BSME Talks | Making the Move to Teach in the Middle East

In this episode of BSME Talks, host Debra Forsyth is joined by three teachers currently in the UK who are preparing for an exciting new chapter in the Middle East: Poppy Russo, who is joining British International School Jeddah after previously teaching in Singapore, Charlotte Lown, who is heading to Repton Al Barsha, and George Gardiner, who is making the move to Reach British School in Abu Dhabi.

Together, they share the stories behind their decisions to teach overseas, reflect on the interview process, and discuss what inspired them to take the leap. They also speak candidly about navigating uncertainty following the conflict in the Middle East earlier this year, how it affected their plans, and the reassurance and support provided by their new schools.

From document attestation and shipping furniture to relocating beloved cats, the trio reveal some of the practical challenges that come with an international move. With all of our guests also being parents, they discuss the added considerations they have had to make around uprooting their familiar family life.

Looking ahead, they talk about what excites them most: exploring new countries, embracing new experiences, learning from different people and perspectives, and even cycling around an F1 track.

Whether you're considering your own move overseas or simply curious about life beyond the UK classroom, this episode offers an honest, insightful and often humorous look at the realities of starting afresh in the Middle East.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:12

Hello and welcome to the latest episode of BSME Talks. I'm Deborah Forsythe, CEO of British Schools in the Middle East, the membership network that connects and supports British curriculum schools across the Middle East and North Africa. Every year, hundreds of teachers from the UK make a decision that most of their colleagues never will to pack up and move to a new job abroad. It's a decision that takes courage, curiosity, and if we're honest, a bit of a leap of faith. This episode is for anyone who might be considering that leap themselves. And for school leaders who might want to understand what it feels like to be on the other side of the recruitment process. Joining me for today's episode are three teachers who have made that decision and will be leaving the UK behind them in August to begin a new international chapter of their life working in the Middle East. Charlotte Lowen, Poppy Russo, and George Gardner, a very warm welcome to the three of you from BSME. It's wonderful to have you with us today and to share with us the start of your exciting journey to the Middle East. I'd like to kick off, if we can, please, by just asking each of you to introduce yourself, tell us a little bit about where you are and where you're going to. Poppy, would you like to kick us off?

SPEAKER_01 1:32

So my name is Poppy. I'm a primary school teacher. I currently work in um a school in East London, Bean County Primary School. I am moving to British International School of Jeddah. Yeah, really excited for it. Thanks very much, Poppy. Charlotte?

SPEAKER_02 1:48

Hi, I'm Charlotte, and I'm currently working in a secondary school as a drama teacher and head of year 11. I currently work in um a school in Portland, which is in Dorset, and I'm moving to Dubai to Repton Albasha.

SPEAKER_03 2:03

Ah, Portland, that's not too far from my mind. That's in. And George, tell us where you're coming from and where you're going to.

SPEAKER_00 2:09

Hi, I'm George. I'm a deputy headteacher or vice principal, sorry, in York in a primary school here. Um, and we are moving to Abu Dhabi to Reach British School, which is part of the ISP uh network, and we're really looking forward to the UAE in August.

SPEAKER_03 2:26

Thank you all very much. Now, I sort of want to talk about your journey. So I'm going to go right back to the beginning of your journey and want to sort of discuss with you a little bit about what prompted you to think about applying for a job in the Middle East. Do you know people who have worked here? Did somebody give you an idea? George, you're moving with family as well. So you're approaching your whole family. It's a significant decision for you to move from the UK. Tell us what made you first consider your first move into international education.

SPEAKER_00 2:56

Our decision has been quite a long time coming. So straight out of university, I had the ambition to move to Asia, not being able to just because of some family circumstances at the time. And then life happens, doesn't it? I began my teaching career, I was given lots of really good opportunities at work. I met my wife and we we started a family. And then about three three or so years ago, one of my wife's good friends moved back from Dubai and we were away with for a weekend with them. And uh my wife just turned around, Frankie, she turned around and said, I've always wanted to live abroad. And we had this sort of moment of how we're married, we've been together for years, and we've never discussed this. That's been one of my ambitions that I just thought would never happen. And I just started my current role at the time, so uh the timing was not very good, and we were just starting a family, like I say. So we we decided to park it and that we'd we'd revisit it. And then our our youngest child has just turned one, and nine months ago or so we decided that right, we'll start to look properly. Um, but the school, the place had to be right. We then landed then on the Middle East as a destination because we talked about our skill sets in terms of languages or lack of, uh, and then the opportunities to teach in British speaking or English-speaking British schools um was really strong in the Middle East, and then also we're we're really close to our parents and the idea of having a single flight rather than maybe two flights, and and the fact that the Middle East is a transport hub for traveling, all those reasons sort of made us think specifically about the Middle East. And then um, having visited it, we it was then a toss-up between Dubai and Abu Dhabi, basically. And and through visiting and speaking to a couple of schools, personal attraction of Abu Dhabi and the family ethos that I've uh we've felt there has been really strong. And then significantly, my conversation with the principal of Reach is someone who's heavily involved in BSME, Craig Holsaw, and then Nadia, who's the head of primary, those two conversations were pivotal as well. Really, really exciting leaders, and then they also shared their vision for me. And and I think that package of the deal for the family and the professional opportunities. I didn't expect them to sort of marry so well so early because it is it was literally the first school that I properly applied for, and it was too good to turn down. So in in February we said yes, and yeah, we're really excited. So I hope uh that's quite a detailed explanation, but it's it's been like that's great, and and really great that you know we were lucky the first time.

