Autism in School: IEPs, Paras & Advocacy with Trudy Bauer Martinez | Beyond Expectations Podcast Ep. 8

In Episode 8 of Beyond Expectations: Parenting Autism, Michelle Chabolla and Sean Dobson sit down with Trudy Bauer Martinez, an experienced occupational therapist and Greg’s first paraprofessional during his first year of school, to explore what school support for children with autism really looks like. 

Trudy shares her unique perspective, combining her professional background in occupational therapy with her firsthand experience supporting Greg in the classroom. She explains the role of paraprofessionals, what an IEP (Individualized Education Program) is, and how support systems in schools have evolved over time. 

Together, they discuss the challenges of navigating the education system, the importance of early advocacy, and what parents need to know when their child is not being fully supported in the classroom. Trudy also shares how children with autism learn, the importance of repetition, and why focusing on life skills and independence is key. 

This episode offers practical insight and encouragement for parents navigating autism in school, helping them better understand their rights, work with educators, and advocate for the best possible outcomes for their child. 

This episode is proudly supported by Gregory’s Special Creations. If you are looking for thoughtful and unique gifts while supporting Greg's growing small business, visit: [http://www.gregorysgifts.com]( http://www.gregorysgifts.com)

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the podcast Beyond Expectations, Parenting Autism. Follow Michelle Chabot's journey of raising a child with autism, the challenges, victories, and rewards. If you're a parent, a caregiver, or simply someone seeking to understand autism on a personal level, you're in the right place.

SPEAKER_01 0:20

Okay, here we are with Beyond Expectations. And today we have a special guest, Trudy Bauer Martinez. And we have been friends forever. We're not going to say how long because it might say how old we are. But uh Trudy was a lifesaver for me. She was Gregory's first ever para that uh he had his second semester of kindergarten. So, Trudy, welcome to the show. Thank you. I'm so pleased to be here. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 0:52

Um, I would like to start um just to give you a little bit of a background uh uh on me. And I have a unique, I think I have a kind of a unique perspective for your show because I am a trained occupational therapist, but I also was a para for Gregory, like Michelle just said, uh the second semester of his first year of school, kindergarten. And um those two things kind of go hand in hand and yet they're very different. Um, I graduated with a bachelor's degree from Colorado State University in 1983 in occupational therapy. And way back then it was just a bachelor's. Uh you could get a bachelor's degree and then go out and practice. Now there's a lot more information, and it's a in order to be a practicing occupational therapist, uh, you have to have an entry-level doctorate, um, which is a little different than a PhD. But there's a lot more information that has come since I graduated, and I'm very glad that that is.

SPEAKER_04 2:06

Um so really the the increase in diagnosis of autism happened during your career.

SPEAKER_02 2:13

It did. It happened, it did, it happened. What I saw really was um probably starting in the 90s, um, the the increase in diagnosis, the increase in recognition of learning, different learning abilities, a lot more research had come out in those past 20 years. Just a big, wonderful buildup of data and research that came out. And um, but but I practiced I when I first graduated from college, I practiced for one year at a rehab clinic, and then I um really wanted to work with children, so I moved over into the school system. And excuse me, um that was just my real love. I loved working with kids with all kinds of disabilities, and at that time, so this was only 1983-84. I'm old. Experienced, experience, not old, experience. And at the time, I you know, being young, you don't understand, you you just have no clue what life is about. But uh you really don't. I still don't, but go ahead. I still don't. But now I can look back and realize how much information we've gotten in the past, just in general, information has exploded in the in the medical realm, and uh it's just amazing to me. So when I graduated in 1983, uh the special the public law 94142 had only been in existence since 1975. 89812.

SPEAKER_04 4:06

So it had only been my my job here is is to sort of sit as the audience and wonder whenever there's technical words or abbreviations. What are you talking about? So I've already got two questions for you. One of them is what the heck is a para?

unknown 4:18

Right?

SPEAKER_04 4:18

What the heck is a para? The other is like when we say occupational therapy, like if you had to write down what an occupational therapist does in kind of one tweet, what would that be? And then the third is like, what was the regulation you were just talking about?

SPEAKER_02 4:29

Okay, so an occupational therapist is a professional person that we we help all people, whether they're from birth to old age, to be able to function independently in life. Uh mostly most people usually have some kind of permanent disability, but if you can adapt things, um you can function independently in life. And that's why it's called occupation, because your occupation is to be able to get through daily life and be functionally independent.

