WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:06.000 Rather than silence, our our um approach was to be louder than ever. 00:00:10.000 --> 00:00:15.519 Welcome to Queering Education, where we challenge what school is and build what it should be. 00:00:15.679 --> 00:00:17.039 I'm Brian Stanton. 00:00:17.199 --> 00:00:25.199 This is a Teaching While Queer podcast about inclusive teaching, queer pedagogy, and showing up authentically in every classroom. 00:00:25.440 --> 00:00:27.679 All right, let's do the work. 00:00:32.399 --> 00:00:38.560 Hello, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Queering Education, a Teaching While Queer podcast. 00:00:38.799 --> 00:00:40.320 My name is Brian Stanton. 00:00:40.399 --> 00:00:43.679 My pronouns are they, them, and today I have with me Matt Brim. 00:00:43.920 --> 00:00:45.119 Hi, Matt, how are you doing? 00:00:45.439 --> 00:00:46.960 Hi, thanks so much for having me, Brian. 00:00:47.039 --> 00:00:47.600 I'm doing great. 00:00:48.159 --> 00:00:48.880 It's my pleasure. 00:00:49.039 --> 00:00:52.000 Can you take a second to introduce yourself to the folks who are listening? 00:00:52.399 --> 00:00:52.640 Sure. 00:00:52.719 --> 00:00:53.359 Hi, everybody. 00:00:53.600 --> 00:01:03.200 My name is Matt Brim, and I am a professor of queer studies at the College of Staten Island, which is one of the colleges in the City University of New York, TUNY. 00:01:03.600 --> 00:01:14.239 And also right now, I am the executive director of a center called CLAGs, the Center for LGBTQ studies, and that is housed at the CUNY Graduate Center. 00:01:14.319 --> 00:01:22.480 And that is CLAGS is the um the first university-based uh research LGBTQ research center in the US. 00:01:22.640 --> 00:01:28.640 So I sort of have two jobs right now, but my main job is professor of queer studies out at CSI. 00:01:29.599 --> 00:01:31.760 I love that so much for many reasons. 00:01:31.920 --> 00:01:45.840 One of the branches that we added to the Queering Education Conference, which is coming up in October, is a branch focused on queer research because we're finding that there's not a ton of outlets for queer research to share their research. 00:01:46.000 --> 00:01:52.480 Um so uh feel free to send your students our way if they've got things that they need to present or want to present. 00:01:52.560 --> 00:01:53.680 We would love to have them. 00:01:53.840 --> 00:01:59.680 Um, for those who are listening, the call for proposals is out until August 15th. 00:01:59.840 --> 00:02:01.920 Um so you know, get it in. 00:02:02.000 --> 00:02:05.040 You've got about two weeks left. 00:02:05.200 --> 00:02:10.000 Um, and I will make sure that that is available on our episode as well. 00:02:10.240 --> 00:02:13.680 But let's talk a little bit about your experience. 00:02:13.759 --> 00:02:15.840 What got you into education? 00:02:17.520 --> 00:02:21.919 So I after undergrad, I went to law school and I just hated it. 00:02:22.000 --> 00:02:23.840 I stayed a semester and quit. 00:02:23.919 --> 00:02:30.639 And so then I worked for a couple of years and realized I wanted to go back to graduate school. 00:02:30.719 --> 00:02:33.759 Uh, and I ended up going back to Indiana University. 00:02:33.840 --> 00:02:38.879 I'm from Indiana, and got a PhD in American literature. 00:02:39.680 --> 00:02:54.560 And uh, you know, the thing that that got me really into education was just luck, because uh after I got the PhD, I got uh a postdoc fellowship, which is a temporary job. 00:02:54.639 --> 00:02:57.759 It's a good job, but it's a temporary job at Duke University. 00:02:58.159 --> 00:03:10.000 And then um I got lucky because I got hired at uh CUNY in 2007, and that was the last good year to try to get a tenure track job. 00:03:10.080 --> 00:03:11.840 And so, and that's 20 years ago. 00:03:11.919 --> 00:03:17.919 And in my year, the year I came in, the English department hired five tenure track professors at once. 00:03:18.319 --> 00:03:39.520 And we have many years since then not hired one, and so it's just absolutely luck that I was ready to apply for an assistant professorship in that year because then in 28, 20,000, uh 2028, I'm sorry, uh 2008, the market crashed. 00:03:39.759 --> 00:03:52.000 Um, and and since then um it's just been it's it's been downhill for people who are looking for permanent, well-paying tenure track jobs in higher education. 00:03:52.080 --> 00:03:56.879 Um, and then once I got the job, uh I just I knew I loved teaching. 00:03:56.960 --> 00:03:59.599 I taught all through grad school, I taught in the postdoc. 00:03:59.680 --> 00:04:02.240 And so teaching keeps me in the job. 00:04:02.319 --> 00:04:08.240 Um, and also, really importantly, um CUNY is unionized. 00:04:08.319 --> 00:04:16.720 So I'm part of a faculty union, and that makes my job um really different from a lot of academic jobs. 00:04:17.040 --> 00:04:29.279 It gets me incredibly um good healthcare, and by good I mean it's it's uh it's affordable, and uh it gives me protection at work. 00:04:29.439 --> 00:04:34.399 And so being in a union job is also um what keeps me here. 00:04:34.800 --> 00:04:35.759 Yeah, absolutely. 00:04:35.920 --> 00:04:39.279 I have been a part of that union when I was working at city college. 00:04:39.519 --> 00:04:54.800 Um and I love that was one of the things when I left that was the hardest uh kind of pill to swallow was just how much the health insurance cost changed between working uh for city college and being in a union position versus working. 00:04:54.959 --> 00:05:03.439 Um I was working at a middle school when I left, um, and it was just night and day astronomical, the the medical costs. 00:05:03.680 --> 00:05:10.079 Um one of the things you were talking about is is kind of a higher education problem than I'm experiencing right now. 00:05:10.240 --> 00:05:15.120 At the moment, I am a technical director within an events department at a university. 