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Fitness Coach and Day Trader - Jorden Pagel

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In the Season 1 finale, I’m joined by Jorden Pagel, a Southern California based health and fitness coach who transitioned into trading after a client introduced him to the markets. We discuss how his gradual, habit-based transformation from being overweight to building a fitness career parallels developing as a trader: consistency, routines, journaling, and avoiding the “more is better” trap in both training and trading. Jorden shares his progression from options to futures via prop firms for lower-cost reps, moving from basic support/resistance toward VWAP-based entries, and how recent market conditions have reduced trade frequency. We also cover balancing entrepreneurship with supporting his fiancée’s new orthodontic practice, and trading early on the West Coast; plus the importance of sleep, nutrition, and exercise for performance. Jorden frames trading as competition with yourself, emphasizing probability-based execution, stress reduction through sizing, and long-term goals like consistent payouts, swing trading options, and eventually teaching.

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SPEAKER_00

Trader Dane here with an important message. Everything you hear me or my guests say on this podcast is to be considered for educational and entertainment purposes only. It is not financial advice. You should do your own research before making financial decisions, just like in any other part of life. So with that, let's get started with the podcast.

SPEAKER_01

And so, like taking care of yourself physically is really what helps you take care of yourself mentally, because I don't know, you know, I don't know a lot of people who are successful that also don't like take care of themselves physically in some way. I've said this since I started that um trading is like the most enjoyable yet frustrating skill that I have ever tried to learn. And I think that is because there's a few things, other things I found in life that expose your mental and emotional weaknesses, like trading. Like you I don't think you can trade stressed. Like I just don't think it works. Like there's too much going on, too much emotion involved. Um so the less stressful you can make it, the more comfortable you can be with the process.

SPEAKER_00

All right, welcome everybody to the Trader Dane podcast. This is the season finale for season one, uh, as I am about to head off on summer holiday. Um, and it's gonna be a good one because I am guested by Jordan Pagel. I hope I'm pronouncing that right, otherwise, correct me. Welcome to the show, Jordan. Hey man, thanks for having me. It's Pagel, actually, but that's okay. Everybody's Pagle, okay. Yeah, everybody can pronounce it the other way. So awesome, awesome. Welcome to the show. Uh, really happy to have you here. Um, I've got a lot on my mind. I I want to discuss a lot of different things with you because I know you're a very, very uh active uh businessman as well as a trader. Um, but maybe if you could just briefly uh introduce yourself to the audience and just talk a little bit about what got you to where you are today.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, for sure. So yeah, my name's Jordan Potlum and I live in uh Southern California in Orange County uh with my fiance. Um I have been a health and fitness coach for the past uh 12 years now, since yeah, 2014. Um before that, I was um, you know, I was just kind of working in business and sports management, and there's somebody who was I I was overweight my whole life. Um after college, I got into like working out in fitness and stuff like that, lost a bunch of weight, um, got into the fitness space. I was doing that for a long time. I'm still doing that, I'm still coaching. Um but a couple of years ago, one of my clients actually introduced me to trading and taught me how to trade the basics of the trading, the markets, you know, stuff that I really had no idea on before that. Um, and I I just fell in love with it. So the last couple of years um on and off, I've been trading the last year specifically. It's been pretty much, I would say, like full-time every single day, um, outside of my normal, my normal commitments. But um, yeah, that's kind of a little bit about me, still relatively new to trading compared to uh a lot of people in the space. But um I absolutely love it. So it's it's been uh it's been a great experience so far.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, you get obsessed with that as well, right? Just like fitness and working out. You're exactly the kind of profile that that I love having on this podcast because my audience is is really, I mean, people in in the in that grind, you know, developing, upcoming, trying to make it work. Um, so it's it's it's perfect because it's so much easier to relate to people who are learning, who are developing. It's easy to listen to Lance Breitstein's saying about how how all the struggles he's been through 10 years ago. Yeah, it's so much more relatable to say, well, I'm going through it right now, just like you, just like me, etc. Right. So and you've seen some adversity in your life. I'm actually a little bit curious about so you you you were overweight in childhood and and growing up, and so you've made a really conscious but also a big shift in your life, and that was probably what 10 years ago, 12 years ago?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, as uh Ranford graduated college, it's a little bit about about 15 years ago now. Yeah, so it took me a few years.

SPEAKER_00

What what what thing what what do you think triggered it? Like, was it was it a sudden shift or was it like gradual over time?