SPEAKER_04 5:08

That means that means in your work would be examples of like the range of disabilities that you would be, you know, okay.

SPEAKER_02 5:15

So um, so as an adult, people I worked with people who had spinal cord injuries, strokes, head injuries, um even people who those are more and depending on what happens, you're gonna have more a whole full range of disability where you there's things you can and can't do. Um and with a spot, like for example, a spinal cord, a person who's been in a car accident and has had a spinal cord injury, depending on where their injury is, they can be functional, they can be totally independent in life, or they're gonna need a lot of assistance with adaptive equipment, that kind of thing. It's a full range of all kinds of of but of issues.

SPEAKER_04 6:05

But the main focus the main goal is is the important daily tasks of take care of yourself, bathe yourself, dress yourself, cook you prepare your own meals, that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_02 6:15

Exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 6:17

Okay, all of those so what is a para? Is it a parachute? Para what?

SPEAKER_01 6:21

Para parachute so a it was definitely my parachute.

SPEAKER_04 6:25

That's for sure.

SPEAKER_02 6:27

So a para in the school system is help me along, Michelle.

SPEAKER_01 6:32

Um a paraprofessional basically is the one that assets your child, right? In helping them function in the classroom.

SPEAKER_04 6:41

This is like a one-on-one thing. So a paraprofessional would cook work and they would be assigned to Gregory and 8 a.m. to 3 p.m. they're riding alongside Gregory as an assistant.

SPEAKER_01 6:53

Yes, as an assistant.

SPEAKER_04 6:55

So my executive assistant would be my para.

SPEAKER_01 6:57

That's your para. Yep, that's your para. That's a good thing. You got a couple of them, Sean.

SPEAKER_04 7:01

Exactly. Well, I have some of the things about that difficulties as my nephew. Okay, and so Trudy was Gregory's first paraprofessional.

SPEAKER_01 7:11

Yes, because if you remember, and I'll I'll just kind of highlight. Um, I don't know if I talked about it or not, but in kindergarten, his first semester, he had no assistant. Now he came from the public preschool, but they wanted to see him and see what his needs were and make sure he needed that assistant because I asked for it right away, but they wanted to make sure.

SPEAKER_04 7:35

So the first back to advocacy, you had to ask for it. It wasn't like they said, Oh, your son has his diagnosis, let me go find your parent.

SPEAKER_01 7:42

Correct. And the only way he got it was with the IEP. We talked about the individual education, but he had to have a diagnosis, but then I had to advocate for it because they didn't want to do it, and so he had this nightmare first semester, right? Trudy from August. Yeah. Then they did, I think they did semester August to December, so we lost that whole semester. And then the principal, Trudy, was a mom at the school. Her kids went to school with Gregory, the same school, and he knew her background, and so he approached her, so then Trudy can take over. So that's how it happened.

SPEAKER_02 8:16

And to back up, when this public law, okay, so the public law that started in 1975, it was a federal law. They passed the federal government passed this law in 1975, and it's the it's called the Education for All Handicapped Children Act of 1975. Now, this is 1975. And I we think about before 1975 and after 1975. Before 1975, Michelle, tell tell what you said.

SPEAKER_01 8:53

They they had these kids, they were they were not educated, they were separated out in basements of churches, they were wherever they could find a place to drop them off, the parents could drop them off and somebody would take care of them. That's where they were.

SPEAKER_02 9:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:08

So because they were basically daycare.

unknown 9:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:11

And so this law, so those parents said, wait a minute, my child can learn. May not be able to learn everything that your child can learn, but my child has the ability to learn. And we want access to the public education system. And so they had um, you know, all this hullabaloo, and that's what got this 1975 act passed. It's a law that mandated that all public schools provide a free, appropriate public education to children with disabilities. And it guaranteed access to that education and the equal opportunity. So this was a huge thing that had never been in this country until 1975.

SPEAKER_04 9:53

Um Trudy, do you know, and this might be a fair question, but are we still dealing with the 1975 legislation, or has it been amended and updated, refreshed a bunch of times the last 15 years?

