Episode 13: Thought I Was Losing My Job — I Was Losing Myself

You don’t just lose a job.
You lose the version of yourself you built around it.

For so many of us, our work becomes more than a paycheck.
It becomes identity. Structure. Validation. Purpose.

It’s how we introduce ourselves.

How we measure success.
How we understand our place in the world.

So when it’s suddenly gone… the question isn’t just “what’s next?”

It’s: Who am I without it?

This week in the Shed, Donna and Meg are joined by two of their own,  Tracey Barlow, our go-to for capturing the moments that define the Shed, and Nicole Weisner, who supports our production behind the scenes, for a candid conversation  about what really happens when your career no longer defines you.

The uncertainty.
The loss of confidence.
The quiet identity crisis no one prepares you for.

Because starting over isn’t just about finding a new job.

It’s about rebuilding yourself.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:05

Welcome to Sheep Shed Unfiltered. This is not a podcast for perfect women or polite conversation. This is for the women who've been divorced, dismissed, burnt out, betrayed, and still somehow managed to show up, get shit done, and keep everyone else still alive. There'll be laughter, there may be tears, and you might even say, did they really say that shit? Just real women, real stories, and the kind of honesty that usually happens after the second glass of wine. The first season of She Shed Unfiltered is about the things we learned the hard way. The lessons no one warned us about. The moments that changed us. Whether we were ready or not. I'm Donna. And I'm Meg. Alright, well, welcome back to the She Shed Unfiltered. We've been talking a lot about what it looks like when relationships end, whether through divorce, separation, and um, you know, how that feels, but we haven't really talked about one of the other areas that affect us and affect our d identity and and shifts a lot of stuff for us. And that's losing your job at our age.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

Yeah, it's definitely sometimes it feels like a breakup of a different sort. I often liken an interview to a first date because you're trying to put your best foot forward. But it does feel like you're almost losing a community, losing folks that you see every day, often that you have deep friendships with, and how that affects you in midlife. So I'm very excited to uh introduce two guests that we have in our studio today. Ladies, can you introduce yourselves for our listeners, please?

SPEAKER_00 1:51

Hi everyone, my name is Nicole Wisner. I've recently uh unemployed, unfortunately, but uh part of the reason I'm here is because I was able to join the She Shed Initiative uh when Donna started this initially, and very excited to be a part of the team and be here to talk about what's going on in my life.

SPEAKER_02 2:10

And I'm Tracy Barlow, and I was like Nicole, I was set free uh early last year. Uh, first time I've been on that side of the experience. Um, again, I'm also part of uh the the collaborative phenomenal team here with these ladies, and uh yeah, I'm excited to uh share a little bit about what's going on, and um, and and hopefully that will relate to to some folks out there because I know a lot of people are going through what we what we're going through.

SPEAKER_03 2:42

Well, it's great to have you guys on this side of the mic. Tracy and Nicole are um usually working behind the scenes with us. Nicole is um is our production person who makes sure you guys are able to listen to us on a weekly basis on Spotify, Apple, iHeartRadio. Yes. So uh if you're if you haven't listened to all of them, please tune in. And uh and Tracy is the person who brings our story to life with with photos and her creativity. So um excited to have you on this side of the mic today. Thank you. Thank you. Happy to be here. One of the things that um you know, I've I experienced job loss nine or ten years ago, and it really shook me to the core. It it happened by surprise with no lead up to it. Um I definitely kind of fell apart because I identified with my job. So, you know, and then I was like, not only the panic, like, oh my god, I'm a single mother, how am I going to pay my mortgage? But it was like, who am I if I don't have my job? Like what do I do? And so many things went through your head. Panic, like how am I how did this happen? And two, like the money, and then three, like, oh my like, who am I? Like, can you share some of the that like um that initial shock that each of you may or like may have gone through?

SPEAKER_00 4:15

Yeah, absolutely. Um in my situation, the situation itself in terms of being let go wasn't a complete surprise. Uh, I was in a senior leadership position in the company that I was in, so had that behind the scenes, behind the curtain view. And because of the company that it was, I understood that layoffs were something that were used to control cost. So for myself, it wasn't so much the decision, but the timing of the decision. I had a feeling it might happen. I thought I had more time.

SPEAKER_04 4:49

Right.

SPEAKER_00 4:50

And for me, the identity side wasn't so much the job itself, but like Tracy, this is the first time I've actually ever been unemployed. So I got my first full-time real job when I turned 17, and I've, without exaggeration, been working ever since. Even when I was in school, I always had a part-time job. So it wasn't so much in me the identity of having that job, but my identity was as a worker. And that's something that comes from family and comes from, you know, three girls in a family being raised by very strong parents who wanted us to be independent and self-sufficient and make sure that we can make our way in the world. So when I suddenly didn't have that, the who am I became not only what job am I gonna have next, but again, who am I in the interim when I don't have work? Because I had never experienced that before. Unless it was just my own choice in in transferring from one job to another. So it was a very uh maybe disconcerting um situation where I honestly just didn't know how to operate. I just did not know how to be an individual in the world who didn't have a job.