SPEAKER_01

No, it was you know, it's kind of I I find it kind of weird because you know, I hear people talk about they have like you know, like this big aha moment or something like that. Like I had tried and failed to lose weight a number of times, like throughout college specifically, couldn't never really stick with anything, hated exercise. Um, but after I graduated college, I moved back home to where I was from in Wisconsin and was working, didn't really have a ton of friends that were left in town, so I didn't really have a lot else to do outside of work. So I kind of started hanging out at the local YMCA that had like, you know, a pool, uh hot tub, my steam room, all that kind of stuff. And you know, kind of got to know some of the guys there and would like talk and BS with them while we were like working out or something like that. And it kind of got to the point where I noticed like I was starting to see like some changes just from like being consistent. Um, and that just kind of got me interested in being like, okay, what you know, I really haven't been trying too hard and I'm seeing some results. What could I what could happen if I actually started like trying harder, being more intentional about it. And so that just kind of led me down the path. And it was a very slow process, but I think that's actually what helped me stick with it, is because it wasn't like some drastic shift or something I was trying to do overnight. It was something that took me a couple of years, but that allowed me to like build habits that I continue to you know is part of my life to this day.

SPEAKER_00

It it becomes part of your life, right? It actually rings the bell for me because I'm I'm reading atomic habits right now. Have you read it? Yeah. It this thing about you know switching your environment uh to to make it easy to stick with that new habit, right? It's kind of what what you've been going through, moving back home, getting set up with that different environment, and then that kind of facilitated your path there, right? Yeah, 100%. Awesome. Um, so you're in great shape today, and then you started uh you started trading a couple of years ago. Um, I guess gradually taking it more seriously. I kind of feel like you also we were both in Tampa and back in May. Um that obsession, that passion for the markets, for trading itself, you said you didn't know anything about it before. How has that transition been? Was that an epiphany? Was that an aha moment, or was it also like, okay, I'm learning a little bit gradually, I'm adjusting my habits, adjusting my day to make this fit, um, and then growing like that?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, for sure. It was definitely something that was very gradual for me. I think at the beginning, like I don't know what I was doing or what a strategy looked like or stuff like that. Like the the the guy who I learned it from, like he you know taught the basics and stuff like that. But I think where I really learned a lot was just you know being on different live streams and just like watching people in action. Like I'm a very visual example-based type of learner, and so being able to watch people take trades, listen to why they took the trades, what they were thinking, why they didn't take a trade, you know, why they stayed out or something that that has been very helpful for me. And I think you know, during that first year, I was very on and off trading. I wasn't like doing it every single day. There was a period of time where I didn't do it for a couple weeks or even a month. Um, but kind of once I got into trading more futures, because I started off trading options actually, once I got into trading more futures and prop firms and kind of that much lower barrier cost entry that that allowed me to trade every single day and get those reps in, get that practice and actually you know try things out, make mistakes, lose, you know, and see what worked and what didn't for me specifically.

SPEAKER_00

Yep. Yeah, I agree. So prop firms really do create an arena for practicing, right? That that's that's really what it is. Because eventually I think we all want to go to at some point, we all want to go trade our live capital, but but I think one of the reasons people failed trading a couple of decades ago, and the reason it has the reputation it does, is because you you could only really practice with your own money. And and so people quit very quickly, right? So prop prop has has actually changed that, I think. Um, and it sounds like you have that same experience. So you mentioned options. How was your experience with that? Just because I'm curious.

SPEAKER_01

I I love options, I think. Well, because I think it also allowed it opens up the you know uh the door to uh more on more options for lack of a better term, in terms of like trading individual socks, different strategies. Like I don't do any of the complex complex stuffs like you know, um spread, like I don't even know, they're all called spread bits, yeah, all that kind of stuff, like iron condors, all that kind of stuff. I have no clue I can tell you what any of those are. I buy and sell calls and puts it about it, but it has like I really enjoy swing trading. So that's something that like you know, in a practice account, I've been working on and kind of refining my strategy there. So I love that and just the the you know, the exponential growth that options can have too. Like if you hit the right trade, like it can go exponentially, like 500,000, 1500, 2000 percent um in a relatively short amount of time. So I think that there's a lot of um there's a lot of benefits to it. Um, but it's also something that I it's yeah, I have been focusing more on futures recently. So it's not something I do. I just kind of started getting back into it regularly again um with uh an options problem, but primarily my um my focus has been futures the last the last year or so.

SPEAKER_00

Right. I I I prefer futures. I mean, I haven't really dealt into uh into options, but it's it's just easy, right? Uh yeah. I started getting yeah, it's fine.

