Speaker 1: Mr.
Speaker 1: Hood, I'm sorry I'm interrupting your lunch.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh no, it's no big deal.
Speaker 1: You're fine.
Speaker 1: And yeah.
Speaker 1: He said, I just came to you first because honestly, you're kind of like my father figure, and this is the only space I really feel safe at.
Speaker: Welcome to Queering Education, where we challenge what school is and build what it should be.
Speaker: I'm Brian Stanton.
Speaker: This is a Teaching Well Queer podcast about inclusive teaching, queer pedagogy, and showing up authentically in every classroom.
Speaker: Alright, let's do the work.
Speaker: Hello everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Queering Education.
Speaker: I am your host, Brian Stanton.
Speaker: My pronouns are they, them.
Speaker: Today I have with me the lovely Stephen Hoda.
Speaker: Hi, Steven, how are you doing?
Speaker 1: Hello.
Speaker: I know we're gonna get along famously.
Speaker: I not gonna lie, tend to try to charm people.
Speaker: So it's working.
Speaker: Noted.
Speaker: I am very susceptible to flattery.
Speaker: Oh, flattery.
Speaker: Everywhere, right?
Speaker 1: Everywhere I start.
Speaker 1: That's one of the first things I say.
Speaker 1: You know, I am Mr.
Speaker 1: Hoda.
Speaker 1: This is, you know, seventh grade science, and I am very susceptible to flattery.
Speaker: I love that.
Speaker: You have already started the process of what I was gonna ask you.
Speaker: So please take a moment and introduce yourself to everybody who's listening.
Speaker 1: Absolutely.
Speaker 1: So I am Stephen Hoda.
Speaker 1: I live in Portland, Oregon, um, City of Roses, and I teach seventh grade science.
Speaker 1: As uh next year, I now teach sixth grade social studies too, which I am really excited about.
Speaker 1: And but I've also taught mythology.
Speaker 1: As I'm saying it out loud, I'm realizing how weird of a combination all of this is.
Speaker 1: But you know what?
Speaker 1: I love what I do, and I love my population.
Speaker 1: I'm just really, you know, I'm really enthusiastic about the community I get to work with.
Speaker 1: So yeah, pretty happy about it.
Speaker: I have a bachelor's degree in opera, a master's degree in legal studies, and a master's degree in theater.
Speaker: Like you got weird routes are where it's at.
Speaker: But also, I'm not gonna lie, teaching mythology and then going to teach sixth grade social studies kind of seems like a trax because a lot of what I saw in the curriculum for my sixth graders last year was like things that like ancient civilizations and whatnot.
Speaker: And I think that mythology kind of fits right in that realm.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I you know, I feel like recently, and I haven't had the opportunity to look into it yet, but I I am under the impression that in the past sixth grade involved like ancient studies, but I feel like there might have been some kind of change recently.
Speaker 1: I I'm not sure, but uh assuming that it is as it has been, um, I'm very much looking forward to getting to teach students about the ancient world, specifically the Greco-Roman world.
Speaker 1: That's what my background is in, that's where my passion is.
Speaker 1: I mean, I advocated for so long to get to teach mythology, and it was such a huge success.
Speaker 1: Um, I I only didn't get to continue it just because of uh budget and availability, and you know how that goes.
Speaker 1: But um, and also just because as fate would have it, they need a science teacher.
Speaker 1: Um, but mythology, you know, maybe not so.
Speaker 1: It was very, very successful.
Speaker 1: And actually, I uh it kind of became this thing where it's like Mr.
Speaker 1: Hoda's myth kids, and we just keep doing things related to mythology.
Speaker 1: And in fact, um I'm doing my first EF tour in a couple of years for and we're and it's all like the kids who have signed up so far are those original sixth grade um mythology students.
Speaker 1: I'll have them as 10th graders at that point, but we're going to Athens and Rome and Delphi and uh Pompeii, and I'm really, really looking forward to that.
Speaker: Okay, side question.
Speaker: How are we feeling about the Odyssey coming out next week?
Speaker 1: I wrote an article about it.
Speaker: No way, that's crazy.
Speaker 1: We were just talking about how um how like in summer mode, um you know, like all the places your brain goes, and I have been, you know, obviously spending a lot of time uh on social media and um you know just kind of watching the the feedback I'm seeing about certain casting choices.
Speaker 1: Um and um I sat down because uh one of the things is uh for my students, I I have like the you know, I have a teacher Instagram naturally, and I've noticed I've started to post a lot about mythology on my teacher Instagram, just because a lot of those kids follow it.
