Knife Crime: Fear, Survival & The Ripple Effect

Special Guest: Keith Collyer, Crawley Combat Academy and Shariff Boolaky, Menshare Listening Group. Plus Roundtable Featuring: Maureen Jones, Micaela Leal, Abigail Chapman-Miller & Iqbal Khan. Host: Clive Hilton. 

A knife doesn’t just threaten one person, it detonates consequences across families, schools, and whole streets. We sit down to talk honestly about knife crime, why the fear of being attacked pushes some young people to carry blades, and why places like Crawley feel the pressure so sharply. Along the way we challenge the comforting myths, including the idea that it is only “gang stuff” or that it can be solved with one slogan.

Keith Collyer from Crawley Combat Academy explains what real-world knife awareness looks like: spotting pre-attack indicators, managing distance, moving with purpose, and escaping rather than trying to win a fight. We also hear personal stories of being stabbed, surviving threats, and the numb shock that hits even when you think you know what to do. The conversation keeps returning to trauma and the ripple effect, and why counselling and support are vital for victims and families who are left carrying it for years.

We then zoom out to prevention: county lines, youth violence, easy access to kitchen knives, parenting awareness, and the debate around policing, stop and search, and deterrence. Abigail Chapman-Miller shares what it means when youth services disappear and you only qualify for help after you’ve been convicted, while Shariff Boolaky from Menshare Listening Group talks about education, responsibility, and creating routes out for young people who feel trapped by their environment. 

If this topic matters to you, listen, share it with someone local, and subscribe for more community conversations. After you’ve listened, leave us a review and tell us what you think would make the biggest difference where you live.

Please click on 'Send a text' above & join our Facebook group to share your perspective and suggestions for future topics - Thank you for your interest! Clive.

Transcript

Welcome And Why Knife Crime Matters

SPEAKER_05 0:00

Welcome to the Sussex and Surrey Soapbox. Real viewpoints, real opinions, and a balanced conversation on the community issues that matter.

SPEAKER_06 0:10

It's the Sussex and Surrey soapbox, and this week we're getting into knife crime. Now, knife crime nationally may be falling slightly, but communities across Sussex and Surrey still remain deeply concerned, especially around youth violence, county lines, and the fear. The fear of driving young people to carry knives for self-protection. Crawley continues to be identified as one of West Sussex's most significant serious violent hotspots, while towns like Redhill and Hawley also feel the ripple effect of the transport-linked crime and exploitation as well. So we've got an amazing group around the table. If we'd just quickly go around and introduce ourselves.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

I'm a therapist and I live near Eye Gate in Surrey.

SPEAKER_00 1:14

Hi, I'm Abigail Chapman Miller. I'm a Labour councillor, vice chair of the parish council, and actually an ex-youth worker.

SPEAKER_06 1:23

We did a we did a bit of a poll on the Facebook group, Sussex and Surrey Soapbox Facebook group. We asked who's been directly impacted by knife crime. And it's not as high as you might expect, but those that are impacted are impacted at quite a deep level. And so it's great to have Keith here, who um, you know, has spent a lot of time helping people, preventative.

Trauma After Stabbings And Trust

SPEAKER_06 1:46

Keith, just tell us a little bit about what got you into this.

SPEAKER_04 1:49

Okay, yeah, thank you. Um, first of all, I got into martial arts, I was training martial arts. Um, I then sort of decided to ri I realised that uh a lot of what I was learning was very good, but not actually sort of worthwhile for the type of things happening on the streets, and that's the sort of questions I was being asked by my students. So then I started looking into other methods of training, military type systems, um, and basically I started training them um and then teaching them, and I've been doing so for the last 27 years.

SPEAKER_06 2:20

Wow. Um, and with knife crime, it does affect youngsters and it actually cross those over into county lines, drugs, organised crime. So it's quite a complex area, it's not just you know people carrying knives to protect themselves. Has anyone anyone been affected by this?