SPEAKER_01

With with with futures, it's very straightforward in terms of like you know if you have one contract and it moves 10 points, you're gonna make X amount of money with options. There's so much more to worry about with the Greeks and time decay and zero PTs versus we it's much more complex, but I think having started off learning that that kind of helped me going into futures um that just kind of made the transition a little simpler for me, where it's going from futures to options, have it never trade options before is definitely I think more challenging.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, you you you got some battle scars from options that you can then sort of yeah. Um cool, very cool. Um, so as you mentioned you learned uh I mean you were learning through live streams. I I agree with that. I think live streams are really one of the only places where you can get transparency in a space that can be quite scammy, right?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um so I I really I really agree with that. Um were there any particular like styles? You don't have to mention any names or mentors or anything like that, but styles that you picked up on early on, and are you still trading the same thing you learned, or have you changed?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so I think where I found the most success early on, and you know, I put success in quotes because that it didn't make me necessarily any money, but it helped me under just understand how the market moves better. Um, was really just like basic support and resistance key levels, like prior day highs and lows, pre-margain highs and lows, weekly highs and lows, just kind of trading off those levels, opening range, that kind of stuff. So it was very easy for me to conceptualize like, hey, if price breaks this certain level, I want to come to come, I want to see it come back, retest, hold, then I'm gonna go short or long. Like that that became very easy for me. Um, I found that it wasn't working super well for me. I was very consistent in terms of my wins, losses, losses would be a lot bigger than my wins. And so it definitely wasn't um the perfect strategy for me. And as I've transitioned, you know, found Austin, uh Randy, Evan, like those guys, like the VWAP strategy has made things just much simpler for me. I still use like those those basic support resistance levels as confluence or price targets or whatever. Yeah, but my I've now transitioned into more of just like getting my entries as close to VWAP as possible because you know, for whatever reason, that has just resonated with me so much more than anything else in the past has.

SPEAKER_00

I'm right there with you. Actually, just a quick question on the price action. I mean, June has been a tough month for me. Um, I want to ask you if if uh have you true you've been trading VWAP, how how has June been treating you the last few weeks?

SPEAKER_01

Um I haven't looked at I haven't looked at my stats from earlier this month. I was gone for about a week where I didn't trade at all. And then in the in the past week since I got back, I've only taken like two futures trades. So I've not actually found a lot of entries. I've been kind of playing using the time to play my auctions account a little bit more. Um so it's definitely been a more challenging month, I would say for sure. But um I and earlier this month I did pass one of my evals, my lucid evals is a funding account, and so that's kind of my main account because that's yeah, those are a little bit easier to get tail done. So that's kind of what I've been focusing on. But last few weeks, I you know, between being gone and just not finding a lot of great entries, haven't taken too many trades, honestly.

SPEAKER_00

Right. And and I I've been flat for the past three sessions, besides despite having actually sat there and I've been live streaming right for an hour and a half, but I haven't taken any trades uh in three sessions consecutively. So it's just not really conducive. Also, I've been on a bit of a losing streak, so my confidence is low, but that is what it is. We're constantly working with this, right? I think it's a wise move, my wise move not to trade too much this month. Um cool. Um I wanted to circle back and ask you a little bit about because some one of the things I'm really curious about is so most people will have a day job, they will start learning how to trade, um, and that's it. And then they struggle with this balance. I'm there myself, you know. I have a day job, I struggle with with trying to trade at the same time. And in Europe, trading is three 3:30 in the afternoon, yeah, all that stuff. Um, but but if I'm looking at at you, I'm seeing uh uh an independent entrepreneur uh running a fitness health uh coaching uh company. Correct me if I'm wrong. That's that's what I'm seeing. You're also active on socials, you're promoting, you're you're showing your trading, but you're also promoting your your business. Um and then you have the business, right? You're running the business, actually doing it, I guess making your living off of that. How on earth do you find the time in a day to do all of that? How do you balance life?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so I guess first and foremost, just from like a work perspective, you know, I've been coaching for 12 years now, so I'm fairly efficient at, you know, kind of the the work portion of it. But you know, when I started training, I was 100% like running my own coaching business. So I was not just coaching, I was doing sales, marketing, social media, like everything. Um later in 2024, 2026, yeah, 2024, I made the decision to um go on board with a friend of mine who also runs his own coaching business and do coaching for him. So I I made this city partially so I could have more time freedom to trade specifically because I wasn't doing training so much. So my business now is more of my own personal brand. I do coaching with somebody else. But now at the same time, my fiance who is an orthodontist has opened up her own business. So I'm involved in housing that as well. So the last couple of months, as we've opened the office, it has really been uh new for me because with coaching, especially online, I've always been very flexible in where I work, when I work, as long as the work gets done, as long as I get back to clients, it's not too big a deal. So trading at, you know, especially here on the West Coast, 6 30 to 8 a.m., which is when I trade, it's not not too big a deal anyway. I'm an early morning person, so that's not too big of a deal for me. But it's definitely been a shift in my schedule now, is having to be more registered. Okay, I can't really trade past eight because I have to go answer client messages, go to the office, make sure that you know I'm there for X amount of hours as well. So it's definitely been a shift. Um, but I'm fortunate in the fact that one, I think being on the West Coast kind of gives you that advantage from a more schedule standpoint, as long as you're an early morning person, which I am. Uh, but it's definitely been a shift for sure. But I'm also fortunate where I had very flexible compared to a lot of people with a normal nine time job.

