The Near Death Experience That Made Him Stop Proving Himself

Sukh was sitting in his car when his body started shutting down.

What began as an anaphylactic shock became a near death experience that changed his perspective on life, purpose, and choice.

In this conversation, Sukh opens up about grief, growing up between two cultures, questioning inherited spirituality, finding music as a way to process what he couldn’t say, and a vision of death that changed his relationship with himself.

For anyone struggling with depression and burnout, or simply curious about what happens at the threshold of life, this story recounts the sensation of being at a checkpoint where a choice to continue or eject felt possible and highlights the clarity that often comes from facing the end.

Sukh shares:

■ What it felt like growing up between Eastern and Western cultures
■ Why inherited spirituality can feel different when no one explains the “why”
■ How music became a way to process emotion, anxiety, and suppression
■ The near-death experience that made him choose life
■ Why being seen, feeling safe, and accepting yourself can become part of healing

Transcript

Intro

SPEAKER_08 0:00

I was sitting in my car and I didn't realize I had some kind of nuts. And I started to go into an anaphylactic shock. Couldn't breathe. And then eventually everything just went into this slow motion. And I was just sitting there and I just had this vision of something sitting next to me in the passenger seat.

SPEAKER_02 0:17

Can I ask you who? Let's talk about that a little bit.

SPEAKER_08 0:20

I think it was death. It was very much like you're at a checkpoint here. You can eject if you want. I think for me at that time, I was also a little bit depressed and overloaded a little bit and trying to prove myself. Didn't really feel seen or heard. And so many woundings. I'm just the type of person who will keep pushing through. And I think the soul did definitely take over. My soul was like, hey, listen, we have more to do here. I have a choice right now in this moment. I can choose life or death. That moment I realized that it's all about choice. What am I choosing right here, right now? That's all there is. After that experience, what was the first thing that you did? I made music right away. It was just making new tracks. And I was like, oh yeah, I'm really gonna go for it now. And there was no more holding back of anything, you know, and everything I was passionate about, I went for, I traveled, booked one-way tickets, and spent months in Asia. And I was like, I want to understand my soul, I want to understand who I am. That completely shifted my state of being in how I decide to perceive certain situations and the meanings we create. We are creators.

Who is Sukh?

SPEAKER_03 1:29

How would you describe Sukh to someone?

SPEAKER_08 1:32

Who is Sukh? First off, a human being. You know, I start to start from that place. My parents moved from India and moved from England at a at a pretty young age. And so I grew up with a family that was very multicultural. Uh, well, first very much Indian in in culture, and then I had a lot of different uh experiences in the outside world. So it was like a blend of two different types of realities between growing up with a more traditional Eastern type of uh upbringing and then immersing myself in more of a Western culture, which was, you know, it was a whole it brought a whole bunch of different challenges on its own. Uh, but I think that really, really contributed to the ability to be more open-minded because it brought me to a variety of perspectives very quickly and very early.

Growing up between two cultures

SPEAKER_00 2:26

Can you tell us a little bit about living with those two very different and diverse cultures? Like what did what were the challenges?

SPEAKER_08 2:33

And if you give us some Yeah, well, I think you know, with more Eastern and uh more eastern cultures, even Latin cultures are like this too. There's a warmth to family. Family is very much an important piece, you know, even in Haitian culture too, right? So uh it's it's very much about family and you're you're a unit first with your family, and then everybody else comes second or third or fourth and fifth down the line. So, and I think in the Western culture, it's more like you leave the family and then you go off and you do your own thing and you build your own world. So you you almost deroot yourself and you create your own root, right? Whereas the Eastern cultures are more like, well, you have a root, you take what's given to you, and you expand upon that. Absolutely. So there comes a clash, like the root is such a fundamental part of your upbringing, and when we're in our teens or in our early 20s, we're really starting to understand, oh, like what does having a root mean for me? You know, and then so you have these different definitions, and then you're trying to define that, like creating your own root versus sticking to the family dynamic, and that can create conflict because the tribe, if you start doing things that's outside of what the tribe wants you to do, they're gonna cast you out, or they won't totally uh approve of it right off the bat until they know that it's safe, right?

SPEAKER_00 4:00

What did you understand from that experience? How does it feed onto your, I guess, identity today, just having those two different cultures and upbringing?

SPEAKER_08 4:08

I would remember that I have a great time when I'm outside of this situation. Because at first I was like, why so restrictive? Why so sheltered, you know, or like I could have been better at socializing had I been out there more, and I would have uh faced through different challenges, overcome them early on rather than having to do it later. I just started to rebel, I started to feel like okay, I'm gonna pave my own way, I want to do what feels right to me. There was like an inner voice that started to come out and was like, this is good for you, this is not good for you, and that's when things started to shift a little bit. Uh, but then like as I started to get more perspective, so I was like, oh, okay, I understand. And and I I started to see my own behaviors and how I would respond to reality.

Spirituality as a family foundation

SPEAKER_03 4:53

Was spirituality present in your family as you as you were at a young age?

