A podcast led by Becky Wall BEM who is the co-owner of the Loo Of The Year Awards. The Awards have a history going back almost 40 years and it involves nominees being assessed via an independent inspection of their site. The Awards cover any premises offering out-of-home washrooms across the UK, Northern Ireland and Ireland. The podcast will share the stories of those who work within the facilities management sector and those who value being able to use excellent toilet facilities.
Fresh Thinking: Mark Wintle on Fragrance, Perception and Washrooms
•Becky and Charles Wall
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In this episode of The Bog Cast, Becky is joined by Mark Wintle, Brand Manager at P-Wave, to talk about fragrance, washroom standards, innovation, health awareness and why the washroom experience can have a much bigger impact than we might realise.
The Power of Fragrance
Mark explains how P-Wave helps make washrooms smell better through fragrance products and urinal mats, and why scent can influence how people perceive cleanliness.
While fragrance can make a significant difference, Mark is honest about what it can and cannot solve. If an underlying problem will not be resolved by fragrance, he is happy to point customers towards other companies who can help.
So, what is the most popular P-Wave fragrance? Becky and Mark explore why this fragrance has proved so popular, while discussing how personal fragrance preferences can be and how tastes change with the seasons. P-Wave's Spiced Apple fragrance, for example, sees a rise in popularity before Christmas before sales settle again in the New Year.
Scent, Branding and the Washroom Experience
The conversation explores how important scent has become to brands and customer experience. Mark uses the example of hotel chains using the same signature fragrance across properties around the world, creating a familiar experience wherever customers visit.
Becky and Mark discuss how washrooms are often the first and last places people visit at a venue, attraction, town or even a garage. Mark explains how improving the washroom environment, including its smell, can influence how people feel about a whole business.
For P-Wave, it is not simply about making a washroom smell nice, but helping businesses understand what their washrooms are saying about them.
Why P-Wave and Loo of the Year Awards Work Together
Mark explains why P-Wave feels closely aligned with Loo of the Year Awards, sharing a passion for improving washrooms and raising standards.
He talks about the credibility that comes from independent inspections and the importance of recognising businesses that are working to improve their washrooms.
Washrooms, Health and Well-being
Mark talks about how COVID helped raise awareness of cleaning and hygiene, and why he believes this focus is continuing through better training, apprenticeships and education.
He also discusses P-Wave's work with the NHS to raise awareness of bladder cancer. P-Wave introduced the message “Blood in your pee? Contact your GP practice” onto its urinal mats.
An initial survey of 2,000 men found that 46% did not realise that blood in their urine could be a sign of cancer. Around two million urinal mats carrying the awareness message have since been placed in washrooms.
Mark explains how a simple message in a urinal can provide a valuable nudge to someone who might otherwise have ignored a potential warning sign.
Education, Children and Madley Primary School
Becky and Mark discuss their work together at Madley Primary School, including their shared passion for sustainability, education and giving children ownership of their environment.
The children have been involved in looking after their school and encouraging other pupils to take pride in their surroundings. There is also time to discuss their favourite fragrances, with mango proving popular!
Mark shares Becky's belief that education can help prevent anti-social behaviour and teach respect for shared facilities. They explore how the work at Madley could potentially become part of a wider programme.
Sustainability, Science and Slow-Release Fragrance
Mark talks openly about challenges facing the washroom industry, particularly the environmental impact of products such as aerosols.
More environmentally conscious products can sometimes cost more, meaning customers have to balance environmental considerations against price. At the same time, legislation around products used in public places is becoming increasingly stringent.
P-Wave products are predominantly plastic, and Mark acknowledges the challenges this presents. He explains the research and science behind an additive designed to support biodegradability in landfill and the importance of using the best materials and science available.
Their products use slow-release fragrance, providing a consistent release over time rather than simply relying on how much fragrance is initially used.
The Challenge of the Urinal
Becky and Mark discuss why urinals can be particularly challenging when it comes to keeping washrooms smelling fresh.
Mark shares how working with Loo of the Year Awards has opened doors to new opportunities, including a visit to a cider factory in Herefordshire to look at its washroom requirements.
He particularly enjoys the challenge of stadiums, where large numbers of urinals provide an opportunity to use more mats and potentially reach more people with the NHS bladder cancer awareness message.
They also discuss whether there could be a similar health message aimed at women. Mark explains that while P-Wave does not currently have an equivalent product, he has worked with other companies providing women's washroom products, creating opportunities for future collaboration.
Looking to the Future
So, what does the future hold for P-Wave?
For Mark, it is about continuing to make sure washrooms stay fragrant, while educating the industry and developing products using the best materials, science and technology available.