SPEAKER_00

So right. That's awesome. And I did actually see that uh you were posting pictures on your socials from that opening, that office opening with your fiance.

SPEAKER_01

Grand opening, yeah. Yeah, how did it go? It was great. Uh we had yeah, we got a couple of new patients from it, and we just hired our first employee. So um we're we're starting to get going with with that as well. So it's definitely um, yeah, definitely gonna be taking up more of my time, but um it's it's been fun for sure.

SPEAKER_00

But that's also growth, right? And your your fiance is an entrepreneur as well. That's just that just makes it even more awesome. I think it's it's it's super cool that you manage to do all these things. I've got some um some questions as to sort of um the fitness versus you know the the trading. Um, I'm sure you you will agree that there are similarities, like the regimen, the the discipline. Um, can we speak a little bit to that? Like what do you find sort of can can be transferred from from the fitness world, from the health world into trading? Um, and have you benefited from any of that?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, for sure. I think one of the biggest uh similarities is routine, right? Like getting the reps in, doing similar things day to day, like journaling, being on the charts. Like you're probably not gonna be good at trading if you're only on the charts two times a week and you don't journal and stuff like that. Same thing with fitness if you're only in the gym two times one week, one time the next, three days. Like there's no consistency. Consistency, you know, whether it's two days to week, three days for a week, four days to week, whatever, like consistency is really what drives building habits, it's what drives results. And I've noticed the same thing in trading. Like I like I said, in the first year that I was trading, I was doing it very inconsistently and really didn't see like any sort of linear progress or growth when once I started trading futures and did start trading consistently. Like it was so frustrating at times for sure, but I definitely see like my progress where I was improving, where I needed to work on. And so I think having some sort of routine that you follow that allows you to identify, you know, your strengths, your weaknesses, and kind of what your progress is, that's what's gonna allow you to continue to get better and to continue to grow. Um I think the other big thing is in both training and in fitness, is like more is not better. I think we both know that the more trades you take, not necessarily that's not necessarily gonna make you a better trader, right? It's not gonna either be more successful. Same thing with fitness, you know, going to the gym every single day isn't necessarily the best thing for a lot of people, like, or you know, being at an ultra strict diet or whatever is like it's you need to have a balance, right? Uh yeah, and I think that people getting this this idea in their head, whether it be fitness or trading or whatever, like more is better, I have to take more trades, I have to work out more, I'm gonna have better results that way. That's not what I've thought to be the case at all. Having a balance of you know, stress management, training, nutrition, and just doing things, like I said, consistently, not necessarily like going for this 30-day sprint and then falling off for two months or whatever it might be.

SPEAKER_00

I think you're you're absolutely right. Having that, and and again, back to the atomic habits, if you have a disciplined life set up already, I think trading becomes easier because you just transfer that discipline into the the new activity, right? Um, I also I think what you're saying about it's not necessarily just trading too much, it's also, I mean, what I was the issue that I had to begin with was I wanted to fill all my hours with trading, you know. So I was reading books, I was um, I was studying charts, I was watching YouTube. Um, and and you also have to realize, I hope you'll agree with that, you also have to realize at some point that the the cup is full, right? You you you you actually confuse yourself or or sabotage yourself if you try to constantly add more knowledge, add more analysis, right? Yeah, would you agree with that?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, well, and you had I uh I'll liken it to like the gym. Like if you want to build muscle, you can't just go to the gym three hours every day and expect to build muscle. Like you need you're gonna destroy muscle. Yeah, to build muscle, you have to rest, recover, and all that kind of stuff. So I think there's there needs to be a balance between being on and being honest. Like you can't your brain can't process information, can't recover, it can't like you know, use that information that you are taking in if you're not giving it time to recover, to de-stress, all that kind of stuff. So there has to be that there has to be that balance. And I think like, yeah, I love watching training videos and learning as much as I can, but now, like uh two years into it, I fully understand that like more is definitely not better. Like, I want to think more about kind of how to get better at what I'm doing, not add more strategies or things or stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and the more you the more reps you get in, you also start to build intuition, like you will you will understand, maybe subconsciously you will understand when it's a good setup and when it's not, even though it checks your boxes. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, 100%. And it's also if you're if you're um I've been going to the gym for I don't know, 25 years um regularly, right? So I I will also be much more attuned to when I'm close to an injury, for example, a sprain, whatever it is, than someone just starting out, right? I'll I'll notice all these signals, right? Um, so it's it's it's kind of the same thing. Um yeah, or even like you know, uh diet is a very popular thing, challenge for a lot of people that I I work with.

