Clay Hodges, Co-founder and CTO of Top One Futures

This week, I am joined by Clay Hodges, Co-founder and Chief Trading Officer at Top One Futures. 
As is customary, I explore my guest's back story to find out what brought them to the world of trading, and Clay's story stands out. He has managed to turn his life around in a way most people can't even dream about, and pulled himself up from the gutter, to become successful as a trader, as an entrepreneur and business owner, and as a person.
From there, I get to pick his brain about prop firms, accounts, rules, and the balance between developing good habits as a trader, and following prop rules.
This episode is a must listen if you are looking for inspiration and knowledge to start or continue your own day trading and prop trading journey.

I hope you enjoy the episode, and if you do, you help me create much more material, by simply leaving a 5 star review, like or share. Thanks!

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:11

Before we get started, I want to just say that anything you hear me or any of the guests on this podcast say is to be considered for educational and entertainment purposes only. I am not a financial advisor. You should do your own research before taking financial decisions. And with that, please enjoy the podcast. All right, welcome everybody to the Trader Dane podcast. I have a special guest on today. This is Clay Hodges from Top One Futures. Welcome to the show, Clay.

SPEAKER_00 0:38

Thanks, Jesper. Thanks for having me on. I did a uh Instagram story right before, just talking about coming on this podcast. And I was like, it's Trader Dane, but his name's not Dane. It's because he's Danish. His name's Jesper.

SPEAKER_02 0:51

Yes, exactly, exactly. And I'm I'm conflicted on that because I will tell some people that just call me Dane, and I will tell other people call me Jesper. I had a couple of my buddies the other day who kept calling me Jesper because it's you know the American way of saying the J and the R. And I said it's actually pronounce it with a Y and with a soft R, not rolling R at the end. But whatever. Dane, Jesper, whatever. Welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_00 1:14

We're stuck in our ways, dude, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:16

Exactly, exactly. So it's a real pleasure to have you here. And uh, we've already been chatting for about 15 minutes before that we we hit the record button. So um, so I'm I'm super uh super hyped to have you on. And just to get off the ground, uh, could you tell us a bit about your backstory? Because I mean, this this podcast is really about um addressing developing traders, upcoming traders, people who are um struggling or getting towards their first payout, maybe they've gotten a few payouts, they're in that situation where I'm sure you've also found yourself back in the day. Um, so so a bit of your backstory, how you got into trading and and what brought you to where you are today.

SPEAKER_00 1:57

Okay, yeah, yeah. So we'll get into just kind of like my background without going deep into it. Right. Um, you know, I've always been kind of entrepreneurial-minded, um, but I like doing things my own way for sure. So um we were talking a little bit about that, you know, uh the how I got into trading and prop firms and this whole world, you know, I was actually a ski instructor out in uh Colorado in Crescent Butte for man, I lived out there for like eight years and uh it was awesome. But of course, uh I was in a car wreck and I got prescribed some pills and uh like the whole lifestyle too. And I was partying after work and stuff, and everything got way out of hand, and you know, I was had like a free ticket because I'd hurt my back. Um, and doctors back then in the United States, this was around 2006, were just like handing out pills like candy, candy, right? So just to talk about that part of my backstory, because you asked about it um previously prepping up for this, you know. So that led me down a super dark road, which ended up, you know, I was pretty much homeless, it was on heroin. Uh man, and it was it was very extremely dark, hard time. And this was uh, you know, early 2012, and uh and then 2016, you know, I went to treatment, wasn't the first time, um, but it was uh, you know, the last time. And so that I moved back to Nashville, kind of left the mountains. You know, I'm from the Nashville, Kentucky area. And uh so then I got clean and I was working construction job.

SPEAKER_02 3:37

And I just can I just ask you one question there because what do you think changed? You said it was multiple times. What what what was that tipping point?

SPEAKER_00 3:45

Um, well, there's a certain degree of like my own surrender of like, you know, hey, like I I need help doing this. I'm you know, I'm done trying it on my own type thing, and also to, you know, really just surrender to God or you know, the universe, whatever that is, to where it's like, man, just a complete, utter waving the white flag to life, like it's like a like a spiritual surrender. It's hard to even put into words, right? It's because many, many times, like I would do do dope without being too graphic, and then I'd go to sleep tonight. I'm like, oh man, yeah, not gonna do that tomorrow. You know, I'd quit in my mind a thousand every single day, but then I would get sick and like you know, um have to do it all over again, figure out how I was gonna get money, like, and it just brought me to such an extreme dark place that you know, so I would say, you know, grace is what really brought me out of it too. And you know, because most of people I grew up with are you know that went down that road, which was a lot of people, especially in the Appalachian area, uh, you know, ended up dead or in jail, you know, or I don't know where they are, right? So and don't want to know, you know, as wish them the best, but uh I'm on a different path now, you know what I mean? So you gotta have to kind of like cut those ties, you know, you don't have to go down the same road that I did, but making a decision to turn your life around or hey, I'm gonna pursue trading, I'm gonna figure out how to, you know, um make my own way, be an entrepreneur, which being a trader, if if you haven't realized this, you're an entrepreneur, right? So yeah, um, so you know, making that clear kind of cut and having a then vision around what I wanted my life to look like. And then of course, I was working construction, I was like, man, okay, this is great. I was living in a halfway house, which is basically like you know, where you go and it's like half you're halfway free. You have to report and all the stuff, take drug tests, everything else. It was not a nice halfway house, too. I'll tell you that for sure. Okay. Uh two of the guys died in there while I was in it, they'd relapse. It was it was insane. And so I was like, okay, I'm clean, I'm doing construction, and I was in Nashville, and it was like July. I was like, Man, you know, I I but I don't want to keep doing like I got to figure out something, and uh, I'd already had like a previously before that whole situation, I'd already had uh couple like a business venture. One was a juice bar that I'd opened up. This was like years before is in Nashville and actually did pretty well. My brother and I uh called Juice Brothers, he actually works with me and juice brothers, yeah. And I was like, Oh man, we're gonna crush it making juice, and then like and then like eight hours a day, me and him were like just juicing like all day.