SPEAKER_02 10:02

It's been amended, updated, and refreshed because what happens, and Michelle talking, they passed this law in 1975, but like most things, they have no idea what it looks like. They and they all kinds, but they left it to the local level to what it would look like. It was a beginning step, but once it was implemented across the country, every school district it was it looked different in every school district depending on the politics and the money that was available, and it was a nightmare. So it's taken 40, 75, yeah, almost 50 years for it to, you know, every year it gets and through a lot of lawsuits of people challenging things. They've tweaked it, it keeps getting better, it keeps getting it's always a thing in change. So, but it also um it required an individualized education program so that for example, Gregory, when he come, when he would come in, he should have been able to get an evaluation of what what his skills were at at the beginning of the kindergarten level. And then they would make an individualized goals for him, and it's kind of upsetting to me to hear that. Did he get an evaluation?

SPEAKER_01 11:31

He did in the fall, and then that's in the fall, and then they put him in this the kindergarten class without any kind of support.

SPEAKER_02 11:41

Yes, so there's something funky there, just don't know what it is, but that's interesting.

SPEAKER_04 11:47

We should we should make some time, Michelle, for one of the shows really get into like the legal and technicality and how you advocate for your child, yeah, the school system, because I'm sure that I'm sure that's it wasn't it was a nightmare.

SPEAKER_01 11:56

I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:58

It was so that and that was you know, things have and I can tell you, I've watched as I've uh throughout the years that uh what happens is they implement the law, parents get upset, people and and then there's lawsuits, and then they come back and they tweak the law, and then they more things happen, they learn as they go what they can and can't do, what's allowed, what parents want, what's not. You know, it's always this big tweaking. So the the next major uh tweaking was in 1990. They um added some amendments, and um that was things like that. It this was the first time autism was included in 1990.

SPEAKER_01 12:44

1990, Sean. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:46

They finally they recognized they recognized autism.

SPEAKER_04 12:50

Remind everybody how old what year was Gregory Borden?

SPEAKER_01 12:52

94.

SPEAKER_04 12:53

So see, that's why Gregory your first experience with an autistic student?

SPEAKER_02 13:02

Me? Yeah, no, no, he wasn't. But it was it was um it was the not the first time I had been out of because I had three children, so but I could see that things were evolving to to meet kids with autism and their needs different than kids with um, for example, maybe a kid that that had cerebral palsy. So, you know, with these, I mean, these children they each have their unique um needs, and so they need to be met uniquely.

SPEAKER_04 13:40

And that's where so now, Trudy, I want to take you back to to cover you. So when we start to sort of fire questions into the audience will know how qualified you are. So we we picked up so so Michelle met you in what year was that, Michelle?

SPEAKER_01 13:57

Uh 99, uh 99. He went out.

SPEAKER_04 14:01

Maybe just give us that that that overview that I interrupted on your profession and how long you worked with kids like Gregory.

SPEAKER_01 14:07

In 2000, Trudy, when we met. Yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 14:10

So um, by the time I met Gregory, I had I knew that the principal, I was living in the neighborhood, and the principal approached me. He knew I was an occupational therapist, and um he said he he asked me if I'd be interested in being a parer, and I said, absolutely. I mean, I was sitting at home, I really was bored and couldn't go back to work yet, but I so um I was I mean, it was I remember coming in and again, I have a I think I have a unique perspective because I'm an occupational therapist, but I'm also a mom. I'm also being a para. And I my kids had already been through kindergarten. So um at that school, so I knew what what Gregory Gregory was going to be, um what kind of situation he would be in. So I said absolutely. When I stepped into the classroom though, I'll be pretty honest, I think this was we're not gonna call names. I think so. This was a school, uh a neighborhood that was very um okay, help me out here, Michelle.

SPEAKER_01 15:28

Very high performing neighborhood. He wasn't very welcomed because of him being disabled, we'll put it that way. Yeah, it was more of a perfect situation, Sean.

SPEAKER_04 15:40

A perfect neighborhood, perfect families, perfect, very like high performing people, kind of a big type A community.

SPEAKER_02 15:45

Yes, and there had never uh you didn't. I had never seen some, I'm sure they were there around this some children with disabilities, but they didn't go to this somewhere else.

SPEAKER_01 15:57

Yeah, they must have done somewhere else.

SPEAKER_02 16:00

And then Michelle comes, Michelle's no, I'm gonna I want them to start here, and so um good for you.

SPEAKER_04 16:09

So, Trudy, how long did you how long did you have you been a pair?

SPEAKER_02 16:16

It wasn't very long as a pair, I just did that that one semester, but I will say I immediately could see, first of all, um, because there was no exposure in that school, they had never had any children with any kind of dis well, they had a few, but not like I can't say that. Gregory was kind of like they were a little scared of him. They were that's my view. That is my view.

