Backrooms: We love getting lost in its liminal horror

This week on Slasher Bash, Maddi and Ben talk about how much they loved getting lost in the Backrooms and their theories of what it all means.  

Transcript

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Let's do this, bitch. What's up, everybody? Welcome to Slasher Bash, the podcast where two friends talk all things horror. I'm your host, Madison, here with my co-host Benjamin. Hello, everybody. And we're here to talk about backrooms. Yeah, we're not hungover at all. Yeah. Not miserably dying. Ugh. Yeah. It's been a it's been a weekend for both of us separately. Yet in spirit, I guess we weren't together because we were both drinking. Yeah. It's gonna be an interesting episode because one, my brain is fried, but two, also I have so much to say and I don't even know where to start. Mm-hmm. I don't like it's gonna be all over the place. So please bear with us. I don't know. Anyway, we saw the movie today. Yes. Well overall thoughts. Did you like it? First of all, this is if we're talking what movie we're talking about? Backrooms. Backrooms. It's not called the backrooms, is it? Just backrooms. Backrooms, which was directed by um Kane Parsons. Kane Yep, Kane Parsons. Also known online or YouTube as Kane Pixels. Yep, that's his YouTube channel, which is what this is kind of sort of based on, but that was based on this whole like internet sort of culture lore thing. Um James Wan is a producer on this. Oh, really? Nice. Yeah. And Sean Levy. There's like a ton of producers on this, which is kind of weird. There's also this weird conspiracy, maybe we'll talk about it. How people think like he didn't direct this movie, like someone secretly ghost directed it or whatever. Same discussions happening with um session as well. I don't know if we mentioned that last week, but people can't believe these young kids can go make better movies than these seasoned better. It's like suddenly there's some good, like low budget movies, and people are like, ah, there's no way these kids like, aren't you happy? I know. I'm ecstatic about it. I'm like, oh my god, this is like so hopeful to me that these like yeah, this new generation is like making decent films. Getting the opportunity, like I'm also getting the opportunity to make decent films. Yeah. I did love that um which Dupless, Mark Dupless, Jay Duplas, the Duplas brothers Mark? Jay? I think it's Mark, yeah. I'm pretty sure it's Mark. I love that he like came out in defense of uh Kane Parsons was like he said multiple things, but he basically was like, you know, I feel like they hired me on this movie because I do mentor a lot of younger directors. So I came on prepared to like offer my tutelage or whatever, and he was like, Kane came in like overly prepared, knew exactly what he wanted, like, didn't need anybody's mentorship at all. Like he had it. Yeah, that's awesome. I saw something that was like, man, if this keeps going the way it is with all these great openings for these like young kid directors, they're never gonna hire someone over the age of 30 to direct a movie ever again. Yeah. That was fun. True. Save them a lot of money. Dude, seriously. I mean, this movie only cost, I guess we should talk about that too. It cost 10 million, apparently, according to Wikipedia, and it's already made $118 million. Wow. Last I had read it was 83, so that's great for opening. I don't know how accurate is Wikipedia. Maybe it is closer to 83. Either way, it's it's a huge number for this indie horror movie. These low budget indies, man, blowing it out of the water. Seriously. What do you think that 10 million went to though? Like, is it just building those sets? Because they're so the whole time I was wondering like how they built all these different rooms. I read that it was like it was like a practical like 30,000 square foot set, and that like people would like like film crew would get lost on the set all the time. Really? Yeah, that would be me. I was so well what's let's we'll jump in. I was like, I was gonna say, I was so paranoid these actors were or these characters are gonna get lost every second they were in this place. Oh my god, yeah. As soon as he went in there, take some chalk, dude, or something. Yeah, started exploring, and I was like, Are you not like worried you're gonna lose your way? And then she did the same thing, and I was like, What is wrong with these people? Why are they going in so deep without any sort of plan first? Yeah, there's someone hammering downstairs. Can you hear that? No, I can't. So that's I think why there's a new neighbor downstairs, and they they're like hanging shit. They keep hammering. What what did you just say to me? I was so distracted by the hammering. Uh just that it was shocking to me that both him and the therapist just like went in so unprepared and like didn't think like, wow, this looks like a giant fucking maze I could get lost in. Yeah, agreed. Um, real quick, Metacritic score, 77. It's almost worth not worth doing these scores anymore, but I guess we should do them. They just all seem to be around the 70s. Um, all right, yeah, go ahead. What were you saying? Over over like general thoughts? I liked it more than I thought I would. Um I really like the YouTube short, like the very first one. That's the only one I've ever watched. Um and I was talking with a coworker about it who saw it like opening night, and he was like, you know, it's uh no explanation, no resolution, but if you like the short, this feels a lot like that. And I was like, okay. Um but I I actually really enjoyed it. Like I was more I was more engaged than I expected for how tired and hungover I was. I was surprised that I literally like didn't fall asleep and was just like really like in it the whole time. And it actually made me jump a lot. Like I jumped more in this than I did in Hokum or Obsession or it like I jumped multiple times. Yeah, there's like an unease that's happening the whole time because you don't know what's around every corner, but at the same time, like it's like fun too. Like I want them to explore, like I want to see like deeper into this whole of what the backrooms is the whole time. I agree, I really liked the movie as well. Nice, thought it was really well made. Um, I didn't mind the pacing. I'm sure some people probably will because it was kind of slow, but I didn't care at all. I didn't either, and I didn't really think that it was slow, and then like getting up, the guy next to me was like, Oh, fell asleep halfway through that. I can see that happening though. The guy next to me was laughing his ass off like this was like a horror comedy, like constantly like bursting out laughing, and then at like a very quiet scene, completely ripped ass. I was like, What the fuck is this? Dude, that sucks. Yeah, it was not a fun person next to yeah, it was my theater was like full. Mine was too. Um, yeah. I mean, there were funny moments to this guy's, you know. I I did laugh too, you know. Uh I like laughed once or twice, but like he literally like it was like you would have thought you were in like ready or not or something where it's like joke, joke, joke, joke. Yeah, not like that at all. No. Um, I really like the cast of this movie. I