WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.280 Three teachers reported me to admin for breaking district policy. 00:00:05.919 --> 00:00:08.960 Like, there aren't kids here. 00:00:12.960 --> 00:00:18.559 Welcome to Queering Education, where we challenge what school is and build what it should be. 00:00:18.719 --> 00:00:20.079 I'm Brian Stanton. 00:00:20.239 --> 00:00:28.239 This is a Teaching While Queer podcast about inclusive teaching, queer pedagogy, and showing up authentically in every classroom. 00:00:28.559 --> 00:00:30.719 Alright, let's do the work. 00:00:35.200 --> 00:00:41.359 Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of Queering Education, a Teaching While Queer podcast. 00:00:41.439 --> 00:00:43.280 I have your host, Brian Stanton. 00:00:43.359 --> 00:00:44.399 My pronouns are they, them. 00:00:44.880 --> 00:00:48.479 And today I have the privilege of speaking with Alex Holford. 00:00:48.640 --> 00:00:49.759 How are you doing, Alex? 00:00:50.079 --> 00:00:50.719 I'm doing well. 00:00:50.799 --> 00:00:52.240 My pronouns are also they them. 00:00:52.719 --> 00:00:53.520 Oh, sweet. 00:00:53.679 --> 00:00:54.079 Welcome. 00:00:54.240 --> 00:00:56.479 And can you tell us more about yourself? 00:00:56.960 --> 00:01:02.799 Um, yeah, so I'm a special education teacher who's been teaching for 15 years. 00:01:03.119 --> 00:01:05.840 11 of those have been in the self-contained classroom. 00:01:06.079 --> 00:01:15.840 Um, I also realized three, four years ago that I was non-binary, um, and so been navigating that new world um and kind of jumped in headfirst. 00:01:16.079 --> 00:01:27.760 Um, I was a founder for KD Pride, I do a queer support group, I do a trans support group, and I um help the Transparent Closet, which gives free clothes to trans kids. 00:01:28.079 --> 00:01:29.200 I love that so much. 00:01:29.359 --> 00:01:32.319 I uh I started this podcast in San Antonio. 00:01:32.400 --> 00:01:41.280 Um, so I'm very familiar with your area because I've I've been around um back and forth for different events and conferences and visits with family. 00:01:41.439 --> 00:01:47.200 Um and I I appreciate one of two things. 00:01:47.280 --> 00:01:49.760 Uh I will appreciate you in multiple realms. 00:01:49.840 --> 00:01:51.439 I appreciate people in multiple realms. 00:01:51.599 --> 00:02:06.079 Um, but one that you're doing the work on uh on identity and like understanding yourself even in environments that are not necessarily safe for that, and two, that you're doing it in a way that is visible. 00:02:06.480 --> 00:02:10.000 Um, because I definitely experienced some of that. 00:02:10.159 --> 00:02:25.439 I started my non-binary journey, um, or my I call it my gender expression journey uh while I was in Texas, um, and definitely have been the the receiving end of some side eye. 00:02:25.520 --> 00:02:27.439 Not that that changed when I moved to New York City. 00:02:27.520 --> 00:02:32.159 I still get side eye, but um there's something about blue hair. 00:02:32.319 --> 00:02:33.680 People are like, what? 00:02:34.240 --> 00:02:35.280 What are you doing? 00:02:35.439 --> 00:02:36.879 I'm like, I'm looking fabulous. 00:02:36.960 --> 00:02:37.680 What's your problem? 00:02:37.759 --> 00:02:42.319 Um tell my friends that this hair isn't for me, it's for others. 00:02:42.879 --> 00:02:47.360 Um, because it's a visual signifier to the community that I'm a non-binary person. 00:02:47.599 --> 00:02:51.919 Um if you know, you know, but if you don't, it's just is a weird haircut. 00:02:53.199 --> 00:02:56.400 Yeah, I fully appreciate that and understand. 00:02:56.479 --> 00:03:04.080 I do there are specific things that I do um to wear my gender expression. 00:03:04.240 --> 00:03:07.439 Um and you know, Judith Butler, sorry, I'm a nerd. 00:03:07.599 --> 00:03:14.240 Judith Butler would say that it would be a perform performing gender, which I think is quite true that we all do that. 00:03:14.479 --> 00:03:25.280 Um and so I do a lot of performing gender neutral and gender non-binary for other people's sake because it really doesn't impact my identity. 00:03:25.360 --> 00:03:30.319 But I do get to understand my comfortability with masculinity and femininity by doing so. 00:03:30.400 --> 00:03:37.360 Um, and understand where like they're not hard lines, but things that I'm less comfortable with as just an expression of myself. 00:03:37.439 --> 00:03:39.520 Um what brings you joy and what doesn't. 00:03:39.840 --> 00:03:40.400 Exactly that. 00:03:40.639 --> 00:03:41.520 What sparks joy? 00:03:41.599 --> 00:03:42.879 Okay, Marie Kondo. 00:03:43.280 --> 00:03:55.680 Um so let's talk a little bit about what got you into education and specifically special education, because it really takes a wonderful like person to be in a special education classroom. 00:03:55.840 --> 00:04:07.039 Some of my favorite classes I've taught as a theater educator were specifically with our students from the self-contained room that actually they would venture out for my class for the elective. 00:04:07.280 --> 00:04:20.240 Um, and I loved it so much, and there's some of my fondest educational memories is working with uh with my students in what we called unified theater, which was an extension of the Special Special Olympics. 