Episode 12: Love, Money & Reality: What Women Don’t See Coming

This one is personal.

Donna is in the middle of a fight for her home—a home she built, paid for, and created for her kids long before her relationship began. And what she’s learning? It’s not as simple as it should be.

In this episode, Donna and Meg sit down with financial planners and divorce specialists Cindy Viner and Shauna Selig to talk about what really happens when relationships end—and the financial realities many women never see coming.

This isn’t just about money.
It’s about security, independence, and protecting what you’ve worked your entire life to build.

They get into:

• The biggest misconceptions women have during separation
• Why “affordability” on paper isn’t real life
• What happens to pensions, assets, and your home
• Why every woman needs an “exit plan” (even if she never uses it)
• And how to make decisions when your entire life feels uncertain

This conversation is honest, eye-opening, and at times, a little uncomfortable—but it’s one every woman needs to hear.

Because love doesn’t protect your assets.
And not knowing can cost you everything.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:05

Welcome to Sheefshed Unfiltered. This is not a podcast for perfect women or polite conversation. This is for the women who've been divorced, dismissed, worked out, betrayed, and still somehow managed to show up, get shit done, and keep everyone else still alive. There'll be laughter, there may be tears, and you might even say, did they really say that shit? Just real women, real stories, and the kind of honesty that usually happens after the second glass of wine. The first season of She Shed Unfiltered is about the things we learned the hard way. The lessons no one warned us about. The moments that changed us. Whether we were ready or not. I'm Donna. And I'm Meg. This episode is really personal for me. I'm navigating something right now where I'm fighting for my home. A home I bought, paid for, and built for my kids to have stability. Long before my ex was ever in the picture. And it's been really eye-opening how complicated things can become, even when you think it should be simple. So I want to have this conversation, not just for me, but for any woman who's worked hard to build something and is going into a new relationship.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

And for me, I had a sense of financial free fall, but it's not as fresh as the experience Donna going through right now. When I decided to initiate a separation with my now ex-husband, I was unemployed and had been so for two weeks, so I wasn't exactly in a financial stable situation. And that's why we're so glad that we're sitting down with our guests because you're not only financial planners, you've lived this in different ways yourselves. Just a disclaimer to our listeners before we dive into this episode, Cindy and Shauna, while they are financial professionals, uh, are not your financial advisors. So if you want tailored advice to your situation, uh please seek out your own financial advisor. This is just a casual chat that we're having here today. And uh, ladies, could you please introduce yourselves for our podcast listeners?

SPEAKER_03 2:21

Uh I'm Cindy Viner. I am a certified financial planner and also a certified divorce specialist. And I work with uh Shauna, my business partner, and we work with women every day who are going through divorce, separation, and financial turmoil, and we help them see clarity at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

And I'm Shauna Seelig, I'm Cindy's business partner, also a certified financial planner, and I'm also getting my uh divorce financial analyst specialization. So going getting that this year. So, what does that mean? Certified in divorce? So finances, so it's helping women who are going through divorce to kind of prepare and see what's ahead and understand the implications of what they're doing and the decisions they're making. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 3:09

I didn't know that was a certification. No, me either. I think I think I need an appointment with you ladies.

SPEAKER_03 3:16

And on my side of it, the certified divorce specialist is more on the the journey through the divorce and and and and separation process and understanding the finances, but not laser focused on that. I'm on the other side of it, looking at the whole picture, helping people navigate what is often emotional.

SPEAKER_02 3:37

Would you work with lawyers or like so I'm going through a separation? Would it have been or would it be beneficial to see you guys first before going to the lawyer, or is it kind of in parallel with the legal side of things?

SPEAKER_00 3:51

It can be either or. I would say, you know, it depends on your situation and what you're going through, but certainly working together with your lawyer is something, you know, that we would do.

SPEAKER_03 4:01

We collaborate with professionals every day on financial planning. So we work we will work and collaborate with someone's accountant, with someone's lawyer to give that second opinion. And we also have experts we collaborate with to give people second opinions. So your lawyer says this, you're our client, we're gonna send something to our legal team to see if there's anything outstanding there.

SPEAKER_01 4:24

Okay. Oh, that sounds very helpful.

SPEAKER_02 4:26

Yeah, and so you would have like a good understanding of the divorce law in Nova Scotia. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:32

Not lawyers here, definitely not giving legal advice, but we can speak to the legal side of it. You know, a lot of people aren't familiar with common law property law in Nova Scotia. Um a lot of people have a lot of misconceptions around what they have to give up or what they're going to get to keep, and we can help with that. And sometimes it's more giving a lot of clarity to the jargon that's there in the legal paperwork. We're able to really give a lot of a lot of clarity to people because sometimes when you're talking to your lawyer, maybe it's just a lot of lawyer speak, and where they're I don't know, like to not to dumb it down, but to make it real, make it clear, make it everyday language.

