WEBVTT 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:00.160 Mr. 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:02.479 Hood, I'm sorry I'm interrupting your lunch. 00:00:02.479 --> 00:00:04.240 I was like, oh no, it's no big deal. 00:00:04.240 --> 00:00:04.799 You're fine. 00:00:04.799 --> 00:00:05.679 And yeah. 00:00:05.679 --> 00:00:13.439 He said, I just came to you first because honestly, you're kind of like my father figure, and this is the only space I really feel safe at. 00:00:17.199 --> 00:00:22.800 Welcome to Queering Education, where we challenge what school is and build what it should be. 00:00:22.800 --> 00:00:24.320 I'm Brian Stanton. 00:00:24.320 --> 00:00:32.479 This is a Teaching Well Queer podcast about inclusive teaching, queer pedagogy, and showing up authentically in every classroom. 00:00:32.479 --> 00:00:34.880 Alright, let's do the work. 00:00:34.880 --> 00:00:43.840 Hello everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Queering Education. 00:00:43.840 --> 00:00:45.600 I am your host, Brian Stanton. 00:00:45.600 --> 00:00:46.799 My pronouns are they, them. 00:00:46.799 --> 00:00:49.600 Today I have with me the lovely Stephen Hoda. 00:00:49.600 --> 00:00:51.039 Hi, Steven, how are you doing? 00:00:51.359 --> 00:00:51.840 Hello. 00:00:52.159 --> 00:00:54.479 I know we're gonna get along famously. 00:00:54.479 --> 00:00:58.960 I not gonna lie, tend to try to charm people. 00:00:58.960 --> 00:01:01.359 So it's working. 00:01:01.359 --> 00:01:02.079 Noted. 00:01:02.079 --> 00:01:04.319 I am very susceptible to flattery. 00:01:04.319 --> 00:01:05.280 Oh, flattery. 00:01:05.280 --> 00:01:07.680 Everywhere, right? 00:01:08.079 --> 00:01:09.519 Everywhere I start. 00:01:09.519 --> 00:01:11.359 That's one of the first things I say. 00:01:11.359 --> 00:01:12.319 You know, I am Mr. 00:01:12.319 --> 00:01:12.719 Hoda. 00:01:12.719 --> 00:01:18.640 This is, you know, seventh grade science, and I am very susceptible to flattery. 00:01:19.040 --> 00:01:19.920 I love that. 00:01:19.920 --> 00:01:23.200 You have already started the process of what I was gonna ask you. 00:01:23.200 --> 00:01:26.799 So please take a moment and introduce yourself to everybody who's listening. 00:01:27.200 --> 00:01:27.920 Absolutely. 00:01:27.920 --> 00:01:30.000 So I am Stephen Hoda. 00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:38.400 I live in Portland, Oregon, um, City of Roses, and I teach seventh grade science. 00:01:38.400 --> 00:01:45.599 As uh next year, I now teach sixth grade social studies too, which I am really excited about. 00:01:45.599 --> 00:01:47.920 And but I've also taught mythology. 00:01:47.920 --> 00:01:52.400 As I'm saying it out loud, I'm realizing how weird of a combination all of this is. 00:01:52.400 --> 00:01:53.439 But you know what? 00:01:53.439 --> 00:01:56.079 I love what I do, and I love my population. 00:01:56.079 --> 00:02:01.439 I'm just really, you know, I'm really enthusiastic about the community I get to work with. 00:02:01.439 --> 00:02:04.319 So yeah, pretty happy about it. 00:02:04.560 --> 00:02:09.280 I have a bachelor's degree in opera, a master's degree in legal studies, and a master's degree in theater. 00:02:09.280 --> 00:02:12.719 Like you got weird routes are where it's at. 00:02:12.719 --> 00:02:27.599 But also, I'm not gonna lie, teaching mythology and then going to teach sixth grade social studies kind of seems like a trax because a lot of what I saw in the curriculum for my sixth graders last year was like things that like ancient civilizations and whatnot. 00:02:27.599 --> 00:02:30.560 And I think that mythology kind of fits right in that realm. 00:02:30.960 --> 00:02:46.960 Yeah, I you know, I feel like recently, and I haven't had the opportunity to look into it yet, but I I am under the impression that in the past sixth grade involved like ancient studies, but I feel like there might have been some kind of change recently. 00:02:46.960 --> 00:03:00.159 I I'm not sure, but uh assuming that it is as it has been, um, I'm very much looking forward to getting to teach students about the ancient world, specifically the Greco-Roman world. 00:03:00.159 --> 00:03:03.759 That's what my background is in, that's where my passion is. 00:03:03.759 --> 00:03:11.599 I mean, I advocated for so long to get to teach mythology, and it was such a huge success. 00:03:11.599 --> 00:03:19.599 Um, I I only didn't get to continue it just because of uh budget and availability, and you know how that goes. 00:03:19.599 --> 00:03:24.479 But um, and also just because as fate would have it, they need a science teacher. 00:03:24.479 --> 00:03:28.000 Um, but mythology, you know, maybe not so. 00:03:28.000 --> 00:03:31.919 It was very, very successful. 00:03:31.919 --> 00:03:37.360 And actually, I uh it kind of became this thing where it's like Mr. 00:03:37.360 --> 00:03:41.759 Hoda's myth kids, and we just keep doing things related to mythology. 00:03:41.759 --> 00:03:55.439 And in fact, um I'm doing my first EF tour in a couple of years for and we're and it's all like the kids who have signed up so far are those original sixth grade um mythology students. 00:03:55.439 --> 00:04:06.240 I'll have them as 10th graders at that point, but we're going to Athens and Rome and Delphi and uh Pompeii, and I'm really, really looking forward to that. 00:04:06.639 --> 00:04:08.319 Okay, side question. 00:04:08.319 --> 00:04:11.439 How are we feeling about the Odyssey coming out next week? 00:04:11.759 --> 00:04:13.520 I wrote an article about it. 00:04:13.840 --> 00:04:15.039 No way, that's crazy. 00:04:15.439 --> 00:04:39.519 We were just talking about how um how like in summer mode, um you know, like all the places your brain goes, and I have been, you know, obviously spending a lot of time uh on social media and um you know just kind of watching the the feedback I'm seeing about certain casting choices. 00:04:39.519 --> 00:04:59.519 Um and um I sat down because uh one of the things is uh for my students, I I have like the you know, I have a teacher Instagram naturally, and I've noticed I've started to post a lot about mythology on my teacher Instagram, just because a lot of those kids follow it. 00:04:59.519 --> 00:05:07.600 And I I went to write something just like a an Instagram post about how much I love Pita. 00:05:07.600 --> 00:05:15.040 I, you know, I actually as much as I do love her and I like her, I don't know that I say her last name correctly, and I don't know that I've ever heard it said. 00:05:15.040 --> 00:05:16.959 So I'm gonna say Nyango. 