00:04:20.480 --> 00:04:24.079 Um, so how did you find yourself on that path? 00:04:24.399 --> 00:04:30.240 So when I was in first grade, I wanted to be a dinosaur, and I was in second grade, I wanted to be a teacher. 00:04:31.680 --> 00:04:35.519 Well, and from second grade, I knew I was gonna teach from that point on. 00:04:35.680 --> 00:04:38.240 Um, my entire family are band directors. 00:04:38.399 --> 00:04:43.360 Um, I've been steeped in education, um, and knew that world wasn't for me. 00:04:43.680 --> 00:04:49.040 Um, but my grandparents lived in Mexico, and so I actually went to school for bilingual education. 00:04:49.360 --> 00:05:05.199 Um and my last semester before student teaching, we did a block class, and I selected special education, and I got put in a life schools class, which is a self-contained classroom, and I was like, oh, I need this, I need this every day. 00:05:05.360 --> 00:05:08.160 This is what I want from now on forever. 00:05:08.480 --> 00:05:18.319 Um, and so I graduated and I started teaching in second grade and I got my SED certification and I moved and I was a kind of rocky process to get where I wanted to be. 00:05:18.480 --> 00:05:30.560 But once I got in self-contained, I started with the littles, um, three to six year olds, and then life skills um first grade through fifth grade, and then now I'm actually in um what's called YCAP. 00:05:30.800 --> 00:05:50.560 It's an autism program, and so my students are mostly aggressive, high behavior, low communication students, and we're teaching them the skills to cope and communicate so that they can go to theater in junior high and high school um without hurting themselves or others just from the obwomeness of it all. 00:05:50.959 --> 00:05:52.240 I love that so much. 00:05:52.319 --> 00:06:16.240 Um, I also think that being bilingual is an asset in working in special education, especially in Texas, and I'm assuming in other border states um with near Mexico, because quite a few of my students um couldn't communicate in English, and the I the um the process of like ESL was relatively difficult, right? 00:06:16.480 --> 00:06:24.079 And so the the educators who were able to communicate with them in Spanish actually found a lot of uh a progress. 00:06:24.319 --> 00:06:39.839 And so I think that um that's something that people don't necessarily consider when they're thinking about um folks with uh disabilities, is that there is intersectionality in the within their identities also and within their experiences. 00:06:40.160 --> 00:06:42.639 I mean, it's definitely helped some of my kids. 00:06:42.879 --> 00:06:49.680 Um it's helped my parents more because I can talk to them a little bit easier sometimes. 00:06:49.920 --> 00:06:55.199 Um, but for self-contained people don't understand too, is like I rely on other people. 00:06:55.360 --> 00:07:13.680 I have a team of eight people that work with me in two different classrooms, and they're lawyers and engineers in Venezuela and Venezuela, they have master's degrees, and here they're a pair that's getting minimum wage and trying to get their degree validated by this by the country. 00:07:13.920 --> 00:07:23.600 And so their English may not be to my English, but my Spanish is not to their Spanish, and you know, it's been very helpful and it's helped me speak more Spanish in my work environment. 00:07:23.839 --> 00:07:33.279 Um, I mean, the kids for sure, but everyone around your school, especially Texas, is gonna have other languages um that we need to be aware of and respectful for. 00:07:33.680 --> 00:07:34.639 Yeah, absolutely. 00:07:34.800 --> 00:07:51.600 And I think that um what you just said is a huge uh mark of a problem with the education department at the moment, is the um refusal to recognize expertise from other countries as if getting a doctorate in another country is somehow lesser. 00:07:51.759 --> 00:08:10.879 Um I actually have a friend, she has an educational doctorate from Oxford University in the UK, and in New York City or New York State is having trouble with them recognizing her doctorate as a full uh doctoral experience because it's shorter in the UK. 00:08:11.279 --> 00:08:17.759 It's not a five-year program like it is uh in the US, and I'm like, that's fiscally responsible, man. 00:08:18.000 --> 00:08:20.319 Um but like it's Oxford. 00:08:20.480 --> 00:08:20.879 It's Oxford. 00:08:21.199 --> 00:08:23.199 I know it's what you do in university. 00:08:23.360 --> 00:08:24.399 I'm so confused. 00:08:24.480 --> 00:08:30.879 It's like the one of the most prestigious when I think of like um universities in the UK. 00:08:31.199 --> 00:08:34.080 It is like the first one that pops into my brain. 00:08:34.159 --> 00:08:37.759 It's like Oxford and Cambridge, and that is that's my knowledge. 00:08:37.840 --> 00:08:44.080 That's the extent of what I've got, other than some of the universities that people work at that I've spoken with on the podcast. 00:08:44.320 --> 00:09:10.720 So I think that our education department, hopefully under future management one day, will need to assess what why there is this inferior inferiority complex when it comes to outside um degree programs, because I really I've looked at some degrees that are based in Mexico because I wanted to um expand also on my language acquisition. 