thought every I thought the acting was great. Yeah. Um, so yeah, really good movie, solid movie. I should we just go Yeah, should we uh sp full spoilers from here on out? Should we go full spoilers? Um So let's just start at the beginning with her her voiceover, what you realized a little bit into it is like like passages from her self-help tapes or whatever from her like book and stuff. Yeah, I didn't realize that at first too. I I liked how they did that. Yeah. Um but I immediately wrote a couple of those quotes down because I was like, oh, this is like setting up the story of what's gonna happen for us. Like it was like, we all have our loops. Um, I wrote, Are you ready to step through? And then she said something about a path of your own design. So I was like immediately like, okay, he's like gonna go in some sort of circle, like he's just gonna keep looping in this thing, and then uh, you know, obviously we know he steps through, blah, blah, blah. Um, but then the path of your own design. I immediately was like, is this something that he's created out of his memories? Which I do think it kind of alludes to that in some sense. We can get into that later. But immediately I felt like, oh, this is all gonna be like pretty foreshadowing of like the story we're about to see. I yeah, but I think you're right. Like, I I was thinking about it a lot on the drive home. You know what's weird, just real quick side note. Like, there's like two different lores for this thing. Mm-hmm. Like, and maybe, maybe this is boring, but maybe I'll just say this just for people that don't know. This all started from a single image on the internet, this whole backrooms thing. It was like a single image. Do you know this? Mm-hmm. Yeah, of this just like weird-looking room. Not weird, like an empty, you know, retail room that was very eerie, but on its own, right? It was supposed to be like a furniture store that was closing, right? Yeah, or something. And then someone posted like this is like if you noclip into the you know backrooms, you'll you'll get lost, and blah blah blah. And then those two things got put together and it became a meme, and that was the start of like what the back rooms were. It started on 4chan, right? Yeah, and there's like a ton of lore for like that, and there's like levels and there's rul rules, and if you get lost in the back rooms, like don't drink water, like this is like all this weird shit that happens. And then this guy, Kane Par Parsons, made a short film sort of taking the vibe of that and making his sort of own lore in a way. I don't know how I again I'm not super deep. I don't know, like people might know more than me. I'm sure they do about the lore, but like um he added in this whole like, oh, there's like this this company called whatever, and they're doing experiments in this like crazy thing, right? Async or something like that, async, yeah. Async. Anyway, so like this movie is sort of based off his short film, so like it has this to me now watching this movie in the short films, like it's a different sort of lore that what I'm used to on it. It's his lore, not the like original like four-chain. And I don't know if it's like his lore, but it's definitely different from the original like inspiration for this. Um, do you know what no clipping is? I was just gonna ask you to explain no clipping. Yeah, no clipping is like it's not just video games, but it's video games or like 3D environments. It's when you like you turn on no clipping and you can move through walls and objects so you can like see like a quick view of everything that's around you, right? And so like he basically is like no clipping into the this is my interpretation. He's like no clips into this backrooms area, right? Like, and then obviously, like I cannot separate like the idea of video games with backrooms, and I'll I'll get deep into that later. I don't want to bore people right off the bat here, but um actually you're when you compared it to the other day when we were talking about it, and you compared it to like playing like Mario and you could like get into like unfinished levels by walking through walls and stuff like that. And it's like, okay, that makes perfect sense. Like that brought the whole concept together for me. Yeah, it's like it's like I remember back in the day, like playing Goldeneye, like there was levels way off in the distance, and if you had like a Game Shark or whatever, you could like noclip over there and just see, and it was unfinished, it was just like empty rooms, right? And just like random furniture, and it basically looks what the back rooms are. So when I'm creeped out, it has this sort of like nostalgia like atmosphere to me, where it's like, how creepy would it be if we were all in like a simulation, right? And he like fell into this unfinished area and we're just trapped there with these like creatures that are also unfinished in a way. You know what I mean? Like, that's terrifying to me. This movie's a little bit, I think, different. Ben, for the record, also thinks that we live in a simulation, just so everybody knows. I mean, I don't necessarily think that, I just like that idea. But you do bring it up more than anybody else I have in my life. Yeah, well, I don't know. I guess I'm just that friend. Yep. Um, so yeah, I think you're right. That long-winded way to say, like, in this movie, I think like the people that are entering the space, they're sort of influencing what's get what's happened, like what gets manifested there. Yeah. And like when he gets in there, I mean, we'll get we'll get to the end where he's like getting killed by like a version of himself. Um just went there, just threw that down. So I immediately guessed that it was gonna be some sort of version of him um when the therapist gets in to the back rooms and they hear the creature coming, and he's kind of backing up by her, and he says, Um, it's only me. You know me. I immediately knew it was like, oh, this is gonna be some weird morphed fucking version of him. Yeah, and it was fucking creepy. Yeah. You know what's funny for like how kind of cheesy, what was it? Captain Captain Clark. That was his like pirate name. Like for how cheesy that like morphed giant Captain Clark looked. It worked, like it scared me. I wasn't like distracted by it. Like, yeah. I actually was surprised that it worked as well as it did because I did look at it. I was like, okay, so it's like a fucking deformed pig leg giant pirate, but it is actually scary. Yeah, and there was like something about it that felt like almost like it was like a like Chuck E. Cheese animatronic or something. Did you see? I posted this on our Instagram. Did you see that um McDonald's did a collaboration and they did like a two-minute McDonald's commercial where they're going through the back room and it's like different McDonald's set pieces, and then you get to the end, and like the creature that pops out the corner is Grimace. Oh, really? That's hilarious. Yeah, it was so good. Bizarre collaboration, though. Yeah, that is a weird one. Um, yeah, I feel I had a feeling that that was happening too, but also like the there's another person in there, and they all like look like weird distorted versions of people that are existing