WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.720 I am not hiding my uh profile. 00:00:03.439 --> 00:00:05.839 I am not hiding who I am. 00:00:09.759 --> 00:00:15.359 Welcome to Queering Education, where we challenge what school is and build what it should be. 00:00:15.519 --> 00:00:16.879 I'm Brian Stanton. 00:00:17.039 --> 00:00:25.039 This is a Teaching While Queer podcast about inclusive teaching, queer pedagogy, and showing up authentically in every classroom. 00:00:25.280 --> 00:00:27.440 Alright, let's do the work. 00:00:31.839 --> 00:00:37.840 Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of Queering Education, a Teaching While Queer podcast. 00:00:37.920 --> 00:00:39.679 I am your host, Brian Stanton. 00:00:39.759 --> 00:00:40.960 My pronouns are they, them. 00:00:41.439 --> 00:00:43.439 Today I'm joined by Sam. 00:00:43.600 --> 00:00:44.960 Hey Sam, how's it going? 00:00:45.280 --> 00:00:46.560 Hey Brian, I'm good. 00:00:46.640 --> 00:00:47.920 How are you doing today? 00:00:48.240 --> 00:00:49.759 I'm doing fantastic. 00:00:49.920 --> 00:00:52.320 I'm so glad to sit and spend some time with you. 00:00:52.479 --> 00:00:56.079 Can you tell everybody who's listening a little bit more about yourself? 00:00:56.560 --> 00:00:56.880 Sure. 00:00:57.039 --> 00:00:57.840 Hello, everyone. 00:00:58.000 --> 00:01:01.119 Hi, my name is Sarabjeep, but people call me Sam. 00:01:01.759 --> 00:01:05.920 I am an educator, a drag queen, and just a funny person. 00:01:06.079 --> 00:01:12.560 So I'm glad, you know, we are we are having this conversation and you're listening to our experiences. 00:01:12.799 --> 00:01:14.719 So enjoy. 00:01:16.400 --> 00:01:30.480 I am so excited to dive into uh a conversation with you because the intersectionality of drag and education has been such a talking point the last decade or so, especially from conservative folks. 00:01:30.560 --> 00:01:36.319 So I'm interested to hear your take on all that and how it's impacted the work that you do. 00:01:36.480 --> 00:01:41.599 Um to start, I'm curious what what made you decide to go into education? 00:01:42.480 --> 00:02:06.879 So after my grade 12 year or like year one, I wanted to teach because I was already in, you know, uh in sciences and I like to like discuss and like share my opinions on like topics with my friends, and that kind of ventured into me uh professionally taking like tuition classes. 00:02:07.040 --> 00:02:12.719 But that was back in India, that was like I don't know, 15, 17 years ago at this point. 00:02:13.280 --> 00:02:25.680 Um and that's how I kind of started with like teaching as a as a side business, and then eventually um I kind of ventured into teaching in colleges. 00:02:25.919 --> 00:02:36.960 So I I was um a professor in George Bourne Clark College, which is in Toronto, uh, did that gig for like two and a half years, and then they stopped the immigration. 00:02:37.120 --> 00:02:46.639 So um they were like, okay, we have to like let a lot of teachers um, you know, exit the the the contracts and stuff. 00:02:46.879 --> 00:02:52.000 And then um, and then at the same time I was doing my bachelor's of education. 00:02:52.159 --> 00:03:06.319 Um now at this point I'm licensed for the past year and a half, and I am doing um uh contract gigs uh with OCDSB, which is the Ottawa Carlton District School Board here in Canada. 00:03:06.879 --> 00:03:11.439 So yeah, it's a long time coming to become a licensed teacher here. 00:03:11.840 --> 00:03:35.919 Yeah, I bet and I think that there's such um this is something I've talked about with other folks on the podcast, is just how different um degrees are treated in different countries um as if the education systems aren't similar um and the things that we're talking about are not um relatively universal. 00:03:36.080 --> 00:03:38.719 I think specifically about like doctors. 00:03:38.960 --> 00:03:58.879 Um there are you know people with medical licenses from other countries that can't practice medicine in the United States, or if they try to, it's a very, very lengthy process where it's almost easier or time-wise easier to just go to medical school here, um, which I find absolutely ridiculous. 00:03:59.759 --> 00:04:03.199 Well, that's how they control the crowd. 00:04:03.520 --> 00:04:07.280 Then that is lengthy and difficult, right? 00:04:07.520 --> 00:04:13.439 So if they won't do it, everyone will become a doctor, then every problem is solved. 00:04:14.240 --> 00:04:18.160 And then how will they upcharge you for every single procedure? 00:04:18.639 --> 00:04:19.600 That's how it goes. 00:04:19.680 --> 00:04:20.639 It's business mind. 00:04:20.720 --> 00:04:27.360 The less the number of people they will have in the circulation, the higher they can charge is supply and demand. 00:04:27.600 --> 00:04:29.920 Yep, it's capitalism right there at work. 00:04:30.079 --> 00:04:30.560 Absolutely. 