00:09:10.879 --> 00:09:30.480 Um, and while the program is in English uh and it's virtual, in order for it to be accepted here as a doctorate when you're going to like work at a university or whatnot, there's a whole years-long route that you have to take for it to be validated, and I just find that wild. 00:09:32.080 --> 00:09:40.960 Um, we've never talked about this on the podcast, so thanks for bringing that up because it is as uh it is a problem that needs to be addressed. 00:09:42.080 --> 00:09:51.120 So I'm curious how your queerness um shows up in your work in education. 00:09:52.000 --> 00:09:54.639 Um so a lot of it's appearance. 00:09:54.799 --> 00:10:00.080 Again, my kids are nonverbal mostly low communication, they're not worried about pronouns in my classroom. 00:10:00.240 --> 00:10:06.320 Um I tell them to call me age, but I get called all sorts of things by my kids when they can communicate. 00:10:06.559 --> 00:10:12.000 Um, but I'm pres I'm around the school, and so I wear a lot of rainbow shirts. 00:10:12.159 --> 00:10:18.399 I my lanyard is a non-binary flag, and the lanyard holder is a non-binary flag, and it's intentional. 00:10:18.639 --> 00:10:34.080 Um, Katie has some really strict um anti-trans litigation and policies, and so I can't tell anyone at work my pronouns um as Holdford, as teacher Holdford. 00:10:34.240 --> 00:10:36.320 I can say, hey, call me H. 00:10:36.720 --> 00:10:40.159 I can talk to any private one-on-one conversation I want to have. 00:10:40.639 --> 00:10:46.240 Um, but I can't like say, hey, all my parents, you know, here's my pronouns, please use them. 00:10:46.320 --> 00:10:47.679 I I can't do that. 00:10:48.000 --> 00:10:54.080 Um what I can do that's not against policy is get a tattoo that says they them. 00:10:56.320 --> 00:11:08.639 Um and so when I give handshakes and I'm around their kids and my language is a non-binary and it they can see it on my wrist because I'm wearing short sleeves all the time, I'm presenting myself in a way that is queer. 00:11:08.720 --> 00:11:10.000 I'm not wearing skirts to work. 00:11:10.159 --> 00:11:12.320 Even if I was a ciswoman, I wouldn't wear skirts to work. 00:11:12.399 --> 00:11:13.679 My kids go under them. 00:11:13.919 --> 00:11:17.360 Um, my females in my team are not wearing skirts to work. 00:11:17.600 --> 00:11:24.000 Um, but I try to find clothes that are more affirming to me, um, be a lot as I can. 00:11:24.159 --> 00:11:27.600 And the parents who are supportive show up. 00:11:27.759 --> 00:11:28.799 Um, oh my god. 00:11:28.960 --> 00:11:37.360 One of my parents um bought me nail polish for my birthday and I almost cried because it was just so affirming. 00:11:37.840 --> 00:11:44.159 Um and some, you know, blatantly ignore it, but it's never been an issue with my parents. 00:11:44.799 --> 00:11:45.679 But they know. 00:11:46.000 --> 00:11:46.399 I love that. 00:11:46.480 --> 00:11:54.960 I it's so interesting as someone who had worked in Texas um also that I never experienced a lot of problems from my parents. 00:11:55.440 --> 00:11:58.000 Not my parents from my program. 00:11:58.639 --> 00:12:05.759 Um there was always a lot of conversation from people who had nothing to do with me from the outside looking in. 00:12:05.919 --> 00:12:20.720 And then when I left the first school that I was teaching at, all of a sudden, since the rainbow flag bearer was no longer there, they like did a complete 180 and were like, no rainbows in the classroom unless it's a specifically sanctioned like club or organization. 00:12:20.799 --> 00:12:25.120 So I had teachers being like, send me the logo for the the saga club. 00:12:25.200 --> 00:12:30.080 Uh, we need to make mask shirts immediately because we're not allowed to have safe space up anymore. 00:12:30.159 --> 00:12:36.159 We're not allowed to have the Trevor Project emergency line, crisis lifeline on the phone on the wall anymore. 00:12:36.240 --> 00:12:38.559 We're not allowed to do these things that are specific. 00:12:38.879 --> 00:12:43.679 And it and I I get frustrated because there are two things that would have happened. 00:12:43.759 --> 00:12:46.960 If I would have stayed, I would have been fired, possibly arrested. 00:12:47.120 --> 00:12:58.799 Um or two, the other option is that they wouldn't have done it because they wouldn't, I would have been too vocal of a person to fight against. 00:12:58.960 --> 00:13:00.080 I was their teacher of the year. 00:13:01.519 --> 00:13:09.279 I was the teacher of the year when when I um when I left, and it wasn't until two years after the state law was impacted. 00:13:09.360 --> 00:13:10.159 But I saw it. 00:13:10.240 --> 00:13:15.039 It happened in small spaces, it happened in school board meetings, right? 00:13:15.600 --> 00:13:27.840 And it's like I love this because um my experience was TEA, Texas Educational Association, had a training that we had to do about pronouns. 00:13:28.799 --> 00:13:39.200 And then we did the work with pronouns the next school year, and then all of the parents, like all of these conservative parents started throwing a fit about pronouns being used. 00:13:39.360 --> 00:13:49.120 Um meanwhile, like we were told by Texas Education Association to do this training, and it's like the people who were running it did not know it existed. 