SPEAKER_02 5:16

Yeah, and I think that's so important. Like it's really difficult when you're faced with that change in your life to know where to start navigating. And yes, the law states it's very, I don't know, black and white, but it's hard to really understand. And and I think I like I've never heard of a certified divorce specialist, right? On the financial side. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_03 5:42

I've only we'd known this when we were in early days of our if you were to look it up, you'd see there's only two in Nova Scotia, and I'm one of them. Oh yeah, and there's not very many in Canada, it's it's not common. And again, it's not something that people necessarily think of doing or think of talking about or seeing, but it just adds to our ability. Having the extra training, the extra courses, the extra experience adds to our ability to fully service our clients, women, when they come in and and and they're going through a divorce and they've got like the pension they have to deal with, and they've got the house they have to deal with, and we're giving them financial clarity around what they have, but also able to, you know, they could come and say, Well, they said this or I read this, and able to give them some clarity around that, or let them know when they need to go talk to their lawyer. Because again, we're not lawyers, right? We're just able to wade through a lot of a lot of the stuff they're going through and get it too. We've both in divorce, yeah. Right, yeah, so you understand it from lived experience as well. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 6:50

And you know how challenging it can be and and the emotional side of it. So trying to think straight when you know your whole nervous system is like shot. Yes, yeah, shot. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:01

I I think and you just don't get a chance to settle. No, and sometimes talking to somebody who does this every day as a part of their work allows you to settle a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 7:12

Yeah, and I think too, like we are able to connect with people really well and have those conversations, you know, kind of on that personal level. So I think of us as connectors to, you know, so if someone's going through divorce and just starting the process, doesn't know, you know, what do I even ask a lawyer or what questions do I have for my accountant? If I'm a business owner, what does this mean? So we're kind of a safe space really to come and kind of lay everything out, start the conversation, and then we help you through. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:42

And so do you do that with just your current clients, or if somebody like myself, you know, I don't have any investments with you guys, I'm not a client. Could I just call and make an appointment and say, I'm going, hey Cindy, I'm going through this divorce or separation, common law separation. Like take me on as a client. Is that how it works?

SPEAKER_03 8:06

Or so our our entire business is based on investment assets. Right. So as part of that, that's how we get paid. We don't just give you a sit down and charge you $300 and send you on your way, right? We do full financial planning and we get paid because people have their investments with us. That said, we probably spend five to ten percent of our time just having those 30-minute conversations to help people kind of see something. Obviously, we can't do that all day long, or we wouldn't have a business. Um but typically what happens is our clients will be going through this, or they know somebody that's going through it, and they'll send them to us. We'll sit down with them, see if we can offer them something they're not already getting where they are. So say their investments were at a bank and that's just their investments. And then they have to go to a lawyer, and then they have to go to their accountant. You know, maybe what they need and what they would see value in is having somebody who can help them walk through that separation and divorce, help them manage their money, help them make plans for the future, put it all in one desk, and that saves them a lot of time and and effort, and they see value in that and then they become clients. Right. But we don't do one off, let me consult with you on your divorce.

SPEAKER_01 9:27

Right, right. That makes sense. And for our listeners, Cindy, can you give examples of common investment assets that you'd be reviewing with a potential client or an actual client?

SPEAKER_03 9:38

Yeah, for sure. So our uh clients, they may be coming from somebody who has been a military spouse. They're split up, they need to maybe they've been a stay-at-home parent or maybe they've worked part-time because the they've moved a lot, and then they're getting divorced. We're helping them with planning for that half the pension they're getting. And then once we've done all the planning and they've done the paperwork, sometimes that'll take a year, but then that comes in and that is going to pay for our time and it's gonna look after them going forward with their planning that we're doing for them. We also look at inheritances. Uh, somebody may be inheriting a lot of money and they don't know what to do with it. They don't want to get the tattoo in the car, they want to actually build a future. We're we're working with that. They may come to us with um half of uh an RSP that they're getting out of a divorce. Maybe they come because they don't know what to do with the money from the house. Right. Right? They don't know should they put a down payment on the house? What does that look like? We see people all the time who actually can't afford to get another house, but they don't know that because maybe the bank has said, well, you can afford this much. Right. But then we put it on into a planning situation. It's like, is this gonna make you really tight? You may be better to do this or this. So that's the sort of things we're doing.

SPEAKER_01 11:02

So let's look at kind of misconceptions for a second. Um, so you know, obviously you focus, it sounds like your client base is primarily women or or exclusively women?

SPEAKER_00 11:14

Not exclusively, no, no, primarily women. Okay, primarily women.

SPEAKER_01 11:18

Amazing. Um so what have you, and I put this question to both of you actually. If you could name two or three misconceptions that folks come in that are on the other side of a separation and navigating the financial side that you have to kind of uh shine a light on or explain for them, what do what do people get wrong?

SPEAKER_03 11:42

I think one of the misconceptions, um, a very simple misconception and easy to make is uh further down the road, what does their CPP look like? Well, I'm gonna get his right. No, you're not gonna just get his. A, you need to apply for it, B, you're not you're gonna get a certain percentage of it if you do that. It doesn't automatically happen. And you're only ever gonna get the maximum that one person can get. So even when people die, you know, we have widows that didn't realize that, oh, now I'm only gonna get a maximum of eleven hundred or whatever the maximum is. It's not like you get his and yours. So that's a huge misconception people have about CPP. Uh some of the misconception around uh how long their money will last, what they can use it for. One of the reasons we chose to work with women specifically, and we have we work with many wonderful men too, but our specialty is making sure women have a safe space to be and a space safe space to feel seen and heard. So one of the big uh uh issues we have when someone comes in who has never been at the table before, yeah, they don't have a concept, and this isn't about somebody not understanding in a negative way. They've never had to think about it. Their spouse always did it, right? And now they don't understand. I guess it's not so much a misconception, but a a lack of understanding of how much money they have and what that will do for them.

