Rewriting the Narrative: From Workplace Trauma to Healing and Hope

What if losing your job wasn’t the end of your story, but the beginning of reclaiming your voice and identity?

In this deeply human and eye-opening conversation, we explore how workplace trauma, identity loss, and unexpected transitions shape the way we see ourselves and our place in the world. Through powerful storytelling and lived experiences, this episode reframes job loss not as failure, but as a moment of transformation, reflection, and renewal.

My guest, Suzanne Vosburg, Ph.D., researcher, writer, and co-author of Betrayed by Work: Women’s Stories of Trauma, Healing, and Hope After Being Fired, shares the inspiration behind this important work. She opens up about the emotional realities of being let go, the often-unspoken grief that follows, and how storytelling can create connection, validation, and healing.

Through the voices of women who have walked this path, Suzanne highlights how loss can lead to reinvention, and how community and shared experiences can help rebuild confidence and purpose.

These insights are especially meaningful for professionals navigating career uncertainty, leaders supporting others through transition, and anyone seeking to turn a difficult chapter into a powerful new beginning.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• The Hidden Impact of Job Loss:
  Why being let go is not just a professional shift, but an emotional and identity-level experience.
• From Isolation to Connection:
  How shared stories remind us that we are not alone and create space for healing.
• Reclaiming Your Narrative:
  Why losing a role doesn’t define your worth, and how to rebuild with intention.
• The Power of Safe Spaces:
  How community, conversation, and vulnerability support transformation and growth.
• Hope After Disruption:
  How women have navigated trauma, pivoted careers, and created new paths forward.

This episode is an invitation to reframe endings as beginnings, honor your experiences, and reconnect with your resilience.

If you’ve ever faced uncertainty, loss, or a major life transition, this conversation will remind you that there is always a path forward — and often, something even greater waiting on the other side.

Connect with Donna McDine

Website: https://energyofserenity.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/donnamcdine/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/energyofserenity/
Instagram (Reiki): https://www.instagram.com/energy_of_serenity_reiki/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DonnaMcDineEnergyofSerenity

Connect with Suzanne Vosburg, Ph.D.

Her Book: https://www.amazon.com/Betrayed-Work-Womens-Stories-Healing/dp/1642505641
Website: https://www.suzannevosburg.com
LinkedIn:   https://www.linkedin.com/in/suzannevosburg/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/suzannevosburg27
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/suzannevosburg/ 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

It's really important to have a positive, supportive inner voice and to talk to themselves in a way that's supportive. My brother went to a peace meeting recently at the UN about peace and world peace. And one of the concepts there is to have world peace, we have to have peace within ourselves. I mean, that's where it starts within ourselves. Absolutely. We get our inner peace comes with, in part, the words that we tell ourselves.

SPEAKER_03 0:31

Hi, I am Donna McDein, and welcome to the Energy of Serenity podcast. Here we unleash empowerment through the power of the word. Join me and my guests as we share stories, tools, and insights to help you feel grounded and aligned. Let's dive in. Welcome, Donna McDein here from the Energy of Serenity Podcast. I am over the moon excited to welcome Suzanne Vosberg here tonight, and we are going to be chatting all about her beautiful book. So welcome, Suzanne. How are you?

SPEAKER_02 1:08

Thank you. It's so nice to see you. And I just learned this is a I have pronounced your name incorrectly. I've always said it McDean. It's McDonne.

SPEAKER_03 1:19

Many people pronounce it that way. So absolutely no worries.

SPEAKER_02 1:23

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 1:24

Before we get underway, I want to formally introduce you to the Energy Serenity Podcast listeners. So Suzanne Vosberg is a PhD. She works as an associate research director. She's also a freelance writer and photographer, and is part of a teaching team that delivers a research design and analysis class for research fellows as part of their postdoctoral and post-medical school training. Fascinating. I never knew that last part about you.

SPEAKER_02 2:00

So artists by day, artist by night. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_03 2:11

Oh, delighted. And you are the co-author of Betrayed by Work Woman's Stories of Trauma, Healing, and Hope After Being Fired. Beautiful topic. Beautiful. So tell me about and the listeners, the journey and your collaboration on this, and why you ventured into this unbelievable topic.