SPEAKER_08 4:58

Yeah, in my household, uh in the household I grew up in, it was very, it was probably one of the most important things. It was the pillar uh for everything. Basically, you start with your faith, you start with the main rules that are kind of written out in it, you know, like everybody's one, respect your neighbor and love yourself, love your people, and then you go out into the world from that foundation. And I found that was really solid. It's very healthy to have um a connection with something that goes beyond yourself right off the bat because it connects you to the world then. It doesn't connect you to the self first, it connects you to everything that's around you. And um, you're able to intake more perspective when you have that type of mindset, I believe, you know. The thing that's difficult is when there's certain rules that are imposed and you don't really resonate with the rules, and you're like, why am I doing this thing? Or you don't really traditional yeah, some traditional things can be a little bit challenging for people.

Questioning inherited traditions

SPEAKER_00 6:00

What were some examples that you really felt disconnected from, even though it came from your culture or your family?

SPEAKER_08 6:05

I mean, there were some things like like going to the temple every Sunday, or just gonna um go to church, whatever for the you know, same thing.

SPEAKER_02 6:14

Yeah, you have to because it's it's this or that, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 6:18

But you know, in hindsight, now I see the the discipline of being consistent with your faith, no matter what your situation is. So in hindsight, I'm like, okay, I see the benefit of it too, and I can see how you know my own curious young mind was like, I don't want to do this, or I don't believe in this. But when you do believe in something and you go to it every single day, or you have at least one day of the week that you go to it consistently, I mean, that sh that takes a lot of discipline and devotion.

SPEAKER_00 6:52

I think that's like an important key too, because like for example, in my uh I grew up with Buddhism and I remember, you know, somehow I I came to the idea of reincarnation and it was in the conversation. And when I asked my parents, like, why do we incarnate? Why do we why does this happen? And they never were able to give me uh satisfactory answers because they just accepted what their parents told them. This is accepted what their culture told them. But for me, I felt like I needed to understand why. Like, why you know, like I need to understand. That's where I went on this journey to discover myself. And like you said, that belief empowers those practices even more because yes, you can do it because maybe it's not your parents, maybe it's some other group that's telling you to do stuff and you can continue that or understand and and that that understanding just brings more depth to your practice.

SPEAKER_08 7:43

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 7:43

I wonder why that's so common amongst all of our cultures that our parents don't do that.

SPEAKER_08 7:48

Because I think in the Western world, they actually I think it's a cultural thing that's passed down, like you know, for for the parents. I know they grew up in households that were like that, and they're just kind of doing the same thing moving forward. I think also one of the reasons why it's not explained is because maybe a lot of people don't really have a clear definition of what spirituality is, absolutely, right? Like how we define spirituality is basically religions or what, like then practices, right? But is that really a spirituality? Exactly, yeah, and then I think for those of us who are more uh driven towards truth, and like especially at this time of age, uh, truth is the most important thing. Everyone wants truth more so than illusion or lies or deception, or and religion can be used for that, it can be used for illusion and deception, and it can make you worship something that is outside of yourself rather than conjure the energy from within yourself.

Redefining spirituality beyond religion

SPEAKER_00 8:52

What is your definition of spirituality?

SPEAKER_08 8:54

Well, for me, spirit, I like I kind of really resonated with the more Native American approach with it, which is spirit is the breath. Because even at one point when we have that personal experience, how do you share your spirituality then with others? And you know, if you have your own unique experience, you can't really bring everybody in on that because it's you, it's and nobody can be inside of your own vessel, you know.

SPEAKER_05 9:20

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_08 9:20

But the breath is something that we all share, and the breath is something we all have in common, you know. And so I think that I always go back to the air we breathe is the spirit we intake, and then when we exhale, we create with our voices and what we decide to express, then it becomes a fully shared experience. Whereas religions did figure out a way to get everyone together to follow one thing. Yeah, there's different interpretations of how the religions used, and some people use it in a really positive way. Uh, it impacts many. I know many people who've turned to religion and it completely transformed their lives uh while they were going through different challenges and whatnot.

SPEAKER_00 10:04

And I know for others it caused a lot of trauma and a lot of uh distrust in there's actually stats around that right now that there's a big wave of people coming back to either religion or spirituality and starting to reconnect with that. Have

The search for real connection

SPEAKER_00 10:18

you noticed some of these challenges and why people come like your clients coming to you?

SPEAKER_08 10:21

I think for the most part, the biggest issue is community and authentic connection. That is the biggest thing, is that most people feel isolated and they don't really know how to share what they believe in without feeling attacked or judged, and that puts a big wall of fear like uh around the heart with connecting with people, you know. Absolutely. Yeah, as soon as they feel part of a community, then you're seen by the whole, and then you feel like you're again part of a family, you know, and that makes a big difference.

SPEAKER_03 10:55

Is there any belief that you had in during your childhood that you've changed as you've started becoming more aware and giving your own definition to spirituality?