00:05:16.959 --> 00:05:18.959 I believe that's how it's set. 00:05:18.959 --> 00:05:39.279 But I was writing a little caption about how much I adored her and how she is a perfect choice uh for Helen of Troy, and it turned into an article, and it's gonna be a it's actually a three-parter that I'm writing about how, like I said, basically she's just an excellent choice for Helen of Troy. 00:05:39.279 --> 00:05:40.480 That's so cool. 00:05:40.480 --> 00:05:49.600 Yeah, hang out with kids outside of school without parents, but uh we're meeting as kind of like a little group to go see the Odyssey. 00:05:49.839 --> 00:05:50.720 That's awesome. 00:05:50.720 --> 00:05:53.279 Um, there's a couple of things that strike me about that. 00:05:53.279 --> 00:06:42.959 One, I I am so intrigued that not intrigued, but like it's becoming blatantly obvious to me how the whitewashing of history has impacted people's understanding of the world because I think about the fact that uh these places still exist and the people who exist in these spaces are not all white with blonde hair and blue eyes, but there's this like image in people's brains that all ancient history is exactly the same kind of like person, and so when people get into like these casting choices and whatnot, and they're like wholeheartedly there's one that's like Sydney Sweeney needs to be Helen of Troy, and I'm like, but why? 00:06:42.959 --> 00:07:02.399 Um we're pretending like there wasn't this tradition of like royalty going across borders into other places and that people wouldn't look the way that they look now from those same spaces, you know? 00:07:03.279 --> 00:07:17.519 And I think unfortunately, classics are often used as a tool to um, and by classics I mean Greco-Roman, um classics are often used as a tool to hold up supremacy. 00:07:17.519 --> 00:07:35.519 And I think for me especially, I have always sought to use it as a tool to dismantle racism, and that you know, something that I love that when I was teaching mythology, um, it kind of happened naturally. 00:07:35.519 --> 00:07:48.720 That was always something that I was like kind of aiming to do, but I really loved how much students kind of picked up on that on their own and kind of ran with it. 00:07:48.720 --> 00:08:04.160 Um, and also I will tell you, teaching because when I taught mythology, it officially it was a mythology class, everything was always grounded in mythology, but I really wanted to do like a middle school classics course. 00:08:04.160 --> 00:08:22.720 That's really what it was, and that's why I think they loved it so much because we were incorporating aspects of Latin, we were looking at history, and I gotta tell you, teaching the transition from the Roman Republic into the empire in this day and age is such a fascinating thing to teach. 00:08:22.720 --> 00:08:30.720 I mean, the kids were, and I just love that they were making connections without me having to point it out, and these are sixth graders, right? 00:08:30.720 --> 00:08:50.879 Like we were learning about the triumvirate, and like um, and for those not familiar, just like a three, a three-man group, a triumvirate is when you have like three really powerful people in different realms that kind of come together and become kind of like the de facto force, you know, leading force. 00:08:50.879 --> 00:08:59.440 And at the time, um, because it was a couple years ago, it this is when Trump and uh Elon Musk were like besties. 00:08:59.440 --> 00:09:07.279 And um, I remember one of my students kind of pointing that out and being like, well, it's not three people, but it's kind of giving that, right? 00:09:07.279 --> 00:09:10.320 And I'm like, yeah, it's totally giving that. 00:09:10.320 --> 00:09:14.799 Um, and I mean, kids are just so damn brilliant. 00:09:14.799 --> 00:09:17.679 Like they teach me every day. 00:09:17.679 --> 00:09:21.919 I feel like I'm just sitting back and just learning from them just as much as they're learning for me. 00:09:21.919 --> 00:09:27.440 It's such a blessing to get to work and and do this every day, right? 00:09:27.440 --> 00:09:35.360 To just talk about the things that we love, the things that we're passionate about, and just get to watch them grow. 00:09:35.360 --> 00:09:40.799 And I think that's one of the reasons why I love teaching middle school so much is because they're in that. 00:09:40.799 --> 00:09:49.600 I mean, and I I feel like I'm I I'm always defending being a middle school teacher because everyone, every time I tell people, they're like, Why do you teach middle school? 00:09:49.600 --> 00:09:50.879 Wouldn't you rather teach? 00:09:50.879 --> 00:10:11.360 And I'm like, actually, I really love middle school because you get them at a time that they're kind of moving out of being little ones into being, you know, more mature thinkers, and it's fun because they still do really funny, really, really cute things. 00:10:11.360 --> 00:10:22.480 And then out of nowhere, they'll blow your mind with like some deep thought, or they'll like catch something that you know, you're like, wow, that's that's amazing. 00:10:22.480 --> 00:10:30.240 I was just telling my mom yesterday, I feel like every year I have at least one student that I think could potentially be smarter than me. 00:10:30.240 --> 00:10:40.080 Um every year there's that one kid who's just like sitting there, like, you know, reading Jane Austen or something and giving you side eye while you're teaching. 00:10:40.080 --> 00:10:51.200 Um but yeah, I I think that's probably one of my favorite things about being a teacher is just the potential to learn from them as they're learning from me. 00:11:55.350 --> 00:12:18.070 I have only taught middle school, I taught for one year, and I will say that when I went into it, I knew I wasn't a middle school teacher, and coming out of it, I know I'm not a middle school teacher, but what I'm really thankful for it because there are some really wonderful connections that I've made and that process that you're talking about, I've seen. 00:12:18.070 --> 00:12:19.430 And I teach theater, right? 