SPEAKER_02 6:39

And that's really popular nowadays. I think you were just being fashioned forward there.

SPEAKER_00 6:43

That's like you're at the start of it, dude. This is like two 2010, yeah. And so we would be like, Yeah, I don't know if you have a brother or not, we're a year apart. I do, and uh, so we would be like making juice and be like, Oh, dude, that's not you're not doing it right, be like, Man, you know, you like, and then we just start throwing juice pulp at each other, like knock the juicer over, dude. It was crazy, and we made zero money, and we made zero money, but but I already it planted that seed, and then of course, when I was a ski instructor to bring it full circle, you know, like because that was a business too, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I've always been a people person. I love teaching people, um, I love talking to people, which you know, like and at the boot camp, you know, everybody wants to talk to me. I'm you know, like, dude, I give people my phone number. I don't know too many prop firm founders that do that, right? So whatever. Um, and then yeah, so like I'd make a good relationship with people, teach their kids or teach them, or the whole family. We go out skiing, and then they'd come to me next year, you know. So um I had already had that mindset of like man, I can figure out how to do this on my own. So it was like 2016, and all these uh like trading uh MLMs had started. There's like some iMarket Slide was one of them. Um, and there's a a few of them around. Of course, like I saw this girl that I kind of knew indirectly on Facebook post like these profits from MetaTrader 5 or MetaTrader 4 at the time. Yes, and I was like, Holy shit, she made like six grand in a day. Of course, I know now there's they were demo profits for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So um, but that turned me on. I was like, what is this? Like Forex of trading, like so that led me down the road. So then I started reading a bunch of books, reading a bunch of books of marketing at the time, and then I was like started trading, and it was like, Oh man, I'm kind of good at this, you know, and um this is gonna be easy, easy money, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. And the and then the worst thing happened to me that could possibly happen. Like, I got super lucky, made a bunch of money real quick. I was like, Oh, this is easy. But I and to like get back to your question, too, you know. So, but the seed got planted. I'm the type of personality, too, that's like, oh man, I know I can make this work, I see other people doing this, I know tenacious, yeah. And you're you're a type A personality. There's like some people would be like, Man, I'm not doing this anymore, I'm gonna quit, right? But the people that are probably watching this, right, are like us, they're like, Man, you know, um, yes, was yes, was gotten winning, so and so is winning, whatever. Um, I can do this too. And so I, you know, developed that mindset, started a a trading group of my own, which was centered around uh Forex trading, and this was before uh prop firms were even around. And you know, I had a telegram group, I got it up to you know, like six, seven thousand members. Um start coaching people. I was actually uh voted, and it was like an objective source, like one of the top 10 uh Forex trainers in the world, which is kind of cool. Nice. This I was in 2018, and uh so then you know started meeting people inside the uh the niche, inside the field or whatever you want to call it. Um and started making connections. And I remember when like you know, FTMO dropped on the scene, um, and you know, everybody was like, What is this? Is this can't be legit? Right. Uh and you know, found out about prop trading and then started to learn some introductions behind the scenes, and uh long story short, uh how I got into top one, um, you know, made my partner Matt, he was actually in my coaching group, and we we were talking about uh we were make or he was actually working on some stuff with his trading strategy. I knew about his background and he's super successful. So I uh pitched him on being my partner with top one trader because like we both had uh been taking some payouts and also had been denied payouts. I yeah, I told you right before, like I it was like $110,000 payout. I was like, oh dude, this is life-changing money, yeah. Yeah, and yeah, and then it never came. Like uh and so and the and the people blocked me and whatever.

SPEAKER_02 11:03

I won't was that like your first sort of real experience with prop?