SPEAKER_03 2:36

I knew somebody very close to me um who was actually on the end of knife crime. They found themselves in a confined space with an individual, and um they suffered multiple stab wounds that um very nearly cost them no life. They were in a coma for about a month. Um so they had to deal and probably still are dealing with the trauma around that experience. Um, like I said, I knew them very well, so I think I had a bit of post-traumatic stress disorder myself as a consequence of that. But yeah, thank God they're doing all right now.

SPEAKER_06 3:17

So and and what what helps people that go through that? What helps?

SPEAKER_03 3:22

Um because the act was committed by a particular gender, the victim in this instance would distance themselves from anybody of that particular gender. And so there's a lot of reframing that it's it's pushed onto the men. Why they did it, they're all at fault, they're all the same kind of a trust, a kind of trust. The trust, the trust element around that particular gender is obviously very difficult now, and so I find that's how probably they deal with it more, and so you have to be very mindful for those who on the end of those kind of experiences are triggered by maybe seeing a knife, even and you know, you do a lot of work with

Training To Escape Knife Threats

SPEAKER_03 4:05

Menche listening group in the circles across the area.

SPEAKER_06 4:09

Knife crime come up much?

SPEAKER_03 4:11

No, knife crime doesn't come up at all, to be honest with you. My first exposures really probably were working with Keith here. We obviously mentioned do a lot of work with Keith around self-defense and stuff like that. And I can't think of a person or better place to teach you about how to deal with knife crime, and I think in that instance as well with Keith is that he facilitates, he shows you how to escape. It's not about being in a position to confront, it's about being in a position to defend yourself best you can, and then facilitate your own escape, not engage in anything you can do. Oh, yeah, you don't want to have a fight, do you? It's about self-preservation and being able to run basically and escape the situation. And I and I can't think of a better person in this era to teach anybody about it.

SPEAKER_04 4:58

Um, yeah, I mean, we uh I I've been actually teaching a knife aware survival programme uh that literally is about noticing pre-fight indicators, noticing um pre-wroad the knife. So it's these type of things gives you time to be able to make an exit. Um, there's also some sort of strategies to deal with uh positioning, moving to the other side, gives you a little bit more extra time. Um, when it comes to this stuff, seconds can can be the difference between being alive or not. So it's uh a system that I've built, and uh I have been teaching to sort of a lot of corporate companies plus our own students, and it's literally really just to get out and dodge, get out of there and save your life.

SPEAKER_06 5:44

And how many sessions would it take? I mean, obviously, we're not talking about doing martial arts and and and fully qualifying it, but to get enough sessions on average, how how many sessions would it take us?

SPEAKER_04 5:55

To be honest with you, we we've I've literally made it so it's very, very simple to learn and easy to retain as well. Um, so you know, you could do something like three, four hours and you could have a really good um way of knowing how to deal with it yourself a lot better. You know, the one thing people say is run away, just run away. And uh as much as that is quite true, it's a bit of an insult to all the people are not here anymore because if it was that easy, why are they not here?

SPEAKER_06 6:24

Yeah, no, exactly. And and just tell us about that student, Crawley College. Um, you helped someone that actually did use the techniques that that you taught them.

SPEAKER_04 6:35

Yeah, um he was a teacher at Crawley College, and uh it was in 2021 when that um guy who's an ex-ex-student was walking around with a firearm. It it was a blank firing firearm, but it went off. And uh then the teacher, he was actually pointing at another teacher, it went off. So the guy who used to be one of our students went running towards it and uh dis disabled it and basically had pulled a knife by that time. So what we teach is really simple and it works, and it's not you know, we have the physical side, but we also have the other side to it where we actually will get out of it before any of the physicality happens. I think that's more important, yeah. But then obviously, if you're cornered or you can't do you know, you can't get away, well then that's where the physicality comes in. That's where we actually put our uh a sort of programme together that works together with that.

SPEAKER_06 7:31

And have you yourself come across uh knife crime personally?

SPEAKER_04 7:35

Uh I have, yes. I had a knife pulled on me years ago um in the town centre in Crawley.

SPEAKER_06 7:40

And even though you come from that background of self-defence, how how did that feel?

