did I did want to talk about him. Just because like I I remember from years ago, like seeing him on Vine and and social media and whatnot. Yeah, he was like a uh a big influencer in that way. What was it like uh working with him and how did you guys link up?

SPEAKER_01 55:38

I I known Rudy for years, so now what's funny is I married his childhood best friend.

SPEAKER_04 55:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 55:46

Um they grew up together. Um, well, I'm legally married. My actual ceremony is in Italy in a few weeks.

SPEAKER_02 55:55

So you congratulations for that's awesome. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 55:59

Yeah, thank you. Um, so we got a little premiere, a little Italy.

SPEAKER_02 56:02

It's gonna be a busy couple weeks coming up.

SPEAKER_01 56:07

And I so you asked me where we shot this. We shot it in Jersey under the New Jersey tax credit, and uh my wife and Rudy are from Montclair, Glenridge, New Jersey. So when I I um landed there, I was staying at my wife's house, her uh my in-laws' house, and Rudy just happened to be in town, and we had talked during COVID about him scoring the little version, and he was just like, Hey, am I still scoring this movie? And uh, and I was like, honestly, yes. Yeah, if you want to, and he's like, Of course I want to, let's let's do it. And then his partner, Jamie Rise, who does the sound design in this movie along with Brendan Laird, um, they just came on and they're like, What do you need? And really, they were so great. They gave me the dance piece that I needed for Jackie. Nice. So Jackie had that to um rehearse, and then they gave me like a playlist of just different different tracks that there's these the stuff that I do that's like Emile's brain, and it's just the woos on a blackboard or Vicky on a blackboard, and I would just put like a spotlight on, and I would take the camera uh with Armando, and we would play like the tracks of whatever they had, and they would just like dance or punch or do all these weird movements, and we would just, you know, in the edit of just like blips of Emile's mind. Yeah. Um, and so we would send them, you know, Rudy and Jamie videos of them on set, they get so amped, which would get them excited to to score. And yeah, and uh it just you you work with someone like Rudy, um, who you know, I don't use the word lightly, but is a musical genius in some sense, you know. It's his movie on Amazon called Musica is all about how he has anesthesia, and it's just it is fascinating to to watch someone's brain work that way.

SPEAKER_04 58:18

Yeah, that's very cool.

SPEAKER_01 58:20

And also him like, how do we give silence a sound?

SPEAKER_00 58:24

You know, being really excited about that, oh, this drone here, and then you know I literally never in my entire life thought about sound design until we started this podcast. And then it was like, oh, this scare works because of this sound, this works because of that sound, this didn't work because the sound design didn't work. Like it's a weird thing to think about, it's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 58:47

Yeah, yeah, it it's cool too because I never thought about sound design within score. Because like I'd be talking to Rudy or Jamie, and they'd see the opening, and then Jamie would be like talking about the sign sound design of the actual score piece. And I was like, Oh, that's really cool. And then they'd play back because the opening of the movie is kind of a crescendo of his life in different cuts, and then the title card comes up and says woozy, so you feel like a bit, and it's just like these they do this, it just starts. I mean, it starts really cool, like with this like kind of finger-picking guitar, and then it kind of like shifts into like this blender of sound throughout.

SPEAKER_02 59:34

Yeah, like not non-instrument sounds or like a mixture of everything?

SPEAKER_01 59:37

A little mixture of everything, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 59:40

Very cool.

SPEAKER_01 59:42

Yeah, I mean, it was uh it was a great um a great experience all around. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:50

Now I and I was looking at your IMDb. Have you shot short films before? Is this like your first time full-time directing?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:00

Um, yeah, I've yeah, I've kind of directed, I've directed before and did uh a lot of exercises. I've edited a lot and I've acted in um like a bunch of stuff. I mean, even when we went into pre-pro for this, I was I have a film coming out called People Not Places, where I play uh Shirley McLean's son, um, which was a bucket list for me um because she's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:26

Uh very specific but bucket list.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:30

I mean, one of the greats, man. I mean, yeah, I'm having lunch with her, yeah, and she's like, excuse me, I gotta pick up the phone. It's my brother, and I realize she's talking to Warren Beatty. Yeah. I'm like, this is that's awesome. Yeah, and then after this, I'm gonna go in the summer. I'm gonna go do a movie. Um with uh I've worked with William H. Macy a few times. I'm gonna go do a movie with him and Heidi Gardner.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:53

Um uh kind of indie indie drama, and then I'm gonna edit that film. So nice.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:00

Um could be cool. Uh any directing gigs coming up? Or do you have any?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:04

I have a I have something up my sleeve for hopefully later next year. Um I definitely have the next story I want to tell.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:14

Is that would that be in the horror genre potentially? Or you I think so, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:20

I mean, it will be uh, you know, I think it's horror Jason again. I think living in this kind of world hasn't hasn't hasn't intrigued me greatly. Yeah. You know, like I can't I've just been thinking a lot. Lately, I've just been thinking a lot of killing of a sacred deer, you know, just yeah, great movies.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:41

You guys keep referencing the same movies. You don't you don't know this, Joey, because you don't do this podcast every week, but you'll drop a movie and Ben's talked about it, and I'm like, meh.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:51

Can we talk about begonia?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:53

I love begonia.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:54

Begonia, dude, it's my favorite movie of the year.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:56

It's yeah, it was the best movie of the year. It was awesome.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:59

Oh, Steve Benjamin!

SPEAKER_02 1:02:00

Yeah, it's so good. I I I'm surprised that it didn't uh make a bigger stir, sort of, but I mean an Emma Emma Stone, like I just she's just on another planet right now.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:12

Yeah. In the best way. Um well guys, this was awesome. Thank you. Thank you so much. If if you need uh anything else from me or a sound bite, um, I know I ramble, so I apologize. Um you ordered Rambo. This is great. What'd you say? No, ramble. I say I ramble.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:34

Oh, I ramble. I was like, you Rambo's great. I ordered Rambo if you guys want to come over to watch. Totally. Um, thanks so much for coming on. This was an amazing conversation. Um, and I'll send you the the after I I'll edit this the next two days or so and then I'll send you the full interview. So if you want to listen to it, if there's anything you want to stick out or whatever, no problem. Um great. Thank you so much.