Beyond Expectations: Parenting Autism

Speech Therapy for Autism: How Children Learn to Communicate with Suzy Hites | Beyond Expectations Podcast Ep. 6

• Michelle Chabolla • Episode 6

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In Episode 6 of Beyond Expectations: Parenting Autism, Michelle Chabolla and Sean Dobson sit down with Suzy Hites, a licensed Speech-Language Pathologist (SLP), to explore how speech therapy for autism helps children and adults develop communication skills.

Suzy shares her professional experience working with individuals who face speech, language, and social communication challenges, and explains how therapy can support everything from early language development to meaningful everyday interactions.

Together, they discuss the importance of communication in daily life, the different types of speech and language difficulties individuals may experience, and how personalized speech therapy can build confidence, independence, and connection. Suzy also highlights how this support extends beyond the individual to impact the entire family.

This episode offers valuable insight for parents seeking guidance on speech therapy, communication delays, and how to help their child find and use their voice.

This episode is proudly supported by Gregory’s Special Creations. If you are looking for thoughtful and unique gifts while supporting Greg's growing small business, visit: http://www.gregorysgifts.com

SPEAKER_00

Welcome to the podcast Beyond Expectations, Parenting Autism. Follow Michelle Chabola's journey of raising a child with autism, the challenges, victories, and rewards. If you're a parent, caregiver, or simply someone seeking to understand autism on a personal level, you're in the right place.

SPEAKER_03

All right, here we are, beyond expectations, and we have a special guest today, Susie Heights. Currently works as a speech language pathologist. So, Susie, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you so much, Michelle. It's a pleasure being here.

SPEAKER_04

Welcome, welcome.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you.

SPEAKER_04

I know my first question. What the heck is a speech language pathologist? It doesn't seem like a CSI unit.

SPEAKER_01

Very good question to start with. And I have to say that speech language pathologist is also synonymous with speech therapist. I go by speech teacher. Um, I go by Miss Susie. I really go, I go by a lot of different titles. But basically, a speech language pathologist is a professional who is educated and skilled with working with individuals who have deficits in communicative disorders. So communication involves quite a few areas. So a speech language pathologist is trained to work with individuals who struggle with expressive language. So speaking in clear sentences, using correct grammar, um, getting their wants and needs met, also deficits in receptive language or comprehending spoken language. Um, we can also work with individuals who struggle to learn how to make particular speech sounds. We call that articulation. So it, and that's a lot of times what people think that speech therapists do is we work with the S and we work with the L sounds and the R. That's a biggie. I do have a lot of students working on R. Um, but it's so much more than that. We can work with individuals who are disfluent and we teach them advocacy and confidence in their speech and communication abilities. We can also work um with individuals with a lot of different diagnoses, such as autism, ADHD, um sensory difficulties, um, individuals who are struggling with behavior regulation, um, and social communication deficits. Actually, that's my jam, that's my passion.

SPEAKER_04

I love um tell me about that, the specialty for social, what'd you call it? Social communication deficits?

SPEAKER_01

Yes. So we also call it pragmatic language. So it's basically what people do all the time. Um uh social reciprocity. So having a conversation. I teach my students that a conversation is like a ping-pong game. So the ball always has to go back and forth. And there's a 20-second rule. If you're speaking longer than 20 seconds, and sometimes my students on the spectrum will do the um if you're speaking longer than 20 seconds, you're being a conversation hog, and you got to pass the ball to your conversation partner.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, interesting. We're gonna clock you.

SPEAKER_03

I met Susan for dinner. I'm like, oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_04

I actually do our diagnosis to us.

SPEAKER_01

I actually have this button, it's called the blah blah button.

SPEAKER_02

Yep.

SPEAKER_01

And if I once I've been working with a student for a while, and these are my older students, typically um diagnosed with autism level one. So you if if they're talking over 20 seconds, I'll hit that blah blah button and it goes blah blah blah blah blah blah. So it's a fun, it's a fun way to increase awareness and work on that skill.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, that's fascinating. Yeah, excellent. So, so part of our discussions here are always um like the inspiration for Michelle to put together this podcast is uh to help parents, right? So people get this diagnosis, and when Michelle got the diagnosis, none of us knew what it meant. We didn't know what to expect, we didn't know what kind of capabilities to expect over time, and there was a lot of fear and panic. And then, of course, Michelle was Michelle kind of dug in and has had an amazing outcome with Gregory. So, so maybe maybe start there with like a parent with autism, or a parent, a parent with child autism, like in terms of communication speech, what are those building blocks? And and or or is it even a fair question? Is it such a broad set of circumstances for each child that you have to kind of go back into where to begin?