SPEAKER_04 13:13

Right.

SPEAKER_03 13:14

Like, oh, I got $350,000, I'm gonna go buy a house. Now I won't have a mortgage.

SPEAKER_01 13:19

Oh my?

SPEAKER_03 13:21

But I don't have anything else. Right. Yeah. So that's a common error people make because they aren't used to seeing a certain amount of money. The more money somebody has, the less those misconceptions seem to happen.

SPEAKER_02 13:34

Right.

SPEAKER_03 13:35

But people that maybe haven't ever been in charge of the finances, people that have reaped uh you know, a significant amount of wealth from um a broken down marriage, but maybe didn't in the past have an understanding of what that money could or could not do.

unknown 13:51

Right. Right.

SPEAKER_03 13:52

And I would say that's the biggest thing that I have seen the lack of of education and understanding around how much money you actually need.

SPEAKER_01 14:00

Right. So that must be really helpful. You'd provide kind of a realistic reframing of like these are your assets, this is what you have now, but this is the kind of lifestyle that you can lead, this is what you can take on in terms of a mortgage or rent, etc. So kind of helping them achieve a deeper understanding of what that actually means day to day.

SPEAKER_03 14:21

Because affordability when you go sit in a bank is one thing.

SPEAKER_01 14:25

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_03 14:26

Real life affordability is extremely different from that. Yes. Right. So that is that is a common um that is common.

SPEAKER_02 14:36

Especially when you're, you know, mid-age. Like I'm 55. There's a lot of questions that go through your head when you're, you know, 50 plus and life changes for you. It's like, what is the best road or best path I can take to get me to where I need to be when I'm 65 or whatever age it is when you decide to stop working on a full-time basis.

SPEAKER_03 15:00

Well, that would speak to the financial plan, right?

SPEAKER_00 15:01

Yes, yes, exactly. That's what I was going to say. That the planning that we do, that is what gives that clarity, like sitting down with people and walking through, you know, different options of renting versus buying. And you know, if you're renting somewhere where you're paying, you know, $2,800 versus $3,800, God knows the rent is crazy these days. But the planning really gives that clarity to everyone on on kind of again how long that money will last or what it's best used for.

SPEAKER_03 15:30

And and if you're gonna be able to do that when you're done working, right? Yes. Because it's not just now, it's 10-20 years down the road. What does this look like? Is it sustainable? Is this money gonna grow enough for for you to be able to continue to do that? Right. Do you need to save more now?

SPEAKER_02 15:47

Right. Especially if you're renting, right? Like you look, you know, maybe right now you can afford that $3,200 a month for rent. But then when you go down to if you haven't planned properly and you're 65 and you're getting, you know, whatever from your RSPs, most of us in our generation don't have pensions like from our employer that just you know, yeah, and if you are, good for you. Congratulations. Um but you know, your CPP and old age, like that's not gonna get you far.

SPEAKER_03 16:21

No, no. I think that when you do look at a a real robust financial plan, and robust doesn't mean, oh, I have three million dollars, that will make a good plan. It's oh, I have RSPs that are valued at X amount. What does that look like for me 10 years from now? What are my choices going to look like? And that's really what financial planning is all about. It's about choices. If I choose now to live this way, when I am 74, this will happen. What choices can I make now that could avoid that? Of course. Yes, that's right. And often it feels super gray.

SPEAKER_02 17:10

Oh, I'm terrified. I'm like, right after this, I'm booking an appointment with you guys. Like the scariest thing. It comes so fast, right? You know, you go, you you're in your 20s and you have your first like real job, and you're like, uh, I'll put money away. Let me just buy my car and let me buy my first house and all of that, and then then you start having kids, and then there's daycare costs, and you know, and and then you just it just sneaks up on you so fast, right?

SPEAKER_01 17:39

Well and it doesn't help that the cost of essentials, you know, our listeners inside Nova Scotia will understand. Uh they're constantly on the rise, right? So, you know, gas is on the rise. I'm I'm a renter currently, rent is on the rise, yeah, groceries are on the rise, so it's hard to manage for that, I think, when it's a bit of a moving target. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So, one thing I'm curious about, let's let's flip it to the positive here, because we've talked about misconceptions. Um, I'd love to hear from both of you about what you love about helping women in this specific way. Are there like mini epiphanies that you've witnessed? Do you feel like you're empowering women? What keeps you loving your job and staying engaged in it?

SPEAKER_00 18:25

I think it is the empowering piece of it, right? Women come into us and it's that uncertainty and they're just not sure of really, you know, kind of where they're gonna land at the end of all this. And so walking them through that and giving them that understanding, it's really it is gratifying. Like that's what I love most about my job is helping people, and so helping women that are going through a difficult time that we have both been through, right? And we understand what it's like. Um, yeah, it's it's really gratifying.