in this plane, in this plane, right? Except for the main characters. The one that was like had red hair, like they they showed us a photo of like his wife. Yeah, so I thought for sure that was. I thought it was his wife. I think it's I think it was. He never clarifies, but he says multiple things that I was like, that is his wife. Because otherwise, too. What is really the point of showing you the picture of the wife on the nightstand, even though they're split up? I guess the way he talks about her in therapy, it's not like he misses his wife and wants her back. He seems pretty angry about her. So why is that picture of the two of them on the nightstand? Unless the whole purpose is to show us his wife so that we see that this is like a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a memory of his wife. Exactly. You know what? And now it's like that's that's cool that you say that because now I'm thinking like maybe it is his manifestations in there, and when he says, like, it's like a memory of a memory or something, that every time it tries to like remember something, it's like less detailed. Like maybe it's also like symbol like uh symbolic of his own memory of like his wife and the night that they always talk about where he like got kicked out of his own house or whatever, and they had that argument. Like, maybe at this point in his life, his rage and his distress from all of that has distorted the reality of what actually happened. Yeah. You know what I mean? And so, like, that's why in the back rooms, like it's even more, it's even more distorted in a way, because it's like you can never really know what the reality of was that of the of that night. I I did find it uh the first therapy scene when she's like, let's do the role-playing exercise, and they like are going back and forth, redoing that night. I did find it, I guess, distracting or not believable that he would so comfortably slip into like acting out this scene with the therapist as if the therapist was his wife and like feeling all the real emotions and stuff. Like, yeah, I don't know. I've been in therapy, I've had to do some weird exercises, and believe me, I'm not just going full blown into character and screaming at my therapist. But maybe that just It's him. That's just how easily he is disturbed, like he gets he loses it. Yeah, right? He's it's actually harder for him to be like a normal polite person, maybe. And he's and if you just push him a little bit, maybe he goes off the rail like that. Because honestly, once he gets the two assistants to come help him, like go into the backrooms, he's pretty fucking rageful towards them, right? Well, he's clearly because like it's funny, like I when I went back um to the IMDB page after seeing it, and the description focuses on the therapist as the main character. Um, and I was like, okay, that makes sense because like even though it's set up kind of like at first that he's like a good or just the main character, I guess. Like he doesn't, I don't think he's like a bad guy. I think he's a complicated character. But then as soon as he brings the assistant and her boyfriend in and is letting them take all the risk and is being like super irresponsible and dangerous and cavalier about the whole situation, I was like, this guy's fucked. Yeah. I agree. I think it's like you're sort of on his side, but you kind of get to a point where you realize he's sort of the villain of in all of this. And they kind of have like an anti-redemption happening where it's like you think he's gonna I guess we're just gonna talk about the end a lot, but we you think he's gonna have like some sort of redemption with whatever this drama is with his ex-wife, but at the end he's basically just wants to be told you can be a dick, like you can be who you are, right? You don't have to change. Yeah, don't feel bad about being a terrible person. Like you can just be one and you can stay here forever and be that terrible person. And it's do you know what I mean? It's like a it's like an anti-redemption. It's like him wanting to not have to work hard. It is actually a pretty strong metaphor just in general for like people getting trapped in their trauma and in their own like inability to like, you know, when people everything's everyone else's fault, and somebody just can't get out of their own fucking way. They really captured that, I think, with this character. Yeah. And honestly, now that you're saying that, even the girl, like we I love how this movie doesn't really tell you about her trauma at all. You just gotta like piece it together yourself and connect the dots, right? Like she's like trapped in this like household who with this mother guardian who like won't let her go outside as I you know, just like paranoid, schizophrenic or something, I assume, and like has like what the newspapers all over the windows and stuff. And she had made some reference in her like voiceover book bits that was like the lock on the window was never really broken or whatever. Um I can't remember where I was going with that. But it like I I just because like I have friends who are therapists and stuff, I do actually feel like a lot of people get into therapy to understand their own trauma. So even though they didn't like flat out say it, um, I thought her story was pretty easy to put together just in terms of yeah, like her I I assume her mom was a paranoid schizophrenic, but who knows? I just yeah, I agree. And I and I liked how they they did it because then halfway through the movie, like you realize like she's like she's the final girl. No, she uh she's the main character, really, in this thing, right? And uh her sort of trauma gets sort of resolved, or at least to us, I guess symbolically, when she's like smacking uh monster version of the dude in the head with her like handprints or whatever. Captain Clark. I told you this was gonna be all over the place. That's okay. Let's talk about I loved how they sort of gave us both the handheld stuff that the shorts do so well, right, on YouTube of just like a camcorder being held by somebody and kind of getting like that static y VCR look over everything, right? When I showed Chloe the short and she was like, if I have to like watch a found footage film with that like neon buzz going the whole time, she's like, I can't sit in the theater and do that, I'll lose my mind. So I thought that was gonna be like super distracting, yeah, but it was not. It just really, it's like when you're in an environment like that in real life where it's like the most loud, obnoxious noise if you pay attention to it, but it just blends into the environment and pulls you in. Like the hum of fluorescent lights, sort of, right? Like it's but I love how they gave us those moments. Like I at first I thought there was that was just gonna be the opening scene, and we'll never we'll never go back to like ham handheld camcorder at all in the movie. It'll just be shot like traditionally. But I love how they flipped it back and forth and back and forth, and we got that scene with the three of them, which I also thought was really fun to have three characters in there together running around trying to figure out what's going on. And they did some really clever scares. Yeah. You