SPEAKER_03 5:14

Yeah, but it everything just fell into place for you. Wonderful. Thanks for sharing that. Now, Charlotte, is there a particular moment for you? Because you're also moving complete with family. Um, again, big decision for the whole family there. Was there a particular moment, conversation, chat with a colleague? What planted the seed of international education for you?

SPEAKER_02 5:34

Um, I think similar to George, things fell into place this time. Um, so we looked previously as well a couple of years ago. Conversation started with my husband, who is due to come out of the Navy fairly shortly. So his 23 years is about to come up, and he was looking for something new and exciting and said, Oh, well, what about teaching abroad? We've talked about it before, again, before children. And then, like George said, life happens. We started to have a look again, and I don't know why we didn't really push for it. He kind of got another job within the Navy that he quite liked and continued with that for a bit longer. Um, I got offered an assistant head at the school I'm currently at, so we kind of thought, okay, actually, we're quite happy here and things are going quite well. And then again, the conversation came up, and this time my husband really is leaving the Navy. And I said, Oh, I don't know, you said that before, you know, the girls are settled now because my eldest daughter has started secondary school. So I was kind of on the back foot, maybe not. And then my cousin, who works at Repton, gave me a call and said there is a drama teacher job going at my school. And I thought, Oh, well, if there ever was going to be a time, that would be quite nice. So I went for the interview and I said to my husband, you know, it has to feel right though, because we're moving our children, that's a big deal. And it did feel right. This was around February time, said yes to that job and kind of really not looked back. We're really quite excited now and really just looking forward to to getting out there.

SPEAKER_03 7:10

And nice that you've got family here as well, so you've got some some connection to move towards.

SPEAKER_02 7:14

Yeah, and maybe I've got to be honest, maybe that was the the thing that helped me this time round, as opposed to last time. And my children are old enough to have their own opinions, and so everyone has a voice. And we're sat around the having conversations around the dinner table, and they're they're both really quite excited about the opportunities that that it lends as well, you know. Like George said, being in the middle of the world, the opportunity to travel, and it's just a flight home. So they know that they will return home for holidays and things, but actually, the opportunities that it lends itself and the education, the quality of education out there for them, as well as for me as a teacher, is is going to be superb. So we're all very excited.

SPEAKER_03 7:57

Great experiences for the whole family.

SPEAKER_02 7:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 8:00

Um, and Poppy, you've actually worked abroad before, so you've worked in the Far East before, obviously gone back to the UK. What prompted you? What made you think this time about moving to the Middle East?

SPEAKER_01 8:11

Well, we loved our time um in Singapore. We had the best time and it was just an amazing experience. Um, and we got to really do things that you know we've never been able to do before, you know, trying different things um in both in our professional environment and also in our personal life. And we only moved back to the UK because of COVID. So, I mean, if that hadn't happened, we we possibly might still be out. Then we had our first child here, and I don't know, timings just felt really right. I had friends who were teaching in Saudi, um, and I'd kept in contact with them, and um, there'd just been a change in leadership at the school, and so they were really, really keen to kind of you know get us out there. Yeah, it was kind of them persuading us, um, and us kind of thinking, you know, my son was one, you know, we want to go back out. You know, it was all it kind of all aligned in the sense that my friends were really keen to get us over and we were just kind of feeling a bit ready to go back out. We always knew when we came back from Singapore, we always knew we wanted to go back out and teach abroad again. Because I think I think you'll find Deborah, I'm sure you'll find that once people go, I think once you've had a taste, you you know, it's amazing travelling and the schools that you'll work out are just incredible. And yeah, I think it was always we always knew we wanted to come back out, and so yeah, this the timing really aligned really in with our friends trying to get us out, and so yeah, that's that's how we ended up out again.

SPEAKER_03 9:39

Yeah, you're absolutely right there, Poppy. I think I think the Middle East is full of people who came out for two years and are still here.

SPEAKER_04 9:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 9:46

23 years for myself later. So yeah, I think it it it it does it does catch you, and I think you it can it becomes then a way of life, and it it I think it's interesting all of you talking about sort of new experiences, different experiences that you just wouldn't have at home. And I think for you and when you're when you're travelling with children, that really different experiences that it can offer for them as well. But and interesting that we've got some not really snap decisions here then. So actually these these have been quite long journeys if we go back to when you uh you were perhaps first thinking about um moving abroad. So interesting then. Moving on now, and and I'm going to address the elephant in the room. Obviously, over the last few months the Middle East has been in the headlines for all of the wrong reasons. We've had a little bit of a war going on, and we are hopefully this far from the signing of a peace agreement in a couple of days, and we hope we'll be able to move all put that all behind us. But I'm guessing at just about the point when you guys were being interviewed and offered jobs and making decisions, we were probably still very much in the midst of this. Um, let's start with you, Poppy, this time. I'm gonna ask you honestly, did it give you pause for thought? Did it make you go, oh maybe not?