SPEAKER_04 7:44

I mean, when it really happens, uh it's it just you just feel numb. And you do you do feel just that even I I knew what to do, but I still had that split second of oh my god, do you know what I mean? And uh I think really and truly just training just helps you to just just to be able to not freeze. We we have a say squeeze and freeze. So it's about just actually having some basic strategies, it's not like you said, learning a load of martial arts, which are great. I love martial arts, I teach and train martial arts as well, but it's completely different.

SPEAKER_06 8:18

So just a few hours with you can make all the difference. And anyone listening to this that might think, you know, wouldn't mind spending half a day with you. What what sort of courses do you do and how might they get in touch?

SPEAKER_04 8:29

Yeah, I mean I teach classes as well, but for people that haven't got the the time to put you in for classes, we do teach seminars and workshops at our Academy in Crawley. And just give me the details again on the website. Uh it's www.crawleycombatacademy.com. And uh we're at Tilgate Park, part 17 in Tilgate Park.

SPEAKER_06 8:50

Okay, and Ichbel, any any experience on knife

Lived Experience From Both Sides

SPEAKER_06 8:53

chrome with you? Have you seen the impact of it?

SPEAKER_07 8:55

You know what? I'm not gonna lie to you. Um sitting here listening to Keith, I've had a lot of flashbacks. Um loads. I mean, it's it's a bit uh the first time I bought a knife in this country was across the road. There used to be an army and military shop right there, wasn't it? Where Metros is. And I remember buying a massive thing called a navigator, like crocodile dundee thing.

SPEAKER_06 9:17

Um yeah, holding arms apart, it's like it was massive, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 9:20

Uh but I I I'm on a like obviously these this is um I've got two convictions for knives. Oh wow, yeah, I I forgot about it's as I'm sat here, like it's like, oh yeah, I've got two like it's uh bladed ankle, namely a knife. Um I've been stabbed twice, sliced once, and probably like maybe another four or five times I've had attempts where someone was tried to stab me. But years after I changed my life around, I was waiting outside United Taxi's office. You know, like you said, you watch people's movements. And as I'm standing there, I see someone pull a knife out, and he just went to go stab someone else. And I because I saw the whole I just grabbed him, had to show him the camera. Like you're right underneath the bloody camera outside a taxi office. Do you know what life in prison is? And I saw his face change. You know, like it the reality kicked in, like, oh shit. Like, do you know what you that's the thing a lot of the but it's been normalized, isn't it?

SPEAKER_06 10:21

It's this whole thing of carrying a knife and using knives, it's kind of a little bit normalized by the film, social media, and and when the reality dawns on someone of the consequences of their action, I think I'd have to disagree.

SPEAKER_07 10:33

I don't think it's the movies, I don't think I think it's the their reality that they're living. Okay, it's the reality of their lives. If I'm going to school and I know everyone's got uh a knife on them, they'll go I'm gonna bring mine as well. And they do in this town. A lot I I remember like I I f I hand out free free meals to anyone to the youngsters. I'd like giving the food to the youngsters because I get to talk to them, test the temperature, see what's going on in the streets. And uh two of them are there, one of them's like, he's come up to me, he's like, he's got a knife on him. And he's only 13, the kid is like, he's got a knife on him now, because I was that's what I was asking about, and then he's turned around and gone, so do you. So I'm standing there with two 13-year-olds who both got knives on them, and I can't actually tell them get rid of it because their mentality is firstly, I don't do that because I want to give them the like I'm here to talk to you, like I'm not, you know. But actually you're not here to tell them what to do, but um, but I try to like just guide them. Advise, yeah. And the best thing to do is be out there, be seen, and give them something to get involved with. Like I try to get them to come volunteer and do things like that. But there's it's that sentiment that I'd rather get caught by the police with it than get caught with my enemies without it.

SPEAKER_06 11:44

And the reason we're focusing on crawley is because it accounts for around 23% of all violent crime in West Sussex. So it is a bit of a hot spot. It might not be as bad as some of the London areas, but Crawley is a bit of a hot spot across West Sussex. But if we come back to your past of where you've been stabbed, what what's the driving factors?

