Episode 104 – Isiah McKimmie

In this episode of Connect, Dave Sheehan chats with Couples Therapist, Sexologist and Coach Isiah McKimmie about the patient/practitioner relationship, staying in scope and much more!

Transcript

Intro

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hi, I'm Asaya Makimi. I'm a couples therapist and sexologist, and I'm really excited to be talking to Dave Sheehan on Connect about how relationships impact health and how we can set really healthy boundaries with clients while also contributing to their well-being.

SPEAKER_00 0:25

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Isiah McKimmie

SPEAKER_02 1:02

Hi everyone, this is Dave Sheehan from the Connect Show. I'm extremely excited to have Isaiah McKinney with me today. Um sexologist and uh relationships um therapist. So welcome.

SPEAKER_01 1:17

Thanks so much, Dave.

SPEAKER_02 1:19

Now um my first introduction to you was actually via the association webinars. There were there were three that you put together, um, which were um watched by many members, by the way. Um though really successful in terms of uh turnout for the number of people that actually um came and had a look at had a look at those. Um so let's just talk, we'll just start straight off the bat as far as your background and why I think the association wanted to bring you in to do those webinars.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

So, really, my my role is helping um both individuals and and couples with their challenges around relationships and sexuality. I am a relational psychotherapist, is one of my foundational qualifications. Um, I also um have a master's in sexual health, um, and I've been training other therapists, but also more broadly, other healthcare practitioners on how to how to support their clients around the really important but really delicate topics of relationships and sexuality, because we do know that relationships and sexuality um, they impact all of us. They are so crucial to our health, and they're topics that so many of us just weren't taught about and don't have the skills to deal with really well, both as, you know, as someone experiencing that, but also as professionals supporting them.

SPEAKER_02 2:48

Absolutely. And um I think, well, we did, we had a little chat before we came on air today. We wanted to possess, I mean, there are so many things that we could talk about um during this Connect show, but a couple that stood out for me, and I mentioned this to you, a being male, that whole practitioner um patient relationship, how important it was to actually have um that discussed as well. Yeah. Um that was one thing that I yeah, that I wanted to talk to you about. So, did you want to sort of unpack that a bit?

SPEAKER_01 3:20

I yeah, and I'd firstly I just really want to acknowledge you, Dave, and say how much I appreciate your awareness around that because these kinds of issues and dynamics, male practitioner, you know, especially often with a female client, but also sometimes with male clients, um, that that has an impact, that has a role. And I think that is different often from the dynamics that we often see with with a female practitioner and a and a male client. And for me, when I hear you mention that, it creates a sense of safety and well-being within myself that you would be considering that as a practitioner and um and what your role might be. And I know that one of the things I I talked about in um, and I think it was the the third webinar, was how many of us men, women, um, our our non-binary friends have so unfortunately experienced unwanted touch at various times throughout their life. And and I spoke about the impacts that that can have on people and and obviously then the um the potential for those difficult and traumatizing feelings to to be triggered um in a situation where where someone is is touching.

SPEAKER_02 4:47

Yeah, I was astounded um watching the webinar that um there was a stat that you you quoted from Canada, I think, about how high the rate was where that has actually occurred. It was up around 50% or something.

SPEAKER_01 5:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:02

It was incredible, right?

SPEAKER_01 5:03

Yeah, yeah. It is. And and sadly, we know that for individuals who have experienced traumatic events and boundary violations like this, they are more likely to experience both physical and mental health impacts throughout their life. So unfortunately, it also means that they're going to be more likely to be seeking some kind of care and support for these ongoing health implications that that they'll have.

SPEAKER_02 5:30

Yeah, absolutely. And in respect to, I mean, can you can you offer some advice to a practitioner, just basically run through a scenario where um there might be an issue around that that boundary, if you like?

SPEAKER_01 5:46

Yeah. Um so, and and because you're you're the example in in front of me, um, Dave, so let's kind of talk through, um talk through an issue um that could arise for for someone. And and I also think it is really important to say that often these issues are hidden under the surface. And I know I talk about this in more detail in the webinar. They're under the surface. Sometimes we can't know that they're there as practitioners. I often don't, even as a counselor, until I've really developed safety and trust and have been talking, you know, in more depth with the client. But sometimes the clients themselves don't realize that something is there and might still be an issue for them. And sometimes it might not be until a kind of touch reminds them, reminds their subconscious of an experience that they had, or sometimes even that there's a particular person reminds them of something. Um, I've seen this play out in relationships where things have been really good in a relationship, and then a client's partner gets to the age that the person who touched them without consent was. And so all of a sudden, there can be a trigger around that because of the reminder. And so for someone like you to hold in mind that unconsciously you could be triggering memories of really, really unsafe situations for someone that might not have come up. You know, you might have been doing work with this person for a period of time, and then suddenly you stand in a particular way, you say something in particular, or there's just a certain kind of touch that then triggers this feeling of a lack of safety. And and, you know, and then um someone is very likely to go into a kind of a fight or flight, or even a kind of a frozen or dissociated state as some of those memories come rushing back, as the body doesn't know how to process everything um that has been going on for them.