00:13:49.440 --> 00:13:59.279 Um and and so all of this started to ripple into other things that have drastically changed the environment of the state. 00:13:59.519 --> 00:14:10.080 And I actively right now am helping educators who are either queer or have queer children find jobs in other states and figure out reciprocity. 00:14:10.240 --> 00:14:30.159 One of the resources on the Teaching While Queer website is a link to teacher certification reciprocity and how you can take your certification in your state and what states you can go to with it, because there have been such drastic changes, especially in southern states, that feel dangerous. 00:14:30.399 --> 00:14:33.360 It's not just like don't ask, don't tell. 00:14:33.519 --> 00:14:40.320 It's like if we even have an inkling or if someone says which, we're gonna burn you. 00:14:40.559 --> 00:14:43.279 Um as Lohan, as long as no one talks, it's fine. 00:14:43.360 --> 00:14:45.440 But the second someone says something, it's over. 00:14:45.759 --> 00:14:46.799 Yeah, absolutely. 00:14:46.960 --> 00:14:50.559 And it's funny because when I was leaving, I was a theater educator, right, in San Antonio. 00:14:50.720 --> 00:14:54.480 When I was leaving, Katie was in the news because they had just passed something. 00:14:54.799 --> 00:15:18.879 Um TEA had made some sanction about like drag, uh, or a law had had existed about or was being debated about drag performances for children, and Katie pulled a production of uh a touring production of James and the Giant Peach because a male presenting actor was going to play Miss Spider. 00:15:19.919 --> 00:15:31.360 A male presenting human being was going to play a spider that was female presenting, and so they pulled the performance from coming to their elementary school, and I'm like, it's James and the Giant Peach. 00:15:31.600 --> 00:15:40.080 Yeah, like of all things roll doll is not like the epitome of like PC. 00:15:41.039 --> 00:15:48.159 Like he had his own flaws when he was alive, and some of the stuff that he did were problematic. 00:15:48.320 --> 00:15:54.879 So the fact that you're like, I'm gonna pull roll doll because of an actor is insane. 00:15:55.039 --> 00:16:00.960 And when that happened, I turned to the theater education associations and I was like, this is gonna become a problem for you. 00:16:01.039 --> 00:16:15.600 You're not gonna be able to use um the plethora of girl students that a high school program will have in your in your productions in paint roles or in mail roles because people are gonna throw a fit, I'm just preparing you, and they're like, no, no. 00:16:16.159 --> 00:16:19.679 The legislator says this will not affect educational theater. 00:16:20.879 --> 00:16:21.440 It did. 00:16:21.759 --> 00:16:22.159 It did. 00:16:22.639 --> 00:16:23.120 It did. 00:16:23.360 --> 00:16:23.840 Yeah. 00:16:24.879 --> 00:16:31.440 Um gosh, it's such a such an interesting, we're living through such an interesting timeline. 00:16:32.000 --> 00:16:32.559 Could we not? 00:16:32.799 --> 00:16:33.919 Can what? 00:16:34.080 --> 00:16:38.480 Could we not absolutely reset, please? 00:16:38.720 --> 00:16:40.720 Where's um Doctor Strange? 00:16:40.879 --> 00:16:43.440 Um to rewind things. 00:16:43.679 --> 00:16:58.320 Um I want to talk a little bit about what it was like for you to start your your gender expression journey and and doing that in the educational field, especially, you know, in Texas. 00:16:58.960 --> 00:17:08.799 Yeah, so um ironically, KDS ISD is what helped me realize my gender identity. 00:17:09.599 --> 00:17:15.359 Um so I was going to this church and we did a fashion show, and I did some gender non-conforming looks. 00:17:15.519 --> 00:17:21.279 Um and I wore skirts for the fashion show for the first time from the Transparent Closet, an amazing organization. 00:17:21.359 --> 00:17:23.039 I'll talk about a little bit later. 00:17:23.359 --> 00:17:28.400 Um and I was like, okay, you know, I think maybe like a they, he or he, they. 00:17:28.960 --> 00:17:31.119 I'm gonna start trying with some friends. 00:17:31.279 --> 00:17:37.119 Um you know, but like I'll never be they then because I'm gonna have to be he at work, and it's fine. 00:17:37.359 --> 00:17:44.480 Um, you know, I can just be they, he, and I can be they with my friend group and he at work or other places, and I'm not gonna that's that's fine. 00:17:44.880 --> 00:17:50.160 Um and then KDSD did a gender policy, and I was like, no, this sucks. 00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:51.680 This sucks. 00:17:52.400 --> 00:17:57.920 Um and if I if they're saying I can't be they anywhere, then I'm just then that's it. 00:17:58.000 --> 00:18:00.000 Like we're gonna try that for a little bit. 00:18:00.319 --> 00:18:07.200 Um and I tried it on like a pair of pants, and they fit really good, um, and brought me a lot of joy. 00:18:07.440 --> 00:18:20.160 And so I was fortunate enough to have um we had a a staff meeting um about this and what we could and couldn't say and how she didn't want to have this meeting, but she had to have this meeting, and yada yada. 00:18:20.799 --> 00:18:25.519 Um and so I went to her and I was like, look, I'm non-binary, this is affecting me. 00:18:25.599 --> 00:18:28.640 Like, this is the district saying they don't want me to exist. 