00:12:19.430 --> 00:12:30.870 I taught musical theater, and so it's it's more of the fun class, but at the same time, we're watching things that have uh undertone of like specific messaging. 00:12:30.870 --> 00:12:46.310 Like, for instance, SpongeBob the musical talks about like global warming and the the dynamic power of or the the struggle of like the people versus like power and like what it's like to be an immigrant, because there's there's all that it's SpongeBob the musical, right? 00:12:46.310 --> 00:12:52.470 And these my students are like, oh, crazy, making connections to like what's going on with ice and all that stuff. 00:12:52.470 --> 00:12:58.230 And so there's these moments where you're just like, wow, these 12-year-olds are brilliant. 00:12:58.230 --> 00:13:13.670 And one of the things I find so fascinating about this age group, I have a 12-year-old daughter also, and so I look at what my experience was like when I was 12 and how disconnected I was from like global perspectives. 00:13:13.670 --> 00:13:33.670 I think about the fact that like realistically, there are two things that stick out in my brain as like strong things that I knew about that had a global impact, and one of them was just like an awareness of Saddam Hussein, and that's just because when I was younger, he was on the news all the time. 00:13:33.670 --> 00:13:44.950 And then 9-11 was the first time that I feel like I was a junior in high school, and it's the first time I felt like I was like generally in the know, right in the moment. 00:13:44.950 --> 00:14:05.670 And one of the things that I hear a lot is just how like bad social media is and access to the internet is for young people, and I will say that the counter to it is that I think that we have more of these breakthrough moments and these connections to real-world experiences because of the fact that students are aware of what's happening in their world. 00:14:05.670 --> 00:14:10.710 I don't know that we would continue to have that if it was reliant on the seven o'clock news. 00:14:11.270 --> 00:14:11.830 Yeah. 00:14:13.030 --> 00:14:15.670 They know things, yeah, they really do. 00:14:15.670 --> 00:14:18.070 Sometimes they tell me about things, and like I have to look that up. 00:14:20.070 --> 00:14:20.710 Yeah. 00:14:20.710 --> 00:14:24.550 Yeah, they uh they really are quite brilliant. 00:14:24.550 --> 00:14:27.830 And by the way, I am jealous that you're a theater teacher. 00:14:27.830 --> 00:14:33.509 I actually should have mentioned I kind of started as a theater teacher. 00:14:33.509 --> 00:14:39.030 I was originally hired as I was a waiter at Applebee's. 00:14:39.030 --> 00:14:40.710 We love Applebee's okay. 00:14:40.710 --> 00:14:47.030 You know, I was I was living for those half-off appetizers. 00:14:47.030 --> 00:14:57.110 And so this basically, I I really am thankful that I had an extra Starbucks this this on this particular day. 00:14:57.110 --> 00:15:02.550 I had like two coffees coming off my shift at Target and going into Applebee's. 00:15:02.550 --> 00:15:11.270 And my who had become my first principal came in, sat at a table, and I was just like I said, extra coffee that day. 00:15:11.270 --> 00:15:12.390 I was really happy. 00:15:12.390 --> 00:15:14.710 I was, you know, in it, right? 00:15:14.710 --> 00:15:19.110 And it was his daughter's birthday, and I was just vibing with her. 00:15:19.110 --> 00:15:20.710 She was so she was cool, right? 00:15:20.710 --> 00:15:24.070 And we were just laughing and having a good time. 00:15:24.070 --> 00:15:27.350 And then he was like, Yo, have you ever worked with kids before? 00:15:27.350 --> 00:15:28.550 And I was like, Nope. 00:15:28.550 --> 00:15:30.629 And he's like, You should think about it. 00:15:30.629 --> 00:15:31.990 And he gave me his card. 00:15:31.990 --> 00:15:45.430 And um, he was a principal of a charter school, and so he kind of had me come in and kind of coached me through um getting my my teaching license. 00:15:45.430 --> 00:15:54.550 And honestly, there are times where I'm like, oh, I was never a student teacher, but then I realized I actually was a student teacher for like three years because I did a little bit of everything. 00:15:54.550 --> 00:15:58.390 I am so thankful for my time um at that school. 00:15:58.390 --> 00:15:59.190 It was amazing. 00:15:59.190 --> 00:16:04.550 But one of the things I kind of did to start was I was doing the little theater program. 00:16:04.550 --> 00:16:10.390 Like I directed the same show probably 25 times. 00:16:10.390 --> 00:16:32.950 And what I loved about being a theater teacher, and the reason I said I'm jealous, is not just because theater is amazing and fun, but because um I loved seeing kids who said they had no interest in it or they didn't want to do it, and then you put them on stage and they just become a completely different person. 00:16:32.950 --> 00:16:44.870 I've also noticed, and I want to know if you feel the same way, um people will always try and decide, they'll be like, oh, he's a theater person, she's a theater person. 00:16:44.870 --> 00:16:52.150 And I'm like, it in my experience, it was never the class clown that did good on stage. 00:16:52.150 --> 00:16:56.629 It was always the quiet kid that came alive on stage. 00:16:56.629 --> 00:17:04.150 I was like, I feel like you can so rarely like decide who's gonna do well on stage. 00:17:04.150 --> 00:17:06.710 It's like you almost never see it coming. 00:17:06.710 --> 00:17:15.829 It's like the kids you think are gonna do good on stage kind of clam up, and the kids who you're like, oh, I don't know if she can do, and then like explodes on stage. 00:17:15.829 --> 00:17:19.349 Like it's like this kind of a weird thing, you know? 00:17:19.349 --> 00:17:26.150 Um, I've always attributed it to for some people, speaking to an audience is easier than individuals. 00:17:26.150 --> 00:17:30.230 I mean, I know that's kind of how I felt when I was a kid. 00:17:30.789 --> 00:17:39.750 I would rather be behind a mic in front of a like behind a podium, up in front of a bunch of people, than to have to have a small talk conversation with people in a small group. 