Speaker 1: And I I went to write something just like a an Instagram post about how much I love Pita.
Speaker 1: I, you know, I actually as much as I do love her and I like her, I don't know that I say her last name correctly, and I don't know that I've ever heard it said.
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna say Nyango.
Speaker 1: I believe that's how it's set.
Speaker 1: But I was writing a little caption about how much I adored her and how she is a perfect choice uh for Helen of Troy, and it turned into an article, and it's gonna be a it's actually a three-parter that I'm writing about how, like I said, basically she's just an excellent choice for Helen of Troy.
Speaker 1: That's so cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah, hang out with kids outside of school without parents, but uh we're meeting as kind of like a little group to go see the Odyssey.
Speaker: That's awesome.
Speaker: Um, there's a couple of things that strike me about that.
Speaker: One, I I am so intrigued that not intrigued, but like it's becoming blatantly obvious to me how the whitewashing of history has impacted people's understanding of the world because I think about the fact that uh these places still exist and the people who exist in these spaces are not all white with blonde hair and blue eyes, but there's this like image in people's brains that all ancient history is exactly the same kind of like person, and so when people get into like these casting choices and whatnot, and they're like wholeheartedly there's one that's like Sydney Sweeney needs to be Helen of Troy, and I'm like, but why?
Speaker: Um we're pretending like there wasn't this tradition of like royalty going across borders into other places and that people wouldn't look the way that they look now from those same spaces, you know?
Speaker 1: And I think unfortunately, classics are often used as a tool to um, and by classics I mean Greco-Roman, um classics are often used as a tool to hold up supremacy.
Speaker 1: And I think for me especially, I have always sought to use it as a tool to dismantle racism, and that you know, something that I love that when I was teaching mythology, um, it kind of happened naturally.
Speaker 1: That was always something that I was like kind of aiming to do, but I really loved how much students kind of picked up on that on their own and kind of ran with it.
Speaker 1: Um, and also I will tell you, teaching because when I taught mythology, it officially it was a mythology class, everything was always grounded in mythology, but I really wanted to do like a middle school classics course.
Speaker 1: That's really what it was, and that's why I think they loved it so much because we were incorporating aspects of Latin, we were looking at history, and I gotta tell you, teaching the transition from the Roman Republic into the empire in this day and age is such a fascinating thing to teach.
Speaker 1: I mean, the kids were, and I just love that they were making connections without me having to point it out, and these are sixth graders, right?
Speaker 1: Like we were learning about the triumvirate, and like um, and for those not familiar, just like a three, a three-man group, a triumvirate is when you have like three really powerful people in different realms that kind of come together and become kind of like the de facto force, you know, leading force.
Speaker 1: And at the time, um, because it was a couple years ago, it this is when Trump and uh Elon Musk were like besties.
Speaker 1: And um, I remember one of my students kind of pointing that out and being like, well, it's not three people, but it's kind of giving that, right?
Speaker 1: And I'm like, yeah, it's totally giving that.
Speaker 1: Um, and I mean, kids are just so damn brilliant.
Speaker 1: Like they teach me every day.
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm just sitting back and just learning from them just as much as they're learning for me.
Speaker 1: It's such a blessing to get to work and and do this every day, right?
Speaker 1: To just talk about the things that we love, the things that we're passionate about, and just get to watch them grow.
Speaker 1: And I think that's one of the reasons why I love teaching middle school so much is because they're in that.
Speaker 1: I mean, and I I feel like I'm I I'm always defending being a middle school teacher because everyone, every time I tell people, they're like, Why do you teach middle school?
Speaker 1: Wouldn't you rather teach?
Speaker 1: And I'm like, actually, I really love middle school because you get them at a time that they're kind of moving out of being little ones into being, you know, more mature thinkers, and it's fun because they still do really funny, really, really cute things.
Speaker 1: And then out of nowhere, they'll blow your mind with like some deep thought, or they'll like catch something that you know, you're like, wow, that's that's amazing.
Speaker 1: I was just telling my mom yesterday, I feel like every year I have at least one student that I think could potentially be smarter than me.
Speaker 1: Um every year there's that one kid who's just like sitting there, like, you know, reading Jane Austen or something and giving you side eye while you're teaching.
Speaker 1: Um but yeah, I I think that's probably one of my favorite things about being a teacher is just the potential to learn from them as they're learning from me.