SPEAKER_02 6:05

Right. And that really resonates um f for me too, Nicole, because um a little bit like you, I was in a in a senior management position and I I I knew I knew it was coming. Actually, our organization uh went through massive change every four years. So uh one, the timeline was on the horizon, two, there was an awful lot going on that I that I was aware of. So I I I knew it was coming again a little bit. I'd guessed on timing, um, and yet um I what I wasn't prepared for was how it would make me feel having going through that process. Um, you know, I've been on the other side of those conversations. It's always been really important to me to to take great care with anyone that that perhaps I had to share that kind of messaging with, um, and making sure that folks were okay. And even in on that day, in that situation, having heard that message, you know, and being told you can you can step away if you need a moment. And my first thought was, no, I need to connect with every single team member, make sure they're okay. I didn't know their outcomes, and so driving into still in that moment where where I was hurting was how's everybody else doing? Like, I need to make sure people are okay. When I then leaned into the reality for me, um, and I don't know about you, Nicole, but they they gave me a little bit of time to get my affairs in order, if you like. I had no idea what I needed to do with that or what information I might need to bring away with me that might be useful for interviews or for but I you're not given any of that information. So that was a really interesting piece as well for me. Um, but in those early days, it was very much that identity piece that hit me the hardest. My working with the teams that I worked with was my everything, they were my purpose, my why for getting out of bed every day. And then not having that, um I knew practically what I needed to do. I had trust in myself that I was capable of doing it, and yet it felt like a grief. I felt I had lost something, and I had, because I loved my work, I loved where I worked and with the people that I worked with. And so it it became that very critical question of who am I kept coming up, and with that kept coming self-doubt. Maybe I wasn't that capable, maybe I didn't maybe it was me, maybe maybe you know what I was hearing was not the truth. Maybe um I imagined it all for all of the years. Um, you know, maybe I've been faking it all these years and and and and just just been getting through. So I think that who am I piece then turns to and what what am I even capable of now? Now that I don't have reason, purpose, structure.

SPEAKER_01 9:05

That's so relatable, Tracy. The imposter syndrome is real. I uh five, no, sorry, six years ago now, um, I abruptly lost a good paying, good benefits corporate job that I'd been in for eight years, and then two weeks later ended my marriage because why not just explode everything all at once? So I'm curious from both of you, you know, you talk about that initial shock, and and you know, Nicole, I also really resonate with, you know, I'm a worker, like I'm a hard worker, I show up, I go to work. What even am I if I'm not doing that uh in a professional setting? What do in kind of the aftermath of that where you were in a process of emotionally stabilizing and figuring out coping mechanisms to re-regulate and figure out, okay, this is the new normal. How do I get through? We'll start with you, Nicole.

SPEAKER_00 10:01

Uh, I can honestly say now that I just straight up didn't at first. So um, you know, working as long as I did and always somewhat having a managerial and I'll say human resource capacity to my position, I understand the job market or what I believed to be the job market um very well. So I knew that being laid off in September, if I didn't have a job by November, I would not have a job until spring. Oh wow. There's just we all know. Nobody hires in December. You're right, you're right. So it became an all-out, now looking back, somewhat frantic, apply for everything. Right. Get a job. Yeah, just just get a job. Get a job, and everything will be okay. And then obviously that didn't happen. Um, and when I started to try to step back, try to reevaluate some folks who thought I th or were trying to be helpful and were certainly well-meaning, said, You can do anything. You have so many op and I lost my mind because then, like Tracy, you were saying, now it becomes wow, I could choose anything. Yeah. What the fuck am I supposed to choose overwhelmed? So now it now it was just too big. Yeah, right. Yeah. And then again, you you search for these things, and certainly I think sometimes we try to attach meaning and purpose to things when there isn't any, and sometimes that's not helpful. But every once in a while something will just click, resonate, you'll read something, you'll see something, someone will say something to you. And I saw a post on LinkedIn where someone had been through their own long-term job journey and had just landed their dream job. Oh wow. And what her message was was pay attention to what you feel when you get the no. Okay. She said, Because if you don't feel bad when you get to the no, then understand that that job didn't mean anything to you. Oh wow. It was not the thing for you. Right. So, what was that job? What was that job about? Now I'm not gonna go for those jobs anymore. Yeah. And what I really came to in December and January when I knew that it was just there was almost no point, right? Why am I spending time applying for something when I know they're not gonna look at it till February? Waste of time. Um was when I actually stopped applying, I realized just how draining it was because you spend hours. I mean, it's a full-time job to find a job. It really is, right? Yeah. So to spend some of what I will now define as my precious time on something that I didn't really want, that I couldn't see myself living every day, I gave myself permission to not even spend a minute on that job. I look at a job description, I read it, I decide, could I could I do that? Okay, yes, I could do that.

