Masking, Public Awareness & Sensory Overload | Beyond Expectations Podcast Ep. 11

In Episode 11 of Beyond Expectations: Parenting Autism, Michelle Chabolla and Sean Dobson explore the often misunderstood topic of masking in autism, when individuals suppress natural behaviors in public in order to fit in socially. They discuss how many autistic individuals become deeply aware of being different and work hard to hide stimming, sounds, movements, or coping behaviors in public settings.

Michelle shares Gregory’s experiences navigating concerts, NASCAR races, restaurants, doctor visits, haircuts, and other everyday situations that can create intense sensory overload. She explains how crowded spaces, loud environments, and constant stimulation can lead to exhaustion, shutdowns, and the need to decompress afterward.

Together, they also discuss public reactions, judgment from strangers, and why greater awareness and compassion matter. Michelle offers practical insight into preparing for stressful outings, building routines, and helping autistic loved ones feel safe while still enjoying life experiences.

This episode offers encouragement and perspective for parents, caregivers, educators, and anyone wanting to better understand the hidden effort many individuals with autism make every day just to participate in the world.

This episode is proudly supported by Gregory’s Special Creations. If you are looking for thoughtful and unique gifts while supporting Greg's growing small business, visit: http://www.gregorysgifts.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to the podcast Beyond Expectations, Parenting Autism. Follow Michelle Chabola's journey of raising a child with autism, the challenges, victories, and rewards. If you're a parent, caregiver, or simply someone seeking to understand autism on a personal level, you're in the right place.

SPEAKER_00 0:19

Okay, here we are, beyond expectations.

SPEAKER_02 0:23

Here we go again.

SPEAKER_00 0:25

Here we go again. I hope you're still listening.

SPEAKER_02 0:28

Me too.

SPEAKER_00 0:29

Today I really want to talk about a real mom, mom situation, parent situation that I think we all run into. And Sean, you'll learn of a few things. You've probably seen some of it, but um I don't know if you know what masking autism is, but it's just exactly the word. It's that when Gregory goes out in public, he knows he can't run back and forth, he can't flap his hands, he can't make his noises. So while he's in a restaurant at an event, he's holding all of that in.

SPEAKER_02 1:05

Wow. So he's aware that those physical activities are different than other people don't do it.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

Right. He's aware in the beginning, but I think sometimes he gets very excited.

SPEAKER_02 1:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:18

Like at the concert, I mean, we went to a concert and the band was just amazing. And so he got really, really excited about it. So he was he was making some uh gestures and some noises, which are fine. You're at a concert. But and then I think at the end of the night, sometimes on the way home, if it's just he and I, I let him get it all out. But if there's a car full of people, I'll say Gregory, because he'll be reciting.

SPEAKER_02 1:40

That's these urges to behave differently, but he's aware that he needs to control it. And so and so masking, you're saying, is like a like a term that right, right, covering it up.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

He's covering it up is that kind of holding yourself in because he doesn't want to appear to be do all people do that to a certain extent?

SPEAKER_02 1:58

Well, I think so, but differently in a it's in a setting or a social setting than at home, right?

SPEAKER_00 2:04

You gotta go to work and you gotta be all whoo, and your life may be falling apart, and you just may how are you? You know, and you really don't want to see anybody, talk to anybody, and you get into your office room and just like, oh, I'm so done.

SPEAKER_02 2:19

So everyone has that to a certain extent, but everybody has it.

SPEAKER_00 2:22

And with Gregory, what I do, and that's what I was telling you about, those massages are a mainly amazing. And he just went Thursday before this incredibly busy, busy weekend we had, and his therapist was telling me that he does more Astin patterning on Gregory than he actually does the cranio. He does a cranio. So, what that is, is it's a release of all that. It's actually a muscle massage, or is it like a head massage? It's a very, very soft uh well. Let's see if I can find the description. The massage is a specialized form, so it's not compressive and utilized as a three-dimensional touch, which helps release the functional performing of the muscles. So we all, I mean, we all need it, right?