00:05:15.360 --> 00:05:21.199 Um, and when I was working at City College, I was also a technical director who adjuncted in their theater department. 00:05:21.439 --> 00:05:41.439 And part of that comes down to in my four years in New York City, there has been a one tenure track position for a theater educator, and it's like all-encompassing, which means it has to be someone who uh it it can be acting, it could be directing, it could be playwriting, it could be technical theater. 00:05:41.519 --> 00:05:48.959 And my background is the technical side of things, and even though I can do the other things, they're not my forte, it's not what my my MFA isn't. 00:05:49.519 --> 00:06:05.360 And it's been a struggle because I too would love a full-time professorship, uh, tenure track, and just the the higher education economy has just tanked in that department. 00:06:05.439 --> 00:06:11.839 And I and to hear that it's gone as far back as when the the market crashed in 2008 is wild. 00:06:12.160 --> 00:06:13.839 Yep, yep. 00:06:14.079 --> 00:06:33.600 And you know, it has a lot to do with um larger market forces and the financialization of everything, and so many CUNY, like like most other schools, is trying to find um the cheapest kind of workforce that it can. 00:06:33.759 --> 00:06:41.680 And so we have a whole lot of adjunct professors who you could you could walk into a classroom and not know it's an adjunct or tenure track professor. 00:06:41.759 --> 00:06:47.199 Like it's it's not the quality of the education, it is just that you can pay one more than the other one. 00:06:47.360 --> 00:06:53.199 And uh, and unfortunately, that is that is how um that's the the academic job market right now. 00:06:53.360 --> 00:07:01.040 That said, I would never discourage somebody from going to get an advanced degree because they wanted to be in the in the classroom. 00:07:01.279 --> 00:07:11.279 Um, it's it's such a joy to to teach that um I think you should go in with your eyes open, but I don't think you should um only let market forces determine what to do. 00:07:11.680 --> 00:07:13.040 Yeah, absolutely. 00:07:13.279 --> 00:07:19.839 Uh I I still have that dream and will, and and will continue to to search. 00:07:19.920 --> 00:07:23.360 Um, I just uh am locked in location. 00:07:23.519 --> 00:07:26.879 I can't expand my search because of family and whatnot. 00:07:27.120 --> 00:07:37.360 So um I think flexibility is also key when you're in the job market, is the idea of like if it's the job that you want, perhaps be comfortable moving. 00:07:37.600 --> 00:07:41.680 Um, because sometimes the market is better in other locations. 00:07:41.920 --> 00:07:54.079 I actually was offered a 10-year track position, but it is in Connecticut, and I contemplated the hour and a half drive from New York City to Connecticut uh and really, really thought about it. 00:07:54.240 --> 00:07:58.879 But the the pay with the driving just wasn't gonna be worthwhile. 00:07:58.959 --> 00:08:01.199 And so I, you know, I'm doing an adjacent job. 00:08:01.360 --> 00:08:05.199 I'm doing half of what I would have been doing in that tenure track job. 00:08:05.279 --> 00:08:08.959 I'm not in the classroom, but all the other work that I would be doing, I'm doing right now. 00:08:09.120 --> 00:08:12.000 It's just in a different uh manner. 00:08:12.240 --> 00:08:21.839 I'm I'm technically an administrator, um, which I'm not sure that that's ever what I wanted to do, but it's here, it's here, it's what I'm doing. 00:08:23.920 --> 00:08:30.720 Um you have gone from a a master uh a PhD that was focused in in literature. 00:08:30.879 --> 00:08:34.960 How did you end up teaching in LGBTQ studies? 00:08:35.840 --> 00:08:43.919 So I wrote my dissertation on uh an amazing American writer, African-American writer, James Baldwin, who also was queer. 00:08:44.000 --> 00:08:52.159 And so that Baldwin book really got me um my my feet firmly planted in LGBTQ literary studies. 00:08:52.480 --> 00:09:07.440 And then when the the job I have now is in an English department, and when they advertised for that job, they wanted somebody, uh such a professor of queer studies, but with a focus on um LGBT literature as well, as well as queer theory. 00:09:07.679 --> 00:09:20.720 And so it was it was a function of having um that book or that dissertation on Baldwin um come out of an English department, but also the the critical lens was queer theory. 00:09:20.960 --> 00:09:24.000 Um and so it was it was sort of the perfect job for me. 00:09:24.080 --> 00:09:31.519 I mean, I had never heard of the College of Staten Island before that job came up, and I was surprised that they were advertising for a queer studies professor. 00:09:31.759 --> 00:09:38.240 Um, but I did want, you're talking about location, I wanted to be either in New York or San Francisco. 00:09:38.399 --> 00:09:40.720 Uh I grew up in the Midwest and I don't need to go back. 00:09:40.799 --> 00:09:42.159 I lived in the South for a long time. 00:09:42.320 --> 00:09:43.519 I don't need to go back. 00:09:43.759 --> 00:09:50.240 Um, and so I wanted to be in the New York area, and it and the College of Staten Island is in the New York area. 00:09:50.399 --> 00:10:01.039 So um, yeah, that's that's the the job is I teach a lot of LGBTQ literature, back to your question, as well as uh queer and trans cultural studies. 00:10:32.089 --> 00:10:32.889 I love that. 00:10:33.049 --> 00:10:37.929 Uh I I did my when I was an undergraduate, my degree is in opera performance. 00:10:38.009 --> 00:11:04.329 And so I did all of my performance, solo performances were based off of uh queer or bi um by eluding, because the 40s and 50s were very uh closeted times, uh but queer by composers um and focused on telling the story in my program notes of how uh basically queering the story because people were like, this song is clearly about a woman. 