SPEAKER_02 8:05

You know, it's it's great that you've touched on that and it's taken you know a couple of minutes of our time in the interview, but it's really important. And you really did unpack it very well in the in the full webinar. So for those that haven't seen um Zire's webinars, I really uh highly recommend that if you get a chance um for the the recordings to to check them out. Hey, the other point that we did want to um excuse me, touch on was about um knowing your place, the practitioner knowing their place in terms of um scope of practice and referring on. So that was just something else that I did want to bring up with you in the interview. So would you just sort of touch on that that topic a little?

SPEAKER_01 8:50

Yeah, I I think it's a good question because I can imagine that for a lot of practitioners as they are working on on clients and creating safety and you know, and and having chit-chat and helping clients release emotions and things from their body, that often even unwillingly, they're going to hear a lot of what is going on in in their clients' lives, that clients will share a lot that that hasn't necessarily been been invited. And and that can be a really tricky place, I imagine, for practitioners to know someone is sharing something, I want to support, I think I've got good advice, you know, they've they've opened up to me. And and so then there's a dilemma of how much do I share, you know, and and and how do I not kind of be rude to this person as well. And I think that is a a tricky, tricky line.

SPEAKER_02 9:46

Little type type rope that you've got to sort of walk to to be engaged, but not overstepping your mark as a practitioner in manual therapy. Um because we're not, or most of us are not qualified psychologists, for instance, so we can't really start unpacking issues, and that's why that referral situation is so important, right?

SPEAKER_01 10:09

Yeah, yeah. Look, and there's so much to be said for validating someone's experience, and you know, and I and we and we cover this off. You know, I've I've um been a lecturer in therapy and a trainer in therapy for quite a long time, and this is something that we're constantly kind of saying to um to our counseling students is hold back on giving that advice, hold back, even if you think you've got it, hold back on telling someone what they think, what you think they should do, because we really don't necessarily have the full picture of what's going on. And we also don't want to be creating a dynamic where someone is, you know, not being able to tune in to what they need themselves. So there is so much to be said for validating and saying that feels that feels really hard and that feels really tricky. And if you get the sense, I suppose, that someone is bringing a similar issue if they keep talking about their relationship, their partner, or something that they're really unhappy around, if something shows up repetitively or you feel like they're talking about something that that actually does kind of warrant someone who really knows what they're doing. I I think in those cases, you know, kind of gently letting someone know that this sounds really tricky and and and you're not an expert in this, but you do know of people that that are, people that are really trained in this. And so opening up that door and saying, you know what, it's really normal. This sounds really hard, it's really normal to struggle with things like this. Um, have you thought of of going to see someone who specializes in this? I've got a couple of people that I can recommend. And that can really take away any kind of shaming. Sometimes, you know, when we overshare, um, then we can feel like a bit vulnerable. And it's like, oh God, did I did I make the practitioner uncomfortable? Did they not want to hear me? Um, so we don't want to, we don't want to do that. We also don't want to kind of you know give the idea that like, well, you're a real problem here, like you're a bit broken. You need to go and you need to go and talk to someone. But we also do want to normalize that it's okay to get help. And it's actually really useful to speak to experts around this. And then by saying, you know, we know a couple of people, we can make that transition much easier and smoother for them. So it's been helpful.

SPEAKER_02 12:46

Being a great practitioner means, as you're saying, is to have maybe that network of people that you can refer out to, and you're not you're not formally triaging, but you are offering some maybe some recommendations that maybe what what they're talking about might be best suited to um this type of a therapist or whatever it might be, right?

SPEAKER_01 13:08

Absolutely. Because I think you know that's really the case for you know healthcare practitioners across the board, isn't it? You know, I certainly know that there might be things that someone is talking about that, okay, that might be a hormone issue, that might be a diet issue, that's probably something physical. And and so in my network, I know the pelvic floor physios that I want to recommend, the naturopaths, the dietitians, the doctors, the you know, the gynecologists that are going to support people. So I think for all of us, it's really important to have those safe people that we can refer to.

SPEAKER_02 13:42

Absolutely. Zara, it's a it's a short and sweet show. We we I'd love to uh continue chatting more about um the many topics that you covered over those three webinars, and um no doubt the association will get you back to do some more some more work on that and maybe some articles. But it's been really great chatting to you and just hopefully introducing you to to more of our members via the Connect show as well. Um, so yeah, so thanks so much for sharing some time with us today, and um, hopefully we'll get you back on the show.

SPEAKER_01 14:14

Great, thanks so much for having me, Dave.

SPEAKER_02 14:17

Okay, thanks. See everyone.