know, like it was clever the stuff they did. I also but there are there are holes for me though. Like when the three of them are in there and he's puts the camera down and he's trying to help the girl, what Kate, I think her name was, his assistant or whatever. Mm-hmm. Yeah um, and then the creature, one of the creatures picks up the camera. Mm-hmm. And then we don't ever like find out really what happened. Like it's a pretty big jump between that moment and where we next meet that character. And it was That's not really a hole. It's not a whole holding information, yeah. Yeah, but I was like, that's a pretty big time jump. Like I and you didn't fill in the whole, you didn't fill in the plot points of what happened to like like we see her beheaded in the fridge. Did he do that? Did the creature do that? Uh I assumed he did not do that. That was my interpretation of that. But he was so fucking creepy and weird about it when he opens the fridge and you see the head. Well, I mean, he's obviously lost his mind at this point. Like he's gone crazy. I just, I don't know. Something about like maybe he did do it. I just thought it was clear to me that he was gonna be like a soul survivor. I don't know. We'll never know. But like my interpretation was like he's just for some reason hanging on to that. I don't like it. It just felt sometimes like there were things that they started that they didn't finish. And uh like the whole the first time he goes in and he finds the backpack with all the disc drives and that person's ID and stuff, and then he leaves the backpack and keeps going in and then finds another way to get out from the creature or whatever. But it's like, did he go back for that stuff? Like, did he not think maybe that was important? Like, like, why was that like not something that was more of a like take that shit back with you and and look at what's on the discs? It's so funny because what I was thinking when he found that bag, I was like, Oh, cool clues, we're gonna like dive into this bag and figure out some cool stuff or whatever. But at the same time, I think like the back lures, the back lore's the backrooms lore, like the original lore, even also is like part of the charm of it is that like your imagination goes wild because there is no real information on it, right? It's just like it's like here's an image, what can you get from this image? It's like all these like crazy theories, like like part of it is like not having the information that makes it. It's funny. I felt like well, looking at all the different set pieces that like there were so many different, I was like, this must be a reference to this, and this must be a reference to that. And it was like very like Willy Wonka and Alice in Wonderland. And at one point I was even like maybe Scream was an influence. Like I was like writing down all these things that might have influenced it, and then I was like reading his influences, and not one of the films I thought was an influence was listed in his references. Was the shining listed in the references? No, I like didn't even know like the films that he was like referencing. And I was Do you remember any of them? No, I could probably pull it up. It was in like the IMDB trivia, but I was like, really? I had like strong shining vibes from this in a way. Interesting. Like the isolation and the guy going crazy, and then he's chasing the girl, like and he's like tying up the girl and stuff. Like there was like a shining element for me in this. I also thought that the um copy of a copy of a copy of his wife or whatever was very like the first time when he goes into that creepy ass Christmas room, yes, and uh she pops out. Her movements were very, it was like this the Silent Hill nurses and like Aunt Gladys combined. Yeah, totally. It's like impossible. Every time I think about the creepinesses, I cannot think of like video games in like simulation theory. Like, even like I don't know you probably didn't play as many video games as I did, but like older games, like the environments you would go through were pretty barren, right? So like you're you're playing Doom and you're going through like rooms, and that's to me, that's what backrooms feels like. It's like you're playing you're like in some like low, like old retro game that didn't have enough power to like detail it, right? And it's like to me, it's sort of weirdly nostalgic in a way, like being in the room, as creepy as it is. I don't know. It's it's very weird. I can't so like when you say Silent Hill and stuff, it's like I think we live in an era now where like the kids that are coming up with this stuff have like video games were always around for them. It's like part of life now, whereas like our parents and stuff like that that became a thing during their lifetime. Yeah. Whereas like now people are born with that already being a thing with a history, right? And like what does that mean when you incorporate that into a horror movie? Like you kind of get something like this, and maybe that's why it's resonating so well with audiences in a way. It's like I don't know, there's like an aspect, a DNA of like video game history somehow in this aesthetic at the same time. Yeah, that's really but it is funny that it gives you that like nostalgic vibe because like Kane Parsons is 20 years old, like he was not playing the video games we were playing as kids. But maybe he did, maybe he saw it. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Like, even just like 10 years ago, like I don't know, like there's a lot of still like independent low budget games that get made, right? Mm-hmm that don't have like a lot of detail. But well, the cool thing about this movie though is like I can go in with that and get all that context, but anyone can go into this movie and enjoy it without having any of that knowledge, I feel like. And I think that's what's really cool about this movie is like I go in, I know some of the lore from the shorts and shit. And I'm piecing together my own sort of like message or like you know, fable from this thing, what's happening. But anyone else can go see it without that and get their own sort of thing out of it. Like maybe this is a movie to them about drama on your demons following you and destroying you or whatever. Yeah. It is funny because it's like I wouldn't really say this was a cerebral film, but I do see that some people could potentially interpret this as it like being like I mean, I wouldn't really say in his head because she ends up in the Oh yeah. Yeah, she does end up in there too. But it's cerebral in a way where it's sorry, go ahead. No, well no, I was just gonna say, like, it I I get that people could take like very deep deeper meanings from it and what's going on psychologically. Maybe that's me. I don't know. Maybe I just do that with every fucking movie where I'm just like putting in shit that's not even there. But I don't know. This movie like tickles my imagination because like I sort of want to explore that. I want to explore the back room, sort of. I do too. I actually do, but I would want to go in with a tether. Like marking the walls so that I know where I'm going and where I've been in case I get untethered. Like, yeah. Also, let's talk about that opening though