SPEAKER_01

Well, of course, um every child is different. Um, every child, and every child diagnosed with autism is different and have different needs. Um, I always tell my parents that you are the expert of your child. Um, and I really rely on their reports and what they're hearing at home and what they're seeing at home. Um and of course, you want uh data and information from a variety of different environments. Um if if you suspect that your child has autism, um, and you know, what was I I got my speech and language license um 25 years ago. So the the diagnostic criteria has changed in 25 years um for autism, but it's still we're still sorry, I can tell I bumped out a second. Um there's still going to be that social communication deficit in that social reciprocity. Is my child looking at me when I'm speaking with them? Are they trying to communicate to me when I'm speaking with them? Is their eye gaze? Um, is there are they tuned into my facial expressions? That's a big one. Because oftentimes individuals on um with autism will have difficulty reading those nonverbal um language um signals that we give off all the time. So much of our language is nonverbal. Um, and just their ability to make relationships with other kids when you when you bring your child to play group or to the park, do they gravitate towards other children or or are they um playing in a more solitary way? So these are all um all kind of tips and clues that yes, to to look out and to watch for wow.

SPEAKER_04

And so when it comes to speech, Michelle, I remember you you talked to we talked about Gregory's speech. So Gregory spoke really late for a child, right?

SPEAKER_03

Really late, yes. I told Susie she's she knows about craniocycral therapy and loves it, and we talked a lot about it, but yes, he was, and that's what we were just talking about. He was really far behind. We take language for uh for granted, we really do from the time they dad, dad, mama, and he never did that. So, and those are all building blocks, and those are also building blocks on how to say certain words and and speak, and yeah, he was really, really far behind. He really was.

SPEAKER_04

So, at what age do kids normally start working with you, Susie?

SPEAKER_01

Well, to be honest, um infants can start working with the speech language pathologist if there are difficulties with swallowing, feeding, um, if there are difficulties with hearing, um tip uh newborns are screened uh for hearing at birth. I'm nearly positive that is the case in Texas. I should look that up though, just to make sure. Um they should be, they should be. Um but um I mean I would say that typically when the parent is starting to realize, hmm, my child doesn't have any spoken language, kids typically start developing single words at the age of one. Like Michelle said, they're going to start babbling. Um, you know, six months, you should hear a lot of that da-da, ma, the growth, the gross motor um babble sounds. And then, but by the age of one, I mean, there is a range for sure. Um, but by that time, you should be hearing some um approximations and some words, maybe da-da, or maybe uh wah wa or more. Um, and then by the age of two, we want to see them putting two words together. So, um, and I know, I know because I've heard it so many times. Oh, he's just a late talker. Oh, his big sister, his big sister talks for him all the time. So he doesn't have to talk. Um, and uh it sometimes, like I said, there's a range, um, and kids are a little bit later developed to speak. Maybe there are two languages being spoken in a home, which thank goodness, back when I was in graduate school, I mean, there was kind of like a hmm, maybe we shouldn't learn that second language if a child is struggling to develop a first language, but now we know um that that second language um should be taught um in the home. And it's so important if you want your children.

SPEAKER_04

You do you do go ahead and expose them to both languages right away. You don't, I thought you guys, I thought you'd say it differently. Like you say, focus on the one and then pick up the other one separately. No, you go.

SPEAKER_01

No, that was like I said, that was being uh taught to parents to take away a language a couple decades ago, but but no longer. Um but if if you feel if you feel um that your child is late in developing to speak, start with your pediatrician, um, and then reach out. You can reach out to your school district um when your child is a preschool age, and you can, if you contact um the special education department, you can reach out and get a free speech and language evaluation um through the public schools. And you could, if your child qualifies, um they can receive speech therapy through the schools. And even if they don't qualify, if you feel that your child needs services, you can also reach out to a private speech language pathologist and go that route.

SPEAKER_04

So so I kind of I think I understand what's going on, but maybe talk about like what is treatment? What are services? What is a what is this session look like? And then maybe like how much of the work is done with a therapist and how much of the work is done sort of as homework.