He also highlights the importance of attending events such as the Loo of the Year Awards, where suppliers and businesses can learn more about the needs of the people who use washrooms every day.
An engaging conversation about fragrance, washroom products, health awareness, sustainability, education and the importance of looking beyond simply making a toilet smell nice.
Because sometimes, a smell really can make all the difference.
For more information about P-Wave, visit their website www.p-wave.co.uk or connect with Mark Wintle on LinkedIn Mark Wintle | LinkedIn
Hello Mark and welcome to the podcast, which is being put together by Lou of the Year Awards. I'm hoping that people have listened to some of the past ones and will be as excited as I am to have you here today from P-Wave to talk about what we've done together as the firms, the two P Wave and Lou of the Year Awards as our sponsors, and then also where we're going to hopefully go in the future. So let's start by you telling us what you do with P Wave and what P-Wave does for washrooms.
SPEAKER_01
Perfect. Well, thanks for having me. Thanks for coming. Yeah, so P Wave, well, so sorry, I'm I'm Mark Winslow, I'm the brand manager for P Wave. Um and we simplistically make washrooms smell better. That's kind of our whole thing. Um, we've got air freshness and urine or mats, is our kind of core product range.
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
And with that, how do you when you're looking at washrooms? Obviously, fragrances can hide things, but obviously you you look at that as as not being a negative. You go in with your fragrances to try and help them make it as a positive and not to hide things.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, so our kind of our whole thing has always been about power, really, of fragrance, you know, and and what the the difference it can make in those environments like a washroom where you've probably only in there for a few minutes, um, but it can leave a lasting impression on you as to what you find. Uh and scent is so important, smell is so important, you know, that can actually be the differentiator if you've got a perfectly clean washroom, um, or yeah, so two washrooms identical, uh both immaculately clean, but one smells better than the other, you know, you'll automatically your perception is that that washroom that smells nicer is a cleaner washroom. So um so we've always been about that. You know, naturally there are some quite challenging places that that that have really bad smells, high traffic and everything like that. So we've all always been about producing products that will help in those environments where it's probably most challenging, to be fair. So we often get parachuted in when there's like a really bad smell problem and it needs fixing, and they'll call us up and go, P wave help.
SPEAKER_00
I bet that's quite interesting to go in there because you're obviously going to think about where that smell's coming from and then how you can disguise it with the best fragrance. When I say disguise it, help improve it with the best fragrance. But then do you worry about whether that um smell that was there is something that might be just airborne, or is it something more serious that they also need to look at in another way? Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I mean I've always I've always tried to be quite consultative. So we'll go in there, and if I if I think there's a wider problem that we can't fix, you know, we can help, but we can't fix, then ultimately it's about looking at what the root cause of the problem is. And I actually my background was sales into this market anyway, so direct. So uh I've got a lot of experience with chemicals and you know, uric acid buildup in urinals and all the lovely stuff that we like to talk about in there.
SPEAKER_00
That's what I was getting at.
SPEAKER_01
So, yeah, so I've got you know, and where we work quite closely with other partners in industry to make those kind of recommendations and intros if it needs it as well. So, yeah.
SPEAKER_00
So, what's the most popular fragrance and why?
SPEAKER_01
Everybody seems to love mango. I don't know why. I don't I mean it's it's like a by far our best-selling fragrance, and we sell probably like twice as much of that as we do any other fragrance. I feel a bit on holiday or a bit more relaxed, but it's it's funny because I mean for me personally, I like the kind of linen type fragrances, you know, and stuff, but but yeah, everybody's different, and I think and that that is one thing you can say about fragrances like it's different for everyone. I mean, I suppose you see that in what people wear in terms of you know, perfumes and aftershaves and stuff as well, you know. So and not one fits all, does it? No, it doesn't, no. So but it's quite clear for us that that mango is the the uh the the standout sort of single fragrance that everybody seems to uh to gravitate towards.
SPEAKER_00
So and do they change with seasons? I mean, you know, I'm thinking now there's a there's a P wave map that I think cinnamon fragrance spiced apple, yeah. Is it so? Do people think about autumn coming to Christmas? Do they change their thoughts?
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, we also from now, I mean always uh we're kind of uh middle of the year, but from from now onwards we'll start to see a spike in sales of spiced apple, yeah, and run run down to Christmas, yeah. So people stock up on that, and uh yeah, we're usually left with not a lot by the time we get to Christmas where it's all gone, and then it's it crashes again. So you get to earlier earlier in the year, and suddenly the sales of spiced apple will drop and we'll go back and reverse back to mango.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah, right. But you know, we think about that, there's quite often um people talk about marketing in in shops and and hotels and places like that where they actually put fragrances into the lobby and areas like that so that you have a perception of something different, don't you?