00:18:29.359 --> 00:18:33.200 Um I'm really upset, like I want to quit teaching. 00:18:33.599 --> 00:18:35.440 And she was really supportive. 00:18:35.599 --> 00:18:38.559 Um, and they took steps that year. 00:18:38.720 --> 00:18:40.319 Um, they took Mr. 00:18:40.480 --> 00:18:41.599 off of my box, they took Mr. 00:18:41.839 --> 00:18:43.119 off of my wall. 00:18:43.440 --> 00:18:50.720 Um, you know, they couldn't correct anybody, they couldn't do certain things, but they worked to be gender neutral around me. 00:18:50.960 --> 00:19:00.799 Um, and it was really affirming, and I was really lucky, and then as policies have changed and changed from the state level, that's kind of um been reduced. 00:19:01.359 --> 00:19:07.119 Um, but I've always wanted to explore femininity, and it never felt super safe. 00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:12.319 And once I realized that it just wasn't safe at all, then I kind of stopped caring. 00:19:12.720 --> 00:19:17.519 If there was no safe way to explore, then dive in. 00:19:17.680 --> 00:19:20.960 So I started painting my nails, um, which aren't painted today. 00:19:21.039 --> 00:19:22.160 I'm annoyed about it. 00:19:22.400 --> 00:19:26.400 Um, I tried some different hairstyles, I started looking into the things. 00:19:26.640 --> 00:19:30.559 Um, my wardrobe already had a lot of bright colors in it, so that didn't change too much. 00:19:30.640 --> 00:19:36.400 But I tried some women's pants that had different colors or fit differently, and it's just subtle things. 00:19:36.559 --> 00:20:05.200 And um one thing I did is I started putting non-binary stickers on my coffee cups because they have dress code policies and things like that, but they don't have um policies regarding personal goods like coffee cups, and just finding the ways that I could push that expression um with my team and myself to just be more comfortable and not hide who I am. 00:20:36.730 --> 00:20:41.529 Yeah, I think that's fantastic, and I also think about being subversive in interesting ways. 00:20:41.690 --> 00:20:50.650 For instance, I'm going to teach at a conference later on today, and I have this outfit that I got for the Pride Day at the middle school that I was teaching at last year. 00:20:50.810 --> 00:21:01.370 Um, and our middle school had class in June, so we had our like we had Pride Month and we had specific Pride Day where it was like wear bright colors or whatever. 00:21:01.529 --> 00:21:06.009 So I chose to color block uh the genderqueer flag. 00:21:06.090 --> 00:21:09.450 Uh and so I have a purple purple shirt on. 00:21:09.610 --> 00:21:15.850 For those of you who are listening, I have a purple shirt on, I have a white belt, and my shirt is tucked in, I have a white belt and I have green pants. 00:21:16.009 --> 00:21:19.050 Um, so I am effectively the genderqueer flag. 00:21:19.210 --> 00:21:35.690 And I also have done the same thing with a non-binary flag where I have a yellow shirt and then purple and uh white and black, and I will layer myself in a way that is blatant but subversive. 00:21:36.009 --> 00:21:38.970 Um because you have to know to know. 00:21:39.850 --> 00:21:47.610 Uh, and what I love about uh the non-binary sticker that you just brought up is that it's a sticker of a figure, right? 00:21:47.690 --> 00:21:52.410 It's a cartoon, but it's color blocked with the non-binary flag on it. 00:21:52.570 --> 00:22:05.850 So again, it's done in a way where you have to know to know, and so it's a signal, it's important for the people who are in the community, for the people who are exploring the community. 00:22:06.090 --> 00:22:08.890 And children, especially children, they do. 00:22:09.050 --> 00:22:13.289 I had fifth graders telling me about their flags because we had all the flags up, right? 00:22:13.370 --> 00:22:16.890 Um, all the queer pride flags in the the school. 00:22:16.970 --> 00:22:18.570 And I had fifth graders being like, Mr. 00:22:18.650 --> 00:22:20.570 Stanton, can I show you my flag? 00:22:20.810 --> 00:22:21.850 And I was like, sure. 00:22:22.009 --> 00:22:24.890 And they walked over to the lesbian flag and they were like, This is my flag. 00:22:25.050 --> 00:22:26.890 And I was like, sick, love that for you. 00:22:27.050 --> 00:22:29.529 And I walked over to my flag and I was like, This is my flag. 00:22:29.690 --> 00:22:36.330 Um And they observe and they are more aware than we ever were at their age. 00:22:36.490 --> 00:22:36.810 Oh my god. 00:22:37.050 --> 00:22:40.730 So if we have those subtle hints, it's enough. 00:22:40.890 --> 00:22:41.610 It is enough. 00:22:41.769 --> 00:22:44.330 It doesn't have to necessarily be loud and proud. 00:22:44.490 --> 00:22:49.130 It can be a sticker that is a cartoon that has the colors in them. 00:22:49.450 --> 00:22:50.090 Yeah. 00:22:50.490 --> 00:22:53.529 Um, I did get in trouble one day for it. 00:22:53.769 --> 00:22:55.289 Um, it was an in-service day. 00:22:55.370 --> 00:22:56.730 There were no kids on campus. 00:22:57.529 --> 00:22:59.050 An in-service day, are you kidding me? 00:22:59.450 --> 00:23:00.490 An in-service day. 00:23:00.650 --> 00:23:07.050 And I it was the first day of in-service, and I wore a t-shirt where the top half was they and the bottom half was them. 00:23:08.250 --> 00:23:14.890 And three teachers reported me to admin for breaking district policy. 