SPEAKER_01 10:57

So we actually got our jobs ages. I think we were we got our jobs in October, November, quite early. Yeah, they were very keen. And um, and we met Helen, who is the director of school, and she is um she we actually met her in London, and that was amazing. And literally, I think like two weeks later, everything kicked off. But um, the school, I will say, and I'm sure that Charlotte and George will say the same, have been amazing at putting everything, all of our, you know, everything to rest in terms of great communication. They did lots of talks with us, and I said we've got friends out there who immediately I, you know, I was on the phone going, Oh, yeah, you guys okay? Is everything fine? And they were like, you know, everything, everything in Jeddah, I think they had like one or two days of home learning, and then it all kind of went back to normal. So um, and and where we're going, Jeddah has been quite, it seems to have been quite like everything seems to be working as normal. So um, yeah, we've just been really assured from that. But I will, as I said, I will say, um, not only my friends, but the school have genuinely been really, really good and really supportive and there for any questions that we've had. But yeah, it was um it was definitely a spatter in the works, and I think it happened. I honestly think we told our families after Christmas, and then I think five days later it everything kicked off, and they were all like, hold on, um, surely, surely that's affected it. But no, it's been we've been very, you know, assured by the school and by friends. We've been we've been really great in that respect.

SPEAKER_03 12:25

Okay, and Charlotte, did did you, when it all kicked off, as we say, um, did you seek out information yourself on what things were like on the ground? Uh, did you wait to hear from the school? What was the scenario for you?

SPEAKER_02 12:38

I I kind of waited to be honest. I didn't I didn't go into huge panic, which is quite unlike me actually, but I think it did help that I've got my cousin is out there. So she was able to reassure me because the family group chat kicked off. They were all trying to get her to come home. And you know, I was thinking, oh, I better not tell them what I'm about to do. And there was probably a moment where I thought, okay, because of all the things I'm hearing and what my family are saying, is this sensible? Am I hang on a minute, just take a little bit of a moment and think, I'm really excited about this job, but is it the right thing for my family? And I had to have a little pause. But I think my husband's profession, he was able to put my mind at ease a bit. And then my cousin would send me videos and messages and say, you know, is business as you've done on the beach. She was on a beach. She uh I think at one point she sent it to the family group chat and did like a little whip round and went, Life is as normal, please, everyone, stand down, everything is fine. Um, you know, this is okay, touch wood. But I think again, communication with the school. If I have had any questions, I've emailed. They've I've not been made to feel silly or anything, you know. Communication's been straight back. And yeah, I think a few days of home learning. But actually, the fact that they did home learning for the safety of the students and the staff, that again reassured me that it they were proactive at responding to their needs, and that also reassured me that it that they're taking care of their staff and their students and the well-being of the community. So I felt pretty reassured by that as well.

SPEAKER_03 14:17

Okay, that's great. George, we're we are family panicking and saying, What are you doing?

SPEAKER_00 14:23

It's funny just to hear the timing that Poppy and Charlotte you just said, because we had this similar thing where um I think my job offer was early February, and then I'd handed my notice in because I'd I wanted to help my current school recruit. Obviously, notice periods are quite long for deputy headship, so just making sure wanting to do the right thing by them, and then uh I I know it was at the end of February that uh the everything began. So it was that, yes, this this we've got this amazing, exciting news, and then a few straight away I was getting texts saying, you know, what are you doing? It is really interesting to hear what you're both saying because we I don't think naturally that I'm someone who holds their nerve as an immediate that it wouldn't necessarily be something that comes naturally, it's something I have had to work on. And my wife and I talked quite a lot about holding our nerve in terms of not making snap decisions, and and the first 24 hours we were a little bit worried, and then when we started to try and talk about what we were actually worried about, we realized that I was worried that I'd handed my notice in and that then suddenly we didn't know what was going on, and began to then realize that actually we're only worried because we're uh root not ruminating but starting to think catastrophizing about something that we dreamt about very quickly in the space of 24 hours. Realised that there's the there was actually nothing to worry about in that moment because if if if things got worse and it was a really awful situation, which thankfully it hasn't turned out to be in in the UAE where we're moving, then we wouldn't be able to move. So that decision would be taken out of our hand. And we actually felt really pleased that we'd handed our notices in at work because it meant that there wasn't the ability to suddenly panic, or that decision was done, and that allowed us to just have a bit of space. So for the whole of March, we basically just said we weren't worrying about it, and that from a decision point of view, we just needed to wait and see. And having that space to say that was quite empowering because it meant that we were then able to give that as a stock answer to the hundreds of people that ask questions constantly, and you get sick of it. I imagine Charlotte and Poppy might have had that. We're like, Are you still going? Are you still just go away? Um, and then, like these two have both said, I've had just some really good conversations with the leadership team at the school, and similar to what you said, one of my colleagues, Joe, is an avid golfer and he's sending me pictures of himself golfing. And I've got a really good friend who lives in Dubai with her family, and we'd we've spoken to them. And I think in time, those conversations just relaxed our fears, and then we were spoken to our dads quite a lot. Who we value their opinions, and they they were really sensible, and it meant that no one panicked, and then our confidence just grew and grew from that first sort of two days of worry, and then yeah, we're we're now at the point where we're just really excited again. So it's it's fascinating how that initial 24 hours of worry quickly moved to a space where we were we were less panicky and actually took stock of what was going on. And and I know we've talked about that in WhatsApp groups, but certainly ignoring social media helped, and speaking to people who are actually living in Abu Dhabi was just a completely different story.