Speaker: I have only taught middle school, I taught for one year, and I will say that when I went into it, I knew I wasn't a middle school teacher, and coming out of it, I know I'm not a middle school teacher, but what I'm really thankful for it because there are some really wonderful connections that I've made and that process that you're talking about, I've seen.
Speaker: And I teach theater, right?
Speaker: I taught musical theater, and so it's it's more of the fun class, but at the same time, we're watching things that have uh undertone of like specific messaging.
Speaker: Like, for instance, SpongeBob the musical talks about like global warming and the the dynamic power of or the the struggle of like the people versus like power and like what it's like to be an immigrant, because there's there's all that it's SpongeBob the musical, right?
Speaker: And these my students are like, oh, crazy, making connections to like what's going on with ice and all that stuff.
Speaker: And so there's these moments where you're just like, wow, these 12-year-olds are brilliant.
Speaker: And one of the things I find so fascinating about this age group, I have a 12-year-old daughter also, and so I look at what my experience was like when I was 12 and how disconnected I was from like global perspectives.
Speaker: I think about the fact that like realistically, there are two things that stick out in my brain as like strong things that I knew about that had a global impact, and one of them was just like an awareness of Saddam Hussein, and that's just because when I was younger, he was on the news all the time.
Speaker: And then 9-11 was the first time that I feel like I was a junior in high school, and it's the first time I felt like I was like generally in the know, right in the moment.
Speaker: And one of the things that I hear a lot is just how like bad social media is and access to the internet is for young people, and I will say that the counter to it is that I think that we have more of these breakthrough moments and these connections to real-world experiences because of the fact that students are aware of what's happening in their world.
Speaker: I don't know that we would continue to have that if it was reliant on the seven o'clock news.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker: They know things, yeah, they really do.
Speaker: Sometimes they tell me about things, and like I have to look that up.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they uh they really are quite brilliant.
Speaker 1: And by the way, I am jealous that you're a theater teacher.
Speaker 1: I actually should have mentioned I kind of started as a theater teacher.
Speaker 1: I was originally hired as I was a waiter at Applebee's.
Speaker 1: We love Applebee's okay.
Speaker 1: You know, I was I was living for those half-off appetizers.
Speaker 1: And so this basically, I I really am thankful that I had an extra Starbucks this this on this particular day.
Speaker 1: I had like two coffees coming off my shift at Target and going into Applebee's.
Speaker 1: And my who had become my first principal came in, sat at a table, and I was just like I said, extra coffee that day.
Speaker 1: I was really happy.
Speaker 1: I was, you know, in it, right?
Speaker 1: And it was his daughter's birthday, and I was just vibing with her.
Speaker 1: She was so she was cool, right?
Speaker 1: And we were just laughing and having a good time.
Speaker 1: And then he was like, Yo, have you ever worked with kids before?
Speaker 1: And I was like, Nope.
Speaker 1: And he's like, You should think about it.
Speaker 1: And he gave me his card.
Speaker 1: And um, he was a principal of a charter school, and so he kind of had me come in and kind of coached me through um getting my my teaching license.
Speaker 1: And honestly, there are times where I'm like, oh, I was never a student teacher, but then I realized I actually was a student teacher for like three years because I did a little bit of everything.
Speaker 1: I am so thankful for my time um at that school.
Speaker 1: It was amazing.
Speaker 1: But one of the things I kind of did to start was I was doing the little theater program.
Speaker 1: Like I directed the same show probably 25 times.
Speaker 1: And what I loved about being a theater teacher, and the reason I said I'm jealous, is not just because theater is amazing and fun, but because um I loved seeing kids who said they had no interest in it or they didn't want to do it, and then you put them on stage and they just become a completely different person.
Speaker 1: I've also noticed, and I want to know if you feel the same way, um people will always try and decide, they'll be like, oh, he's a theater person, she's a theater person.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, it in my experience, it was never the class clown that did good on stage.
Speaker 1: It was always the quiet kid that came alive on stage.
Speaker 1: I was like, I feel like you can so rarely like decide who's gonna do well on stage.
Speaker 1: It's like you almost never see it coming.
Speaker 1: It's like the kids you think are gonna do good on stage kind of clam up, and the kids who you're like, oh, I don't know if she can do, and then like explodes on stage.
Speaker 1: Like it's like this kind of a weird thing, you know?
Speaker 1: Um, I've always attributed it to for some people, speaking to an audience is easier than individuals.
Speaker 1: I mean, I know that's kind of how I felt when I was a kid.