SPEAKER_01
And and and it draws you to I think I mean that whole kind of scent marketing thing is huge now. You know, if you walk into I'm trying to think of the name, it's like a Novotel, if whatever every Novotel you walk into will always smell the same in the foyer, and it's to kind of give you that brand experience, no matter where you are in the world, you walk into that hotel and that's what you get. And there's a lot of places that are that now. I think a lot of uh kind of department stores and stuff do something similar, yeah. Unless they've got a massive perfume counter by the and then you'll get a real mixture of smells of all sorts, yeah. But it is amazing what kind of fragrance can do, and I think it's so important in our industry as well, when you know that that whole perception thing, but also it's often the the place that's the first and last visited, you know. So for us it's about cleanliness, you know, and um you know, standards generally in in toilets, but there's lots of little things that you can do that will make a lasting impression and make people want to come back because I mean I know so many people that plan their routes doing the job that we do on the road, you know, like around good toilet provision. And I think it's it's so important that you kind of businesses consider that actually it can help with sales, it can help drive business to them if they get that bit right.
SPEAKER_00
Absolutely, and I think and I think you've hit a nail on the head because lots of people think about those with disabilities or hidden disabilities planning their routes, they forget about people like yourselves that are on sales, um, going across the country, even the delivery men that are out delivering our parcels, um, right down to our services, firemen, policemen, ambulance, they don't have time to go back to base, so they've got to think about where they go as well, haven't they?
SPEAKER_01
And yeah, and you will you will naturally gravitate, I think, more towards the places where you think, oh yeah, that was good when I went there before.
SPEAKER_00
That was more pleasant, yeah. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, or that that garage I went to that was horrendous, was really unclean, had no soap and no paper or anything. You're like, I'm not going back there.
SPEAKER_00
No, and this is what obviously Lou of the Year awards, we're trying to get people to think more about looking at washrooms away from home, improving them, and then you know, as you say, being able to plan where you go because you can see the grading system. Yeah, yeah, definitely.
SPEAKER_01
And and I think that's where it's so important. And I think that one of the things that we've one of the reasons we got involved in kind of supporting and sponsoring Lou of the Year in the first place was because it felt very aligned to what we do. You know, we're passionate about toilets, we want to make toilets great, and um, you know, as a brand, and and I sense that and I see that in Lou of the Year awards, and I see with the marking system, the grading, the fact that you inspect, you know, for me that adds credibility to the awards and and makes it something that we want to support, you know. We want to be behind it. Obviously, there's a brand benefit for us as well because the certificates with our brand logo on in lots of these places, which is fantastic. Um, but it is about that that goal and being passionate about raising those standards, and that's what's important.
SPEAKER_00
And I think we have got that definite the passion. Yeah, and if you've got it, you've got it, haven't you? Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01
I think I think you have to, don't you? I mean, ultimately, I I mean most of my family members and friends laugh when I talk about toilets, but you know, I mean, I think everybody does get my high horse about it. But it's like, you know, they're but they're all using them, you know. They have to, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00
You know, it's something we've all got to do, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, definitely. You know, we've got an inspector and people frown at her about it. And she said, But hang on, I'm only going in with a criteria and a and a clipboard doing exactly what you do every day when you go to a washroom. Yeah, because we all check it out, don't we? We all see what we like, what we don't like. You've already said that about the the garage. So we're only doing really what everybody else does, but we're actually putting an accreditation and a and a grading system to it.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah, definitely. And it is overall, you can see standards increasing. I think in the 15-20 years that I've been in the industry, you know, there it's been a vast improvement in toilet provision, facilities, you know, cleanliness, you know, and and obviously I think things like COVID have helped as well in terms of elevating that level of clean, you know, like um it kind of highlighted how important cleaning is.
SPEAKER_00
Um and about the education that people need to do it, it's not domestic cleaning, is it?
SPEAKER_01
It is no, it's and sometimes in ridiculously high traffic environments, you know.
SPEAKER_00
Like it's hard.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it is, yeah. If you've got, I don't know, 10, 20, 30,000 people going through a a place in one day, those toilets take a hammer in, you know, and uh and yeah, but you can see that there's a lot of businesses out there that do take still still take pride in ensuring they've got attendance that are there continuously and making sure that it's it's kind of kept up to scratch, and that's great.