SPEAKER_01

But the more like you do it, the more you like track your food, long your meals, like follow meal plan, whatever, the better intuition you have to have of. How many calories you need to eat a certain day, or what your meal should look like, or something like that. And that's where it becomes like, you know, like you said, that intuition, that autopilot where you can do things without having to specifically, you know, follow XYZ plan or whatever.

SPEAKER_00

A dietary plan, it's that's pretty much like a journal, right? You just take that and do the same thing with your trading. Yeah. That's awesome. Is there, I mean, is there any merit to the idea that because I quite agree with the idea that day trading is a little bit bit like elite sports, like um elite athletics, where you need to be at the top of your game, both physically and mentally. Um as a coach, having worked with people, I don't know if you've been working with elite athletes, um, but I'm sure you're aware of how that works and the commitment and the time that it takes and so on. Would you also say that day trading is is that kind of activity where you need to like lock in on a different level? It's not just something you can do with your left hand on a Tuesday afternoon. You have to sort of it's it's a little bit counter to what we just discussed. Like you have to rest as well, but you need to do it in a structured way to get better.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I would say for sure, it's it's a performance-based uh career, for sure. Um, like you have to be, I think you have to be mentally quote unquote locked in. I don't know if you have to be like, you know, guys, I think you know, we've all watched Boston trade and like those guys talk about you know sports and stuff like that, whatever they're trading. I don't think you have to be like locked in, focused on the charts, watching every single candle, like just going back to what you said. The more you do it, the more you develop that intuition. But I also believe like you can't be a successful trader or entrepreneur business person if you are not taking care of yourself physically, which ties, which leads to taking care of yourself mentally as well, because the two are really connected. Like, you do want, like take care of one house, take care of the other. Um sleep is obviously a very important one. Like I, you know, I get up obviously trading on the West Coast, it's a lot earlier, and I can definitely tell on the nights where I might not have had as great a sleep when I get to the charts, and that'll make me say, like, okay, I'm just gonna be a little bit extra costly this morning. I don't want to like rush into any decisions or something like that. But the, you know, the food that we eat is very important to energy production, like how our bodies function, produce energy, uh, hormones which tie into cognitive performance and energy levels and stuff like that. And of course, exercise as well. You know, it's something that helps regulate energy levels and cognitive improvement, especially things like strength training, have shown multiple direct benefits to uh brain performance and brain function and longevity and fighting off like Alzheimer's and stuff like that. And so, like taking care of yourself physically is really what helps you take care of yourself mentally, because I don't know, you know, I don't know a lot of people who are successful that also don't like take care of themselves physically in some way, you know, like they might not be ripped at 80% body fat or whatever, these huge strong people, but they're doing they have these habits that allow them to feel and perform as best as they can during the day. And that's ultimately what is gonna help you be a better trader.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, agree. And that again, the habits they spill over to multiple as facets of life, right? Yeah. Um, something about I wanted to touch on with you as well is competitiveness. Um, I often hear that I mean you need to be competitive as a day trader, it's a zero-sum game. We're out there fighting each other. Um how do you see that? And also with your with your sports, your your fitness background, is is trading to you competitive?

SPEAKER_01

I would say that it's I think it's only really a competition with yourself. I mean, I you know, people trash talk on social media, each other, and like you know, stuff like that. But I think at the end of the day, but that's that's a different purpose. Right. That's yeah, I at the end of the day, like it's uh I've said this since I started that um trading is like the most enjoyable yet frustrating skill that I have ever tried to learn. And I think that is because there's a few things, other things I've found in life that expose your mental and emotional weaknesses, like trading, especially when it comes to like finances and money. Um, and so for me, like that has that was a huge eye-opener, but I also looked at it as opportunities to like, okay, like if I want to, if I'm serious about trading and I want to do better at this, these are the things that I need to improve. And I think that is ultimately like a competition with yourself, getting better, like trying to get better each day, making better decisions, having a better stop loss, taking better entries, staying out of more subpar trades. Like at the end of the day, it's you know, you're not competing with anybody but yourself. Yeah, but I think it is definitely a self-improvement um skill, career, whatever you want to call it, more so than almost anything else that I've got to think.

