SPEAKER_01: I don't want your kid to be gay.
SPEAKER_01: I don't want them to be lesbian.
SPEAKER_01: I don't want them to be trans.
SPEAKER_01: I want them to be happy.
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Queering Education, where we challenge what school is and build what it should be.
SPEAKER_00: I'm Brian Stanton.
SPEAKER_00: This is a Teaching While Queer podcast about inclusive teaching, queer pedagogy, and showing up authentically in every classroom.
SPEAKER_00: Alright, let's do the work.
SPEAKER_00: Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of Queering Education.
SPEAKER_00: My name is Brian Stanton.
SPEAKER_00: I am your host.
SPEAKER_00: My pronouns are they, them.
SPEAKER_00: Today our guest is Christian Sherrod, who I found on Instagram and has been doing some really amazing work.
SPEAKER_00: Hey Christian, can you take a second to introduce yourself to those who are listening?
SPEAKER_01: My name is Christian Sherrod.
SPEAKER_01: I am a math teacher out of Los Angeles.
SPEAKER_01: My pronouns are he, him, and I've been teaching for about eight years now.
SPEAKER_01: Um probably most known for I don't know, doing SEL lessons with my class, centered mostly around just being a good person, which happens to include being kind towards LGBT people.
SPEAKER_00: Strange how kindness can be so controversial.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right?
SPEAKER_01: Like kindness, what and you know, kindness isn't an issue until you say kindness towards, I don't know, gay people or trans people, and then people lose their minds, right?
SPEAKER_01: It's like kindness shouldn't be, I don't know, exclusive.
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01: It should be something that's very much inclusive.
SPEAKER_00: That's what I think is so funny about people who have an uproar about like everyone is welcome here, signs, um, or the fact that like the all lives matter gang disappears when it becomes a marginalized group that needs to have the focus for a moment.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's it's really weird.
SPEAKER_01: I feel like maybe they feel excluded in some weird way, but like if I say, I don't know, I value a certain group of people, it doesn't mean I disvalue everyone else.
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01: It's just like, hey, like, this certain group of people need some positivity and they need to be lifted up right now.
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's a good thing.
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00: It's it's crazy the scarcity mentality we have in the world that it it applies to everything, it's not just like resources or material things, it's like hope or kindness.
SPEAKER_00: You can only have so much.
SPEAKER_00: So if you're gonna be kind to everybody, then there's not enough kindness for me.
SPEAKER_00: It's just an interesting uh mindset that the world, like society has right now when it comes to everything being like not sustainable.
SPEAKER_00: But I honestly feel like kindness at minimum is one of the most sustainable things that we have out there.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's definitely a renewable resource, you know.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00: Let's talk a little bit about what got you into education.
SPEAKER_00: Did you always want to teach, or is this something that you came to when you were an adult?
SPEAKER_01: You know, as a kid, I honestly freaking hated school.
SPEAKER_01: I did not like it one little bit.
SPEAKER_01: Um, I do come from a long line of educators, though.
SPEAKER_01: Like my great-grandparents were teachers or principals.
SPEAKER_01: My aunties, my mom ended up teaching.
SPEAKER_01: It kinda it's kind of something that just fell into my lap when I graduated from school.
SPEAKER_01: So I graduated from the University of North Texas and I went to a job fair and I was applying to everywhere because at the time I was I was still living with my mom.
SPEAKER_01: I was like, yo, I gotta get a job and get the dick out of there.
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01: Like so I applied to everywhere, and the first place that gave me a call back was a place called EF, like education first, I think.
SPEAKER_01: And they were like, hey, we got a position for you.
SPEAKER_01: I was like, hey, cool.
SPEAKER_01: And they were like, Do you mind teaching in China?
SPEAKER_01: I was like, you know what?
SPEAKER_01: I will do anything if it helps me get out of my mom's house right now.
SPEAKER_01: So yes, please.
SPEAKER_01: Uh I went and I taught in China for a while.