with that guy who's like running through and got separated from the group or whatever. I that opening like really did a solid job, I think, of like I jumped twice with that fucking bird. That bird, yeah, that bird was fucking scary. Yeah, but how cool was it too how it connected to the end? Mm-hmm. I did not expect them to do that at all. And like the fact that that was happening at the I guess at the same time that the girl was running away from from um Captain Clark or whatever. Yeah. And they ran into each other was really cool. But yeah, I agree. I thought when it first started, I was like, well, I've already seen the short. I hope this isn't just like the same shit again. And it wasn't, it was its own thing. For sure. Um yeah. I also love how like we never really saw the creatures. I mean, we see the captain one pretty I mean But like the cool thing with the I mean maybe I just know this because of the backroom stuff is like there's a bunch of different kinds of creatures down there, right? Like there's like a bunch of like different monsters and are there? I just only again saw that first YouTube that Kane Parsons did, so that was like that really cheesy, like Yeah. Like an unfinished video game character, right? Like, yeah, like something they never finished. Um what else do we want to talk about? Like uh one thing that did bother me is that when so So I I did it did bother me that they put the camera down. We don't know how he gets out, but then she gets the phone call from him that's like I went through the window or whatever. Um, and so immediately I was like, okay, he got out somehow, but then chose like that was fine making it obvious that he like somehow got out and chose to go back in. But with her going and looking for him, like why didn't she call the cops? Yeah, maybe she felt like it was her duty to as a therapist because she didn't believe him before. I don't know. But I feel like that's the thing with therapists, though, is with like shit like that, like you don't fuck around. Like, like that sounds to me like it was like the most unrealistic therapist I've ever seen. Like, yeah, no therapist is doing this shit. Yeah, I didn't take him saying like I I found the window, I'm not coming back, as him getting out. I took that as him like either metaphorically like finding a new life, or like, do you know what I mean? Like, I didn't take that as he got out ever. Like he was in there the whole time. Well, then how did he call her? That's a good point. So I I assumed that he had to have gone out at some point. I assumed he found a phone in there and he just used it and it worked. I don't know. Hmm. I don't know. Maybe you're right. But I also thought like he was down there, like time moves differently down there, potentially, and that's why when she's like, How long have you been down here? And he just doesn't really answer. Like, I think he's been down there for like weeks at least. Yeah. But you don't think it's the same for her? Like, you think it's more of like a interstellar thing when like they're on that planet for like four hours and then they come back and what's his name? Super old. Yeah, like he's been in there for like a a longer amount of time than she's than it's actually been in reality. Interesting. You know, although he did when she when he brings her into that room with the creatures, and we're realizing that he's like fully like dissented into madness and whatever. I just loved the design of that room and how it was shot, and like you bring up so much how it's a lot of point and shoot these days, and people aren't caring about angles and shots. And I did, I don't know if I told you this, but I ended up watching The Evil Dead the other night, the original, after we did Send Help. Oh wow, and I was like, okay, like I get why like Ben thinks his like camera angles and movements are are interesting. Um get even better in the second one, just wait till you watch the second one. Anyway, keep going. But uh so I was paying intentionally and paying more attention in this one because that's not something that I usually pay attention to, but I just thought it was because you had these like really interesting sets, you and then he did like really interesting things with how it was shot. So, but it was like even when it was pointed straight on him, point and shoot, the shapes and the distortions of everything like still like just made it I don't know, it was just so enjoyable to look at. I felt like even when it was boring, enjoyable to look at. I 100% agree with you. I'm glad you brought that up because like that scene specifically where they're chatting. I remember thinking to myself, like, this is such a creepy scene in like so many ways. Like, this reminds me of like Texas Chainsaw Massacre when they're like having dinner together. It wasn't the original one, it was like one of the Texas Chainsaws. The second one with the family with Renee Zellwicker and uh Matthew McConaughey. Yeah, and like they're sitting down with the crazy people having to have a meal, sort of, and like I agree, like the way that he put the camera like on the table at one point, we're like looking kind of like straight at him. Yeah, and with the chick in the background, like blocking, like the blocking was great in this too. Yeah, and I loved like when she hears whatever. The creature coming just running into the corner and just like sitting it, yeah. And the guy, when they turn the lights off and the guy just turns his light on, like that was so fucking creepy. Also, like the whole her running into the wall was very like video game reminiscent of like when like there's like a glitch and exactly, yeah. That's the accuracy. The character keeps like moving, but like can't get out of like where they're stuck, and then you have to reset the fucking game. There is so much video game stuff in this, like, even the they're called stalkers, but like some horror games nowadays, like you you you play them like this a big thing that's after you the whole time, so you you move to the level like hiding in the shadows and like trying to get it, and then it will chase you, and you're just like sprinting away. Like this whole that would terrify the shit out of me, dude. It's scary shit. This whole sequence with you know Captain Clark or whatever. To me, it's like this is like a video game stalker scene where she's like trying to get away from this thing and it's just like relentlessly chasing her. Um, like really cool scene to see that and like pretty on the at the edge of your seat sort of scene, too. I love when she gets to like the store, like the the memory of the store. Yeah, and uh like for a second you like think like she's gonna get out, and then you realize that it's just yeah, she's still trapped in there, but like then then she's like fighting this fucking creature in there. I'm like, dude, it's so cool. Um, but yeah, I agree with you. Like, I think it was shot really well, and I think maybe that's why people think he had a ghost director, which is obviously bullshit, but um, it was really well done. Yeah, I was really, really impressed. And it's funny, yesterday I was talking about um, so I mentioned like my bowling homie Liza, her brother is a huge um movie buff. So I was