SPEAKER_00 11:07

No, no, I've been I've been trading pro that was you know prop firms for probably about a year at that point, yeah. Okay, okay. No, actually a little longer than that. Um, and taking some payouts and stuff, and then that was one basically, you know, caught a couple uh banger trades. I remember it's on US US dollar yen, uh, right after FOMC announcement and dropped like 300 pips, like you know, three lots on or something, five lots, right? And I was like, uh, you know, but uh so anyways, so you know, with that, we were both like, man, you know, we could do this better than they are, you know, and that's kind of like the foundation of how like our whole ethos and and core principles of like, you know, really putting customers first, being transparent, uh, being approachable, being honest about what it is that we're doing and we're trying to achieve, and you know, work together with our traders. So we started top one trader in 2003, and then uh in 2005, last year, we started TOF, Top One Futures, right? And so between the two, we paid out uh 40 million to the traders. So between those two companies, between those two companies. So it's a long journey from when um you know the the bottom for me was actually uh and the picture is on my Instagram. If anybody you know doesn't know me or wants to go follow, it's clay.b.hodges to you know my socials, but you can see I have a before and after picture on there, and the before picture was me in jail, and they'd actually like I I'd uh gotten high in a Walmart. Uh do you know Walmart?

SPEAKER_01 12:47

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:48

Okay, all right, yeah. Yeah, in the bathroom, and you know, like uh overdosed, and they like found me and you know gave me Narcan, which is like you know, pulp fiction where they like that. And I woke up in jail, man, and then and then got out and then went to treatment. So and then that started the whole to where I guess I am today, you know.

SPEAKER_02 13:12

That's that's a really powerful story, Clay. And what a bounce back, I mean, on the long term, because you were talking like the knots, right? The 2005 to 10, uh, you were bottoming there, and then all the way back to to success, a lot of success.

SPEAKER_00 13:26

Yes, that was 2015 and 2016. So it's 2026 now when we're shooting this, so it's 10 years. So, man, you know, for anybody that's listening, that's like, man, how am I gonna get out of this or how am I gonna um pay these bills or whatever it might be? You know, it doesn't have to be as extreme as the road that I went down, right? Like, right, I do I do think you know the universe, whatever we're given our own criteria to use that in order to have an awakening and improve ourselves, but right of course, it's up to us if you want to look at it that way. Only if you look at it that way, then will you be able to um use that to your benefit and grow? Yeah, but you know, if you're like, and I've been there in a victim victim mindset where like God, I I was there for I was trapped there for like 10 years. Oh, this yeah, this keeps happening to me, or this person keeps screwing me over. And truth was, I'm screwing myself over.

SPEAKER_02 14:20

So or or this market keeps uh keeps making you lose. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

They're hunting. GJ is hunting my stop loss. The market exactly, yeah, yeah, yeah. I always thought that was funny, dude, because like well, I just imagine, like, you know, Lord Rothschild in a bank in like you know, in Switzerland, and he's like, hmm, put move price action right to where those micro stops maybe. Like Mr.

SPEAKER_02 14:45

Burns or something like that, like Mr.

SPEAKER_00 14:47

Burns, exactly. Like, like they care where your five micro trade is or your five minutes are or your fifty minutes are, you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_02 14:56

We were just talking about that on stream the other day with uh with with some of the guys there where we were talking about how the how the big institutions pay the prop firms to get sim order flow just to see whether where the prop firm sim traders are are positioning.

SPEAKER_00 15:12

I think that's a joke. That is not true. That's not true. Yeah, I will confirm right right now that that's not true.

SPEAKER_02 15:18

I I just I just love the concept of sim order flow. It's like what?

SPEAKER_00 15:22

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Even a live market, dude. They don't care, you know. They don't care about it. They already know where the market's gonna go before it even goes there. But you know, to tie back together, you know, I really like the quote, like, you know, you'll uh really overestimate the place you'll be in two years, yeah, and you'll uh underestimate where you could be in 10 years, which I think Jim Rohn or Tony Robbins.

SPEAKER_02 15:43

And you know, yeah, and it's a it's a little bit like the stock market, right? You will you will underestimate the short term or sorry, overestimate the short term, underestimate the long term, right? Yeah. Um, one of the things that gets, I mean, that gets thrown around a lot in in trading, especially in day trading, is um it's not good to trade from a place of scarcity. Um, I'm sure you've heard that many times as well. How how did you manage coming from you know coming from digging yourself out of that hole um and not having, you know, when you're when you're working towards a payout, not having that become you know next month's rent or uh or or the bills getting paid? How did you pull yourself out of that scarcity mindset and and work towards the longer-term goal?

SPEAKER_00 16:29

I mean, look, I wouldn't say I've pulled myself out of that still in the scarcity mindset, you know what I mean? Because uh it just on a on a bigger scale, you know, like when you have X amount of payouts and you know, you like or I'm moving to Brazil, right? Like right now, I'm in the process of that, and it's like, oh man, how am I gonna make this work? So I think that comes with like faith, but in a practical practical answer, you know, when I was learning how to trade, and this was before prop firms, and what I would do is I was still working, I didn't just like quit my job and okay, I'm trading now. Man, I would work digging ditches. What we did what we did is put down irrigation lines around like new uh apartment buildings when they were being built, and so we dig these massive trenches and stuff. So I'd be out there digging for like seven, eight hours a day to get home and like trade Asian and like part of London session, you know. And what I would do is I would get a paycheck and it'd be two weeks of work and it'd be like you know, eight hundred dollars or twelve hundred, and I put it in like a traders way account, and uh, if you remember them, and uh, which is just like a super sketchy broker that I don't even know if they sit around anymore, you know, with like 1000 to one leverage, and you know, I would try to flip, you know what I mean, and then like uh inevitably blow the account and be in that cycle. So like um I think it's super important to have, especially while you're learning to trade, right? Have like your primary source of income. I mean, maybe maybe you're single and that's or whatever, and that's like less important to you, you know. And if you are, then you can focus on your trading more. But dude, if you got you know, a wife or you're if you're a woman and you got a husband and you got kids and other responsibilities, I don't think you should neglect that for your trading, right? So, and once you do become successful, because uh I'm proof of it, you're proof of it, like you know, you can do this, um, but you know, don't quit your job when you've taken like two or three them payouts, you know. So right now you can other ways to like monetize being around trading and starting a podcast, there's a bunch of different ways to do it.