Speaker: I would rather be behind a mic in front of a like behind a podium, up in front of a bunch of people, than to have to have a small talk conversation with people in a small group.
Speaker 1: Same.
Speaker: I think that there are different levels of students.
Speaker: There's like the student who knows this is their thing and this is what they want to do, and they will shine because they're like, this is my thing.
Speaker: And then there's students who are like, this is not my thing, I'm gonna be shy and quiet in here, and then they get up on stage and they're like phenomenal.
Speaker: And I had that experience this year with my middle schoolers.
Speaker: And then the class clown is really great at the small environment, they're really great with their 21 peers or whatever you know your class size is, but then when you get them in front of a bigger audience, they actually aren't necessarily the best for the bigger audience because there's this the thing with class clowns is there's a it's a not survival mechanism, it's a it's like a safety mechanism to make sure that they are liked within the group, but you can't get that reassurance from the audience except for applause.
Speaker: And if applause doesn't do it for you, if it has to be certain other things, it's gotta be like the right role for the class clown in order for it to really be something that thrives, unless they're a person who's decided this is my thing.
Speaker 1: As you said that, I heard Lady Gaga in my head go off.
Speaker: Applause.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker: We live for the applause.
Speaker: I want to talk a little bit about uh queerness, right?
Speaker: This is the Queering Education Podcast.
Speaker: We've talked a lot about your educational experience, which I love because I also am not a person who went the like the route that most people go for education, you know, right into a certificate program or a master's program where you get your licensure, but like came to it later after doing other things.
Speaker: I want to talk about how you feel like your identity show up and help shape you as an educator.
Speaker 1: Yikes.
Speaker 1: So when I first started teaching, the school that I worked at originally was in Florida.
Speaker 1: Um, and despite that, I would say that that community was always incredibly kind and incredibly affirming, and I always felt safe there.
Speaker 1: But there was always, and I imagine that many of the listeners will know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1: There is this weird kind of like you don't talk about that pressure.
Speaker 1: I don't really quite know how to describe it.
Speaker 1: It was weird because I came out at like 14 years old in South Mississippi in the early 2000s.
Speaker 1: So, I mean, that was something I I mean, I guess just being gay, I was never afraid of people knowing that, right?
Speaker 1: Or, you know, like any kind of like I was I was gonna work with it.
Speaker 1: I was always gonna work with it.
Speaker 1: But when I started teaching, I was always afraid that if people knew that I was going to like not be able to teach anymore, or that it was gonna be taken from me.
Speaker 1: I just felt like this kind of weird, crushing pressure to keep my mouth shut.
Speaker 1: When I got here to Portland, however, that I mean, as you can imagine, it's a little bit different here.
Speaker 1: It's a much more affirming culture, and so I've been able to come out here.
Speaker 1: And honestly, I mean, queerness factors into everything I do in the classroom.
Speaker 1: My classroom is so gay looking.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like everything is pink and rainbow, and it's a very I try, I try to make it a very happy and beautiful environment.
Speaker 1: And I think one of the most uh affirming things I ever got was one day a substitute left me a note that said, I love how gay and affirming your space is.
Speaker 1: And I was like, yes, that is absolutely the goal.
Speaker 1: But I also am the um I'm the advisor for our queer student alliance.
Speaker 1: And honestly, like when I think about the highlights of my job, that's definitely in the top three.
Speaker 1: We meet up once a week.
Speaker 1: A lot of times it's honestly just me creating a space for kids to come together and honestly just talk and feel safe and be in an environment where they can learn about queerness together.
Speaker 1: But I try really hard.
Speaker 1: Like, I take the role of being, I don't like using the word elder.
Speaker 1: It's so I'm young and beautiful and I don't age, but no, I do take that role very, very seriously.
Speaker 1: And I think to myself, a lot of times I may be the only like queer adult in their life, or maybe even the queer, the only queer person they know.
Speaker 1: So I take the role of like showing them our culture and teaching them our history, and I take that very, very seriously.
Speaker 1: I last year we actually took our first like field trip as a queer student alliance.
Speaker 1: I actually was able to get us a queer walking tour of downtown Portland, and um we learned so much together, and just you know, like I think one of the funniest moments we had was we actually got to go into the archives, and there was they had like set up this book of bug shots for us from like the um from like the 50s and One of the kids was just looking through it and excuse my language, but I am giving you a direct quote here.
Speaker 1: Like, she looked at me and she goes, Mr.
Speaker 1: Hoda, it's just hookers and gay boys.
Speaker 1: And I was like, I mean, yeah, yeah, pretty much.