chatting with him yesterday when we were at the band thing at the bowling alley, and he was like, you know, like I just feel like A24 hasn't like put out a good movie in a while. And I think this one is actually really good. I agree. What did you think about the end? Let's talk about the end end. We talked about the dinner scene. It was very stranger things vibes. There were a lot of times in this that I thought it was like Stranger Thing vibes, like uh Totally, yeah. The one time when like the lights keep flickering on and off, and it and then they're like the Christmas room and the whole uh surveillance and like it it felt very it was like let's do Stranger Things, but let's do it in the 90s instead of the 80s. Yeah. Yeah. And I was expecting the creature to be like a demogorgon or something like that. And so then when I when it finally popped out and it was like a pig leg pirate, I was like, huh. Yeah. Not what I was expecting, but cool. You know, that that could have gone very poorly and like super silly. Mm-hmm. I thought that the way that they kind of revealed him where he's like you can see the pirate hat, but he's like sort of in shadow for like a majority of it. And they sort of like give you more and more of him every time you you look at him and look at so finally when you see the whole thing, it doesn't feel as like jarring to be like, that's just a fucking pirate thing. Yeah. Like if anyone had just shown that right away, I think I would have laughed. Oh, yeah. It would it is ridiculous had they not built up to it, and at that point you're already have been established that like very well that you're scared of this thing. So when you see it, you can still be scared of it instead of like just like said laughing your ass off the second you see it. Totally. And what'd you think about the mural that she finds? Such a video game thing, too. Yeah. I was like trying really hard to like read everything on it, and I was too. I was like, wait, go back. It was like tables don't bleed blood and something about the roof. And I it looked what I was trying to piece together because he was writing about something about a contract and the not knowing something about the roof and stuff. And so I assumed that his like architecture career failure had to do with some early on in his career like deal actually gone bad that fucked him over, and essentially, like that's how he ended up in this. Oh, interesting. I think you're right. Oh smart. Maybe his whole like his speech about like him saying, like, I I'm I am an architect, I just have to do this. Like, he's just like trying to cope for the fact that he had this huge fuck up, maybe, and got lost a client or something. That's that's I like that a lot. That's cool. I'm gonna have to watch this movie again. I really want to see it again. I ended up seeing it by myself. Um yeah. I was hoping Chloe would see it. Well, now I want her to see it with me. I was like, I will go back and see it again. She's like, I don't think I need to see it in theaters. I was like, I kind of think you should. Yeah, because like there's a lot of sound design stuff I think we get lost at home. Really good sound design. Yeah. Yeah, you should you should get her to go. Yeah, I actually really want to go back and see it again with her. For I want to actually see it again, and I want to see it with her. I think she'll really enjoy it. Yeah. Do you think that she's stuck with this like research or whatever this company is? Yeah, because then that last shot is like a a duplicated version of her or whatever. And so my kind of assumption that I put together is like you have to be in there long enough for it to like keep trying to recreate and duplicate you. Um That's I mean, I just made that assumption, but yeah, I think she's stuck for sure. Do you think that the research, this ace all these people that are working for async are also like that's actually in the backrooms, their whole base and stuff? No, because there's one part when you see um Phil. That was so funny. I'm Phil. I know, I know. Um there's one point when you see him like out in his like house with his family watching. Is that yeah, but I f I don't know, I just feel like if uh if your whole family was stuck in the backrooms, you wouldn't be having like a such a normal experience like that. Like there'd be weirder conversations, weirder things happening. Like that was a very maybe they found like a safe area. A safe room. Like because do you remember the opening scene after the short film ends? It goes black and you can see reflections of people like weird, it looks like weird people watching the video. Yeah. What the fuck was that? Was that his family? I assume no, no, I think it was the people that were like found her with the guys in the hazmat suits, and they were like people standing above on that like bridge or whatever. I assume it's those people who like I think it was that same surveillance feed where we find out that they're kind of watching him too. Um yeah, it's the async or whatever. I don't know, it seemed kind of odd, like it seemed a little creepy to me. Like, I like now thinking about it, maybe those were like you know, replica people or whatever, copy people watching it or something. I mean, maybe I immediately, as soon as I saw that in the opening, took it as like a stranger things situation where it was like, okay, government surveillance is happening in this like uh like anomaly of uh I mean basically it's like some backrooms of some sort of dimensional anomaly that is being, I assume, monitored by the government. That's just how I took that. Yeah. I guess yeah. I kind of like the idea that maybe they're all like stuck there because like part of the original lore was like once you're in, you're like, there's no way to get out. You're only really you can just survive it. Yeah. And like there's like a bunch of levels, you like the that room that we see in this movie is level zero, and like there's a bunch of different environments as you make your way up, but you can never actually get out of it. Interesting. Yeah, it's super creepy. Usually, like I watched a bunch of YouTube videos on that stuff. I love that first short though, when he falls in the hole and then falls out of the sky and hits the ground. I was like, that's solid. It's cool. Um there's also like, and maybe maybe this is too much video game talk, but like there's like nowadays there's a bunch of games that are sort of like low thing, but it's about ex exploration with your friends. So you go in and it all has this aesthetic of like handheld cameras and like you know, low polygons and like distortion, and you're in there and you don't know like there's like weird shit in there too after you. What are low polygons? Like just like you know, looks like an old game. Like it looks, you know, like a low polygon count, you know, so it's not like super detailed or whatever. And like even the hazmat suits to me, like I could send you shots from some video games where like it looks like even Among Us. The hazmat suits were super cheap and cheesy looking. Um I think that's intentional though. I think they're trying to do that. Yeah. Did you play Among Us back when that was like a big thing? Literally, like as a kid, I