SPEAKER_02 18:46

So and and and like you said, I mean, I also have that fresh in my memory from the just being at the boot camp in Tampa a month ago, right? Um, you said that before as well. Some of the people that you meet in this business, as soon as you get, you know, as soon as you get past the scammers and and and weed that out because they are also there, but you meet the real people, the serious people, that that's that's one of the best community. I mean, you and I, we've been around, right? It uh we're in our 40s, we've seen stuff and different industries, uh different workplaces, but but this is really the best community I've experienced in any type of industry. As soon as people realize that you're also serious and legit and so on, then then it's really, really, really cool community. Would you agree with that?

SPEAKER_00 19:32

Yeah, oh yeah, for sure. You know, that's what um like uh Austin's one of my best friends, right? So he like and he lived, I lived an hour south of him in Florida, and you know, I was following him and I saw he's in St. Pete and I was in Sarasota, and this is like three years ago. It's like, hey, dude, we should get together and like you know, play golf or something. And that's how we met, right? Before then, it's just like a guy that you see on YouTube or Instagram or whatever, and then you know, not everybody's like this, but you know, when you get together and you're like, Oh, you're just a normal guy like me, you know, trying to figure this out, trying to work it out. So um, it's super important and and healthy to get around people in your nets, and also too, people that I mean, this is pretty much critical, getting around people that are where you want to be for sure. So um the people are cool, and but at the same time, most of them too, you know, unless this is a hobby, are about about the business side of it too. And if you're making it as a trader, you got to be about um look at it that way.

SPEAKER_02 20:33

Yeah, the way I see it, I think I'm so passionate about trading that I want to fill all the hours that I can into my you know my daily work and life. I will fill that up with trading, any kind of activity where I can talk trading, do trading, teach trading, whatever it is, right? I just want to fill up that space with something I'm passionate about. So during all of this, Clay, um, where you you had your construction job, you had uh trading, and you were seeing some success with that. Did you was that also around the time where you were starting the business, the top one business and so on? So you were actually managing three things? No, was that later on?

SPEAKER_00 21:08

That was that that was um top one. It was about four, three years after I'd started okay. So I just built a telegram group and then built a community and then built some coaching courses and you know, and then started to um make income around that, and then that became, but it was enough of a cushion to uh and then and then I was trading as well, took some payouts, FTMO, and that was like almost uh eight years ago. So uh but but my point though with that was like once it started to replace what I was doing with the uh with uh construction, like then I was like, okay, cool, let's go all in on this, but not until also too. I was living alone and you know, in a duplex that was five hundred dollars a month in Nashville, like my side you knows and uh like and the dude on the other side I never saw him it was so bizarre and then I would like it'd be like three in the morning and I'd hear like banging on the walls and stuff like that and and like you know it'd be like groaning but that was like fuel because I was like dude all right I gotta get out of this place yeah and that that was another thing where I just like I'm done dude I'm done yeah right nice but always seeing that next step ahead of you that's super awesome um top one futures then got off the ground as I remember it uh March April last year 2025 how how was that whole sort of what was going on there that must have been a lot of hype a lot of a lot of work uh yeah the launch the launch was crazy man it was I mean I'd say we probably had the biggest launch ever and you know that was thanks to uh you know a lot of the guys that we are working with and and brought on and but we definitely hit some roadblocks for sure you know we we launched our rules were entirely too easy we tried we modeled the rules from uh TOT our CFD firm and put that into like TOF and we're like oh yeah okay but you know uh most of my background was and is with forex trading not so much anymore um because I'm you know infinitely more familiar with future space now than I was um but so you know that the rules that didn't line up let me put it that way we thought it would because we used that as a model we're like oh this is working great for two years for us um is sustainable but you know futures is a different beast the traders are different I think the traders are uh more knowledgeable for sure and more consistent and they also know how to play the prop game better you know some of them just do that and they don't aren't necessarily like trading per se you know what I mean so um but more like sim sim farming sim farming yeah yeah yeah so um so that those are huge roadblocks so you know the first uh four months were extremely difficult but it was a a great great great lesson and would you also say because I'm always um we've talked a little bit about it already uh the people side of things I've been spending tons of time during my career so far on on people and you know the the way to build relations so that you have a stronger business you have uh it's essentially the relations that make up your business is also what's going to create your bottom line that's always kind of how I see it.