00:23:15.210 --> 00:23:17.370 And a week later I got pulled in. 00:23:17.850 --> 00:23:20.650 Um and the lawyers got notified. 00:23:20.810 --> 00:23:22.730 HR got notified, they're trying to figure out how to handle it. 00:23:22.810 --> 00:23:23.850 Did I break it? 00:23:24.090 --> 00:23:26.650 And I asked for a copy of the policy, I didn't get it. 00:23:26.810 --> 00:23:31.610 Um, I decided not to push it, and because I was like, honestly at that point, word for my job. 00:23:31.769 --> 00:23:32.090 Yeah, yeah. 00:23:32.330 --> 00:23:34.490 I was like, I I'm wearing a t-shirt. 00:23:34.650 --> 00:23:42.330 Like, you three people, more people have a church shirt or church quote or whatever, but I can't wear two words on my shirt and a graphic tee. 00:23:42.410 --> 00:23:44.490 Like, there aren't kids here. 00:23:44.570 --> 00:23:48.650 If their kids were here, you'd have a really strong case for a breaking policy. 00:23:48.890 --> 00:23:54.090 Um, but like the policies about teaching children pronouns exist. 00:23:54.490 --> 00:23:56.170 They know they exist, they do. 00:23:56.410 --> 00:24:00.810 Um but or about telling someone to call you something. 00:24:00.970 --> 00:24:01.370 I didn't do that. 00:24:01.450 --> 00:24:03.370 I didn't have it, it was just a shirt. 00:24:04.090 --> 00:24:09.930 It was just a shirt on a day where it was just adults, and I think that right there is wild. 00:24:10.090 --> 00:24:21.370 And that's where people are messing up with policy right now, is because nothing is clear, nothing is definitively written in a way that says do this or that. 00:24:21.450 --> 00:24:30.890 It's up for interpretation, and that's when school districts bring in the lawyers, and then the lawyers interpret the law when that's really not their job. 00:24:31.370 --> 00:24:36.250 Yeah, it's the job of judges and legislators to like provide guidance. 00:24:36.410 --> 00:24:46.890 Um, but they're so afraid to say the quiet things out loud that they create vagueness in an effort to have people self-police. 00:24:47.529 --> 00:24:49.450 And that's where these things come into play. 00:24:49.529 --> 00:24:54.650 Because I think back to we had dress codes, but we had dress codes for when students were in the building. 00:24:54.810 --> 00:24:58.570 We didn't have dress codes for the days that we were just there on our own. 00:24:58.730 --> 00:25:12.410 ICO wears shorts, and uh and plenty of educators wear shorts and like tank tops on on days for in-service, especially because in Texas it's still 100 degrees when you start going back to school. 00:25:12.650 --> 00:25:26.810 And so I am so curious how they can try to balance those things where it's like the clothing don't matter on doesn't matter on these days, and also the clothing matters on these days. 00:25:27.130 --> 00:25:28.009 And matters all the time. 00:25:29.930 --> 00:25:30.570 Yeah. 00:25:30.890 --> 00:25:38.810 They tried to quote a library policy about not having books with numbering characters, that would then apply to my shirt. 00:25:40.090 --> 00:25:43.130 Did you say that you were where you're like, I'm not a character? 00:25:43.769 --> 00:25:54.250 Also, that's for the kids, that's policing what books the kids can check out, not you know, that's it's still about children in that aspect. 00:25:54.970 --> 00:25:56.810 All of those laws are about children. 00:25:57.130 --> 00:25:57.529 Yeah. 00:25:57.769 --> 00:26:06.170 Um actually, Texas now has some about what teachers can and cannot say, even to parents or other teachers, um, regarding their pronouns. 00:26:06.490 --> 00:26:16.330 Yeah, I have a friend who still teaches, he is uh near Austin in Kyle, and so he um Hazy I think he sends me updates. 00:26:16.810 --> 00:26:20.490 He he sends me updates, and I'm like, gosh. 00:26:20.730 --> 00:26:25.769 Um I saw this coming, which is part of the reason that my husband and I left. 00:26:25.930 --> 00:26:37.210 We came here for a conference where I was talking about teaching while queer, and the educators at the conference were like, We are unfamiliar with what you're talking about. 00:26:37.450 --> 00:26:44.009 Like, even in the conservative areas of upstate New York, they were like, We've never experienced anything like you're talking about. 00:26:44.170 --> 00:26:48.330 And I'm like, wow, that must be nice. 00:26:48.650 --> 00:26:53.529 Um, and then we left right before the legislation started changing. 00:26:53.690 --> 00:26:59.610 I will fully be in prison right now, I'm not gonna lie, because I was never gonna um out a trans student. 00:26:59.769 --> 00:27:02.250 I was never going to stop being myself. 00:27:02.570 --> 00:27:04.810 My children went to my school. 00:27:05.050 --> 00:27:09.690 I once had a principal be like, maybe don't come out, maybe don't come out to your students so quickly. 00:27:09.769 --> 00:27:12.730 And I was like, they're friends with my children. 00:27:12.810 --> 00:27:14.090 Like, what do you want me to do? 00:27:14.250 --> 00:27:15.450 To have my children line? 00:27:15.529 --> 00:27:16.330 That's crazy. 