SPEAKER_02 3:10

But um But this is different than the than the sacrocranial thing, I can remember.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

Right, and he he gets that as well, he gets both. He gets it all. But I walked in there when I walked in there Thursday and I was like, Mark, I need double, double whammy, double espresso today. He's like, all right, and he knows, he knows when Greg Gregory walks in and his shoulders are in and he's humped over, so he has held all that stress protecting himself physically from the environment. And so he comes out and he's just it's amazing. Now he is physically exhausted. He looks like he's been asleep for a week when he comes out from the massage itself. From the massage.

SPEAKER_02 3:52

Now he does sleep, but he literally comes down and you just you look at him, you're like, wow, he goes, Oh, like a massage is so is such kind of a close person to person, like almost intimate process. Was it hard to talk him into this or was he open to it?

SPEAKER_00 4:06

Oh no, well, he started doing it at what five and a half.

SPEAKER_02 4:09

Oh, so for him, it's just always been maybe that's a good thing for parents, is to start this early. So because I can imagine later on introducing something like a massage to someone that's that's already nervous around people.

SPEAKER_00 4:19

You know what they recommend, and and he has done it for his grandchildren the minute they're born, like within that first week, they do a craniosacral massage. There's a lady here in Austin that does infants because birth is the most traumatic thing you can go through.

SPEAKER_03 4:34

Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_00 4:35

So it resets your whole muscle, resets your whole body, which I didn't even think about that, but think about how traumatic that is. Yeah, right, very traumatic. I suppose so, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:48

So tell me about the weekend. You said you said this weekend was particularly busy.

SPEAKER_00 4:52

He planned the whole weekend. Okay, he planned a weekend. I would have never done this to him. So Friday night, he wanted to try a new restaurant he's never gone to with Michael for his birthday, and it's one of those Brazilian steakhouses. I've never been to one, so I didn't know what was gonna happen.

SPEAKER_02 5:08

You raise the plaque and they keep bringing you meat until you until you follow.

SPEAKER_00 5:11

So they flip the card over. But there's a buffet for the salad, and there's a buffet for the kind of noisy, aren't they?

SPEAKER_02 5:18

And they're usually a lot of people talking and going.

SPEAKER_00 5:19

Yeah, that that doesn't bother him, and it's not that bad. It's the buffets are really hard for him. You walk up and it's like too many choices, usually. And overwhelming. Like, if you see something, he sees something he likes, do I get it all, or do I get part of this? And we've worked on that for many, many years, and he's gotten a lot better. Oh, interesting. But he did love the meat guys coming by. I said, You need to turn your card over.

SPEAKER_02 5:45

Exactly right.

SPEAKER_00 5:46

He goes, This is so good, but it was his idea, so that's fun. His idea for a new restaurant. So then we did that. Well, Saturday we had um Eric Church at the Moody Center, which I knew would be a sold-out event because he's amazing. So we go. And the pre-guy, the guy that opens him up, came and then nine o'clock came. No, Eric Church. 9:30, Eric Church comes on. And I'm like, well, this dude's only gonna play for what, an hour and a half? Oh no. We left the suite at 11:45.

SPEAKER_02 6:23

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_00 6:25

We got home because you know how far we have to drive after one. Oh, goodness. And I was like, Gregory, we have NASCAR tomorrow. Now you asked for these tickets, knowing we were going to NASCAR. NASCAR's, oh, that's a major event because we get pit passes, garage passes. I mean, it's so much going on. He goes, I know, I know.

SPEAKER_02 6:47

And it's so many people interacting with so many people.

SPEAKER_00 6:50

He goes, I know, I know, I'll be okay. And I said, Well, you better go in there and you better go to bed. I said, there he goes, we got to get up at nine because you got to go. You know, the crowds are it's you know how it is out there, it's awful. The parking's awful. And so he got up because he knew not to complain because he booked the whole weekend. But we get to the race, and we've always been down in the pits in the garages, and for some reason it's not as loud down there. I mean, we've had the headsets, we've had the earplugs, it's loud, they're loud cars, don't get me wrong. But up where we were, we got sweet tickets, and the vibration off the concrete and the glass, I'm telling you, it was almost twice as loud.

SPEAKER_03 7:33

Oh goodness.