00:17:40.309 --> 00:17:40.950 Same. 00:17:41.430 --> 00:17:43.349 I think that there are different levels of students. 00:17:43.349 --> 00:17:49.029 There's like the student who knows this is their thing and this is what they want to do, and they will shine because they're like, this is my thing. 00:17:49.029 --> 00:17:56.309 And then there's students who are like, this is not my thing, I'm gonna be shy and quiet in here, and then they get up on stage and they're like phenomenal. 00:17:56.309 --> 00:17:59.190 And I had that experience this year with my middle schoolers. 00:17:59.190 --> 00:18:32.069 And then the class clown is really great at the small environment, they're really great with their 21 peers or whatever you know your class size is, but then when you get them in front of a bigger audience, they actually aren't necessarily the best for the bigger audience because there's this the thing with class clowns is there's a it's a not survival mechanism, it's a it's like a safety mechanism to make sure that they are liked within the group, but you can't get that reassurance from the audience except for applause. 00:18:32.069 --> 00:18:45.029 And if applause doesn't do it for you, if it has to be certain other things, it's gotta be like the right role for the class clown in order for it to really be something that thrives, unless they're a person who's decided this is my thing. 00:18:46.309 --> 00:18:49.509 As you said that, I heard Lady Gaga in my head go off. 00:18:50.230 --> 00:18:50.710 Applause. 00:18:50.710 --> 00:18:51.750 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:18:51.750 --> 00:18:53.190 We live for the applause. 00:18:53.190 --> 00:18:56.470 I want to talk a little bit about uh queerness, right? 00:18:56.470 --> 00:18:58.870 This is the Queering Education Podcast. 00:18:58.870 --> 00:19:17.190 We've talked a lot about your educational experience, which I love because I also am not a person who went the like the route that most people go for education, you know, right into a certificate program or a master's program where you get your licensure, but like came to it later after doing other things. 00:19:17.190 --> 00:19:24.470 I want to talk about how you feel like your identity show up and help shape you as an educator. 00:19:25.590 --> 00:19:26.630 Yikes. 00:19:26.630 --> 00:19:34.309 So when I first started teaching, the school that I worked at originally was in Florida. 00:19:34.309 --> 00:19:47.910 Um, and despite that, I would say that that community was always incredibly kind and incredibly affirming, and I always felt safe there. 00:19:47.910 --> 00:19:55.269 But there was always, and I imagine that many of the listeners will know what I'm talking about. 00:19:55.269 --> 00:20:01.750 There is this weird kind of like you don't talk about that pressure. 00:20:01.750 --> 00:20:04.630 I don't really quite know how to describe it. 00:20:04.630 --> 00:20:13.750 It was weird because I came out at like 14 years old in South Mississippi in the early 2000s. 00:20:13.750 --> 00:20:20.710 So, I mean, that was something I I mean, I guess just being gay, I was never afraid of people knowing that, right? 00:20:20.710 --> 00:20:26.150 Or, you know, like any kind of like I was I was gonna work with it. 00:20:26.150 --> 00:20:27.509 I was always gonna work with it. 00:20:27.509 --> 00:20:42.630 But when I started teaching, I was always afraid that if people knew that I was going to like not be able to teach anymore, or that it was gonna be taken from me. 00:20:42.630 --> 00:20:47.590 I just felt like this kind of weird, crushing pressure to keep my mouth shut. 00:20:47.590 --> 00:20:54.309 When I got here to Portland, however, that I mean, as you can imagine, it's a little bit different here. 00:20:54.309 --> 00:20:58.630 It's a much more affirming culture, and so I've been able to come out here. 00:20:58.630 --> 00:21:03.029 And honestly, I mean, queerness factors into everything I do in the classroom. 00:21:03.029 --> 00:21:05.670 My classroom is so gay looking. 00:21:05.670 --> 00:21:15.190 I mean, it's like everything is pink and rainbow, and it's a very I try, I try to make it a very happy and beautiful environment. 00:21:15.190 --> 00:21:23.910 And I think one of the most uh affirming things I ever got was one day a substitute left me a note that said, I love how gay and affirming your space is. 00:21:23.910 --> 00:21:28.630 And I was like, yes, that is absolutely the goal. 00:21:28.630 --> 00:21:35.830 But I also am the um I'm the advisor for our queer student alliance. 00:21:35.830 --> 00:21:42.470 And honestly, like when I think about the highlights of my job, that's definitely in the top three. 00:21:42.470 --> 00:21:43.830 We meet up once a week. 00:21:43.830 --> 00:21:54.710 A lot of times it's honestly just me creating a space for kids to come together and honestly just talk and feel safe and be in an environment where they can learn about queerness together. 00:21:54.710 --> 00:21:56.309 But I try really hard. 00:21:56.309 --> 00:22:01.670 Like, I take the role of being, I don't like using the word elder. 00:22:01.670 --> 00:22:08.710 It's so I'm young and beautiful and I don't age, but no, I do take that role very, very seriously. 00:22:08.710 --> 00:22:17.670 And I think to myself, a lot of times I may be the only like queer adult in their life, or maybe even the queer, the only queer person they know. 00:22:17.670 --> 00:22:26.870 So I take the role of like showing them our culture and teaching them our history, and I take that very, very seriously. 00:22:26.870 --> 00:22:32.950 I last year we actually took our first like field trip as a queer student alliance. 00:22:32.950 --> 00:23:08.549 I actually was able to get us a queer walking tour of downtown Portland, and um we learned so much together, and just you know, like I think one of the funniest moments we had was we actually got to go into the archives, and there was they had like set up this book of bug shots for us from like the um from like the 50s and One of the kids was just looking through it and excuse my language, but I am giving you a direct quote here. 00:23:08.549 --> 00:23:10.950 Like, she looked at me and she goes, Mr. 00:23:10.950 --> 00:23:13.830 Hoda, it's just hookers and gay boys. 00:23:13.830 --> 00:23:19.990 And I was like, I mean, yeah, yeah, pretty much. 00:23:19.990 --> 00:23:35.350 And it was just a really powerful moment because I remember having the discussion afterward about how much, like, you know, just being yourself, you'd be harassed and arrested or, you know, treated badly. 