00:04:31.439 --> 00:04:34.240 What is it that you teach at the university level now? 00:04:34.800 --> 00:04:45.360 So I don't teach at the university level currently, but I was uh when back when I was in George Brown, I was uh teaching healthcare. 00:04:45.519 --> 00:04:47.360 So I'm a pharmacy graduate. 00:04:47.439 --> 00:04:52.879 I did my bachelor's of pharmacy and then a few other degrees back in India. 00:04:53.120 --> 00:04:57.120 Then I moved here, did my master's uh in pharmacy. 00:04:57.759 --> 00:05:04.000 Um, I'm still waiting for my license to get my pharmacy my pharmacist license in Canada. 00:05:04.079 --> 00:05:09.519 It's a lengthy process, as you said, medical, um, you know, for the medical profession. 00:05:09.759 --> 00:05:14.639 Same with the pharmacy, it's just like too much of too many exams at this point. 00:05:15.519 --> 00:05:21.600 Um, so yeah, um, I teach I was teaching healthcare back in colleges. 00:05:21.759 --> 00:05:33.600 I was a TA as well at University of Waterloo, and I was doing pharmaceutical chemistry slash pharmacology slash um pharmaceutics. 00:05:34.319 --> 00:05:41.120 So a lot of different subjects I I taught at like university level and slash college level, of course. 00:05:41.680 --> 00:05:43.360 It's so interesting to me. 00:05:43.439 --> 00:05:55.600 Um, you know, pharmaceuticals and and working in healthcare, uh specifically in education, and I'm curious how your like your queerness has shown up in the work that you've done. 00:05:56.800 --> 00:06:12.720 Um so to answer that question, I have um I have a really kind of you know, I want to share one experience which kind of led me to get into the Bachelor's of Education program. 00:06:13.360 --> 00:06:18.639 Um so back in so I am currently in Ottawa, which is a capital city. 00:06:18.879 --> 00:06:31.600 Uh I was in Toronto before, and um I was working full-time at the same time I was working um as Malika, which is my drag persona. 00:06:32.160 --> 00:06:47.759 And because I have that education, because I was in education part-time, anyways, I was partnering up with like a company back in Toronto, which uh used to host, they still do, I just don't work with them anymore because I'm in a different city. 00:06:48.079 --> 00:06:59.199 Uh, so they used to organize these events where Malika used to go to different schools to talk about you know different aspects. 00:06:59.519 --> 00:07:26.319 Sometimes it's a dance class because I'm a also classically trained dancer, um, and you know, talk about how my representation matters in the world of drag because my drag persona is kind of one-off situation where I I mean there are, of course, uh now we have more uh drag queens coming from the South Asian diaspora. 00:07:26.720 --> 00:08:03.600 Uh, so I was definitely one of the first few ones in Toronto where um you know I was like joining my drag and my culture to bring something different to the audience because everybody's like everybody knows about RuPaul's drag race, so they know how a drag queen looks like, but um, a lot of people have not seen a South Asian drag queen, so um, and you know, bringing culture and dancing to or performing to Bollywood numbers, um, so that was kind of pretty unique to um uh you know, a lot of people. 00:08:03.920 --> 00:08:34.720 And when um when I started performing more often back in Toronto, that was like 2017-2018, a lot of people used to come and are like, oh, we have never seen a South Asian racque, and you know, and then eventually when I ventured into this, the you know, performing in schools or uh and collaborating with teachers, um, you know, people used to come, especially from the South Asian background, you know, um background and uh to attend the workshops I used to host. 00:08:34.960 --> 00:08:58.159 And then um that kind of you know gave me an idea why don't I kind of go into the education line because then that way I'll be more connected with the students, because what we see usually is um the diversity in the teacher populations, but you know, in um in North America generally is not that diverse. 00:08:58.399 --> 00:09:03.600 We do have some diversity, but we don't we don't see a lot of diversity per se. 00:09:04.159 --> 00:09:17.039 And in order, and if you like kind of look, you know, into the queer category, we do not see really uh a lot of queer people of color or BIPOC community people, right? 00:09:17.200 --> 00:09:30.720 And then on top of it, you do not see somebody who's like a six-foot-tall guy, but has this feminine voice and you know, um, and expresses themselves very kind of you know openly. 00:09:31.120 --> 00:09:54.480 So that kind of layers upon layers upon layers, and then and then uh people who connect with me who like from the South Asian background, South Asian community, and then they are also in the queer population, or they identify as um you know queer, they do not see their uh they they getting represented in any media, right? 00:09:55.360 --> 00:10:06.720 No, like not on TV, maybe like one out of like 100 people on TV or something like that, uh, but not in very rarely in school systems. 