SPEAKER_01: And then after that I came home and I was a delivery driver for a while, and I was like, you know what?
SPEAKER_01: I really enjoy teaching in China.
SPEAKER_01: Why don't I do it here too?
SPEAKER_01: And I don't know if you how you got your certificate in Texas, but I got mine through the Alt Cert program, and at the time it was so incredibly easy.
SPEAKER_01: I think I got certified within six months or something.
SPEAKER_01: Like, a little too easy to be honest with you.
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, if you would have talked to my younger self and said, hey, you're gonna be a teacher, I probably would have given you the finger and told you to flip off.
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01: Like, get out of here.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I also got an alternative teaching credential when I was living in Texas, and you know, I think that there's uh this like weird dichotomy that happened or some like judgment that was going on because like I couldn't even get a student teacher from places like Texas State or Texas Tech, even though I had been recognized by Texas Thesbians and I had been a teacher of the year for my district, but because I had an online alternative certification, I was like somehow lesser than it's wild.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, education in a in general can be a bit pretentious, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01: And if I can say something a little controversial real quick, I think there might be a negative correlation between how well someone teaches and how much education they might have.
SPEAKER_01: Like, I know teachers who have doctorates who cannot command a classroom.
SPEAKER_01: They don't have good classroom management skills, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01: They've got the paper, you know what I mean, but like sometimes it feels like they have an air about them where it's like I have this paper and I'm I'm I'm better than, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01: But I have an alt cert, I have a bachelor's degree, and if you were to walk into my room, like there is a clear order to how I teach.
SPEAKER_01: The kids get it, they're engaged.
SPEAKER_01: So I don't know, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01: I I feel like a lot of times, like education can be a bit stuffy, you know?
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's funny, and I mean no disrespect to to folks, but I had this experience when I went from teaching in high school to teaching and working at a university, that sometimes folks were um observing me at the university level who had been teaching at a university for several years, but have never taken like a pedagogy course or never had to take a classroom management class.
SPEAKER_00: And so because my experience was different and um because I interacted with students differently, there were like things that were brought up in my my uh walkthroughs and whatnot that I was like, huh, this person doesn't actually know what they're talking about when it comes to these specific things.
SPEAKER_00: It it's wild, and again, I don't mean any disrespect.
SPEAKER_00: Like um, I think that going directly from your degrees into higher education is a fantastic route.
SPEAKER_00: And honestly, maybe I should have done that, but um you know, I've I've worked a lot as an educator, and and I do my best to make sure that my students, my students are getting what they need.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's a lot of zit and get, especially in college.
SPEAKER_01: It's like they go there, they present their slides, they're like, here's the stuff, and then they get out of there.
SPEAKER_01: But I don't know, in high school and stuff like that, I hate being observed by somebody that I know I teach better than.
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, oh, like you're gonna come in here and you're gonna judge my teaching.
SPEAKER_01: Let me see you run this classroom better.
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01: And do you ever feel like it's always like I don't know how many people you have in your room during your observations, but sometimes I have a ton of people in there, like four or five, and afterwards it's always like a gotcha moment.
SPEAKER_01: It's like who can point out the biggest flaw in the lesson?
SPEAKER_01: And like sometimes you just gotta say it's a good lesson and let people have their flowers.
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't have to be a gotcha moment, you know?
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've only ever had one person observing me at a time, but I really think about that gotcha moment.
SPEAKER_00: I recently did a PD at my school that I'm currently at, and one of the things we were looking at as arts educators was like, if we watch our students perform or we listen to our students rehearse, like, how much feedback can we get out of that three-minute song or uh scene that there's that our students are doing?
SPEAKER_00: And it's like we were watching videos, and like the person who taught the class was getting like 20 pieces of feedback by watching this three-minute video, and the people who were observing it who were just other arts educators were getting like 11 to 15 pieces of feedback.
SPEAKER_00: And I think the idea is that the more feedback we can give to our students, the more we'll be able to adjust.
SPEAKER_00: And I think about this from a theater perspective, that makes perfect sense, right?