SPEAKER_02 2:42

Well, it's a lot of taboo. And I have to, you know, shout out to my co-author, Julia Erickson, who uh is not here today, but she is awesome. And um it's a difficult topic. Um, and we really learned a lot in writing this book. And I guess I would say, first of all, I had suddenly been let go from a job that I'd had for years, uh, that I had built my life and identity around. Really, I had little kids at the time, and I was bereft after that happened. And it was just, you know, a completely shattering experience. And um after some time passed, and I got up the floor, got up off the floor, um I began to wonder, you know, what the heck had just happened. Um, I mean, you know, I've not had I haven't had a cushy life. I think we've probably all had, you know, issues that have happened. So it's not like I'm a strange, I'm sorry, I'm fixing my screens or it's not like I'm a stranger to difficult things, but this one was really um hard. And um it this experience just it brought me to my knees. And a woman, a beloved person in my life, I spoke to this time, told me, you know, after this has happened, well, she you know, everyone that she knew over a certain age, and I I can't remember if it's 40 or 50, but everybody had let been let go at least once. It's like this is news to me. I did not know this, and why the heck hadn't anybody told me that?

SPEAKER_03 4:08

Um, you know, just kind of maybe prepare yourself a little bit that it's a possibility.

SPEAKER_02 4:14

Yeah, and and why wasn't that uh you know openly discussed? And if it's happening to everyone, it doesn't happen to everyone, but if it's a common experience or more common than you know than we think it is, then why weren't we why was there never any sort of indication about planning for this or just it's never discussed? And it's uh so it felt like a topic in big picture, it felt like a topic that deserved more attention sort of from the ground up level. Um and my co-author, Julia Erickson, is a transformative executive coach and um amazing presence. And when we talked about this notion um about how difficult this experience is and how underrepresented it is in our general consciousness. And you know, usually if you hear something like that, you're like, what happened? What'd that person do? Um, she she got it and agreed, and that's how we started working on this topic. Um, it's it's a it's a I'll talk about the taboo part, but I also do want to, I love the energy of serenity idea of uplifting, because one of the things we really wanted to do in this, it's a great word to focus on. Um uh, and you focus on it, Donna, which is awesome. And we were really concerned when when we wrote this book about, you know, people are, oh, those bitchy women, you know, or they've got an axe to grind, or you know, who are they? And it was a real concern that we had because it was not the case at all. We really wanted to, the book to be uplifting, and we wanted to um share a message of strength with women about how to uplift yourself after a difficult circumstance. And the the other real message was you're not alone. And I mean, I think that that's amazing.

SPEAKER_03 6:03

That's amazing because just hearing that other people have walked that similar journey, it gives you that comfort that, oh, it's not just me. Like, what did I do wrong?

unknown 6:16

Right.

SPEAKER_03 6:16

So I love that. I love that you really cultivated that. And I know when I read the book myself, it was it was I you had like an array of emotions, even though you weren't those particular women that shared their stories, you had that wave of emotions where you felt, oh my gosh, wow, that really helped happen to them. But then how they navigated it and came through the other side is beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 6:44

That's thanks. That's and I guess I should back up and say that's what this book is about. Is so Julia and I we interviewed about 20 women. We found um, and mainly women, we initially were uh thinking actually of an anecdote, which I was recently telling a man, a friend of mine, a man about this book, and I led in with, Well, this experience is really hard for women. And he was like, It's hard for anybody. And I was like, Thank you. You know, and so we we did include women uh mainly because, well, we're women and we knew women, and it was, you know, sort of the easiest sort of um what do you call convenience sample of people to reach out to. But it it affects men, and it is, you know, and it is for men. But we did um reach out for women and we inter, we had a series of questions that we asked them. And the questions were about um how were you let go? What happened, what what led, what sort of led up to it, what happened in the process, and what did you do afterwards? And that was that's sort of the nature of of the book of the 20 odd chapters, and then we comment and you know, write and analyze and think and and and and stuff like that. But that's um that's what where we started from. And then we followed up as well. Then we little have a little you know blurb at the end in terms of what happened to um to the women afterwards, like after some time had passed.