00:11:04.490 --> 00:11:08.490 I was like, but actually it's not, or this song is clearly about a man. 00:11:08.569 --> 00:11:22.649 And I'm like, but actually, if you look at this, um, and so I've been so fascinated with writers and artists for so long uh who are queer that maybe it just isn't common knowledge. 00:11:22.809 --> 00:11:31.769 I mean, there's so many people I think about from my childhood that are queer, so many people and things that are queer-coded that I just wasn't aware of. 00:11:31.929 --> 00:11:43.370 And then I went into higher education and I was like, oh wow, like here I thought, you know, I was just this little gay kid from the suburb of LA, and there are not very many of us. 00:11:43.449 --> 00:11:53.449 And then I find out that many of the things that I was associating with part of who I was were in fact queer-coded, and I just didn't realize and I didn't know. 00:11:53.529 --> 00:12:02.490 And some of the stories that I was reading and some of the music I was listening to were queer coded, but I was just not aware of it because nobody was talking about it. 00:12:02.969 --> 00:12:07.049 So I love that programs like that exist where you get to talk about things out loud. 00:12:07.370 --> 00:12:08.009 Yeah. 00:12:09.289 --> 00:12:11.929 In fact, it's uh it's it's my job. 00:12:12.089 --> 00:12:18.329 So one of the ways that um you you sort of ask about my identity and how that overlaps at work. 00:12:18.569 --> 00:12:22.889 I mean my job is professor of career studies. 00:12:23.370 --> 00:12:27.129 So um it is my job to be out. 00:12:27.529 --> 00:12:31.529 Um, it's my job to um to teach what I teach. 00:12:31.689 --> 00:12:35.769 I never have to defend what I teach or apologize for it. 00:12:35.849 --> 00:12:37.610 I never have to hide what I teach. 00:12:37.769 --> 00:12:42.009 Everything I do um fulfills the job requirements. 00:12:42.169 --> 00:12:53.289 Um, and so it's a it's a real privilege that I don't have to um, you know, that I don't have to sneak things into my syllabus or try to do anything undercover. 00:12:53.370 --> 00:13:18.409 Um, in fact, I get more uh rewarded for doing my job when everything is out and and um and when students are encouraged to not hedge about their studying lesbian or by literature, or when they're asked not to apologize for it, but um just to say this is a legitimate field of study. 00:13:18.649 --> 00:13:27.129 It has its own texts and ideas and theories and methods, and it's a really rigorous, legitimate field of study, and we can do that together. 00:13:27.370 --> 00:13:41.610 And so um that's a privilege of my particular job that even other queer studies professors don't have because they might be prof uh a professor of sociology and really, you know, they teach a lot of things other than LGBT stuff. 00:13:41.689 --> 00:13:45.689 But I I I exclusively teach LGBT content. 00:13:46.089 --> 00:13:47.049 I love that. 00:13:47.289 --> 00:13:50.569 Um, I'm also curious to learn more about CLAGs. 00:13:50.729 --> 00:13:58.169 You said it was the first of its kind program, and I love to hear about how it came about and like how it's evolved over time. 00:13:59.129 --> 00:14:09.449 Yeah, so CLAGS, the Center for LGBTQ studies, was founded in 1986, and it came to the Graduate Center at CUNY in 1991. 00:14:09.529 --> 00:14:11.929 Um, and so 86 is our founding. 00:14:12.009 --> 00:14:15.370 We just had our 40th anniversary year last year. 00:14:15.529 --> 00:14:43.449 Um, and it started because um our founder is Martin Duberman, and with a bunch of other um lesbian, gay, by they weren't using the word queer so much at the time, people, um they were able to say, you know what, our professional life and our sexual identity do not have to be held separate. 00:14:43.769 --> 00:15:01.929 Uh and one way to make sure that they can be whole people, integrate the personal, the professional, the social, the cultural, is to create structures or institutions that encourage that kind of wholeness. 00:15:02.089 --> 00:15:08.169 And so CLAGs was created as a place um to do LGBT research. 00:15:08.569 --> 00:15:20.649 And um it was it was also created in '86, which is you know a really tough moment in the US for um queer people, gay men, um, poor people because of AIDS. 00:15:20.969 --> 00:15:24.649 And so it was it was created in a moment of crisis. 00:15:24.809 --> 00:15:35.529 And so there's there's a way in which the academic um uh center is a kind of response to the crisis in not in a formal um professional way. 00:15:35.849 --> 00:15:38.490 It has changed a lot. 00:15:38.729 --> 00:15:52.490 Um, it we used to be called the Center for Lesbian and Gay Studies, and now we're called uh LGBTQ studies, and that term isn't, you know, that that acronym is not, doesn't say everything we want it to say, but that's where we are right now. 00:15:52.889 --> 00:16:04.009 Um we have it's an interesting structure because we do have uh offices at the grad center, and there's an executive director, that's me, and then we have a very small staff of like two. 00:16:04.409 --> 00:16:09.610 Um, but we have a big board of directors who work really hard uh for the organization. 00:16:09.769 --> 00:16:14.649 They do tons of programming, um, and we offer fellowships. 00:16:14.889 --> 00:16:28.889 And um, and today I think that uh one of the things we think about is um more than ever is the precarity of people coming after us, graduate students, especially. 00:16:29.049 --> 00:16:48.569 There's just a lot of precarity, not only in terms of the job market, which we talked about a little bit, but they're being attacked for uh studying what for decades we have felt like we could study and and and not be ostracized or or defunded. 00:16:48.809 --> 00:17:04.170 And so we've had graduate students whose work is in transgender studies um have anxiety about presenting themselves as trans scholars, trans studies scholars. 