SPEAKER_00

I I'm I'm gonna paraphrase myself. I I said in a previous episode that it's the most potent self-improvement program you can come across. It really is, right? It's it goes and it gets in your head and you need to improve yourselves. So how so how do you actually do that? It's that kind of 1% uh mentality, like improve a little bit every day. Do you structure that in a way? Like, do you do you do daily reviews of your trades, focus on your mistakes, dive into your losing trades and so on? How do you how do you do that continuous improvement?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, um journaling and doing trade markups has has definitely helped. Um Austin like put me out to that. Like I didn't really do. I did journaling but and reviews, but I didn't really have a great tablet for it. Like I didn't really know like what I was looking for. Um doing a lot of chart markups, reviewing trades, even that I didn't take um, I think the the screen time at the end of the day, I think it comes down to like confidence. And I don't think you can get the confidence if you aren't getting those reps in as far as reviewing, writing down like trades, like why you entered a trade. That's been a huge help for me, is just talking through my reasoning, why, and then also to like trying to identify at the end of each day like what is one thing that I want to improve on? Like, is it sizing better? Is it you know, sticking with my stop loss or holding a trade through to my price target instead of cutting it early because I'm worried it's not gonna go all the way? Like, what is one thing that I can work on? And I think using like AI too to like review your journals and I I use it to like spot commonalities and like identify stuff that maybe I didn't see in the moment or whatever. And that's also been very helpful in just kind of like again trying to identify like okay, what are the what are my potential leak points, what are the recurring themes in my training, um, so that I can be more aware of it. Because I talk about this in fitness all the time, like especially with nutrition, like the more aware you are about the habits and why you do things, you know, why you overeat on the weekends or you know, whatever it might be, the more they could start putting things into play to help counteract that. Because if you're not aware of a problem or something, you can't do really anything to fix it because you're not aware of it, you're not aware it's happening.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And so following on that, what is currently or recently, what has been your biggest struggle trading-wise?

SPEAKER_01

You know, I was thinking about that today. I think I think I am being a little too cautious right now, um, which I think has served me well in some respects. Like, I don't blow through accounts, I keep accounts for long periods of time, but I also think that it that leads me to being a little bit too cautious, not taking entries that intuitively I know are probably solid setups. Um like I think yesterday, like the prime example, I don't I'm sure you saw the the double red trait that played out in short, even though like we're pretty pretty strong overall uptrend. And you know, I've been reviewing all the data, I'm like, okay, this is probably a trait that I should be taking regardless. If it loses, fine, but the stats support that it should probably be taken. BS or NQ. Uh what was it? ES, I think yesterday. Yeah, I think I marked up ES. Yeah, but I did I did take it and it ended up winning. I think getting more into now that I've become more consistent in not only my setups, but my execution and my stats as well, like leaning into the probabilities a lot more and trusting those versus like necessarily like, oh, I don't feel like this is a good trade, like like leaning into the the stats a lot more. And so that's something that I'm I'm actively trying to work on now and trying to work on going forward.

SPEAKER_00

You you and me both I'm exactly the same place, and I think I attribute it to a losing streak that's been going on the past couple of weeks, but it's it's just that because I missed that double break trade as well, because we had, you know, we had some of the key level, the VWAPs coming up from underneath, so we're trading against those. Um, but really my stats are also telling me this the standard sort of VWAP bounce plays are not really playing out, so so it should take the break trade and not the bounce plays, but but I I still hesitated, and then you're you're not you're not getting in when you should, right? So I've I've been trying to, you know, I don't even wait for candle closes at some point at this point, right? Where I'm just gonna take the break and then I'll see the probabilities play out, right? Yeah, that's that's kind of how I've been working with it. Um, and then you're gonna lose some and you're gonna win some. And then you have to you build the stats as well, right?

SPEAKER_01

Right, 100%. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's true uh like finding that balance between discretion and like probabilities, because those two don't necessarily agree with each other all the time. And so yeah, it's like leaning into which one are you more comfortable with? Are you more comfortable taking a stats-based loss, or are you more comfortable missing a discretion-based win? Like which which is gonna be true.

SPEAKER_00

I would say for me, it's also I'm I'm trying to push myself into take these trades because I want I I don't want to be looking back at a chart from the day and say I had to be in this trade simply to to gather the the statistics for my performance, right? I missed a trade, so I missed some statistics. Um and that's that that's how I'm trying to work with it. Um, so you you mentioned you were on ES, but but you actually trade both ES and NQ?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, I primarily trade both ES and NQ. For how I'm trading now, um, I find myself taking a lot more trades on ES because with the rages that we've had the last couple weeks, like NQ is way too big for my softbox.

