WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.399 I don't want your kid to be gay. 00:00:02.560 --> 00:00:03.919 I don't want them to be lesbian. 00:00:04.000 --> 00:00:05.040 I don't want them to be trans. 00:00:05.200 --> 00:00:06.959 I want them to be happy. 00:00:10.720 --> 00:00:16.320 Welcome to Queering Education, where we challenge what school is and build what it should be. 00:00:16.480 --> 00:00:17.839 I'm Brian Stanton. 00:00:18.000 --> 00:00:26.000 This is a Teaching While Queer podcast about inclusive teaching, queer pedagogy, and showing up authentically in every classroom. 00:00:26.239 --> 00:00:28.399 Alright, let's do the work. 00:00:31.920 --> 00:00:36.320 Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of Queering Education. 00:00:36.479 --> 00:00:37.840 My name is Brian Stanton. 00:00:37.920 --> 00:00:38.560 I am your host. 00:00:38.719 --> 00:00:40.079 My pronouns are they, them. 00:00:40.479 --> 00:00:46.799 Today our guest is Christian Sherrod, who I found on Instagram and has been doing some really amazing work. 00:00:46.960 --> 00:00:50.719 Hey Christian, can you take a second to introduce yourself to those who are listening? 00:00:51.039 --> 00:00:52.560 My name is Christian Sherrod. 00:00:52.799 --> 00:00:55.039 I am a math teacher out of Los Angeles. 00:00:55.200 --> 00:01:00.320 My pronouns are he, him, and I've been teaching for about eight years now. 00:01:00.799 --> 00:01:16.079 Um probably most known for I don't know, doing SEL lessons with my class, centered mostly around just being a good person, which happens to include being kind towards LGBT people. 00:01:17.359 --> 00:01:20.719 Strange how kindness can be so controversial. 00:01:21.120 --> 00:01:21.760 Yeah, right? 00:01:21.840 --> 00:01:31.519 Like kindness, what and you know, kindness isn't an issue until you say kindness towards, I don't know, gay people or trans people, and then people lose their minds, right? 00:01:31.599 --> 00:01:38.159 It's like kindness shouldn't be, I don't know, exclusive. 00:01:38.239 --> 00:01:38.959 You know what I mean? 00:01:39.040 --> 00:01:41.359 It should be something that's very much inclusive. 00:01:41.760 --> 00:01:57.040 That's what I think is so funny about people who have an uproar about like everyone is welcome here, signs, um, or the fact that like the all lives matter gang disappears when it becomes a marginalized group that needs to have the focus for a moment. 00:01:57.359 --> 00:01:59.120 Yeah, it's it's really weird. 00:01:59.359 --> 00:02:12.319 I feel like maybe they feel excluded in some weird way, but like if I say, I don't know, I value a certain group of people, it doesn't mean I disvalue everyone else. 00:02:12.479 --> 00:02:13.199 You know what I mean? 00:02:13.280 --> 00:02:17.919 It's just like, hey, like, this certain group of people need some positivity and they need to be lifted up right now. 00:02:18.000 --> 00:02:20.319 And I think that's a good thing. 00:02:20.639 --> 00:02:21.280 Absolutely. 00:02:21.439 --> 00:02:31.759 It's it's crazy the scarcity mentality we have in the world that it it applies to everything, it's not just like resources or material things, it's like hope or kindness. 00:02:31.919 --> 00:02:33.199 You can only have so much. 00:02:33.280 --> 00:02:36.800 So if you're gonna be kind to everybody, then there's not enough kindness for me. 00:02:36.879 --> 00:02:46.800 It's just an interesting uh mindset that the world, like society has right now when it comes to everything being like not sustainable. 00:02:47.120 --> 00:02:52.319 But I honestly feel like kindness at minimum is one of the most sustainable things that we have out there. 00:02:52.639 --> 00:02:55.759 Yeah, it's definitely a renewable resource, you know. 00:02:56.319 --> 00:02:57.599 Yeah, absolutely. 00:02:57.840 --> 00:03:00.159 Let's talk a little bit about what got you into education. 00:03:00.319 --> 00:03:04.080 Did you always want to teach, or is this something that you came to when you were an adult? 00:03:04.560 --> 00:03:09.360 You know, as a kid, I honestly freaking hated school. 00:03:09.680 --> 00:03:12.960 I did not like it one little bit. 00:03:13.599 --> 00:03:16.479 Um, I do come from a long line of educators, though. 00:03:16.639 --> 00:03:20.080 Like my great-grandparents were teachers or principals. 00:03:20.639 --> 00:03:24.400 My aunties, my mom ended up teaching. 00:03:25.199 --> 00:03:29.520 It kinda it's kind of something that just fell into my lap when I graduated from school. 00:03:30.000 --> 00:03:39.120 So I graduated from the University of North Texas and I went to a job fair and I was applying to everywhere because at the time I was I was still living with my mom. 00:03:39.199 --> 00:03:41.360 I was like, yo, I gotta get a job and get the dick out of there. 00:03:41.439 --> 00:03:42.080 You know what I mean? 00:03:42.159 --> 00:03:51.520 Like so I applied to everywhere, and the first place that gave me a call back was a place called EF, like education first, I think. 