00:10:07.519 --> 00:10:20.960 So, you know, the when I started and when I did the the workshop for the first time, a lot of students, um, especially in like grade 11 and 12s, there were like some who were like in grade 9 and 10. 00:10:21.120 --> 00:10:26.480 They came up to me after the event, they were like, and it's so nice meeting uh an another adult. 00:10:26.720 --> 00:10:29.840 They did not say teacher, they say adult, right? 00:10:30.399 --> 00:10:34.639 That uh that is so accepting of their culture and their queerness. 00:10:34.799 --> 00:10:48.639 That kind of moved me into, you know, um, or kind of directed me into that area of um, why don't I make this another profession where you know I will be uh in contact with students, right? 00:10:48.720 --> 00:11:12.879 And I will kind of, I'm not gonna say I'll kind of guide them, but at least I will set an example um or uh as a representation where you know they can see that there are people like myself who are successful, and you know, you can also be successful if you just keep working hard and and keep continuing what you're doing. 00:11:13.440 --> 00:11:16.639 I don't know if it makes sense, but absolutely. 00:11:16.960 --> 00:11:25.919 One of the things I really love about your story is that for many of us who are in education and who are queer, our queerness has been an obstacle that we've had to kind of overcome. 00:11:26.159 --> 00:11:30.240 Um, and what I love about your story is that it was almost an entry point for you. 00:11:30.559 --> 00:11:49.440 You you were going into these spaces in drag as an educator, and it opened a door for you to a world of like, oh, maybe I should go do this because you were able to have some really authentic connections with the people who were in the room with you. 00:11:49.679 --> 00:11:55.120 Um, you mentioned that sometimes you were teaching uh dance workshops and whatnot. 00:11:55.200 --> 00:12:00.240 What other kind of workshops does that organization uh provide for students? 00:12:31.049 --> 00:12:37.610 So they do a lot of um kind of South Asian specific workshops with me. 00:12:37.769 --> 00:12:42.329 So I did like Diwali celebration workshop, I did uh dance workshops. 00:12:42.490 --> 00:13:00.329 Most majority of them was like with those kind of workshops, and then they also booked me for uh for a performance uh in Mississauga with the with the biggest stage, like the South Asian stage we have um in um in North America. 00:13:00.649 --> 00:13:07.610 So I was I was one of the performers there, and then I would just keep like working with them continuously. 00:13:07.769 --> 00:13:15.209 It's like it's not like every single week, but it was like once every like month or so, or like once every two months or so. 00:13:15.449 --> 00:13:17.689 Yeah, for like almost two years. 00:13:18.009 --> 00:13:18.889 That's awesome. 00:13:19.049 --> 00:13:22.409 Uh, and I love that it was really uh centered on your culture. 00:13:22.490 --> 00:13:32.889 Um because one of my favorite things, one of my favorite jobs I ever had was working at a theme park uh where we did uh different types of events and had different types of like stages at our events. 00:13:33.049 --> 00:13:49.129 And my job was to bring community groups in so that these nonprofit groups could come to the theme park, they would perform whatever it was there, they would perform their uh cultural pieces, and then they get to spend the rest of the day in the theme park. 00:13:49.370 --> 00:13:59.449 And um, I loved it so much because I got to see people sharing their culture with other folks and just living it up. 00:13:59.769 --> 00:14:08.089 Huge smiles on their faces, the appreciation that they have to just be able to be on stage and share their talents and their culture. 00:14:08.409 --> 00:14:11.769 Um, and I think more of that needs to happen everywhere. 00:14:11.929 --> 00:14:15.129 It can't just be in the pockets of large cities and whatnot. 00:14:15.289 --> 00:14:25.370 The the small towns need to see um what a true melting pot looks like and and what vast beauty there is in the different cultures of the world. 00:14:25.689 --> 00:14:26.329 Yeah. 00:14:26.649 --> 00:15:05.689 And that's kind of uh is my uh my kind of aim is uh with drag as well, because even though I'm in Ottawa, which is a big city, comparatively uh bigger city, um, but like I go to like smaller cities around Ottawa region to have my shows, and I do Bollywood numbers, and most of the time I do not see uh a lot of people of color, but I'm like, hey, I'm gonna do Bollywood if you like or not, if you like it or not, and they enjoy it, they eat it up like like tomorrow, so today's Friday, so tomorrow is Saturday. 00:15:05.849 --> 00:15:14.009 I have a show in Brockville, which is like um very small town, I'll say, with like 20,000 population. 00:15:14.250 --> 00:15:19.449 And me and my uh business partner, Tanya King, we uh host our show there. 