SPEAKER_00 7:34

So we had the headsets, but I was just like, wow, that's even Michael that likes loud cars, there's no reason for them to be that loud. I was like, you just said that. I mean, that's how loud they were. They were loud, but it was great. He stays till the very end. I mean, you got to watch the winner's circle, the spin outs, and everything. But I will tell you, I didn't see him very much Monday.

SPEAKER_02 8:00

And then on the ride home, he's but the key was he was he went Thursday, got basically his instant, he got his tension removed from his physically removed from his body.

SPEAKER_00 8:12

Right, we probably shouldn't go back to week. Maybe also um on the way home, we had several people in the car, and he started, you know, he repeats movies. That's that's his thing.

SPEAKER_02 8:23

He's like well, I've heard it called stimming, right?

SPEAKER_00 8:26

He's stimming, but he'll he'll just start replaying a whole movie out loud, okay. And I'll and I don't think he knows he's doing it. And I said, gee, and he what I said, we're almost home. Oh, okay. So he's gotta be wound up so tight right now. That that's probably the busiest weekend he's had in the wow.

SPEAKER_02 8:47

Well, but he did it, he succeeded.

SPEAKER_00 8:49

He succeeded, he did great.

SPEAKER_02 8:51

Were there any meltdowns or any moments of what do you call it when he goes downs, just public. What'd you call it when he goes and goes outside and kind of resets? What's he get a name for that?

SPEAKER_00 9:00

Right, right. He he, you know, he would go to the restroom, but it was it wasn't completely outside, but it was kind of outside and stretch a little bit. Stretch, gotta go stretch where the food was was where he could walk to it and come back, you know, at the race. And then we wanted to go. We are dying, it's hot, and we've already done the pits and the garages, and we're up in the suite, we're like, Oh, because there's AC food. We're like, we're done, right? Oh no, he didn't get to find his driver. He sure would like to go back and try to find his driver, which is Chase Briscoe. And I said, Really? And you know how he doesn't move on, he he needs to finish it. So I said, Let's go, bud. Here we go. So we went all the way down and hit the sweep where I think where yours are at F1, all the way back around to where the pits are, you know how far you have to walk.

SPEAKER_02 9:56

Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_00 9:57

And um, and we didn't find him, but we found a lot of people that were super sweet to him, and he took pictures and stuff. And but it was a good weekend.

SPEAKER_02 10:07

Crazy. Think about how far you got it developed. So now he knows this is gonna be art for him, right? Being around all those people, being around loud noises, having to he believes he has to mask, which I want to get into further because that's me because me that that suggests that there's an awareness here that maybe we weren't thinking about. But he decides to put himself in the situation voluntarily, like more than once. It's a big deal, right? I would suspect other parents are having a problem with getting the child to want to engage, right? If it's so stressful, if it's it's it's like negative, it's a negative experience to be in a crowd and have all that stuff. And so it must be it must be it's a huge success to get him to go and expose himself to something that's gonna make him uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_00 10:48

It is huge, it's a huge sensory thing. The NASCAR races are huge. I mean, I don't even like them. We want, I know we want my Michael Jordan, he's got three teams there, and of course I'm like, there's Michael Jordan, and he goes, Who? And I'm like, oh boy, we do. You you only watch NASCARs, and you know, oh, his team is 45-11 or 25-11, whatever he said, and explained to me that where those numbers came from. And and he goes, He he owns three teams. I said, Well, you know what he did, right? No, all I know is he owns three teams.

SPEAKER_02 11:24

Michael Jordan gets a whole gets to be uh famous for only reason though, and he's by those drivers that are like my height, right?

SPEAKER_00 11:31

And then yeah, and then it's like so it was a lot of fun. Watching the public is very, very interesting. We a lot of people were in and out of the suite with it being so loud and noisy. There really wasn't a lot of oh my gosh, this is what he's doing. At the concert, there was there were some kids that were laughing at him, and he didn't know. He didn't know. I see everything, I noticed everything.

SPEAKER_02 11:54

Laughing at him how just because he was dancing.

SPEAKER_00 11:56

He was he was stemming pretty good, and he got really excited.

SPEAKER_02 12:00

You know how he does his hands and his noises, and um but were the people laughing at him like thinking it was just a uh like a older guy that was just a nerd or something, or did they know he was no?