SPEAKER_03 8:11

Right. And that's beautiful too, because because when almost you feel like you they've shared their story, and then you're like, but wait, what what happened with them? What like how did they recreate their lives? And what's amazing too is that some of the women didn't stay in the field that they're originally in and they recreated. And and it's such a beautiful, uplifting way of knowing that, yeah, when something so traumatic happens that you're identified by this, this is the way you're paying your bills. But you you can pivot and recreate. And but by sharing these stories and the book, it shows people, like you said earlier, you're not alone. So then it gives you this outreach to be able to make your own community and start doing your own new networking.

SPEAKER_01 9:06

Yeah, or your space.

SPEAKER_03 9:08

Yeah, and being in that comfortable, supportive, safe space to share what your journey's been is just incredible.

SPEAKER_02 9:18

Yeah, I would add there's not a lot of that. I'm just sorry to cut, sorry to cut you off. Go ahead. Sorry, first off.

SPEAKER_03 9:22

I did some thanking you for the beautiful story because really when people know that there's other places that they can turn to for assistance, it's incredible.

SPEAKER_02 9:33

It is, and there are not, there are still not a lot of places and people that women will tell you that they can talk to about things like this. So one of the um characteristics of this book is that uh most of the women are using anonymous names. And the reason is because they did not want some have industries that are very small, some still felt too ashamed to talk with us or just to, you know, to share. Um, some just didn't want to, some of the women that we talked to and reached out to didn't even want to talk to us uh because they just it was too raw, or they felt like they were, you know, they were in the process of trying to move or pivot or do, you know, other things. And it just they just were afraid.

SPEAKER_03 10:19

Right. And it's such and it's such a private, but almost a public feeling of being let go because all you co-workers, you're it's that uncomfortableness of it. And many times it's not something that the employee may or may have not done. It's just a restructuring of the company, and you were one of the unfortunate ones to be let go, but it's still so personal and so raw that I completely understand why they did not use their given names because uh you don't want to be labeled as oh, that she was the one that was let go from her job, and you don't want to come across as that you're this emotional woman that had to share her story, because unfortunately, there's still stigma on that when women share their story, yeah, and there's strength in sharing your story because yeah, yeah, and there it's like that old adage that a teacher would say to the classroom, don't be afraid to ask a question because there's other people in the classroom that are thinking the same thing. And when women realize that we can be more uplifting to one another and share our stories and how we came out on the other end, it really raises everyone up that's in that conversation.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:46

Yeah. And so when you were developing the the interview questions, were you very intentional with the type of words that you were using for them?

SPEAKER_02 12:00

Oh, that's a great question. Um yes, I would say um in the sense of trying to uh get down to the essence of what we wanted, of the types of information that we were really looking to seek out. Um, you know, what is it, the five W's or the six W's? I forget how many there are. Who, what, why, when, how, where, you know, we um six day uh how it's how's not a d but um we were very intentional about trying to capture these experiences in a way that made it clear um that we were approaching from a neutral perspective and that we really just wanted to know what happened uh because of this, because of this interest. Um it wasn't so that was we were very careful with the and what we did is we we actually most conversations just ended up being an interview where people were the women would just tell us the stories, and so we just you know keep going, keep going, you know, and and just type as much as we could and then and go back and and then edit them and then would share them again to just make sure that that we got it right and that this captured who they were. Sorry, I should say it was captured what happened to them in a way that they felt comfortable with, that it, you know, that it wasn't too identifying.

SPEAKER_03 13:18

Right. And that's beautiful. So it's you weren't only collaborating with your co-writer, you were collaborating with the women that you interviewed as well. So that they opened up that vein and let you in. They shared their story, and I love it that you did it more of a conversational with them, instead of being, okay, my first question is my second question, and I know myself it's more comfortable that way. Instead of okay, here are the 10 questions, you have to answer these, because then you almost feel like you're metaphor being very like robot about it. So that's beautiful because then it brings for your writing their energy into it because you're getting to know their personality.

