The Afternoon Pint Podcast: The Truth About Homeownership (And The Stories That Shape Us)

This week Donna stepped out of the Shed, and into the studio with the guys from The Afternoon Pint, and the conversation goes deeper than expected.

They unpack one of the most common misconceptions about Habitat for Humanity: Homes aren’t given away, families buy them.
But the model removes the very barriers that keep so many people stuck.

No down payments.
No high-interest loans.
Just a real, attainable path to homeownership.

From there, the conversation expands into what’s really happening in Nova Scotia right now, the “missing middle,” and why the gap between renting and owning is pushing more people further out of reach.

But this episode doesn’t stay at policy and systems.

It gets personal.

Donna shares the moments that led to the creation of She Shed Unfiltered—the heartbreak, the loss, and the friendships that carried her through it.
We talk about therapy, trust, rebuilding, and what it actually takes to start again.

Because at the end of the day, this isn’t just about housing.
It’s about stability. Identity. Community. And finding your way back to yourself.

If you’ve ever wondered what it really takes to build something, whether it’s a home or a life, this conversation will stay with you.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:01

Cheers! Cheers! Welcome to the Afternoon Play. I'm Mike Dobin. I'm Matt Conrad.

SPEAKER_00 0:06

And I'm Donna Williamson.

SPEAKER_02 0:08

Alright, Donna. All right. Who is Donna Williamson?

SPEAKER_00 0:12

Well, she is a mother, a daughter, a sister, a friend, a podcast creator and host, and a CEO of Habitat for Humanity Nova Scotia.

SPEAKER_02 0:27

That's pretty awesome. So it's a lot of things. A lot of things. A lot of things. Habitat for Humanity Nova Scotia. I mean I volunteered for Habitat for Humanity. I mean, I just got a tour before we came into here to see the restore. The restore, which is so cool. That's an awesome. I had so many ideas for my own home walking through it, like, man, I could do something with, you know, I have to do something in my bathroom light. What?

SPEAKER_00 0:51

Was that your first time in?

SPEAKER_02 0:52

A long time, but I never knew it went so deep. I only thought there was that. He was like, are we allowed to go back? Like if you want to buy things. Honestly, God, yeah. I didn't know you could actually go do like an entire warehouse at the back.

SPEAKER_00 1:03

Yes, 15,000 square feet.

SPEAKER_02 1:04

It's massive, yeah. Yeah. So all this goes towards building homes for folks, and I mean, there's a lot of misconceptions, and we'll get into them about Habitat for Humanity. But I mean, I think the cool on the on the coolest thing is like it builds homes for people in an innovative way where the person really um helps, you know, uh they they they they pay a mortgage, they they're part of the build process, they're part of every process along the way. It just gives them that little bit of extra help that they need uh to make uh unaffordable, entertainable homes affordable for some. Is that accurate?

SPEAKER_00 1:39

Yeah, absolutely. What we're doing is removing those barriers from because we still have to sell the homes at fair market value or regulate it under CRA.

SPEAKER_03 1:46

So yeah, I think that's what some people think, like we're just building homes and giving them to people. I think that's what people think.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

Well, that's the miss uh the misconception about habitat is people used to think we gave houses away, but we absolutely don't. We're just trying to create a pathway to homeownership, removing barriers, like uh a down payment. And uh we do have interest-free mortgages, so it really helps, you know, the middle class, you know, working class people who are trying to save up a down payment now, yeah, especially with the cost of housing, right? It's yeah, it's becoming although there is a few incentives now that um that are happening, but it's still a challenge, and then they have to volunteer.

SPEAKER_02 2:32

Yeah, thanks. I'll turn it over there too. No, no, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm always saying this.

SPEAKER_00 2:37

Um so they uh they they're required to do 500 volunteer hours. We hope that it's on the build site, but sometimes families are selected a little later in the build process. Okay, so they don't really have the opportunity to help build, but we it's mandatory that they volunteer in the community because it's about building community and a sense of community.

SPEAKER_02 3:01

So we're giving back, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:03

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 3:04

Cool, yeah, cool. How many homes do you guys think you might have uh built in Nova Scotia right now? Or is that a hard number to kind of grant get?

SPEAKER_00 3:10

In Nova Scotia, we've built 80 homes since we started. Our our we were building like one or two homes a year with volunteer labor, but we realize now that with the housing crisis that we really want to increase that impact. And how can we how can we increase the impact and still have that community feel the volunteer aspect? Uh, because I mean you when you think of habitat, you think of Jimmy Carter and a bunch of volunteers lifting up that frame for the outside of a house, right? And so we don't want to take that away, but we also know that building one or two homes a year isn't going to help with the the housing crisis.

SPEAKER_02 3:57

Well, it was a problem for 10 or 20 years ago, but I think it's the problems just changed so much in the last couple of years, right? Like it's changed so rapidly, too. So your entire charity model probably had to really say, oh gosh, we're what we used to have to do for people, we need to do a heck of a lot more now or do it differently.

SPEAKER_00 4:14

Exactly. Yeah, yeah, and with a focus, you know, it's really important that families have the right income to support the mortgage because we want families to be successful, right? We want families to have their house paid off in the 20 years that their term is for. And we also want them to be building that equity and that generational wealth because that is the purpose of home ownership. If not, everybody would be renting and and you're you know putting your money into rent. So, you know, really getting back to the essence of what home ownership not only does for the economy and the family or not just the families, but also the the the uh economy as a whole in your community.

SPEAKER_01 4:54

And and then I forgot before what bar are we at today? I forgot. What pub? We're at the Habitat for Humanity bar.

SPEAKER_03 4:59

Oh, so we're usually at a pub, but we got we got some cool craft beer at least. What do we have? We so uh habitat the restore is in Burnside. So come on down. Uh I do like it's true I got a tour here uh a couple weeks ago, and I actually totally misunderstood what the restore was for. I actually thought it was something that was like designed for people who were in need, kind of thing. So I never set foot in here up until a couple weeks ago, like a month, about a month ago. And then I got came here, had a little tour around, and was like, this is genius, this is awesome. So basically anyone can come here, get things for pretty discounted price, and all that money goes towards the help of people. Yeah, so lighting, tiles, I saw everything, electrical there, electricals, furniture. There was tables and chairs, everything, yeah. So we decide, yeah, we decided to do it here, and because you're in Burnside, just down the road is Burnside Brewing, so we got some Burnside Brewing beers just to kind of all support local.

SPEAKER_02 5:56

You're having their Killick Pilsner, which is one of my favorites. It's just a chill light beer, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Very, very crushable. And I've never had this one that way, you haven't.

SPEAKER_03 6:05

Yeah, so this is their milk stout. It's awesome, it's pretty toasty, man. I think you'd like it.

SPEAKER_02 6:09

Yeah, and I think you'd like this, dude. The uh the down south tropical lager. I never had that before.

SPEAKER_03 6:14

I haven't had that one either, I don't think. It's not bad. Yeah, not bad at all. There you go. So yeah. So back to uh back to this. So you were talking about homeownership, and so is the goal to house people or is the goal to create homeowners?

SPEAKER_00 6:30

Our goal is to create a pathway to homeownership. So homeownership, whether it is uh deferred homeownership, which is kind of like an equity building rent to own, or through straight home ownership, but it is a pathway to homeownership.