00:15:19.689 --> 00:15:22.889 Uh for like a community of like 20,000 people. 00:15:23.129 --> 00:15:31.209 Um you will like, I don't know how many people are gonna show up, but usually most of the time, we have our house full for the event. 00:15:31.529 --> 00:15:46.569 Like 40-50 people come, and most of that time they are not from the community, they're like just people living their life in Brockwell, and they show up for a nice you know, evening of drag and beer and uh food. 00:15:46.969 --> 00:16:00.089 So that's kind of you know my thing is uh, and they of course sometimes it's an open event where it's like um people who are like younger um than 18 uh you know show up as well. 00:16:00.169 --> 00:16:12.089 But this event is of course um because it's in a bar, it's 18 plus, but then we also do a show in Ottawa, me and my friend, where it's open to everybody. 00:16:12.329 --> 00:16:19.529 So we have people um who like who are bringing their kids maybe like 8, 9, 10, maybe in like high school. 00:16:19.610 --> 00:16:32.329 So they bring their kids as well to you know just see and enjoy drag because they most of them have seen drag on TV because of RuPaul's drag race, and like we have drag race Canada as well. 00:16:32.649 --> 00:16:48.089 Um, but they want to because they cannot go to a bar where the drag bar, but um you know, me and my my friend we bring the the drag to like outside the bar culture where anybody can join, so that's fun. 00:16:48.569 --> 00:16:49.529 I love that. 00:16:49.769 --> 00:16:57.449 I love uh family-friendly shows and all-age shows because I do think that people need to understand that it's a performance art. 00:16:57.610 --> 00:17:01.449 Um and it's a lot of joy is so much joy. 00:17:01.849 --> 00:17:16.490 Drag is one of my favorite things and has been a staple in my life since gosh, it's been 20 years of me going and supporting local queens and just living it up and and watching them live up, live it up on stage. 00:17:16.650 --> 00:17:25.450 And so um, there's so much joy in something that you know other folks are kind of corrupting to fit their agenda. 00:17:25.610 --> 00:17:34.170 I'm curious about that and whether or not you dealt it with any backlash uh about being a drag queen who is also an educator. 00:17:34.250 --> 00:17:37.210 Um, and if you have, like how do you handle that? 00:17:38.009 --> 00:17:42.890 So I have um in multiple occasions actually. 00:17:43.130 --> 00:17:49.529 I remember I was telling about um I used to go to the schools um to do workshop and stuff. 00:17:49.690 --> 00:18:06.490 Um so back in 2022, um I was uh I was asked to um perform slash um do a workshop uh in a school in Brampton, and it was June. 00:18:06.730 --> 00:18:14.410 So it was kind of end of semester here, and then um they wanted to celebrate um the Pride Month. 00:18:14.570 --> 00:18:17.610 Um so they were there was like a flag wasting thing and stuff. 00:18:17.850 --> 00:18:28.330 Now there were like some protesters outside, you know, protesting against um the pride, um, you know, the pride flag and stuff. 00:18:28.650 --> 00:18:45.210 So I have seen it, it just did not um it did not like came directly on the kids, but a few days after there was another workshop which I heard it was not actually a work, it was a a full-on performance. 00:18:45.370 --> 00:18:57.930 Uh, and one of the known colleagues in um a drag performer as well, they had to face like a whole strike outside of school, so that was kind of scary. 00:18:58.570 --> 00:19:04.970 Um, so that was like the first ever interaction with the the haters per se. 00:19:05.289 --> 00:19:20.090 And then um interestingly, in my first year of teaching practicum, um now mind you, I I was by that time I was like seven years in into my drag career, and my Instagram is pretty open. 00:19:20.250 --> 00:19:28.090 I make videos, I you know, I post video uh my pictures getting ready with me, and like you know, where am I performing next? 00:19:28.250 --> 00:19:32.330 That was open, and you know how kids are savvy, right? 00:19:32.570 --> 00:19:43.050 How like internet savvy they are, so like let's just find about this missed guy, and then and then I don't know how. 00:19:43.210 --> 00:19:50.650 I mean, of course, you when you're like in the vicinity of like a lot of devices, they're gonna pick up who they who other person is, right? 00:19:50.890 --> 00:20:00.090 So somebody might have gotten um uh you know in suggestion about my profile because it's open, it's public, right? 00:20:00.170 --> 00:20:06.009 And I in my drag profile I also post me outside drag and me in drag. 00:20:06.330 --> 00:20:14.009 So they might must have seen like a video of me just getting ready, you know, getting in drag uh makeup video. 00:20:14.810 --> 00:20:18.410 That person have told the class. 00:20:18.650 --> 00:20:28.970 The class have told my uh AT, and then that whole thing was like, can you uh hide your um Instagram? 