Speaker 1: And it was just a really powerful moment because I remember having the discussion afterward about how much, like, you know, just being yourself, you'd be harassed and arrested or, you know, treated badly.
Speaker 1: And it was just, like I said, it was a really cool moment for us all to realize that we've always been around as a community and always had each other's backs.
Speaker 1: And, you know, that's something, a value I want to instill with them is to stay together and take care of themselves.
Speaker: I love that so much.
Speaker: And I love the idea of a queer field trip to get to know the queer community in your own like space, right?
Speaker: We can read about queer history in other spaces, but to be able to understand the queer history of our own community is powerful because I think that it helps you feel connected to something when oftentimes you can feel isolated.
Speaker 1: Queer is culture.
Speaker 1: Queer is absolutely culture.
Speaker 1: And I know that like a lot of people have, you know, there are differing opinions on that, but I will say that I am very pro like is culture.
Speaker: Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker: I'm wondering what you think that other people get wrong about queer educators and queer students and what our experiences are like.
Speaker 1: Well, for one thing, queer kids are real, they exist.
Speaker 1: And I I honestly I think that's the biggest one for me, like to advocate for, because you know, I think a lot of times people are really shocked to know that I I am the queer student on, you know, advisor, but in a middle school, right?
Speaker 1: Like people are like, you have that in a middle school?
Speaker 1: And I'm like, well, duh, there's you know, queer kids exist.
Speaker 1: I mean, you're looking at one, I was pretty, pretty gay.
Speaker 1: I think I was like six years old when I realized, you know, that I was a little bit different.
Speaker 1: And I think that's like the biggest thing is just acknowledging that they exist, acknowledging that they again have a history, they have a culture, and they have a perspective that needs to be respected and accommodated for.
Speaker 1: I think that's the most important thing as far.
Speaker 1: I think you asked what do people get wrong?
Speaker 1: Well, I I guess in on that front, I would just say that it's really, really important to have queer teachers.
Speaker 1: It's really important to have queer educators.
Speaker 1: I don't know that I've ever heard anyone say or emphasize we need to have queer, you know, we need to have a queer presence in this school, in this department, in this area.
Speaker 1: I don't think I've ever heard anyone like emphasize that.
Speaker 1: Um, because as I said, we have queer students, we have, we have queer populations in schools, and I think we need to have adults in the building that can be trusted adults that can set a good example that are there to, like I said, teach the culture, teach the history.
Speaker 1: And I think because I didn't have those adults in my life, a lot of times I'm learning.
Speaker 1: Like I'm sitting here telling you, we have queer history, we have queer culture.
Speaker 1: But a lot of times when I sit down, I'm like, okay, what is it?
Speaker 1: Like I know what it is, I feel it instinctually, but sometimes I'm like, what does that even mean?
Speaker 1: I'm endeavoring to teach these kids that we have this culture, but like I don't even know what it is, right?
Speaker 1: So sometimes it's like I have to like actually examine that myself and bring that, you know, like, and sometimes like I'll sit with this room full of self-identifying queer students, and you'll be amazed like the things they don't know.
Speaker 1: Like a silly thing, for example.
Speaker 1: I feel like everyone hearing me is gonna roll their eyes right now.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about Judy Garland, right?
Speaker 1: They didn't know who that was.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, okay, y'all, come on now.
Speaker 1: You're you're queer kids, you have to know who Judy Garland is.
Speaker 1: Um, and so I feel like we have to have these adults in these spaces, not because it's nice, not because it's cute, not because queer people just make everything, everything we touch is beautiful.
Speaker 1: You know, like we need them in the space for those kids because they're there and they need that representation.
Speaker 1: And not just for the queer kids, for the straight kids as well.
Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, the most powerful interaction I had this past school year, probably ever in my life, to be honest, was I have a student who very much does not identify as queer.
Speaker 1: But he came to my room during lunch one day because he had he had like this mess in his backpack and he was upset about it.
Speaker 1: I think it was like he his breakfast light had exploded in his it's middle school, these things happen.
Speaker 1: So his his breakfast had just like exploded, and he came to my room and he was really mad, and he was like cleaning it up, and he stopped what he was doing and he looked at me and he goes, Mr.
Speaker 1: Hoda, I'm sorry I'm interrupting your lunch.
Speaker 1: I was like, Oh no, it's no big deal, you're fine.
Speaker 1: And he goes, Yeah.
Speaker 1: He said, I just came to you first because honestly, you're kind of like my father figure, and this is the only space I really feel safe in.