SPEAKER_00 12:13

I think they were laughing because he was different. Yeah, like I said, he didn't know.

SPEAKER_02 12:18

Does he ever know?

SPEAKER_00 12:19

The he's never known. He's never I don't believe he's ever known that's reminding it happens a lot. Maybe he's better than me.

SPEAKER_02 12:41

I think I think they're being crappy to me when they're not. I think I got the other the other the other kind of tism here.

SPEAKER_00 12:47

Michael's great, Michael will just stare at him when they're staring at Gregory. He just stares at them and they don't know what to do. And he goes, Can I help you? And they're like, uh uh.

SPEAKER_02 12:58

He's out there, so let's talk about this masking thing. So he's out there masking, right? What you described is like he has these basically he wants to behave in a certain way, right? He wants to say movie lines out loud that are not in context, anything around them, he wants to move his hands around in a way that I don't know why he can't move his hands around however the hell he wants, right? But it maybe he wants to sing, like but he but he has these things that I guess are ticks, like other plays, other people that'd be called ticks or whatever, right? Um but he knows that he needs to stop that. Did you have to sit down and teach him that? That like we can't publicly.

SPEAKER_00 13:33

I just make him awake. Yeah, I think I'm just making him aware of it. I really don't think he knows he's doing it.

SPEAKER_02 13:40

It's just his it's just his inner thoughts are coming out as physical expressions of movement or sound, and he's just not aware that it's that it's not no longer just happening in his brain.

SPEAKER_00 13:49

Right, because I used to say, What movie's that from? And he'd say, uh uh, never mind. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 13:54

So now I go, What is the trouble you would be in if you said the stuff you were thinking and didn't know you were saying?

SPEAKER_00 14:01

Jail. Exactly, right? Wow, I'd be in jail big time.

SPEAKER_02 14:07

But I guess what's fascinating is that is that I mean to a certain extent, we all do this, right? I mean, you don't behave the same in a business dinner as you do in dinner with some guys at you know, uh, you know, at Saturday night, right? You don't you don't behave the same, you know, on a girl's night out having margaritas as you do at church, straight like about nothing, right? Well, you just don't like you modify your behavior for the setting. So we all do it, but is but is there like um because what intrigues me about a lot about Gregory, right? Is that we're you know we're all got the we have the same genes, isn't it? Right, is a lot of his behaviors I see in myself, right? I see it like like I get tired when I'm around a lot of people, right? And it's not that I'm like people, but I just feel differently. I feel like you have to be a little bit more uh intense. Like, what are you thinking? What are you saying? Are you upsetting somebody? Not you know, are you interacting with people the way that they want to be interacted with? And it creates this other layer of thought that's exhausting.

SPEAKER_00 15:08

But is that the same for it is, and then just think if you didn't know how to communicate with them, and you've got you're around all these people, think of how many situations we put him in. We're having big conversations, and he's just like, What do I say? Or, you know, he's wanting to be a part of it, but he really truly doesn't know how. So we're working on that.

SPEAKER_02 15:30

Is that I've got a lot of successful salespeople that have worked for me over the years. I don't think they're I don't think they have this dual, what I'm gonna call the dual thought process going. I think they're just themselves and they blurted out and it's all real time, and they're not sitting back going, should I say this, should I say that? What are they expecting me to say? You know what I mean? So it's like it's like almost a it's almost like a higher IQ thing of analyzing the situation that you're living in instead of just living in it.

SPEAKER_00 15:58

Right. Have you ever been around somebody that just doesn't think before they speak?

SPEAKER_02 16:02

And you're just like, Oh, I mentioned my salespeople, right?

SPEAKER_00 16:06

Like we would say, did you just say that?

SPEAKER_02 16:09

There's no like it's here to hear. There's no like, how is this gonna sound? And then you can see them trying to grab the words after they've said a right.

SPEAKER_00 16:16

It's like Michael's read the room before you speak, read the room, but he's doing that at basically a level that's super taxing, right? So if you're naturally a quiet person, it's an easy thing. Yeah, if you're mean, it's not easy. Yeah, Gregory is trying so hard to fit in that again, he's masking, he's wanting to be a part of whatever.