SPEAKER_07 12:04

Why why do people resort in uh two of whom were drug dealers that I robbed? Okay, so largely drug dealers, gangs, things like that. Um I did have one random thing, but I didn't. But you knew why you were stabbed, there was a reason behind it. Yeah, yeah, I'd robbed them before, so like that's understandable they they caught me slipping, that's part of the life. But then there was a time when I'd changed my life. So uh I literally changed my life.

SPEAKER_06 12:28

You know because there's like two parts to it, but there's there's the past life.

SPEAKER_07 12:32

There's the past life and then there's this life. Yeah. Uh and as I was on this journey, I come out my mate's flat. It was like five in the morning. We were watching the box uh MMA was on. I've come out and I see a group of youngsters just standing outside Tesco's. All I did was just literally just turn my head, you know. You see a key, turn my head back, walk off. But obviously, I'm because of my previous life, I'm still on point. So I'm you can hear the so I look behind me now, two of them are getting closer to me. Like, oh, what's going on here? But they're young. I'm talking about maybe 15, 16. And they're like, oh, who are you, bruv? And as they do, I'm like, oh listen, I'm nobody, I'm old enough to be your dad, I'm going home. Those are my exact words. One of them was like, What? You're my dad, yeah? You're like literally, that's exactly what he said. Like it was like an animal. I'm like, what the like, I'm not just trying to diffuse the situation. And then uh, yeah, I heard the flick. And the only thing that saved me that day, I got a brand new, I had my brand new jacket on Stone Island, beautiful thing for the summer. And that's all I as he was trying to stab me, all I was thinking about was I'm I just I swear I'm just like, oh god my dad.

SPEAKER_06 13:40

Excuse me. But yeah, have you ever told anyone else that you could be their dad since uh maybe last?

SPEAKER_07 13:45

But the funny thing is I the kid who was trying to stab me that day. Yeah, uh, and let me tell you something, this went on for about 15 minutes. So it wasn't like it was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like he was put and it wasn't just it was it was a lot of provocating.

SPEAKER_06 13:59

He was trying to he was actually trying to stab me that day. Um and it's it comes down to what Keith was saying earlier. You can tell you can tell the situation that of course what what would be your advice, Keith, if you were in the ear of Ickbel back then, what would you tell him?

SPEAKER_04 14:13

I do like the idea of having a new jacket on. I think that sort of uh it gives you a bit of an idea that moving out the way is always a good thing. But you know, um maybe just getting out of there altogether, um, when you've got someone waving a knife about, um, I'd always go on caution. Um you can't.

SPEAKER_06 14:30

I can't see Ickbel running that.

SPEAKER_04 14:32

No, but do you know what? It's it's don't always look at it as running, it's escaping. Yeah. Um that I think if you change the words, you you are you're escaping to save your life. You've got a responsibility, you've got people at home that love you. So why are you taking a risk?

SPEAKER_07 14:48

You're living to find another day.

SPEAKER_04 14:49

Um exactly, and um, you know, just one second can change a life forever. Just think about that, and it does, and it's the amount of people the the actual devastation, the consequences that it actually does, you know, it's not just your life, it's it's everything that can happen to you, everything that happened to the person you've stabbed, everything that happens to their family, and this is that happens to your family, and it's like you know, it could be 30, 40 people.

SPEAKER_06 15:14

And this is the grave outcome of knife crime is that the intention might be to give away, but you don't know how far you could easily kill someone and it all gets serious for everybody involved.

SPEAKER_03 15:26

But this is what we talk about at Menti, the ripple effect, the consequences of an action or a moment, and how they lead on to how it impacts everybody else and their lives. And although there's for years to come, years to come, maybe even for some people it they don't they don't heal from the from the tra the trauma of it all. And although we're having we're having this conversation, it's it all sounds very nostalgic, right? But it's it's dangerous to be very kind of flippant about it as well, because ultimately at the end of the day, it's a dangerous weapon. There's people's there's people's lives at risk. There are people are dying, there are people are using it as a means to achieve a certain outcome. There's not enough regulation on it, uh, or enough to be any regulation on that? Yeah, I mean you could just walk into what Asda now and go buy some set of kitchen knives, and then you're going about and you're causing damage.