SPEAKER_01 14:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 14:04

So it's beautiful how you interwove everything like that. I want to share with the listeners a beautiful um endorsement of your book by Dr. Mindy Thompson Full of Love. Is that how you okay full of love, yeah. And I love what she wrote. She said, Suzanne and Julia bravely call for a different kind of world, one in which we think and act from solidarity. Beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 14:34

Isn't that lovely?

SPEAKER_03 14:35

When you first received that feedback from her, how did that make you feel?

SPEAKER_02 14:42

Oh, that was beautiful. She wrote a beautiful forward. It's also it's a it's a great endorsement. It's for on the cover, but her forward is is beautiful, and boy, are we grateful to her for that because it is it's she got it. Um, and I think that it uh um I'm gonna circle back on that idea of getting it. Uh, but she really um that is exactly what we were trying to convey, which is in a sense, and this is gonna sound a little trite, and I apologize, but it's the way that I interpret that is that you have we are acting in ways that we are all connected, you know. And and I think that her call and and um acting in solidarity is acting that we are caring for others as we're caring for ourselves, and we're helping each other achieve our best. And I think that it is when we do that uh in at work and any other place um that we are it's it's putting aside the the me first mentality. Um you know, and uh uh Julia has a great phrase, me do it, which always pops into my mind. Um but it's it's really it's really saying to take a broader view uh of that and to say that you know what what we are all doing, we affect each other, and we all want we all want the same things. I mean, we all want a good job, we want to be treated fairly at our job, we want to be respected at our job, we don't want to be taken advantage of, we all want to provide for our families. Um, there's no difference in that, regardless of of what you're doing, really. And that sometimes that and I think that that sense of solidarity is often lost.

SPEAKER_03 16:35

Right. And it truly is, especially in the busy world that we live in with the news 24-7, the social media, the so-called that you're successful if you're busy 24-7.

SPEAKER_04 16:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:49

And pulling inward and really taking that time to know that there's more we have in common than we don't. Yeah, slowing down to our education may be different, we may be in a different field, but like you said, it goes back to that true essence. We all really, truly want the same thing. And and when you when you throw in understanding from the fellow human being, whether it's male or female, it doesn't matter. It changes that whole outlook at the job and personally as well. And it when that happens, it just it's like it's about time. People are sitting there and actually listening to one another. Yeah, and it's okay to have a difference of opinion. And really just treating one another with the kindness that we all deserve to have.

SPEAKER_01 17:51

Right. Kindness and respect. That's really what it's it seems so simple, but we just lose it, I think.

SPEAKER_03 17:57

We really do. We unfortunately lose it on that hamster wheel. Yeah, it's just like it's okay. It's okay to slow down. And the the beautiful stories these women uh shared. I just I don't know if they'll ever be listening to this episode, but I really want to thank each and every one of them that shared their story with Suzanne and Julia and allowed it to become part of this beautiful book. And I have to say the name of the book again so that people really hear it. It's betrayed by work, women's stories of trauma, healing, and hope after being fired. And I love how you really brought the word hope into the title.

SPEAKER_02 18:48

Yeah. We felt really strongly about that uh because it's it's many found their way to hope. And I should also say it's it is not uh perish the thought that this sounds like everybody you know went through this experience and had a happy ever after ending. It's it's not that way necessarily. I mean, we really tried to capture real time and real lives what happened, but it did seem to us that when that there is an experience after uh many women were hopeful after some time had passed and they had had a chance to really, you know, um cope with and and manage the trauma that they had experienced, that they were they they they they were able to and also feel that way towards others.

SPEAKER_03 19:38

And then in your own personal experience, Suzanne, if I may, um did you feel like there was a mourning period when you were let go?

SPEAKER_02 19:48

Oh yeah. Oh yes.