SPEAKER_03 18:54

I think making it better for one more person makes it worth it. Yeah, right. Like we had to navigate that ourselves. I was in this industry when I went through my divorce. Yeah. Um, so I had a little bit more insight, but I wasn't a financial planner, and where I worked wasn't about financial planning, it was about investment growth, and I didn't have much at the time. So understanding that you're it's it's it's never the end. There's always a way to get there, and being able to show people the way, being able to show women you can do this, it will work out. You may have to make choices that you don't love, but at least you have choices, and sometimes that really allows someone to breathe a little bit. And seeing somebody make that okay breath, it's very rewarding.

SPEAKER_01 19:45

That must feel so good. Yeah, just providing that roadmap, right? Where because I remember how lost I felt at the early stages of my separation, and also just not understanding your financial future, what that holds, especially when you're deep in negotiations with your ex-partner, is so stressful. So you need that kind of calm, assuring voice, right?

SPEAKER_02 20:05

To lead you through the dark. Oh, yeah. Like when you're in a relationship, you're building a life together, right? So you're you're planning for, you know, even like to talk about my ex-partner. We were planning for what it's going to look like in five years, right? And then all of a sudden, that plan is like taken from you. So then it's like, okay, all right, so we need to switch focus, right? I I think uh one question I have for you, and Cindy, we kind of talked about it when we had a call way back when, and I was I mentioned that when I was married, I was going through counseling, and my therapist said to me, every woman should have an exit plan, even if they never use it. And we had a great conversation. You you mentioned that you had like you called it something else, but you have kids and you've you've made sure that they go money. They have go money. Yeah, and I think that is so important. And and I was, you know, I've always kept that in the back of my mind now. Like, you know, that was 20 years ago when she said you should always have an exit plan.

SPEAKER_03 21:13

Yeah, it's it's so important to never be stuck in a job that you're not happy in that sucks your soul. It's so important not to be stuck in a relationship that you can't afford to get out of. And I know that historically it's been very traditional to have all your money together, it's been very traditional for the man to look after it or one person to look after it. But you know, my children all have the ability to leave a job or a relationship because they all have that account that would allow that. They're all happ happy where they are right now, and that's great. But, you know, um if they decide they don't want to be where they are right now in their job or their relationship, they can go.

SPEAKER_01 21:54

That's amazing. Yeah, that's and that in itself is so empowering, I feel. Oh, having choices. Yeah, having choice.

SPEAKER_02 22:00

Not feeling trapped in your life. Yeah. And I mean, so you hear of so many women staying in marriages, and you know, some of them are horrible marriages, some of them, you know, worse than others, but because they don't have that financial stability. And and the same with jobs, right? Like but when you have those choices, your world can change.

SPEAKER_03 22:23

Oh my goodness. I worked for ten years to get myself to the place that I could go.

SPEAKER_02 22:28

Right.

SPEAKER_03 22:29

Right. Ten years. That's a long time. Getting there. Yeah. I mean, I was in that relationship for 25. But the last ten were me getting a career. Right. Figuring it out because I knew that it was done. Yeah. Yeah. Not everybody's gonna stay ten years. But I didn't, but I was the stay-at-home mom, right? Right. So I get that too, and I think that's also what is truly relatable for people that we get it. We we've experienced it, and sometimes it's a little different sitting with us than it is sitting with the lawyers and the accountants because we're just doing it all.

SPEAKER_02 23:08

Right. And you can, you know, I mean, I don't know, but just from meeting you guys and and and talking, like as a woman, I feel like we could go to you and be vulnerable and say, like, oh my god, I was so stupid, like I didn't put enough money away, or I didn't have my separate bank account. And if you're sitting there crying in front of you two, you're not feeling like just stupid and like because I've done it. Right.

unknown 23:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:35

I will hug you. I will hug you. I will. I probably won't. Yeah. She's not a hugger. She's not a hugger. Yeah, exactly. We do, we really do. Yeah, she's really good at hugging and I'm not. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:51

You're good at laying out the facts. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 23:56

But I think, I think because of that, I'm able to just really look at what what does this look like? And literally in my head, when I'm looking at that, I'm looking at okay, you can go here, you can go here, you can go here, you can go here. So which one sounds the best to you and how do we make it happen? Right. And then Shauna hugs them and then we move on.

SPEAKER_04 24:16

Can you just go to Shauna for you? Right? Yes.

SPEAKER_02 24:24

It's it's interesting because when I was married, we, you know, we were young and we had one bank account, and all the money went into the bank one bank account, and you know, it was just we paid all the bills and whatever was left, you know, we usually spent it. But since then, and in my past relationship, I had my own bank account. You know, we knew kind of what each other made, but was never like confirmed what the other person made. And and literally he just sent me money on a monthly basis and I paid all the bills. Um, so I you know, I've always taught my kids that like you know, my daughter's 22, she has a boyfriend, and you know, who knows where their relationship will go, and I'm like, do not all like do not combine your bank accounts, have your own independence. I I think that piece is so important, right?