SPEAKER_02 24:34

I agree with that did you did you invest in that beforehand like so to me it seems like I I wasn't really I mean I I was following it very much on the sidelines but it seemed like you already sort of thought in the whole idea about you know affiliates and how to get the marketing done how but but not just from a business first perspective but from a people first perspective. I don't know if that makes sense but it's yeah it's kind of how I viewed you guys to begin with.

SPEAKER_00 24:59

Yeah yeah no it makes total sense like you know uh Matt and I and our other founders are great great team um I'm extremely people oriented you know as you know you met me in person and like you know I'm I I like people and I want to hear people's stories and relate to them and tell mine you know and um I think that's one of our strong suits and uh and then you know the the uh yin yin to that or maybe the yang to that yin uh you know Matt's like super into the numbers too really like has everything just dialed in which is which is amazing. I think it is why is a testament to our longevity uh for sure that's you know that's why you see so many props you know pop up and are just like a flash in the pan and then you know like a rug pull right so um I actually you know I I care about everybody like and I like I don't see people as numbers that are are customers you know I see them as people that are figuring out how to trade and wanting to create a new life and a new experience and a better life you know and see uh trading as an avenue for that which it 100% is you know but you gotta take it seriously you can you know make some community it meet some people along the way uh but if you treat it like a business then you know it it will work for you especially if you you know follow good good people like yourself and people you know I appreciate it and and it is a profession it's a profession right it it's something that you need to be as passionate and as serious about as if it was your education your job your your career right yeah I think I think you need to make up your mind if it is that or if it's a hobby. If you like if you like just kind of mixing around and trading a little bit that's totally cool for sure but um to you know really crush it and be somebody that you know takes I mean I man I'm not sure how many payout I think Austin's taking like 60k in payouts or something like that just from us alone. From you guys yeah from us alone and and you know he'll be mad if it's less if it's more than that but uh so but he takes it super serious right so you know you don't have to be on that scale or you don't have to be um you know on my scale I really like the uh question that you prepped for was like um what is the average day of a prop firm yeah the the day in the life of yeah a day in the life of you know and I was like oh okay yeah you know I wake up uh do a little yoga go do uh do some meditation do an open water swim for a quarter mile eat eat some fresh asay and then maybe uh take a nap go for another swim but in reality it's like I I wake up at like 5 30 I got notifications slam a couple coffees throw a Zen in you should just have focused on the trading and you could have done all of that and just trade at the New York session for an hour.

SPEAKER_02 27:55

True true so but it it's however you want to go about it like by the way what I named the first scenario that's you know one day we'll get there that'll be my dream yeah yeah exactly so so yeah but then again dream life right it's not like we want to at least personally I'm not trading to just do nothing for the rest of my life it is it it's a passion it so it is that driving force um and it's just because because of this whole people thing it it really resonates with me and I and and you said it before as well you don't want to see people just as customers and I really I really like that angle because serious traders that trade prop are not really customers they're actually more like staff or like if you get to a live stage certainly you are you're making money for the firm right so it's it's it's a much more integrated approach and I think as a as a prop trader you a lot of people would benefit from adopting that mindset. Would you agree with that?