SPEAKER_03 19:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:51

I'm I'm laughing uh because that was really hard. And I think that's that that's one of the things that we capture on um for a number of people in this in this uh uh collection of stories, is that is exactly what people felt was loss. And it's an and we we kind of one of the findings uh you know findings that that we uh uncovered in this is that it is a gap in existing literature because where our thinking started about this is when when that happens, you all of a sudden you feel untethered. You're in an emotional space that you don't know, you know, where you're going, or you know where you were, but where you were no longer exists, and now you don't know where you're going. Um, and that's a the uh a difficult thing for professional women who have worked, you know, most most or all of their lives. Um and so, yes, I would say that. And that one of the other points that we made uh in this book, and that our women have have helped us with, is that there's uh an unacknowledged trauma that comes comes along with this, and it's um it's exacerbated by the way it's done, as you pointed out in the start of this interview. It's often dehumanized dehumanizing the way that it happens. You know, it's just it when you think about one woman who'd been at a company for years, just talks about she had she got let go, and the security guards were there. She'd been there for years, and she was like, Are you really gonna walk out, make me walk out with you? You know, those types of a thing. Um, it's exacerbated by the way society talks about it or don't, or they or doesn't talk about it because it's all you know, what happened? Um, it's exacerbated by shame because there's a lot of feelings of shame around the go about this. Um, it's exacerbated by the talk of business. Oh, it's only business. You know, you let people go, it's only business. It's like it's not only business to the person who got let go, it's extremely personal. Um, and so that's you know, those were those were some of the the aspects of of that. Experience that um that we cover.

SPEAKER_03 22:04

And it's so true. And for many people, like they have their friendships at their job. We spend more waking hours at the jobs that we do than we do awake at home. And then you're not only mourning the loss of your your career, your job, what however you refer to it, but then those work friendships that unfortunately many times kind of just dissolve when you walk out that door because you're walking in two different directions at that point. So there's so many different levels of the mourning of being let go. And um, and you and Julia did this such justice to bring it forward and really do it in such kindness and loving grace, and it's really felt through that.

SPEAKER_02 23:00

Um we felt that we felt we really felt we found we uncovered a lot of models that talk about how important belonging is, but somehow when all of these processes, when you get cast out and you're alone, you know, they it it's never why is that never considered? Because as you're saying, it's not just the person that it happens to, but it's also the people that are left behind, right? You know, because then they also have to think about, you know, well, what does that mean for the workplace? What does that mean for, you know, for for this position for the job for me, you know, if I'm here and that person no longer is, it's it's very difficult.

SPEAKER_03 23:39

Yeah, and it's jarring. And it's really jarring. So, and I know I wanted to really focus on as well about how your life experiences influence your writing, but we really we really interwove that with the whole book that you've written and that you were brave enough to share that this has happened to you as well. And so I have been on the receiving end of being on the end of the camera where you were taking my beautiful photos that I have.

SPEAKER_02 24:15

Yes, if they're lovely.

SPEAKER_03 24:17

How did you pivot from your research career, your writing career into photography? Because you're outstanding in it.

SPEAKER_02 24:28

Oh, it's not a pivot, it's not a pivot. I'm doing it all. I've got the okay. One of the gifts on uh you know the phone is Donald Duck in the circus with three seals behind him with the balls.

unknown 24:41

Right.

SPEAKER_02 24:42

No, I mean I've um uh I have always photographed. I mean, not seriously, but I just uh my kids, we went on this vacation once when the kids were little in Cape Cod, and I was in the ocean taking photos of them, and just something happened, and I don't know what. Uh, but ever since then I have just been driven to pursue photography. And so I do what I what I can to learn. I found a wonderful mentor, a handful of mentors, um, but one who uh that uh he works in various locales and places, and I just keep learning, and um I'm just I I I love it. So that's that's how that came about.

SPEAKER_03 25:27

And it's evident in and I know just from my pictures of how because I do not like myself on camera, I don't like how I look in photos, but you created such beautiful photos for me. Well, they are and I'm constantly getting compliments on them.

SPEAKER_01 25:45

Oh, wonderful!

SPEAKER_03 25:46

Yeah, and it was such a fun day. It was fun, it was such a fun day, and it just and for the listening audience, when Suzanne was doing my photos that I'm so happy with, um it wasn't just I showed up to the studio, sat there for a few minutes, and she took photos, and that was it. We made this fun, like she made this fun. There was music playing, she had me bring different outfits with me. We had a makeup artist there. Yeah, Joanna tells me. I was like, wow, this is like really cool. I'm like, I'm so pampered. I'm like, this was and it was so much fun with the music playing. We weren't rushing, we're just enjoying and we're chit-chatting during it all. So um, yeah, it was just so much fun. So much fun.