00:03:52.000 --> 00:03:54.159 And they were like, hey, we got a position for you. 00:03:54.400 --> 00:03:55.280 I was like, hey, cool. 00:03:55.360 --> 00:03:58.159 And they were like, Do you mind teaching in China? 00:03:58.719 --> 00:03:59.680 I was like, you know what? 00:04:00.000 --> 00:04:03.120 I will do anything if it helps me get out of my mom's house right now. 00:04:03.280 --> 00:04:04.719 So yes, please. 00:04:05.439 --> 00:04:07.919 Uh I went and I taught in China for a while. 00:04:08.319 --> 00:04:13.199 And then after that I came home and I was a delivery driver for a while, and I was like, you know what? 00:04:13.599 --> 00:04:15.360 I really enjoy teaching in China. 00:04:15.439 --> 00:04:16.959 Why don't I do it here too? 00:04:17.439 --> 00:04:26.720 And I don't know if you how you got your certificate in Texas, but I got mine through the Alt Cert program, and at the time it was so incredibly easy. 00:04:26.800 --> 00:04:30.399 I think I got certified within six months or something. 00:04:30.560 --> 00:04:34.240 Like, a little too easy to be honest with you. 00:04:34.879 --> 00:04:44.079 But yeah, if you would have talked to my younger self and said, hey, you're gonna be a teacher, I probably would have given you the finger and told you to flip off. 00:04:44.160 --> 00:04:44.879 You know what I mean? 00:04:45.040 --> 00:04:46.160 Like, get out of here. 00:04:46.480 --> 00:05:18.319 Yeah, I also got an alternative teaching credential when I was living in Texas, and you know, I think that there's uh this like weird dichotomy that happened or some like judgment that was going on because like I couldn't even get a student teacher from places like Texas State or Texas Tech, even though I had been recognized by Texas Thesbians and I had been a teacher of the year for my district, but because I had an online alternative certification, I was like somehow lesser than it's wild. 00:05:18.560 --> 00:05:22.800 Yeah, education in a in general can be a bit pretentious, you know what I mean? 00:05:23.040 --> 00:05:35.360 And if I can say something a little controversial real quick, I think there might be a negative correlation between how well someone teaches and how much education they might have. 00:05:35.519 --> 00:05:42.399 Like, I know teachers who have doctorates who cannot command a classroom. 00:05:43.040 --> 00:05:46.079 They don't have good classroom management skills, you know what I mean? 00:05:46.160 --> 00:05:55.839 They've got the paper, you know what I mean, but like sometimes it feels like they have an air about them where it's like I have this paper and I'm I'm I'm better than, you know what I mean? 00:05:56.000 --> 00:06:06.560 But I have an alt cert, I have a bachelor's degree, and if you were to walk into my room, like there is a clear order to how I teach. 00:06:06.959 --> 00:06:09.199 The kids get it, they're engaged. 00:06:09.519 --> 00:06:12.959 So I don't know, you know what I mean? 00:06:13.040 --> 00:06:19.680 I I feel like a lot of times, like education can be a bit stuffy, you know? 00:06:20.000 --> 00:06:42.079 Yeah, it's funny, and I mean no disrespect to to folks, but I had this experience when I went from teaching in high school to teaching and working at a university, that sometimes folks were um observing me at the university level who had been teaching at a university for several years, but have never taken like a pedagogy course or never had to take a classroom management class. 00:06:42.319 --> 00:07:03.680 And so because my experience was different and um because I interacted with students differently, there were like things that were brought up in my my uh walkthroughs and whatnot that I was like, huh, this person doesn't actually know what they're talking about when it comes to these specific things. 00:07:03.839 --> 00:07:07.040 It it's wild, and again, I don't mean any disrespect. 00:07:07.199 --> 00:07:15.360 Like um, I think that going directly from your degrees into higher education is a fantastic route. 00:07:15.519 --> 00:07:28.879 And honestly, maybe I should have done that, but um you know, I've I've worked a lot as an educator, and and I do my best to make sure that my students, my students are getting what they need. 00:07:29.040 --> 00:07:31.680 Yeah, there's a lot of zit and get, especially in college. 00:07:31.839 --> 00:07:36.079 It's like they go there, they present their slides, they're like, here's the stuff, and then they get out of there. 00:07:36.240 --> 00:07:43.120 But I don't know, in high school and stuff like that, I hate being observed by somebody that I know I teach better than. 00:07:43.360 --> 00:07:43.920 You know what I mean? 00:07:44.000 --> 00:07:46.639 I'm like, oh, like you're gonna come in here and you're gonna judge my teaching. 00:07:46.800 --> 00:07:48.720 Let me see you run this classroom better. 