SPEAKER_00
So let's also talk about the uh P Wave itself that goes in the Uran and the work that you've been doing with the NHS because obviously we uh as Louis The Year Awards um are very much about talking about disabilities and hidden disabilities and how toilets need to be uh uh available for everybody.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
Uh but you've got the P Wave with a message on which we've uh um facilitated at Lou of the Year Awards by giving you a platform to talk about what that message is and and how it's helping. Would you like to tell us a little bit about that and and what uh how the journey has been?
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah, sure. I mean, so so we you know, we always wanted to do something a little bit more with, you know, it was obvious to us that and and how our brand had grown, really, by that name being there in the Urinals. It helped us become the market leader in what we do, you know, by people constantly seeing that reminder of the brand. So it was like a conversation we had, but it was pre-COVID really, around could we do more with it? Is there something we could do? And we had some initial conversations with prostate cancer that unfortunately didn't happen because COVID hit and everything went a little bit pear-shaped for a short time. Um, but coming out the other side of that, then we start we were approached by the NHS, yeah. So we had um their partnerships team contact us to talk about it and see if we would be interested in putting a uh a kind of yeah, an NHS cancer awareness message on the mats, and that was how it evolved. So we yeah, we we got involved uh with them doing that. Uh the the message on the mats is blood and your pea, contact your GP practice. If I had I'd have if I had a pound for every time somebody said you should have dropped the practice and it rhymed, so it was blood and your pea, contact your GP practice. Um I'd be a very rich man, but um, yeah, essentially there there are kind of I don't want to go into too much detail, but within the NHS, there are things that you can say, things you can't, and because your GP, it's not just your GP, your practice, it's everything, it's nurses, it's all the support you get. So we had to include the word practice, but I digress. Um, but in terms of the messaging, I mean it's been phenomenal, you know. We did a survey right at the beginning, uh, and 46% of uh the 2,000 men that we surveyed didn't know that blood in P was a symptom of cancer. Uh, 71% of them also said that they would be more inclined to visit their GP if they saw a message like this on a UI normat. So the stats were there to say this is actually going to be really, really good. Yeah. Um and will make a difference, and that's ultimately we wanted to do. You know, it's it's kind of yeah, it's great that we sell kind of cleaning products and things that make things smell nice, and that's fantastic. But if we can actually do something that might save a life, I mean that's that's phenomenal, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So so that was what that was all about, and um, and it's been amazing since. I mean, we're up to I think about two million urinal mats now with that message that have gone out. We've had loads of anecdotes really, you know. Around we had a chap from uh contacts to say it's in the mats in a MS store in Bristol, got himself checked, he had testicular cancer early on. Um, and credits basically us and the NHS were saving his life because he felt that if he hadn't have had that prompt, he wouldn't have gone and got checked.
SPEAKER_00
So that's that's amazing. Yeah, yeah, isn't it? You know, that it just makes you think just from that little print, that's that's one life that you know of, and there might be many, many more out there that haven't come back to you either.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, and even just you know, even if it's prompted, you know. I mean, I had to had a lecturer from a university contact to say that uh he'd got checked off the back of that message and got the all clear and it was all great, and that's what you're it's what you're asking for. You're asking for that nudge that men, we don't we're not great. We don't like to go to the doctors, we don't like to get checked, and we sometimes talk about problems, exactly that. Yeah, I mean, even like at mental health and stuff like that. There's a lot of things that we're not great at when it comes to that kind of thing, and having difficult conversations, and um, you know, that's what this is about. It's about giving somebody a nudge at the moment in time, because I think this is what the NHS have really liked in particular about this partnership, is they can do lots of stuff with messages on different things, but there are very few where you're you've got a captive audience for 30 seconds to a minute, and literally they're doing the action at the moment in time when they're presenting a message. Yeah, so that's that's where it's kind of high impact, I suppose, really.
SPEAKER_00
Because like with where that aligns with us as well is that um Louis the Year Awards is trying to raise awareness of what the washroom is all about, and it's not just about going to the toilet, it's about being safe, it's about well-being, so you know, your dignity and how that is all affected by how a washroom is presented. And so we talk about public washrooms, but we also talk about washrooms in offices and places like that where that might be the only space you break away from your desk. And if you're stressed and you go in there and it's a bad experience, it's not helping, is it? You know, so we we think that that really aligns with what you're doing as well with the with with the P wave.