00:17:04.730 --> 00:17:16.730 Um, and that's because the the current uh administration is targeting trans people as well as immigrants, as well as uh people of color and DEI uh initiatives. 00:17:16.809 --> 00:17:18.170 And so they really feel that pressure. 00:17:18.329 --> 00:17:32.250 It's a it's a very tough time um for a lot of people who are being told from the top of the the power stratosphere in the US that you don't belong. 00:17:32.410 --> 00:17:41.370 And so CLAGs right now, part of our job is just to reassure people in all kinds of ways that you do belong here and the work that you do belongs. 00:17:41.850 --> 00:17:42.490 Yeah. 00:17:43.130 --> 00:17:54.250 I was wondering about that whether or not um there has been a negative impact based off of recent um administration administrative decisions. 00:17:54.410 --> 00:18:08.009 I've seen with like K-12 educators who have had EEOC complaints over discrimination in the schools that they've worked in, receive blatant uh responses that are like, it's coming from the top. 00:18:08.170 --> 00:18:10.410 We can't investigate you because you're trans. 00:18:10.570 --> 00:18:13.690 We can't investigate the discrimination against you because you're trans. 00:18:14.090 --> 00:18:32.650 And I've seen it ha uh in the arts realm because uh the grant funding for the arts quite very, very specifically says you cannot say anything related to like gender identity, uh sexual orientation, being marginalized. 00:18:32.730 --> 00:18:34.810 Like there's a laundry list of words you can't say. 00:18:34.890 --> 00:18:39.850 And I was like, oh, well, I quite literally cannot even apply. 00:18:40.090 --> 00:18:46.650 If I applied with my pronouns the way that I present my pronouns, I would be tossed out immediately. 00:18:46.730 --> 00:18:52.490 And I've seen um arts organizations who lose their funding for the same purpose. 00:18:52.570 --> 00:19:05.850 Uh right now, Teaching While Queer has a grant from um the Heritage Foundation, not the Heritage Foundation, uh Heritage NYC, which is the organization that funds pride in NY in New York City. 00:19:06.170 --> 00:19:29.450 And um many of the other organizations that we're working with who received this grant opportunity with us, uh, these community grants, had funding that got cut from them for filmmaking and documentary services where they're just trying to tell people stories, but because those stories are black or queer or trans, their money was just taken right out of them. 00:19:29.529 --> 00:19:39.930 And they had to go from having a whole research team and a whole um documentary team to just the three of them working on it by themselves because they founded the organization. 00:19:40.250 --> 00:19:44.410 Um, huge strides backwards from where they had been a couple of years ago. 00:19:44.650 --> 00:19:44.970 Yeah. 00:19:45.130 --> 00:19:46.170 Um yeah. 00:19:46.330 --> 00:19:51.850 I mean, the the funding landscape right now is um it's a mess. 00:19:52.009 --> 00:19:59.850 I was just talking to a woman from um uh organization Australia who and she studies LGBT funding. 00:20:00.170 --> 00:20:14.330 And right now, in certainly in the US, um people as you I think have experienced just aren't applying uh for certain grants that they might have once applied for. 00:20:14.490 --> 00:20:19.050 It's also true that those grants just don't exist anymore because the funding has been withdrawn. 00:20:19.370 --> 00:20:23.050 So there's a gap, there's a funding gap. 00:20:23.289 --> 00:20:31.610 And what needs to happen is other funds, other monies need to come in uh to make up for uh what's been taken away. 00:20:31.930 --> 00:20:35.450 And people aren't sure about what how to fill the gap. 00:20:35.610 --> 00:20:42.410 Um CLAGS has a really great um audience. 00:20:42.490 --> 00:20:47.210 Uh we have a lot of people who are who come to our events uh who are really invested. 00:20:47.370 --> 00:20:57.130 We have 40 years of uh of people who have served on the board of trustees, we have decades of offering um uh prizes, fellowships to people. 00:20:57.289 --> 00:21:01.370 Um, and then we just have a community that is is really loyal. 00:21:01.529 --> 00:21:09.210 And so one thing that we can do is we can ask individuals for small donations, and that is that's getting us through. 00:21:09.370 --> 00:21:13.130 And then every once in a while, somebody will give us a really big donation. 00:21:13.289 --> 00:21:20.890 Often they've had a long history with CLAGs, and um, and so they know that this is a time when they can step up for us. 00:21:20.970 --> 00:21:41.050 Um, Martin Duberman, I mentioned his name, uh James Saslow, two years ago or January 25, gave us$100,000 endowments, and we don't get those all the time, but he understood that a crisis was on its way and that he that we would need that kind of help. 00:21:41.210 --> 00:21:42.890 And so we really appreciate it. 00:21:43.050 --> 00:21:58.009 Um, but other organizations are different from CLAGs and might not be able to turn to individuals, and and they might feel more like they're competing for money for LGBT money with other LGBT organizations, and we don't feel so much like that. 00:21:58.170 --> 00:21:59.450 It's a tough moment. 00:22:00.009 --> 00:22:01.529 It really is, and it's hard. 00:22:01.690 --> 00:22:20.330 It is hard when you're a nonprofit organization or even a solo artist or researcher to be going for these pots of money and then to feel that scarcity uh mindset to feel like if I take this, then somebody else isn't going to get this, and and it really does feel competitive. 00:22:20.650 --> 00:22:29.930 And I try to put people's mind at ease in the sense of like, so you put your best foot forward and they will assess, you know, which which funds. 