00:07:48.800 --> 00:07:49.759 You know what I mean? 00:07:50.000 --> 00:08:04.000 And do you ever feel like it's always like I don't know how many people you have in your room during your observations, but sometimes I have a ton of people in there, like four or five, and afterwards it's always like a gotcha moment. 00:08:04.079 --> 00:08:07.040 It's like who can point out the biggest flaw in the lesson? 00:08:07.120 --> 00:08:11.439 And like sometimes you just gotta say it's a good lesson and let people have their flowers. 00:08:11.519 --> 00:08:14.319 It doesn't have to be a gotcha moment, you know? 00:08:14.720 --> 00:08:22.399 Yeah, I've only ever had one person observing me at a time, but I really think about that gotcha moment. 00:08:22.639 --> 00:08:44.559 I recently did a PD at my school that I'm currently at, and one of the things we were looking at as arts educators was like, if we watch our students perform or we listen to our students rehearse, like, how much feedback can we get out of that three-minute song or uh scene that there's that our students are doing? 00:08:44.639 --> 00:09:00.879 And it's like we were watching videos, and like the person who taught the class was getting like 20 pieces of feedback by watching this three-minute video, and the people who were observing it who were just other arts educators were getting like 11 to 15 pieces of feedback. 00:09:00.960 --> 00:09:06.799 And I think the idea is that the more feedback we can give to our students, the more we'll be able to adjust. 00:09:07.039 --> 00:09:10.320 And I think about this from a theater perspective, that makes perfect sense, right? 00:09:10.399 --> 00:09:21.200 That's why we have stage managers that take notes to keep things going, but at the same time, like from the educational standpoint, I would prefer to work on quality versus the quantity of feedback. 00:09:21.519 --> 00:09:27.840 Absolutely, the quality aspect of it, and then also like you're trying to lift each other up and build confidence as well. 00:09:28.000 --> 00:09:35.360 So, like, knowing when to like hold your tongue and let somebody, I don't know, have their moment is okay, you know. 00:09:35.519 --> 00:09:40.399 Like, sometimes the feedback could just be like, hey, you did a phenomenal job. 00:09:41.519 --> 00:09:49.120 So you have a very large following online and are a very vocal advocate for inclusive education. 00:09:49.360 --> 00:09:59.840 And I've seen some videos where you have to like field these questions as an ally, um, where oftentimes that you're misidentified as somebody who is a member of the community. 00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:09.279 For instance, I saw a um comment that you commented on um that was like, why did you decide to be trans? 00:10:10.000 --> 00:10:14.720 And um the reality is that in fact you are not. 00:10:14.879 --> 00:10:24.639 And so what was what is it like for you to be so vocal and public about your support of inclusive education? 00:10:25.200 --> 00:10:35.759 Well, I do advocate quite a bit, but being a teacher in Los Angeles, like people are a little bit more open-minded, especially like the people at my school. 00:10:36.159 --> 00:10:44.799 Uh, I only really get crazy questions from like people online, like saying, like, they just assume that because I have a trans wife that I want all the kids to be trans. 00:10:44.960 --> 00:10:48.399 I'm like, yo, I don't want your kid to be gay. 00:10:48.559 --> 00:10:51.039 I don't want them to be lesbian, I don't want them to be trans. 00:10:51.200 --> 00:10:52.399 I want them to be happy. 00:10:52.720 --> 00:10:55.360 The ones who are, I want them to be included. 00:10:55.679 --> 00:10:58.639 It's not like I want to go out and like convert everybody. 00:10:58.720 --> 00:11:02.720 I don't keep a pair of cash grading scissors in my drawer, you know what I mean? 00:11:02.799 --> 00:11:06.240 Like I'm not doing gender reassignment surgery during my prep. 00:11:06.320 --> 00:11:06.879 You know what I mean? 00:11:06.960 --> 00:11:09.120 I'm grading papers and stuff. 00:11:09.679 --> 00:11:16.000 My entire goal is to have an inclusive classroom where we can have fun, you know what I mean? 00:11:16.159 --> 00:11:26.320 Like kids get along and play together, you know, like it's not really that deep, but people try and make it that way. 00:11:26.799 --> 00:11:33.759 I know I I had a video that was like one of my most controversial where we were talking about transness. 00:11:33.919 --> 00:11:36.559 It was uh trans visibility day, I think, or something. 00:11:36.879 --> 00:11:43.759 And as kids walked in, I gave them a paper all crumpled up, and it had a gender on there, right? 00:11:44.879 --> 00:11:51.279 I had um I had boy, girl, and non-binary, right? 00:11:51.519 --> 00:12:01.279 And I gave them a piece of paper and I had him open it up, and I said, Who in here identifies with the gender they were assigned? 