SPEAKER_02 16:44

That's the interesting thing. That that means that there's an awareness that he has that he might not fit in if he just if he just acted in a way that was just perfectly in line with what his natural instincts are, he's aware that that that that might not be acceptable in a social setting. Correct. Wow, right? Because I think that generally people think that people with autism have low IQs. And as measured officially, they are low, right? Like if you sat him down and took the sample.

SPEAKER_00 17:08

Right.

unknown 17:09

Right.

SPEAKER_02 17:09

But what's your take on that? What's your take on the I whole IQ question? Do the low IQs or not?

SPEAKER_00 17:15

How do you measure it? How do you measure it if it can't answer questions, if it can't figure out how do you measure it? That's the problem. How do you measure it?

SPEAKER_02 17:25

So your point is is that is that the test itself is designed in a way that like it's just like it doesn't help you, it doesn't help you understand their mental capacity. Like his mental capacity is so would you argue that that his brain is it's a hard question, but like is it just different? Like it's not good or bad, it's just different.

SPEAKER_00 17:47

It's just different. His uh the first therapist that he came out singing the ABCs, she was amazing, and she did hold his head, and she said that he had an overlap on his frontal lobe. No one had ever told me that. And I was like, what does that mean? Well, your frontal lobe is your processing, your decision making.

SPEAKER_02 18:09

Is it this is the thing that they told me when we had our son that that thing develops that doesn't develop what until they're 25 or something?

SPEAKER_00 18:16

Yeah, the frontal lobe, right? So it's like this, and then it I think it goes like this, whatever. Gregor's is like this. Okay, it's still like that. So I asked for an MRI to make sure there wasn't a tumor because I had worked in the school district that they thought a little boy was autistic, and he actually had a brain tuber. It's pretty sad. He didn't have speech, he didn't have this, so they they just didn't and they said no. They said we're not going to because you have to knock him out. And he was little, you have to knock him out to do it, and they just didn't want to take the risk of that, and you're not gonna treat him any different than you are now, if you know anything else. Well, if I knew he had a tumor, I might has he ever had an MRI of his head? So here, like five years ago, because of Jesse's brain aneurysm, they said, well, remember when he had the heart, he had the AFib or whatever the heart situation. We had to monitor and they said, you know what, why don't we just go ahead because his dad, because they they have now said that's hereditary. Um, so I'm like, okay, I mean, I I'm not sure if this is gonna work. And so they had an incredible team, and he did the MRI with contrast, without contrast, and he was so good the whole time. We did give him an anti-anxiety drug, which a lot of people take. So we get home, and I'm with the guy, and he's like, Oh, everything looks good. We don't see any masses, we don't see anything. All of his um, everything looks clear, everything's pumping right. I said, Okay, great. We get home, they call us, they go, Oh, we accidentally deleted those files. Can you bring Gregory back?

SPEAKER_02 20:00

And I said, Oh no.

SPEAKER_00 20:02

I said, You said everything looked good, we're not going through that again. I said that was pretty bad. And his anxiety leading up to that, because it's the IV. I mean, it was just a whole lot going on there.

SPEAKER_02 20:15

It's a whole thing.

SPEAKER_00 20:16

I said, You said everything looked good. I'm I'm okay with that.

SPEAKER_02 20:22

We're gonna take yes for an answer and we're out of here.

SPEAKER_00 20:25

That was too too much. Wow, but yeah, it's it's interesting, doctor's appointments and all that. I mean, right now he's at an age where he needs to go. I mean, they always do, but his annual physical and his annual blood drawn, and up until this last year, now he is 31. It was awful.

SPEAKER_02 20:47

Really?

SPEAKER_00 20:47

He would just give me the hardest time. I don't know why I have to do that.

SPEAKER_02 20:52

There's a part of the physical they do for guys, which is not fun at all. Did they do that for him?

SPEAKER_00 20:56

Well, he hasn't had that yet. I don't know what it that starts at 50, right?

SPEAKER_02 21:02

I don't know. It starts too soon.

SPEAKER_00 21:04

I know, and I can't.

SPEAKER_02 21:11

I'm not you can't be a hard one to explain.