SPEAKER_03 6:46

Yeah, because that's I think another thing that people don't really realize is like what's the goal? Homeownership or just housing people. Because if your job is to house people, well, you could build a whole bunch of things and just house people, right? Some people may say that that could be a good way to go. I'm I'm kind of a socialistic capitalist, as you may say, whereas like I think it's okay to have rich people, but it's not okay to have poor people. Right. And you know, uh some of the things that other places in the world, other other jurisdictions in the world, is that like governments or not like not-for-profits or charitable organizations are actually building homes or or like you know, places to live, whether it be condos or things like that, and providing those to people so that nobody is homeless while still encouraging people to become millionaires, kind of thing. So yeah, like but I think that's the difference. Some people think like they they look at Habitat for Humanity and they're thinking, oh, they're just building homes. Yeah. And they're getting people in those homes and stuff like that. But your idea is not just to house them, but actually like lift them up into a different bracket.

SPEAKER_00 7:50

Exactly. Yeah. And I mean home ownership changes the whole uh like uh pathway to like whether it's education or health, or you know, I I'm actually so passionate about it because I grew up, my parents divorced when I was seven, and um my family moved back from Dartmouth to Picto County. And my mother was very fortunate in the mid-70s. CMHC had a program where low-income families could purchase a brand new house, no down payment, and the first five years were subsidized. Without that program, my mom and my two sisters we would never have owned a home. My mom was a stay-at-home mom when my parents got divorced and started washing dishes at the hospital, in the Aberdeen hospital. She would never have been able to afford that. That changed our entire life, right? You know, from moving from rentals, living with our grandparents, moving from rentals, and uh and that home now, my sister owns it and she raised her son in it, right? So it's it's pretty cool what how home ownership can really change your life and the path that and you never know where people could end up being.

SPEAKER_03 9:03

I mean, you can always overcome things, but it's harder to overcome things. Like, you know, if say who knows, like, you know, maybe you're not CEO of this of Habitat for Humanity because your single mother like single parent mother had to go somewhere else, live somewhere else, be in an environment that was not always like maybe the best. People don't realize how environment can really kind of you never know what you're kind of pushing down on people and in and you know, ruining that mentality, right?

SPEAKER_02 9:32

Is this why you think you kind of got into this role eventually? Like what did you do before this becoming like uh CEO of this organization?

SPEAKER_00 9:40

Well, for the last 22 years, I I spent in not-for-profit in a like executive director or CEO role. Okay, wow. Yeah, I I originally started out in like finance and marketing, and uh and then when I had my daughter 22 years ago, I'm like, I want to be a stay-at-home mom. Like, you know, I think you know, that's kind of that was my goal. And my ex-husband and I set it up so that I was able to stay home. And I was home for a year, and somebody approached me uh that had worked with me. I used to work at Neptune Theater, and they approached me and said, you know, I I'm on this board of directors for this organization, and we're looking for an executive director. And I'm like, Oh, I'm a stay-at-home mom, I don't want to work. And they're like they said to me, Um, well, we just need someone to come in and do some change management change management and transitioning, and you would be the best person. And I'm like, I don't even know what that means. Like, how am I the best person when I don't even know what that means? Yeah, and uh so anyway, I I gave in and I said, you know what, I'll do it. It was November. I said, I'll do it until the end of March, and then I want to be a stay-at-home mom. Anyway, I stayed there for seven years. Oh my god. And I moved on to another not-for-profit, was there for five years, moved on uh into a national organization.

SPEAKER_02 10:57

What was this first test, this change management position? What were they trying to get you to do if you can think back?

SPEAKER_00 11:01

Kind of well, they were in a deficit, running a deficit. Um, they had never had anyone run the organization with a business background, it was uh, you know, a social work background. And um and they had two locations. Overhead was really expensive, and uh so they just asked me, you know, if I could kind of do another. Look at it from a business mindset and see if you could make it work.

SPEAKER_01 11:25

Exactly. Make it stay afloat.

SPEAKER_00 11:27

Yeah, and uh, and you know, I was really fortunate we were able to do that, and when I left that organization, you know, we had a nice investment uh savings account, and so really proud of that legacy. It was actually in uh Spryfield. We did a we did uh it was at the time it was a single parent center in the home of the guardian angels, so it was an adoption agency and a family resource center. Cool. So the new building, I don't know if you're I know you've done some stuff out there. The single parent center was this tiny rundown bungalow, and we needed a renovation, and so I'm like, you know what, I'm gonna run a capital campaign for six weeks, try to raise as much money as I can.

SPEAKER_02 12:08

Like if we could raise fifty and this was before the days of social media, right? Before the days of social media.

SPEAKER_00 12:15

Oh, a lot of like letters and knocking on doors, but I my goal was to raise fifty thousand in six weeks, and we raised two hundred and fifty thousand. Holy smokes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:26

Wow, wow, and knocking on doors and letters and people just saw value in it.

SPEAKER_00 12:30

And just asking them, like inviting them to come and tour the facility because it it really needed to be.

SPEAKER_02 12:36

That makes them a part of it.

SPEAKER_00 12:37

Right. Yeah, and so they would see like I'd take them in and show them the child care room with the leak in the ceiling and show them like you know, five staff and one little tiny office, and uh and so they all brilliant more than what I asked for. And I mean, that building every time I drive down the Herring Cove Road and I see that blue building that you know I was a part of that renovation. That's so cool.

SPEAKER_02 13:01

Yeah, I drive past that every day. Every day? Right, yeah, that's amazing.

SPEAKER_03 13:04

I'm I'm running I'm running a campaign right now. I think I want Donna to join my team.

SPEAKER_02 13:09

Holy smokes. Yeah, yeah. So no, yeah, Matt's running a fundraising campaign right now. Uh for flood key. Yeah, yeah, the key and lymphoma. So yeah. So there you go. That's that's amazing. So, but like, I mean, there's a lot of uh kind of good lessons in there, like you know, applying a business mindset to charity sometimes, because you know, when we have all the past in the world, sometimes that can fall to us and we're trying to do everything, but how do we make it make sense? Like, you know, and keep it going.

SPEAKER_00 13:35

Because it is a business, just you know, we are we we're delivering services, but we have to have that business mindset. If not, we're not gonna make it, we're not gonna have that sustainability. Yeah, and it was very interesting, you know, going there. I remember the first time going there, and you know, I I'm I was used to the financial industry, so we had to dress up all the time. Yeah, and I dressed down, but I wasn't in I wasn't like I am today.

SPEAKER_04 13:59

Right.

SPEAKER_00 13:59

Um, and I you know, I was driving you know a newer vehicle, and people when I went in there, they're like, You have no idea. You know, you you're you've come from a uh a place of privilege. You drive in here with your SUV and your nice clothes, and I'm thinking, you have no idea what my background is. Right, right. Yeah, and and something else.

SPEAKER_02 14:18

It's really funny when you put a suit on sometimes and you go to certain events, people assume that you're an entirely different person. If they're looking from the outside, they just see that person going up the up the stairwell in a suit or in a dress, or you know, exactly. They don't always look and see that that person might have been through the exact same troubles and found a different path. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:36

I mean there's you know, there's there's different privileges, obviously. There's there's visual privileges and then non-visual privileges and that. So that's the thing. It's uh yeah. It's it it leads to an interesting conversation about like how should someone uh like should it be someone like yourself in those roles versus someone who has never lived those? Right? Like do you have to be in order to be in a role that's helping people lift people out of like in a housing crisis, do you need someone who has lived through that, do you think?