SPEAKER_00 28:53

Yeah yeah yeah for sure you know I mean I think um look you know the mindset I think you're describing is having a long-term mindset it's like hey look you know if I really like I like these guys I like what they represent let me uh partner up with them and you know see where this will take me rather than just being like okay you know what I'm going to drop a million codes you know it just becomes confusing for people that might follow you and then as a trader too you know look I know how it is too as a trader myself trading props you know sometimes you want to switch it up or you're like oh dude I like lost five of these you know let me try somewhere else like you know so let's start right I understand all that um but the thing that's different about myself and our philosophy and you you know can speak to this too and you know tell me if I'm right or wrong like the relationships that we build especially like on a personal level too like I'm not just gonna leave somebody out to dry right it's like and then you hear that all the time on Twitter and there's like beefs and you know I stay out of Twitter. Austin's like bro you got to get your Twitter pop and I'm like dude I can't take it right but uh exactly yeah yeah so no like but the thing is is I'm loyal in that way too I'm not gonna just like um you know kick anybody the curb or whatever like a trader too that's like you know following the rules and taking payouts it's like that's awesome man like I'm happy for it so exactly it's kind of breeding that kind of mindset and that culture in inside the sort of the community of traders that are trading with TOF right yeah yeah 100% yeah so so so talking props talking accounts um what is moving these days because I know um daily payouts is something that's getting a lot of attention these days you know these evals where you can get past them get funded and then take daily payouts is that something that's really moving right now or what is what is moving in the space right now from your perspective yeah so when we launched uh instant funding instant funded was a thing and you know that really was our like flagship in a lot of ways you know we're still viewed as that and the pendulum is swung in super violent way to the uh um evaluation model which is which is cool I understand it you know there's less rules less consistency um you know there's still stipulations but it also fuels kind of the um churning of accounts too which is a thing right so like yeah I think for a trader being in the middle zone of that because like look the goal for prop trading and if you're new to prop trading this is the uh mindset I would encourage you to adopt it's like these rules are in place to and I'm I'll come around directly answer your question here in a second but you know this will tie into it the rules are in place and especially if you're learning how to trade are in a way like a gift because like I said when I was learning to do this before props I would just put all the money into an account and try to flip it right and that's pretty much what 95% of people do. Now all of a sudden and to in order to take to get paid you have to follow X, Y, and Z rules whatever that might be whether it's consistency rule whether it's you know how many what days of profit you have um what you know there's a ton of different rule sets but you all understand what I'm talking about. So using that rule set and that framework to be like okay wow I'm learning how to trade consistently now you know if I can grow my account by $500 a day over the the course of uh five days $2500 now I know it's it's always going to be up and down right it's not a linear yeah it's not a linear thing but that's the thing so then once you can take enough payouts like uh Austin you know we've talked about him a lot but he was in our live program and you you could see and you're in his community he was taking day daily payouts on from our live account right and they weren't massive payouts but he was doing it every single yeah and the reason and the reason he was able to do that is because he's mastered consistency right and being able to trade consistently now on the other side of that if you are a trader that's just like okay cool if I buy uh twenty thousand dollars of of accounts and get twenty five thousand dollars in payout I've made five thousand dollars well yeah and when you try to take that strategy to your own capital one day that you're like I don't know say you get uh inheritance or you know you have a big business deal or do some real estate or something which I I hope you know would be awesome and then you're like okay cool let me put this in a live broker account yeah you're gonna run through that you're gonna lose that money super quick now the other side of that if you take option A to where you're like oh man let me have a long-term mindset of how I can trade this uh you know consistently like a trader would over X amount of time I can grow this by this say that big payout whatever it was was uh a hundred thousand dollars or five hundred thousand dollars if you could grow it by uh three percent a month man that's gonna be great if it's a hundred K then it'd be an extra three grand a month you know and if it was a million dollars then dude that's 30 right so exactly yeah so that's the thing so if you start learning how to do this you know playing inside the rules that are given I think you can benefit from that and if you look at it that way it's gonna like whereas it takes somebody you know five years or 10 years to um learn how to do this right it could take you one year or even you know six months six months pretty fast so but like you know you can can get sick consistent in that so and then to answer your question so there's those two frameworks and then we have the instant funded and then now the evaluation so I kind of went into that backstory as a caution of like because it invites that now um we have two different right now two different uh evaluation counts the elite dailies which is what you're referring to with daily payouts and then our access account and then our access count is $39.

SPEAKER_02 35:07

And I you know called it that because it's if you're just now learning how to do this uh that is what I would recommend or too if you're somebody that uh has taken some payouts or maybe you're like going through a uh drawdown you know in your mind or something just to get back on the horse that's a great approach too so um I think in the future I can see it kind of swinging back over the pendulum yeah I think so too instant funded or maybe even like a a new account type which we've got a couple in the uh oh nice yeah so I I actually feel like for me personally at least the the pendulum is swinging a little bit back towards the the instant funded because and and that's what I'm trading at the moment that but I'm also in a situation where I can I mean I I can add one or two instant funded to my sort of portfolio per month right if if I kind of churn them like that but it's that but that's not it's how long have you been trading prof uh almost a year now oh okay so see that's that's great man so like just using what I said so maybe you started with uh you know like a I don't really want to name it but an eval right an eval model and then you're like oh cool okay so this starting to make sense now oh all right so you know I don't have to try to make it all in two days or get a payout in three days right so now you can use say a 20% consistency rule is like an example you can get a payout in five days if you can follow that you know so so that's the thing but you have to learn how to be able to uh walk away from the uh poker table or out of the casino you know what I mean like and honestly clay I think a lot of people including myself is so I mean when when you're this new to trading and you've like maybe you've got your your first few in instant funded accounts or you've passed an evil and got a funded account the consistency rule I mean I I struggle to hit the consistency score on a daily basis. It's quite a lot of money actually right so especially if you're just trying to send it exactly so so I think I feel like um the advice is kind of two pronged so so like what you're saying if you're new to trading use that eval stage take as much time as you need like gain that consistency it's an excellent proving ground right to learn the learn the ropes uh and get accustomed to trading and then go move to the to the funded stage yeah if you're if you're an experienced trader that might be a little bit different right because then you are actually kind of looking to just save money on the on the actually getting the account by buying a challenge account and then you might you it might be looking like you're flipping it right but you know exactly what you're doing so you're gonna go fast through that eval stage would you say that is that is also do you see traders do that when they're experienced yeah that makes sense for sure you know things are gonna speak to different people in a different way you know as as long as if you said that was a two-prong approach even just adding that third one of like hey you know one day I I don't want to have to trade with prop firms. Right.

SPEAKER_00 38:06

So you know having that approach be like and you know maybe that's a five year timeline. Yeah dude in five years like most people aren't out of school or you know college or you know they're out of college and then they're paying it back and there's still not even a job and a job they went to college for you know what I mean so um it's important to keep that in mind. Easier said than done. 100% I uh know that better than anybody for sure.

SPEAKER_02 38:32

I actually I remember a question I wanted to ask you before because something that also attracts me to props um and and also that aspect of loyalty is you get familiar with the rule set and and you kind of it get becomes second nature so you know the rules of these accounts and you just you're not thinking about it anymore. Simplicity of rules is that something that counts for you guys and also is um is that something that you think into it do you also see the space moving towards more simplicity or more customization?