SPEAKER_01 25:15

Absolutely so important. And it's interesting with my ex-husband, we took the opposite path, which I feel like is kind of a harbinger of doom for us, but looking back, uh hindsight's 2020, but we had separate accounts for most of our relationship when we were just living together and when we were married. I think it was only the last three years perhaps that we actually got a joint account, and we never got joint RRSPs or anything like that. And honestly, it made it so much easier, at least that one particular issue when we were separating, because our financial lives weren't as entwined as other couples. Where, for example, my parents, the boomer generation, my mom has never had to do anything financial. So it's like, oh no, your father does that, you know. So I feel like they're they're never gonna split up. They're they're in their 70s now in a solid couple, but if that were to happen, my mom would not know what to do, she doesn't have access to that information. I know it would be very difficult. So I think it's interesting too seeing the generational shifts in how money is managed and who takes that on.

SPEAKER_03 26:26

Well, it's changed a lot too. I mean, statistically, 75 uh well 75% of women are going to be single and making the money decisions at some point in their life. And the women who become widowed, most of them are looking for a new advisor, whether that's a new bank advisor, a new financial advisor, they're looking for someone else to look after the money because they've never had to do it and they don't have a relationship with the person who did.

SPEAKER_01 26:58

Right, that makes so much sense. And I mean, historically speaking, women live longer than men. So we need to plan financially for a longer period of time. And as you say, often, you know, if we if not a chosen single lifestyle, then your partner passes away.

SPEAKER_00 27:15

Exactly. I I was thinking when you were talking about your mother, like, you know, be awful if something happened to your father, but then what happens? How does she manage the finances? Right? How does she step in? So I had a client that happened to, and her name wasn't on any of the bills, right? She had no access to the bank account, so it was really sitting down with her and going through all of that as well. So it's more, you know, it's more than just even the bank account. Right.

SPEAKER_03 27:39

80% of women will die single.

SPEAKER_01 27:41

Right. Wow, that's a powerful statistic. It is.

SPEAKER_03 27:44

Wow. 80% of most most men will die married. You know, the same percentage will die married.

SPEAKER_01 27:52

Oh my goodness. Well, that makes sense though, because I'm in an apartment building and I love my floor because it is all single ladies who are in their late 60s, 70s, 80s. They are active, they have a social life, but they they're they've out uh literally outlived their relationships, and it is just them kind of rebuilding their lives in their senior years. So I mean that's living proof of the statistics that you just quoted. Which still kind of blows my mind.

SPEAKER_03 28:18

Yeah, the average for a woman to be single um in Canada, like through divorce or uh death of a spouse, is late 50s. Right? The average marriage the average mar the average marriage starts at 32 in Canada, lasts about 15 years.

unknown 28:36

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 28:37

What are the do you know what the divorce statistics are in like Nova Scotia or Canada? No, no, those are some good stats. Yeah, seriously. I got some. Yeah. I mean, years ago when you you I remember my mom was my parents divorced in the 70s, and it was so shameful for her, right? So shameful. And one of my best friends, she came from a very strict Catholic family, and she wasn't allowed to have sleepovers at my house because my mom was single. And I mean, eventually she was, right? We've been we're still friends now at fifty-five. But it took a while for them to like, you know, oh, a single woman, that's scandalous, like you know, raising her daughters, and and now, like, I mean, it's just it's changed so much, like the divorce rate is much higher than it ever was, and women are choosing not to get remarried.

SPEAKER_03 29:35

And why do you why do you think?

SPEAKER_02 29:38

This is not a man.

SPEAKER_01 29:41

Yeah, but also not to get married in the in the first place. I mean, I've certainly noticed um I I work with some folks. I am not in my twenties, I'm 45, but I I do actually because I run my own business and build teams, I work with folks in their 20s and early 30s, which you know I don't like to do the mental math, but they are much younger than me and of a different, distinct generation, and it's just not a priority, I feel, in the same way, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Um, but I totally, as someone who is divorced, I totally get it. There was such societal pressure, even for me, and from my family as well, that was just kind of like getting your first job or voting. It was just this kind of milestone in your life, it's something that you do, right? You get married, you have kids, yeah. And I mean, I'm on board with the have kids part because I mean I I always wanted to be a mum, but you know, at the time I felt like the only respectable path to that is getting married, and I do not feel that way now.

SPEAKER_03 30:43

No, and when you think about how our culture and society has changed, you know, marriage used to be because women didn't have any any way to make income.

SPEAKER_02 30:55

You weren't allowed to have your own bank, right?

SPEAKER_03 30:57

So you had to be married, and if you weren't, who was gonna look after you? Right. Right? So getting married was necessary.

SPEAKER_01 31:04

Yes, exactly. And interesting, I don't you ladies might already know this, but do you know the origins of the word spinster?

SPEAKER_03 31:11

I don't. No.

SPEAKER_01 31:12

So spinster, it's it's in our modern lexicon, it's a word that's actually has a negative connotation, right? Like, oh, old spinster, like surrounded by cats and half-finished knitting projects or whatever it is. But the origin of the word comes from someone who is spinning, like a weaver, someone who's in textiles, a woman who is able to be financially independent because she has a profession, she has a specialty. I love that. And so she doesn't quote unquote need a man because she's a spinster, but I feel like the meaning of that has changed over time to mean, oh, someone someone can't get a man or someone's by themselves. Where really it's actually speaking to you have a special skill and you are making use of that skill, and therefore you have financial independence, which I don't see anything wrong with that.