00:23:35.350 --> 00:23:45.350 And it was just, like I said, it was a really cool moment for us all to realize that we've always been around as a community and always had each other's backs. 00:23:45.350 --> 00:23:51.750 And, you know, that's something, a value I want to instill with them is to stay together and take care of themselves. 00:23:51.990 --> 00:23:52.870 I love that so much. 00:23:52.870 --> 00:24:00.549 And I love the idea of a queer field trip to get to know the queer community in your own like space, right? 00:24:00.549 --> 00:24:13.350 We can read about queer history in other spaces, but to be able to understand the queer history of our own community is powerful because I think that it helps you feel connected to something when oftentimes you can feel isolated. 00:24:13.670 --> 00:24:14.710 Queer is culture. 00:24:14.710 --> 00:24:16.789 Queer is absolutely culture. 00:24:16.789 --> 00:24:28.789 And I know that like a lot of people have, you know, there are differing opinions on that, but I will say that I am very pro like is culture. 00:24:29.430 --> 00:24:30.870 Yeah, absolutely. 00:24:30.870 --> 00:24:40.150 I'm wondering what you think that other people get wrong about queer educators and queer students and what our experiences are like. 00:24:41.910 --> 00:24:46.950 Well, for one thing, queer kids are real, they exist. 00:24:46.950 --> 00:25:06.789 And I I honestly I think that's the biggest one for me, like to advocate for, because you know, I think a lot of times people are really shocked to know that I I am the queer student on, you know, advisor, but in a middle school, right? 00:25:06.789 --> 00:25:09.190 Like people are like, you have that in a middle school? 00:25:09.190 --> 00:25:13.910 And I'm like, well, duh, there's you know, queer kids exist. 00:25:13.910 --> 00:25:17.190 I mean, you're looking at one, I was pretty, pretty gay. 00:25:17.190 --> 00:25:22.710 I think I was like six years old when I realized, you know, that I was a little bit different. 00:25:22.710 --> 00:25:38.230 And I think that's like the biggest thing is just acknowledging that they exist, acknowledging that they again have a history, they have a culture, and they have a perspective that needs to be respected and accommodated for. 00:25:38.230 --> 00:25:41.750 I think that's the most important thing as far. 00:25:41.750 --> 00:25:45.190 I think you asked what do people get wrong? 00:25:45.190 --> 00:25:55.350 Well, I I guess in on that front, I would just say that it's really, really important to have queer teachers. 00:25:55.350 --> 00:25:57.750 It's really important to have queer educators. 00:25:57.750 --> 00:26:10.309 I don't know that I've ever heard anyone say or emphasize we need to have queer, you know, we need to have a queer presence in this school, in this department, in this area. 00:26:10.309 --> 00:26:14.069 I don't think I've ever heard anyone like emphasize that. 00:26:14.069 --> 00:26:32.870 Um, because as I said, we have queer students, we have, we have queer populations in schools, and I think we need to have adults in the building that can be trusted adults that can set a good example that are there to, like I said, teach the culture, teach the history. 00:26:32.870 --> 00:26:37.190 And I think because I didn't have those adults in my life, a lot of times I'm learning. 00:26:37.190 --> 00:26:41.590 Like I'm sitting here telling you, we have queer history, we have queer culture. 00:26:41.590 --> 00:26:44.710 But a lot of times when I sit down, I'm like, okay, what is it? 00:26:44.710 --> 00:26:51.750 Like I know what it is, I feel it instinctually, but sometimes I'm like, what does that even mean? 00:26:51.750 --> 00:26:57.350 I'm endeavoring to teach these kids that we have this culture, but like I don't even know what it is, right? 00:26:57.350 --> 00:27:11.350 So sometimes it's like I have to like actually examine that myself and bring that, you know, like, and sometimes like I'll sit with this room full of self-identifying queer students, and you'll be amazed like the things they don't know. 00:27:11.350 --> 00:27:12.950 Like a silly thing, for example. 00:27:12.950 --> 00:27:15.590 I feel like everyone hearing me is gonna roll their eyes right now. 00:27:15.590 --> 00:27:17.830 Let's talk about Judy Garland, right? 00:27:17.830 --> 00:27:20.390 They didn't know who that was. 00:27:20.390 --> 00:27:23.430 And I'm like, okay, y'all, come on now. 00:27:23.430 --> 00:27:27.509 You're you're queer kids, you have to know who Judy Garland is. 00:27:27.509 --> 00:27:43.029 Um, and so I feel like we have to have these adults in these spaces, not because it's nice, not because it's cute, not because queer people just make everything, everything we touch is beautiful. 00:27:43.029 --> 00:27:49.750 You know, like we need them in the space for those kids because they're there and they need that representation. 00:27:49.750 --> 00:27:53.110 And not just for the queer kids, for the straight kids as well. 00:27:53.110 --> 00:28:07.269 I mean, honestly, the most powerful interaction I had this past school year, probably ever in my life, to be honest, was I have a student who very much does not identify as queer. 00:28:07.269 --> 00:28:22.789 But he came to my room during lunch one day because he had he had like this mess in his backpack and he was upset about it. 00:28:22.789 --> 00:28:29.029 I think it was like he his breakfast light had exploded in his it's middle school, these things happen. 00:28:29.029 --> 00:28:41.670 So his his breakfast had just like exploded, and he came to my room and he was really mad, and he was like cleaning it up, and he stopped what he was doing and he looked at me and he goes, Mr. 00:28:41.670 --> 00:28:44.230 Hoda, I'm sorry I'm interrupting your lunch. 