SPEAKER_03 17:24

Yeah, okay. Charlotte, you taking the cat with you?

SPEAKER_02 17:26

It's my eldest daughter's greatest love. Oh cat has to come.

SPEAKER_03 17:32

That has to come. Good, I'm glad to hear it. Uh yeah, really um great there to hear that you got reassurance, not just from your schools, but also from people that you knew on the ground. Yeah, and there is no doubt that that I think the UK media was not really terribly helpful. They like to dramatise things, I guess. That's where that's where the news story gets exciting. So and I'm really pleased that you're you're all now feeling really positive about coming out. Um, and actually, I think schools generally in the region have been um quite pleased that that there doesn't seem to have been a great sort of, you know, when people have been offered jobs, it's not a case of all like everybody's just decided they're not coming. There's maybe been one or two people who've said, oh no, I've changed my mind, but generally people who had already accepted jobs are still coming and uh looking forward to a fresh start. So that's very exciting. I wanted now to talk a little bit about the schools that you've applied to and and sort of that recruitment process. So for school leaders listening, this is where you need to get your ears open and get an idea of what it feels like to be on the other side of the recruitment process. Let's start with Charlotte. Was there something specific about the school that maybe responsive with the school or something you learnt about the school that made you feel this this is the right role for me, this is where I want to go. You you've got a contact there, which I guess helps.

SPEAKER_02 18:48

Yes, that did help. But the school itself, I did a lot of reading first of all, because as much as my cousin I I love her, um, you know, she's not enough for me to move my entire family and it not be right. So I did a lot of reading and looked at the school and the school's values because obviously not only am I going to be teaching there, but my children are gonna go to school there. So for me, Repton has high aspirations for their children, and there is a it's it's about the high standards of education, but also kind of for the children as whole people and the enrichment side of life as well, and that stood out. I also liked they use the word accountable in their in their writing, and um, you know, I try and say that at my current school, I think today it's a controversial thing to say, but about children in the UK at the moment, I feel make excuses all of the time and keep lowering the bar, and I'm wanting to aim up here, and parents make excuses, children make excuses, and I don't want to work in an environment like that. I want to work in an environment where we're aspiring to great things, and Repton gave me the impression that that's what that's what is going to be there. And so for me, I want to work in a place where I can aim high with the children I'm working with, but also for my children to go to school and want to aim high. And I went to I had an interview with Repton for a head of year eight role, and um I got that job as well, so I was really excited to be head of year eight, and I asked about you know what what's the key thing to be working with this year group? What's my main thing that I need to be working with? And and they said opportunities, opportunities, and I thought, what a great answer. You know, it wasn't behaviour, it's not attendance, it's not any of those things, it's opportunities. And I thought, yes, that's that's what I'm talking about. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:41

What an opportunity, yes, yes. Thanks very much. Now, Poppy, you talked about um meeting your principal in the UK, and and obviously I'm guessing you you've you felt you made some connection there. Um, what about the school in Jeddah particularly uh appeal to you?

SPEAKER_01 20:57

Well, as a my so I've got a friend who works at the school, and she was just talking about all of the really cool things that they're they're doing. So they've implemented um like they're doing a new timetable, what they're trying to bring um the enrichment into the school day. And Helen, as you know, Helen is always amazing at trying, she wants to try lots of new things, and that's what I mean. Like Charlotte was saying, that's what I love about education. You know, we love we love being able to, you know, roll out new initiatives um and give things a go. And I think that that's something that we, me and my husband, both teachers, we really um want to get stuck back into, you know, be not being afraid, not being, I think like Charlotte was saying, there's a lot when you work in the UK, particularly in the state education system, there are a lot of things that you're constantly, you know. I work in a primary school, I'm a year six teacher, you know, we've got SATs, we've got moderation, we've got there's loads of things that can sometimes feel like it narrows your, you know, it can narrow your perspective and curriculum. Um whereas when we worked abroad, you know, we got to trial like we did eco farming. In school, we built mini biomes when we were abroad in Singapore, mini biomes, and like we did some really, really cool things, and that's what that's what Helen wants to bring to BISJ, and that's what she's bringing, and that's what we want to do. Um, and so yeah, like Charlotte was saying, opportunities, opportunities to do things that you you wouldn't necessarily get to do in the UK. And I think when when you've been out of the UK British schooling system, and you don't, you know, you don't have the the constraints that can be here sometimes, it is it's fun. Like we had so much fun teaching, and that's and like the children love it, they love school. You never get like I've never heard when I was in Singapore child saying they didn't want to come to school, they didn't they love school, like school is a great place. I mean, school is great here in the UK as well, don't get me wrong. It's a really different way of teaching, and that's what Helen wants to champion. And I it's you know, it's change is difficult, it's hard, but yeah, we're all for it, and that's what you know, that's what we really we really want to do when we come to Jeddo.