SPEAKER_00 32:06

Absolutely not. No, I have three sisters, and they all got married before I did, and so I was the spinster sister. Yeah, yeah. So now I'm gonna go back to them and see. Yes, yeah, yeah, I will wear that proudly. Yes, but so really easy. I'm independent. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_02 32:25

But I mean, growing up, my mother was always like, you need to find a man to take care of you, and and I was the last one of all my friends. Like all my friends were getting married in their early 20s, and I was 29 when I got married, and um, but yeah, I'm like, oh my god, over I'm 25 and I don't even have a boyfriend. Oh my god, I'm 26, and oh my gosh, like I'm never gonna get married. My life is over now, right? But it's just interesting how things shift as we women become financially independent, you know, our education level is uh getting higher, and you know, our careers were holding top level careers and and being financially financially uh literate and understanding what all that means. And you know, nothing wrong with marriage, but it's not what it used to be 20, 30, 80, 100 years ago, right?

SPEAKER_01 33:22

And it's not something you have to do. Like what Cindy said earlier, it's important to show women that they have choices, and if you're financially independent, you have more choices.

SPEAKER_03 33:34

Yeah, it's more of a want. I want to be with this person versus I need to find somebody. And I would have said up until six years ago we had really turned a corner on that, but I find now with the cost of living having grown, I mean, exponentially, it's creating a something that is causing people to have to stay in relationships that perhaps aren't healthy. That is so true. It's creating a culture of of people having to live together because they can't afford to live separately. Right.

SPEAKER_04 34:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:06

I definitely I know I have couples in my life where I know the woman wants to extricate herself from that situation and she said, I do not see a way out financially where I'm not utterly destitute on the other side of this, which is really depressing when you hear a friend confide that in you, right?

SPEAKER_03 34:23

Oh my gosh, if I had felt now, or let's say ten years ago, if I had started feeling like, oh, I'm gonna have to leave a relationship, I mean, I would have probably not had success in leaving. Because I did it, you know, much longer before that, it w I was able to do that. I was able to grow a career that was allowed me to be financially independent. But the last six, seven years has made it very, very challenging for people.

SPEAKER_02 34:53

Oh my gosh, the the price of apartments and like a single person to buy a home now, I don't even know if it happens.

SPEAKER_03 35:01

It's tough. Yeah. I mean, I have a daughter who's a teacher, she's in her third year of teaching. She makes so you can look up what teachers make in Nova Scotia. Not enough. But I mean, for her to afford to rent an apartment even for $2,200 a month, that's what it costs for like a newer apartment where we live. That would not leave her money to pay the rest of her bills. No. And that's as somebody who's went gone to university for six years, right? So, what does that say about where we are financially and what choices we have as individuals anymore? It's almost like coming together. Fortunately, you know, she's in a good place financially. She's with someone that she cares about very much, and they're gonna build a life together, and that's fantastic. But in general, I think that it's lessening the choices that individuals have, let alone women.

SPEAKER_02 35:51

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 35:53

That was kind of depressing.

SPEAKER_01 35:55

It's like hell you know, I think it's it's it kind of, you know, um just it makes it more of a priority, I think, for women to better understand what their current financial situation is, what their options are, so that you don't feel like your life is living you and and you're just kind of sleepwalking through, which is how I felt a little bit before my marriage ended. Um, I was in a government job and I was getting compensated quite well. And honestly, I was staying in it because of the benefits and uh and the salary, etc. You know, all the cushy aspects of a job that you stay in for, even though it's slowly killing you every day.

SPEAKER_03 36:37

Soul sucking.

SPEAKER_01 36:39

Soul sucking and just yeah, corporate, and obviously I'm on the opposite end of that now, running my own scrappy little business for two plus years. But um, but yeah, it's it's so hard when you do genuinely feel trapped by your circumstances, and I think what you ladies are offering is you know clarity and understanding that yes, you do have options, even if those involve tough choices. But I mean, we've all here in this room been through or actively going through divorces, you have to be uncomfortable to get to a good, happy place, you know? Like what one follows the other. So, you know, if you push yourself into those zones of discomfort, something really amazing can come for you at the at the other end of that.

SPEAKER_03 37:24

And you know, building that confidence doesn't come because you decide to be confident, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:28

So true.

SPEAKER_03 37:29

Right? It comes because you've tried something that was super uncomfortable, you've made a decision that doesn't feel good, and then the other side of it, that's when the confidence comes in, right? And then you can move forward with another step. Right. You know, it's not like one big giant step today, right? Like I said, I took 10 years to get it together.

SPEAKER_02 37:51

What would like thinking about women who are thinking about their relationship and you know, wondering if they if they're stuck, what would be like some advice that you would give them after 10 years? Like just keep going, just that's a really good question, actually.