00:22:30.410 --> 00:22:35.370 They can give to which organizations based off of what aligns best with their values and their mission and whatnot. 00:22:35.450 --> 00:22:43.850 And there it really is out of Europeans, but if you self-censor, um, then you don't have an opportunity. 00:22:44.090 --> 00:22:50.650 I just had this conversation with a consultant because they're like, where are you getting donations from for teaching while queer? 00:22:50.730 --> 00:22:54.009 And I said, Well, we're doing a terrible job at asking. 00:22:54.250 --> 00:22:56.410 Um and that's just it. 00:22:56.570 --> 00:23:01.210 If you don't ask, then you you don't receive, there's no possibility of it. 00:23:01.529 --> 00:23:33.130 And saying that, I will counter it with if you are in a situation where doing the asking could potentially put you in danger, then you assess whether or not that's that is something you can do because there are real world things happening right now and organizations that were incredibly supportive, that are not as supportive, that just you know being on this list could put you in the libs of TikTar, uh TikTok mailing list, it could get you doxxed. 00:23:33.210 --> 00:23:39.610 If those things are actual reality uh based off of what you're trying to apply for, then you have to assess. 00:23:39.850 --> 00:23:48.890 But yeah, if there are things where you're worried because you're competing against other queer folks, someone has to get the money and let them decide. 00:23:49.450 --> 00:23:51.289 I mean, the good news, two things. 00:23:51.450 --> 00:24:00.650 One is it has um taught us how valuable collaboration is with other organizations so that we're not both trying to do the same thing. 00:24:00.810 --> 00:24:07.529 We we've collaborated more in the last three years, I think, um, than I thought was possible. 00:24:07.690 --> 00:24:27.769 And and with other academic institutions, the Barnard Center for Research on Women, NYU's Gender and Sexuality Studies Program, Um, University of Pennsylvania, University of Toronto, people with resources um have been incredibly responsive and willing to share those resources. 00:24:27.850 --> 00:24:33.289 And resources, I don't just mean money, uh, but but resources of experience. 00:24:33.529 --> 00:24:42.890 Um, CUNY has, as you know, students with really incredible um experiences that that they turn into knowledge, right? 00:24:42.970 --> 00:24:47.050 They have ideas that are from how they live and where they live and how they grew up. 00:24:47.130 --> 00:24:52.330 And those ideas sometimes aren't very visible to people at the other end of the ivory tower. 00:24:52.730 --> 00:24:58.570 And so that's a resource that we can share, just like uh others can share financial resources with us. 00:24:58.810 --> 00:25:02.970 And the second thing I wanted to say is that you know, queers were really thrifty. 00:25:03.050 --> 00:25:05.130 Like we don't need a lot of money to do a lot. 00:25:05.289 --> 00:25:08.009 We put in the legwork, the elbow grease. 00:25:08.250 --> 00:25:12.250 CLAGs runs on a tiny budget, but we just work really hard. 00:25:12.330 --> 00:25:15.610 It's a mission-driven place, and so we love the mission. 00:25:15.850 --> 00:25:21.690 And of course, there's always the risk of burnout, but we have fun usually while while we're trying to do our work. 00:25:21.850 --> 00:25:29.930 And so it, you know, going after the money is important because some things take money, but a lot of things don't take very much. 00:25:30.090 --> 00:25:38.009 And so that I think is a good message to send to people to say, when you ask, and you're right, you do have to ask, you don't have to ask for a lot. 00:25:38.170 --> 00:25:51.050 You know, you you can say, I need sometimes it's a hundred bucks, sometimes it's five hundred, you know, depending on what I just need I need uh an honorarium of$250 to pay a speaker. 00:25:51.370 --> 00:25:59.529 People happily um will donate when they know what it's going to be used for, and it's um and it's little bits that have gotten us by. 00:25:59.610 --> 00:26:03.930 And and I actually like that model more than I would love a big grant. 00:26:04.090 --> 00:26:06.810 I would love a ton of money to dump on us for other reasons. 00:26:06.890 --> 00:26:08.410 It would change what we could do. 00:26:08.570 --> 00:26:16.730 But I love the model of people making small contributions and asking us to be smart with how we use their money. 00:26:16.810 --> 00:26:18.650 Um, and we're really good at that. 00:26:19.289 --> 00:26:20.410 I love that. 00:26:20.650 --> 00:26:24.570 I uh am thinking about that as we gear up for the for the conference. 00:26:24.730 --> 00:26:35.690 One of the things on my checklist to do before August, so I guess I got a day is is to come up with our like sponsorship email and our sponsorship levels. 00:26:35.769 --> 00:26:39.690 And one of those things is you can sponsor a keynote or you can sponsor a presenter. 00:26:39.930 --> 00:26:43.370 One of my personal goals is that we pay our presenters. 00:26:43.529 --> 00:26:54.410 I don't know if it'll be achievable for this October, but it is my goal that as we roll out in the future that we are able to budget, you know,$50 to$100 honorarium. 00:26:54.490 --> 00:26:59.210 It's a virtual conference to pay you for your time and to pay you for your research. 00:26:59.370 --> 00:27:21.610 Because I will be honest, I get so burnt out of paying my registration and teaching one to three sessions at a conference and also paying for my entire way there and whatnot, because sometimes your institution can't pay for it, or you can get one conference without another. 00:27:21.769 --> 00:27:25.769 So you've got to negotiate it and it becomes tiresome. 00:27:25.850 --> 00:27:34.250 Uh, and I really I don't know if it's artists in me, but I really think people should earn something for their contributions. 