SPEAKER_00: That's why we have stage managers that take notes to keep things going, but at the same time, like from the educational standpoint, I would prefer to work on quality versus the quantity of feedback.
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, the quality aspect of it, and then also like you're trying to lift each other up and build confidence as well.
SPEAKER_01: So, like, knowing when to like hold your tongue and let somebody, I don't know, have their moment is okay, you know.
SPEAKER_01: Like, sometimes the feedback could just be like, hey, you did a phenomenal job.
SPEAKER_00: So you have a very large following online and are a very vocal advocate for inclusive education.
SPEAKER_00: And I've seen some videos where you have to like field these questions as an ally, um, where oftentimes that you're misidentified as somebody who is a member of the community.
SPEAKER_00: For instance, I saw a um comment that you commented on um that was like, why did you decide to be trans?
SPEAKER_00: And um the reality is that in fact you are not.
SPEAKER_00: And so what was what is it like for you to be so vocal and public about your support of inclusive education?
SPEAKER_01: Well, I do advocate quite a bit, but being a teacher in Los Angeles, like people are a little bit more open-minded, especially like the people at my school.
SPEAKER_01: Uh, I only really get crazy questions from like people online, like saying, like, they just assume that because I have a trans wife that I want all the kids to be trans.
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, yo, I don't want your kid to be gay.
SPEAKER_01: I don't want them to be lesbian, I don't want them to be trans.
SPEAKER_01: I want them to be happy.
SPEAKER_01: The ones who are, I want them to be included.
SPEAKER_01: It's not like I want to go out and like convert everybody.
SPEAKER_01: I don't keep a pair of cash grading scissors in my drawer, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01: Like I'm not doing gender reassignment surgery during my prep.
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01: I'm grading papers and stuff.
SPEAKER_01: My entire goal is to have an inclusive classroom where we can have fun, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01: Like kids get along and play together, you know, like it's not really that deep, but people try and make it that way.
SPEAKER_01: I know I I had a video that was like one of my most controversial where we were talking about transness.
SPEAKER_01: It was uh trans visibility day, I think, or something.
SPEAKER_01: And as kids walked in, I gave them a paper all crumpled up, and it had a gender on there, right?
SPEAKER_01: I had um I had boy, girl, and non-binary, right?
SPEAKER_01: And I gave them a piece of paper and I had him open it up, and I said, Who in here identifies with the gender they were assigned?
SPEAKER_01: A few people did.
SPEAKER_01: Who doesn't?
SPEAKER_01: A lot of people don't.
SPEAKER_01: And I said, that is exactly how trans people feel.
SPEAKER_01: I say, you're assigned something, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01: Like you're born and like you don't really get to choose your gender.
SPEAKER_01: And sometimes you might not feel like that, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01: And and I feel like putting it in that perspective, having them live it, even if only for a few minutes, where they looked at this gender and said, This is not me, I feel like help them understand trans people a little bit better.
SPEAKER_01: But people online will see that and say, teacher assigns children's gender for homework, blah blah blah.
SPEAKER_01: No, it was it was to put it in perspective for a few minutes, you know?
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00: I teach theater and I find that people will have a problem with like a piece of theater that we're reading or a piece of theater that we're producing because there's like one instance of queerness in it when in fact the whole piece has a bigger message.
SPEAKER_01: To be fair though, hasn't theater always been kind of queer?
SPEAKER_01: There's always been some type of cross-dressing and guys playing girls, girls playing guys, and it's it's always supposed to be campy and fun.
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01: What is theater without a little queerness?
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00: I mean, there have been men dressing as women and and vice versa for years.
SPEAKER_00: And I think even back to like opera, there are so many like pants roles for females where females are playing male characters in the operatic world, and that's you know, centuries old.
SPEAKER_00: Um it's just an art form that isn't innately is innately queer, but a lot of people will be like, this isn't a part of your curriculum.
SPEAKER_00: You shouldn't be teaching this in your class.