00:28:44.230 --> 00:28:46.470 I was like, Oh no, it's no big deal, you're fine. 00:28:46.470 --> 00:28:47.509 And he goes, Yeah. 00:28:47.509 --> 00:28:55.190 He said, I just came to you first because honestly, you're kind of like my father figure, and this is the only space I really feel safe in. 00:28:55.190 --> 00:29:07.990 And I was just like, Wow, that felt almost scripted, like that was so kind and touching, and it was one of the most powerful experiences I ever had. 00:29:07.990 --> 00:29:24.630 And I I I really only relate that to this because I step back and I'm like, here is this kid who you know really values, like very, you know, Machismo kind of kid, really values his, you know, his masculinity, if you will. 00:29:24.630 --> 00:29:28.230 And then he's telling that I'm his father figure. 00:29:28.230 --> 00:29:44.230 And I'm like, you know, I think it's so important that we provide other versions of, you know, gender presentation, different versions of masculinity, because you never know who's going to learn from it and to grow from it. 00:29:44.789 --> 00:29:49.509 I think there's a really powerful lesson there that also is a misconception that people have. 00:29:49.509 --> 00:29:55.269 And it's not a misconception about queer teachers and queer students so much as queer spaces. 00:29:55.269 --> 00:30:03.830 And I think a lesson that can be taken from this story is that there's so many people who are like anti-safe space, anti-brave space. 00:30:03.830 --> 00:30:05.350 No safe space stickers up. 00:30:05.350 --> 00:30:09.830 We can't have that because it's actually excluding people. 00:30:09.830 --> 00:30:16.309 Like for some reason, having the everybody is welcome here sign in your room excludes me. 00:30:16.309 --> 00:30:17.830 It excludes me from that. 00:30:17.830 --> 00:30:19.509 I am not part of everyone. 00:30:19.509 --> 00:30:29.029 But the reality is by making safe and brave spaces, we are making them safe and brave for everyone. 00:30:29.029 --> 00:30:35.590 Everyone, quite literally, is welcome here, and we're all going to treat each other with respect. 00:30:35.590 --> 00:30:39.110 And I think that's the part that some parents have a problem with. 00:30:39.110 --> 00:30:43.269 They don't want their kids to respect people if they don't align with their beliefs. 00:30:43.269 --> 00:30:52.630 But like, quite literally, around the world, there are millions of different beliefs, and we all have to figure out how to get together and and work together. 00:30:52.950 --> 00:30:57.990 I am gonna present everybody, I'm gonna present every culture, every belief. 00:30:57.990 --> 00:31:01.990 But if you want to teach, it's not my job to teach your bigotry. 00:31:02.630 --> 00:31:03.190 Facts. 00:31:03.190 --> 00:31:12.710 And that's the thing about like queering education, is it's not like you were talking earlier about how Greco-Roman classics can be a tool for white supremacy. 00:31:12.710 --> 00:31:22.549 It doesn't mean stop teaching Greco-Roman classics, it means address that it can be a tool for white supremacy and also talk about what else it could be. 00:31:22.549 --> 00:31:25.750 That there's not just one way to do something. 00:31:25.750 --> 00:31:27.910 I think about that with theater education, right? 00:31:27.910 --> 00:31:33.590 Because a lot of theater education starts with Greco-Roman being like, this is the start of theater. 00:31:33.590 --> 00:31:42.710 It was, you know, it was Athens and it is the you know, Dionysus um theater, you know, it's it's these places. 00:31:42.710 --> 00:31:52.390 But realistically, there were tribes around the world acting out and telling stories around campfires before that happened. 00:31:52.390 --> 00:32:02.549 And they actually took those campfires and then they put them on a stage, and then later they added the fire again by adding candles to light it, right? 00:32:02.549 --> 00:32:10.069 So, like, this idea that this is the start of theater is not true, and we have to just address it. 00:32:10.069 --> 00:32:24.390 It's not true, but it's an important milestone in what theater becomes, and so it's like it's not about erasure so much as it's about reframing from a multicultural perspective. 00:32:25.110 --> 00:32:35.750 Oh, and if you want to blow their minds, whenever you're talking about the ancient world, just remind them that the pyramids were already ancient when the Colosseum went up. 00:32:35.750 --> 00:32:43.830 Cleopatra never saw the Sphinx because it was already buried under the sand by the time she ruled. 00:32:43.830 --> 00:32:50.309 Like, if you just draw a timeline, so many people are just blown away by how ancient Egypt is. 00:32:50.309 --> 00:33:00.069 And there are times I'm like, how can we say anything was the first when Egypt had already been around for thousands of years? 00:33:00.390 --> 00:33:01.910 100%, 100%. 00:33:01.910 --> 00:33:05.350 And I think about that, the black culture, right? 00:33:05.350 --> 00:33:24.150 Egypt is an African nation now, and Egypt has always been in what we consider Africa, and this like dismantling idea of like, you know, it was whiteness that created all of these big and powerful places, but it's it's not all it's not always been true. 00:33:24.470 --> 00:33:28.470 The thing is, they didn't the the ancients didn't conceive of race the way that we do. 00:33:28.470 --> 00:33:41.990 No, like it didn't, they wouldn't have like you ask if someone in the ancient world liked the color of their skin, they they they wouldn't have even thought to describe that because they didn't think in those terms. 00:33:42.390 --> 00:33:42.950 100%. 00:33:42.950 --> 00:33:52.630 And that's the crazy part to think about is it's just like all these people who are fighting things, like fighting these ideas of like gender being a social structure social construct. 00:33:52.630 --> 00:33:54.870 Well, race is a social construct, also. 00:33:54.870 --> 00:34:03.350 We're just born with skin, and then someone decided that there needed to be a hierarchy, and then we were all trained on what that was. 00:34:03.990 --> 00:34:15.509 I mean, one of my favorite things to do was when I teach mythology, I actually used this photography series that was done a few years ago by a Spanish photographer named Anna Martinez. 00:34:15.509 --> 00:34:22.630 She did a spread of based on each Greek god, but she used a black model. 