SPEAKER_01

Sure. Yep. I saw luckily I can tell when I bump out.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, welcome to where too.

SPEAKER_01

So um every child who receives services needs uh a diagnostic evaluation. Um, so an evaluation will include, depending on the concerns of the parent or whoever is um recommending this evaluation. Um, it could include a full language evaluation, it could include articulation and phonology, just the sounds, um, but it definitely should include standardized testing as well as more functional or informal testing, getting a language sample when the child is playing or when the child is doing something a little bit more spontaneous. That's a really important part of the evaluation, as well as checklists completed by the parents, completed by the teacher, um, whoever is most familiar with the child's language abilities. So once all of those, once the testing is completed, uh the speech language pathologist will write up a report uh with conclusions and recommendations. So frequently that the evaluation will lead to a diagnosis, whether it be an expressive language delay or whether it be an articulation delay. Um, the the schools can diagnose autism. Um, that's important to know. And autism can also be diagnosed uh privately by a psychologist. Um, but if you go through the schools, it's a little bit more um academically based, educationally based, um, which is good for the child because um the child will be in school.

SPEAKER_04

Okay, so what sets them up for the services that they that they need.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly.

SPEAKER_04

But I guess so, so I'm a super linear thinker. When I think about speech training, is it literally like physical speech training? Like stick your tongue out, don't stick your tongue out. That is it that fundamental?

SPEAKER_01

Yes, absolutely. Um, so if if you get through the diagnostic process and the speech language pathologist is recommending treatment, um, if a child is struggling with um articulation, part of the evaluation is also a thorough oral motor examination, which looks at all of the structures as well as the functioning of the speech mechanism. Um, so we do, and and that's what we're trained to do. We're trained to know exactly the whole mechanical side of this thing. Yes, that's that's I love I love being a speech therapist.

SPEAKER_04

I just I it involves Is it like teaching someone to sing where you have to like because I know I I sat with my daughter when she took seeing lessons and they worked on, you know, sing from here and not from here and not from your nose. Is it that kind of thing?

SPEAKER_01

Sure, uh yes, I work on diaphragmatic breathing with some of my students. Um yes, and especially with my students um with autism, we work a lot on what's called prosody, which is that melodious rise and fall when we're speaking, when we're excited, when we're asking a question.

SPEAKER_04

I know that like the Big Bang Theory has kind of made a an autistic character a mainstream thing, right? Kind of like we talked about a long time ago. Rain Man was kind of, I think, the first time that a person with autism was like a main character in a movie or something.

SPEAKER_02

Yes.

SPEAKER_04

So now in the Big Bang theory, they always have Jim Parsons' character, just blah blah very monotone, very monotone, right? And is that is that is that a trait of someone with autism? And then what how do you but can it be fixed to where they're yes?

SPEAKER_01

I I have a couple of students working on that right now, so I call them voice hills. So I say, okay, right now your speech is sounding like a robot. We're gonna work on voice hills, and I always give visuals. Um whenever you're teaching a skill, as as much as you can make it visual is going to be so helpful for any child. I try to include visual, um, auditory, and tactile when I'm working with a child, trying to let them touch something or you know, touch their own mouths, feel um vibrations, things like that. Um, it's funny you should mention the Big Bang Theory because I, Sheldon, does this friendship algorithm and I actually use that with my high school kids with autism, and we talked about this this friendship algorithm and how it's it's you you can um I mean it's very linear linear and structured, and this is how you have a conversation and this is how you make friends. Um, and they love it when I play little clips like that. It makes it fun, yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Right. Oh, that's that's fantastic.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

So how how long can a child focus? So if you're working, if you're working with like an eight-year-old or a 10-year-old, is a session an hour, hour and a half, or is that too much?

SPEAKER_01

Um, I typically work in 30-minute increments, um, especially with my I have preschool and lower elementary school kids. Um, that's typically plenty of time to get to get my lesson in. Um but with my old with my older students, um, or if maybe I'm working in a large group, um, we can work for a longer amount of time, 45 minutes and an hour.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, I just assumed this was a one-on-one thing. Can you do this as part of a group?

SPEAKER_01

Sure. Um, so I am so fortunate because I have my own practice. Um, I typically do work one-on-one, unless um I do really like pairing up my students with autism because that's exactly what they need. They need to work on the reciprocity of communication and communicating with each other. And then we can work on those nonverbals. Oh, I see by the look on his face that he might not be interested in this. Can you see that? Um, and then it's it's so much better than just me being the teacher all the time.