SPEAKER_00 15:09

I don't think you need somebody who's lived through it. I think it you know, I have a little bit of an advantage, maybe, but I have to tell you, in the 22 years that I've been working in not-for-profit, it's been my teams that have really taught me, right? They're the ones working the front line. And so, you know, I might come in with a certain perception and they're like, Donna, like you have you know, it's it's A or B. Like you're why are you doing C? And I'm like, oh, that makes a lot of sense. That makes a lot of sense to me. And so um I have to say, like, I feel really grateful and fortunate that I've learned so much from the people I've worked with in every different role I've had in the not-for-profit world because I'm learning every single day. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:54

So, like now, what's like going back to today? I mean, uh what's the path forward for habitat for humanity now, in your opinion? Like with the homes and the buildings and you know, the way things have changed.

SPEAKER_00 16:08

Right. Well, for us, like we're really looking at again, it's that impact, and how can we do it? Like everybody wants to be able to do it, do more, do it faster, right? So, really what we're looking for are partnerships with uh either different not-for-profits uh developers because we're really looking at more of a a turnkey unit with aspects of volunteering. So we don't want to take that away. But we do know that if we continue to build the way we've been building, we're not going to build any more than you know, the one or two houses a year. So you have to change what you you're doing if you want the outcome to change.

SPEAKER_02 16:47

Are we in the path now where the only way forward is like m like I saw yesterday, like the micro homes or whatever you want to call them? Yeah, that's what I was getting. Is this the only path forward now where we see these like you know, so many mini homes out there was there was a company in Nova Scotia that was producing a home every two weeks or something for a period of time? I just read about it the other day, and it's I can't cite the article because I don't remember it's a good thing.

SPEAKER_03 17:07

That's something and like kind of a B side to that question because that's what I was wondering too, is like is there anywhere where you guys are building like say like condos that you could sell people as opposed to just full single-family homes?

SPEAKER_00 17:18

It's in our radar. Okay, there's other affiliates across habitat affiliates across Canada that are definitely in the in the condo path, yeah, especially in the larger cities like that.

SPEAKER_03 17:28

That's what I was wondering, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:29

Yeah, Abbott in or Toronto, like yeah, it's gonna be pretty hard to get a house for for anyone almost at this point. Right? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:35

You can you can be making really good money if you can't afford a house. Yeah, making amazing money if you can't afford a house there.

SPEAKER_00 17:41

I know, right? Yeah, yeah. So um, but to get back to your question about like the micro mini homes, that's not the market we're in, right? Those are really like the um deeply affordable or rentals. We are very focused on home ownership and on the middle class. And so we're looking at you know m more diversity in what we're building, so not always a three-bedroom home. Maybe it's a two-bedroom townhouse, or maybe you know, just maybe it's stackable townhouses and you have a mix of one and two bedrooms, maybe a three-bedroom, because you know, we've also redefined what a family looks like.

SPEAKER_03 18:20

So that was another thing I was gonna ask about like is it just for families, or can a single person apply for it? Like it's just someone who's like on their own, like what does the demographic look like for people who can like apply to get a home?

SPEAKER_00 18:33

Right. Um, so a few years ago, our definition of a family was somebody who had children. We've changed that because that is not the reality of our world anymore. So uh as long as you self-identify as a family, so maybe it's you know, a mom and nine cats. And nine cats, right? Yeah, right on. Okay, yeah, yeah. Yeah, not seven. Yeah. Nine. But but you know, a lot of families are for babies. Yeah. Fur babies. Yeah, right. Yeah. I don't know if my kids will ever leave the house now because they'll never be able to afford one.

SPEAKER_02 19:13

Well, that's that's something I think about too. Like, we're raising somebody now too. She's she's 14, and I'm like, gosh, well now she wants to be a doctor, so I think we're gonna be all right.

SPEAKER_03 19:22

Oh, she's gonna take care of you.

SPEAKER_02 19:22

Yeah, she might take care of she just knows I'm gonna fall apart in two years. Yeah. But uh, but yeah, no, it's like, you know, thinking about that, like it's it's it's it's unaffordable now, right? And it's not getting better, right? I don't see a path forward here. So maybe what Habitat's doing is the right thing to still advocate for ownership. And I mean, it's something honestly I didn't really think about before sitting here today. Like ownership is that's a really important part, because once everyone loses ownership, and what what's next? And everyone's just renting, or everyone's just yeah, we're going away from a a mortgage world at that point.

SPEAKER_03 19:59

And we I I think we do need like people to build like lower income housing or housing that people are gonna just gonna rent and everything. It's a different mission though, right? Uh getting people to ownership is actually allowing them to build wealth because they're building equity, which means that they're something to give to that you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_02 20:16

If if they uh pass it down or if they have the ability to pass it down to the next generation or whatever.

SPEAKER_03 20:22

Not everyone can afford that though, right? Like if they're if you're working for minimum wage, not everyone can afford that. But those people still need houses or they need homes, right? Whatever that looks like, whether it be mini homes or condos or apartments or whatever. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:36

I mean I mean, I don't know. I mean, it there would be a nice way to see, and we're just just talking freely here, like, you know, a way for everyone to acquire ownership towards something at some point in their lives. Like, you know, may and maybe that's just an impossible equation right now. But like, you know, the thing is is we're so far away from that now, we're almost at the polar opposite right now, right? Which is a scary thing. Like, so it'd be nice to see that pendulum start to swing the other way, where more people can have ownership of their homes or their conduits, wherever the heck it is.

SPEAKER_00 21:05

Or at least the option, right? Yeah, just to have the option to be a homeowner. Yeah. And you know, and if we're building, because I think every with the housing continuum, every part of that continuum is important. But if if one of those um uh blocks get pulled out, then there's you're stuck. So right now we are stuck between you know, rental and market housing. And so that's where habitat comes in. We need that bridge. And if we can build affordable homeownership and pathways for people, even if they're in a habitat home for 10 years, they build their equity, they can move into the mar the the open market, and then the person who's in the market rental can move into a habitat home. So you just keep the continuum moving, but right now. You know, we've almost pulled out that missing it's the missing middle. You'll hear that term all the time. Missing middle. And you know, when growing up, our parents were people at least mine were middle class. And homeownership ev like I I don't think I knew anybody who was renting when I grew up in the 80s.

SPEAKER_02 22:22

If you were middle class, you had a home.

SPEAKER_00 22:24

You had a home.

SPEAKER_02 22:24

No, that's that's very true.

SPEAKER_03 22:27

Yeah, renting was you know for younger people or maybe single people or something like that. Yeah. But if you were married and had kids, but married, just even just married a lot oftentimes, you had a home. Right? You had a house that you were buying, right? Yeah. It's true.

SPEAKER_00 22:44

Yeah. And like we're getting to the point. I have a 31-year-old son, and he was living off the Herring Cove Road, and he ended up he was his rent just kept going up and up and up, and he ended up moving to Toronto and has a better wage. Doing the same you know, working in uh as a chef has a a better wage in Toronto, but lives in a really nice area of Toronto and pays the same amount he was paying on Harring Cove Road.

SPEAKER_02 23:10

And what was he paying in Harring Cove Road?

SPEAKER_00 23:12

So he was living uh on Macintosh Street. Oh, yeah, I know, yeah. And when he first moved into the two-bedroom, it was thirteen hundred, and then it went up to twenty-one fifty. Whew!

SPEAKER_02 23:23

Twenty-one fifty when he left. And how long was he there for, do you know? Or can you remember?

SPEAKER_00 23:28

A few he was there for a few years. So only a few years. Only a few years. Yeah, and so they're ludicrous. Isn't that crazy?

SPEAKER_02 23:34

2100. And do you think his income went up that to that ratio that he would be able to supplement that being a chef? Honestly, it it hasn't. There's no way it would have.