Speaker 1: And I was just like, Wow, that felt almost scripted, like that was so kind and touching, and it was one of the most powerful experiences I ever had.
Speaker 1: And I I I really only relate that to this because I step back and I'm like, here is this kid who you know really values, like very, you know, Machismo kind of kid, really values his, you know, his masculinity, if you will.
Speaker 1: And then he's telling that I'm his father figure.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, you know, I think it's so important that we provide other versions of, you know, gender presentation, different versions of masculinity, because you never know who's going to learn from it and to grow from it.
Speaker: I think there's a really powerful lesson there that also is a misconception that people have.
Speaker: And it's not a misconception about queer teachers and queer students so much as queer spaces.
Speaker: And I think a lesson that can be taken from this story is that there's so many people who are like anti-safe space, anti-brave space.
Speaker: No safe space stickers up.
Speaker: We can't have that because it's actually excluding people.
Speaker: Like for some reason, having the everybody is welcome here sign in your room excludes me.
Speaker: It excludes me from that.
Speaker: I am not part of everyone.
Speaker: But the reality is by making safe and brave spaces, we are making them safe and brave for everyone.
Speaker: Everyone, quite literally, is welcome here, and we're all going to treat each other with respect.
Speaker: And I think that's the part that some parents have a problem with.
Speaker: They don't want their kids to respect people if they don't align with their beliefs.
Speaker: But like, quite literally, around the world, there are millions of different beliefs, and we all have to figure out how to get together and and work together.
Speaker 1: I am gonna present everybody, I'm gonna present every culture, every belief.
Speaker 1: But if you want to teach, it's not my job to teach your bigotry.
Speaker: Facts.
Speaker: And that's the thing about like queering education, is it's not like you were talking earlier about how Greco-Roman classics can be a tool for white supremacy.
Speaker: It doesn't mean stop teaching Greco-Roman classics, it means address that it can be a tool for white supremacy and also talk about what else it could be.
Speaker: That there's not just one way to do something.
Speaker: I think about that with theater education, right?
Speaker: Because a lot of theater education starts with Greco-Roman being like, this is the start of theater.
Speaker: It was, you know, it was Athens and it is the you know, Dionysus um theater, you know, it's it's these places.
Speaker: But realistically, there were tribes around the world acting out and telling stories around campfires before that happened.
Speaker: And they actually took those campfires and then they put them on a stage, and then later they added the fire again by adding candles to light it, right?
Speaker: So, like, this idea that this is the start of theater is not true, and we have to just address it.
Speaker: It's not true, but it's an important milestone in what theater becomes, and so it's like it's not about erasure so much as it's about reframing from a multicultural perspective.
Speaker 1: Oh, and if you want to blow their minds, whenever you're talking about the ancient world, just remind them that the pyramids were already ancient when the Colosseum went up.
Speaker 1: Cleopatra never saw the Sphinx because it was already buried under the sand by the time she ruled.
Speaker 1: Like, if you just draw a timeline, so many people are just blown away by how ancient Egypt is.
Speaker 1: And there are times I'm like, how can we say anything was the first when Egypt had already been around for thousands of years?
Speaker: 100%, 100%.
Speaker: And I think about that, the black culture, right?
Speaker: Egypt is an African nation now, and Egypt has always been in what we consider Africa, and this like dismantling idea of like, you know, it was whiteness that created all of these big and powerful places, but it's it's not all it's not always been true.
Speaker 1: The thing is, they didn't the the ancients didn't conceive of race the way that we do.
Speaker 1: No, like it didn't, they wouldn't have like you ask if someone in the ancient world liked the color of their skin, they they they wouldn't have even thought to describe that because they didn't think in those terms.
Speaker: 100%.
Speaker: And that's the crazy part to think about is it's just like all these people who are fighting things, like fighting these ideas of like gender being a social structure social construct.
Speaker: Well, race is a social construct, also.
Speaker: We're just born with skin, and then someone decided that there needed to be a hierarchy, and then we were all trained on what that was.
Speaker 1: I mean, one of my favorite things to do was when I teach mythology, I actually used this photography series that was done a few years ago by a Spanish photographer named Anna Martinez.
Speaker 1: She did a spread of based on each Greek god, but she used a black model.
Speaker 1: So that is pretty much exclusively when I present the gods to them, those are the images that I use.
Speaker 1: And you know, honestly, most of the time the kids don't even bat an eye, they just kind of accept it as it is.