SPEAKER_04 13:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:05

Do I want to do that? Yeah. Do I want to live that life that would be that job? Yes. And if there's any hesitation or no, I don't even bother applying. Right. And that's been part uncomfortable and feeling selfish and then having to deal with all that. But at the same time, when you let yourself kind of go through that, feel it, acknowledge it, yep, this feels uncomfortable, but when I get past it, then you feel like, nope, that was the right decision. I know I because why would I spend time and waste a recruiter's time, an HR person's time, an organization's time for a job that halfway through the the procedure, if I even get lucky enough to get an interview after three or four hours of time spending on a resume and cover letter to fit, then I'm like, nah, I don't even want to do this. Right. Yeah, it doesn't make sense. Doesn't make sense. Yeah. So that's been, I guess, my shift in that I am extremely fortunate, and I really want to acknowledge the for lack of better word, privilege that I have, that I don't have to go out and get a job tomorrow. Right. Right. Yeah. Financially, between myself and my husband, we are okay. I have access to EI because it was a layoff, all that stuff. I'm in an incredibly fortunate position. So, but then it's again, the selfish side, is it okay to take advantage of that? And that's what I'm trying to tell myself.

SPEAKER_01 14:33

Yes, it is actually okay. Yes, absolutely. To take that time. And I think it's good to give yourself grace because that's 40 hours, 40 plus hours often of your week, of your life. It's gotta be something that you actually care about, people that you like returning to every day, a company that you believe in. I think you know, you both deserve that.

SPEAKER_00 14:56

And that paying attention to the nose, and then from that trying to figure out, okay, let's at least define what I don't want to do. Yeah, right. This is not gonna be okay with me, and then making sure that I can identify those things. So I know for sure that I do not want the main purpose of my job to be to make the number right at the spreadsheet.

SPEAKER_01 15:20

Right.

SPEAKER_00 15:21

Yeah, yeah. That's not a that's not a me job. It's always gonna be part of it, obviously. Sure. Right. It would be, you know, silly to think otherwise. But that can't be the end all and be all of the decision making of the company and the position that I hold that we can't do something if the number's not right.

SPEAKER_03 15:39

Right. Yeah, I remember going through that panic when I lost my job years ago. And like at first it was like just getting out as many resumes, making calls to anyone I could to say, like, oh my god, a couple of the no's or the interviews I went to, and I'm like, oh I need a job, but uh I don't know if that's the one. And and the job that I ended up taking, I loved it. It was a drop in pay, a drop in title, but it really like it um aligned with my values, but it also allowed me to grow as like a leader, and um and and it was like incredible. And I don't I would not have my job at Habitat, I don't think, if I hadn't have had the experience of that other job. So I do think like doors close for a reason and doors open up right for for another reason. So even though you're in that and going, what the what the hell's happening? You know, I just need a job, I need, I need the money. Um, it's wonderful that, you know, Nicole, you can take that time and and really be like make sure it's a good alignment for you.

SPEAKER_01 16:56

So, Tracy, um talk to us. What about you? What was your experience uh in trying to uh kind of do that vital reset and not drive yourself crazy frantically applying for jobs?

SPEAKER_02 17:08

So I I took a little bit of a different path than Nicole um at the time of and I keep saying be set free.

SPEAKER_01 17:16

I for some reason I've just like I love that instead of like being laid off, I was set free.

SPEAKER_02 17:23

I was set free, it's okay, and um at the same time, um we we had a a loss in our family, and so these two things were happening simultaneously. Um, and so for me originally, and and I said um I felt like the the the job was a bit of grief as well, like it was probably all tied together, um but I did decide very quickly that I was not going to jump into job searching. Um so I was also I was I was blessed. I I I had severance pay, so I knew I had time um and I didn't have to panic initially. Um and so I did take uh I took the summer. I took took the summer, um, and it initially I wasn't leaving the house um because I was struggling with the identity piece, and having made the decision that it's okay not to panic, I then told myself off every day. I'm like, what are you doing? Like you you know the market's crazy, you should you should be working at something. Um and so I had this weird kind of left brain, right brain just having these arguments with itself saying you've made a decision, but now the other half of the brain's like, well, don't own it. Holy crap. Like if it doesn't work out, if it doesn't work out, you didn't make that decision. Um but I but I did, and and and so I took the summer and um as as everybody knows I'm doing the photography for for for for she shared unfiltered, but photography is my first love, so I would pick up my camera, take myself out in my car and go explore our gorgeous province and go to places that I hadn't been, and and just that's my that's my how do I how do I cope with this? How do I now that wasn't to say that I didn't have bad days in between, but I did. And um full disclosure here where I've like I've cried more in the last year than I even care to think about, and that's hard for me as well, because I see myself as a strong, capable person, and yet I was having all the feelings and kind of going, oh god, what do I do with this? And then there was one day in the middle of the summer that was really a turning point for me. And it was a it was a it was a bad day, it was a hard day for me. Um, and I was um scared about the future and worrying about the actions that I was taking, and was I making the right decisions, and um how was this all gonna figure out? And and I couldn't get control of the spiralling worry and thought and tears. Um and I heard um a podcast, and I can't remember, I'm kicking myself, I should have thought about his name, but um there's a comedian. Uh he was on the big bang a little bit. He's a really tall English comedian who works with um uh uh Ricky Gervaise. Um I don't I don't know if anyone's heard any of those names. I'm English, so you might not know. I know we were talking about um Stephen Stephen, yes, Stephen Stevens, I don't know his love. Yes, Stephen Merchant. Uh merchant team took three of us.