SPEAKER_08 11:04

Yeah, I think like it's always been transforming gradually. I think at one point it was really a search. But for me, I always I was always more just purpose-driven, like I wanted to make a difference in the world. I was always inspired by a quote from Gandhi that goes, If you want to be a change, if you want to see a change in the world, be the change. That always stuck with me big time. So I just always stuck with that narrative. And I was like, Well, if you know I want it to be a kinder world, well, maybe I'll be kind, you know, and see what where that takes

Music as emotional release

SPEAKER_08 11:36

me.

SPEAKER_03 11:36

What would you say you've started doing that was to the service of others in your life?

SPEAKER_08 11:43

Like I know you you were into a music journey at some point, so I think it was in music production, actually, like being a producer and having artists come. I remember there was this one artist, she came, she was a makeup artist, and she wanted to sing. And I was like, Yeah, sure, let's try to make some tracks together. She started singing, it was an incredible heavenly voice. I was like, Are you kidding me? Like, that's all hidden inside. But I knew what I loved spending my time on, and that for me was my saving grace because I knew that I love spending time creating, that's when I feel most connected. I don't know why, I don't know what it is. There's something inside of me that connects with this, so I just went that path.

SPEAKER_00 12:22

When you're creating from your soul or your spirit, it's such a big difference or outcome compared to um when someone is creating to kind of achieve something or approve something. Yeah. But when they're creating from that deep part of who they are, acting on your passion, yeah, and your gifts, your passion, that what lights you up, like that's connected to that deep part. It's magic happens. Like you really feel that emotion or that experience that um that it's meant to create. Do you have any um I guess methodology or approach or philosophy around your mu music production?

SPEAKER_08 12:57

Well, for me, the music production is really based off of my own personal life experiences. Like I started going to music because I had difficulty with certain emotions. I had difficulty, like I had difficulty connecting with other people. I had a lot of social anxiety, I had a lot of emotions that I wasn't even sure how to work with, and I wasn't really given the tools growing up with it. So I had to discover it, and I found that going to music helped me feel, helped me feel what was going on. Like that just came out of me.

SPEAKER_02 13:29

Or and I was like, oh you felt like you were suppressing a lot.

SPEAKER_08 13:34

There was suppression, I think so. It just unconsciously I wasn't aware. Um, but yeah, bringing it to the music helped me feel and helped me understand or helped me release.

SPEAKER_02 13:44

So creative outlet.

SPEAKER_08 13:46

Exactly. So creative outlets is so important because you let it out in a certain way. You don't want to be dumping on other people, like everything, you know.

SPEAKER_00 13:54

No, I honestly I'm sure a lot of us are so grateful for music because I do have these cryfests where I just I want to cry and I must set up my my setting so I would bring some tissue paper, some candles, nice blanky, and then I turn on the saddest music. And it's like you know, you know, like love, lovey, dovey music, and I just allow myself to just ball. And thanks to the music, is it sets that tone, that setting, and it brings in that mood that helps you get there.

SPEAKER_03 14:25

Exactly.

The near death experience in the car

SPEAKER_03 14:26

Would you say you've always used music for the good of a community, or in the beginning was more towards like a self-serving way?

SPEAKER_08 14:38

For me, it was in the beginning, it was self-serving, absolutely. It was more like I need to process this. I didn't even know I was processing though. First, it was just like I want to be a music producer and I want to have the label, I want to be like Timbaland, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was going that path. And I was really motivated. I would get up really early, I would do this, I would do the practices, I would get into the skill set of it, and I would really push, push, push, push. And I wanted to break through and and prove myself that I am worthy of like this and that. And like eventually I would burn out. And I had an incident that occurred in my life where it just completely uh gave me a rebirth and gave me a whole new perspective about how to respond better to my own reality versus trying to prove something.

SPEAKER_01 15:29

Let's talk about that a little bit.

SPEAKER_08 15:31

Basically, so I had a peanut allergy, I had a burger, a veggie burger, and I was sitting in my car, and I didn't realize I had some kind of nuts, and I started to go into an anaphylactic shock. So anaphylactic shock means you're kind of your lungs are swelling up, you can't breathe, you feel itchy, you get hives. So I was in the car and I was like, okay, what am I gonna do? Like, this is happening. I don't have the thing on me, the epi pen on me.

SPEAKER_03 15:58

But you knew you were allergic to peanut butter.