SPEAKER_03 23:43

And I'm gonna be like, you know, no, like I from the Spryfield region, Macintosh, no place in Macintosh should be twenty one hundred dollars. Like, let's be honest here. They're older buildings and things like that. Like no, you're not newly developing a little bit of love in that area, right? Yeah, yeah. Right? Like that's that's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 24:01

Right, and I think anybody would agree with that, right? I know Macintosh too. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:06

So I mean it, you know, they've done the lipstick on the inside, of course, right? It looks nice, the apartment looked nice, but to go from thirteen hundred to twenty one hundred, I was gonna say thousands. It's expensive paint. Yeah, it's a really expensive paint.

SPEAKER_03 24:24

Yeah, uh so I uh that that's that is really unfortunate. Um, because one, we lose somebody who's you know going somewhere else. Um also, you know, I think of it like as a parent, I think of it as like, well, I want my kid to stay here, right? Like selfishly. Right, absolutely. I want my kid to stick around, right? Right. So as a parent, you don't want to lose your kid to somewhere else.

SPEAKER_02 24:46

And and and and and I mean it's somewhat natural for kids to fantasize about living somewhere else when they grow up, but at the same time, to think that it's impossible to live where they're growing up at in their teenage years is also an equally kind of crappy thing to think that there's no opportunity where they are because it's too expensive, they can't do what they want, and you know, it's too tough.

SPEAKER_03 25:09

And and what's it's particularly uh, you know, like what makes me kind of a little bit upset about it is that we're actually seeing rents come down across the country, except in Halifax. So there's something else going on here. Like they're saying, like, I've heard some things where like, oh yeah, rent's coming down a little bit, or they're offering certain things, right? Like, you know, apparently, apparently, I'm not in the rental market, but apparently they are we're seeing I've heard that we're going back to that, like, oh, first month free what we used to you know, I was renting like 10-11 years ago. Oh yeah. They're back to that here.

SPEAKER_02 25:46

But like that's because they can't get people in the door anymore with a double down payment, right?

SPEAKER_03 25:51

Well, you you're legally only allowed to have half a payment month's payment. Or whatever it is. But even still, giving someone a month free and then turning around and charging them like $2,100 for a one-bedroom apartment, it's not worth it. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:07

And then the other thing that I mean, you know, today too, we have to talk about like people also, I mean, in life or in love, you might decide you not you don't want to live with your other partner the other day at some point, or you might break up and then like, you know, you want safe avenues for people that they decide, hey, if uh me and my partner aren't working out, my life shouldn't be immediately over, right? Because it's like, you know, because how can a single person afford that anymore? You almost need a dual income to survive.

SPEAKER_03 26:35

Are you trying to segue to her podcast? Is that what that was?

SPEAKER_02 26:38

Which is a perfect segue to your podcast. Well, it is. Why don't we just go right there? Because I think that I don't think there'd be a better time to do that. No, that's a perfect podcast. Let's do it. Yeah, yeah, we yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:51

So talk a little bit about your podcast. That was really, really good, man. Thank you. So yeah, you have a podcast.

SPEAKER_00 26:57

I do, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:59

Competing with us too.

SPEAKER_00 27:00

Yeah, thanks for having me on. Thanks for the beer. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:04

What I like about your podcast is that, and I said this to you, is that you know, since we're all having some drinks here, uh, I like that your podcast also encourages drinking. Because in the first episode, like three or two, three minutes in, it was like, these are the conversations that we have after the second glass of wine. And I was like, okay, I think I'm gonna like this.

SPEAKER_02 27:22

It's cooler than us. We're like basically just cracking our first one. I know. They're already lit.

SPEAKER_00 27:27

The wine glasses are smaller. These are tall cans. Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:30

So, yeah, tell us about your podcast. Tell us, you know, what inspired it and and what it's all about.

SPEAKER_00 27:34

Yeah, well, it's called the She Shed Unfiltered. And uh I recently, well, a year ago, went through a breakup. Not only a breakup, my uh my car caught fire, wasn't insured, uh, my well collapsed, it was $34,000 to fix, and my sister passed away very suddenly of cancer.

SPEAKER_02 27:54

So you had all the shit happen at once.

SPEAKER_00 27:56

All the shit happened at once. Oh man. And my friends, especially after my my ex-partner just got up and and left um without any kind of conversation, I fell apart. Like literally fell apart.

SPEAKER_03 28:11

Oh, rightfully so. That's a lot of things.

SPEAKER_00 28:13

Yeah, and my friends came over and literally picked me up, came in and checked on me every single day and made sure I was okay and supported me.

SPEAKER_02 28:24

Amazing.

SPEAKER_00 28:24

And and my co-workers the same. Like I would show up at work, not maybe 40%, and they were there supporting me. So, you know, I'm so grateful for that. And then the other side was that we had a tool shed in our backyard that we had a dartboard and a fridge, and we would go out there on a Friday night. We called it Nelly's. Our dog was Nelly.

SPEAKER_03 28:48

And uh Dirty Nelly's is gonna sue you, no.

SPEAKER_00 28:52

Our dog was named after Dirty Nelly. Oh, no way. Okay, there you go. Yeah, and so we'd just make a joke, you know, I'd come home, we'd come home, we're like, hey, do we wanna do you wanna go to Nelly's for the night? And we're like, yeah, let's go to Nelly's. So we'd just hang out there and our friends love to come out. And after he left, I couldn't go in the shed. So I'd go there and I would just fall apart and and cry. And I thought, I'm gonna have to burn this down or like tear it down because it's just too hard to see it. And it was a you know, a day in June, I think it was just after my birthday, and I'm like, fuck this. I'm gonna go out and buy some pink paint. And I bought pink paint, paint at the door, and then it just started, and I'm like, it's it started to become like a safe place for me. And and I would sit there, and my friends would come over, and we would just shit uh sit and talk and just talk about like anything. Like sometimes I would cry, and sometimes it would be laughing, and and then I just thought I could never have done this without my friends, and and then I'm like, maybe I'm gonna write a book. Like I wanna do something to like tell my story more as like a healing journey, but also to help other people. And then I'm like, I'm gonna do a podcast. Yeah, and and so that's how the podcast came about. It was more of how like I want other people to know that they have support, and I was very fortunate to have an amazing group of friends and an amazing group of coworkers, but not everybody is that fortunate.

SPEAKER_04 30:24

Right.

SPEAKER_00 30:25

And so our the what we talk about are like real things, real conversations, and they're hard. Some of them are hard, and you know, afterwards, you know, I do feel like you know, I might cry or I might reflect and go like God, I've come a long way in 12 months, right?

SPEAKER_03 30:41

Do you know uh in your first episode, something that um that I like really took away that I thought was really interesting, too, ki I guess kind of two things is uh one you talked about how um men should be seeking help more, which I thought was really important because a lot of people are gonna think of this like as like oh we're just gonna drink wine and like shit on men.

SPEAKER_00 31:03

But we don't do that once. We are maybe not. It's not uh like a man bashing.

SPEAKER_03 31:08

No, it's not, it really isn't. I mean, I didn't feel that way listening to that in the first episode. In fact, actually encouraging people to go get help, I think, is a good thing. Um, and so that's one uh and because you talked about how um people who like are the victims of people who hurt people, like the people who hurt people should probably be the ones going and get help, but it's more often the victims of the people who like get the hurt, yeah, who seek the help kind of thing, right? And how much better of a society could we be if like the people who are hurting who want to hurt others just couldn't got the help, right? Right. So I thought that was really interesting. Um and um the uh because I actually with Mike and I getting diagnosed in the last year with ADHD, I actually did a like a 14-week long uh therapy session. Is that done now? Done. Did you get a certificate?