00:12:02.000 --> 00:12:03.039 A few people did. 00:12:03.679 --> 00:12:04.399 Who doesn't? 00:12:04.720 --> 00:12:05.759 A lot of people don't. 00:12:05.919 --> 00:12:08.879 And I said, that is exactly how trans people feel. 00:12:09.519 --> 00:12:12.720 I say, you're assigned something, you know what I mean? 00:12:12.799 --> 00:12:18.000 Like you're born and like you don't really get to choose your gender. 00:12:18.480 --> 00:12:20.879 And sometimes you might not feel like that, you know what I mean? 00:12:20.960 --> 00:12:33.840 And and I feel like putting it in that perspective, having them live it, even if only for a few minutes, where they looked at this gender and said, This is not me, I feel like help them understand trans people a little bit better. 00:12:34.080 --> 00:12:40.240 But people online will see that and say, teacher assigns children's gender for homework, blah blah blah. 00:12:40.399 --> 00:12:44.080 No, it was it was to put it in perspective for a few minutes, you know? 00:12:44.480 --> 00:12:45.279 Absolutely. 00:12:45.440 --> 00:13:06.480 I teach theater and I find that people will have a problem with like a piece of theater that we're reading or a piece of theater that we're producing because there's like one instance of queerness in it when in fact the whole piece has a bigger message. 00:13:06.799 --> 00:13:11.600 To be fair though, hasn't theater always been kind of queer? 00:13:11.759 --> 00:13:20.720 There's always been some type of cross-dressing and guys playing girls, girls playing guys, and it's it's always supposed to be campy and fun. 00:13:20.799 --> 00:13:21.440 You know what I mean? 00:13:21.679 --> 00:13:25.039 What is theater without a little queerness? 00:13:25.759 --> 00:13:26.960 Yeah, absolutely. 00:13:27.120 --> 00:13:31.519 I mean, there have been men dressing as women and and vice versa for years. 00:13:31.600 --> 00:13:43.840 And I think even back to like opera, there are so many like pants roles for females where females are playing male characters in the operatic world, and that's you know, centuries old. 00:13:44.320 --> 00:13:53.679 Um it's just an art form that isn't innately is innately queer, but a lot of people will be like, this isn't a part of your curriculum. 00:13:53.759 --> 00:13:55.840 You shouldn't be teaching this in your class. 00:13:56.000 --> 00:14:06.000 And so I know that you have these conversations online and you're very vocal about like these lessons that you have with your students, especially when it comes to like boundaries and whatnot. 00:14:06.080 --> 00:14:11.679 And so I wanted to know, you know, how does that get incorporated into your daily lessons? 00:14:12.240 --> 00:14:23.919 So I teach currently algebra one to freshmen and eight pre-calculus to seniors, but we also have a period on Mondays, which is called advisory, and that's usually when I teach. 00:14:24.399 --> 00:14:30.399 It's not like I'm, I don't know, teaching complex polar coordinates and I take a break and I say, All right, everybody, we're gonna talk about gender now. 00:14:30.480 --> 00:14:32.799 Like it's not like that, you know? 00:14:33.360 --> 00:14:40.159 There's SEL lessons that happen, and sometimes I don't feel like it's enough. 00:14:40.480 --> 00:14:50.480 And I'll make my own five, ten-minute presentation just to make sure that I don't know, we are being kind or inclusive. 00:14:51.039 --> 00:14:57.600 And a lot of times the things that I'm teaching about is something that is culturally relevant at the time. 00:14:58.320 --> 00:15:10.799 For example, um, the other day I did a lesson on the boundaries between teachers and students because it's been in the news a lot, you know what I mean, with Hailey Beck. 00:15:11.919 --> 00:15:22.399 Everybody's been talking about Hayley Beck and like how weird she was, and I was like, yo, everything about that was weird, and it's weird that it didn't come about sooner, you know what I mean? 00:15:22.639 --> 00:15:33.919 And teachers are in a position of trust, they're in a position of power, and sometimes students don't understand that sometimes what their teacher might be doing is kind of weird. 00:15:34.000 --> 00:15:39.200 So I was like, hey, I'm gonna put together a five-minute presentation on boundaries. 00:15:39.519 --> 00:15:47.200 Yeah, you had a recent video that was about like, should my teacher be asking for my personal phone number? 00:15:47.519 --> 00:15:50.240 No, and I was like, oh, absolutely. 00:15:50.399 --> 00:15:55.200 I need boundaries, I don't need you calling me, I don't want your parents calling me. 00:15:55.360 --> 00:15:56.480 I don't need that. 00:15:56.639 --> 00:16:02.480 I will use Remind, I will use other apps for that, but we are not giving out my personal phone number. 00:16:02.799 --> 00:16:09.919 You know, I have known a few teachers who don't mind giving out their number. 00:16:10.480 --> 00:16:14.320 And I think it's a little I think it's a little weird. 00:16:14.480 --> 00:16:19.279 And they'll be like, oh yeah, you know, like coach so-and-so, you know, just for the athletes, you know what I mean? 00:16:19.360 --> 00:16:24.960 I'm like, your coach can also use, I don't know, Google Voice or something a little bit more professional. 