00:27:34.410 --> 00:27:47.529 And so if you are out there and you can know that it is coming, our sponsorship email, and that we are looking for people to sponsor speakers because I'm hoping that we can raise some money and I can send checks off to these speakers this year. 00:27:47.769 --> 00:27:55.210 Um, and you're absolutely correct in that it doesn't necessarily take tens of thousands of dollars. 00:27:55.370 --> 00:28:04.730 Last year we did our virtual conference for like$300 or$3,000 total and included the platform, it included paying um our keynotes. 00:28:04.970 --> 00:28:21.850 This year I asked, I asked for like I created a grand grant application in a budget where it was a$10,000 program, and that included paying every every speaker and it included um additional accessibility resources on the website. 00:28:22.090 --> 00:28:29.690 Um we are getting about half of that, so more than the cost of our conference because I asked. 00:28:29.930 --> 00:28:31.850 Because I found a grant and I asked. 00:28:31.930 --> 00:28:39.050 And I think that um to me as a small nonprofit organization,$10,000 seemed like a lot. 00:28:39.130 --> 00:28:41.610 That was more than our operating budget last year. 00:28:41.930 --> 00:29:01.930 But um I asked and I got half of it, and now we have an operating budget that is more than it was last year, and I think that's the goal is you try to build programs, you kind of have to ask for your dream, and then find the space in between where it's functional and know that you have to have a backup plan just in case you don't get to do your dream. 00:29:02.250 --> 00:29:02.890 For sure. 00:29:03.050 --> 00:29:03.529 Absolutely. 00:29:03.690 --> 00:29:05.050 Congratulations on getting that grant. 00:29:05.210 --> 00:29:05.850 That's terrific. 00:29:06.170 --> 00:29:06.650 Thank you. 00:29:06.810 --> 00:29:08.250 I I almost cried. 00:29:08.490 --> 00:29:10.330 I almost cried when the email came in. 00:29:10.410 --> 00:29:11.289 I was like, no way. 00:29:11.529 --> 00:29:11.850 Wow. 00:29:12.330 --> 00:29:34.090 Um, I want to talk a little bit about the kinds of things that you've seen come through CLAGs because one of the things I mentioned at the start is that there haven't been a ton of queer inclusive spaces for educational research to be presented, like research to be presented about queer identity or um anything of that sort. 00:29:34.170 --> 00:29:41.850 And so I'm curious what kind of things um have been kind of developed and grown through the program. 00:29:42.570 --> 00:29:51.370 Um either interesting theses, if you have any that come to mind, uh, also feel free not to share if it's like this is special to this person. 00:29:51.450 --> 00:29:54.650 But I'm just curious what kind of things have come through the research. 00:29:54.970 --> 00:30:03.289 Well, I mean, so so because we're a research center, our our whole job is to give people a platform to present research, right? 00:30:03.370 --> 00:30:03.850 That's what we do. 00:30:03.930 --> 00:30:08.650 And so we just have an incredibly full programming or event schedule. 00:30:08.890 --> 00:30:12.330 Um, and everything that we do is free. 00:30:12.570 --> 00:30:18.970 And so, and it's usually the the events are usually held at the graduate center, graduate center, CUNY's publics. 00:30:19.130 --> 00:30:20.730 Um, all the events are free. 00:30:20.890 --> 00:30:25.450 We welcome all kinds of New York intellectual communities into the building. 00:30:25.610 --> 00:30:31.210 And we also, I think almost, I think all of our events are online now as well. 00:30:31.450 --> 00:30:39.850 And then we record the events and then we put them up on our YouTube channel so that if you didn't get to come in person or to watch it live, you can watch the recording. 00:30:40.009 --> 00:30:44.890 And these are ways that we give people opportunities to present their research. 00:30:45.130 --> 00:30:48.970 And this this can be maybe somebody wrote a book and so they want to do a book talk. 00:30:49.050 --> 00:30:59.289 We have a scholar in residence program where somebody can come in and we give them shared office space and a laptop and access to the databases at the CUNY Graduate Center, and then they give a talk. 00:30:59.450 --> 00:31:08.410 Um, we have last year we had two giant conferences, and um, there was the Lesbian Lives Conference in October, and that brought in 600 people. 00:31:08.570 --> 00:31:19.930 It was 120 panels, and then in the in the spring, we had a queer class relations conference, and that was like 420 people and uh 60 different panels. 00:31:20.170 --> 00:31:22.970 Um, a lot of those panels were grad students. 00:31:23.210 --> 00:31:32.090 25% of the queer class relations conference were community folks who came in who aren't students who were professors, but they're intellectuals, just not academics. 00:31:32.330 --> 00:31:43.130 And so a lot of people had were given space to talk about their work, um, their intellectual work, um, and also their activist work and their teaching praxis. 00:31:43.450 --> 00:31:50.490 Um, and so uh the one other thing I want to mention, so that so that's one of the one of the things Clydes does. 00:31:50.570 --> 00:32:00.490 We also we give fellowships, um a number of fellowships from ranging from uh$500 or$250 all the way up to$3,000. 00:32:01.050 --> 00:32:04.490 Um, and that is to support emerging scholars. 00:32:04.570 --> 00:32:16.410 Um, we have a first or second book prize, a dissertation prize, graduate student papers, um, Silvia Rivera Transgender Studies uh prize for somebody who's doing trans scholarship. 00:32:16.570 --> 00:32:21.529 Um, and then uh an undergraduate and graduate paper prize. 00:32:21.690 --> 00:32:35.930 And so we want to encourage uh we want to encourage emerging scholars to look to CLAGS, not only to get a little money, um, but then we have a um a showcase where they get to talk a little bit about their work. 00:32:36.009 --> 00:32:43.690 Um and the one other thing I wanted to say is that last year we launched um the advanced certificate in LGBTQ studies. 