SPEAKER_00 38:11

That is because it's so again so different for everyone. Yeah, and depending on the situation you're in, obviously, you know, and the choices you're able to make, but I think for me, when I think back to my first divorce, I was like, I just needed to get out, right? And I knew I needed to get out, and I knew in my head and my heart that things would work out. It again, I wasn't a financial advisor at the time, I didn't have a lot of money and investments and that kind of thing, but it was just the decision to move um and the support of my family that got things started. So it's kind of like you said, you know, it's taking that first step, and that it can be a little step. It can be reaching out to someone, you know, like we said, we will have conversations, you know, just to to speak and kind of help and guide.

SPEAKER_03 39:00

And and that said, you know, I've met with someone recently who didn't see a way out. You know, she she got out, but now but she didn't see a way out, and she made some decisions that maybe weren't in her best financial interest, and now she feels stuck again. So really helping her unravel what got her there and what choices she has to kind of back out of that situation she's in to take this other path. We can't undo what you did, we can't make better what maybe is broken, but what we can do is show you the choices that exist.

SPEAKER_01 39:37

Right, and I feel like when we're in when we're feeling trapped or vulnerable or in those emotional frames of mind, we don't make the best fiscal decisions for my gosh, right? I mean, those are not you know, you do need that kind of vo literal voice of reason in front of you saying, like, okay, this is the lay of the land, this is how you reacted to what just happened, and here's how we can move forward so you feel a little more in control and empowered in your situation because I will confess here that you know I am definitely I'm an emotional eater, and sometimes um I will shop, like uh to kind of distract myself, like online shopping, distract myself. And I mean a perfect example of that was during pandemic times, right? Because that's when my divorce was playing out. We were trapped, right? We were trapped in the in our homes, and you know, sky is falling, sky is falling frame of mind. I purchased a lot of things I didn't need, and I wish I could uh click, you know, um empty all those shopping cards back in time magically, and like I've literally had like a closet of shame where I had like all this stuff where you know it's like why, why did I get this? And can I sell it? It felt so good. Yeah, right, it felt good at the time, that little like dopamine hit, but then you're like, Can I sell this on Facebook Marketplace? So, so yeah, I think you know, as you say, as you both say, you know, you're addressing women in this time where they do feel very disempowered and vulnerable and are maybe not in a headspace to make entirely rational decisions all of the time because you're just kind of white knuckling through emotionally. So um, yeah, I think that kind of you know frequent contact with the both of you must make a world of difference.

SPEAKER_03 41:24

I think it helps. I think that people are just looking for a safe space. Um and again, we're not counselors, but we do a lot of talking. We do. Um our main job is to help people figure out their money, but I just strongly believe having been in this business for 20 years and seen it done when it's just investments. Oh, I just manage your investments, like you need to go over somewhere else. We manage their investments too, but we're also helping them figure out what kind of investments to have, what's gonna get them to point B, C, D, and E. What's gonna happen if they don't do that? You know, what's gonna happen if they do this? Can I leave my job? Well, let me see. Let's see what happens if you do that. Right. Right. I love that.

SPEAKER_02 42:09

I love that you know, you're empowering women, you're giving them choices. I think, you know, I'm I'm curious. Do you think having lived experience that gives you like that empathy and opportunity to be able to do that?

SPEAKER_00 42:28

100%, definitely. Having been through it. So when I think back to the emotional, financial decisions I made that were not smart decisions when I left my marriage, I was like, I look back and I still think, oh my gosh, if I had had someone like us to sit down with. So I sat down with a lawyer who didn't really take the time to understand me. He was older, he was like, cut your losses, take the debt, take his debt, cut your losses, get out. And I look back and I'm like, oh, that makes me so angry now. Like I should have fought, yeah, right? But it was just the emotional, like, I just need to get myself out of this situation at that point in time. Whereas I feel like if I had someone like us to like sit down and rationally explain, okay, well, this is why you should consider fighting or you shouldn't, right? And but he was just very black and white kind of thing.

SPEAKER_03 43:21

I think too though, like, if you're looking at say pensions, and that's a big thing when people are separating, you know, if there's one pension and how am I gonna like should I should I get that? Shouldn't I? Well, what if you don't want to fight? What if you don't want to go down that road, you don't want to spend the money in court, you don't want to deal with the emotional hangover that will exist for the rest of your life because you took somebody's pension. What do you need to do then? Because that's what I did. I I said, no, I want nothing. I want to do this myself, and this is I knew what I had to do. And and so it's not just saying, Well, yeah, you should do this. It's like if you don't. Then this is what you need to do. Yes, right. Right. And this can work too. Yeah. Right. Right. You need to earn more money, or you need to invest more money, or you need to take a completely different career path. Something has to change, but you don't have to do anything. And I think that, like you said, sometimes you can get into a legal talk when we're talking about what the law says, and we're not lawyers, as I've said, but there's also so much emotion attached to it that we can kind of like navigate all of that and help people see see the results that can or may or may not exist.