Speaker 1: And every once in a while, like a student would say, I remember I showed Aphrodite, and one of the students came up to me and goes, Mr.
Speaker 1: Hoda, was she black?
Speaker 1: And I was just like, I mean, why not?
Speaker 1: Maybe she was.
Speaker 1: I said, I I think, you know what, right now, in this moment, between me and you, yes, Aphrodite is black.
Speaker 1: And I just remember her looking at it because she was a black student herself and just saying, She's so beautiful.
Speaker 2: And I'm like, Yeah, she is.
Speaker 1: She's the goddess of love and beauty.
Speaker 1: She defines what's beautiful, and she's black.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 1: And I think that's also one of, you know, one of the really important reasons why, like I mentioned earlier, we were talking about Helen of Troy.
Speaker 1: I think it's so important and really meaningful and amazing that we cast a black woman to play Helen of Troy.
Speaker 1: And it's not just about the whiteness, the perceived whiteness of the ancient world, it's also because Helen of Troy is we when we say Helen of Troy, we are taught we mean the most beautiful woman who ever walked the earth, right?
Speaker 1: And our beauty standard is infamously white.
Speaker 1: So when we cast a black woman to play Helen of Troy, like that is literally that's culture changing.
Speaker 1: Like that is huge.
Speaker 1: And I think it's honestly, and I don't know that that was on anyone's mind when they were casting Helen of Troy, but damn it, I'm glad they did it because they have just, you know, they have potentially just warped our beauty standard a little bit in, you know, toward justice.
Speaker 1: And it, you know, I just I'm so happy that this has happened.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And they've done it in a medium that is very visual.
Speaker: Whereas we have stories and we have and part of the problem is we have white marble, we have white marble statues of all these people.
Speaker: There isn't there is no skin tone to the statues.
Speaker: There's no they were not white back in the day either.
Speaker: Right?
Speaker: You're top we're talking Mediterranean, we're talking, you know, sun-baked skin.
Speaker: And so it's just interesting to me, you know, that people struggle with the idea of race being a social construct when it's so clear.
Speaker: It's so clear.
Speaker: But I digress, and I don't want to digress too far.
Speaker: I do want to shout out that people should go look at that that photography.
Speaker: It is stunning.
Speaker: Like, there are some of those gods where I'm like, damn, whoo, these are beautiful beings.
Speaker: And so please, please go go check it out.
Speaker: Like, take a moment.
Speaker: It's wonderful.
Speaker: As we wrap up, I have a couple of I have a couple of questions for you.
Speaker: First and foremost, what is bringing you queer joy right now?
Speaker 1: Can it just be joy in general?
Speaker 1: It can be careful.
Speaker 1: So at my school, we have these these courtyards.
Speaker 1: And the entire time I've wear, and they're gorgeous, they're so pretty.
Speaker 1: But the entire time that I've worked there, no one really does anything out there.
Speaker 1: They just kind of become overgrown until like the PTA goes out and then they cut everything down, and then it looks maintained for like five minutes and then it grows again.
Speaker 1: Well, I've I've been hearing, like, you know, for the past several years, I've someone's always saying, Oh, someone should do something with the courtyard.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, Well, someone could be me.
Speaker 1: So I am someone.
Speaker 1: So I wanted to do something out there that tied Portland history, science, actually a little bit of indirectly, a little bit of mythology.
Speaker 1: I wanted to do something that kind of brought all this together.
Speaker 1: And so I decided let's turn one of the courtyards into a test rose garden.
Speaker 1: And um it was also like uh it was honestly just so many things that were happening.
Speaker 1: Um, Portland is kind of having a bit of a budget crisis right now.
Speaker 1: And about that time was they had announced that they were gonna be closing about five of our PPS schools.
Speaker 1: And you know, my thought was immediately, I'm like, well, we're gonna, it's gonna be us.
Speaker 1: Like my I just always assume the the the worst, right?
Speaker 1: Fortunately, it is not going to be us, but at that moment, I was like, it's definitely gonna be us.
Speaker 1: And so I was like, I guess like I went into like this survivor mode, and I'm just like, do something cool, make this make our school a jewel.
Speaker 1: So I was like, I'm gonna turn it into a rose garden.
Speaker 1: And I used a donor's juice, and I got all the supplies that we needed.
Speaker 1: We had a really accomplished rosarian in our neighborhood who passed away, and his kids didn't want his roses to just kind of go by the wayside.
Speaker 1: So I went and got them and I planted them.
Speaker 1: So it's and we're gonna probably wind up naming the garden after him, actually.