SPEAKER_02 26:36

And I remember that listeners, give me a ring.

SPEAKER_03 26:39

Yes, definitely, absolutely. And um, yeah, and so when you are doing photography and you're envisioning how you want that person situated in the photo and the props that you may be giving them, are you using intentional language with them as well to have them like kind of relax and not be like all stiff and everything? Because I know when we first started, I I was like, oh, okay, I gotta sit still, and you're like, no, and like you really with your calming energy, you really like it gave me like, oh, okay, I'm comfortable here, I'm safe with Suzanne, I can relax a little bit. So do you approach that where you really are intentional in the conversation that you have?

SPEAKER_02 27:35

I try, I love this, I love this idea of intentional language. It's it's a great thing. Um, I would say uh yes, and I I'm sure I can do it better. Uh, but that's I try to um I I think a lot of photograp the the people that I've studied with and learned from in photography, many talk about connection, and that's really that's the gist of it, really. So I think that's what I try to do is um, I mean, I try to have fun for myself.

SPEAKER_03 28:04

Right. And to connectly. You do it beautifully. Oh yeah, you're kind. You really do.

SPEAKER_02 28:10

And well, Don, this is my first podcast doing by myself, and I feel really uh flattered. Thank you. You're very welcome. I'm gonna stop after this one.

SPEAKER_03 28:24

No, you do it. This is this has been so much fun because what I really am striving to do with the podcast is it's conversation. Yeah, and it's just sharing what we have to say and tossing back questions and everything. So for the energy serenity listeners out there, what is the best way to connect with you and to find your book?

SPEAKER_02 28:48

Oh, uh the book is um probably the easiest uh say it's on Amazon. Um it's probably Barnes and Noble and Amazon as well, and there may be independent, I think there's an independent bookseller out there, but if you just Google Betrayed by Work, um it's the easiest to find that. Um in terms of me, I have a website, SuzanneVossberg.com, um, and there's a contact button there as well uh that you can just you know collect and it's B-U-R-G. A lot of people I've done a couple jobs where it's people try repeatedly, and and this my name gets butchered. Uh but it's you know www.suzannevasberg.com. There's also just Gmail, you know, skvasberg.com. You can ask Donna.

SPEAKER_03 29:37

And for the listeners and for you, Suzanne, this your contact information is going to be in the show notes. Oh, great. So whoever is listening, or if they're watching on YouTube, they can grab that information from the show notes and really connect with you like that. So for those that are listening out there, to do you have a portfolio online as well on your website, Suzanne? Yes. So they can see your work.

SPEAKER_02 30:04

Great. Some of it's there, and there's a lot that's not. So if if people are looking for something, I'm oh, and I'm on Instagram. I forgot. I'm also on Instagram.

SPEAKER_03 30:12

So what's your handle?

SPEAKER_02 30:14

Uh at Suzanne Vosberg.

SPEAKER_03 30:16

Okay, great. Fabulous. Excellent. Excellent.

SPEAKER_02 30:19

Yeah. I actually um I wanted to talk about one. I had two other things I wanted to talk about that based on your questions that you were um great. Uh I'm not sure. Are we on for like does it matter how long we talk?

SPEAKER_03 30:31

Or let's keep talking. Oh, very good.

SPEAKER_02 30:34

Okay, so I thought I saw the I thought we were running out, I've got to get those points in, but we're good. We are good. Um I want to say that it was really hard for us to get this book published. It was really hard. Um and the only reason that we ended up getting it published, I feel like, is because we we wrote to a lot of agents and we wrote to a lot of, you know, just trying to figure out what to do. Um, we got very, very lucky in that we went, we met an acquisitions editor who had been let go from another job. And she was the only person who got it. And so I feel like this is really um an important point about this topic is that sometimes people don't really understand it until they have met somebody who's been let go, or it happens to them. And that's what we found. Like one person wrote back, Oh, what did these women do to you know be put in this situation? Nothing.

SPEAKER_03 31:34

Nothing, you know, did their job.