00:20:29.370 --> 00:20:51.210 Uh and that kind of you know started with discussion, went to the university, and I was like, I am not doing that, I am not hiding my uh profile, I am not hiding who I am, I am not doing drag unless I'm told to do so in the classroom, right? 00:20:51.370 --> 00:20:54.810 I'm very respectful to the kids, right? 00:20:55.370 --> 00:21:00.890 Um, that time that was like a couple of years ago at this point, 2023, so like three years ago. 00:21:01.130 --> 00:21:02.890 Um, so I'm not doing that. 00:21:03.050 --> 00:21:09.850 Sorry, I had to stand my stance of like this is my way of living, this is how I make money, right? 00:21:10.250 --> 00:21:15.690 And I'm like, I'm telling when I'm performing next, you don't have to come. 00:21:16.009 --> 00:21:24.890 Anyways, if you come, you have to get ID'd and you consent to being in a show when you're entering the premises, right? 00:21:25.289 --> 00:21:26.970 I'm not doing any of that thing. 00:21:27.130 --> 00:21:47.130 If you want to do this, if you want to take it to the union, by all means, because I have my I have my rights, and in teachers' education program, I don't know if this um yeah, because every city has like different, you know, schools and every single school system has like different kinds of uh rules. 00:21:47.450 --> 00:21:53.130 But when I was in my teacher's education, they were like, keep your personal life, you know, hidden and blah blah blah blah blah. 00:21:53.289 --> 00:21:56.730 And I was like, sure, but what if if I'm a performer? 00:21:57.130 --> 00:21:59.289 That was my genuine question. 00:21:59.370 --> 00:22:09.050 I am not promoting any OF links, and I'm not prof uh you know, promoting any vulgarity, I'm just show showcasing my talent, right? 00:22:09.130 --> 00:22:12.890 And I'm showcasing where I'm performing next. 00:22:13.210 --> 00:22:23.450 So I don't know what your problem is, but I'm not hiding myself or my social media because that's one of the ways I make money and I put food on my table. 00:22:23.690 --> 00:22:29.930 So yeah, I have a struggle with social media policy. 00:22:30.490 --> 00:22:45.610 In education, because there's this double standard that like you are not allowed to be human, you are only allowed to be an educator, whether you're working or not working, and that that does not work for me. 00:22:45.850 --> 00:22:58.650 Um, and it is not tenable for educators, um, because you cannot parse who you are like that and and always present in a specific way publicly, period. 00:23:00.410 --> 00:23:01.130 You know what? 00:23:01.289 --> 00:23:05.690 I agree to that, and my question, I I agree to what you're saying. 00:23:05.769 --> 00:23:15.610 I'm not saying the rules are like right, but my thing is so if you want me to be an educator 24-7, are you paying me for 24-7? 00:23:16.250 --> 00:23:16.890 That part. 00:23:17.370 --> 00:23:20.330 They're barely paying folks for the hours that they're actually working. 00:23:20.730 --> 00:23:21.529 Exactly. 00:23:21.850 --> 00:23:31.370 Like, if you want me to not rely on other sources of income, give us the money, right? 00:23:31.930 --> 00:23:43.610 Also, that's for I don't know how other people kind of you know um think about uh like you know release their energy, like you know, that frustration and stuff. 00:23:43.769 --> 00:23:44.970 For me, it's drag. 00:23:45.130 --> 00:23:51.529 If I don't do drag, um now last week I did not do drag because I was like taking a break, because I had like shows back to back to back. 00:23:51.610 --> 00:23:56.490 I'm like last week I'm like taking a uh a week off, and that's why you see a beard. 00:23:56.650 --> 00:24:04.570 Now, this we're gonna go off tomorrow, and then I have shows back to back to back because in August we have the Pride Month in Ottawa, right? 00:24:04.970 --> 00:24:13.130 That's kind of my way of like you know making sure that I I I'm sane during the week, right? 00:24:13.370 --> 00:24:35.769 So that's kind of my way of like expressing myself and because I'm in education, I don't get to really like you know do anything because I'm like A, I'm usually running late, B, I do not have an extra hour to get ready in the morning, and C, I just run around, it's it's summer, it's I'm sweaty, I don't want to deal with you know my running makeup in a classroom, right? 00:24:36.009 --> 00:24:40.009 So I don't do that now on the weekend. 00:24:40.090 --> 00:24:45.529 If I am if I have like a couple shows, why is it your problem? 00:24:46.490 --> 00:24:47.050 Right? 00:24:48.570 --> 00:24:58.970 As an educator, my job is to make sure your kid is safe, your kid is learning, and your kid is set for success. 00:24:59.850 --> 00:25:09.850 Right if I have problem with uh if you have problem with my way of education or my way of teaching, then you can question. 00:25:10.009 --> 00:25:14.730 If you have questions regarding my credentials, then you can you know have a discussion. 