played like Super Mario and Mario Kart and shit. Um anyway, yeah. I don't know. I think I don't think she's dead. I don't think they killed her. No, I think she just doesn't have a choice now other than to be a background explorer. Explorer. She's gonna become one of them. Yep. You're either with us or against us. Do you want a sequel for this movie? Do you want to see how deep this is? Yeah, I do actually. I find it very fascinating because it's kind of like what you said about your imagination just runs wild. Yeah. I uh I think this could be a cool thing for to have different directors do and to like show their like sort of version of what like how they would do a backrooms. It'd be interesting more, I think, as like a television series, like different backroom stories. Yeah. Kind of like Black Mirror. Yeah, totally. But all just back backrooms. Yeah, and like the way that it's messing with people. Um yeah, I really enjoyed this movie. Thought it was very well done, really creepy. I thought it was fun and funny in the right moments. Like the sets were incredible. Yeah, the sets were unbelievable. Yeah, and and hats off to Kane Pearsons, Parsons. Parsons, yeah. For like like you were saying earlier with the camera work and making, you know, because I'm getting lost in there. Like he every room he goes, every cut. Now I'm like, where are do you remember? I'm trying to like I'm trying to-back. Exactly. I'm doing it for him the whole time. That's funny that you were doing that too. Totally. Also, one thing I forgot about, I was so grossed out when he scalped the wife creature or whatever, and then put the wig on the therapist and made her wear it. That was like a fucking good, like kind of silence of the lambs sort of. Yeah. But they established that it was just like it's not blood in there, it's just like stuffing and shit. Remember when they ripped that guy's stomach over? Yeah, he's like, Great thing is you can eat him. Yeah. I wanted to see them eat him. I wouldn't even see them think about it. When he cut into it at first, it kind of looked like like just a big thing of like gooey fat. But then as soon as it was like sitting on the table, it just looked like foam. Yeah, it looked like I don't even know what marshmallow? Fuzz. We'll have to look up what they what they used. Yeah. Um, I really liked like this is just like straight thoughts. Now I really liked when the guy got like taken down the hole. He got like grabbed or whatever. And when they get down there, it's just like blood smeared. You don't like really see anything. And how it had like sand that door with him coming up. Yeah. Yes. Every time they would show, like, there's a creature there, it would just be like the very small like silhouette of something like creeping. Yeah. And they would and then he, you know, he would turn and just run. It was like so perfect. And then that weird um cardboard cutout that they kept showing. Yeah, I want to know what it was saying. Uh yeah, I don't know. I read it was like something about from it's from the Voyager, but I don't know what that is. Oh, really? What's the Voyager? Like the Space Shuttle? Oh, is that what it was? All the different languages projected from that could be it. Or not the, I guess it's not a space shuttle. It might be one of the like, didn't we send like something out into space that had like a bunch of messages? Yeah, that's what it was. It's like it's just going. I don't know. Maybe it's that. That was the recording. I read that twice. That was lifted, and I was like, What's the Voyager? I was thinking it was like referencing like a movie or something. But that makes sense. Yeah. But what was the cardboard cutout though? Like, what the fuck was that? I don't know if that's like some sort of Easter egg for people that really know what's going on. But like there was that shot when he was in that place with the laundry, you could see like a face in the pot one of the piles. Did you see that? Oh, yeah, all the ripped up pieces of the dude. It was that dude, and I was like, Is there somebody sitting right there? Yeah. Yeah. Freaks me out. Um, yeah, it was just so cool because every then when he crawls into like they were so good at the tension stuff because like when he crawls into the small square in that first when he first goes in, and he's crawling and he's getting farther and farther, and I'm like, dude, you're gonna get fucking stuck. And then he hears that noise and he's like yelling at it, and then the just the shadow goes by, right? And it freaks him out. He just like tries to bail. I really liked it. So much of this movie is like not seeing stuff. I really liked that first encounter he has in the back rooms with the thing that he doesn't actually see, but he crawls through that tunnel, and then he but he's not like doing like panicked hysterical running, he's like, you know, kind of hurried walking, but doing like a very like like it's not the typical like freak out run thing that you see in scary movies. He's trying to stay calm and but he's like clearly terrified and trying to just get out of there. Yeah. If you found a wall that you could go through, nope. You wouldn't go in. Uh if somebody went in and before me and came back out, sure. But if I just found it all by myself, no. Really? You wouldn't go in? No. So do you think that the when the two two assistants were like, yeah, we'll go into this wall was like a normal reaction to have. I think the dude, yeah, her, she was not really all about that shit. Yeah, but she still went in. It's true. I did laugh my ass off when he was like, when she was like, Do you think he dosed us? And then he's like, I would know if I was on drugs, and she's like, or he's like, I would know if I was high, and she's like, You are high, and he's like, That doesn't count. Yeah, like we doesn't count. Yeah, my whole audience laughed at that. Yeah, that was funny. I liked we didn't really talk go ahead. I just was gonna say I liked her apprehension the whole time. Yeah. We didn't really talk about the girl, the therapist that much. Mm-hmm. We kind of briefly did. Did you like her? Um I didn't dislike her, but I didn't I felt more invested in his character than I did in hers. Yeah, I agree. I I you know obviously I feel like bad for her at the end when she's running away for like for her life and stuff, but I I agree. I feel like there was some stuff left on the table with her that I wish I cared more about her. Yeah. But I didn't. Yeah. Really. Sorry. Anyway. One thing that also bothered me is when she does get like snagged by the hazmat suit guys and then goes into that room with Phil. I was just like, why is he like suddenly just like rr showing her all his cards? Which I guess I guess thinking about it now, I'm I'm like, okay, that must have been like kind of another s like she's not going anywhere, so that's why. I think like I don't think they're gonna murder her. I think like now she's just kind of their prisoner and she can choose to like explore and help them or whatever. Like I didn't really see them as like an evil corporation or evil company that's trying to like, you know, you make it a weapon or like mine some sort of resource out of it. I think genuinely they were like scientists that were trying