SPEAKER_00: And so I know that you have these conversations online and you're very vocal about like these lessons that you have with your students, especially when it comes to like boundaries and whatnot.
SPEAKER_00: And so I wanted to know, you know, how does that get incorporated into your daily lessons?
SPEAKER_01: So I teach currently algebra one to freshmen and eight pre-calculus to seniors, but we also have a period on Mondays, which is called advisory, and that's usually when I teach.
SPEAKER_01: It's not like I'm, I don't know, teaching complex polar coordinates and I take a break and I say, All right, everybody, we're gonna talk about gender now.
SPEAKER_01: Like it's not like that, you know?
SPEAKER_01: There's SEL lessons that happen, and sometimes I don't feel like it's enough.
SPEAKER_01: And I'll make my own five, ten-minute presentation just to make sure that I don't know, we are being kind or inclusive.
SPEAKER_01: And a lot of times the things that I'm teaching about is something that is culturally relevant at the time.
SPEAKER_01: For example, um, the other day I did a lesson on the boundaries between teachers and students because it's been in the news a lot, you know what I mean, with Hailey Beck.
SPEAKER_01: Everybody's been talking about Hayley Beck and like how weird she was, and I was like, yo, everything about that was weird, and it's weird that it didn't come about sooner, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01: And teachers are in a position of trust, they're in a position of power, and sometimes students don't understand that sometimes what their teacher might be doing is kind of weird.
SPEAKER_01: So I was like, hey, I'm gonna put together a five-minute presentation on boundaries.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you had a recent video that was about like, should my teacher be asking for my personal phone number?
SPEAKER_00: No, and I was like, oh, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00: I need boundaries, I don't need you calling me, I don't want your parents calling me.
SPEAKER_00: I don't need that.
SPEAKER_00: I will use Remind, I will use other apps for that, but we are not giving out my personal phone number.
SPEAKER_01: You know, I have known a few teachers who don't mind giving out their number.
SPEAKER_01: And I think it's a little I think it's a little weird.
SPEAKER_01: And they'll be like, oh yeah, you know, like coach so-and-so, you know, just for the athletes, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, your coach can also use, I don't know, Google Voice or something a little bit more professional.
SPEAKER_01: Shouldn't have a closed line of communication with a minor at all.
SPEAKER_01: Like it's weird, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00: Like Yeah, I think about the idea that we shouldn't be behind closed doors with like individual students and whatnot.
SPEAKER_00: That's like been drilled into my head through like ethics trainings and whatnot.
SPEAKER_00: And so I think that same thing applies when we're talking about digital communication, that this one-on-one communication is really not the best route to go.
SPEAKER_00: And so, like, yes, we need to like allow for students to be able to confide in us, but at the same time, like we shouldn't be putting ourselves in situations where we are uh the only person that is privy to a conversation.
SPEAKER_01: Now, if a student if a student needs like to confide or something like after class, like, hey, like I've really been going through something, that's a lot different, and I feel like it's not crossing the line until there's that extra conversation with I don't know, outside of school.
SPEAKER_01: Because it is within our our scope to help our students emotionally sometimes.
SPEAKER_01: You know, they're going through big changes in their life, and sometimes they do need someone to talk to, but you don't need to do it in private.
SPEAKER_01: You know, you don't need to do it via Snapchat, especially, you know.
SPEAKER_00: Oh, for sure.
SPEAKER_00: I think it's crazy when students find like teachers' Snapchats, and I would never like use Snapchat as like a a tool to communicate with my students.
SPEAKER_00: And it's like funny because like I won't even post like a shirtless selfie.
SPEAKER_00: Like Snapchat has a little bit different intent than on than other things.
SPEAKER_00: So like my Instagram doesn't even have like that shirtless selfie vibe.
SPEAKER_00: I do on my Instagram.
SPEAKER_01: Hey, dude, like I I'm 30 years old.