SPEAKER_00

Messive.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so yeah ES has been what I've been trading um for the most part, but I do I do like to trade both. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, me too. I I I've actually decided now because I have a buddy on stream who's trading ES strictly, or 95% of the time. So I've been I'm trying to pivot over to NQ more more permanently so we get a little bit of diversity, we can then compare across and so on. But NQ is a bit more like wiki and it moves faster, yeah, even if they're correlated, right? Right, yeah, 100%. Yeah. So, Jordan, I want to really also hear about your future plans. Like, where is um Jordan's trading going from here? What do you see yourself doing? Uh, if you can keep keep improving on your trading, keep uh gaining consistency and so on. Where do you see yourselves also with all the other stuff that you have going on in your life?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so I mean like my ultimate goal with trading is that is to be like you know one of my main sources of income. I don't think it's you know necessarily a great thing for your trading for it to be the only source of your income. But I would definitely like for it to, you know, uh uh be a main source of income for me. One, because it's something that you know I enjoy, but also I think it's something that can be done for a very long time. Like as long as you are like mentally sharp and healthy, like you can do this in your 70s, 80s, especially if you enjoy it. Like, I don't want to be, I don't think I want to be coaching in 20 years or something like that. Like, so I think trading is definitely a long-term thing for me because I enjoy it. I would like to obviously like this, you know, just start taking one get my first payout and then start taking consistent payouts, scale up my account, fund a personal account more so for swing trading because that I found that that's something that I really enjoy. Um, I find it less stressful. Kind of you don't have to be watching the charts as closely. And you know, overall, like in the pay-up that I've done, I've found some success at it. So that's something that I would like to add to my arsenal um and use kind of like the prop firms to help fund that and bring in additional income and stuff like that. So, you know, that that's that's kind of my goal. Um maybe one day I'd love to be you know speaking at a bootcamp event or something like that. I think that would that would be a lot of fun because I do enjoy teaching as well. Like I've been a coach for 12 years and teaching and is something that I've always enjoyed as well. So maybe sometime down the road as I become more consistent and successful in training, you know, transitioning to some sort of educational coaching type role as well. Because I really do enjoy helping people, especially like the mental and psychological aspects of it all as well. I think that's um something where I um kind of a lot of people with.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's so rewarding, right? When you get I I'm I'm starting, I've been doing the the social media stuff now for about half a year. People are starting to to DM me about what what they've taken and advice or whatever it is, like they did what I did, or they they they did what I didn't do or something like that, right? But they took it from me and they learned something from it. It's so rewarding, right?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. I'm not I'm not at that point yet, but I'm starting to have people like as I posted on a research meeting more asking about it, like being more curious, not like what am I doing? Like somebody said to me, like, I see you post these like these trade things, I have no clue what any of it is, but it like seems cool. And so like it's a it's a cool conversation to start, but yeah, like you said, the more consistent you get with it, you know, the more you have people reaching out who kind of want that that help or that support because trading is kind of a lonely in Denver oftentimes.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it is, it is by yourself. 100%. So once you're in your 70s or your 80s, and one of one of the good things about trading as well is it's once you have that system, once you have consistency, it is only that one max two hours a day, right? It's a super flexible way of of of making money, right? Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_01

I like I love trading, but I want to get off the the desk as soon as possible. Yeah, every single day. Exactly. It's 8 a.m. already. Yeah, I know. Like like guys like Randy or Austin, like they I see them take trades later or like in Asia or later in the day, and like I get off the charts and like I don't look at the charts until I come back and do my journaling later. Like yeah, occasionally I'll like watch Asia for a little bit and take a trade, but like you know, I don't I don't want to be sitting in front of the the charts all day, like well, especially when I have other things to do, but like I just don't want to be a slave to my computer all day.

SPEAKER_00

You're also just gonna get induced, right? You sit there stare at the charts, you're gonna induce to taking bad setups. Yeah, you mentioned swing trading. I'm really curious about swing trading and do it a little bit myself as well. Um, is that individual stocks? So do you trade commodities?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, what's your point? Yes, I mostly trade swing trade options on individual stocks. Okay. So yeah, so that's where I've really found um found the edge because I I don't want to buying and selling like individual like stocks like that. You need a lot more capital for that, especially if you're like buying some of these stocks that are like you know, a couple hundred dollars with options. You can you know get a couple of option contracts for a few hundred dollars and control you know uh hundreds of shares, get that exponential growth if it goes through profit term. So I really found um some success, some trading options. So that's really where I I find the enjoyment.

SPEAKER_00

And what are the what type of options are you trading? Is that three month expiry monthly?

SPEAKER_01

Is it what longer term or generally I will look to buy one bit two months out, roughly? So it's not like long long term. Um, you know, so typically I'm not looking for huge moves, and if I get it great, then those contracts will explode. Um, but typically I'm just buying one to two months out or find the the sweet spot for how I link to how I trade options.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, has any of that been paying off lately?