SPEAKER_08 16:00

Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I knew what was going on. Uh, so it was either I could drive myself to the hospital or drive myself back home or wait for an ambulance. You know, so it's like if I drive myself back home, then I gotta find the thing, and I gotta do the thing, and then I gotta call an ambulance. I was like, okay. Or you know, I call the ambulance, who knows when they're gonna get here. And so I was like, okay, I'll just go. So I just started driving, and um, yeah, it's just started getting more and more intense, couldn't breathe, and then eventually everything just went into this slow motion. And uh yeah, I was just sitting there and I just had this vision of something sitting next to me in the passenger seat, and it was like, look, like you can you can pull over and don't worry about it, or you can keep on driving and don't worry about it. And I was like, Okay, okay. So everything I was worried about, all the things I wanted to accomplish, everything that I thought was in my way was just a choice. And like, here I was, I have a choice right now in this moment. I can choose life or death, you know, and like what am I choosing? And in that moment, I was like, okay, I'm just gonna choose life. So I just everything kind of came back, and then the car started moving faster again, and everything is like the reality started speeding up again. And I got myself to the hospital just in time, and I was able to get revived. And since that moment, I realized that it's all about choice. What am I choosing right here, right now? That's all there is. There's only right here, right now. And so, what I choose right here, right now, that's gonna impact everything else that occurs in my day-to-day life.

SPEAKER_00 17:44

Can I ask you who chose? Like when you say I could choose life or death, who was choosing? Is it you the souk or you the spirit?

SPEAKER_08 17:52

Because I find like this is me the spirit, definitely. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because the other I think for me at that time, I was also a little bit depressed, and I was trying to push through, it was overloaded a little bit, and trying to prove myself, didn't really feel seen or heard, and so many woundings.

SPEAKER_00 18:09

Okay, so that was also a very low point in your life as well when that happened.

SPEAKER_08 18:12

I mean, it like it was low, and at the same time, it was one of the most like vital times of my life too.

SPEAKER_02 18:19

Duality is often very present, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 18:22

But you know, I still had the ability to keep going, and I was just I'm just I'm just the type of person who will keep pushing through, and I think the soul did definitely take over, and it was a moment in my life where my soul was like, hey, listen, like we have more to do here. There's other stuff going on, and we need to change your perspective a little bit, and uh these opport it was an opportunity to really change everything and how I perceived life.

SPEAKER_02 18:53

You mentioned you saw, felt something in the passenger seat. Was it you coming out of that? What was that?

SPEAKER_08 19:04

I think it was death. It was very much like, hey, like you know, you're at a you're at a checkpoint here. You can if you can eject if you want.

SPEAKER_02 19:12

And you heard or you felt out I I heard and saw next to me.

SPEAKER_08 19:17

That was my experience of it. Yeah. For me, the way I perceived it, it it looked like a silhouette, but a mirror in the in the reality. Have you ever seen something like you know, something that looks like a reflection? Yeah, it was like that, but it had a body, it had a physical shape.

What changed after the experience

SPEAKER_03 19:33

After that experience, what was the first thing that you did?

SPEAKER_08 19:36

Oh man, I made music right away. I remember the next day, I was just making new tracks, and I was like, oh yeah, I'm really gonna go for it now. And and there was no more holding back of anything, you know, and everything I was passionate about, I went for, I traveled, even if I didn't have any money. I would just go and book one-way tickets and spend months in Asia. And I was like, I want to understand my soul, I want to understand who I am, and um not feel like how I was feeling before. So any external outcome became obsolete to me because it was more like, well, like, you know, that's all gonna go. It doesn't even matter. So it really helped me connect with the moment a lot more. And once again, that deepened my experience of the flow state even more. I think that what's really important is the choice element, is that whenever, because things hard things will come in life, and I've had other challenges that have happened in my life since then. But the ability to choose that, okay, who am I gonna be in this situation? Not necessarily what am I gonna do, but who am I being in this situation? Very big big point. Yeah, that completely shifted uh my state of being in how I decide to perceive certain situations and the meanings we create. Because we are creators, like we've been talking about, but we create the meaning in the moment, we create how we decide to see things, and even how we decide to attach to certain things, or when we feel an emotion, it's not who we are, it's a passing thing, you know. So it brought a lot of uh new direction for me, and in and I I just felt called to be someone who chooses to live that way. And by virtue of living that way, a lot of people would come to me and start asking me. I always had that kind of mentor energy, so I think people were just naturally gravitated towards wanting to know more information or had questions who wanted to learn more about themselves and how they can start learning more about themselves. And I yeah, it just kind of opened the doors in that regard.

SPEAKER_03 21:49

You know, when you were saying before your approach to music was more self centered towards your own benefit, you know, when you're creating from a place of free me, me. There's some sort of ego that's actually right. And would you say that ego got shattered after this experience that you had?

SPEAKER_08 22:07

Or well, yeah, definitely, because it's like, well, like here, I am thinking I'm all this and that, and I'm a little peanut's gonna kill me. Humbling, humbling. I find the ego when it shatters, it's always a humbling experience. But I think also it's the practices that came afterwards that were really important, working with teachers, working with facilitators.