SPEAKER_00 32:01

I'm now ADHD.

SPEAKER_02 32:04

You mean like certified? Well, we were both certified. We got we both got certified last year. Do you get like a like a diploma?

SPEAKER_03 32:11

Yeah, I think I think they I could have filled for whatever. Yeah, I think you get something, but I don't anyway. But one of the things that you talked about on the podcast I was something that I actually brought up in the session because we were talking about different personality types and things like that, um, and defense mechanisms. Anyway, um you talked about uh narcissism and how you questioned yourself whether you would be an if you are a narcissist or not. And you know what the funny thing is is that I brought that up in my sessions because I was like, like sometimes I do so many things, right? And I'm kind of like, am I making like life about me a lot? Because I am doing so many things, and I'm like, right where my brain goes. And I was like, you know, am I a narcissist? Do I think everything should be around me? And the therapist said, The fact that you are asking that of yourself means you are not a narcissist. Because a narcissist would never ask that about yourself. They would just do that.

SPEAKER_00 33:09

They would never see that characteristic, and yeah, yeah, and that's what my therapist told me because I'm like, what did I do wrong?

SPEAKER_02 33:15

Maybe because you know, whoa, so I'm not a narcissist, Jack, because I've done the same thing, I've done the exact same thing both of you just said. I've I've actually said, like, you know, because I look at you I get YouTube ads. They're like, are you a narcissist? And then I'm like doing like, you know, it wants to me to do a quiz or something, right?

SPEAKER_00 33:33

And uh, but no, no, I I I'm not totally trust the YouTube narcissists. Those ads.

SPEAKER_03 33:41

You don't see those? No, no, never not. Oh, okay. But I'm just saying, like, probably don't trust those. Yeah, I know, no.

SPEAKER_00 33:48

We're all gonna have those ads come up on our phone.

SPEAKER_03 33:51

Are you a narcissist? Yeah. Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna get that along with the big data.

SPEAKER_02 33:55

But I read a lot about stuff certain psychology architect our archetypes, and I watch a lot of YouTube videos around all that stuff. So it's probably why the no, that's really interesting. So so you looked at that yourself?

SPEAKER_00 34:10

Well, yeah, I I I mean, I was going to therapy like every week. Good for you. And I'm I was starting to like, what's what did I do wrong? Why, why won't he talk to me about it?

SPEAKER_01 34:20

So you beat yourself up because of it.

SPEAKER_00 34:22

I was beating myself up, and I'm like, was I was I not supportive enough? Was I, you know, my job takes a lot, and I come home and I do talk about work a lot, right? I'm just like, and sometimes it's like, oh my god, like we did this today, it was so good, it was this, it was that. Like, and then I'm like, Could I ask you this?

SPEAKER_02 34:41

Like, when you said those things, like, was your partner like, oh yeah, wow, excited, or was he like kind of like I wish you'd shut the fuck up?

SPEAKER_00 34:47

Um he usually uh cut me off and tell and would tell me about a similar situation he had. So I was never really able to finish what I was saying because it was like, oh no, I like that like that happened, a similar thing happened to me. And in my head, I would be like, Would you just shut up? No. But I I think that you when somebody leaves you abruptly, or when somebody betrays you in any way, you start to question yourself, right? You start to question like what's wrong with you. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 35:26

I think I I would do the same thing.

SPEAKER_00 35:27

Yeah, right. What could I like? What did I do? Like, why couldn't he have like given me like after seven years, why couldn't he have given me the respect to at least say like this is why? Rather than every time I try to reach out, he's like, I don't have the energy for this right now. Like, just give me space, just do this. And so after three or four weeks, you're like, okay, he's not talking. Obviously, he's wants it, right? But it does like it. I was a pretty confident person. It it it kind of rattles you, right? Sure. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:59

No, that makes sense. I mean, yeah. I mean, I think for the most part, unless I guess you're a narcissist. Um well it sounds like a maturity issue of some sort.

SPEAKER_02 36:07

Like, you know, I mean you gotta kinda give people the respect even if you're even if it's a hard conversation.

SPEAKER_00 36:12

And so it's an avoidant, uh a characteristic of an avoidant, which I didn't even know until I started therapy. Yeah. And I was like, what's an avoidant? And I'm like, oh that makes kind of sense. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_03 36:23

Yeah, we went through all that too. There's there's like eight or no, ten different types of like things that people do to like this course that you did defense mechanism. I think I have them. I have them in the notes somewhere on my phone, but because I took them all down because like it's like they got they asked you to like reflect um on yourself, and like I totally like I like compartmentalize a hundred percent, right? Um I uh definitely like I'm someone who likes who kind of likes to deflect kind of thing, right? It's kinda like no no no, let's let's not worry about that. Like I don't like to live in like the unhappy or like I'm like I'm that way, where I'm just kinda like that's not that's not that's unhappy, like let's not live there kind of thing. Cause I yeah, it's just I'm generally try to be always in a happy mood kind of thing. But uh definitely de like I compartmentalize so I can easily put things in boxes and just move on.

SPEAKER_02 37:22

People think I'm weird because I like living in like like I like being pissed off about something for a minute. I'm like, you wanna just let me be pissed off about this for a minute, and that's gonna help me get over it because like you know, having emotions towards things is okay. Like, you know, like I really and I taught myself to do that, like I didn't know how to do that, but like being like we had example this morning, I was mad about something you know about this. I won't get into it in the show. No, but it was like without me being mad about it, it wouldn't have gotten resolved, right? You know, so I was like, we're gonna talk about this. And I I but first I had to state how would you do this comment? Now I'm I've been meditating a lot this year, right?

SPEAKER_00 38:00

Like, so we got you meditated before you like I meditated before I saw his text.

SPEAKER_02 38:06

He Matt showed me something and just like sat me. He like you wouldn't know. I was I was pissed when I saw it. Probably too mad, which I still gotta work on, but but he got more mad than I really thought.

SPEAKER_03 38:18

I was annoyed, I was like, this is bullshit, but like he was just like I'm gonna write this person. And I did, but two hours later.

SPEAKER_02 38:27

Yeah, so you pause. I had to wait, I had to say, okay, the the you can't go at this like you're you know 19 years old and uh it was a fight outside a pub. And you have to kind of do it with a certain sensibility. So it's like, how are you going to articulate this that you're not trying to decimate somebody while you're just trying to deliver a message? So I had to stop, think, and then I did it. And I did it well. I I I think I or you what did I do well? Do you think well? I did I do it well? You saw it firsthand.

SPEAKER_03 38:55

I I mean so far so good.

SPEAKER_02 38:57

You could just be honest. Like if you think it was too hard.

SPEAKER_03 38:59

Do you think do you think I wouldn't be honest with you? Like honestly, I don't know. Do you think I wouldn't tell you?

SPEAKER_00 39:05

No, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_03 39:07

I would easily, like, I any chance I can shit on him, I'll take it. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:11

I was pretty calm in my response, I think. No, no, I I think it was fine. It took took my time with it, yeah. So I think it's fine. That's part of growing though.

SPEAKER_03 39:20

I getting mad is yeah, exactly. But getting mad, I you know, I I like getting mad.

SPEAKER_02 39:26

I like getting mad. I do, I do, I like it. I miss it when I don't get mad.

SPEAKER_00 39:29

It feels good, right?