00:16:25.279 --> 00:16:28.480 Shouldn't have a closed line of communication with a minor at all. 00:16:28.639 --> 00:16:31.120 Like it's weird, you know what I mean? 00:16:31.360 --> 00:16:40.960 Like Yeah, I think about the idea that we shouldn't be behind closed doors with like individual students and whatnot. 00:16:41.120 --> 00:16:44.720 That's like been drilled into my head through like ethics trainings and whatnot. 00:16:44.960 --> 00:16:54.879 And so I think that same thing applies when we're talking about digital communication, that this one-on-one communication is really not the best route to go. 00:16:55.200 --> 00:17:14.400 And so, like, yes, we need to like allow for students to be able to confide in us, but at the same time, like we shouldn't be putting ourselves in situations where we are uh the only person that is privy to a conversation. 00:17:14.640 --> 00:17:34.079 Now, if a student if a student needs like to confide or something like after class, like, hey, like I've really been going through something, that's a lot different, and I feel like it's not crossing the line until there's that extra conversation with I don't know, outside of school. 00:17:34.319 --> 00:17:40.160 Because it is within our our scope to help our students emotionally sometimes. 00:17:40.240 --> 00:17:48.319 You know, they're going through big changes in their life, and sometimes they do need someone to talk to, but you don't need to do it in private. 00:17:48.559 --> 00:17:54.720 You know, you don't need to do it via Snapchat, especially, you know. 00:17:55.359 --> 00:17:56.960 Oh, for sure. 00:17:57.200 --> 00:18:06.319 I think it's crazy when students find like teachers' Snapchats, and I would never like use Snapchat as like a a tool to communicate with my students. 00:18:06.559 --> 00:18:13.680 And it's like funny because like I won't even post like a shirtless selfie. 00:18:13.759 --> 00:18:18.480 Like Snapchat has a little bit different intent than on than other things. 00:18:18.640 --> 00:18:21.839 So like my Instagram doesn't even have like that shirtless selfie vibe. 00:18:22.079 --> 00:18:23.279 I do on my Instagram. 00:18:23.440 --> 00:18:26.000 Hey, dude, like I I'm 30 years old. 00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:29.519 I'm never gonna be as young as and in shape, you know what I mean? 00:18:29.599 --> 00:18:32.799 Like I definitely post shirtless photos, yeah. 00:18:33.200 --> 00:18:54.319 Yeah, no, and I'm not saying that there's something wrong with like a shirtless selfie or something like that, but I do think a lot about like the intent behind a selfie, and sometimes, you know, them Snapchat selfies or you know, bathroom mirror selfies that are you know given a little bit more than what you would expect, you know, to see from a teacher on Instagram. 00:18:54.640 --> 00:18:59.279 I I I go to the gym a lot, I'm proud of myself, I'm proud of my body, you know what I mean? 00:18:59.440 --> 00:19:06.000 And I have never gotten anything weird from a student from that type of like picture. 00:19:06.160 --> 00:19:10.319 The only thing a student's ever said, and I've had a few of them, and they're like, yo, Mr. 00:19:10.400 --> 00:19:11.519 Russ, what's your ab routine? 00:19:11.599 --> 00:19:11.920 And that's it. 00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:12.480 You know what I mean? 00:19:12.559 --> 00:19:17.440 They're asking for like they're asking for for fitness advice, they're not being weird, you know. 00:19:17.680 --> 00:19:27.279 So where do you think where do you think the line is for educators with public accounts as far as what they can or should post? 00:19:27.839 --> 00:19:42.640 Like this is such a tricky question because when I first started teaching, I think the biggest thing that I struggled with was this idea that I was no longer like a person, I am a teacher. 00:19:43.039 --> 00:19:47.680 And so that put me into the space of like role model. 00:19:48.640 --> 00:19:59.519 And then it's like I lost a lot of myself because I was constantly thinking about like who's watching and what's going on. 00:19:59.839 --> 00:20:13.039 And I think that teachers should be allowed to be adults on social media, and you should allow be allowed to have your life, and you should be allowed to do what you like on your social media. 00:20:13.279 --> 00:20:36.000 You won't find me, you know, doing things that would be considered like having a being a bad influence, but like I do have, you know, a shirtless selfie of myself on vacation, like on the beach, and I do have um pictures of myself, you know, where I'm dancing and whatnot. 00:20:36.160 --> 00:20:41.279 And I think that it is okay for us to live our lives. 00:20:41.680 --> 00:20:51.440 Yeah, a lot of it is, and I get called a bad influence all the time because I don't know, I'll be silly, I'll put on a dress, I'll do this, I'll do that. 00:20:51.519 --> 00:21:02.319 But the thing is, you will never see me post anything about me drinking, about me smoking, um, gambling, hate gambling. 