SPEAKER_02 31:36

Um, yeah, so it's a really uh that was very striking. I mean, I think the world of publication is is really hard. I mean, I've I have another friend who's got a great book and and and it's and she can't get it published. And and so I know I know that I do not know a lot about it. So I but I'm just gonna say for us, just we got lucky in the sense of meeting somebody who really um understood what we were trying to do. Um, and I also want to point out, by the way, our cover because we have a real are so happy that we have a large mix of all sorts of people. And we were afraid that initially the woman on the front was white. And notice how she's got you know, colored legs and colored, you know, colored, colored face and stuff. And we really wanted to make sure it's not just you know, us white women who are out talking about this. This is really a um an issue that cuts across everything, cuts across professions, cuts across race, cut, you know, everything. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 32:37

Um unfortunately, no one, there's not one person that's immune to it.

SPEAKER_02 32:42

Right.

SPEAKER_03 32:42

And so that's beautiful that you really pointed that out. That this is not just for a small segment, this is for the broader package, really. Yeah, and it just it and it just really does give hope when you read these. And and I really and I almost you were meant to have that acquisition person that you connected with because you you want someone that's going to be just as emotionally invested in your manuscript that becomes the book as you are as the author with Julia, because you want someone that gets it.

SPEAKER_04 33:26

Right.

SPEAKER_03 33:26

Because then it it it changes everything then.

SPEAKER_02 33:30

Yeah. We had a I ran into a another woman friend of mine at a volleyball tournament, no less. But we're I was we're just talking about this, and and uh I don't remember how I don't know how it came up, but she had been let go. And I said, Oh, you gotta let me, you know, you've got to read this. And and she bought it and she said, Oh my gosh, I wish I had had this so much earlier. It really helped. And that was perfect, like that was that was enough. You know, that's what we were really trying to do is get the book into the hands of women, or anyone, not just women, but you know, women or men who get in get, you know, uh have this happen and and are struggling with what to do with all these feelings and what to do when you're in that emotional space and you feel really untethered, and you're not, you know, you're you know, the door closes and the window opens. Okay, yeah, but there's a long dark hallway in between those two things sometimes, you know, and um and and that's what we were really trying to to um to address.

SPEAKER_03 34:35

Well, you certainly addressed it and you addressed it beautifully. And I love the idea that when you're out and about in your daily life, you're you're talking to people about this beautiful book, you're not jamming it down their throats, but if a conversation ensues, you're like, hey, wait, you know, and you're meant to cross paths with these different people in this walk of life that we're on, that hey, I have a resource for you. Yeah, and it's not just because I'm the co-author of the book, because the people in the book will give you hope.

SPEAKER_02 35:11

Yeah, yeah. I have a I had some I had some extra copies. Um, and so you know those little libraries that you that people, you know, lending libraries. So I thought, okay, this is I'm I'm a horrible marketer. And so I thought, okay, this is how I'm gonna market. I'm gonna put my book in these little lending libraries. They all disappeared. Um, there's no no extra, you know, money coming in from that at all. But you know, it's putting it out in the world.

SPEAKER_03 35:40

It's you know they can take it putting it out in the world, definitely. That's really the moment. The next time you do that, when you place those books in those those lending libraries that people have, and some offices have them where like whether chiropractor or doctors are libraries, yeah, yeah, yeah. You you should leave a note in there and say, if you're so inclined, please leave an Amazon book review.

SPEAKER_00 36:07

Oh, that's a good idea. Yes, yeah, that's a great idea.

SPEAKER_03 36:11

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, cool. You can even write it on the inside of the cover and sign the book and say if you're so inclined. Yeah, because it they were sparked to pick it out out of the other 10 books that are usually in those little lending libraries.

SPEAKER_02 36:27

I like the little doors. Yeah, yeah. That's really cool. That's a great idea, Donna. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 36:32

I love it. I love it. And um, and before I forget, Sparkle Bookstore is down in Spark Hill now. Have you been in?

SPEAKER_02 36:40

I have. Oh, yes, I like that bookstore a lot.

SPEAKER_03 36:44

Yeah, it's a beautiful college book that she has there.

SPEAKER_02 36:47

Yeah, it's a great collection. They're really, and I should go in and uh and inquire.

SPEAKER_03 36:53

Right, you really should. Definitely.