SPEAKER_00 39:03

Uh I think that's well that's a great question for sure. I'm a big fan of just having super simple rules that are cut and dry you know and so you know this is some of the feedback that we've gotten like people like ah they have too many rules but we just tell you what they are right like so um when you know the payouts that I was talking to that been denied for myself and and Matt and you know it was because they're like oh no you didn't read clause C section two and the traders contract you know like uh and then so they that was like their excuse to not to not do the payout right so like we want to be as transparent as possible and make them as simple as possible so it's a two-way street that it's you know uh obviously we um there's a business involved too right so um but we wanted to be hey these are the rules you follow the rules you're gonna get paid yeah yeah I love it that that's really I mean I would say too just to add on to that like if somebody's new to this or getting into the space read the FAQs of every account that you buy whether it's ours or somebody else's super critical because you know there's like the the dashboard or like the main page with like kind of the blank rule like the broad rules hey this is your max loss limit this your consistency but you should definitely be familiar with the uh FAQs.

SPEAKER_02 40:25

Yeah and and and especially again if you're trading multiple firms you really quickly I've I mean been there done that you really quickly get confused uh across these different firms and there are nuances to all the rules and so on right so yeah so it's really critical. Let me ask you a question uh to copy trade or not to copy trade that's so copy trade uh is something that I've been doing for the last three months now um and obviously if you are going to copy trade again talking from experience read the FAQs and so you're doing it across different uh props like no I'm not doing third party copying I'm using so I'm I'm using the three accounts that I have with with uh with you guys uh the 350Ks and I'm copying them as a group in trade of eight so okay so and then I have my full around account kind of it's also a sim funded so it's not really a full around account but it's it's just uh uh it's it's what I do so I normally won't take more than one or two trades a day but if I see a third setup I'll take it on that account so it's kind of how I spread the risk out a little bit right yeah I like that I like that when do you think somebody should start copy trading um consistency is really key I think so that I mean the as when you when you feel like you've got consistency that then it's time to scale up um I'll share with you I mean I I had Claude build a scaling plan for me right and and it had all this pushback on me to answer whether I felt like I was emotionally um uh in a good place like I wanted to be where I can trade uh mechanically with that one account so I really really really important to get your emotions dialed in and have that sort of steady um another hack I've applied is um is to only you know I track my trades you could use whatever journaling software you want I only toggle on that one account so I only ever see the stats for one account and the PL and all that so emotionally I you know I'll be I'll be up on so I'll I'll be up across three accounts but I'll only see the PNL of one because you know when you're when you have 350Ks and your target is 3k you're gonna fool yourself if you think you made 1200 on the day when in reality you're you made 400 across the across the three accounts right because you're not closer to your payout.

SPEAKER_00 42:39

Yeah and so for anybody too that's listening to that that means uh yesper actually cares about his trading and not just flexing on Instagram for you guys to think exactly he's made more because you could easily put all three on there and then okay all right so I made four grand today.

SPEAKER_02 42:57

So uh in in your trade sinker 20 account copying right dude that just tells me you're an honest guy for sure so I I think that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 43:05

Once again what's what's Claude coming in what's Claude Claude you know the AI I'm just joking too I don't even eat before I ask Claude what I should be eating today.

SPEAKER_02 43:17

I'm actually I'm such a I said I said that to you as well when we were prepping this I'm such a dinosaur when it comes to to all the different apps and software you can use so it's um it's it's that is the biggest learning for me this past six months is trying to get all this stuff together on socials.