SPEAKER_02 39:30

It's not really yeah, and like isn't it nice to sometimes have an enemy? Like, I mean, I know that sounds terrible to say, but like sometimes it's really nice not to like like this is another thing I learned.

SPEAKER_03 39:42

Maybe you can notice people with ADHD thrive off of spite. Okay. It's a motivator for people with ADHD. Spite.

SPEAKER_02 39:51

That makes sense for my whole life. Me too. I was like, I don't like having enemies.

SPEAKER_00 39:55

I like I'm just all about like, let's all be friends.

SPEAKER_02 39:58

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. But you like it's comp it's complicated, Don. Like, it's like, you know, we all want to be friends. You're like, we're all in the same show. Yeah, this whole show is about friends and it's about bringing people into the center and like kind of like trying to uh make people agree, even people that disagree politically or religiously or whatever, it's not like that.

SPEAKER_00 40:20

Yeah, but enemies are good because they kind of feed a little bit of your little bit of your right, and you're yeah, and I mean I'm I'm uh you know a poor kid from a small town, so you're always trying to prove something, right? So the more like when someone says you can't do it, or like you'll never be able to do that, it makes you fight a little bit. Yeah, 100%, yeah. Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_02 40:42

Yeah, yeah. It's my favorite thing, like you know, and it felt good to be mad this morning because I didn't get mad much these days, but pretty relaxed.

SPEAKER_03 40:49

I I'm I am of two people, and I think I've probably said this on on the show before a little while ago, but I'm of two people. I will I I am very uh, you know, kind of sensitive to people who may be going through a rough time and have different range of emotions, and like anyone's ever worked for me, like as a manager. Um, people have always felt comfortable talking to me and I've always wanted to guide them through and blah blah blah. That being said, I don't actually apply those rules to myself. I don't, I know I don't.

SPEAKER_02 41:15

So Donald, we asked you after you you you so do you feel or not feel that it's good to have an enemy sometimes?

SPEAKER_00 41:20

Like to in your own, do you do you feel like a little like you uh I think it's uh maybe I wouldn't maybe label it as an enemy, but I think it's uh good to have somebody who challenges you. Yeah, right? And and and pushes you outside your comfort zone. Um I I mean I feel like I have an enemy now, and uh that just pisses me off. But um, but no, absolutely. I think it's always good to have somebody who I mean I love being challenged, right? I don't like someone to say like yes all the time, yes, dear, or yes. Like challenge me. Just like show me why I should change my opinion, or show me like show me why you're right and I'm not, right?

SPEAKER_02 42:05

Right? And you don't need that all the time.

SPEAKER_00 42:07

No, but you do need a little bit of fire, right? You have a little bit of fire.

SPEAKER_02 42:10

Everybody, I think everybody, I think it's good.

SPEAKER_00 42:12

Yeah, I absolutely agree.

SPEAKER_02 42:13

Yeah, a lot of good arguments, yeah. Me too. Oh yeah, like Matt and I made friends over arguing at it. That's true. Like 20 years ago, like our friendship was a dispute. Like it started off he was uh politics, he was on one side of the tracks, I was on the other at the time, and uh, and and that's literally where the how the ball got rolling. I'm like, why do you think that, buddy? Like, and then it did not start off nice. It was started off by I mean, you know, but the thing was is like I loved him immediately because I'm like, okay, cool. He's not like backing down or he's not getting, you know, he he's engaging and you can't hurt my feelings, basically. You can't, and but but you know, he's smart about it. He was he was he was very intellectual about like you know what we were arguing with, whatever it was at the time, and uh was just like ah that's that's cool. I made a friend.

SPEAKER_03 42:59

Well, I and I think that's why this show works, is because Mike and I are both curious uh about knowing about lots of different things. Yep. It it you know, we generally want to come and talk to people, and and uh, you know, where some people are just like you know, they get their blinders on, and it's just like this is all I know, or this is all I care about, and that's it. And that's not us. We're like, let's talk to everybody. That's why we when we were telling you you did the right thing for your podcast, like you picked a niche and you went like that's podcasting one-on-one. Pick a niche, stick to it, because every week those same people are gonna show up because they know what they're getting. That is not our show. You will show up and you'll be like, what are they talking about this time? And that is because we can't stick to one thing. But back to you to compliment your joke, because we need to get way off.

SPEAKER_02 43:44

No more talking about us.

SPEAKER_03 43:46

I was saying she did the right thing with the podcast.

SPEAKER_02 43:48

You definitely did the right thing with your show to kind of have a focus. You're helping people that you know in life, you know, we have these sudden upsets, and everything bad can possibly happen. And you like dawned by the sounds of things, done everything. Right. You've raised your kids. You're still working for an incredible job here, doing an incredible thing for people, right? You know? We feel in life we don't deserve stuff sometimes. And things just the the whole cart up upsets our way and we gotta pick up the pieces kind of thing and start over. And it's like it's too late for this stuff, right? Like, you know, I don't want to deal with this now in life.

SPEAKER_00 44:22

Right. Yeah, I'm like 55. Right. So I'm like, man, I thought like I was gonna get to the point where life is gonna get easy.

SPEAKER_02 44:30

But I think uh it also you know it keeps you going and and yeah, in a sense it's good because if it wasn't authentic, then I mean, you know, you're living a more authentic version of yourself now, which is inherently better, right?

SPEAKER_00 44:42

Right and you're learning, like you learn from everything that happened in your life, right? And and like this 2025, like I said, was just horrific, and the loss of my sister was you know absolutely devastating. She's my my best friend.

SPEAKER_02 44:57

How did your sister pass away?

SPEAKER_00 44:58

She had pancreatic cancer. And uh hit her quick, kind of deal. Hit her very quick. She ended up she was supposed to start chemo on the ninth of September and then had an infection, and she ended up going to emergency on the twenty first of September. They admitted her, they weren't quite sure what happened. The Monday she was okay, Tuesday she was like, she wasn't really like she was seen like having some hallucinations, like, oh, she saw her dead dog outside the hospital window. And uh by Thursday she was in palliative care. On the Friday, they told us that uh she had like days left. And then so that was uh and she passed away on October 2nd, and it was just it was just very close, close, I guess. We were super close, like she was my biggest cheerleader, my my support person. Right. And um, and yeah, so it was really tough. And then like right after that, my my dog Nellie was diagnosed with terminal cancer, so I just lost her two weeks ago. Oh wow. Oh yeah, yeah. So it's been like how how old was Nelly? She was six. She had terminals. Yeah. What kind of dog was Nellie? A golden retriever. Okay. Yeah. Beautiful best. Yeah, yeah. She was a sweet girl, and she came to work every day with me. So they did on her final day here, they did a little photo shoot with her, and all the staff and volunteers were saying their goodbye. It was like very emotional. But um yeah, so so my uh, you know, I started the podcast, but I started a company called Nellie and Co. Creative Studio. And so under the under that umbrella is the podcast, but also something called the Pink Door Collective, which is a um a network of women supporting women. And we've had like one wine and cheese. We will continue to like host events so that it's not a business networking event, it's uh a personal networking event. So women, you know, whatever if it's job loss or divorce or like empty nest or whatever that transition is in your life, just grab a glass of wine and meet some other women, and and so we're building that, and we have a lot of cool collaborations coming up that we're we're super excited about.

SPEAKER_02 47:17

Sounds great. I'm sure there are a lot of people that would appreciate that time. Yeah, no, I'm sure there would be because there's probably a lot more women that are suffering through stuff like this than we know. We realize right now.