00:21:02.480 --> 00:21:10.880 Yo, there's gambling companies who reach out to me all the time offering me thousands of dollars, and they know I'm a teacher. 00:21:11.279 --> 00:21:17.200 They know I have a following of children, and they're trying to get me to push that heck no, you know what I mean? 00:21:17.839 --> 00:21:25.759 The the craziest thing you're gonna see on my page is like every now and then me and my girlfriend will will, you know, joke around or like, you know what I mean? 00:21:25.839 --> 00:21:29.440 But it's never anything like crazy, you know? 00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:37.119 Especially like as my platform has grown too, I don't just have people looking at me in my classroom. 00:21:38.319 --> 00:21:40.960 I go out and I party, for sure, you know what I mean? 00:21:41.039 --> 00:21:45.440 Like, and I try to be as responsible as I can, but like you know, I'll have people come up to me and and be like, oh, Mr. 00:21:45.519 --> 00:21:45.920 Sherrod. 00:21:46.079 --> 00:21:49.440 And I'm like thinking in my head, I'm like, have I been acting correctly? 00:21:49.680 --> 00:21:53.920 Have I been have I been have I been good for the past ten minutes while this person's been looking at me? 00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:59.359 Like, you know, like That's funny, like 00:22:01.279 --> 00:22:09.200 It's like that grocery store moment where like somebody walks up to you and you're like at the grocery store and you're like, oh god, was I just walking down like a hill? 00:22:09.680 --> 00:22:19.119 But all that stuff aside, the the role model and whatnot, the work that you do and to do it in such a public setting is such an amazing thing. 00:22:19.279 --> 00:22:37.759 And I wonder, like, how you approach making these topics like consent and boundaries and whatnot accessible to your students and and and then translate that into being accessible for people on the internet. 00:22:38.240 --> 00:22:44.880 I try and boil down any topic that is important as much as possible. 00:22:45.200 --> 00:22:45.759 You know what I mean? 00:22:46.160 --> 00:22:52.079 Consent doesn't have to be a crazy biological or graphic thing, you know what I mean? 00:22:52.799 --> 00:22:53.920 Boil it down to a hub. 00:22:54.400 --> 00:22:56.400 Boil it down to like holding a hand. 00:22:57.279 --> 00:22:59.680 All that stuff requires consent. 00:23:00.720 --> 00:23:09.039 So when I'm thinking about the lessons for my son, I'm thinking about how can I do this in the most simple terms possible for him to get it. 00:23:09.279 --> 00:23:09.920 You know what I mean? 00:23:10.160 --> 00:23:13.279 The language that I use, the scenarios that I use, stuff like that. 00:23:13.359 --> 00:23:15.279 And the same thing for my students too. 00:23:15.839 --> 00:23:21.359 I I instead of boiling it down, you know what I mean, I'll take the the bare concept and I'll and I'll bring it up. 00:23:21.519 --> 00:23:23.599 I'll bring it up to the high school level, you know what I mean? 00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:27.759 And consent is so incredibly important. 00:23:27.839 --> 00:23:34.559 And I wish that more men would have those conversations with their sons. 00:23:35.440 --> 00:23:41.519 Um I feel like there's a lack of communication in general between fathers and their sons. 00:23:41.759 --> 00:23:45.920 And I think these are very important topics to have, like conversations to have. 00:23:47.119 --> 00:23:56.799 And because so many people are missing those conversations with their fathers, that's why I try and do it during class, doing it during SEO, you know? 00:23:57.119 --> 00:24:03.599 And the conversations that I put out there online aren't aren't just for clout, you know what I mean? 00:24:03.759 --> 00:24:07.759 Like it's so that other people have the same conversations. 00:24:08.160 --> 00:24:11.759 See my see my bare bones presentation. 00:24:12.160 --> 00:24:14.720 Take it and ask the same questions to your kid. 00:24:14.960 --> 00:24:17.680 Ask the same questions to your class, you know. 00:24:46.960 --> 00:24:57.519 Yeah, I think it's interesting, like as a parent and a teacher right now, observing what I see happening in schools, and sometimes these conversations are hard and they're not happening at home. 00:24:57.599 --> 00:25:02.480 So what I love is that you bring them to, you know, parental audiences. 00:25:03.119 --> 00:25:20.720 But that aside, I was watching a reel earlier that was talking about like it was a teacher's perspective who would witness like putting grades on an app, like a portal or an app where parents could find them and students can find them without talking to the teacher. 00:25:20.960 --> 00:25:27.200 And when we used to have paper grade books, like the teacher was the source. 