00:25:14.970 --> 00:25:21.210 Whatever I do outside the classroom should not concern you, right? 00:25:21.769 --> 00:25:27.769 Because some teachers are um you know performing artists as well, like myself. 00:25:27.930 --> 00:25:29.690 There are other people as well, right? 00:25:29.930 --> 00:25:32.330 Some people do other things, right? 00:25:33.370 --> 00:25:45.289 Whatever I'm doing in in public, even in public, if it's if it says it's 18 plus, you shouldn't be concerned because you're not there anyways, right? 00:25:45.930 --> 00:25:53.529 Sometimes, like now, you know, there are drag race, so maybe in future I don't know what will gonna happen. 00:25:53.769 --> 00:26:02.890 But if I end up there, right, you'll be like, oh, my teacher is on drag race, eliminate this teacher because you know this person is on TV. 00:26:03.210 --> 00:26:04.330 Who does that? 00:26:04.890 --> 00:26:05.210 Right? 00:26:05.289 --> 00:26:07.130 I'm rather representing. 00:26:07.769 --> 00:26:09.850 So exactly. 00:26:10.009 --> 00:26:12.250 I'm like that part, it's free publicity. 00:26:15.450 --> 00:26:19.050 Um if you have a problem with my education, sure. 00:26:19.450 --> 00:26:24.170 You have questions, but if I'm like doing whatever, you shouldn't be concerned. 00:26:24.570 --> 00:26:25.210 Absolutely. 00:26:25.370 --> 00:26:32.410 I really have a hard time with the way that capitalism believes that bosses own you and your persona 24-7. 00:26:32.730 --> 00:26:38.009 Like it doesn't even, it's not exclusive to education, though education gets a lot of flack about it. 00:26:38.170 --> 00:26:48.810 But there's no, there is no way that just because you're receiving a paycheck means that the company owns your voice and your image and whatnot. 00:26:49.050 --> 00:26:53.450 And I have that same problem when people say that like celebrities shouldn't speak about politics. 00:26:53.610 --> 00:26:57.370 Well, no, they're human beings, they're allowed to speak about whatever they want. 00:26:57.529 --> 00:26:59.130 Even if I disagree with them, great. 00:26:59.289 --> 00:27:02.410 You're allowed to say it, and now I know I disagree with you. 00:27:04.330 --> 00:27:16.570 It's it's wild to me that people really believe that, and this it comes down to uh so many generations being told that there's specific things we don't talk about, right? 00:27:16.730 --> 00:27:22.650 We don't talk about money, we don't talk about politics, and we don't talk about religion because they start arguments. 00:27:22.810 --> 00:27:32.650 Well, when you don't talk about things, it creates a culture where you're not allowed to say things and it extends beyond those three topics. 00:27:32.890 --> 00:27:33.690 You know what I'm saying? 00:27:33.850 --> 00:27:36.730 Yeah that is hostility. 00:27:36.810 --> 00:27:49.130 If you're not sharing how you're feeling, then and I I mean, pe people in our age group, we have bottled a lot of feelings in us, right? 00:27:49.370 --> 00:27:53.450 The younger generation just says whatever they want to say, right? 00:27:53.529 --> 00:28:03.930 And I'm learning from them, let's be honest, as a teacher, when you uh meet all these young kids, they're like, they will share their feelings like nobody's business. 00:28:04.890 --> 00:28:10.810 And I'm like, look at us, we can't say anything because if we say anything, we'll get in trouble. 00:28:12.970 --> 00:28:17.850 Or and then when we finally say it, we've rehearsed it 37 times in our brain. 00:28:18.170 --> 00:28:22.170 Oh no, we say it in therapy, but then I'm drunk. 00:28:22.410 --> 00:28:24.410 I don't believe in therapy. 00:28:26.330 --> 00:28:27.370 That's hysterical. 00:28:27.529 --> 00:28:30.009 No, we say it in therapy, we never bring it up. 00:28:30.410 --> 00:28:31.050 Exactly. 00:28:31.289 --> 00:28:43.289 I'm like, I I definitely learn from some of the un uh inhibited things I've heard my students say, and be like, you know, what you said was totally correct. 00:28:43.450 --> 00:28:49.529 The tone is your tone, and that's what you feel, and that's okay. 00:28:49.690 --> 00:29:07.610 And this fact that we have been so uh conditioned to evaluate the way that people perceive us, that we won't say things, or we adjust our tone when we say things, or the fact that soft communication skills have to exist. 00:29:08.250 --> 00:29:14.490 Um, which is the, you know, thank you so much for responding to my email so quickly. 00:29:14.650 --> 00:29:29.130 I wanted to follow up on this, uh, you know, all that kind of extra fluff language, when realistically, I feel like we'd get a lot more done and we'd have a lot clearer understanding of people if we just said what was on our mind. 00:29:29.529 --> 00:29:30.490 Exactly. 00:29:31.210 --> 00:29:35.930 And I guess that's why I tell that's my practice at this point. 00:29:36.009 --> 00:29:40.490 I'm like somebody said, Can I email you on the weekend? 00:29:40.730 --> 00:29:51.690 No, no, end of discussion, no, and they're like, Yeah, fair, you know, we I don't want to just and that was my student. 