SPEAKER_00 21:15

You can be the bad guy on that one. All these things. I'm just like, oh, this is what you need its dad for. Uh, but anyway, the blood drawn. Oh my goodness, you would think they were taking his head off.

SPEAKER_02 21:31

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_00 21:32

And so last year this woman was amazing. He and he has to watch. I said, just don't watch. Oh, I have to watch.

SPEAKER_02 21:38

I was gonna say, can they just knock him out and do all this stuff if they wake him back up?

SPEAKER_00 21:41

I know they won't do that. And I said, Gregory, if you look, it's just gonna be more stressful. I have to watch her, I have to watch. And I'm like, I watch her, and she was amazing. He didn't even know that she put it in him, but he goes, That wasn't bad, that wasn't bad. Oh, good, and they're and they're really good for him, but just all of those things. That you just, I don't know if you forget about or just want to put put away. It's it's pretty stressful.

SPEAKER_02 22:07

Yeah, it's the list of things that kind of everyone sort of takes for granted, like the dentist, the doctor, the the airplane, the airport, the haircuts, the restaurant. Oh, the haircuts, the haircuts. So every one of those things you have to do what? You have to create a special plan around.

SPEAKER_00 22:23

You know, we didn't know he was autistic at his first haircut. And I look back at those pictures and I'm just like, oh, it was awful. We had him in a headlock. It was awful.

SPEAKER_03 22:33

Oh no.

SPEAKER_00 22:34

We're just like, what is going on? Why doesn't he? He wasn't born with a lot of hair, but then he got hair before he was diagnosed, and he was screaming. Oh like we were jabbing toothpicks under his mouth.

SPEAKER_02 22:49

And they're just like, oh come on, dude. So talk about the haircut through time. I think this would be helpful for parents. Like, so you start and it was a mess, right? And then I know how does it transition as he got older?

SPEAKER_00 23:03

I would have taken him to a children's place where he could have been in a car on a horse, distracted, and did a real quick trim and been done. And then the next I would have taken him in steps. I would not have done what I did to him.

SPEAKER_02 23:18

It was do you dupe the take them there and don't get their hair cut? Like, see the place?

SPEAKER_00 23:23

I never did that. I did that with the dentist, but I never did that with the haircut. I did take extra shirts up until my gosh, probably five years ago. Maybe not even five years ago. Because he wanted that shirt because there's gonna be hair somewhere on that shirt.

SPEAKER_02 23:38

That's gotta go.

SPEAKER_00 23:40

So it's gotta go. So he did a haircut. We and then we even tried to shake it out, whatever. Nope, there's one in there. Get it off. So we took an extra shirt. That wasn't easy, right?

SPEAKER_02 23:51

Maybe the princess is the peak at autism. That's not easy.

SPEAKER_00 23:54

I'm like, oh my gosh, but it must feel like a needle. Wow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:00

But how did it progress? Like go from like he's an infant to he's a toddler to he's still in elementary school.

SPEAKER_00 24:06

Like, was it the same every time, or was it like a really long arc before it became not it was a really long arc because we didn't have a vid diagnosis, so we forced him to get his haircut, which was awful. And you know, typical children don't like, I mean, it's a huge sensory thing, huge, yeah. It was scary too. And then once we figured it out, figured out the extra shirt, figured out washing his hair, because sometimes they just do little kids dry or whatever, or they squirt them down, cut it, and they go. Well, they had to wash all that extra hair away. And then we we went to a children's place that was more fun, right? Sitting on a carousel horse or in a car just to kind of distract him. And then we and then before the buzzer started, you know, she would put the buzzer on his arm, you know, make sure that he felt the vibration. He really does not like the buzzer, still doesn't really care for the buzzer. She did his ears last week, and he was just like, he was sitting in that chair.

SPEAKER_02 25:07

Like, what are we doing here?

SPEAKER_00 25:08

What is she doing to you? He goes, I'm not sure. I was like, Kristen, what are you doing?