00:27:16.490 --> 00:27:30.170 Um It's part of why I'm in a self-contained class because I genuinely feel that if I was in Gened, I wouldn't have a job right now, but because I'm self-contained, I'm a little more isolated and therefore safer. 00:27:30.570 --> 00:27:31.850 Yep, absolutely. 00:27:32.009 --> 00:27:38.970 And also, I I don't mean this to disrespect your other educators, but you're needed. 00:27:39.769 --> 00:27:42.730 Um, you are so needed, and it is hard. 00:27:42.890 --> 00:27:51.210 It is hard to replace a special education teacher, especially in a self-contained room, because you have to be willing to deal with physical abuse. 00:27:51.289 --> 00:27:54.730 Um, and it's not intentional for the most part. 00:27:54.890 --> 00:27:59.930 You know, sometimes there's the I'm being angry and I'm actually trying to hit you. 00:28:00.410 --> 00:28:17.690 But I I've experienced this working with my students, and I've seen my friend who also works um in special education in South Texas um, you know, have bruises, come home with bruises and sore as heck. 00:28:17.850 --> 00:28:26.250 And I I mean, I've watched a student like full-on slap another student because they were uh angry about the fact that we were done with rehearsal. 00:28:26.410 --> 00:28:27.850 And I'm like, oh, right? 00:28:27.930 --> 00:28:29.769 Like we're doing, we have to do these physical things. 00:28:29.850 --> 00:28:34.730 You have to just restrain students, and when you're restraining students, they are using their full might. 00:28:34.810 --> 00:28:38.650 Like, and these little people are so strong. 00:28:39.210 --> 00:28:49.370 Um and they get you know underestimated because they look small, but they are so, so strong, and it takes a physical and mental toll on you. 00:28:49.610 --> 00:28:53.450 Well, so when they're smart, they just have cognitive communication delays. 00:28:53.529 --> 00:29:01.930 So while the intelligence may not be book smart, they know who doesn't like them, they know when they're safe or not safe, and they respond to those things. 00:29:02.330 --> 00:29:22.570 That part, I was reading uh an article the other day about a mom who like snuck a recording device into a kid's backpack, and she was trying to understand why her autistic son was presenting specific behaviors at school that she'd never see at home, um, according to the educators. 00:29:22.810 --> 00:29:29.850 And there was like a recording of an educator just being like, get away from me, boy, like you get away from me. 00:29:30.009 --> 00:29:34.090 And I'm like, Oh, it's because he knows he's not safe. 00:29:34.330 --> 00:29:35.450 Like, that's why. 00:29:35.529 --> 00:29:39.289 It's because they they don't treat him in a way that's going to make him feel safe. 00:29:39.610 --> 00:29:43.210 Well, and the demands at school are just so different. 00:29:43.610 --> 00:29:46.009 Like, I've got nine kids in my class. 00:29:46.090 --> 00:29:52.490 I was in charge of two YCUP classrooms last year because we weren't able to find a teacher to replace one who got another job. 00:29:52.810 --> 00:30:02.650 Um, we're we're doing independent zones, we're doing work, like we have all these moving parts, and they have to do their job to move on. 00:30:02.810 --> 00:30:17.289 Whereas at home, sometimes they do chores and things like that, but the time frame's not there, or the the type of work is different, and like they're not used to being told no or wait, and they don't have the communication, their processing skills to cope with that. 00:30:17.690 --> 00:30:35.930 And so sometimes just because we're by their kids or by a different place, or we don't have the freedom to just leave when we want to, like, those changes just in an environment cause confusion, upsetness, um, anxiety in our kids, and that is the real world. 00:30:36.009 --> 00:30:46.970 We're trying to get our kids ready to go to a theater class, to go to the restaurant, to go wherever, um, and be safe, but it it means intentionally pushing boundaries. 00:30:47.050 --> 00:30:48.890 We call it um plan sabotage. 00:30:48.970 --> 00:30:54.090 So we make their life harder on purpose so that we can teach them how to cope. 00:30:55.210 --> 00:31:05.210 Yeah, and I think that is amplified with the fact that you're working with younger students too, because there's an emotional aspect for all children that age where their emotions flare up, right? 00:31:05.289 --> 00:31:07.930 They just come and you don't know how to process them. 00:31:08.090 --> 00:31:14.330 But if they're coming and you don't know how to communicate them, that is an extra layer. 00:31:14.570 --> 00:31:20.490 Um, and so again, this kudos to all of the special education teachers out there. 00:31:20.650 --> 00:31:27.050 You don't know how much love I have for you, especially at a time when they're like trying to remove special education services. 00:31:27.210 --> 00:31:29.370 Like the work that you do is so, so important. 00:31:29.529 --> 00:31:36.090 Um, and it's one of the things I think that heals the world because taking care of human beings is what we should be doing. 00:31:36.330 --> 00:31:39.690 All human beings, regardless of their ability. 