00:25:27.519 --> 00:25:34.559 And so students would have to come talk to their teachers to find out how their grades were doing and like how to get, you know, what they needed to improve on. 00:25:34.640 --> 00:25:47.839 And there was this dialogue that was happening, and now things have shifted because of that, where the dialogue is no longer from the student perspective, but like parents getting on teachers about like, why is my kid's grade like this? 00:25:48.079 --> 00:25:55.119 And and having so much access to what's happening at school that like it's creating a huge problem. 00:25:55.759 --> 00:26:03.039 Um, and it's creating a breakdown in the relationship between the teacher and the student. 00:26:03.359 --> 00:26:04.000 Yeah. 00:26:04.400 --> 00:26:05.200 It's very true. 00:26:05.359 --> 00:26:11.680 Like, students in general these days um are a bit unruly. 00:26:11.839 --> 00:26:12.319 You know what I mean? 00:26:12.400 --> 00:26:17.279 The students themselves, like a lot of yo, there's students who are like, yo, I don't even listen to my mom. 00:26:17.359 --> 00:26:19.119 Why would I listen to you? 00:26:19.359 --> 00:26:20.079 You know what I mean? 00:26:20.480 --> 00:26:23.359 It's like what what do you what do you say to that? 00:26:23.440 --> 00:26:24.079 You know what I mean? 00:26:24.160 --> 00:26:29.279 And how do you feel how do you feel respect is in general towards queer teachers? 00:26:29.359 --> 00:26:33.440 Do you think do you think it's less or more from the students? 00:26:33.519 --> 00:26:38.880 Like, how do you I think that it's a mixed bag, to be honest. 00:26:39.039 --> 00:27:03.839 Uh, with some students, the queer teacher is gonna have a lot more respect and they're gonna be the teacher that you go to, and then there's gonna be other students uh where you don't have a strong relationship, but the thing I find pretty consistently, at least in my experience for the most part, is that I don't deal with a lot of anti-queer behavior from the students themselves. 00:27:04.160 --> 00:27:07.920 Most of that comes from parents and community members and whatnot. 00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:09.839 It's not really the kids. 00:27:10.079 --> 00:27:14.000 And I've heard from quite a few people that same sentiment. 00:27:14.400 --> 00:27:33.839 There have been instances in interviews where I've heard about people uh who have, you know, had anti-queer attacks happen up from a student, but they're really few and far between compared to the amount of adults who are attacking queer people, and they're not even going after just queer teachers, they're going after queer students too. 00:27:34.079 --> 00:27:40.960 And this takes me back to like that idea that I was talking about with the reel earlier about like, you know, parent portals and whatnot. 00:27:41.039 --> 00:27:49.119 Like, parents think that they can micromanage everything that's happening at school and they're constantly like on you about like when are you gonna get this graded? 00:27:49.279 --> 00:27:54.079 Because they know that their kid turned something in, or their kid told them that they turned something in. 00:27:54.319 --> 00:28:05.279 Uh, but albeit it was probably late, and now it has become your personal problem to grade this late work that the student has has turned in. 00:28:05.440 --> 00:28:17.279 But it's it's been pretty wild how adults treat other adults, um, you know, when it comes to teaching, because I can't imagine my parents doing that. 00:28:17.599 --> 00:28:20.079 We've we've turned into a customer service job. 00:28:20.559 --> 00:28:22.880 We're no longer we're no longer education. 00:28:23.119 --> 00:28:31.119 Like, we are a customer service job, and like the the parents are the ones calling in and complaining and trying to make change from the outside. 00:28:31.359 --> 00:28:36.000 Some of the admin that I love the best are the ones that know how to handle those parents. 00:28:36.319 --> 00:28:39.119 Like, ma'am, like we are taking care of stuff at school. 00:28:39.680 --> 00:28:42.480 We're worried about school, you worry about home because your kid needs it. 00:28:42.559 --> 00:28:43.359 You know what I mean? 00:28:43.440 --> 00:28:54.160 Like, and the thing that I've noticed most about like disrespect towards queer people is, especially with like gayness, right? 00:28:55.039 --> 00:29:00.480 Take a masculine gay man and a feminine gay man, and guess who gets more hate? 00:29:01.759 --> 00:29:02.799 It's the feminine one. 00:29:02.880 --> 00:29:08.079 It's it's not because people hate the gayness, it's because people hate femininity. 00:29:08.480 --> 00:29:09.200 You know what I mean? 00:29:09.519 --> 00:29:15.200 There is so much misogyny in the world that it bleeds over onto the men who are expressing their femininity. 