SPEAKER_02 44:36

Right. And I think that's so important because, like you said, sometimes the women aren't uh in their marriage, they were not the ones who were watching the investments, you know, they left it up to their partner or one part one partner. I'm not gonna say the man, but one partner in the relationship was taking care of the assets. Yeah. And then the the one that wasn't, they're kind of like, I don't even know what we have. Yeah and what do I do now? Right. And now where does that leave me if I'm 45 or 55 years old and we were planning to retire together? Where am I? Where do I sit? So suddenly single. Suddenly single, yeah. And uh, and I love the service that you offer women, I think it's incredible, and and uh, and I hope that who our listeners, you know, if you're going through a separation or divorce or contemplating a separation and divorce, and you know, you have investments that need to be moved over, you know, what a great opportunity, what a great service. I'm I'm definitely going to like, even though I'm gonna be embarrassed when you see my uh lack of my my lack of portfolio, and uh I have a great closet full of clothes, so like that's my portfolio. Yeah, they're still in the original boxes.

SPEAKER_03 46:02

Yeah, I think that's important to just remember this isn't about shaming people, this is about just people feeling comfortable enough to be able to say this is where I'm at. Yeah, and do I see light? Is there light?

SPEAKER_02 46:14

Right, and I and I think you know, one of the things I look back to, like when I left my husband in 2012, I had two small kids and I made $55,000 a year. Oh my goodness, right? And walked away from everything, like I did not come out with a penny, and so 13 years later, I'm okay, right? I'm okay, my kids are okay. You know, I was able to support my daughter mostly through university, and so you just have to like have a plan. I mean, I was an executive director, but I also cleaned houses on the side because I had to, right? I needed money.

SPEAKER_03 47:00

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:01

You gotta do what you gotta do in the moment, right? Yeah, yeah, and I I think um one thing that I think infuriates me, but I did the same thing when I was in the same situation, is I feel sometimes women are socially conditioned to be diplomatic, to be that calm force and to quash the conflict. And sometimes you give up vital parts of yourself and your financial future in order to do that, like you know, deciding to turn down spousal support, etc., where you just you want the fighting to end, you want to be on the other side of it, and I wish there were better supports for women navigating that process. Um, because there are absolutely a lot of old dude lawyers who will say, you know, just get through it, you know, just just give up XYZ, and there are other ways to go about it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:55

And I think um, so my daughter is a lawyer, and her husband is a lawyer, and they see a lot of of family law cases, and you know, you you think about the the lawyers, you know, they're well educated, they've got tons of experience, but I think being able to sit on the outside of that allows us to give that just just the support I think that somebody needs outside of that legal legal world because it is very cut and dry, black and white. Um, cut your losses, don't spend all the money on court, like there's all of that, but then if we can see where we're at and we can provide some clarity around what you can do with what you have, sometimes it allows people to step away without feeling like they've lost, right? Right? Like you may have given up that, but this is what you will have, and right seeing that makes I think makes a world of difference for people. Absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:54

And not only like seeing the financial side of it, but seeing how your future will be, you know, whether it's stress-free, you're independent, you know, you can make your own choices, you're not depending on somebody else, and you're happy. You might not have as much money, but you have more happiness. Oh my gosh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 49:15

Yeah, and there's hope on the other side, right? Like, I've I've met the best man I've ever known in my whole life. I've been with him for 12 years. He's he's the best man I've ever known. Yeah, she got a good one.

SPEAKER_00 49:27

Oh yeah, she got a good one. Yeah, and there's like that gives me hope.

SPEAKER_01 49:33

But I was gonna say too Cindy, Cindy teaches us your way.

SPEAKER_00 49:36

Yes, right.

SPEAKER_03 49:40

But I think, but I think had I you know left a relationship to go to another relationship to get someone else to solve my problems, right? Take care of you, that wouldn't have been the best relationship in the world, right? Yeah, so solving my own financial problems, getting my own self set up for success allowed me the space to find the right person for me.

SPEAKER_02 50:02

Right, because you're not looking at someone like, oh, can you take care of me?

SPEAKER_03 50:06

100%, right? You take care of each other. Right. We're in it together, right? You're financially independent, but you're in it together.

SPEAKER_02 50:13

And you're with them because you want to be with them. Not because you can't be able to get it.

SPEAKER_03 50:17

Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Absolutely big difference.

SPEAKER_01 50:21

Oh, I love that so much. Well, ladies, I don't know how we can end on a stronger note than that if I'm honest. It's a note of hope, right? It's been a roller coaster, we've been up and down uh with the uh aftermath of separation and divorce. But thank you so much, Cindy and Shauna, for being here. We learned a lot, and I think Donna and I both realized that we need to book you. Yeah, right. We do. Um, but yes, thank you. Thank you so much. Any final thoughts before we uh part?

SPEAKER_03 50:52

I think that we're just really pleased to be able to be here and share with other people what we do. Sometimes in our world, it can get, you know, just another financial advisor, you can get lost. Um so we've tried really hard to put ourselves in spaces with women like yourselves, women who will share our story and what we're doing to help people see clarity and live their lives, and we're part of that.

SPEAKER_01 51:17

If this episode resonated with you, you can get more she shed. You can follow us on Spotify, listen on iHeartRadio, or Apple Music. You can also follow us on Instagram at She Shed Unfiltered, all one word. This has been She Shed Unfiltered, where midlife isn't polished, it's real. From divorce and career pivots to perimenopause and everything no one warned us about. These are the honest conversations we've lived, survived, and shared with you today. Until next time, stay brave, be curious, and keep it unfiltered.

SPEAKER_03 51:57

That's good.