SPEAKER_02 36:55

Have you been to there's the other there's the other bookstore in Northvale? Have you ever been? I mean, have you ever had your book? And you're a children's author. You're a children's book author.

SPEAKER_03 37:03

Yeah, um books and greetings. We um Rita and I several years ago did a book signing event there for Angels Forever Home.

SPEAKER_01 37:12

Oh nice.

SPEAKER_03 37:13

And that went really nice there. Yeah, it's good. So that'd be worth for you to walk into there too.

SPEAKER_01 37:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:19

So before we conclude tonight, Suzanne, is there anything else you want to share with the listeners?

SPEAKER_02 37:25

One of the questions you asked about me was about the intent of uh words with my young adult children. Yes. So I do not know. Um I just I I wanted to meditate on that with you actually. So I would I started by just sort of saying, well, for me, writing, if I if I really need to understand something, I need to write it. I need to write it. I need to write because that's the only way I can, you know, clarify my thoughts, right? That's kind of the way. And to do that, you have to the mind, you know, can generate tons of ideas, but to focus them and to sit down and and get them out and to get beyond the wow, this really sucks phase, you have to just keep going. Um, and I tell my kids that this is the hardest part of anything that they do have to do is to start and to and to organize. Um, and I encourage them to read, which is learning style dependent, and one likes to read, one doesn't, and it is a it's a learning style thing. Um and so the but then the power of the word also goes beyond reading because it's also I think what you're getting at is how we talk to ourselves. Yeah, and so I think that that's something with young adults. Um, one of my one of the phrases I always think about is like we do not shoot on ourselves, you know, in terms of right, we should, you know, should do this. We don't shoot on ourselves. But I also tell the kids that it's really important to have a a positive, a supportive inner voice and to talk to themselves in a way that's um supportive, you know, and and um but I don't know what that I don't know how to what that means to a young adult. I mean I don't know if that's you know if and and if uh um I my brother my brother this is getting back to her my brother went to a a peace uh a you a meeting recently at the UN about peace and world peace. And one of the concepts there is to have world peace, we have to have peace within ourselves. I mean that's where it starts within ourselves.

SPEAKER_04 39:42

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 39:43

And we get peace from the words, our inner peace comes with in part the words that we tell ourselves. And um I which okay, as a older person, I can get and I understand I try to work with that, and I don't always do it well. But you know, with kids, I I don't really know how to say that to them other than that, other than to, you know, support yourself, be kind to yourself, stay on your path. You know, don't keep your words about you and where you're headed, and you know, keep your eye on that. Um I don't know. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 40:23

I call it slaying the inner naysayer. Oh, because the way we speak to ourselves, we would not talk to other people like that.

SPEAKER_00 40:31

Right.

SPEAKER_03 40:32

I and we have to be, and that's where it starts. Start speaking kindly to yourself. Yeah, that's beautiful that you're you're instilling that on your child your young adult children, uh, I don't know. Whether we know or not at that given moment that it's actually penetrating their brain, at least we're sprinkling those seeds of positivity for them.

SPEAKER_01 40:55

Yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_03 40:56

And all of a sudden it'll come out in conversation one day and you'll be like, yes, they were listening.

SPEAKER_02 41:01

Oh, I hope so, Donna.

SPEAKER_03 41:06

It'll happen. So, Suzanne, I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for you joining me today. Thank you, Donna. And I'm so excited that when this will get to air, and I will be back in touch with you when we have a date, and I'll give you all the promo information and the images that goes along with it, and we'll promote a way together. We'll promote a way to go. So I want to thank you for your beautiful time and your beautiful presence here tonight. So thank you, thank you, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 41:34

Well, thank you, Donna. This has been wonderful. Thank you. It's really fun.

SPEAKER_03 41:38

I'm so happy. So happy you've enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_01 41:41

All right, well, I'll talk to you soon.

SPEAKER_03 41:43

Yes, take care. Okay, bye. Thank you for joining me on Energy Serenity. I appreciate you taking the time to explore the power of the word, mindfulness, and calming practices with me. If today's episode resonated, please subscribe and consider leaving a review. Until next time, may your energy be serene and your words be empowered. Namaste.