SPEAKER_06 16:13

It's funny how it's changed though. I remember many years ago when I was in the Scouts, it would be normal to have you'd have quite a large knife, and everybody on camp would have a knife running around cutting sticks. So it's surprising. I mean, that wasn't that long ago. I mean, it was it was a few decades ago. Well, I think how youngsters are carrying it to protect. I mean, I find it shocking that Ikebel, you're mentioning people in this community are you know taking knives to school just to feel safe.

SPEAKER_03 16:40

I think it's that ease of access. This is the one thing ease of access, ability to get it, gang culture, pressures, social media, looking at what everybody else has got, what you haven't got. It's the quick win. Um, it's those kind of things, and it starts to feed into the culture and to the mindset. And the youngsters think that they haven't got no outlet to I don't know, push their own agendas or their own narratives or protect their own space. And so, you know, you see them videos on social media where like you know, they're just like it's just like sword fights like back in the day. Do you know what I mean? You're looking yourself thinking this is modern day 21st century England, right? And these guys, Central London, running around playing swords, yeah, and it's like and we've seen it on socials, right?

SPEAKER_06 17:23

Across Crawley, samurai swords, um you know, and and it glamifies uh the the situation. Michaela, when we're offline, you were mentioning that you would be quite interested in the self-defense.

SPEAKER_02 17:35

Well, to see the amount of p kids that nowadays have knives, that's probably and the g I don't think kids really need a good reason to attack you. Just uh to look cool um in front of their friends, it would probably be a good enough reason or to try their new knife or something. And I I often walk alone in the evening at really late nights when I finish work to my to a really easy place for the for anyone to get attacked, which is uh a car park where it's no one in the evening. But I I do have to say that I think parents should be a little bit more aware of this because kids don't really have, at least at 13, at 11, the the ages that we were talking about, they don't have the the funds to go and buy a knife. So I think th they probably take it from home. And if mum should probably notice or dad, I think, or even if they don't notice, I think it wouldn't arm anyone to check kids their kids' bags and try to know.

SPEAKER_06 18:38

Because I think a lot of this links back to other episodes we've done. If we think about the parenting episode, if we think about society, community spirit. Is it it has it come about because of the community spirit falling away, parents being too busy, kids left on their own? How how are we in this situation? Because it's definitely

Policing Youth Work And Deterrence

SPEAKER_06 19:00

got worse and it's becoming more prevalent.

SPEAKER_07 19:02

Well, I think the main reason for everything getting worse is the lack of police. Growing up, the amount of stop and searches searches would happen every day just in Broadfield and Button. But that's surely a deterrent, right? That's the thing. I I've I can't remember the last time I've seen any group of kids getting stop and searched. Stop and search. Like that's how you deter things, that's how you're gonna find things. Uh, and there's nothing going on in Sussex. In Cruley, anyway. I don't see it. If it's happening, it's it's from a policing point of view. Yeah, let's start with that. I mean, you look, you see all them kids running around with the charans and their ballies on. What do you think they're doing?

SPEAKER_06 19:40

They're dropping off drugs, but also finding areas for them to get involved. I mean, we've had Cruley Community Youth Services on and all of the activities and what they do with the youngsters in the community. Is that part of the answer as well? Because it can't be only about policing, can it? No, no, of course, that's part, but also doing more.

SPEAKER_07 19:57

We need to look uh throughout the summer, there's nothing, no, there's no programmes for the youth. There's no like summer basketball tournaments, football tournaments. You know, like we we are we are now a multicultural, I guess. We're not a city, but we're just outside. So we're gonna we we need them type of things to go on that are gonna attract kids. Uh bigger, any thoughts from you?