SPEAKER_04

Right.

SPEAKER_01

We all learn from each other.

SPEAKER_04

I was gonna ask about the so how much of this is um, we talked about a lot of speech therapy is physical, and now you're training, you're training someone to change tones and things. How much of this is really mental? Like how much of this is gonna would be similar to like psychotherapy?

SPEAKER_01

Well, there's definitely a cognitive component. Um, actually, with a lot of my students with ADHD and autism, uh, they struggle with executive functioning. Um, and that's right here in the frontal lobe of the brain. And those are all of the skills that we need every day. The organization, the planning, the initiation. A lot of times my kids will do an assignment, they'll put it in their backpack, but then they can't initiate the movement of just turning it in. Um, so it just gets lost in there because it's just a jumble of bunk at the end of a week, right?

SPEAKER_04

There's a lot going on in there, right? Because they and then they they there was the speech pathologist takes a role in that, that type of behavioral. That's what I'm saying. That seems like a whole behavioral thing that has nothing to do with speech. So, how does speech connect it to that? Because you know, I I've I I've I have some experience with that the processing, right?

SPEAKER_03

Susie, the processing, right?

SPEAKER_01

And it and it all it's it's all an umbrella under communication. I mean, if you can't organize and sequence your thoughts, you can't organize and sequence language.

SPEAKER_04

Interesting. So that's what it does become so it's a so it's wow. I I guess I can see why it's fascinating because it's everything from a physical process to uh to a muscular training process or an education process, and then it becomes this problem-solving thing. And what does that really mean when they're making all these grimaces and faces? And then you're saying it actually is like a like a psychological process where it's like, okay, I guess you're telling people to slow down or write things down or whatever comes into that executive function space. It seems like it seems like speech pathology doesn't do it service.

SPEAKER_03

Right. That's what I thought. Very underrated profession.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I I think you're right.

SPEAKER_04

And these are life skills, these are time and management skills, these are right, organization skills.

SPEAKER_01

And it it truly is incredible how much growth I've seen in this field since 2000 when I got my my degree and my license. Because back then it the focus, I'd say, really was on articulation. Um, and I mean that was that was a lot of um the students on our case.

SPEAKER_04

Well, where would it where would like an occupational therapist overlap with this? Because as I understand, I don't know much about that either, but I thought an occupational therapist would be more like the ones that teach you how to manage time and anticipate and plan and execute.

SPEAKER_01

I love working with OTs. So um, yes, you are right. Um, occupational therapists will work on um the fine motor, the writing, the gross motor, all of those large body movements, um, even just posture, being able to sit in a chair and get your schoolwork done. Um, and they'll also work on a lot of the sensory integration issues, the hyper, the hyposensitivity. Um, and they do work on executive functioning as well. So oftentimes um speech and OT can work hand in hand. I know there are a lot of practices around that actually have both speech and OT at the same facility just because a student might need help from both, or even speech and OT can co-treat together. I've seen that uh in the public schools as well.

SPEAKER_04

I wonder if I'm the only person that doesn't understand this basket of services based on hot stories.

SPEAKER_01

Unfortunately, I I think no, I think I think you might be right. Um, and I just applaud the two of you for getting this podcast out because I want parents to know what is available to them and I want them to know about IDEA and how they they have rights and how they are the best advocate for their child. Um, and that, yeah, sometimes you are going to have to be pushy and you're gonna have to be the The squeaky wheel. But especially, and I know this was so meaningful for Gregory, and especially to get your child into the least restrictive environment, which is your right as a family. And what that means is if your child is identified as a student with a disability in the public school system, and they get an IEP, an individualized education plan, do you have your child has the right to least restrictive environment? So, in as part of their school day, you can decide as a team what environment is best for your child. Do you want your child to be in a classroom with individuals with needs that might be similar to them? Do you want them to be mainstreamed in a neurotypical classroom? And I know that Michelle uh advocated uh for the mainstreaming, which just served Gregory so well. And I have always been an advocate for mainstreaming as well. I have fought hard for many of my students for that least restrictive environment because I truly feel that these kids benefit so much from having that model, that that learning through observation behavior model, like all the models that they get from those neurotypical kids.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, that's fascinating. Starting to think there's no such thing as neurotypical.