00:34:22.630 --> 00:34:32.309 So that is pretty much exclusively when I present the gods to them, those are the images that I use. 00:34:32.309 --> 00:34:39.269 And you know, honestly, most of the time the kids don't even bat an eye, they just kind of accept it as it is. 00:34:39.269 --> 00:34:46.069 And every once in a while, like a student would say, I remember I showed Aphrodite, and one of the students came up to me and goes, Mr. 00:34:46.069 --> 00:34:47.509 Hoda, was she black? 00:34:47.509 --> 00:34:51.670 And I was just like, I mean, why not? 00:34:51.670 --> 00:34:53.029 Maybe she was. 00:34:53.029 --> 00:34:59.029 I said, I I think, you know what, right now, in this moment, between me and you, yes, Aphrodite is black. 00:34:59.029 --> 00:35:05.509 And I just remember her looking at it because she was a black student herself and just saying, She's so beautiful. 00:35:05.829 --> 00:35:06.949 And I'm like, Yeah, she is. 00:35:07.190 --> 00:35:08.549 She's the goddess of love and beauty. 00:35:08.549 --> 00:35:12.230 She defines what's beautiful, and she's black. 00:35:12.230 --> 00:35:12.710 Yep. 00:35:12.710 --> 00:35:19.909 And I think that's also one of, you know, one of the really important reasons why, like I mentioned earlier, we were talking about Helen of Troy. 00:35:19.909 --> 00:35:28.549 I think it's so important and really meaningful and amazing that we cast a black woman to play Helen of Troy. 00:35:28.549 --> 00:35:43.669 And it's not just about the whiteness, the perceived whiteness of the ancient world, it's also because Helen of Troy is we when we say Helen of Troy, we are taught we mean the most beautiful woman who ever walked the earth, right? 00:35:43.669 --> 00:35:47.429 And our beauty standard is infamously white. 00:35:47.429 --> 00:35:56.230 So when we cast a black woman to play Helen of Troy, like that is literally that's culture changing. 00:35:56.230 --> 00:35:57.909 Like that is huge. 00:35:57.909 --> 00:36:16.389 And I think it's honestly, and I don't know that that was on anyone's mind when they were casting Helen of Troy, but damn it, I'm glad they did it because they have just, you know, they have potentially just warped our beauty standard a little bit in, you know, toward justice. 00:36:16.389 --> 00:36:20.069 And it, you know, I just I'm so happy that this has happened. 00:36:20.309 --> 00:36:20.549 Right. 00:36:20.549 --> 00:36:23.269 And they've done it in a medium that is very visual. 00:36:23.269 --> 00:36:32.069 Whereas we have stories and we have and part of the problem is we have white marble, we have white marble statues of all these people. 00:36:32.069 --> 00:36:36.149 There isn't there is no skin tone to the statues. 00:36:36.149 --> 00:36:38.629 There's no they were not white back in the day either. 00:36:38.629 --> 00:36:39.029 Right? 00:36:39.029 --> 00:36:43.750 You're top we're talking Mediterranean, we're talking, you know, sun-baked skin. 00:36:43.750 --> 00:36:53.269 And so it's just interesting to me, you know, that people struggle with the idea of race being a social construct when it's so clear. 00:36:53.269 --> 00:36:54.869 It's so clear. 00:36:54.869 --> 00:36:57.669 But I digress, and I don't want to digress too far. 00:36:57.669 --> 00:37:01.829 I do want to shout out that people should go look at that that photography. 00:37:01.829 --> 00:37:03.189 It is stunning. 00:37:03.189 --> 00:37:09.189 Like, there are some of those gods where I'm like, damn, whoo, these are beautiful beings. 00:37:09.189 --> 00:37:11.989 And so please, please go go check it out. 00:37:11.989 --> 00:37:13.109 Like, take a moment. 00:37:13.109 --> 00:37:14.230 It's wonderful. 00:37:14.230 --> 00:37:18.469 As we wrap up, I have a couple of I have a couple of questions for you. 00:37:18.469 --> 00:37:22.869 First and foremost, what is bringing you queer joy right now? 00:37:23.429 --> 00:37:24.949 Can it just be joy in general? 00:37:24.949 --> 00:37:26.710 It can be careful. 00:37:26.710 --> 00:37:32.069 So at my school, we have these these courtyards. 00:37:32.069 --> 00:37:35.589 And the entire time I've wear, and they're gorgeous, they're so pretty. 00:37:35.589 --> 00:37:40.230 But the entire time that I've worked there, no one really does anything out there. 00:37:40.230 --> 00:37:48.949 They just kind of become overgrown until like the PTA goes out and then they cut everything down, and then it looks maintained for like five minutes and then it grows again. 00:37:48.949 --> 00:37:57.429 Well, I've I've been hearing, like, you know, for the past several years, I've someone's always saying, Oh, someone should do something with the courtyard. 00:37:57.429 --> 00:38:00.389 And I'm like, Well, someone could be me. 00:38:00.389 --> 00:38:03.429 So I am someone. 00:38:03.429 --> 00:38:15.750 So I wanted to do something out there that tied Portland history, science, actually a little bit of indirectly, a little bit of mythology. 00:38:15.750 --> 00:38:19.429 I wanted to do something that kind of brought all this together. 00:38:19.429 --> 00:38:25.909 And so I decided let's turn one of the courtyards into a test rose garden. 00:38:25.909 --> 00:38:33.029 And um it was also like uh it was honestly just so many things that were happening. 00:38:33.029 --> 00:38:37.189 Um, Portland is kind of having a bit of a budget crisis right now. 00:38:37.189 --> 00:38:44.230 And about that time was they had announced that they were gonna be closing about five of our PPS schools. 00:38:44.230 --> 00:38:50.389 And you know, my thought was immediately, I'm like, well, we're gonna, it's gonna be us. 00:38:50.389 --> 00:38:53.269 Like my I just always assume the the the worst, right? 00:38:53.269 --> 00:38:58.549 Fortunately, it is not going to be us, but at that moment, I was like, it's definitely gonna be us. 00:38:58.549 --> 00:39:09.429 And so I was like, I guess like I went into like this survivor mode, and I'm just like, do something cool, make this make our school a jewel. 00:39:09.429 --> 00:39:12.549 So I was like, I'm gonna turn it into a rose garden. 00:39:12.549 --> 00:39:19.989 And I used a donor's juice, and I got all the supplies that we needed. 00:39:19.989 --> 00:39:30.230 We had a really accomplished rosarian in our neighborhood who passed away, and his kids didn't want his roses to just kind of go by the wayside. 