SPEAKER_04 16:45

You didn't walk into a set of policies, procedures, experience, infrastructure rules.

SPEAKER_01 16:51

Well, he wasn't talking, and I don't think they'd ever had a child in their school that wasn't speaking.

SPEAKER_02 16:56

Yeah, that was it. They'd never really had somebody where Gregory was at before, so they didn't really have the ins infrastructure to deal to to uh uh meet his needs there yet. Well, but but um and it was I've told Michelle this more. I think it what's that?

SPEAKER_01 17:14

This is year 2000. This isn't the 20s we're talking about. This is year 2000. And I I know you make it sound like it might be 1965, but it wasn't. It was you know, it was 2000.

SPEAKER_02 17:28

And I can they did have a um oh what what was the like a a teacher that would individually work with kids who had some learning issues, but she was not equipped. They just had never had the need for, you know, they just never had it. So when Gregory was there, immediately I could see that he was really pretty f high functioning. He did not need me always right on him, you know. He he just didn't have his language yet, but he he really was pretty functional in that classroom at the kindergarten level. And so I kind of sat, I am because of my um my background, I did not um most paras would would do make sure he does everything. You know, they do it, they'd make sure he'd do everything right, they do it for him. I let him learn how to do things. I wouldn't just jump in and pull him away from the class, I'd let him work side by side with another kid. To me, that was the most important thing that he be integrated into the classroom with the other kids alongside them because he learns by watching the other children and what they're doing. And uh that kind of ruffled a few feathers.

SPEAKER_01 18:55

It was rough, it was rough, really.

SPEAKER_02 18:58

It was a little rough, but I'm you know, that's just how children learn by um watching what other kids do. Um do and and I would prompt him and um say, see what he's doing, can you do that kind of thing? And he caught on, he really did catch on really well. Um but it was it was a it was a challenge a little bit, not bad, it was a challenge, but um I for him it really is something you want to get out the word out is if the the services aren't there, the experience isn't there, the wants not there, the comfort's not there, the people aren't comfortable with your child.

SPEAKER_01 19:41

I say just have the right place for your child.

SPEAKER_04 19:44

Yeah, so in retrospect, so I know Michelle's personality is to like get things done. Yeah, in retrospect, Michelle, would you have just switched to a school that had more experience?

SPEAKER_01 19:54

Or I did, yeah, I did. We suffered through kindergarten, that was it. We left. We left. Would Trudy save me the let the second semester? The first semester was awful, and there were still some things that came up in second semester she had no control over, and I think that was frustrating for her as well. Um, yeah, I had to keep my mouth shut. I started looking for the the right fit for him.

SPEAKER_04 20:17

Interesting, yeah. So there's real friction around trying to help this job.

SPEAKER_01 20:21

Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 20:22

I wonder if that's still the case.

SPEAKER_01 20:26

Trudy could probably answer that, but I I would hope not. I would hope not.

SPEAKER_02 20:31

In the in the 25 years, it better not be. I don't think so. Um, things have really come along through trial and error, and um and things have gotten better. Um, but I'm no longer in that that's you know, I'm not my kids are grown, so I and I don't longer live in that neighborhood, so I don't know. But to answer your question, Sean, I really do. I see really good things since then slowly coming into play. Um, people challenging and saying, no, this is no longer the way it's gonna. Like I said, you tweak it every, you know, every year you tweak it, and it's because of parents that come in and say, or teachers that newly educated teachers that come in and say, hey, there's a better way to do this. How can we make this better? Um, it all depends on the school system, too. There's a lot of um pressure on schools now. Um, we that's a whole different podcast that that just uh you know things are always happening. But um, but I really uh I just really feel like there's there's some if you just keep on fighting for your child, as a parent, you need to understand your rights. As a parent, and your responsibilities as a parent because you are your child's best advocate. And um you need to understand where your child's at, what they can and can't do, what their goals are. Work with the all these people, all these educators, are really wanting to work with you. That's why they've dedicated their professional life to this. Um but you've got to work with them instead of fighting, and everybody's got to quit fighting. We would all, if we could all quit fighting in this whole country and just work together. Um it is not an easy, easy thing to balance between the needs of the school, the needs of the other children, the needs of your children.

SPEAKER_04 22:56

What I hear, Trudy, is something that just sounds completely unscalable.

unknown 23:00

Right.