SPEAKER_03 23:02

I can hear lots of excitement coming through there. That's great. George, you've already spoken about Craig and oh, I've forgotten what was the name of the head of primary.

SPEAKER_00 23:11

Nadia.

SPEAKER_03 23:12

Nadia, that's right. Um, so you obviously felt a connection there, and you felt that there were there were leaders that you would want to work with. Uh, was there anything else particularly about Reach School that made you think that it was the right place for you and your family?

SPEAKER_00 23:26

The two elements to just build on the point about Craig and Nadia. So they were uh my discussion with Craig was the sort of the final point of the interview process, and the the sort of three or four people I met before him, every single one of the conversations was was just easy in in terms of the connection and the feeling, even though a lot of it was obviously over Zoom or similar. That struck me as it's always just been a priority for me that that relationship between the people that you work closely with. So that was really that felt really easy. And then when I spoke to Nadia specifically, she talked me through because she she's only been in the school since last summer. From what I understand, Craig has been at school for about five years or so, and I think they've they've been on quite an exciting trajectory in that time. And Nadia's, I guess, her leadership within the primary school is the next step of that, and then I'm going to be able to contribute. And having been part of schools in the UK that either have been established or have needed a lot of work, I think, if I'm being honest, I've enjoyed the the schools where you get to go on that journey. And I'm not a massive fan of the word journey, but I've just used it, so I'm a bit of a hypocrite.

SPEAKER_03 24:32

I think I've said it four times.

SPEAKER_00 24:35

I can't think of a better one than journey. But either way, what the the direction of travel for the school feels exciting, and it and when Nadia explained about her vision for the next steps, I just was surprised, genuinely taken aback by how immediately I thought, right, I know what I think about this, and I know how these ideas or this experience could fit in, or that I'm excited to learn this element. And specifically, we talked similarly to what Poppy just said about our curriculum, because I have my personal ethos is about exciting, engaging, and enriching curriculum. And when we had our discussion about the specifics, because my role is going to be teaching and learning lead with it as a deputy head chief, I just completely got on board with what she was saying. And then the the the other part of it is the development of people within the team, and that to me was really appealing. So, whether it be sort of uh MPQH opportunities or the BSO um opportunities that might come around, the the just it just screamed opportunity at every level, and and I was really excited by that basically.

SPEAKER_03 25:36

So, certainly from that last question, opportunity and excitement are coming through really, really strongly. And I think that really is a I would say a fair reflection of education in the region. I do think it's a really exciting place. There's a real sense of innovation, uh, wanting to really be cutting edge with with trying new things, quite quite a brave approach and lots of risk taking in all the right ways. So, yeah, I I I would I would absolutely say that that resonates, and that's very much what I feel about education in the region, that it's a really exciting place to be. Let's get back to you guys now. We've talked about your schools, let's get back to you guys and and a bit more of your journey. Sorry, George. Uh um and the practical side of things. So you're you're coming to the end of your school year in the UK, and then there's going to be the practical bits of that whole big move. And then I guess you're getting here probably mid-August-ish to settle in and get ready to start for the new role. So I want us to think a little bit now about maybe what aspects of that move you're looking forward. No, let's not do the looking forward. We'll come back to that. What aspects of that are maybe being a little bit of a challenge, or the bits that you think could be most challenging when you get there. Uh, and I mean that could be if you're absolutely hate packing up your house, it could be packing up your house. Uh, new cultures, perhaps, new language, although George, as you quite rightly said, it's very much English speaking, so you're not gonna have to speak Arabic on day one. But in terms of the practical aspects, um Charlie, it might be your cat actually. In terms of the practical aspects of your move, Poppy, what what what for you do you think is gonna be something that you're really gonna have to get your get your teeth into?