unknown 20:33

We got there.

SPEAKER_02 20:34

And Stephen Merchant was on a podcast and he and and he was talking about changes and identity and things. Um, and something he said really resonated with me. Um, and and he said, you you have to acknowledge it, and Nicole and I were talking about this earlier too. You have to acknowledge what you're feeling and really lean into it, otherwise it will never leave you. And that's what I was in. I was in a spa and every day I was going through that, right, Nicole?

SPEAKER_00 21:03

Yeah, unfortunately, as my therapist has told me, to process feelings, you actually do have to feel the feelings, which I reject. Like I just brutal, brutal, no feelings, no thank you. No thank you. Um but you know uh the body will hold it if you don't. So true, definitely. I certainly have had that experience as well. Yeah, and it it like you say, Tracy, it's you have to you have to feel it, you have to process it. Um let it in. One of the things that I heard in a similar thing or a similar strain was you can't intellectually process feelings that you don't feel. Like you can't talk yourself out of the you have to actually feel it's the only way that your body's gonna let go. Um and I don't like that. But um it's unfortunately true. It is uncomfortable, but again, when you actually do it and then you feel the relief after you process it through, then you're like, okay, maybe I can. Actually, yeah, do this. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:02

And for me, that that accepting it was um I picked up a pen and I wrote everything that I was thinking and feeling. And I literally wrote for probably six pages, an actual wrote, not typing, didn't have a laptop out, picked up old school pen. Folks out there, if you don't know what a pen is, like you know, Google it, but picked up a pen and wrote everything I felt and everything that I was thinking, and I would have moments of calm and then it would come back and then I'd dump it again. And you know, I've never gone back and read what I wrote down. Almost like a a shield. I'm like, well, I don't want to welcome all of that crap back into my brain and my body and and the energy, and and and so I parked it, and I've never reread it, and it's tucked away, and I've never told anyone about it. But from that day on, I felt stronger to be able to. I still have down moments, but nothing has overwhelmingly made me curl up on the couch and not be able to move moments, those have gone. And now, if those moments kind of come up a little bit more, immediately I'm not, I know I know how to deal with this. Right. Yeah. Exactly. Um, I'm quite a spiritual person. I I believe I I've I do meditation, I've I've done some courses around mediumship, etc. Like I I have a big belief in we're protected and guided and supported, and however that looks for people, there's it it takes many forms, but but I do feel like we're we're being held and and I knew I was supposed to trust in it will be okay and I'll and I'll find my way. But in those dark moments, it didn't matter knowing it because I wasn't feeling it, yeah, yeah, and that was a struggle.

SPEAKER_03 23:58

The the interesting thing you talk about the journaling and the writing, and you haven't gone back, so that was part of my healing process as well. Was the journaling piece, and then I'm like, I'm gonna start a podcast, but I did um a few months ago go back to start reading what I wrote, and it just made me feel really strong. I couldn't, I didn't even I started it, yeah. I didn't read them all, and I'm like, I am such it, like I'm in such a better place now, and it just it made me feel really strong when I went back and started to read the first couple of journal entries, and I'm like, wow, Donna, you did it. Like you you got out of it in a place where I wasn't sure how to move forward. Yeah, so someday I would encourage you to read it because you'll feel you'll feel stronger and like just like how resilient you were going through that.

SPEAKER_02 24:54

And that's good to know, and maybe I will. It's funny when when in in the early days and I I was speaking to um a pre a previous colleague and and and they were like, Why aren't you more angry? Why aren't you more cross at this situation and cross at the company and cross that and and I said, you know what? Actually, at that time, I don't feel that, and actually I don't want to spend my energy on that. No, yeah. I want to use the energy in the right way to start moving forward the right way. That's not productive, that's like holding on, keeping a grudge and holding on to the past. And so yeah, it w it was interesting. It was like pe people expected me, and and and they weren't the only person, but but people expect they were like, well, why aren't you being more feisty about this? And why because what purpose does that solve? Like, yeah, I I don't I don't want to feel that way. I want to try and figure it out and and move forward logically.