SPEAKER_02 22:33

Tell us a little bit more about yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 22:36

Like there was this one healer I met when I was in Indonesia, uh, maybe about six months after that experience. And I went to him and I I just he just told me to sit down. And I sat down and he held my thumbs for maybe like 15, 20 minutes, held my thumbs and stared at me in the eyes for 15 minutes straight. Didn't say a single word to me. Wow. And I just sat there and was just breathing and breathing, and then eventually, after seven minutes, this heaviness started coming out of me, started coming out of me, and I started feeling so tired and exhausted. And then that night I think I slept like 18 hours or something, and uh the next day I was light as a feather, and it was really just the power of pure presence. Wow, so

The healing power of being seen

SPEAKER_08 23:26

it taught me that. I think it was just emotion, like heavy emotion that was lingering for me. It was a lot of grief, like a lot of grief uh was lingering in my system that had to leave, and it wasn't necessarily a deep cry, but it was just just a huge yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:44

It wasn't necessarily grief because someone passed away.

SPEAKER_08 23:49

Well, for me, I think I had a lot of grief from past lives. Like I have memories of those that were still yeah, yeah, yeah. That was still like betrayal and all these things that were lingering in my system. And like in hindsight, when I'm looking at it now, I'm like, yeah, that's what I was going through. And also it was a teaching point, it was a teaching point about the power of pure presence and how of stillness, yeah, of really, really anchoring in deeply and being rooted in yourself and what how that affects others, and it that brought me to the understanding of the our brainwave states, and so this guy was so deep in an alpha theta state that when I came into it, it brought me into that deep state.

SPEAKER_02 24:33

Were you looking at each other?

SPEAKER_08 24:34

Yeah, and you're holding thumbs.

SPEAKER_03 24:41

I was trying to imagine it as you do the person just holding and then you still, but also you stay 15 minutes. I can only imagine because already sitting down with yourself for a couple minutes, there's so many thoughts that you have to try to get rid of, and so many things going through your mind. And when you're looking through someone's eyes for that long, you know, you pass the stage of being uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_08 25:04

There's something deeper that connects you with that person, exactly, because you're yeah, you're and I think being seen by another person fully is so healing for people, and a lot of us try to do the healing work by ourselves, like be with yourself, figure out your thoughts, your emotions, etc. But being seen is like that's where all the release happens.

SPEAKER_00 25:24

It's beautiful. I actually had a question before we continue with the you said that you that energy that left was from your past lives.

SPEAKER_08 25:32

I think so. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:33

How do you how did you know that?

SPEAKER_08 25:35

Did he tell you or I think later, because that was a lingering thing, is like this heaviness that would come on. I did later realize that it's like it's the emotion of shame and grief, you know. So where it came from, I guess the meaning that helped me really try to understand what this emotion was that I gave to it is from a past life, you know, and I because it was nothing that had happened in my current lifetime that had anything to do with it. And um, I'm sure I could unpack it even more and be like, oh, childhood, this moment, that moment. Um did you have any psychic readings that specifically told you or talked to you about past lives, or you just have a general understanding and I've had like visceral memories where in my dreams and in my meditations, where I was transported to these moments, and for me it was like that.

SPEAKER_03 26:26

Would you say that you've taken the lessons that you've learned through this um experience with them and use that in your practices and how you help people today?

SPEAKER_08 26:36

Absolutely. And how do you do that? So when my first sessions began, I would just sit in presence with people and I would just like would you hold their thumbs? I would not hold their thumbs. I would not hold their thumbs. I think the thumbs was really about uh releasing fire, yeah. Right, so it's an elemental process that it came out from that. Uh I needed more fire to come out. But now, yeah, being in stillness, being in pure presence with a person is really important for them to one feel safe with you, and two to allow their authenticity to shine through and then to be seen in that space. Ultimately, I find that pure presence is a space of love, you know, like most people just need love in in the dimension or area that they're struggling in. It just it just requires some real attention and time and love and yeah.

How Sukh helps people find flow

SPEAKER_03 27:27

And how would you describe what you do today and how you help people?

SPEAKER_08 27:31

So it's a five-stage process I lead people through. Stage one is called see yourself, where we get to really identify the certain narratives that a person has been programmed with. Uh, see yourself is a fun stage because you're looking at what you're doing and your own patterns in real time and you're understanding that okay, I why am I doing all these things? I don't necessarily want to do this anymore. I don't want to practice this pattern anymore. And so once they identify it, then we move to stage two, which is a stage of power. Power is about reclaiming your ability to choose what you're choosing in the moment. And we do that by teaching an individual how to bring their brainwave states into an alpha theta zone. What does that mean, alpha and theta, for those who don't know? Yeah, for sure. So you have beta and gamma. Beta and gamma are really like fast moving uh brainwave states. So when you're when you're let's say you're driving or you're you're doing a lot of things or you're writing papers, like you're just doing a lot of kind of mental activity. So that's that's what that is. And then alpha and theta state is when you're you're really in the zone with what you're doing, like you're you're connected with it, you're fully engaged with it, you're not thinking about yourself anymore. So to teach a person what triggers those specific alpha theta states is unique to each individual, and that's what we start working with in stage two is like, what are the things that get you in that space that you're fully engaged with your moment? Some people are bored, they don't really like what they're doing, and they're trying to make themselves like it. And so we find the authentic thing that actually lights you up, and then once you're in that space, then we move to stage three, which is about inspiration. How can we expand upon that? How can we make these visions and dreams a reality? What is it that we need to build? Is it like you know, is it a is it a community hub? Is it uh a wellness center? Is it is it being a singer or actress, like whatever the whatever the thing is, then we we find the right tools to get them there. And then stage four is about thrive. That's when you're fully immersed in that activity now. It becomes a part of who you are. You're moving through you're moving through life with the ability to get yourself into flow when you want. And then lastly, stage five is wholeness. So the wholeness space is where you fully accepted the parts of you that you don't like, and then from there, once you have that full acceptance, then I mean it's just you're just free.