00:32:44.009 --> 00:33:03.769 Um, CLAGs, uh the ED and the former co-um board chair uh Justin Brown and Laura Westinggaard designed a certificate program, did all this incredibly hard work of getting it through all the hoops, including getting CUNY to approve it and then getting the state to approve it. 00:33:04.009 --> 00:33:10.009 And then that program hard launched, soft launched a year and a half ago, hard launched in the fall. 00:33:10.170 --> 00:33:16.650 And that actually gives people an opportunity to get a certificate, a credential in LGBTQ studies. 00:33:16.810 --> 00:33:24.650 If you're already a graduate student, you can take the five-course sequence as part of your MA or as part of your PhD program. 00:33:24.730 --> 00:33:26.490 And so you end up with a credential. 00:33:26.650 --> 00:33:29.930 But this is a program also for non-matriculated students. 00:33:30.090 --> 00:33:36.009 If you're not already a grad student at CUNY, you can apply only to this certificate program. 00:33:36.330 --> 00:33:44.730 Um, you can do it in a year, it's five courses, but most people who apply are working professionals and they need that credential to advance at work. 00:33:45.210 --> 00:34:01.050 Um, we have a doctor at NYU who does um who wants to do um to help LGBTQ people who have gastrointestinal issues and problems, but the research on that doesn't identify LGBT people. 00:34:01.130 --> 00:34:05.370 And so he wants to get grants to research this. 00:34:05.610 --> 00:34:12.570 He needs a credential that says, oh, you have some kind of training and methods around LGDT in order to do the grant. 00:34:12.650 --> 00:34:14.489 And so he's part of the program. 00:34:14.889 --> 00:34:20.409 Um it can help people advance in their career as well as uh just intellectually. 00:34:20.570 --> 00:34:24.250 And so I would I would just encourage, I'm gonna say the name of the CLAGS website. 00:34:24.329 --> 00:34:27.929 It's it's cla-g-s.org, CLAGs.org. 00:34:28.090 --> 00:34:32.170 And if you go there, you will see a link on the left to the advanced certificate program. 00:34:32.570 --> 00:34:34.650 And I mentioned Laura Westingard's name. 00:34:34.809 --> 00:34:37.289 Laura is the coordinator of that program. 00:34:37.449 --> 00:34:38.329 She designed it. 00:34:38.490 --> 00:34:45.769 And when you email the certificate program, Laura is the person on the other end of that email and show it back to you and let you know about the program. 00:34:46.650 --> 00:34:48.970 I love that program so much. 00:34:49.130 --> 00:34:58.730 I uh sadly have been accepted to that program twice, accepted twice, but timing, my life circumstances haven't allowed me to actually commit to it. 00:34:58.809 --> 00:35:00.650 So I'm holding off again. 00:35:00.730 --> 00:35:11.610 Um I'm currently accepted for the fall, but I'm holding off again um just because I started in a new position uh and life seems to be throwing that kind of curveball at me. 00:35:11.769 --> 00:35:21.450 Um but it's such an amazing program that I've I mean I've actively applied, gone through the process of applying to it twice because it's something that I desperately want to do. 00:35:21.610 --> 00:35:31.050 And I'm looking forward to being able to do it in the future when I can see that my life is caught in some sense of uh settledness. 00:35:31.530 --> 00:35:31.769 Yeah. 00:35:31.849 --> 00:35:33.450 Uh I mean, keep coming back. 00:35:33.530 --> 00:35:38.409 You know, it's the it's the people can do it uh at their own pace. 00:35:38.490 --> 00:35:45.130 Um, and so some people need to get through in a year, but other people are taking two years, just taking basically one class a semester. 00:35:45.369 --> 00:35:47.690 Some of the classes are offered uh in the evening. 00:35:47.849 --> 00:35:57.050 Again, it's it's to make it we want to welcome in people who aren't used to being at the grad center, aren't used to being students, and who may work during the day. 00:35:57.130 --> 00:36:00.010 And so we want to be as flexible as we can for them. 00:36:00.570 --> 00:36:01.210 I love that. 00:36:01.369 --> 00:36:02.970 And I will keep applying again. 00:36:03.130 --> 00:36:06.490 Uh, last summer I started a brand new job working as a middle school teacher. 00:36:06.650 --> 00:36:09.690 This summer I started a brand new job working as a technical director. 00:36:09.769 --> 00:36:17.930 And so the not understanding what my fall schedule looks like yet is where I go, okay, this is not the right time for me. 00:36:18.090 --> 00:36:26.090 Um but it's definitely on my list of things to continue returning to um once I have a better grasp of my schedule. 00:36:26.329 --> 00:36:29.769 Um I really do love the work that you do. 00:36:29.930 --> 00:36:37.050 Um, for those of you who haven't been keeping up with our newsletter, Matt was one of our educators of the month earlier this year. 00:36:37.289 --> 00:36:43.930 Um and before we round out this episode, I've got just two questions for you. 00:36:44.170 --> 00:36:47.050 One, what's bringing you joy right now? 00:36:51.690 --> 00:36:56.010 So the rain has really helped my plants that are outside. 00:36:57.610 --> 00:37:07.930 And I it's silly, but I get up um and uh and my husband is a very good plant daddy, and we sort of go look at these plants together. 00:37:08.090 --> 00:37:20.970 And it is, I don't know, it's it's it's it's a part of the day in the morning and the evening where we just like check on these stupid plants and like they're flowering again, like, oh wow, they're flowering again. 00:37:21.210 --> 00:37:26.889 So I don't know, like just being at that level, like something is growing. 