SPEAKER_01

Um yeah, I actually start implementing some of the stuff that Brian Shannon talked about at Bootcamp regarding like some of the VWAPs and like anchoring all-time high VWAPs and stuff like that. And so some stuff that I've been playing with a little bit here and there. I'm trying not to overextend myself with you know day up day trading options, day trading futures, and that's we trading stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00

You're gonna be at your screen all day, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So I'm very, I'm very like picky about it and stuff like that. So um, but yeah, I've definitely found some success in the strategy too. But um kind of just getting started with that, but it's yeah, it's really enjoyable.

SPEAKER_00

But 100% like these few high quality bets are much better than you know taking a swing trade a day or something like that. I I've also been burnt doing that. I just had this idea, you know. Um I actually bought uh Nasdaq just ETF, you know, um it's it's it's a euro denominated one, but it's just an ETF on Nasdaq 100. I bought it on March 31st at the actual bottom, and then I kind of DCA'd, I averaged up into the position, so I ended up, I mean, I ended up making 30% on in in just over a month.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

If I had done that with just one micro on my own capital or with an options contract or something, I I could have made much more money during that. So I'm also learning, right? I'm really happy we got to talk swing trading as well because I'm I've got a few positions on, and that's it's always fun. Uh it's a lot less uh stressful, a lot less emotional than than the um than the day trading, but it's it's just a fun way to also make uh make a bit of extra money. Um I always kind of end on on a note where with everything you've been through and the way you've been transitioning into trading, learning about trading, is there anything you would say to people in our situation struggling to get their payouts, struggling to gain consistency and so on? Anything from from your catalogue, your backstory that you would share with people to sort of uh keep them engaged?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think that the uh thing that has been most helpful for me and what I think is actually a great advantage of trading is that there are so many ways to be successful at this. You just have to find what works for you. Like 2025 was very frustrating for me. Like I understood the concepts of trading, I understood like risk management and stuff like that, but the way that I was doing it, like I just couldn't find like something that worked for me or felt comfortable. It was very stressful. I didn't look forward to going to the desk every single day. I was like confident that I was going to win or make money or be able to do it consistently. As and this I think just comes from time and experience and practice more than anything, as I have found you know, a strategy that worked that I feel comfortable with with VWAP. I found a sizing that strategy that I feel comfortable comfortable with in terms of what I'm comfortable losing during during a specific trade, how many trades per day that I take. Like trading has become so much more stress-free now when I lose. Like it used to be like when I lost, I would think about it all day. I'd be thinking about the next day, I'd be so pissed, so frustrated. Now I put on a trade this morning that I wasn't, you know, I had I wasn't gonna take it, but it it fit enough in my career criteria that I did. I bought and I walked away. I went, had breakfast, and came back like 20 minutes later. It had won. I could have cared less that if it won or not, because like I knew if I lost, I was gonna be comfortable with what I had lost. I knew that it was set up a fit enough criteria for me that I was comfortable taking it. Um and I think it's just finding what works for you and what is comfortable and what is the least stressful because finances are stressful enough, trading can be stressful enough, but making it as stress-free as possible for yourself and it's easy to understand and as comfortable to be able to do it consistently as you can is going to be, I think, what helps the most people because it ultimately if you're like you I don't think you can trade stressed. Like I just don't think it works. Like there's too much going on, too much emotion involved. Um, so the less stressful you can make it, the more comfortable you can be with the process the power.

SPEAKER_00

And that's also, I mean, it's about getting the reps in, right? Because at the stage where you are you and I are now, we've done it enough times that you cannot hook your identity up on one trade, right? And it's it's you can't it it's it's actually not about that one trade, it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_00

That one single trade is irrelevant to your whole to your progress, right? But it's detaching from that, that's the hard part. And and and I think you've gotten to that point. Super great advice to to to help people to get um get past that point of wanting the trade to win. Um, excellent. Well, let's uh let's put a pin in it there, uh Jordan. I think it's been a great conversation. I really want to thank you uh for coming on and taking the time. I know you have a busy schedule. We've been going through that. Um, so really really happy that you came on.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, thanks. I really appreciate it. I'd love to do the podcast and stuff like that. And being able to talk trading with somebody else is like again, it's such a lonely thing sometimes. So being able to have these conversations, I think is is awesome. And hopefully, you know, hopefully people can find some value in it.

SPEAKER_00

I'm sure they can. And let's do let's do a part two at some point when uh when we have more consistency and more chaos.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_00

And thanks everyone for listening. Uh, we're gonna wrap it up here. That's season one Finale. Applause, and then I'm gonna come back uh with new guests after the summer holidays. Thank you, Jordan. Thank you, everybody.