SPEAKER_00 25:46

When I uh uh was let go of the last company, I had some things that I had I had left behind because when I left it was walk you to the door. Um not quite it wasn't escorted to the door, but it was leave your things like go back to your office, leave your things on the desk, and off you go. Right? Yeah. Um which was a little awkward because I had to walk past people and I I didn't say anything to them, I didn't think it would be appropriate, I didn't want to make anyone uncomfortable, so it was that I just kind of went in, got my stuff, shut down the computer, um, and and off I went. Um so when I then had some things that needed to be picked up, they said, Oh, we can ship this to you. And I thought, let's let's not be silly about this. I have like they were gracious enough to let me take the phone for a couple days because I didn't have a personal phone, so I was able to go get a personal phone, do that transfer, and then I had the to bring the device back and pick up a few boxes of knick-knacks.

SPEAKER_02 26:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:42

I said, It's fine. I will come pick it up. It's not like it's not a big thing. Don't be afraid of me.

SPEAKER_02 26:47

Don't be afraid of me. I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_00 26:48

But when I arrived at the location to get the items, yeah, the the poor folks in the room, like the energy in the room.

SPEAKER_02 26:55

They didn't know what to do.

SPEAKER_00 26:56

They didn't know what to do. They thought that I was gonna be angry and like stop like they were like, Do you even want to come in? We can bring the things out. I'm like, well, I'd like to say hi and see you. We've been working together for yeah, right? But they did not know how to act, and same thing. They were awkward, and they expected me to come in with guns ablazing, right? Yeah. When actually I came in and said, Thanks everyone, been pleasure. If there's anything we can do to help you in the future with your careers, please let me know. Because these were people that I led, like these are people that I invited. And you cared about them, and I cared about them. So that was again because not having gone through before, why like I I started out with why would they think that about me?

SPEAKER_02 27:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:37

Right? Why would they think that I would be like that? And then I'm like, it was a situation where again I was fortunate enough that you know there were a couple people that actually reached out after, you know, one that I it was funny. I I said I wasn't surprised that you were the one to reach out just because of who that who they were as an individual actually went out for coffee once, right? So there was that you know, it's it's been radio silence kind of since then, which is understandable. There's just separation, and I think that's part of it is there's sometimes where you think you have a tighter connection to people, to a company, yeah, to whatever, that there's going to be a lasting connection. And when you look back, it's again, no disrespect. It's just not the way that it is. And sometimes so that's again the learnings that you go through. And did I invest too much of myself? Did I connect too much of myself? Did I think this was bigger more than it was? Yeah. Um the kind of things that you go through in your brain as you're understanding what that separation means. Yes. And that's why I say sometimes I think we just do it as humans where you try to attach meaning, right? You want there to be a grander purpose, and sometimes shit just happens. You know, it's just it's just what life has brought. Yeah. Figure it out, decide what's next, and and move on. Right.

SPEAKER_01 28:58

And I love Nicole that you brought your true self to that last, you know, uncomfortable, awkward, especially from your employer's perspective, awkward moment where you're you said, I'm not gonna cower in a shadow at the front door. I will come in, I will say hi to my former team, I will say, wishing you the best, you know, I'm here if you want support. And I think that's so important. Um, and you're absolutely right. And sometimes we create a narrative around our job, around the people we work with, and that's not once we have hindsight, which is everything, it's not necessarily all it's cracked up to be. When I was let go from my job six years ago, I told my boss before she let me go, I said, I apologize if my work has been slightly substandard lately. I'm just about to initiate a divorce process. And I said this behind a closed door. I said, I'm gonna be really honest with you. I won't go into details, but I've just it's emotionally it's been very difficult. And as soon as I was out of that building, she told everybody in that building that I was going through a divorce, and I got random people reaching out to me saying, Are you getting a divorce?

SPEAKER_03 30:15

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 30:16

So that, yes, so that's awful, but also made me relieved that I was no longer working with that company and with those folks, right? Because it's just it left kind of a bitter taste in my mouth, and I thought, you know what? Moving on is the best thing. Yeah. Like I don't I don't want to be in a space like that.

SPEAKER_00 30:36

And that's part of why it was so challenging because I, you know, I had been experiencing some things in my personal life that were very stressful in the two years leading up to being laid off. And one of the folks that I worked with was someone that I had confided in. And it was extremely difficult. Part of it was I don't have that person to confide in anymore because you make work best friends, and you know what I mean? People kind of become important to you, right? Yeah. Um but also that was one of the people that I was not able to connect with after. That's hard. We made an attempt, there were some emails back and forth, and then communications just stopped.