SPEAKER_02 25:15

This is 30 years later. So, like, it's it's like, oh, was there like a pre is there a preamble to something to a doctor's visit or something where you start out a few days in advance and start trying to oh absolutely, weeks in advance, weeks in advance appointments do weeks in advance, Gregory? You're gonna get your teeth cleaned, okay, okay, extra anxiety to have for 10 days, is not better just to like no, it's better to give him a heads up. Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 25:40

Well, and then he'll say, Okay, okay, and then next week, remember next week we have a okay, okay. And then, you know, I'll work up to it. And those days are non-work days. If it's a dentist, haircut, doctor, anything that is really stressful for him, that's it. You're done. Don't have an order.

SPEAKER_02 26:01

He comes home and goes to sleep.

SPEAKER_00 26:03

He just has to decompress from it.

SPEAKER_02 26:06

So he comes home and is any of this like control issue related? Like, or is it all just is it all different? It's all just sensory. What do you mean? You know, you're in someone else's chair, they're they're swinging those scissors around, you're not swinging the scissors, or is it just that he feels everything way more amplified than we do?

SPEAKER_00 26:26

Well, I think he feels everything more amplified, and I think it's just a lot in the environment. I think there's a lot going on. Think of a salon. You got a bunch of men, he goes with me to get my earth.

SPEAKER_02 26:37

Someone told me this. I don't know if you told me this or not, but this is true. Someone told me the way to think about a person with autism is to think about um is to think about the fact that as we're sitting here having this conversation, right? There's things going on where you are, there's things going on where I am, there's stuff around me, right? There's noises from the hall, but pretty much all that stuff for me is gone, right? I can sit and look at the screen and sit and talk to you, and that's all I hear. Because basically, the way it was described to me is that there's these filters that are filtering out like 95% of the things you interact with, right? Imagine driving down the road. For us, we're driving down the road, but there is a tree, there is a post, there is a pot. All that stuff kind of just blends in the dark, and you're and your mind kind of elevates the things it thinks you should focus on. Someone told me that if you have autism, there's no filter. So the pothole, the tree, the the camera on the side of the road, the car in the other lane are all of equally important. So you just have what feels like way more information coming in. Is that do you think that's a fair description of what's going on?

SPEAKER_00 27:41

Very good description because you know, everybody says, Does he drive? He he he drives my truck. You know, we'll do a go around the neighborhood and he'll drive. And he has the Polaris, he drives to the mailbox every day, right? You know, I tell him, watch out for the cars, and we're not real far from it.

SPEAKER_02 27:56

But the mailbox isn't into your driver, the mailbox is a block away.

SPEAKER_00 27:59

Mailbox is a block away. So he drives it to the mailbox and can so he has to go out of the gate on the road with cars and everything else. Go turn around, which people are coming off of 200, get to the mailbox, get the mail. I mean, it's like, oh my gosh, he's great at it, but when I'm with him, I'm like, oh my god, I'm not sure what he's thinking about. I'm just like, he's like, oh, I'm like, glad it's in a gated community.

SPEAKER_03 28:25

Right.

SPEAKER_00 28:26

Because he would be a great driver, it'd be everybody else.

SPEAKER_02 28:29

Yeah, he'd be super careful, he would not be defensive, he would be that's where the fatigue comes from. Is it you're sitting there and like we can be at a concert, be focusing on the show, and the conversation going on behind you, or the people smacking their gum, or the ice rattling in the drink, it's all gone to us. But but if you don't have that filter, then you're in a room with 30,000 people. There's a 30,000 separate things going on, right?

SPEAKER_00 28:52

He sees everything and he hears everything, like the children who'll hear this and he'll hear that. He'll he said, We took it to a basketball game, which was a lot of fun in UT basketball. He goes, There were some very passionate fans there today. And I said, There weren't he goes, You didn't hear them. I didn't hear them. They were either next door or down. He goes, they were very passionate.

SPEAKER_02 29:15

Oh, they're screaming and yelling.

SPEAKER_00 29:17

So they must have been like really, yeah. There was a real close game.

SPEAKER_02 29:21

So when he gets home, is the environment at home like to shut down all those different oh my gosh, just down to one thing.

SPEAKER_00 29:28

Yeah, he used to come upstairs because this was his room that I'm in, and you didn't hear from him for hours, and now he goes to his house with the door pulled per shade and so he's not the only one in our family, not to name names, that likes to spend a lot of time alone. Exactly. I know we all have it, we all have it. My family may have more than most concept, right?