00:29:51.769 --> 00:29:54.170 Like, can I uh and can I email you on the weekend? 00:29:54.250 --> 00:29:54.970 I'm like, no. 00:29:55.529 --> 00:29:59.850 And I'm like, fair, you know, you have your personal life, you should enjoy, blah blah blah blah blah. 00:30:00.009 --> 00:30:03.450 And students understand, right? 00:30:03.769 --> 00:30:25.210 And and with what I'm see seeing this, um, you know, in the in the classroom, now everyone's like doing all the lingo which was supposed to be stemming from um, you know, the 60s and the 70s, and it kind of entered um the drag community, and I was we were doing clock it and and all those things. 00:30:25.289 --> 00:30:27.529 And I I was starting drag, right? 00:30:27.610 --> 00:30:47.610 My elders, my drag elders, my um, you know, my aunties, I don't have a drag mother, but my aunties and my sisters were like, you know, speaking the lingo, and then it kind of entered because back in when I started, the drag race was pretty fresh, it didn't like picked up as like a mainstream kind of thing, right? 00:30:47.930 --> 00:30:57.450 Um, and then there was no franchise back in the um, you know, the other drag race franchise, and now everyone is like speaking the language, including in my classroom. 00:30:57.529 --> 00:31:08.730 I don't like oh, so now you're gonna do this and you're gonna do this, everything in the classroom, but we were the one who like did it, and I'm like, okay, well, you wanna do it? 00:31:08.890 --> 00:31:10.410 Sure, I I'll do it. 00:31:11.210 --> 00:31:24.170 And it's funny because whenever uh I taught middle school last year, and all the way down, like sixth, seventh, and eighth graders were were telling me, you know, clock it, or oh, that's a T, Mr. 00:31:24.250 --> 00:31:29.450 Stanton, all this stuff, and I'm like, first of all, let's have a conversation. 00:31:29.610 --> 00:31:48.410 So then the first time I hear the language, I'm like, okay, let's talk about the origins and how this comes from uh black, trans people of color, uh drag queens from the 60s, 70s, and 80s, and how somehow it has trickled down to middle school. 00:31:48.570 --> 00:31:55.289 And now you have all this language, and the words you're saying are correct and you're using them in the right context. 00:31:55.690 --> 00:32:03.610 But I need you to understand where your lineage comes from and who who created these things, and then it became a thing, like clock it became a thing. 00:32:03.690 --> 00:32:15.529 I have a I have a sleigh um fan, and so when people would perform really well, because I teach theater, they would get the sleigh fan, you know, clacking away at them, and everybody would go crazy. 00:32:15.690 --> 00:32:29.370 Um and it's really amusing to me because I truly believe that that middle school and high school students are baby drag queens, uh, and and early college students, they're all like baby drag queens. 00:32:29.450 --> 00:32:36.730 They use all the terminology, they have the gesticulation and they're doing clock it with their fingers and all the things. 00:32:36.970 --> 00:32:44.890 Um, and I love it so much, but then I have to take a breath and be like, okay, but do you know where it comes from? 00:32:45.130 --> 00:32:50.730 And if they don't, we have a conversation, and then it becomes something that they research. 00:32:50.970 --> 00:33:02.250 The the best way for me to like uh get my students to pay attention to some policies in class was actually because of TikTok uh and the trans community, right? 00:33:02.410 --> 00:33:10.410 It was, oh wow, do you see how these folks are sitting here watching this performance right now with their eyes up front? 00:33:10.730 --> 00:33:35.130 Very mindful, very demure, and like reappropriating, not reappropriating, but utilizing queer language and uh trans people of color utilizing the language to connect with young people and how much they love it, how much they love it. 00:33:36.170 --> 00:33:43.450 And every single person, and this is not every single person, but most of the students know about RuPaul's drag race. 00:33:43.930 --> 00:33:47.130 I teach grade 11s and 12s, mostly grade 12s. 00:33:47.289 --> 00:33:53.690 They know about RuPaul's drag race, they know about the queens, they know about the kings, they know about everything. 00:33:54.330 --> 00:34:03.289 They have seen my some of them have seen my pictures with all the artists, you know, on my Instagram and stuff, or like I'm performing next to them. 00:34:03.450 --> 00:34:07.610 So they know I don't I so here's the thing, I don't initiate. 00:34:08.090 --> 00:34:10.090 Like that's what my rule is. 00:34:10.329 --> 00:34:11.130 I am Mr. 00:34:11.289 --> 00:34:14.329 G in the classroom, and I will act like one. 00:34:14.969 --> 00:34:30.409 I I might uh slide in some like you know, clock or you know, that's the T or whatever here and there, but not on your on not on regular, and then I'm your teacher at the end of the day, so you respect me as your teacher, right? 