SPEAKER_00 47:27

Interesting enough, we actually have quite a few male followers, and and so both Meg and I receive They're just trying to meet chicks. Yeah, that's it. We know they're all single in. They're like, this is a good space for me. Sorry. But yeah, we get like messages all the time like thank you for being so vulnerable, and like you know, thank you for sharing your story. And it's really hard when to make yourself that vulnerable, right? Like sometimes I I re-listen to the podcast and I'm like, Oh, should I actually like say that stuff?

SPEAKER_02 48:02

Yeah, it's good you're doing it. Yeah, I think it's great. Yeah, I mean, you know, we're getting to a weird world, like where the future is so uncertain. Like, you know, I think being human is probably one of the best things we can be doing right now and making every effort to do that, like you know, and helping more people come together however they are, wherever they're at in life, right? Right could probably help with a lot of things.

SPEAKER_00 48:23

Yeah, and that's what people said. They're like, Oh my god, I would never have thought like looking at you and like you know, you have a great job and you look like you're like so put together.

SPEAKER_02 48:33

They're gonna see a successful CEO and that's all they're gonna see. Right, you're out of the way.

SPEAKER_00 48:36

Yeah, they don't see the woman who's like on the floor and her friends are picking her up and she's like doing that. I well, I think I've destroyed my voice because you always, you know, in movies when you hear women do that, like just screech, right? I actually did that. Like when he moved out, and because I begged him not to move out, I'm like, please don't do this to us, don't. Yeah, and I did that screech, and I I my voice has never been the same. So um having somebody, you know, having people, many people, pick me up, like you don't see people who come into my office don't see that version, right? Exactly right. And it's important that you know we're all human and we're all going we all have our own stories and we're all going through shit. Like there's not one person in this world that doesn't have some kind of shit going on in their life.

SPEAKER_03 49:23

And I think it's important to show that there's like there's strength in that, it's not weakness, right? Like the there is a strength in one asking for help. Um, and like you shouldn't have to be ashamed just because like you know, you're a badass CEO doesn't mean you can't have vulnerable moments and feel like you're at a low or something like that, right?

SPEAKER_02 49:42

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, well, don't it cheers to all your friends first and foremost. Cheers to my friends. And uh I know, and I mean that's amazing that there was people in your life that came to help help you out and come together for you. Oh, you know, gosh, wish everybody could have that. Honestly, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 49:56

Yeah, which is why it's pretty cool with this the you know, this this pink door initiative that you have, is like you're kind of creating that for people who may not have it, right? Yeah, so like anyone can kind of show up, right? Even if you're just feeling lonely, yeah, go make some friends.

SPEAKER_00 50:09

Yeah, we have it uh like we have a website and you can sign up to be part of the Pink Door collective. It's all ages. Like we're really focused on it's it's all women, no men allowed.

SPEAKER_03 50:20

So we're not allowed to show up. No, you can't show up. Can't bring beer and have to drink wine, and you can't be a guy.

SPEAKER_00 50:28

You can come to the chat. Come to the pink door collective. There you go. There you go. Yeah. Um, but you know, our audience really is 40 to 60 year olds, but you know, if a 30-year-old woman wanted to come, as long as she doesn't mind being around like the old girls, you can yeah. Yeah, yeah, why not? Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 50:47

Well, that's awesome. Man, I think we should get into our 10 questions, brother.

SPEAKER_03 50:50

Yes, yeah, I totally agree. And you know what? I did the 10 questions a little differently this time. I don't know if you saw that. What did you do? So instead of numbering them, I put them there so they can.

SPEAKER_02 50:59

Oh, you can put check marks here to help me out. You're a good man. There you go. What happens is we do the 10 questions every week. They're always really silly, but then I get lost every week in whatever question we ask.

SPEAKER_03 51:10

So when we ask you a question, you can check it off me. No, not to ask that one. Okay, cool. You can pick any question as long as it's not checked. Who's going first?

SPEAKER_02 51:16

Go for it, but all right, cool. Alright, question number one. So these are random. They they should be weird. Okay, and this one's this one's sentimental. Uh, what do you think makes a house truly feel like a home?

SPEAKER_00 51:33

That's a good question. Uh for me, it's just a connection, like and my dog. Nellie. Nelly, everybody should have a Nelly. Um Wow, that's such a good question.

SPEAKER_02 51:49

I think you answered it already. So like you know, connection is it. Connection. You have dog you come home to. We got a dog, a couple cats, and then there's your whole world.

SPEAKER_00 51:58

Your kids, like we like there's nothing better than hanging out. I mean, my kids are my son's six, seventeen now, have a 22-year-old daughter and a 31-year-old son. There is nothing better when they want to hang out with me.

SPEAKER_02 52:11

Yeah, right. So true.

SPEAKER_00 52:13

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:14

Yeah. Matt and I both just had through the Super Mario movies with our kids last week, and it's still the coolest thing in the world just because the kid wanted to go.

SPEAKER_00 52:20

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 52:21

Teenager wanted to go see a movie. Right.

SPEAKER_00 52:23

It is so rare when like they're like, hey mom, do you want to?

SPEAKER_03 52:25

Mine's four and a half, but still, it's still pretty awesome. Yeah, yeah. Super cool. Question number two. So, what responsibility do you think? Obviously, what responsibility do you think that individuals have versus governments when it comes to solving the housing crisis I would like to hear more from individuals how important home ownership is.

SPEAKER_00 52:47

Because I've, you know, in the past couple of years, you read different articles, like people, like the percentage of people who would prefer to rent is rising versus home ownership. And it's like, is that true data? Because there's no option, like right, there's no option for a 30-year-old who has one income and making, you know, $60,000 to go out and buy a house. So I I think you know, it it would be great for people to really talk about home ownership and whether or not if there were no barriers to home ownership, would they want to own a home?

SPEAKER_03 53:26

That that that's a great question.

SPEAKER_02 53:28

Great question.

SPEAKER_03 53:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:29

Or great answer, sorry.

SPEAKER_03 53:31

Great question, great answer, yes. Uh go over to you.

SPEAKER_02 53:34

How do you define a successful life today in 2020 what year is it six? Yeah. Yeah, 2026.

SPEAKER_00 53:41

I think it's being happy and being true to yourself. I think that what I have learned in my short 55 years is that being authentic and uh trying not to please everyone. Like please yourself. Like make sure that you're taking care of yourself before taking care of others. It's like being on that plane. They say put the mask on before you put it on someone else. Because uh and and uh we don't do that enough. We we're looking out for everyone else and not ourselves.

SPEAKER_03 54:12

Self-care is important. I just had a pedicure on the weekend. Oh nice. Do it up. It's the best.

SPEAKER_00 54:17

Nice toes.

SPEAKER_03 54:20

All right, pedicures' feet or the hands? Pedicures' feet. Okay. I've never had a manicure, but I've had many pedicures. Okay. They're the best. Uh okay. So this is actually a question really we kind of touched on a little bit, but do you think that people can truly understand poverty without experiencing it?

SPEAKER_00 54:37

No.

SPEAKER_03 54:37

No?

SPEAKER_00 54:38

I don't think I don't think they can. I mean, I spent uh some time in Vancouver, had the opportunity um, you know, to go out there quite a bit and literally sit on the sidewalks with people who are experiencing homelessness. And you know, you come back here and people have all these stereotypes about, you know, their mental health or addictions or they're just lazy or this or that. And unless you can have ever experienced that, like I feel like we're all one paycheck away from losing our homes at times, right? So I I I honestly I I mean I I work with people, I still don't fully understand what that means. And I mean that's just my perspective, right?