to figure out what the fuck this place is. And so, but uh, you know, obviously they want to keep it a secret. I do wonder though, like there was that shot of early on when we see the other end of the camera and we see like the footage of of our of Clark, our main character, being watched by Mark Duplis or whatever his name is. And they were like, wouldn't you try to be wouldn't you be trying to find who this like this where this guy is? Like T D just like, oh that's weird, and then just like go about his day. Yeah, that's yeah, because here's the thing, is like they're watching him, right? So they're aware at that point that he can come in and out. Yeah, and if they don't want her to leave, like obviously they they don't want him to leave, but it doesn't seem like they did anything to keep him unless they saw him keep going back in, like, let's just study this guy and like see what happens. Which it made sense, and I was like, they're just watching assume like that's what I assume kind of the opening scene was too was like like it was like clearly when people find their way into these back rooms, they watch to see what happens, and then he's able to put together from that commercial where the entrance to this back room is. Oh, I forgot about the commercial. Yeah. Um no, but that opening scene is down, that's async. The guy who's running though in the opening. Yeah, that's async. Oh, the guy was part of that. Oh, yeah, because he's like calling into like he's like on the radio, and then like when she runs into them at the end, like that's that's the guy. It is the guy? Are you sure? Yeah, when she with the bird, the bird comes in, he looks at the bird, he's like, like when she comes into the room at the end running away from the pirate, that's the guy. They he was calling people and they just showed up to get him, and then she's there. Oh, okay. Yeah, that's what happened there at the end. At least that's what I like thought was going on. Like, she ran into the opening scene at the end of her. Interesting. Okay, I definitely need to watch this movie a second time. Yeah, I I mean I gotta watch it too because I could be totally wrong about that. But like, that's what I immediately thought when that happened was like, oh, she's she's running into our opening scene right now. Got it. Okay. Interesting. Yeah, yeah. Oh, I think that was async. Do we know async is what it is? It was an MRI, it's an MRI machine making company. Yeah, is Async? Are we sure async's the name of the company? I think it was, right? It was like AS W. Yeah, okay. Yeah, I think so. I wonder if that's in the shorts. Anyway, I don't got much more to say. I think we glazed this movie far enough. It was dope. It was. I really enjoyed it. It's funny because I thought after I get it out, I was like, oh, but definitely enjoyed that. And then you're like, uh yeah, I'm gonna be all over the place with this when I was like, huh. Maybe you didn't enjoy it. No, because like I wanted to go on my rants about like video games. How this yeah, and how this video uh how this horror movie is like incorporating like only things that people that play video games would really understand. Like no clipping through a wall and like areas that are unfinished, and even like especially in the shorts and stuff, like all the creatures he's encountering to me are like unfinished, like AI enemies that are now just running around rampant, like in these rooms. Like, that's how I always interpreted it. And um, but like even with the stalker scenes, like with this guy, this thing chasing them, like it is so the DNA of this is so like wrapped up in like video games aesthetic, I guess. I don't know that I, you know, I have a hard time. It's like it's weird, it's like when you watch the ring and you're like, oh, it's weird that they have a videotape that's haunted because that's such a new piece of technology. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, it's like it's like if they had like a movie about a haunted, uh I don't know, for a second when you said the ring, I thought Lord of the Rings, and I was like, What the fuck are you talking about? No, the horror movie. Um, I just think it's always like it's cool now that we've gotten to a place where like that technology can now be like mysterious and eerie. Like when people watch Poltergeist, right? And then and she has her like hand on the TV and stuff in the TV. Caroline. Yeah, I just feel like that's cool when that happens. And we're now at next time. What movie was it that he was watching that had Oh, yeah. They're watching Never Ending Story. That's what it was. A tree blue, which is also a movie about going into like a different world, right? It's probably very intentional. Anyway, also never-ending story is the name. What do you mean? Like backrooms are never-ending. Oh, you're right. You're right. Well, I hope I made sense in this episode. No, I think you did, and I think it's because the concept is like it's a cool concept, but um when you explain like all the video game facets and the history and all this stuff, it just makes it so much easier to get what the meaning and what's happening, like all those things come together a little bit easier. If that is even what's happening, I think that's what's happening. I see, we're living in a simulation. I told you. Don't fall in. Don't no clip through the wall and fall on the back rooms, you'll be lost. I would shit my pants if I fell into the back rooms. That would suck. Yeah, there was like one night when I first when the trailer first came out, where I was like, I need to really look into like what this is because I'd always seen like random memes or whatever. And I was like watching YouTube videos about like all the lore and stuff, and I was like, this is creeping me out. Like it would suck so much to get stuck in there. Yeah. Like you're not supposed to like speak to these things because then they will never stop stalk. Like, there's all these weird rules and shit. Um I sense a Reddit hole coming up for me tonight, a little Reddit black hole. Do it. Anyway. Is that it? Are you alive? I am. I'm I lied when I said Reddit black hole. I'm literally gonna go crawl in bed right now at 8 30 at night. Yeah, right. Alright, cool. Well, well, sweet. I guess that's it. We enjoyed it. Go see it. I'd recommend seeing it in theaters. Yeah. Definitely a theater movie. Yeah. You know? And one that you can see multiple times. Definitely. I can't wait for like all the videos to come out of like all the like little things I missed. Yeah. Do you ever watch uh Nerd Riot videos on YouTube? Uh I'm sure I've seen a couple of years. New Rockstars, Nerd Riot. It's all like the same company, but they do like the really in-depth breakdowns and catch everything. Yeah. Eric Voss, big fan of that guy. Love Eric Voss. Shout out to Eric Voss. Very excited to watch his. I really hope he does it. Oh, I bet you he does. Or someone over there does it. Yeah, for sure. I'm looking forward to that. If it's not already out, I'm gonna go look for it right now. Yeah, me too. Sweet. All right. Well, go go get them. Cuz I thought you were gonna do it with me. I didn't realize that's what you were starting. Yeah. Go get them. Go get them, cuz. Go get them, cuz.