SPEAKER_02 31:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:19

I don't know why. I I I don't want to put any, you know, um guesses against it. I don't think obviously I I don't think there was anything malicious, but that in of itself was probably the most emotional part for me. Because then again, it wasn't so much that now I don't have that person to confide in, but are they gonna tell anybody? Yeah, exactly. You don't know. I would say knowing what I know about this person, they didn't.

SPEAKER_02 31:44

And I've never questioned what you thought that relationship was. 100%. Like again, you think it's more, right?

SPEAKER_00 31:50

Like of course, we're now like really good friends.

SPEAKER_02 31:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:52

No, we're co-workers. Right, yeah. We're co-workers who happen to confide in each other about some things. Now we're not co-workers anymore, and that's just that's just not gonna happen. And that's again, and that's okay. That's just part of one of those things that you learn and you can try and move on from. But it was that that in of itself was probably the most difficult part is losing that connection to someone that I had felt that I had actually made a connection with. Yeah, totally different right like that.

SPEAKER_01 32:21

And I think knowing that intellectually doesn't make it any easier emotionally, right? It's still a lot of that's all I dealt with it.

SPEAKER_00 32:28

I was only dealing with it intellectually, I wasn't dealing with it emotionally. Right. So honestly, when January hit, I was not good.

SPEAKER_02 32:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:36

Like I was not in a good place because I had gotten to the point where I realized I can't just apply for everything anymore. So now I'm not even doing that to keep my brain going. Right. And now the only thing I can do is actually feel my feelings. And it was And I don't like them. And I don't like them. I will say I I remember Um I have two sisters, one older, one younger, and they've both been unbelievably amazing for me. Um my older sister specifically. Um, but my younger sister, it's funny, she's more of a she's the business person, so like she reads my cover letters, she does a, and then when I need to, you know, cry on the phone, I call my older sister, right? Like it's just that's their dynamic. So I remember talking to her in this time frame and saying, I just wish I had a better barometer. I wish I knew, am I doing enough? Am I is this okay? And I you know, we're she lives in Montreal, so she's listening on the phone, and and I'm just kind of talking, and then there's I stopped talking, and then there's just pause. And she said, barometer according to who? Oh. And I went, and I I'm just talking, I was like, you know, like society, and you know, whatnot. Like, is this okay? Am I doing the right thing? And and she went, Yeah. Um I think that's the wrong question. Yeah. And again, that just hit me. I was just like, oh fuck, she's right. Like because again it she's wise. So wise, right? So again, it was one of those where it was that exterior comparison of how do I match up, line up, compare to others who have been in my situation before so that I can figure out if I'm doing okay and if I'm enough. Yes. Yeah, right. And wrong question. Yeah. Yeah. Wrong question. So then again, now you gotta sift through that and give yourself the time to figure that part out. So it's it's been a lot of up and down, and the phrase that I've come to currently is that it's been really difficult, really difficult, but not bad. Right. If that makes sense. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:44

Um what is the job market like out there?

SPEAKER_00 34:50

Brutal.

SPEAKER_02 34:54

Pandemonium.

SPEAKER_00 34:56

Random, actually. I will say I will say random because so I've there are two jobs that I applied for that I was really, really interested in. One job it was more about the company than the position, and the other was just it was a straight up position. And actually, Tracy sent me the job description of this one. Oh, nice. And I'm like, Oh on paper. It's me on paper. It it totally was. Uh I had Donna read my cover letter, and she was like, Yeah, this is this is you. I didn't even get an interview for that one. No, wow.

SPEAKER_03 35:23

I was I'm so shocked. Like, I would have hired you in a second if I had that position.

SPEAKER_00 35:27

Like, just doesn't, but okay. And I had folks that I know who knew some one of the hiring committee members reach out, and I have so I don't understand what happened. I'll be very interested. I'm sure they'll find someone. I knew it would be a highly contested position because of the nature of the job and how interesting it was. But I thought I would at least get an opportunity to have a conversation. Right. Then this other job got into the second round of interviews, ended up not getting the position, but they said we loved talking to you so much, we want to stay connected and we want to see if we can find a way to engage you. Oh wow. So here's a job that I let's be honest, was not qualified for, right? Like, but they were looking for a skill set, right? And an individual. And so I it's just that's why I say it's random because the job that I didn't think I was even really gonna contest for, I got through to the final round of interviews and almost got a job offer out of it. And the other one that's directly aligned with my experience and who I am as a person, yeah. No, we're not gonna talk to you. So that's insane. It's difficult.