SPEAKER_03 30:12

Yeah. Would you say because when you said um Alpha in Theta State, I'm thinking about as an artist, when you are in this creation space, especially for music, music people, songwriters, and you become one with the artistry, where uh some people could use external help, such as whether psychedelics or um different like substances and stuff, but regardless of your the tools that help you, the resources that you use, you become one with the craft, and nothing else exists. And there's it's almost as if you're in a meditation state because all the thoughts are removed and there's this oneness that happens. Would you call that an alpha and theater state?

SPEAKER_08 30:58

Exactly, because you're not thinking about yourself, yeah. So the moment you're thinking about who you are or your own, like your own habits or anything else, yeah. That's all out the wind. Now you're fully engaged, and it requires challenge. Like, yeah, like you know, even athletes, for example, like Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, those guys are all about flow states. When you do get in flow state, your brain releases all the best chemicals, like endorphins, dopamine, uh, oxytocin, all these chemicals are getting released in your brain when you're in the zone and you're fully engaged with what you love doing. And ultimately, I think that most people want to feel alive in their life.

SPEAKER_00 31:36

If someone hasn't like let's say they don't know what being in a flow state means, and they don't know if they've ever experienced it in their life before, how would you what would you tell them to get started?

SPEAKER_08 31:46

I would well, I would say, when was the last time you did something where you completely lost track of time? Yeah, that's a good way to do it. Just start there, and then it's like even I've struggled explaining this to people in my own journey, but like I now it's just pretty much like, you know, those times you're working on something, you don't know where time went, or you're having a conversation, and it just flew by. Those are the types of moments we want to create in a person's life. Like, how can you create more of those moments, those pockets of time where you're so connected with what you're doing?

SPEAKER_00 32:20

Yeah, and I would, especially with the work that I do, so I help people to discover their spiritual gifts or their sacred gifts. And often when they're tapped into that space where they're using their gifts, it's because they're being very present. That's it. And in that moment, it's where their gifts are activated. Sometimes it's the creative, so there are people who have the gift of music, the gift of craftsmanship, and they get really hands-on with their work, and that is where they get into what you would call the full state. But there are other people who get into that state with other people. That they'll give their gifts are activated with someone else being in front of them who needs that gift.

SPEAKER_08 32:54

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 32:55

But what's most important to get into that for the work that I do is being fully present in the moment where, like you said, you're not it's not about you anymore, but it's about either that space or about that whole whatever whatever's happening in that moment where the you know you're guided exactly the things that you need or to speak to the things that need to be said.

SPEAKER_08 33:17

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 33:18

Can you tell us more a little bit about like what happens when your clients get into the flow states? What kind of things that happen for them or what were created?

SPEAKER_08 33:28

Well, yeah, like there's there's one artist I work with, I've worked with, and she's she creates these large, beautiful structures uh and places them all over the world. And so she really told me that her learning about getting into flow and finding these unique techniques ultimately taught her how to feel safe in her own body. So then and like that really opens up a discussion about the nervous system and how when we're in fight or flight, you can't really get the flow. So you gotta find ways that will, you know, you gotta find anchors that make you feel safe enough so that you can go and get it, get yourself into a zone fully. So, for example, if someone is dealing with large crowds or they're afraid of being judged or being seen, etc., then you have to work with that fear, right? Face the fear of like, okay, what is that fear? Why is that even there? You know, because most fears aren't even real. So a lot of the work is like, how do we how do we match the fear? How do we get through the fear? What is that fear trying to tell you?

SPEAKER_02 34:29

It's on the other side of fear.

SPEAKER_08 34:30

That's it. Because fear will always be there, it it serves a purpose, right? And and so it's just like getting our logical mind on board with it.

SPEAKER_00 34:39

Are

Why most people don’t really listen

SPEAKER_00 34:40

there practices that you would recommend to help us practice that to get over fear or to be in pure presence?

SPEAKER_08 34:46

Yeah, I think the number one thing is listening. So when most people listen, they listen with one ear and the other ear is listening to the inner voice of what they're gonna respond with. That's yeah, the anticipation of what you're gonna say. But when you use both ears to listen in the moment, then you you don't have space to think about yourself.

SPEAKER_03 35:06

And be present into the listening, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 35:08

That's right.