SPEAKER_01: I'm never gonna be as young as and in shape, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01: Like I definitely post shirtless photos, yeah.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, and I'm not saying that there's something wrong with like a shirtless selfie or something like that, but I do think a lot about like the intent behind a selfie, and sometimes, you know, them Snapchat selfies or you know, bathroom mirror selfies that are you know given a little bit more than what you would expect, you know, to see from a teacher on Instagram.
SPEAKER_01: I I I go to the gym a lot, I'm proud of myself, I'm proud of my body, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01: And I have never gotten anything weird from a student from that type of like picture.
SPEAKER_01: The only thing a student's ever said, and I've had a few of them, and they're like, yo, Mr.
SPEAKER_01: Russ, what's your ab routine?
SPEAKER_01: And that's it.
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01: They're asking for like they're asking for for fitness advice, they're not being weird, you know.
SPEAKER_01: So where do you think where do you think the line is for educators with public accounts as far as what they can or should post?
SPEAKER_00: Like this is such a tricky question because when I first started teaching, I think the biggest thing that I struggled with was this idea that I was no longer like a person, I am a teacher.
SPEAKER_00: And so that put me into the space of like role model.
SPEAKER_00: And then it's like I lost a lot of myself because I was constantly thinking about like who's watching and what's going on.
SPEAKER_00: And I think that teachers should be allowed to be adults on social media, and you should allow be allowed to have your life, and you should be allowed to do what you like on your social media.
SPEAKER_00: You won't find me, you know, doing things that would be considered like having a being a bad influence, but like I do have, you know, a shirtless selfie of myself on vacation, like on the beach, and I do have um pictures of myself, you know, where I'm dancing and whatnot.
SPEAKER_00: And I think that it is okay for us to live our lives.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, a lot of it is, and I get called a bad influence all the time because I don't know, I'll be silly, I'll put on a dress, I'll do this, I'll do that.
SPEAKER_01: But the thing is, you will never see me post anything about me drinking, about me smoking, um, gambling, hate gambling.
SPEAKER_01: Yo, there's gambling companies who reach out to me all the time offering me thousands of dollars, and they know I'm a teacher.
SPEAKER_01: They know I have a following of children, and they're trying to get me to push that heck no, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01: The the craziest thing you're gonna see on my page is like every now and then me and my girlfriend will will, you know, joke around or like, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01: But it's never anything like crazy, you know?
SPEAKER_01: Especially like as my platform has grown too, I don't just have people looking at me in my classroom.
SPEAKER_01: I go out and I party, for sure, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01: Like, and I try to be as responsible as I can, but like you know, I'll have people come up to me and and be like, oh, Mr.
SPEAKER_01: Sherrod.
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like thinking in my head, I'm like, have I been acting correctly?
SPEAKER_01: Have I been have I been have I been good for the past ten minutes while this person's been looking at me?
SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, like That's funny, like
SPEAKER_00: It's like that grocery store moment where like somebody walks up to you and you're like at the grocery store and you're like, oh god, was I just walking down like a hill?
SPEAKER_00: But all that stuff aside, the the role model and whatnot, the work that you do and to do it in such a public setting is such an amazing thing.
SPEAKER_00: And I wonder, like, how you approach making these topics like consent and boundaries and whatnot accessible to your students and and and then translate that into being accessible for people on the internet.
SPEAKER_01: I try and boil down any topic that is important as much as possible.
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01: Consent doesn't have to be a crazy biological or graphic thing, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01: Boil it down to a hub.
SPEAKER_01: Boil it down to like holding a hand.
SPEAKER_01: All that stuff requires consent.
SPEAKER_01: So when I'm thinking about the lessons for my son, I'm thinking about how can I do this in the most simple terms possible for him to get it.
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01: The language that I use, the scenarios that I use, stuff like that.
SPEAKER_01: And the same thing for my students too.
SPEAKER_01: I I instead of boiling it down, you know what I mean, I'll take the the bare concept and I'll and I'll bring it up.
SPEAKER_01: I'll bring it up to the high school level, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01: And consent is so incredibly important.
SPEAKER_01: And I wish that more men would have those conversations with their sons.