00:39:30.230 --> 00:39:33.829 So I went and got them and I planted them. 00:39:33.829 --> 00:39:39.429 So it's and we're gonna probably wind up naming the garden after him, actually. 00:39:39.429 --> 00:39:43.509 But ever over the summer, my husband absolutely loves this. 00:39:43.509 --> 00:39:52.949 But I'm going out there every other day and weeding and watering, and honestly, not to brag, but I'm gonna brag. 00:39:52.949 --> 00:40:17.269 That garden is gorgeous, and I feel so good about it, and I cannot wait for them to come back in fall because I feel like the kids' jaws are just gonna drop when they look out there because I have power washed it, I have weeded it, I have trimmed like trees, I have trimmed bushes, and I have planted and mulched, and the kids are gonna be involved with it. 00:40:17.269 --> 00:40:21.669 The kids at the end of the year actually helped me start it, and they want to. 00:40:21.669 --> 00:40:29.909 That's the that is the weird part, is I thought I was going to have to like pull teeth to get them out there. 00:40:29.909 --> 00:40:33.029 They want to, they want to go out there. 00:40:33.029 --> 00:40:36.710 They're asking me if they can weed, they're asking me like Mr. 00:40:36.710 --> 00:40:40.309 Hoda, what color is that rose, or what's the name of that one? 00:40:40.309 --> 00:40:44.149 And so honestly, that is bringing me so much joy. 00:40:44.149 --> 00:40:51.269 I love gardening, I love those roses, and I'm just so excited for the kids to see it in fall. 00:40:51.589 --> 00:40:52.710 I love that so much. 00:40:52.710 --> 00:41:04.469 I also love working in the ground, so I think that's an awesome thing to do with students, especially when we are constantly disconnected from the earth and connected to a device. 00:41:05.429 --> 00:41:06.869 Can I have a cutting of that one? 00:41:06.869 --> 00:41:11.189 Like the things they're asking me, and I it's what I know. 00:41:11.189 --> 00:41:18.789 I'm sure most teachers can identify with this, that moment where you're like, I didn't even think they were gonna be that into it. 00:41:18.789 --> 00:41:27.509 Or I thought, oh, I'm gonna teach this just because it makes me happy, but I don't think the kids are really they're into it, and they're just like suddenly obsessed with it. 00:41:27.509 --> 00:41:35.429 I also just as a side note, like that happened in fall when I was teaching them about illegal mercury mining uh in Mexico. 00:41:35.429 --> 00:41:50.230 I didn't why on earth did I had no idea that they would be so into that, and they were literally still asking me about that at the end of the year, like they were extremely passionate about that and blew my mind. 00:41:50.230 --> 00:41:51.589 I had no idea. 00:41:51.829 --> 00:41:52.789 That's awesome. 00:41:52.949 --> 00:41:55.989 What a what an interesting thing to be connected to. 00:41:55.989 --> 00:42:01.750 I think a lot of times when you introduce a standard to them, like we all have these standards, right? 00:42:01.750 --> 00:42:18.710 If you can tie it to something that's real, if you can like show them something in the world, an injustice, a uh, you know, an evil, and you say, Hey, you know how I'm teaching you about the toxicity of mercury? 00:42:18.710 --> 00:42:29.589 This is why this matters, because this is what's happening in Mexico, and then they're taking it into Colombia to amalgamate gold. 00:42:29.589 --> 00:42:45.269 And you know, it's like, and this is how that's poisoning the environment, but we can't just stop that because the people in Mexico who are doing this mining have nothing else, and if you take this from them, how are they gonna live their lives? 00:42:45.269 --> 00:42:47.029 So, like, what do we do, guys? 00:42:47.029 --> 00:42:52.230 And and you know, and I give them a disclaimer, I'm like, look, I'm not an expert on this, I read about it yesterday. 00:42:52.230 --> 00:42:55.269 So I want to know what do you all think? 00:42:55.269 --> 00:42:59.989 And they are still worried about it, and they're still asking me about it. 00:42:59.989 --> 00:43:08.949 And like I said, we we just have to tie these standards to real world things, and if they feel like they can make a difference with it, it matters to them. 00:43:09.269 --> 00:43:10.469 Absolutely. 00:43:10.469 --> 00:43:16.789 Last question What is something that you want queer educators to hear right now in this moment? 00:43:18.469 --> 00:43:20.869 If being gay is a choice, be gayer. 00:43:20.869 --> 00:43:29.509 Like bring it to class, be you, because like I said, I think it's come up a few times in our conversation. 00:43:29.509 --> 00:43:34.869 I it it blows my mind how just being me has provided a safe space. 00:43:34.869 --> 00:43:43.189 I I you know, and it never ceases to, you know, amaze me once, maybe twice a year. 00:43:43.189 --> 00:43:54.309 I'll get a social media message or an email from a student I had, you know, five or six years ago that's just like, you know, thank you for being you. 00:43:54.309 --> 00:43:57.029 You, you know, I didn't know gay people. 00:43:57.029 --> 00:43:59.509 You made you made me feel safe. 00:43:59.509 --> 00:44:02.149 You made me feel like I could be me. 00:44:02.149 --> 00:44:07.989 And it'll always be a student where I'm like, I didn't like perform for you. 00:44:07.989 --> 00:44:12.549 I wasn't like, you know, trying to encourage you, and I just being me did. 00:44:12.549 --> 00:44:15.989 Yeah, I mean, of course I want to encourage all students, but you you know what I mean? 00:44:15.989 --> 00:44:17.989 Like, I I didn't say you. 00:44:17.989 --> 00:44:20.949 I want to inspire you to be yourself. 00:44:20.949 --> 00:44:26.069 It just me living my life and having rainbows all over everything, you know, taught them. 00:44:26.069 --> 00:44:32.549 And I I guess the point is they're always watching and they're always listening and they're always learning. 00:44:32.549 --> 00:44:34.869 You know, in the good days and the bad. 00:44:38.629 --> 00:44:41.509 Thank you for being a part of Queering Education. 00:44:41.509 --> 00:44:44.069 This is a Teaching Well Queer podcast. 00:44:44.069 --> 00:44:49.269 Take what you need from this conversation and bring it back into your classroom and your students. 00:44:49.269 --> 00:44:50.949 I'm Brian Stanton. 00:44:50.949 --> 00:44:53.909 Until next time, keep showing up.