SPEAKER_02 36:34

It is, and and it is a broken process. I think as hard as it is for folks like Nicole and I who are job seeking and trying to navigate this, I actually also feel that it's equally difficult for recruiters and the folks on the other end of the process who are using, you know, using new tools and being directed to do things in perhaps different ways, and and they're trying to get a grips with this, but also the flood of hundreds of applications on, you know, on a roll and thinking, how the hell do we even find the person in this volume of application? So I can I I can see I'm I've been in the recruitment industry in my past, everything I thought I knew does not apply in 2026. Like it is crazy. And for me, um, some of that kind of working through what I worked through last year, one of my aha moments having applied to a ton of stuff, one of my aha moments was exactly what Nicole was saying is how do you how does it make you feel when you get an O, or the majority of time, uh like you don't hear anything, you don't get an electronic decline, you don't get an app, you know, nothing. Um, and how does that make you feel? And what I realized was I don't actually want to do what I used to do at that level. I was in a senior position and I I don't want to do that anymore. I'm good at what I do, I love what I do, I can apply it in any role. Um, and so where I've struggled is that overqualified people see titles, and I'm not a big title person, I don't care what my title is, I just want to do good work with good people. And people see that um and and and immediately you're discounted. And I just wish there was an opportunity at least for a conversation so you can say what you want and say the why and what you're looking for. I had one, um, I I put in one application for a job that I was really interested in, I was really excited about, completely different industry, you know. Um I I've been looking at not-for-profits and things. I've never worked in that in that sector before, um, and I'm finding it challenging because I haven't, so that so that's becoming a little bit of a um a block. And to overcome that a bit, I started volunteering so that I've some experience and I'm putting myself in that environment, which I love. Like if I never had to work and I could just volunteer, that would be my dream. Wouldn't that be a dream? My dream? I'm like, I never had time to volunteer to this scale before and I adore it. But um I had I I did, I got a call back on on a position, and the the opening question was, did you mean to apply for this? Now, in that moment, I I went to laughter because I was like, this is really awkward. After the fact, I kind of thought, do you do I really strike you, even on paper, as a person that's accidentally applied for your job with your cover letter given that you put two hours into crafting your applicant? Like I was, I was I and and yeah, that's perhaps an example sometimes of what's happening on that other side of the process for for us as job seekers is people are making assumptions. People are are not connecting anymore, they're not speaking, they're not asking questions. I've reached out to to recruiters, um, you know, I'm I'm trying to take the advice, I'm trying to take the tips and the tricks. Like Nicole, I'm reading on LinkedIn. Sometimes I have to stop because geez Louise, it kills some of it is draining and depressing and and and and and not helping me anymore because it's too much. But I'm trying to do all the right things. Um and and that's not necessarily working either, um, because we can't speak to people anymore. And even recruiters, I've reached out directly and and they're putting phenomenal advice out there. They're all over LinkedIn, but they're not connecting with you as a human. And I know they can't connect because probably hundreds of people are reaching out saying, Can we talk? So so so again, that's why I say the whole process, like, how do we how are we supposed to navigate this? It's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 40:55

Yeah, it does sound very dehumanizing. And I wonder if both of you, since you've both been in a situation where you've had interviews and then you've also just had stony silence, depending on yeah, just just nothing. And I have been there. Do you find that sometimes the language that is used um is coded? And by that I mean before I went out on my own and started my own business, I did apply for some jobs and had incredibly frustrating experiences, mixed messages, etc. So I'm so relating to what you are both saying. But I got you are overqualified a lot. Yeah. And I and I realized kind of zooming out and looking at the broader context, that they simply did not want to pay me what I was worth.

SPEAKER_02 41:41

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 41:42

It was $10,000 or $15,000 lower, and they wanted someone younger and hungrier that they could just mold, and I was not that person. Uh, I had higher standards, I had more experience, um, so would have killed it at the job. Again, Tracy, which is why it's so insulting to say, I did you mean to apply for this? Like, are you sure are you sure? Was it were you in a fugue state and you accidentally applied for a job? Were you drunk that moment? Yeah. So I'm just curious if if either of you have kind of experienced that kind of mixed messaging, or after the fact you sit back and say, Oh, they they said one thing, but I think they meant something entirely different.

SPEAKER_02 42:21

Yeah, I I think I think for me, um, what resonates out of that, Meg is is is kind of the um the earning potential piece as well. So um, you know, I've made some decisions personally. I don't want to work at that level anymore. I appreciate that I'm not gonna earn at that level anymore. That is something that that that I've worked through, you know, with my family. We figured out what can life look like, and at what level do I need to be in order to achieve that? Because let's be fair, most of us are working because uh we have to. Yes, uh we have to pay the bills, and particularly in this day and age, to try and keep food in our mouths and and and our homes heated. So it's um you know, that's the underlying reason the most of us, most of us are are looking for that. Um and as part of that, uh to be able to have a conversation, I think, is the blocker because even Nicole, I don't know if you've seen this on some of your applications, but um, with the use of AI and and all of the things that have been programmed in there, we're being asked upfront before speaking to somebody what salary expectations are. Now, very few of the positions that I've been applying for even allude to uh forget a range, like forget the salary, not even a range. So you have no clue. Now, I don't know, I'm sure Nicole has done this, but I've done my research, I've been online, I'm asking questions about what can I expect of jobs and salaries and all those kinds of things. Um, and yet my brain tells me you put in a salary, but if there There are 30 applications that are ten thousand less than the ax, you know, the the the suggestion that you put in there, which by the way is negotiable. If somebody actually spoke, you'd be able to say, I don't necessarily need that exact amount. Like can we talk about it? Or counterbalance with benefits or something or extra vacation. What's the full compensation on the thing? It's not just about the salary, you know, what's what's time off look like? Is there flexibility in where you are? All these things matter to a job seeker, but you don't get that opportunity when we're being driven by technology, and technology definitely has a place, but it's limiting. And so when it becomes black and white, I think it's it's you're you're probably being filtered out very quickly.