00:34:30.730 --> 00:34:49.210 But then some students are like, you know, you know, just like on the social medias and stuff, so they know, and I like I don't tell them, but then I have ex I have um uh you know situations where some of my students showed up in my show, which is like open to public. 00:34:50.090 --> 00:34:51.050 Perfect. 00:34:51.690 --> 00:34:52.809 You're more than welcome. 00:34:52.970 --> 00:34:54.250 I'm not gonna say anything. 00:34:54.409 --> 00:34:55.289 You're more than welcome. 00:34:55.450 --> 00:34:58.090 Enjoy, take a picture, show it to your friends. 00:34:58.409 --> 00:34:58.809 Sure. 00:34:59.210 --> 00:35:02.329 And I have those pictures on my social media as well. 00:35:02.570 --> 00:35:04.730 Um, I take permissions before. 00:35:04.889 --> 00:35:07.610 Um, so like, is it okay if I put it on social media and stuff? 00:35:07.769 --> 00:35:08.889 I'm like, yeah, sure. 00:35:09.130 --> 00:35:15.050 Um so I have had those experiences as well, including the parents. 00:35:15.210 --> 00:35:17.769 The parents of the students show up as well sometimes. 00:35:17.849 --> 00:35:20.090 I'm like, cool. 00:35:20.250 --> 00:35:25.130 Well, you're more than welcome because it's a public event, it's a pride event in June. 00:35:25.369 --> 00:35:28.970 I cannot stop you just because you're in my classroom, right? 00:35:29.289 --> 00:35:30.409 So you just enjoy. 00:35:32.409 --> 00:35:36.889 I'm curious what things are bringing you joy right now. 00:35:38.730 --> 00:35:41.690 Um a lot of things. 00:35:42.010 --> 00:35:48.570 So um I have my contracts, um, which is going um well. 00:35:48.970 --> 00:36:07.450 I have my shows, which is kind of keeping me busy, and then um also uh because I create my most of my drag myself, though that kind of um, you know, just like doing something very I will say calming. 00:36:08.010 --> 00:36:13.530 Um because making dresses and stuff, some people get stressed out with it. 00:36:13.769 --> 00:36:17.450 For me, it's like alright, it's a relaxing relaxing thing. 00:36:17.530 --> 00:36:24.090 I just have to like shut off my brain and just like just in the you know just make dresses and stuff. 00:36:24.329 --> 00:36:31.130 So at this point, that's the the couple things which are like you know, making my life interesting at the same time. 00:36:31.369 --> 00:36:34.490 Um, you know, I'm just enjoying it. 00:36:34.809 --> 00:36:35.690 I love that. 00:36:35.930 --> 00:36:38.570 I also find sewing machines very calming. 00:36:38.730 --> 00:36:47.930 The the whirr of the sewing machine, I can listen to it all day, just you know, doing seams or whatever I happen to be doing at the moment. 00:36:48.090 --> 00:36:50.650 Um I love it. 00:36:50.970 --> 00:36:53.289 Vacuuming used to be that thing when I was a kid. 00:36:53.450 --> 00:36:56.090 There's just something about noise. 00:36:57.289 --> 00:36:58.809 Sorry to say that again. 00:36:59.050 --> 00:37:01.130 Oh, vacuuming when I was a kid. 00:37:01.289 --> 00:37:06.730 There's something about like spinning machine sound that like is common to me. 00:37:07.930 --> 00:37:10.250 My question was have you ever tried drag? 00:37:10.730 --> 00:37:16.490 Yeah, I've tried drag a couple of times, mostly for costume parties, not for actual performance. 00:37:16.809 --> 00:37:18.090 You should give it a try. 00:37:18.409 --> 00:37:19.450 I should give it a try. 00:37:19.530 --> 00:37:20.730 You're absolutely right. 00:37:21.050 --> 00:37:25.130 Um I would, I guarantee I would have a blast with it. 00:37:25.369 --> 00:37:35.130 Um because I I like performing also, and I like performing even better when I'm in a character as opposed to up on stage singing a song myself. 00:37:35.450 --> 00:37:43.369 Um this has been a really fun conversation, and I want to end it with your final thoughts. 00:37:43.530 --> 00:37:48.730 Like, what do you want people to hear right now in this moment um as they listen to the episode? 00:37:49.369 --> 00:37:53.769 Well, queer educators, I'm so proud of all of you. 00:37:54.010 --> 00:38:05.289 You're doing an amazing job supporting the kids, uh, especially the uh the queer kids um and dealing with all the stuff we have to deal with. 00:38:05.369 --> 00:38:06.970 So I'm so proud of you. 00:38:07.210 --> 00:38:11.050 I wish you best of luck for your future and your teaching career. 00:38:11.210 --> 00:38:13.849 I hope we cross paths sometimes. 00:38:14.010 --> 00:38:17.369 Uh, and if we do, let's just spill some tea. 00:38:19.450 --> 00:38:20.090 All right. 00:38:24.409 --> 00:38:27.289 Thank you for being a part of Queering Education. 00:38:27.450 --> 00:38:29.849 This is a Teaching Well Queer podcast. 00:38:30.010 --> 00:38:35.050 Take what you need from this conversation and bring it back into your classroom and your students. 00:38:35.210 --> 00:38:36.650 I'm Brian Stanton. 00:38:36.809 --> 00:38:39.690 Until next time, keep showing up.