SPEAKER_01 27:19

I mean, I'm sure Charlotte and George, if you're taking any pets, I mean, when we we rescued, we've got two cats, and we rescued our cats in Singapore and took that was probably the most stressed, and I've given birth, probably the most stressful experience of my life, was trying to take these two beautiful cats that we'd rescued back to England during the pandemic. It was honestly hell on earth. Um, and reliving it again, although it is well, I will say it was a lot, it's a lot, it's been a lot more straightforward this time round. I mean, even though with everything going on the region, and the company that we're using, Expat Logistics, had been really, really great. But yeah, that is that is stressful. Um, love my cats dearly. We would we wouldn't be leaving without them, but it is like we're they're on such a tight vaccine schedule, and you know, all of that. I mean, taking your belongings, we're not we're actually not taking that many belongings. I don't we're not taking anything, we're being brave, we're just rocking up with suitcases, which is what we did when we were 25. And I'm not sure, I'm not sure if this is a smart move uh now with a two-year-old, but we're gonna we're gonna do it and find out, everybody. But yeah, also the visa process. I will say that when we moved to Singapore, I mean it was easy breezy lemon squeezy. I and I remember thinking at that time, gosh, this is stressful. And I and I didn't have any new and nowhere near the stress levels that I've had the visa process this time around. It is rigorous moving to Saudi. Um, and that has probably been stressful, making sure all your documents line up. Um, my husband has spelt his middle name wrong on probably every document he's ever owned in his life. Um, and that has been so stressful. Um, and I don't know if that is just a Saudi thing. I don't know if that is across the Middle East, whether this is this is an issue. Not an issue, but it is something that you need to take into consideration. So I will say to anyone who's listening, um, uh documents, get them all in check, get them all done, your transcripts, birth certificate, everything you could possibly marriage certificate you can think of, they will need to see um and get sorted. So that has been that has been long and stressful, but I mean it's all worth it in the end because you know, we're gonna get to do an amazing thing um and you know take our cats with us. But yeah, it's it is been it it's also having a child is and doing it with children um is stressful. So I look back at 25-year-old me and I think, gosh, what an easy time I had of it when I moved to Singapore. So you were born, huh? Honestly. But yeah, it's it's all worth it. I think it's stressful now, but once you're kind of settled in and you know it it you'll look back and think, I'm glad that we we did all of this.

SPEAKER_03 30:00

So cats and visas, and yeah, you're right, the documents, the paperwork I'd say across the whole region. That's not a savvy thing. It's okay. Yeah, you need your documents everywhere. What about you, Charlotte?

SPEAKER_02 30:09

Then well, I was nodding along to the cat information, but actually I've offloaded all of that to my husband. So I I don't know any of the process. So I'm nodding like, yes, I know your pain. But yes, the documentation that was a little bit stressful. Just you know, you think you know where everything is until you need it, and then you go, Oh, well, I haven't seen that for a while. Um, so you know, be organized and do that within plenty of time. We got married in Mexico, and so we had that translated at the time, but it that's gonna take longer. Our marriage certificate's actually going to take longer to get sorted because of that. So I hadn't even that hadn't crossed my mind. But for me, it will be the packing because I have a lot of stuff, and we are gonna turn up pretty much just with suitcases, too. And I'm packing and I think I've made good progress. And I turn around and look in the cupboard and I think, oh there's still so much in there. So that's it's gonna take a long time because you know, alongside that, you're still doing your day job and you're still looking after the children and running the house. So there's a lot to be done, but it will like like Poppy said, it will be worth it.

SPEAKER_03 31:20

All worth it, yeah. And what's stressing you out, George?

SPEAKER_00 31:24

So I I feel calm at the moment, but what I would say is that last half term, similar to what these two have said, with despite work being busy, the attestation of documents uh uh was causing me uh to slightly lose the plot, but uh and I was trying to be proud and do it myself, and I I've ended up using the agents that the uh school have recommended just because I needed someone else to worry about it in the end. Yeah, taking that on the chin. We we had documents, but uh there's it's so specific, isn't it, about getting them all all your ducks in a in a line. So that's that that was um a stress. I think I've on the language point, I've downloaded Duolingo and my is terrible after 110 days. I've learned I know how to say, is it I think uh I know how to say I'm George and I'm from York, and beyond that, I'm really struggling.

SPEAKER_03 32:12

Oh and then you can tell us that I'm a George and I'm in York.

SPEAKER_00 32:16

I think that's right. That'll do exactly like I said, terrible. So progress is slow. Um, I think so. Things it's really interesting to hear you both say that you're not taking we we've decided not to take loads either, and that's been recommended through various people, and it's made sense. Uh and we we're people who I think we enjoy having nice things in our house, but we've we've it's made us realise actually what's important, and we've we've shipped some things last week, and the things that we've shipped are the children's favourite toys, photos, and things to make. So we will we're going to begin living in an apartment um that the school's provided, and I know that's quite usual, isn't it, for accommodation to be provided. And we've decided that because we'll have sofas and beds and all the stuff, actually, how are we going to make it feel homely? And it's it's just really interesting through that process because we started with this long list of this is all gonna get shipped, and it just became smaller and smaller and smaller, and we feel quite good about that now. So that's and it's just a reminder of what's important. We're doing this because Frankie and I want to go on an adventure together and we want to take our kids together, so we don't need whatever things we we might take, we just need the the bare essentials. But the thing the thing that I think now we are most that is most on our mind, we've booked our flights and we've booked in all the goodbye-dos. So we're going out with Frankie's girls and their husbands, we're going out with some of my mates and their wives, and and then we've started talking to our dads about how I'm gonna go out with my dad and my stepmom for dinner, and we and they're the bits where you're like, ooh, that's quite they're the bits that are gonna be nerve-wracking, I think, saying goodbye, saying goodbye. Um, and they they're beginning to feel quite real. So the stress seems to have gone, and it's more like the mixture of excitement and a little bit of, oh, it's quite real now.