SPEAKER_01
Well, I think I mean even for me, I mean I I've got a bit of OCD when it comes to washing my hands, and the amount of times I've gone into a washroom, there's no soap, and it really freaks me out, and I'm like, I've got to kind of chill out about it because you can't be you can't be on the road doing this job and that that be a thing because it's I mean I've I've got obviously baby wipes in the car and some um some hand gel and stuff, but it's like you know, even small things like that is so you know, it's so frustrating, you know. Um so um, but yeah, I think it is important. I think what the well-being element is really important. Um, and I think if we can do small things in washrooms that will make a difference, you know, incrementally.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah it's because we do, as you said before, everybody, there's not one of us that doesn't use a washroom, whether it be at home or out with work or out and about every day. Yeah. You know, yeah, yeah. And that that's what surprises me about people not wanting to talk about it.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah, because it's uh even small improvements can make a massive difference over the long term, you know, and and that's it. So, yeah, especially when you think, as you say, about how many thousands of people are using public washrooms every day. Yeah, um, it's yeah, it's it's really important, yeah.
SPEAKER_00
So let's talk about uh what else we've we've been doing together with Louis of the Year Awards. So um we started working with a primary school and uh we have eight little ambassadors who are wanting to change their washroom at school, and they talked to the headmaster, and he said, Well, look, you know, we can do it cosmetically and we can change things, but we can't change uh the physical side of it. So you came along as one of our our sponsors to meet with the children. We Charles and I and Jane had had an initial meeting with them and talked to them about what they were thinking, and then we got yourselves and Stuart from Talk and um Alistair from uh Dunham Washrooms and uh Vicky from the Three B's. And we had a meeting with them and Charlotte from the university joined us over Zoom, didn't she? And we we had a discussion with them. Talk to us about that, what you what you felt uh about the children, what well I think first of all, I mean the school was really impressive, you know, like it's an eco school, isn't it? So it's an eco green flag, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01
So they were I mean their their kind of passion for all things eco was was really impressive from such a young age. But I think the whole general um outlook and the way that they yeah, the way they operate as a school, you know, in terms of giving uh giving ownership to the children to for everything, you know, like uh not just the the toilet aspect but everything within that within the school and some of the older children helping the s younger children to understand that. But I mean you can just tell they're all very passionate about making a making it a better school for everyone, you know, and that that's fantastic, you know. That's what's what you want to want to see in children at such a young age, you know, is it's kind of developing that passion. And and it'd be nice to know that some of those ambassadors might go on to to potentially do a cleaning role or something else in the industry at some stage.
SPEAKER_00
What we'd like to think, wouldn't we? Because um talking with Paul Threpp from the IWSA, he was saying um how cleaning facilities, well, facility management, everybody thinks it's just cleaning, they don't realise all the things that go together with it. And I so I sort of said, Do you think now things are becoming a bit more digital? We might encourage more youngsters to take part. But I think you're right, I think it comes down to almost at school making them look at the environment around them and and how they feel it can be improved, might give them a spark to want to do it. Even architecture, maybe, for the future of what washrooms might look like.
SPEAKER_01
Definitely, because I think it sets a standard in their mind at a young age of what's what should be expected as well, you know. Like and um, and uh yeah, it's it's all really important. But I thought I was really impressed with the school. I think they're a fantastic group of kids and really, really passionate, like we are again about what what we're talking about, and um yeah, it's fantastic.
SPEAKER_00
Because you um asked them about their favourite fragrances.
SPEAKER_01
Do you remember which was they all had a different opinion, didn't they? Which is which is the challenge that we have in producing fragrance products. But yeah, I think there was uh there was one that did like the mango, was quite um.
SPEAKER_00
And then there was one that liked lavender, but yeah, we decided perhaps in school that was a little bit too chill. Yeah, yeah. Don't want to fall asleep.
SPEAKER_01
No, yeah, exactly. Yeah, so um yeah, but there was yeah, it was a lavender favourite in there, yeah.
SPEAKER_00
But they yeah, they they took you round as well, didn't they? And um showed you the toilets and talked about what they liked and what they didn't like.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, definitely. We had some great conversations around the kind of eco side of it as well, you know, like we're talking about kind of aerosols and about the the issues that they can create and everything else, and so looking at alternatives that are non-aerosol based, you know, just in terms of not necessarily just the disposal, but it's the chemicals, it's the human health aspect, you know, and uh and all of that. So yeah, so it was great. It was great to get a tour and for them to you know to talk about kind of what they wanted and what they were looking for and and how we could help them make improvements to their washroom. That was great. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00
And you know, we're hoping that we can probably do more with that and and grow it from just Madly and uh and make other schools because I don't know about you, but I think education at a young age would help uh young teenagers up into adults maybe respect public toilets because when we talk about public toilets and and the council, some of the councils won't uh uh refurb because they say they just get damaged and it's the youth of today, and they blame blame that straight away, don't they? Yeah. But you know from that what we saw at Madley, the positivity was if we could actually uh do that on a bigger scale, uh would that help that and I think you're absolutely right, I think it would.