SPEAKER_01: Um I feel like there's a lack of communication in general between fathers and their sons.
SPEAKER_01: And I think these are very important topics to have, like conversations to have.
SPEAKER_01: And because so many people are missing those conversations with their fathers, that's why I try and do it during class, doing it during SEO, you know?
SPEAKER_01: And the conversations that I put out there online aren't aren't just for clout, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01: Like it's so that other people have the same conversations.
SPEAKER_01: See my see my bare bones presentation.
SPEAKER_01: Take it and ask the same questions to your kid.
SPEAKER_01: Ask the same questions to your class, you know.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think it's interesting, like as a parent and a teacher right now, observing what I see happening in schools, and sometimes these conversations are hard and they're not happening at home.
SPEAKER_00: So what I love is that you bring them to, you know, parental audiences.
SPEAKER_00: But that aside, I was watching a reel earlier that was talking about like it was a teacher's perspective who would witness like putting grades on an app, like a portal or an app where parents could find them and students can find them without talking to the teacher.
SPEAKER_00: And when we used to have paper grade books, like the teacher was the source.
SPEAKER_00: And so students would have to come talk to their teachers to find out how their grades were doing and like how to get, you know, what they needed to improve on.
SPEAKER_00: And there was this dialogue that was happening, and now things have shifted because of that, where the dialogue is no longer from the student perspective, but like parents getting on teachers about like, why is my kid's grade like this?
SPEAKER_00: And and having so much access to what's happening at school that like it's creating a huge problem.
SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's creating a breakdown in the relationship between the teacher and the student.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: It's very true.
SPEAKER_01: Like, students in general these days um are a bit unruly.
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01: The students themselves, like a lot of yo, there's students who are like, yo, I don't even listen to my mom.
SPEAKER_01: Why would I listen to you?
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01: It's like what what do you what do you say to that?
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01: And how do you feel how do you feel respect is in general towards queer teachers?
SPEAKER_01: Do you think do you think it's less or more from the students?
SPEAKER_00: Like, how do you I think that it's a mixed bag, to be honest.
SPEAKER_00: Uh, with some students, the queer teacher is gonna have a lot more respect and they're gonna be the teacher that you go to, and then there's gonna be other students uh where you don't have a strong relationship, but the thing I find pretty consistently, at least in my experience for the most part, is that I don't deal with a lot of anti-queer behavior from the students themselves.
SPEAKER_00: Most of that comes from parents and community members and whatnot.
SPEAKER_00: It's not really the kids.
SPEAKER_00: And I've heard from quite a few people that same sentiment.
SPEAKER_00: There have been instances in interviews where I've heard about people uh who have, you know, had anti-queer attacks happen up from a student, but they're really few and far between compared to the amount of adults who are attacking queer people, and they're not even going after just queer teachers, they're going after queer students too.
SPEAKER_00: And this takes me back to like that idea that I was talking about with the reel earlier about like, you know, parent portals and whatnot.
SPEAKER_00: Like, parents think that they can micromanage everything that's happening at school and they're constantly like on you about like when are you gonna get this graded?
SPEAKER_00: Because they know that their kid turned something in, or their kid told them that they turned something in.
SPEAKER_00: Uh, but albeit it was probably late, and now it has become your personal problem to grade this late work that the student has has turned in.
SPEAKER_00: But it's it's been pretty wild how adults treat other adults, um, you know, when it comes to teaching, because I can't imagine my parents doing that.
SPEAKER_01: We've we've turned into a customer service job.
SPEAKER_01: We're no longer we're no longer education.
SPEAKER_01: Like, we are a customer service job, and like the the parents are the ones calling in and complaining and trying to make change from the outside.
SPEAKER_01: Some of the admin that I love the best are the ones that know how to handle those parents.
SPEAKER_01: Like, ma'am, like we are taking care of stuff at school.
SPEAKER_01: We're worried about school, you worry about home because your kid needs it.
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01: Like, and the thing that I've noticed most about like disrespect towards queer people is, especially with like gayness, right?