00:29:15.440 --> 00:29:16.160 You know what I mean? 00:29:16.480 --> 00:29:26.799 Because if you have a super, I don't know, masculine bear of a man, you know what I mean, and they're and they're gay, but they don't look like it, then they don't get any hate, you know what I mean? 00:29:26.960 --> 00:29:29.519 Because and it's just how it is, you know? 00:29:29.759 --> 00:29:36.799 It's only the people who are out there being feminine, being their true feminine self that get the hate, you know what I mean? 00:29:36.880 --> 00:29:39.200 But I think there is something so powerful about that. 00:29:39.440 --> 00:29:44.160 Like, I don't know about you, but I believe in like being a freaking punk, you know what I'm saying? 00:29:44.240 --> 00:29:50.559 And like there is nothing more punk and more bad A than going out there and being yourself, you know what I mean? 00:29:50.799 --> 00:29:56.079 Yo, I've got I've got grown men in my comments complaining about me painting my nails. 00:29:56.319 --> 00:30:03.839 What kind of man would I be if I listened to you who was sitting there complaining online about my nails? 00:30:05.119 --> 00:30:05.680 What? 00:30:05.920 --> 00:30:06.799 You know what I mean? 00:30:06.960 --> 00:30:14.880 Like, I'm a grown man, I'm gonna do whatever I want to do, and if I want to paint my nails and wear a dress, I think that's pretty I think that's pretty freaking cool, you know? 00:30:15.119 --> 00:30:15.599 I love that. 00:30:15.759 --> 00:30:16.640 I love everything about it. 00:30:16.799 --> 00:30:29.119 The punk, I love the idea that realistically it's the patriarchy that's like feeding all the things, anti-queer behavior, misogyny, racism. 00:30:29.359 --> 00:30:32.000 It is it is all of the above. 00:30:32.480 --> 00:30:40.240 And I think that this would be a good time for us to talk about something lighthearted, if you will. 00:30:40.559 --> 00:30:44.640 So can you tell me what is bringing you joy right now? 00:30:45.119 --> 00:30:47.440 It's bringing me joy right now being on your podcast. 00:30:47.680 --> 00:30:49.440 Yay! Thank you so much. 00:30:50.160 --> 00:30:53.759 Um, you know, the school year is also wrapping up, so that's kind of cool. 00:30:53.839 --> 00:30:56.160 Uh, maybe we'll plan like a summer vacation. 00:30:56.319 --> 00:31:00.480 My family's always bringing me super, super amount of joy. 00:31:00.720 --> 00:31:04.079 My my son, who is actually peeking through the door right now. 00:31:05.839 --> 00:31:08.160 Wave, buddy, we're in the middle of something. 00:31:10.400 --> 00:31:15.039 Uh my family always, my son, Ashton, and my fiance eating the doll. 00:31:15.279 --> 00:31:15.599 For sure. 00:31:15.759 --> 00:31:17.200 My students always bring me joy. 00:31:17.359 --> 00:31:19.839 You know, I'm blessed to live the life I live. 00:31:20.960 --> 00:31:21.680 Love you, dude. 00:31:21.759 --> 00:31:22.640 Love you, dude. 00:31:24.880 --> 00:31:25.359 Sorry. 00:31:25.680 --> 00:31:26.880 No, sorry, needed. 00:31:27.039 --> 00:31:27.680 I love it. 00:31:28.000 --> 00:31:35.759 I also am a parent and I do appreciate how boldly and loudly you say I love you to your child. 00:31:35.920 --> 00:31:38.160 I am also very intentional about that. 00:31:38.400 --> 00:31:48.960 I don't begrudge uh my parents or any parents from like the 80s and 90s and whatnot, but I feel like maybe like saying the words was like less common. 00:31:49.119 --> 00:31:49.759 I don't know. 00:31:49.920 --> 00:31:54.640 Maybe that's just my experience, but I am very intentional about saying I love you every day. 00:31:54.880 --> 00:31:55.359 Oh yeah. 00:31:55.599 --> 00:31:58.240 Yeah, my son's always like, why do you say that all the time? 00:31:58.400 --> 00:31:59.839 Like, because I feel it. 00:32:00.240 --> 00:32:02.079 I feel it and I have to say it, okay? 00:32:02.240 --> 00:32:10.000 Like, and sometimes I feel like I say I love you so much because maybe sometimes I want to hear it too, you know what I mean? 00:32:12.400 --> 00:32:13.519 Absolutely. 00:32:13.759 --> 00:32:21.920 As we round out our interview, I just wanted to leave everybody with your final message for queer educators who are listening. 00:32:22.079 --> 00:32:24.400 What do you think they need to hear right now? 00:32:24.799 --> 00:32:29.599 You are loved, you are valued, and you are needed. 00:32:30.240 --> 00:32:32.799 Please do not leave the educational space. 00:32:32.960 --> 00:32:34.400 Like, we need you. 00:32:34.799 --> 00:32:36.880 Um, probably more than ever. 00:32:37.119 --> 00:32:44.720 There are states right now getting rid of gay straight alliances, they are banning, you know, pride flags. 00:32:44.880 --> 00:32:54.640 There is an ongoing war against queerness happening, and those queer kids in your classrooms are probably feeling it too. 00:32:54.960 --> 00:32:57.519 So continue to make that space for them. 00:33:01.279 --> 00:33:04.079 Thank you for being a part of Queering Education. 00:33:04.240 --> 00:33:06.640 This is a Teaching Well Queer podcast. 00:33:06.799 --> 00:33:11.839 Take what you need from this conversation and bring it back into your classroom and your students. 00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:13.519 I'm Brian Stanton. 00:33:13.680 --> 00:33:16.480 Until next time, keep showing up.