SPEAKER_01
I think it is with the kids education always, isn't it? And I think it's it is easy later on to say, oh well it's because of this or whatever, but I mean the amount of times I've been I've been to sort of uh I've been to some some places that perhaps are not my favourite toilets to visit, you know, where um they have some real challenges around, you know, like kind of uh unmanned kind of public places where um there's nobody there and and issues happen overnight and things like that, and we have to find kind of air fresheners that they can hide in places still to create a nice environment, but so they don't get stolen and and things like that. So I think it you know that education at a young age is really important, learning you know, teaching them how to respect things, you know, is is really important, and uh but it would be great to do something wider, yeah. I think having those conversations wider around that and around the the health aspect, you know, yes, picking products that are you know, if they've got chemical makeup that are lowering VOCs so they're not as dangerous and and that kind of thing as well. Yeah, I think it's really important.
SPEAKER_00
So, how do you see P Wave growing in the future then? Because we've obviously got fragrances, we've got your vinyl mats. Is there new products and things that are gonna come to our washrooms?
SPEAKER_01
There'll definitely be new products, yeah. I think at the moment I'm kind of keen for us to stay in our lane in terms of what we do and be known as that kind of fragrance brand. But there'll be other probably ways that we do that and add to the range. Um Um but uh um yeah I think I think for me at the moment that's the focus is still continuing what we do and do it really really well and uh um because I do believe we're the market leader at what we do and and I want that to continue. So um yeah, so but it for me it's kind of taking that further forward, educating more around what we spoke about, you know, uh moving away from aerosol air freshening to stuff that's a bit kinder and friendlier. Um and I think that's a a real importance as well.
SPEAKER_00
And is there in when you're talking about that aerosols and things like that, is there policies within health and safety now to stop those being used in public places?
SPEAKER_01
If you still see your cans of things, don't you? I think it's tightening up, but uh and I th but I think it it the challenge is always uh the challenge in in our in all markets is cost, you know, and and they're relatively cheap to produce. Um and so when you've got a kind of a customer that needs to weigh up between you know moving to something that's better um from an environmental perspective or from a you know human health perspective versus something that's very very cheap. You know, the only way that really changes longer term, other than education, is also legislation, and I think that's moving a little bit more. I was seeing like the waste regulation uh changes um earlier in this year, yes. Um around disposal of that. I mean they're yeah, essentially an aerosol that is not empty but still has a little bit of liquid in it is is classed as hazardous, yes, you know. Um has to be disposed of accordingly. I think there's a lot of people that didn't realise that, and now they've bought in kind of digital waste tracking for it, and that makes it a little bit more challenging if you're not doing it the right way. Um, but you know, we've seen products with acetone in them as well that are being sprayed around, you know, that's not great. No polish remover being atomized into the air, which is always slightly worrying. Um, yeah, so it's it's for me, it's about that education piece, and yeah, I'm sure legislation will start to catch up as well, you know.
SPEAKER_00
So looking at that then, sustainability and and recyclable um fresheners and P wave, you know, how does how's that working?
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, good. I mean, we we have to we have to be honest and say look, our products are plastic, you know, they're made from EVA, um, and so there are challenges around that, you know. So we you know, for the example of the urinal mats, when they've been urinated on for a month, don't tend to get recycled. So we we decided quite a way back, so we've been testing this now since 2019. We've got an additive in them called EcoPure. That means essentially if they end up in landfill conditions, they'll biodegrade much quicker than they would otherwise, right? So I think as far as I'm aware, we're the only company that have done that. Okay, so we've now got long-term testing, seven years of testing, and we've got 90% biodegradation in those seven years in landfill conditions. So for a product that potentially could take hundreds of years to disappear, that's a great place to be. Um, you know, and and I think that's what we're trying to do. We're looking at it, there is at the moment, as far as we're concerned, and we've done lots of testing and trial different materials, there's nothing else that will hold fragrance that the level hours does on the market that that we could switch to. So you'd end up foregoing the benefit of the product lasting as long as it does, and all the rest of it. So it's always a trade-off, and I think that's all you can do is kind of with the best materials that are available, the and the science that's out there is go with what you think is the the right way to do it, and that's what we've done. You know, we've tried we try to produce a product that will last as long as possible, um, so that it doesn't need to be changed out every week or every two weeks, like some of the others that that are out there, you know. It could it will last a month at least, and that's what we we say.