00:31:39.930 --> 00:31:51.690 And some of the conversation is like it's a centuries-old rhetoric that is coming back, and I'm like, what is wrong with what's happening right now? 00:31:51.769 --> 00:31:57.210 What is wrong with treating people with dignity and respect regardless of who they are? 00:31:57.370 --> 00:31:58.970 Like, I'm so confused. 00:31:59.289 --> 00:31:59.930 Yep. 00:32:00.570 --> 00:32:02.570 So I want to talk a little bit about resources. 00:32:02.730 --> 00:32:06.009 Do you have any resources that you would like to share with folks that you just love? 00:32:06.090 --> 00:32:12.090 It could be personal resources, it could be educational resources, um, but what are your go-to things? 00:32:12.490 --> 00:32:17.130 So, my go-to things is local community resources. 00:32:17.370 --> 00:32:21.210 Wherever that is in your area, I think it is the most important thing to plug into. 00:32:21.769 --> 00:32:29.610 So for the Houston, Katy area, my big go-to is the transparent closet at First Christian Church of Katy. 00:32:29.769 --> 00:32:34.730 Um, it is a free clothing boutique and it's bigger, it's a large space. 00:32:34.970 --> 00:32:49.529 It has four racks of shoes, double-sided, it has dresses, skirts, dress shirts, suits, everything, but it also has binders and packers and tucking underwear and all that is free for the trans community. 00:32:49.769 --> 00:32:58.570 So if you're a teen and exploring gender, or you're 60 and just realized you're able to come out finally and you're transitioning late in life, we have a lot of those actually that come. 00:32:58.890 --> 00:33:04.730 Um, it's a safe place to get gender-affirming items and clothing and support. 00:33:04.970 --> 00:33:06.730 Um love that so much. 00:33:07.130 --> 00:33:10.970 There's we're in multiple states, um, and there's other things like it. 00:33:11.130 --> 00:33:13.930 Grace's place, um, Tony's closet. 00:33:14.090 --> 00:33:18.250 Um, your local area probably has something like it. 00:33:18.810 --> 00:33:22.410 Um, but it just brings me so much joy. 00:33:22.490 --> 00:33:25.289 It's where I found my gender in a really real way. 00:33:25.690 --> 00:33:52.090 Um, and then it's gonna sound corny, but like check out your local prides, and I don't mean like Houston Pride, which like is a good organization, um, but like Katie Pride, Forturn Pride, um, Woodlands Pride, wherever those small counties are in your area, because in the Katy area, they're doing socials every every once a month at they're doing coffee, they're doing karaoke, they're doing things all year long. 00:33:52.730 --> 00:33:54.490 It's not just a parade. 00:33:54.730 --> 00:33:57.850 And so they're doing education advocacy. 00:33:58.090 --> 00:34:14.170 Your local pride is probably gonna be a more grassroots movement to what your area needs, even if it's just a social place to be with other queer people, like the local community groups is where I find the most active support. 00:34:14.809 --> 00:34:16.329 I love that so much. 00:34:16.570 --> 00:34:22.489 Um, as we wrap up, I wanted to ask a little bit about what's bringing you queer joy right now. 00:34:22.889 --> 00:34:26.730 Um, my honest answer is presenting at your conference this October. 00:34:27.050 --> 00:34:30.730 Oh, shout out to the conference, queering education. 00:34:31.449 --> 00:34:39.769 Um, I'm really excited to talk about why special education is the safest place for teachers and the place to support the most queer students. 00:34:39.930 --> 00:34:41.849 Um I'm really excited. 00:34:42.090 --> 00:34:45.289 Um little tinge of here. 00:34:45.450 --> 00:34:49.690 Um I just got accepted to um a grad school program. 00:34:50.170 --> 00:34:53.690 Um I am looking at a career change because of how unsafe things are. 00:34:53.849 --> 00:34:59.769 Um it's not gonna be tomorrow by any stretch, it's gonna be you know be three or four years, but I need a plan B. 00:35:00.010 --> 00:35:02.650 Um, but I'm excited that I've gotten into that. 00:35:03.130 --> 00:35:10.409 Um I'm going to a girls' night tomorrow, and I'm gonna get to get to dress more high femme and just be with my people. 00:35:10.490 --> 00:35:17.289 And I just, you know, again, those local small things you can do to find yourself and just be safe with whoever you are. 00:35:17.369 --> 00:35:19.530 It just makes me so happy. 00:35:19.849 --> 00:35:20.889 Absolutely. 00:35:21.130 --> 00:35:28.809 And as we wrap up, my last question for you is what do you think queer educators need to hear right now in this moment? 00:35:29.610 --> 00:35:34.090 As much as it means to us as teachers, it's a lot of our identity in a way. 00:35:34.250 --> 00:35:35.769 It's just a job. 00:35:36.010 --> 00:35:45.450 Leave it at work, enjoy your personal life at home, um, set firm boundaries on your time and make sure that we make space for the things that bring us joy and fill our cups. 00:35:45.690 --> 00:35:47.930 If it's your work friends, awesome. 00:35:48.090 --> 00:35:51.369 But it shouldn't be grading papers at 9 o'clock on a Tuesday. 00:35:54.970 --> 00:35:57.769 Thank you for being a part of Queering Education. 00:35:57.930 --> 00:36:00.329 This is a Teaching Well Queer podcast. 00:36:00.490 --> 00:36:05.530 Take what you need from this conversation and bring it back into your classroom and your students. 00:36:05.690 --> 00:36:07.130 I'm Brian Stanton. 00:36:07.289 --> 00:36:10.170 Until next time, keep showing up.