SPEAKER_03 34:03

Yeah. You're really interesting there that you were you're talking about how um that that decision about what to take with you and what to leave really has clarified priorities for you. That's a really interesting take, yeah. And of course, yes, the goodbyes are sad, but I think you need to start planning now. They've probably already started, actually. Your family have probably already started planning their first holiday. So you can start looking forward to that right away. Um, so we've we've talked there about what's stressing you out. So I I'd like to look at the opposite side now. And you you've all spoken really positively about why you think you know the region's going to be a great place to be and the opportunities that you're looking forward to. So I'm gonna, what are you what are you most excited about? What are you really looking forward to? And you can't wait to get here so you can do what is it for you, Poppy?

SPEAKER_01 34:48

Oh, where to start? Um other than other than starting the school, which I'm really, really excited about. Um, I'm also starting as maths um lead for the primary school, um, which I'm really excited about. Yeah, I love middle leadership. And I like George said, it something I really love. One of the things I've been really passionate about is training teachers and stuff like that. So I'm looking forward to, I'm so sorry, my cat's about to come into the shop. Oh no! He saw Charlotte's cat and he thought, right, hold on. I want to get in on the action. Yeah, yeah. Um, so yeah, excited about that, excited about that new role. Um, and then just excited, I'm really excited to explore Saudi. Like Saudi is really coming on the scene when it comes to tourism and um some really amazing places. Like, we really want to go to Al Ula and the desert. I mean, I am a lover of luxury, so they've got some amazing luxury resorts like up in the Red Sea that have just opened. So, yeah, I'm really I'm really excited to travel again. We haven't travelled, I mean, m at all really since having a child. So, um, but I'm really excited about exploring Saudi and obviously the Middle East. I've never been to the Middle East before, so except excited to explore the region, but really I'm truly excited to explore Saudi. I think there's so much it has to offer. I think it's quite, I mean, I could be saying this and maybe I could be wrong, but I think it's quite undiscovered, and so I'm really looking forward to kind of like going to places, you know, and and kind of you know, broadening my horizons with it. Excellent.

SPEAKER_03 36:15

George, what about you? What are you looking forward to?

SPEAKER_00 36:17

I think we've I've spoken about the school elements, but I'm excited. I've met a couple of the team beyond my immediate senior leadership team that I'll be working with this week, and that's quite nice to begin to put um faces to names. And the thing that feels strange with some of the people I've spoken to a few times is that because I've text them like every other day, although three or four of them I've never met, when I see them in August, it's going to feel like meeting up with friends or old friends, and that so I'm quite looking forward to meeting these people that haven't already in real life. So that's um exciting. In terms of the family stuff, I'm I'm really I've got this image in my head about finishing work and then being able to head to the beach or to the park with the children, and then we we were talking about on a Friday afternoon or on a Saturday, being able to do just exciting days out and go down to the beach and enjoy the weather. They're they're the I think the family time outdoors because we we love summer in the UK for all four days of it. Uh, and even you know, even at the weekend, we just when it was a bit nicer and warmer, we had such a good day on Sunday, and I was thinking, it's actually actually how many of these days do we get in the year? Nowhere near enough. So very excited for the weather. Um, and then the the really selfish thing that I discovered last week that I didn't know is we're we're 15 minutes from the F1 circuit.

SPEAKER_04 37:31

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_00 37:32

Apparently, you can take your bike and cycle round. So I ended up last minute shipping my pushbike. I've got a racing bike. I was like, I'm I didn't think I was going to take it, and then someone said every Sunday, apparently, you can go and cycle around it. So I will be doing that on a Sunday, which feels quite exciting. And I've said the word exciting too many times today, but I haven't.

SPEAKER_03 37:51

That's lots of really interesting different things that people are looking forward to there. Charlotte, did I ask you already about your no, I didn't, did I?

SPEAKER_02 38:00

No, but very very similar, really. You know, like like George and his family, we like being outdoors, and yes, George, it is starting to feel like the summer is going to be four days long. So I think the warm weather and being able to have some time together outside exploring. Um, I'm really excited to work with new people and meet new people. I've worked in my current community for 21 years, um, so it's going to be very sad to say goodbye to everybody, but I'm really excited to work with new people and have new ideas. I'm really looking forward to that. And I'm normally quite shy, so that's quite of a strange feeling for me to really actually be looking forward to that. Um, and I'm looking forward to sharing new experiences traveling with my children.

SPEAKER_03 38:45

Lovely.

SPEAKER_02 38:46

Lovely.

SPEAKER_03 38:46

Well, thank you all very much for that. Now we've finished all of our questions about you moving. Um, I don't know if you've listened to the podcast at all before, but we always finish with the same question. We know that the influence of teachers can be beyond our imagination at times, um, that far-reaching ripple effect. So I'd like each of you to think about a teacher that you have had as a child yourself, who has had an impact on you and why that teacher is why they had that impact, why they've they've made a difference to you. I'll let you go in your own order because some people might need a bit more thinking time than others. Who wants to volunteer to go first?

SPEAKER_02 39:26

I have thought about this question and I couldn't choose between two.

SPEAKER_04 39:30

So I have a supplementary for sure.