SPEAKER_03 35:09

And we can catch ourselves if we really pay attention to it. We can catch ourselves in conversation where the person is talking, but you're anticipating what the person is gonna say, and you're already preparing the response, so we're not fully present into the listening. It's like the you're listening and looking for confirmation to what you're about to say, and then the person ends, and then you jump right away instead of holding space and listen and processing what's being said. So yeah,

Grief underneath anxiety

SPEAKER_03 35:36

when you have people that come to you for help and they either stuck, they don't know what they want to do, or which career path to choose. What would you say is the energetic signature that you usually feel when these people come? Do you feel like they come with a sense of anxiety, loss? What's the energetic?

SPEAKER_08 35:57

Uh for the most part, it's grief. It's unprocessed grief. And like the other emotions tie in, like shame or guilt, those tie in too. But mostly it's grief because when you're no longer holding on to something that happened, because most part, you know, people are stuck in something that happened, and then it's hard to like move forward from that. But until they're able to fully access that grief and let the emotion flow, then everything else flows, you know. Even anxiety, anxiety works as a layer on top of the grief. So, like anxiety is there protecting you from feeling the thing that's in there because we can't just walk around and just suddenly just bawling, you know. Yeah, no one wants to do that.

SPEAKER_03 36:44

Have you ever felt a presence guiding you or helping you when you are helping people?

SPEAKER_08 36:48

Absolutely, absolutely. That's the channel happens, channel opens, definitely. Uh like for me, the way I see it is it's the it's God, like it's energy that's just moving through, and it's the thing that connects us all. And uh, whatever belief or meaning you want to give it, you can give it. But for me, it's like when I'm sitting with somebody, like Suks is not here, it's just I'm the vessel and I'm here to be of service to that person, and I just have in mind their highest evolution, their highest potential. I keep that in my mind. I just, and no matter what they're going through, I always keep in my mind of always try to see a person's higher self, um, and be compassionate and empathetic about what they're going through, and then deliver uh what it is that they

Why people struggle to be themselves

SPEAKER_08 37:36

need, you know. I have a question for you guys. So, yes, based off you know, real world situations here and and real spirituality in everyday life, what do you think most people are struggling with the most right now?

SPEAKER_02 37:49

The permission to show up as your authentic self and feel like you belong.

SPEAKER_08 37:55

Belonging.

SPEAKER_02 37:56

Belonging. Because a lot of the times, you know, there's so many things happening in the world that are challenging the way that society is and the way that we function in the world. And people go through changes, so we are not necessarily the same person that we were a year ago or three years ago. But do we know how to show up as that new self? The person that I was is now different. Can I show up as that new person? Am I going to fit in?

SPEAKER_03 38:25

I have a different perspective. I think uh people are missing a deeper understanding of who they are. That means uh being, being, to be. Because in the society that we live in today, we're focused on doing so we can have. But who do you want to be? Who are you underneath the societal titles? Who are you as a human being? Right. So, like let's say you ask someone, who are you? Oh, I'm a doctor, no, that's what you do. Who are you? And there's a there's a blink for a lot of people.

SPEAKER_00 39:00

Yeah, and just adding to that, I think there are a lot of people who are very ingrained in the daily grind, the daily life. Sometimes they have these polls where there's there has to be more to life than this, but then it's because we're so in this environment that it's hard to get ourselves out of that. And I think like these stories that we're hearing helps them, you know, get inspiration or hear that there are other ways and there's other paths that you can take. It doesn't have to awareness, yeah, hear these inspirational stories, so it it doesn't have to be this way. That's where I started my journey, you know. I was like very much in that human experience of like this is what I was been I've been told, and this is what I have to go through. But I always felt like there has to be more. So I was searching for this type of people and conversations, and I think there are still a lot of people out there who are continuing to search.

SPEAKER_08 39:49

Interesting. This is very cool. So the the theme, I see like a theme between the three of your guys is is the the idea of permission. Because permission is like, like you were saying, I'm in this new season, I want to be this new version. Yes, you know, and then you're saying like the definitions of having to do all these things, but then you know, giving yourself permission to be who you are versus being that label, how will you be perceived then? And the perception changes, like when you do decide to switch how you're gonna present yourself into the world and how people will experience you and see you. So, how can a person give themselves more permission, more of themselves, like more of the time? How can they give themselves more permission to be that way?

SPEAKER_02 40:39

So conversations, finding people, yeah. There's a reason why I think podcasts are on the rise. People want to be able to talk more about their experiences, about what they're going through, so we can relate to each other more and more. It's not just a trend, and more and more people want to be able to discuss uh things that we you may not bring up at the dinner table with your family necessarily, and sometimes not even as your friends.

SPEAKER_03 41:08

Yeah. How about you? I'm curious to hear you because I love the questions. It was a good one too.