SPEAKER_01: Take a masculine gay man and a feminine gay man, and guess who gets more hate?
SPEAKER_01: It's the feminine one.
SPEAKER_01: It's it's not because people hate the gayness, it's because people hate femininity.
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01: There is so much misogyny in the world that it bleeds over onto the men who are expressing their femininity.
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01: Because if you have a super, I don't know, masculine bear of a man, you know what I mean, and they're and they're gay, but they don't look like it, then they don't get any hate, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01: Because and it's just how it is, you know?
SPEAKER_01: It's only the people who are out there being feminine, being their true feminine self that get the hate, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01: But I think there is something so powerful about that.
SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't know about you, but I believe in like being a freaking punk, you know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_01: And like there is nothing more punk and more bad A than going out there and being yourself, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01: Yo, I've got I've got grown men in my comments complaining about me painting my nails.
SPEAKER_01: What kind of man would I be if I listened to you who was sitting there complaining online about my nails?
SPEAKER_01: What?
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm a grown man, I'm gonna do whatever I want to do, and if I want to paint my nails and wear a dress, I think that's pretty I think that's pretty freaking cool, you know?
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
SPEAKER_00: I love everything about it.
SPEAKER_00: The punk, I love the idea that realistically it's the patriarchy that's like feeding all the things, anti-queer behavior, misogyny, racism.
SPEAKER_00: It is it is all of the above.
SPEAKER_00: And I think that this would be a good time for us to talk about something lighthearted, if you will.
SPEAKER_00: So can you tell me what is bringing you joy right now?
SPEAKER_01: It's bringing me joy right now being on your podcast.
SPEAKER_00: Yay! Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, the school year is also wrapping up, so that's kind of cool.
SPEAKER_01: Uh, maybe we'll plan like a summer vacation.
SPEAKER_01: My family's always bringing me super, super amount of joy.
SPEAKER_01: My my son, who is actually peeking through the door right now.
SPEAKER_01: Wave, buddy, we're in the middle of something.
SPEAKER_01: Uh my family always, my son, Ashton, and my fiance eating the doll.
SPEAKER_01: For sure.
SPEAKER_01: My students always bring me joy.
SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm blessed to live the life I live.
SPEAKER_01: Love you, dude.
SPEAKER_00: Sorry.
SPEAKER_00: No, sorry, needed.
SPEAKER_00: I love it.
SPEAKER_00: I also am a parent and I do appreciate how boldly and loudly you say I love you to your child.
SPEAKER_00: I am also very intentional about that.
SPEAKER_00: I don't begrudge uh my parents or any parents from like the 80s and 90s and whatnot, but I feel like maybe like saying the words was like less common.
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
SPEAKER_00: Maybe that's just my experience, but I am very intentional about saying I love you every day.
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, my son's always like, why do you say that all the time?
SPEAKER_01: Like, because I feel it.
SPEAKER_01: I feel it and I have to say it, okay?
SPEAKER_01: Like, and sometimes I feel like I say I love you so much because maybe sometimes I want to hear it too, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00: As we round out our interview, I just wanted to leave everybody with your final message for queer educators who are listening.
SPEAKER_00: What do you think they need to hear right now?
SPEAKER_01: You are loved, you are valued, and you are needed.
SPEAKER_01: Please do not leave the educational space.
SPEAKER_01: Like, we need you.
SPEAKER_01: Um, probably more than ever.
SPEAKER_01: There are states right now getting rid of gay straight alliances, they are banning, you know, pride flags.
SPEAKER_01: There is an ongoing war against queerness happening, and those queer kids in your classrooms are probably feeling it too.
SPEAKER_01: So continue to make that space for them.
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for being a part of Queering Education.
SPEAKER_00: This is a Teaching Well Queer podcast.
SPEAKER_00: Take what you need from this conversation and bring it back into your classroom and your students.
SPEAKER_00: I'm Brian Stanton.
SPEAKER_00: Until next time, keep showing up.