SPEAKER_03 55:20

No, that's good perspective. I think it's yeah, I I mean I would probably agree with that. All right. Next question.

SPEAKER_02 55:28

Do you think communities shape people more or people shape communities?

SPEAKER_00 55:33

I think people shape communities for sure.

SPEAKER_02 55:36

100%.

SPEAKER_03 55:37

I think they can. I do unfortunately think that sometimes community can communities can sometimes be passive and and or or like you know, as we were talking before, I think sometimes the community that in which you live in and the opportunities that you're given can unfortunately impact people and keep them down. Yeah. So can I can I just respond to that? Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 55:58

So years ago, um my ex-husband and I were building a house in Spryfield. And I I for the longest time, I mean this is back in 2001, because of the perception, I always told people we were building uh we were uh uh just one street over from uh uh Williams Lake Road. Okay and I would never actually like say that I lived in Spryfield. And then after a couple of years living there, you know, you'd go into Sobies and people have their like spry town proud fits on. Man, I it that was the best community I ever moved in. Ever, right? Absolutely the same thing, yeah. And after like two years, I was like, people would say, like, where are you from? I'm like, I'm from Spryfield, like that that's where we live. And I I feel like people shaped that community, right? There's a real sense, I mean it's been I have I moved from there in 2007, but I worked in the community, you know, I sat on some boards, but my neighborhood and just like I don't I loved it, and I would move back there in a heartbeat.

SPEAKER_03 57:06

It's changed a lot in in the last 10 years, but um I grew up there and from Harry Gove, spent a lot of my time in Spryfield, and uh even 20 years ago, um it I mean 20 years ago and further, it had a really bad reputation. Uh but even back then I'd say sometimes it's good to be from Spryfield.

SPEAKER_04 57:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:27

Okay. We're getting to funeral questions here now. What's a useless skill that you're proud of? A useless skill hobby or anything that you'd like doing that you're just uniquely proud of that you know serves nothing, just your own amusement.

SPEAKER_00 57:40

I can hula hoop for about two hours. I could watch an entire movie hula hooping.

SPEAKER_02 57:45

What? That's insane. Yeah. I can't hula hoop for two hours.

SPEAKER_00 57:51

Yeah, I've watched a full movie in front of the TV watch hula hooping.

SPEAKER_02 57:54

Holy smokes. Wow. You must have like the Wii, the Nintendo Wii thing. You must have killed that back in the day.

SPEAKER_00 58:00

I couldn't, I can't do the Wii thing. It has to be a real hula hoop.

SPEAKER_02 58:03

Real hula hoop, okay.

SPEAKER_03 58:05

That was probably one of the best answers we ever had to answer. Because some people give us like, you know, it's like, okay, well, that's kind of like a serious skill or whatever. That was actually like that was one of the best. All right, so if Habitat for Humanity had a mascot, what would it be?

SPEAKER_00 58:21

We do actually, it's a it's a mannequin that we call Habby. Um scares the shit out of me every time I go upstairs.

SPEAKER_03 58:32

Okay. So there you go.

SPEAKER_00 58:34

I think do you know what? If we had a mascot, it would be a really fluffy teddy bear because having a home feels very secure, and there's nothing more secure than hugging a big fluffy teddy bear.

SPEAKER_02 58:48

Okay. Good answer. That's a good answer. Yeah. Over to you. All right. What's your most chaotic? This is like I like these quite the this question. What's your most chaotic? This did not go as planned moment. Like, you know, you had something all figured out and it just blew up.

SPEAKER_00 59:06

My last seven years. Um I tried to um last year my pool started to collapse and I tried to duct tape it. Actually, I used duct tape. And the tuck tape stuck to my arms and removed the hair, and yeah, and then the dog got in the pool and was swimming, and then yeah, so uh I figured it out with the help of friends, my dear, dear friends. But it was very I thought, you know, I can do this.

SPEAKER_02 59:47

Did you ever see that infomercial where the guy slaps the tape on the aquarium and stops the leak? Is that what I'm doing?

SPEAKER_03 59:55

It's some sort of like steel tape.

SPEAKER_02 59:57

I had to get it.

SPEAKER_03 59:58

Yeah, yeah. I was gonna say she probably either didn't watch enough or watched too much red green growing up. Red green, duct tape fits everything. The duct tape, right? The duct tape fits everything. All right, next song. Or next song. That's what the question is. All right, next it's mine. It's mine. Give it to me.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:14

Go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:15

You got this. This is why I said song. So if your life had a theme song, what would it be?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:24

I actually thought about this the other day, and I was like, that's such a good song. And now I'm like totally blank. Um got me. I'm gonna think, uh see, now I've gone blank. It feels like so much pressure. Uh uh. These questions are. What's that dick s uh the chick song about Earl?

SPEAKER_04 1:00:52

Oh, Earl dies or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:55

Yeah, yeah. That sounds too mean.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:57

Um, that's not my theme song. Uh oh my gosh. I'm like totally blank.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:08

That's all right, we can move on.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:09

You know what's so funny because I'm you have a seven-year beer or if you're gonna be able to do that. I'm like so into music too. So I'm like, it really stumped me. I'm like, oh we'll come back to this. Can I think for a minute? Of course, this is like it was not what we're allowed to do. Is this like rapid fire? You're just supposed to have a drink and move on. That's it. Okay, let's move on. Let's move on.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:26

We'll give her a tub thumper. I get knocked down, but I get up again. There you go. That's great.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:29

That's perfect. Whiskey drink. All right.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:32

Yeah, yeah, that's I love that. All right. Um in the movie about your life, what actress do you think would play you? Play you?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:42

Play me. Um Well, everyone used to say that Daryl uh what Daryl Hannah. Daryl Hannah? Yeah. I look like Daryl Hannah. I don't know if that's still true.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:54

Um see the blonde features. Yeah, no, I don't know what you're saying.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:00

Yeah. But um I think like personality-wise, Cameron Diaz, because we're both like goofy and funny and just love to make fun of ourselves.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:12

Yeah. There you go. Cool. Great answer. That's a great answer. All right. All right, last call. This is it. We're all done. Are we we're gonna do the advice question? Yeah, the advice question. Yeah, okay. That's a that's probably more appropriate right now.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:25

Good for Donna.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:26

Exactly. Alright, so uh last call, we asked the question that is what is one piece of advice that you were given in your lifetime that you'd like to give us or and our listeners?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:41

Um as a leader, always people are going to stay with you because they trust you, not because you know they love the work. So they stay with you. I my I've always been told like build trust. Relationships are built on trust, and that's the most important thing in in any relationship. And so my my team knows that trust is the biggest thing with me, and they can screw up. Like, I don't care how bad they screw up as long as they own it. Like, own it. Accountability and trust are huge to me. So amazing.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:26

Yeah. It's good advice. Yeah, I agree. Cheers to you, donor. Cheers, yeah. Plug your show.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:30

What's the name of your show? She shed unfiltered.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:32

She shed unfiltered. Great name, great name. Spotify Apple. Come to the restore, come to the rest of the habitat for humanity. Get your bathroom redone in the back room here. There's lots of options. My shoes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:47

Five ten bucks. Brand new.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:49

Pretty darn cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:50

I almost bought them at Winters for ten dollars or forty, fifty dollars.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:53

There you go. She gets first dibs on all of it. Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:57

That'll be on the floor, but right on.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:02

Anyway, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:03

Thank you so much. Take care. It's fun. We should do it again.