SPEAKER_02 39:33

Yeah. Um, my drama teacher in year seven, Miss Davies, and my art teacher in year seven, Miss Perrott. And they were both quite quirky in their own ways. And I was a very shy, quiet girl, and I didn't really know what I wanted to do or what I didn't really even really know if I liked anything other than reading. So I was didn't really like any other lessons. And they were both so passionate about their subjects and so friendly and kind that I have remembered them always, and probably that's why I wanted to be a drama teacher initially because she made me feel so safe and happy in her room.

SPEAKER_03 40:12

That's lovely, and and clearly inspiring because here you are teaching drama. George Poppy, who's going next?

SPEAKER_01 40:19

Um, I'll go next. I um had an amazing history teacher when I was in secondary school um called Dr. Bradshaw. He was quirky to say the least. He loved incorporating like drama um into history, and this was uh he would write scripts for us with different characters. Like so when we were doing the Russian oligarchs, and he wrote this was before chat GPT. So this man was sat there writing his own scripts um to kind of bring the history to life. Like one time I remember walking in in year nine, and he was sat, I mean you wouldn't be able to do this now with health and safety, but he was sat on a chair on a table dressed as the Pope, and we we had to come in and pretend kiss his ring. Um he was a mate, he was honestly such a character. Um, but he really inspired a love of history. Um, and history is one of my favourite subjects. I then went on to study it at degree level. Um, and he was, but he was also like, he balanced fun whilst also having extremely high um academic standards. So like we would have all the fun lessons where he brought history to life, but we'd also have the lessons where we would take scrupulous notes and he would be, you know, rapidly writing. I think back on it now, I don't know how he did it with the stamina, writing furious notes on the whiteboard, you know, and trying to you know get us to engage and we're you know copying it down again before digital tech, everybody um when you did everything by hand. So yeah, I mean he really inspired a love of history. Um, and I said I went on to study it as my degree, and it's something I'm really, really passionate about now. So um, and I've been history leaders in primary schools, and yeah, so I think he was really good at balancing the fun but also really high academic standards, and that's always really stayed with me. Lovely. George, tell us your teacher of impact.

SPEAKER_00 42:04

The so that it's interesting that the people who I remember the most, the some uh the my youth leading, like the youth leaders when I was younger, they had the biggest impact on me, I think. And they're just really inspirational people. Where you know you talked about risk earlier. Yeah, I think I'm quite naturally risk-averse, and but I'm always uh drawn to people who take risks. And I think I wish I was a bit braver sometimes like them. Uh, but I know then I'm brave in other ways, but that was a big thing. The the this the tea the three teachers I had in mind, I won't I won't go into detail about each one, but the theme one is from primary school, one is from secondary, and one is from one of my A-level teachers, and when I was thinking about them, it it was really um it's the same value that they have, so they all made me feel really safe, and their relationship was really important to me, and then they were really good at encouraging the thing I was interested in. So the in primary school I loved maths, and my teacher was amazing at giving me maths opportunities. Similarly, a drama teacher at secondary school who gave us amazing opportunities, and then my history teacher at A-level uh just they're doing it's the right person with the right relationship at the right time for me, and they those three I always remember really fondly.

SPEAKER_03 43:15

Do you want to name your teachers, George?

SPEAKER_00 43:18

Yes, uh so Mrs. Weatherall was my primary school teacher who I ended up teaching me for sort of three years, and then Mrs. Grace, who was my form teacher and my um my drama teacher, and then a guy called Adam. We called them by their first name at A-level, and it was a guy called Adam who whose surname I can't remember. And I feel awful, but he's called Adam and he was amazing.

SPEAKER_03 43:37

Well, thank you very much. And and we talk about the ripple effect and that you can't you as when you're in the moment when you're teaching, you can't imagine what that's going to look like. And I think looking at how that impact has has influenced what you've gone on to study and what you've gone on to teach, I think is a really good example of just how far-reaching that impact can be. And I'm sure that you will be having equally impactful um time with your students in your new schools when you when you arrive in the Middle East. To anyone who's listening that is thinking about moving to the Middle East, hopefully you've been inspired by by Poppy and Charlotte and George to maybe give it a good think. If you're looking for openings, uh the BSME website has got a jobs board and there are still some vacancies there for September, uh, August, September. Um, so if if you're you're keen for a short minute decision, then take a look at that. If you've already, like our three wonderful guests here, decided to make the move and you're arriving in August, be sure to engage with BSME when you get here. We help all new teachers to network across the region, uh, to connect with people from other schools, to share your good practice and just to really engage in professional dialogue. And there's lots of opportunities for all sorts of action research and lots of stuff going on. Uh, so do be sure if you're moving to the Middle East, that you check out BSME website and you find out what benefits are available for you, your school, your students when you actually arrive. So, just then remains for me to thank the three of you, Poppy, Charlotte, George, thank you very much for giving up time this evening to come and have a chat with us. And I'm really excited about meeting you in person when you get here. I'll make a point of actually coming to visit you in your schools. And who knows, maybe we'll do another session sometime, maybe half term or something, um, to see how things are going, uh, what what's been exactly as you expected, and perhaps what's been different. Thank you very much for your time. I really appreciate it talking to you. Take care, guys.