Speaker 1: But ever over the summer, my husband absolutely loves this.
Speaker 1: But I'm going out there every other day and weeding and watering, and honestly, not to brag, but I'm gonna brag.
Speaker 1: That garden is gorgeous, and I feel so good about it, and I cannot wait for them to come back in fall because I feel like the kids' jaws are just gonna drop when they look out there because I have power washed it, I have weeded it, I have trimmed like trees, I have trimmed bushes, and I have planted and mulched, and the kids are gonna be involved with it.
Speaker 1: The kids at the end of the year actually helped me start it, and they want to.
Speaker 1: That's the that is the weird part, is I thought I was going to have to like pull teeth to get them out there.
Speaker 1: They want to, they want to go out there.
Speaker 1: They're asking me if they can weed, they're asking me like Mr.
Speaker 1: Hoda, what color is that rose, or what's the name of that one?
Speaker 1: And so honestly, that is bringing me so much joy.
Speaker 1: I love gardening, I love those roses, and I'm just so excited for the kids to see it in fall.
Speaker: I love that so much.
Speaker: I also love working in the ground, so I think that's an awesome thing to do with students, especially when we are constantly disconnected from the earth and connected to a device.
Speaker 1: Can I have a cutting of that one?
Speaker 1: Like the things they're asking me, and I it's what I know.
Speaker 1: I'm sure most teachers can identify with this, that moment where you're like, I didn't even think they were gonna be that into it.
Speaker 1: Or I thought, oh, I'm gonna teach this just because it makes me happy, but I don't think the kids are really they're into it, and they're just like suddenly obsessed with it.
Speaker 1: I also just as a side note, like that happened in fall when I was teaching them about illegal mercury mining uh in Mexico.
Speaker 1: I didn't why on earth did I had no idea that they would be so into that, and they were literally still asking me about that at the end of the year, like they were extremely passionate about that and blew my mind.
Speaker 1: I had no idea.
Speaker: That's awesome.
Speaker 1: What a what an interesting thing to be connected to.
Speaker 1: I think a lot of times when you introduce a standard to them, like we all have these standards, right?
Speaker 1: If you can tie it to something that's real, if you can like show them something in the world, an injustice, a uh, you know, an evil, and you say, Hey, you know how I'm teaching you about the toxicity of mercury?
Speaker 1: This is why this matters, because this is what's happening in Mexico, and then they're taking it into Colombia to amalgamate gold.
Speaker 1: And you know, it's like, and this is how that's poisoning the environment, but we can't just stop that because the people in Mexico who are doing this mining have nothing else, and if you take this from them, how are they gonna live their lives?
Speaker 1: So, like, what do we do, guys?
Speaker 1: And and you know, and I give them a disclaimer, I'm like, look, I'm not an expert on this, I read about it yesterday.
Speaker 1: So I want to know what do you all think?
Speaker 1: And they are still worried about it, and they're still asking me about it.
Speaker 1: And like I said, we we just have to tie these standards to real world things, and if they feel like they can make a difference with it, it matters to them.
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: Last question What is something that you want queer educators to hear right now in this moment?
Speaker 1: If being gay is a choice, be gayer.
Speaker 1: Like bring it to class, be you, because like I said, I think it's come up a few times in our conversation.
Speaker 1: I it it blows my mind how just being me has provided a safe space.
Speaker 1: I I you know, and it never ceases to, you know, amaze me once, maybe twice a year.
Speaker 1: I'll get a social media message or an email from a student I had, you know, five or six years ago that's just like, you know, thank you for being you.
Speaker 1: You, you know, I didn't know gay people.
Speaker 1: You made you made me feel safe.
Speaker 1: You made me feel like I could be me.
Speaker 1: And it'll always be a student where I'm like, I didn't like perform for you.
Speaker 1: I wasn't like, you know, trying to encourage you, and I just being me did.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, of course I want to encourage all students, but you you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Like, I I didn't say you.
Speaker 1: I want to inspire you to be yourself.
Speaker 1: It just me living my life and having rainbows all over everything, you know, taught them.
Speaker 1: And I I guess the point is they're always watching and they're always listening and they're always learning.
Speaker 1: You know, in the good days and the bad.
Speaker: Thank you for being a part of Queering Education.
Speaker: This is a Teaching Well Queer podcast.
Speaker: Take what you need from this conversation and bring it back into your classroom and your students.
Speaker: I'm Brian Stanton.
Speaker: Until next time, keep showing up.