SPEAKER_08 41:14

I was curious too to see what you guys think. Absolutely. I think a person can give themselves more permission to be themselves, having the real conversations from that place, and uh just seeking out connections that actually nourish you and give you energy. And it's also important to know which like what gives you energy and what drains you, and also be aware of what you're consuming and then what you're creating, right? Because we're all creators and we're all consumers, yeah. So whatever we're deciding to consume will influence us in a variety of ways. Absolutely. But if you know yourself, then I think you can develop a better way. But the permission component is fascinating to me, yeah, because we have rules that we impose upon ourselves since a very young age, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:06

I think uh for me a huge piece or would definitely help is your environment. Because in certain environments, who you are, what you believe in is just like much more valued, and in other environments, whether it's the people, the beliefs around there, or what people like what's there, it's just not the place for you.

SPEAKER_08 42:26

It's so true. Yeah, we've a little bit of a.

SPEAKER_02 42:28

This made me think of something. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_08 42:29

Yeah, because it was the same thing for me too. Like when I was in environments that were you know thinking in the same way that I wanted to think, or and they would value the perspective and they would add to it and it would get enhanced, those situations were way more fruitful versus the ones where you're being judged or someone's putting negativity on it.

SPEAKER_03 42:51

Yeah.

What it means to live on purpose

SPEAKER_03 42:52

I have two interesting questions for you. Okay. Would you say that Suk is living on purpose today?

SPEAKER_08 42:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 43:00

And how would you describe your own definition of living on purpose?

SPEAKER_08 43:06

Oh man, that's a great question. I think that living on purpose, I'm really just really being myself and following what lights me up and and what brings me joy. And also it matches a greater vision of certain things that I want to build and how I want to leave a certain legacy here. I think that having a vision of your life and having a vision of where you want to go uh is an important component to maybe a legacy you want to live, but being on purpose, I think, is like living the moment on purpose, like really being purposeful and intentional about how you're showing up in everyday moments. And that naturally just creates wonderful connections, like me even being here with you guys today, you know?

SPEAKER_03 43:52

And if you see your life as uh in what you're doing today as a soul mission rather than a care career. Um, would you say there's any future endeavors that awaits you into this journey that you are you know doing flow mastery? Absolutely, absolutely.

SPEAKER_08 44:09

Well, we're expanding into technology and tools with technology that can help a person achieve flow state in a faster way. Um not that I'm trying to rush the whole process. You're in the present moment.

SPEAKER_04 44:24

Let's get in flow now.

SPEAKER_03 44:26

Yeah, you know, I truly believe that time is an illusion created by human beings. There's no such thing as time, the only time is the present. Often we're reflecting on you know past memories, but what you're living through is always the present. So when you are thinking about the past, it's your version in the present and the definition or the experience you're having with something that happened, but you're having it in the present. So there's no such thing as the past or the future, right? That's why I think it's so vital to be present because everything that you create from the sense of being present, how can I change something today? How can I affect the decisions that I make today? You know, because you may think about tomorrow, but tomorrow doesn't exist exactly. You know, you can't not borrow the time that you don't have any control over. That's right.

SPEAKER_02 45:22

Um speaking of being on purpose, I think this podcast is definitely a manifestation of us being on purpose. Something that we want to bring to the world, these conversations. And I know for myself I've had moments where am I relevant? Is this important? But at the end of the day, what's important is what lights me up. So it doesn't matter. Being on purpose is that I'm happy to do what I'm doing, I'm following my passion, we are following our passion, and um the right people will be attracted to that.

SPEAKER_08 46:01

Exactly, exactly.

Self-acceptance as the way forward

SPEAKER_03 46:04

So if you could transmit one message to our listeners, what would be that message from an energetic level, and what would you want it to awaken in them?

SPEAKER_08 46:16

Yeah, I think self-acceptance is the number one thing that comes through. Self-acceptance and how you define how you love yourself is dictated through the actions you choose to take every single day. And it's just like when you have emotions or things that are coming up and down, like the way you decide to create meaning about it is up to you. Like you create the story, you create the meaning, and the emotions are just telling you what's for you and what is not for you. But it's never a reflection of like you're either good or bad, because good or bad changes in the moment, you know what I mean? So I think self-acceptance is the number one thing that I would want to say for anyone listening is that the more you accept yourself, the more you accept what lifts you up, and also the more you accept what drains you, it will help you to navigate your reality with more clarity, with more purpose, with more intention, and that'll set you free from the stuff that might be creating suffering in your life.

SPEAKER_03 47:22

Absolutely. Yeah, I so agree with that. And if one of our listeners agrees with what you said, but they still feel stuck and they need your help, how could they find you? How could they get in touch with you?

SPEAKER_08 47:32

Yeah, absolutely. Well, there's a site called learnflowmastery.com, so you can learn and get the tools you need and learn certain practices that we've worked with people for over the last 10 years and have helped many people all over the world find their flow. There's also digital programs we can get, so you don't have to break your wallet either. You can get things that will help you uh on a really easy level. They can find me on Instagram, got posting content over there quite often, and uh there's a YouTube channel as well, but everything is on learnflowmastery.com.