SPEAKER_01

I think we're all kind of yeah, we are we are all neurodiverse.

SPEAKER_02

We're all kind of like we call for people thing right now.

SPEAKER_01

I'm being I love it. I love that you guys are gonna joke about that now. I know your family gatherings.

SPEAKER_04

Well, with our family, we're gonna have to have a stopwatch.

SPEAKER_03

That wall wall button. I want to do that.

SPEAKER_04

Your time is over. You have a chance, your time, your time is up. So you touched on like the parent that's advocate, and Michelle is like the world class at this. So have you have you kind of ever thought of like how you would say you take a parent? We're focusing mainly on that moment that people discover and they're trying to get themselves up to speed, but like that whole parent advocacy thing, we'll we'll do a whole show on that and bring in lawyers and talk about rights and things. But but like in your in your practice, have you had parents that kind of didn't do enough, got it right, and then did too much?

SPEAKER_01

Um I I I mean, there's parents have so many um different personalities. There's a personality type that trusts trusts the professionals to do the best for their child. And of course, you always want to trust that the professionals will do the best for their child. Um, but again, you are the expert on your child. Um, and if you feel that your child needs something, if you're if you feel that your child is not getting enough of something, maybe they qualified for one session a week, but you feel that they would benefit from so much more, you can call that IEP meeting anytime you want. And you can ask for that.

SPEAKER_03

I mean, you can't call one every week, but I but you can you can, but you're not very popular if you do.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, but but um, and and you can also ask your team to focus on your child's strengths. I think so many parents get so discouraged because they walk into a room um and it's all about the deficits, what the child can't do. So I I always feel, and I whenever I start a meeting, it's always with the child's strengths and what they can do, and just to to focus on that and then taking those strengths and working with them.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, that's good advice. That's good advice. Yeah, because it's easy, it's easy to get focused on the thing that needs work and not appreciate the things that they've accomplished, right?

SPEAKER_03

Absolutely, yeah. Well, it's yeah, it's overwhelming. You got 12 people on one side of the table, and then you're sitting there.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, when you're in this, in this when you're in the IP meeting, there are 12 other people, and I think Michelle, you talk about some schools, are sort of like, let's get to work and help this baby, and others are like take him out of here.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, we're done. Yeah, yeah. The services and they have a right to that.

SPEAKER_04

Can they say, like, this child's needs are beyond our capabilities?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, they totally aren't supposed to, but they can stop, they cannot offer you. I don't know, Susie, I guess how to word it, the exact services that you need.

SPEAKER_01

Well, it it definitely could be the case that the school that your child is at is not the best fit. However, there has to be a better fit for the child that they're they're offering. Um a school could could not say that this is not a good fit. You need to go find another placement, which I I know I've heard that um that has happened, but um, but uh a school should have options.

SPEAKER_04

So it seems so you just yeah, we definitely we've been thinking about this lawyer episode. We're definitely gonna get the lawyer episode because it does, I mean, like the tax dollars, there's been a lot of good work done from the federal government, it sounds like on the state governments and the local governments and the school districts on like building resources. And I have it it's just hard to navigate, right?

SPEAKER_01

Right. And I'm sorry, I have to I worked in the schools for six years and the public schools, and those in those speech pathologists, they work so hard for their students. Um, they are they are on top of education, they are on top of um their students' needs. There are just so many students on their caseload. Um it's and and the paperwork has just gotten astronomical. Um, so it it's just I felt I felt overwhelmed. I had a caseload of 85.

SPEAKER_03

Oh my god. See, that's the problem. It's just too, that's too many.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, it it was. And it it was just, I was trying so hard to make a difference, and I um it it just I I burnt I burnt out. Um and that's a that's a real thing. Um, so I'm very fortunate to have have taken gone the private practice route. And now I typically get to work one-on-one, which is a luxury.

SPEAKER_02

Um do you take?

SPEAKER_01

What's that?

SPEAKER_03

How many do you take? What's your caseload now?

SPEAKER_01

Uh right now, I guess I have about 27 ish. Yeah, yeah, which is a good, it's a uh it's it's a great caseload. I am in close communication with the parents. Um, I feel like I have time to create materials and get myself to organ get myself organized. And also, um, I think Sean that you had mentioned do you work in a group, do you work individually? Um, because the caseloads are so high in the school, oftentimes the groups will grow to four and five. I mean, I had I had groups of four and five kids, and sometimes the goals are different.