SPEAKER_00
And so you say it'll last a month. So, how do you how have you worked that out in how many times it will have been peed on? So, you know, because it depends on your footfall. I mean, if you've got a high footfall, will it last a month?
SPEAKER_01
I think it it's designed to slow release over that month. I mean, the one thing we've done with our product, the fragrance is right the way through the product as well. So it's not if you cut it in half, the the the very centerpiece will still smell really strong of fragrance, you know. That's how it works, it's not coated or anything. So um it is designed to slow release. I mean, if you've got a ridiculously high traffic environment with drain problems and everything else, it might it might chat be a challenge, you know. Um but in 90% of or 95% of situations, it'll be good enough to do what it needs to do.
SPEAKER_00
So we're talking about the slow release over a time period rather than how many usages.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So it doesn't if you keep weing on it, it's not gonna wash it away, as it were. Yeah, essentially. Yeah, the fragrance is still there through through the product, yeah.
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
SPEAKER_01
Uh I mean we had to the point where you there is a noticeable shrinkage as well. So with our product, when you first put it in over the month it will shrink down by sort of 10%, yeah, where you've got fragrance coming out of it that that sort of uh makes it shrink down.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, and for you, that's uh that product is better than people putting all the blocks and things that they used to put it in and because they used to be able to put that in, but it uh they sort of dissolve and then recrystallise in the pipes, didn't they, and cause more problems if you're not careful.
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, Amazon can do, should we say as I said earlier, so some of my background was selling kind of industrial chemicals uh into these environments sort of many years ago, and uh so for for for me, and uh speak bad of any other product, but there there's a degree of fallacy around them descaling when you know that certain ones will reach a certain size, fall down the drain, cause further blockages, and that's what we used to see. It was a lot of that. And uh back in the day we used to have harsh acids and things that would clean drains. You can't use that kind of product now, but you still face the same problems with those sort of products and and just general scale build-up in your rhinols as well. So yeah, I think it it's a harsh, it's a harsh environment. Your rhinols are challenging, they really are challenging to manage, you know. And I think there's a lot of waterless ones out there as well. Now they present their own set of challenges if they're not maintained properly, and I think it's it's a very difficult one to know what the right thing to do is, you know. But as I say, we always take a bit of a consultative approach, and you know, if somebody's got those kind of problems, I'm happy to come in and check it out and uh and take a look and see what we can recommend, you know.
SPEAKER_00
So I've got a question now.
SPEAKER_01
Right.
SPEAKER_00
You uh you visited one of the uh the the Herefordshire cider producers.
SPEAKER_01
I did indeed.
SPEAKER_00
Do they have spiced apple in there?
SPEAKER_01
We're still finalising that one, yeah. So uh I think they hopefully will do around Christmas time, potentially. Yeah, I mean Apple Apple will go down the treat there, surely.
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, so uh you can smell the apples outside and can smell them inside.
SPEAKER_01
I mean that that was a great example of uh Lou of the Year awards, and you know, um Helen sort of spoke to us um and and said she'd like us to to come and come in and take a look, which I did, yeah. So did a pay went down there for a site visit and looked around, looked at some of the challenges they've got and uh made some recommendations. And that's what that's what I'll always do, you know. We're sort of uh quite honest about what we can do and what we can't do. Um and uh but again, a great kind of yeah, a great lead, if you like, that came from the Lou of the Year Awards, you know, and that's what I that's what's great about that event as well, is the people that are in the room and the conversations that I get to have. Because you know, we're very much a distributor-based business, so yeah, our sales are all through distribution, but it's great sometimes to meet some of the end users and have those conversations. It helps us form the future of what products will be as well.
SPEAKER_00
And I'm really pleased you say that because quite often I do talk to people and they say, Oh, yeah, but we we just deal with distributors, and I'm like, but isn't it a good way of finding out what your end customer really wants so that you can then make sure that the distributors you're working with can provide it. Um, and sometimes that that works. People are listening, oh yeah. Some people it just falls on death. No, we only deal with distributors, and I think that's quite a shame because it's not for many hours, but you can learn a lot.
SPEAKER_01
No, I I think I would say 60 to 70 percent of my role is spent now spending time with end users, you know. They they don't buy from me, they you know, they'll they'll we'll we'll show them the product, but it's purchased through our distributors, but it's it's about talking to them so they understand the kind of what the product can do and and and what what can be offered right by our range, really, you know.
SPEAKER_00
And so do you have uh do you have a favourite uh um place that you go and deal with?
SPEAKER_01
So for instance, of hotels, football stadiums, schools, is there something that you look forward to maybe a challenge or yeah, I love I love at the moment I love a big opportunity within a stadium environment where you've got where we're when we're talking about our NHS partnership, where there's the opportunity to get that message in front of potentially thousands and thousands of men, that's that's what I'm looking at.