SPEAKER_00 44:45

Yeah. I was gonna say I and I I wish that I would get something other than we'd move forward with candidates that are more closely aligned with the skills in a dog job. La la la la la. Like it's the same thing every time.

SPEAKER_02 44:57

It's ultimation.

SPEAKER_00 44:58

And again, the most recent job that I applied for that everyone here agrees is me on paper. That's the response that I got back. More closely aligned with the specification.

SPEAKER_03 45:05

Like, how could you be more closely aligned?

SPEAKER_02 45:07

Like you've written the post.

SPEAKER_00 45:09

Right. So, okay, fine. I you don't want to interview me. That's fun. Just tell me why. Hi, this position is going internal. So that's the things that have been most frustrating to me. I've applied for a job where I've gotten the we've had great demand for this position, and we've decided to move forward with other candidates, and then I see the job reposted. Yeah, it's like two weeks later. Two weeks later. I'm sorry, what? So, or um, you know, again, you put the job in, you don't hear anything, and then the job just disappears. It's not it's not real. So I really hope that the rest of Canada follows some of the rules and regulations that I think Ontario has put in place where it has to actually say, yes, this is a position that has a vacant opening, or this is a future opportunities, and here's the salary. Like they're actually requiring the job posters to give the job seekers more information. Right.

SPEAKER_02 45:59

And actually, I read one only only this morning, Nicole, and it actually said in there that internal candidates would be given prior priority. Right. And that in itself said to me, you know what, then I'm I'm not gonna spend my time on this. Right, because they're going to have it, at least they said it in the ad. And that's that's the kind of regulation that we need to get to. We need more transparency, we need to understand is it real or not? I've applied for a couple that have said, hey, there isn't an actual job, but we're looking for a pool of people so that we can I'm like, okay, I can do it. Put my name in there. I can do temporary, I can do contract, I can do part-time. The world is my oyster, can do anything that I want. Uh, you know, I even thought I'd be a goat herder at one point because I'd love to do that, but you know, I don't have the land to the goats, but you know, fabulous, like could you imagine a better life? Go out in the gorgeous countryside, take your goats out, have them clear out a field. Like, phenomenal. But the reality is, whilst you could do anything, practically, you have to think about it. You have to think about that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:00

Um, just one final question for both of you. Finish the sentence. Losing my job has taught me what Oh gosh, I'll have to think about that. Feel my feels losing the job has taught me that I'm more than the job.

SPEAKER_02 47:20

Yes. And actually, take the great. Right. Take the opportunity that perhaps you wouldn't have had before, take the blessings. Um, something will figure itself out. I have trust in that. I I believe in that. Um, and until then, I've learned to just be in the moment and enjoy what I have got.

SPEAKER_00 47:41

For me, I don't know if there's one lesson that I can point to. Um, I guess it's it's given me the opportunity to reflect. So, more than something that it's taught me, because I I don't know that I've figured it out yet. To give myself permission to put myself first, all the corny things that we're told, but it's like, no, actually, I think that's real. Like, yeah, we actually do have to think about what we want, what makes us happy, where we want to be in our lives, how we want to live that life. Um, and I just I again I just have to keep coming back to the gratitude to remind myself how fortunate am I that I have the opportunity to take the time to try and figure it out that I have a supportive partner.

SPEAKER_01 48:23

Well, ladies, I think uh we're sadly coming to the end of our time together. Thank you so much for coming in. I think that you provided a lot of inspiration and solace as well for fellow job seekers. It is not easy. We all, I think, in this room have struggled with it and you two are actively, you know, figuring it out as you go along. I do think that the fact that it's largely AI and tech driven makes it even more difficult. Like if you could just talk to a person, it would be so much easier. All right. Thank you, ladies. Thanks, ladies. Thank you both. If this episode resonated with you, you can get more She Shed. You can follow us on Spotify, listen on iHeartRadio, or Apple Music. You can also follow us on Instagram at She ShedUnfiltered, all one word. This has been She Shed Unfiltered, where midlife isn't polished, it's real. From divorce and career pivots to perimenopause and everything no one warned us about. These are the honest conversations we've lived, survived, and shared with you today. Until next time, stay brave, be curious, and keep it unfiltered.