00:37:26.970 --> 00:37:31.610 We're helping something totally uh, I think that gives me some joy. 00:37:31.930 --> 00:37:38.250 And then I'm getting ready to go on vacation, and I have a lot of joy uh around that. 00:37:38.650 --> 00:37:41.289 Ooh, vacation is where it's at, man. 00:37:41.610 --> 00:37:42.970 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:37:43.050 --> 00:38:01.610 Um, but that said, you know, this is this is um it's not a special kind of joy, but uh you know, teaching at CUNY, um our students are are are some of the the poorest socioeconomically in the in the nation. 00:38:01.690 --> 00:38:06.490 Um 80% of students of color, our students often have to work full-time. 00:38:06.650 --> 00:38:12.329 They many have children or care um um responsibilities at home. 00:38:12.570 --> 00:38:28.010 And teaching that student body is a joy because they come in and um they're you know, they have as much a life of the mind as anybody else, but they have all this extra life too. 00:38:28.170 --> 00:38:32.010 Um, and it makes teaching um exciting and something new every day. 00:38:32.170 --> 00:38:39.769 And I also really respect the ethic of um, you know, so CUNY is a social mobility school. 00:38:39.849 --> 00:38:46.730 I really expect uh respect the ethic of using education as a way to improve one's life. 00:38:47.690 --> 00:38:48.809 I love that. 00:38:49.769 --> 00:38:50.650 Final question. 00:38:50.809 --> 00:38:59.450 We've talked a little bit about how tumultuous this time can be, especially for people who are queer working in the education or academic realms. 00:38:59.849 --> 00:39:05.210 What message, what words do you want to send to those folks who are listening right now? 00:39:11.210 --> 00:39:16.809 People are in all different circumstances, so there's no one piece of advice that works. 00:39:17.050 --> 00:39:41.930 Um I want to tell you what at CLAGs, we were in a position, we are in a position where when other um sectors or even other universities pulled back around um race, around gender, uh around LGBT, we pushed forward. 00:39:42.170 --> 00:39:46.490 Um, we had a lot of support at the graduate student to do at the graduate center to do that. 00:39:46.570 --> 00:39:50.970 So we expanded rather than strike, rather than silence. 00:39:51.210 --> 00:39:55.530 Our our um approach was to be louder than ever. 00:39:55.769 --> 00:40:00.010 Um, it was to bring in people who we know could amplify our message. 00:40:00.170 --> 00:40:07.849 We gave an award to Angela Davis last year, and she came and accepted that award, knowing that she could help us amplify our message. 00:40:07.930 --> 00:40:17.849 We gave an award to Queen Jean, who uh started Black Trans Liberation and the Black Trans Liberation Kitchen, feeds 15,000 New Yorkers um who don't have food every year. 00:40:17.930 --> 00:40:22.809 And Queen Jean also happened to win a Tony for a costume design for cats. 00:40:23.050 --> 00:40:23.210 Yes. 00:40:23.450 --> 00:40:30.490 And so people people are because we're allowed, people see that and they want to come help amplify our message. 00:40:30.570 --> 00:40:48.650 And of course, it's it's fun to come and and and uh accept an award when you're such a deserving people, um, but it's it's also a gift to us that they're giving us by coming and saying, hey, this is how CLGs, how we can help CLAGs um be louder than ever. 00:40:48.809 --> 00:40:51.369 That is not possible for everybody. 00:40:51.690 --> 00:40:57.130 And so while that should fit us, it's not gonna fit you. 00:40:57.289 --> 00:41:10.490 I I don't know the ins and outs of K through 12 education, but my assumption is a lot of decisions that I get to make, I wouldn't get to make if I were teaching K through 12. 00:41:10.650 --> 00:41:19.849 Um and decisions around how forward to be or how patient to be have to be determined, I think, based on where you're at. 00:41:20.090 --> 00:41:24.090 Where you're at individually, but where you're at um professionally. 00:41:24.490 --> 00:41:46.889 And so I think taking the temperature, getting a feel for what's possible, doing as much as what is possible where you are, um, but but not relying on a model that doesn't of success that that is not gonna work for you, um, even if you're impressed by it, or even if you want to honor it. 00:41:47.050 --> 00:41:52.409 If that's not what's gonna work for you, then you just have to figure out how you're doing it, how to do it where you are. 00:41:52.570 --> 00:41:59.450 There's a uh an author, his name was Larry Mitchell, and he wrote this uh queer manifesto. 00:41:59.610 --> 00:42:02.889 I'm gonna say a word people don't like, because this is the title of the manifesto. 00:42:02.970 --> 00:42:06.490 It's uh called The Faggots and Their Friends Between Revolutions. 00:42:06.809 --> 00:42:20.650 And one of his points in that incredible manifesto was that sometimes when you're between revolutions, you're going to feel weak and you might actually be weak, weak, but that's a rebuilding time. 00:42:20.809 --> 00:42:28.170 It's a time to make connections, maybe behind the scenes, because he said that even a weak link in a chain is a link in a chain. 00:42:28.329 --> 00:42:31.610 And so I think everybody just needs to feel like I'm still a link in the chain. 00:42:31.690 --> 00:42:43.369 They need to make connections while they can, because those connections once um once the climate changes, those connections are going to allow us to be stronger than ever. 00:42:43.530 --> 00:42:46.010 So I I would just encourage people to do that. 00:42:49.930 --> 00:42:52.650 Thank you for being a part of Queering Education. 00:42:52.809 --> 00:42:55.210 This is a Teaching Well Queer podcast. 00:42:55.369 --> 00:43:00.490 Take what you need from this conversation and bring it back into your classroom and your students. 00:43:00.650 --> 00:43:02.090 I'm Brian Stanton. 00:43:02.250 --> 00:43:04.889 Until next time, keep showing up.