SPEAKER_02 29:54

So so, like, is does everyone have these same things that make them uncomfortable and the same things that make them overwhelmed, and the same things that they're that are irritating. But the difference of being autistic and not autistic is that it's just this coping mechanism thing. We all we all like some of us like we don't want to get our hair cut, but we do.

SPEAKER_00 30:15

We do. We don't want to go to the dentist. You know how many people are scared to death of the dentist, but they do right.

SPEAKER_02 30:22

So and so it's like the difference is just it's hard to for me to explain, but it feels like it's just this not just, but it's it's the ability to cope without taking it on as like stress, letting it come in and stress you out and move on versus just amplify, amplify and amplify.

SPEAKER_00 30:41

But what do you do when you go home from work?

SPEAKER_02 30:44

I usually overeat, that's why I'm fat, right?

unknown 30:47

Right.

SPEAKER_00 30:48

So your stress is food.

SPEAKER_02 30:50

Yeah, I I stress each.

SPEAKER_00 30:51

You de oh you de-stress with food.

SPEAKER_02 30:55

Yeah, yeah. I think that for me, like when I'm around a lot of people, it's stressful for me, right? Uh-huh. And so I'll be tired. Right. Even it's no, it's not, it doesn't matter which people, by the way. Like it could be family, it could be whatever, but like it's there's there's just like a certain amount of energy that that's your body level commitment that comes around being around a lot of people that you don't have when you're when you're home alone. And so, yeah, so I think you know, trying to do nothing is is is helpful, right? Right. I don't have like a I wish I had a routine, like a de-stressing routine. I wish I I want to try this this massage thing. Um because now I'm learning IH, I'm learning all about how people who have had careers like mine, um you know, they die early of stress. Like stress is like stress, stress is more toxic than like smoking or drinking or weight, right?

SPEAKER_00 31:48

Our business too.

SPEAKER_02 31:50

Yeah. And so it's kind of like, you know, I need I need the same tools he has. It's just that it's just that I guess not having a diagnosis is that you're you're not you're it feels a little bit self-indulgent, right?

SPEAKER_00 32:02

Like getting up, getting, I mean, do you ever get massages at all? Just regular body massages. I can't do it. No, I can't, I can't sit still and be quiet for that long. But with Gregory's therapist, he just fixes me, so I'm fine with it. There's no music, he is in there to do the work.

SPEAKER_02 32:28

I I think I have a lot of the same traits that Gregory has, but luckily I've got more ability to cope with them. Right. But I think the same tools he uses to de-stress would be helpful for me.

SPEAKER_00 32:38

I think so too. If you're ever in town for any length of time, that's part of my stress.

SPEAKER_02 32:43

I'm never in town.

SPEAKER_00 32:44

Well, get you absolutely, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 32:46

It's gonna be fun to look back at all these podcasts because I think my background changes on every up on every episode.

SPEAKER_00 32:51

It does. I'm in my library now.

SPEAKER_02 32:53

I see that's very nice.

SPEAKER_00 32:54

Awesome.

SPEAKER_02 32:56

All right.

SPEAKER_00 32:56

All right, that was a good one.

SPEAKER_03 32:58

It was uh very real.

SPEAKER_02 33:01

Yeah, and I think it's fascinating to think about how those how the dentist visit, the doctor visit, the haircut, those things that you have to prepare for them weeks in advance. And then there's gonna be an arc to how difficult it is to get prepared for them. And over time, though, I guess the good news is that the entertainment it gets easier.

SPEAKER_00 33:21

So next week we have something Monday night. We're going to the where they announce the Broadway series, which I told him because we have a play Tuesday night.

unknown 33:30

Right.

SPEAKER_00 33:30

So that's two nights driving downtown. I know, I know. So we'll see how he does. That's Wednesday will be a bus till December.

SPEAKER_02 33:37

Well, you've done all the good work to get you here. So now you're getting the dividend for it.

SPEAKER_00 33:40

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 33:41

Awesome. All right.

SPEAKER_00 33:42

All right, until next time.

SPEAKER_02 33:44

Till next time. See ya. Bye bye. Bye.