SPEAKER_04

Um, so you you're having that adds a whole nother dynamic to it, depending on the age of the kid, that they might be embarrassed or shut down around people because you're often with like social interaction skills as well, right?

SPEAKER_01

And and that's why early intervention is so key. Because in kindergarten and first grade, they all want to come with Miss Susie. Yes, oh yeah, why can't I come? Why can't I come with you?

SPEAKER_04

I do see this. I think she was a beauty contestant, a really pretty woman is. I think she's famous for this. She has um a lisp, and she blamed it on the school's speech pathologist because the kids affected her or what? Well, the kids that got to go outside and work on speech got got uh cheats, and the kids that stayed behind didn't, and so she's like, Well, if I have a lisp, I get to go out there and have the cheese, and then she actually developed the guy be careful with those incentives, yes, you do. Okay, we're running out of time, but I but I do want in the world of every AI is gonna put us all like we're all AI, none of this is actually real. If I had AI, it'd be thinner. Um in a world of AI and in a world of technology, are there things that what if someone can't afford a speech therapist or their school's not good at it, or they're one of 85 kids and they're not progressing? Are there kind of DIY solutions where has has technology made an imp made an impact here?

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely. Actually, I just went to the um Texas speech convention last week, um, and there was a whole seminar on um creating therapy materials using AI, um, which is something I'm a little behind the eight ball with. And I need I I'm glad I went to that session. Um, but Michelle and I were talking about this earlier. The best thing that you can do for your child is be very aware of what they can do. I always tell my parents, start with just putting a piece of paper on the refrigerator and starting to write down all of the sounds, all of the words, everything that you hear, and do that for a good week, two weeks. Because a lot of my parents will come in initially and say, Oh, they, you know, they maybe have two, three words. But when I say, please just put a piece of paper up and just start writing things down, they come back and they're like, Wow, I really hadn't realized how many sounds I'm hearing. Um, and he had he or she has more words than than I thought. So again, start there because then you can take those words and you can expand. And the best way to teach um expansion is through everyday functional routines, um, cooking dinner, bath time, getting dressed. I mean, it's take off, put on, um, stir, um, open. Um, and with my students um with autism um at the young age, a really great activity. Um, we used to call it communicative temptations, is where you take an item that they love, like a wind up toy or um something that has a lid and you you screw it on extra tight or you kind of sabotage it, like you can take the battery out, and then they they ask for the toy, which you always want them to use their language. If they if they're not using their language, you model it for them so they can imitate you. Um so once they request the toy, or even you could they can use sign. I'm a huge proponent of sign language, especially if you have a nonverbal child. I taught both of my um children sign language right off the bat um because it's such a great way to avoid that frustration. Um and then um so if you if they can't get their toy, what do they need to do? They need to ask for help. Um, and they need to come to you, which is a social um communication tool. They need to come to you, they need to point, which is joint attention, which is another goal that we have in social communication. So um take what they're very interested in and work from there. Get down on the floor, sing songs, play games, use finger plays, do nursery rhymes, um, anything that's fun, and you can use facial expressions and those voices, um, and just make learning language fun. And when you hear them say a word, you say it back and then you add another word. Um Wawa, oh, more Wawa, drink Wawa. Let me get you your sorry, you know what? I should have said water. You want okay, so you could you could model back Wawa, but you do want them to hear that the that the word they use is water, more water. I mean, sometimes I yes, jump into um, I have many cats. That's um, yes, but definitely model and engage. Um, literacy, of course, is such a great way to label and have fun together, and you're both attending to the same activity, and it's a great way to snuggle and get close, especially if you do it at bedtime when maybe the energy level is a little bit lower. Um, that's that is it, that's a great teaching moment. Every moment is a teachable moment.

SPEAKER_03

It is, it's 24 hours a day, 360 Sundays a year. Yes, Susie, this has been great. We could talk to you forever. This has been oh, you can tell.

SPEAKER_01

I I can talk a lot too.

SPEAKER_02

So much.

SPEAKER_01

I wish I should have had it right here. Usually I have it on my desk, but I'm not seeing it right now.

SPEAKER_04

That's great. Well, I learned a lot. That was super, super amazing. We appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01

You're very welcome. Thank you for having me on. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04

All right, until next time.

SPEAKER_01

That's right.