SPEAKER_04 23:01

What we say in a business context is that it seems highly customized, you know, current to one to each child, and it requires um, you know, a skilled professional or a skilled person, one-on-one. I mean it's very expensive, right? Yes. And I mean, think about in I think in Texas schools, it's not unusual to have 25 or 30 kids per teacher. So here we're talking about one to one.

SPEAKER_02 23:26

Right. That's that's it. That's right there. That is exactly you, bingo, you've said it. But I I say in my children are not scalable. Children with special needs. Certain children are, but even when you look at a classroom of 25 to 30 kids, that's a lot of kids. And unfortunately, it's not the best environment just for typical kids, too. But um, it is definitely any child with special needs needs a one-on-one para until they don't need a one-on-one para, until they can function at the same time.

SPEAKER_04 24:00

Well, this para function, would it be that you would expect if you if Michelle if if you found that right school that was attentive and and you can gell with and they had the resource, they had the experience, would you expect to get the same para for several years?

SPEAKER_01 24:15

Well, I I really, really wanted that in Gregory just because of the change every year. Not that I wanted him spoiled with one person, but it was hard enough going to a new classroom, new teacher, new grade, and a new para every year. And we did do that. We had several pairs. Elementary was really hard. We had a lot of different paras. But when we got very lucky in um middle school with Sylvia's program, that she had the same paras each year, and then in high school, I got extremely lucky and had the same one all the way through, which you know a lot of people, oh well, he needs change, he needs change. High school is a big enough change as it is, and then you you add another adult in there that's gotta learn you, and and it's it's a real learning curve when you're working with somebody with a disability. It really is. You you really got to know that person, and every year he'd walk right into sophomore year, walked right into junior year. He knew the constant was Doris because he's gonna have all new teachers, he's gonna have all new classes, he's gonna have all new classrooms, he's gonna have a whole new schedule. That's enough, right? So, yes, if you can, it's ideal. I don't know how realistic that is. I don't know. I'm I'm pretty sure I was lucky, don't you think I was, Trudy? I mean, I was you're very lucky. Yeah, it was very lucky to have her all four years because she knew him. Oh my gosh, it was just no transition.

SPEAKER_04 25:44

So, Trudy, did you have were you the parent for other students, or did you treat other students as uh occupational therapists that were autistic students?

SPEAKER_02 25:51

Uh, not at that point, no, because then I I had another child. So went to China and got a little girl. Wow, she was shopping to China.

SPEAKER_04 26:03

Wow, that's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 26:05

I would but I do want to say for the parents that are going to be listening to this podcast, the number one constant for Gregory was his mother. That is really you the constant. You are your child's best advocate. You are the one constant for them. And if you can work with all the professionals that are in the speech therapist, the the occupational therapist, the special ed teacher, the regular ed teacher, communicate with them in a positive mode and say, this is you know, this is being you get uh you get more with honey than you do with vinegar. So I have had some parents come in and really are scary and it just scares everybody. Um, when you're threatening a lawsuit and it just does not behoove your child, um you just have to keep at it. And because those people really do care about your child, but um it's just and have faith that your child is gonna do things, they may not do them at the same level other kids do. Look at Gregory. This is it, just is had I known in kindergarten what he would be looking like now, it is amazing, it's so amazing. You do not know in kindergarten what your child's gonna be doing when he graduates from high school. That's just in general, and so have faith and keep at it. And um, I have I have a friend that has uh five kids, three of her five are on the spectrum, and one is a computer programmer who lives independently, the other two they live independently. You just don't know, and so if you get so scared that your child's not going to be able to learn algebra or geometry, like you were saying, and not everybody needs to know how to learn algebra and geometry, but everybody does need to know how to survive in this life, and that is the biggest key.

SPEAKER_04 28:21

And um that's so well said. That's so well said.

SPEAKER_01 28:27

Life skills, life skills, life skills.

SPEAKER_04 28:31

Like the last couple of minutes, I always get very kind of linear and uh structure with this. So maybe the last two minutes we just talk about, like as an occupational therapist, if you're starting out with a young child like that at that age, uh-huh. Um do you sit down and create sort of a very specific grid of your? I mean, are there tests you take, the sale like a needs assessment process? How do you sort of get started and how do you create a mission plan?

SPEAKER_02 28:56

Every child, they every three years they get a full evaluation. And so I would come in as part the speech therapist would evaluate them, I would evaluate them. Uh other people, cognitive, the psychologist would evaluate them. Yes, every three years. And then I would come up with my goals of what uh they need to work on to make them independent within the school. And that means fine motor skills, uh ready for writing, handwriting, um, even you know, being able to tie their shoes and put on their coat in school, um, those kind of things that need going to the bathroom on their own, um, those kind of things.