SPEAKER_00
Be careful because you know there's a lot of ladies at visit stadiums. I know you Mats aren't going into your writings, but you might upset listening.
SPEAKER_01
Oh no, I didn't mean to have no, I didn't mean it, but it but there is, you know, we've looked at the stats, and there's an awful lot of men at match days and and things like that. So where you've got an opportunity to get that message in front of thousands and thousands of men in men's toilets, that's what I'm looking at, really, is a great opportunity.
SPEAKER_00
So, moving on from that then, is there not a product that could go into ladies' toilets that could do similar for ladies to check breast cancer or I don't know?
SPEAKER_01
We have we have looked at breast cancer, yeah. We have looked at it. Yeah, it's it's difficult. I mean, we've got air freshener products, but they tend to be at more of a distance and they're not really that visible. Yeah, so we did look at that. Um, but I've also made some introductions to other companies in our industry that work with feminine kind of products, you know, that that work in ladies' toilets. So um, so yeah, some of our partnerships team at the NHS have had some intros from me to other companies that can help in that arena, and that's what I try and do because we can't do it all, you know. No, no, uh, and there are things that are just not our bag, they're not our niche, and but there are a lot of other companies out there that have got a niche, and and that's where I try and make those intros where possible.
SPEAKER_00
So, what do you think the future is for P Wave then?
SPEAKER_01
Um yeah, it's gonna be fragrant. I know that mate. Will we try new fragrances?
SPEAKER_00
Because obviously, yeah, I think you know trends change.
SPEAKER_01
Yes, they do change, yeah. And I think we we've seen we've definitely seen some trends in in kind of yeah, everybody loves a bit of bergamo and sandalwood at the moment and stuff like that. I think the difficulty with those kind of fragrances, they're hard to get in concentration, right? So you tend to find it's a weaker product, and and so we it's a balance for us when we've marketed ourselves as a power power sort of uh air freshening uh brand, you know, we can do some stuff like that, but it it's never gonna have the same power level as some of our other stuff. So I think that's what we're we're kind of will probably move into a bit more um with the right range with the right products, yeah.
SPEAKER_00
So fantastic. Well, we love having you on board as a sponsor and uh and a partnership with us because you're always smiling, laughing, and and helping and helping us because we have that same passion to talk about all the things we need to talk about and get people talking about we and Pooh and you know disabilities and things like that. So, you know, thank you very much for for being with us.
SPEAKER_01
No, not at all. And well, I that's one of the other great things that's come out of the awards for me is learning about a lot more of these kind of ailments that people go through and have to handle on a daily basis, you know. Um, I think that that's it's it's an education coming to Louis the Year Awards for me as well.
SPEAKER_00
Well, I think that's what we want it to be as well, it's an awareness to to raise awareness. I know when before Charles and I own Louis the Year Awards, we obviously used to be a participant and we used to go. And things like changing places back in the day, you know, we hadn't we were lucky enough not to have anybody in our family that needed them. But my goodness, we have learnt so much and so passionate about making sure that those areas now are there for families that are caring for whether it be older people or younger people, but that awareness and education was learnt through Louis of the Year Awards, and that's what we'd like to see it do going forward. So having your platform or giving you a platform to talk about uh prostate cancer and NHS and things like that, it's been brilliant for us because it's also made our awareness that we're trying to do that much bigger because you've got the stats, you've got the the the videos to prove what's what's been happening.
SPEAKER_01
Definitely. I think none of us ever really know as well when we might end up with something like that, and you need to to have that information. So I think it's all it's all really important, you know, and it all makes such a difference. So yeah, keep up the good work.
SPEAKER_00
Let's hope so. Together. Well, thank you ever so much, Mark. Is there anything else that you'd like to tell us about P Wave or how anybody can get in touch with you to be able to find out more?
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I'm I'm I'm on LinkedIn. I'm quite active. I tend to be quite active on LinkedIn how busy I am. But yeah, um, but yeah, I mean they they can reach out to via the P Wave website as well. So p wave.co.uk. Uh yeah, p wave.co.uk is our website, um, and there's contact information on there. You know, if you've got a toilet that smells a bit bad and you want some help with it, give me a shout, and we're happy to organise samples for you as well. You know, we're quite good at that. We like to give away samples because we know how good the product is.
SPEAKER_00
So well, thank you for coming today and talking to us. Um, I'm sure everybody will really enjoy that because there's a lot of information in there that affects us all. So thank you very much for that.