SPEAKER_00 43:33

Yeah totally for sure uh but yeah no that's a great point I think copy trading too and the reason why I brought that up too is like um if you're new man just focus on one account like you know or even buy three and you know maybe you don't make it on one you still have two as a backup and doesn't like have the emotional weight that like you know copying five and then you lose five and you're like oh man you know they were right I can't do this like this is never gonna work out you know and you end up spending like you know a thousand bucks or whatever that might be I think you should you should definitely have taken at least a few payouts before you start copy trading you need to be able to prove to yourself that you've got your system dialed in you've got your process dialed in uh and then think about scaling your mindset because the mindset exactly which I love that hack that you said about not showing all you know your accumulative PL so that's awesome I I like that a lot it's it's pointless when you think about it but people do it right uh unless unless you're not mentioning your names yeah unless you're looking at stroke your ego yeah exactly yeah all right and and and clay thanks for for also sharing uh some uh some teasers around the uh the near term future for for TOF it's uh it's gonna be really exciting to see what's gonna come out can you share anything about the timeline are we talking weeks or months for someone who's 2.0 about four weeks something cool that we have coming down the pipeline for sure is is a new platform I'm not gonna say it because we haven't announced it yet um but I think I think uh traders are gonna be extremely excited about it and it has a functionality too that's beyond um just a lot of the ones that are popular now are um you know just for prop trading right but it's much more robust than that and in fact you know you can even like you could even stream on it you could do your streams on the platform yeah yeah yeah so dude it's sick it's sick for sure so awesome we're we're super pumped about that we have something you know 2.0 is what we're calling it so new dashboard new back end uh faster payouts a new account type gonna be rolling out there with it and then and the platform too and so with that too we'll be able to hold competitions um inside the platform as well and I was thinking it would be sick to do like a a world cup like a traders world cup because we have sure yeah I don't know I mean you're European do you are you like into soccer too or or no well i i'm personally I'm not but I I'll I'll watch it and I'll play it if I need to right one thing I was thinking clay is is the writers' cup right pretty much a lot of people golf right we could do europe versus us i i'm i'm more excited about the world cup because i'm about to move to brazil so like i i'm a little of course yeah did you see the norwegian uh press photo no i'll share that with you it was like the entire norwegian national team dressed as vikings in a fjord in front of these viking longboats it was that's it was just class yeah super awesome okay really looking forward to it and we're gonna be wrapping up here it's been an excellent conversation and we have to do a part two at some point yeah we can do it all day it feels like it i'm chilling i don't know how long people would want to watch but uh i'll give you all energy don't worry thank you so much for coming on clay yeah man it's been a blast any questions one last like banger of a question or anything before you well i can do one that classic one of if you had to give give one piece of advice to upcoming traders people chasing their first payout what would that be oh easy just delete your telegrams your discords probably X and you know maybe find one dude or chick or whatever one one guy or girl one person that you really resonate with and one trader you resonate with and one like self-development person you resonate with you know so you feed your mind with the development and then you can get the uh the the trading knowledge too and yeah and get off the like you know the scrolling through other people and X and the the drama comparing yourself compare comparisons the thief of all joy they say I would say that's true. So it is yeah so you know and it's so important too because like you know like um not many people know behind the scenes what actual how many payouts people are taking compared to how much they're buying I do yeah right so at least if they traded with us right so like you know things are not like they seem so you know if stay in your lane man and just focus on your goals your vision get that super dialed in like in your mind and then you know you can make it reality but you're not going to be able to until you're clear on that. And then having all this noise and you know I don't know if people still use Telegram anymore it tells you how old I am but having like 50 different Discords you know and you're just cycling through them and it's a group chat and it's a group chat and notifications like that's all noise like focus on your mindset your strategy and then like your your journaling for sure. And it's and it's so biased because people are only sharing their wins right even if it's like a small private discord they're showing their wins right so so I would say that excellent piece of advice but also of course buy Bitcoin at the dip right um yeah yeah yeah I I think so yeah I mean it's it's I think it's still dipping right now so I don't know dipping yeah maybe a little later I don't know when that is but I'm a fan of Bitcoin I'm a fan of Monero I'm a fan of and a huge fan of John McAfee okay spill it like what what what are you always expecting not know who he is no I don't what oh my god come on come on share it with me man okay where to even start on john McAfee dude he was like a an basically an outlaw he um he he developed McAfee you remember McAfee antivirus yeah yeah yeah he created that he created okay in the 90s and then sold it he like and then he sent it to the government they were using it got like so he got like all their secrets and shit and then so he was like on the run living in Belize um man I don't even know where to begin with that like who who is he but like and he was just like an out of control very alcoholic um they ended up putting him in jail in Spain this was in like 2000 huge crypto guy huge crypto guy ran for president under the libertarian ticket in the United States um his libertarian speech is awesome by the way and uh yeah and then they put him in jail in Spain under like tax evasion and uh you know and then he committed suicide but he had a he had a he created a crypto coin called suicided because he knew had had a tattoo had it tattooed on him because he knew they were coming after him dude it if you don't all right just go down a John McAfee rabbit hole after this people are gonna think that I'm crazy for uh like that but like I think the the average 22 year old uh the average 22 year old listener will probably not remember McAfee down back in the 90s but uh well no but I remember the logo yeah but not not in the 90s but they probably know if they're into crypto they would know who he is I mean he was probably they offed him in like 2000 uh probably like 2004 so was he it it does ring a little bit of a bell was he also in Switzerland at some point um yeah switzerland Spain he was all over yeah yeah okay I I think so I think I've heard of it yeah well there you go I learned something new oh dude you have no idea and so he was a huge crypto guy and he was there when they started it too and you know supposedly he knows who uh Nakamoto was Satoshi but yeah then it turns out then it turned out it was Epstein in the Epstein files so I don't even know man that's that's what created this huge sell-off remember when that came out and then it just like dropped like right right 20k well I'm but yeah I mean I'm hearing all kinds of things about a four year cycle and you know it's gonna it's gonna bottom out in October and then we just buy and pile in and then uh it's upwards from there. Okay without pulling up my chart I had it and I remember from the last high it made to the last low it we're headed toward or from the low not the last low but the low and then it made one last high and we're headed to the 161.8 fib level I'm a big trader and so and that came comes in right at 43k there you go so if it hits that you know that's that would be the spot to buy it. If it goes past that it's probably going to zero.

SPEAKER_02 52:30

Yeah probably yeah it's like a tipping point.

SPEAKER_00 52:33

Awesome awesome well on that note Clay thanks for spending obvious uh all right dude yeah thanks and uh great pleasure yeah appreciate your time if you made it this far um and if you're trading with top one we really appreciate you guys for sure and we appreciate you thanks for coming on