SPEAKER_04 29:34

So it it's you create like a curriculum, it's just like a it's like a class curriculum.

SPEAKER_02 29:39

We're working on these for an occupational therapist, they would be the uh part of the IEP goals, not necessarily curriculum. It may be some of these things that I would come in and take the child out of the classroom and work with them one-on-one for a short time period, or it would be me going into the classroom with the teacher and working together saying, Hey, this child, and I remember one child, he couldn't for the life of him, could not write. He just could not the fine motor skills were not there. So I provided I it it was like pulling teeth, but they didn't that he jump over that and just type his answers. Right, right, get something that's that's adapting because he isn't he just could not, he spent so much energy trying to to just form the letters and he couldn't do it that he couldn't even learn what he needed to learn. So those were more IEP goals more than a curriculum.

SPEAKER_04 30:40

I would work with what does that mean?

SPEAKER_02 30:43

Individualized education program goals that he'd have to that um would work on, that Gregory would work on. Like, um so probably in kindergarten, Gregory would start tracing letters. Um, if he wasn't already doing it with his wonderful mom at her classroom at home. She's probably already taught him that. You know, I'd provide the equipment for the the teacher and have him be able to do that within the classroom when other kids were doing that kind of stuff too. They were practicing their fine motor skills, Gregory would practice his. Um his would be a little different than the other kids, maybe, maybe not. Uh just depended, because depended on where he was at and where they were at. What he specifically needed to work on at his level, meet him where he was at, and then um not where you wish he was at, but where he was at, and um, and work on those so that he could then do the next step. Once he gave finished that goal, then he could do the next step. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_04 31:48

Yeah, it makes perfect sense. So I think I have one last question. So I think about I looked at some of your notes and I think about the like the word patience comes up a lot, right?

SPEAKER_03 31:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:59

Stay through it, whatever. How do you like how do you actually do that? Like, what did you do as a professional? Uh to like because it's it must be very frustrating, right?

SPEAKER_02 32:09

Well, this is what I yes, it is very frustrating, especially for somebody like us who we are all three very goal-oriented. You know, you you I'm a hard worker, I get something done, I focus on it, and I get it done. Um, what I would suggest to my parents is that would be part of their repetition, just that's how you learn. These kids learn. Keep doing the repeating it, repeating it. Um when it becomes a habit. Go home and spend 30 minutes practicing your uh writing your tracing your letters or whatever fine mode or skill that you're working on. Um it's a slow kind of thing. Um, but before you know it, all of a sudden, wow, actually, there is some some goal here. I'm used to doing it once and I get it done and it and I achieve it, but they might have to do it 10 times, but they will get it done and they achieve it and then they go on to the next one. That's where you have to have you have to change your ex realize what your expectations are and adapt those for your child to meet them at where they are and what they what they can work on and focus on. Does that make sense? It's hard. It's hard, but it's really the best thing is repetition. You can't these children the more they do it, the better they get at it, whatever they're doing. And so, um, for example, Michelle said she would always have the the words like the word door over a door. Well, every time you'd walk through a door, you'd say, Gregory, what's that word? And then he'd make that association, right? Is that what so that's how they it might take him 10 times instead of one, but it's he's going to do it after 10 times. Sometimes it may take me 20 times to do something.

SPEAKER_01 34:16

And then just the way they learn, you know, he never read phonetically, Trudy, never, because it just didn't make sense to him. But he'd seen the word door, so when he saw door in a book, he would remember that that was door. He didn't read door, he remembered, remembered it.

SPEAKER_02 34:32

Remember, and that's where you you're meeting him at his unique learning uh uh level skills. It it's it may be different than your standard kid, but he did it, and he knowing his individualized education uniqueness, um, is just uh it is amazing to me that and he's had such a good a good mother. I mean, he really had every parent, you need to advocate for your child to the best of their ability and just have faith in them and um and breathe, patience and breathe. Lots of breaths, lots of breaths, and breathe.

SPEAKER_04 35:25

That is so helpful. Well, truly, thank you for helping us, and thank you for helping.

SPEAKER_02 35:31

My pleasure. I hope it helps. I hope that you biggest thing remember when your child is little, you have no idea what they can accomplish. They can accomplish things. It's amazing, it's truly amazing what they can accomplish. So it's good, it's all good. Thank you so much.