SPEAKER_00 20:18

Yeah, I mean I haven't been directly well, it's a lie, but I I feel like I've not been directly affected by knife crime, but I grew up in that ripple effect. So my dad's cousin was stabbed and killed. And this is going back to when I was about three or four, so I've never met him. There's no grief there, but what I've watched since is the ripple effect in my own family, my dad, in his siblings who fell into addiction. One another one then sadly died, and you look at it all, and his case actually was a mistaken identity, and it was gang culture. They were wanting to stab somebody in a rival gang, and they stabbed my second cousin, thinking it was him, and it wasn't. He was just picking up some chips from a chippy, you know. And regardless, we're what 25-26 years on, and the ripple effects still there. I can't speak for the perpetrator. I don't even know if the perpetrator ever got caught.

SPEAKER_06 21:25

And that was just mistaken identity.

SPEAKER_00 21:27

Yeah, I think that's when you know, I've definitely especially when I was in youth work and working with communities and even as a as a counsellor, you do get this maybe flippant comment of like, oh, it's gang culture, you know, they deserve it, which I don't agree with whatsoever. But actually, it does spill out everywhere, regardless of whether people are engaging in this actively or mistaken. In Surrey, where I'm from, I think the biggest thing for me and the most hurtful thing was what. Describe myself as an ex-youth worker is because Surrey decided to get rid of all of their youth services. So we don't have a youth service at all. And I worked in county lines, I worked with young offenders, and overnight that all went, and now you can only get access to the youth service if you um are charged and found guilty of a crime. So there is no preventative work at all.

SPEAKER_06 22:26

And do you believe there's a direct link between that disappearing and potentially violence and crime?

SPEAKER_00 22:33

100%. There was definitely like I'll be honest, if a teenager came to us over the age of 14 until they wanted to change, there was very little we could do. But we were working with kids as young as nine, and that sort of nine to thirteen year olds, there was still work you could be done to prevent them going down that track. But even just having that link into 14 to 21 year olds, you know, they're they're with us, you know, they were with us four nights a week at least, so they may not be interested in not changing, but at least for a few hours each week they were with us, they weren't out.

SPEAKER_06 23:16

Um and and these ages, honestly, I find astonishing and shocking, you know. Uh and and in the stats here, it says here the average age of young people involved in violence was reported as 11. That that's just that's just astonishing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:32

There was always a running joke in the summer youth service that and not just with knife crime, with anything, that the younger they were they were more active, and then as they got older it seemed to have died died.

SPEAKER_06 23:42

So you weren't shocked. I mean, I've I've led a sheltered life, perhaps. Uh Ickbel's not shocked either. Sandy, not Keith.

SPEAKER_04 23:50

No, um, not with uh I mean I think it's the whole package of what's going on, the deprivation, the closing down places, you know, it's like martial arts clubs are the only places left for anywhere to go because a lot of the uh youth services are closing down. And so I totally agree, you know. Uh what are you supposed to do to help people if there's no one nowhere to go?

SPEAKER_06 24:11

Now, nationally, we have to point out nationally, um this has dropped by 10%, but there's still 49,000 offences across the UK. And, you know, as I was saying before, Crawley accounted for nearly around 23% of violent crime in West Sussex. That's why we're focusing on Crawley. And Sheriff from

Education Access And The Ripple Effect

SPEAKER_06 24:30

Menchair Listening Group will come to you in a moment about your experience with this. Maury?

SPEAKER_01 24:35

Well, I just wanted to say that I think we need to be looking at at the um, you know, take it further back. We need to be looking at education more than anything. You know, you're talking about 11-year-olds going out with knives, and and I think a lot of the time what happens with that, a lot of them will have a very small knife or something on them. They feel they need to carry that to protect themselves or whatever. And then when they do get in a bit of a scrap, they they don't want to kill anyone, but they they'll stab someone in the arm or the leg and they don't realise that they can hit the wrong spot and you know, an artery or something, and and people have die through that all the that kind of uh is a common consequence of that kind of knife crime. And I think it's we've got to start teaching about it in schools and making them aware of, you know, what they risk doing to their own lives if they get it wrong like that, and and the consequences it can have. And then I think, you know, a lot of kids just think, oh, I just oh, you know, they wave a knife and it's you know, a bit of intimidation or whatever. But I don't think a lot of them deliberately go out there wanting to kill someone with a knife. I think it just it's an unfortunate thing that they don't realise the gravitas of of the weapon they've got in their hand and what it what what so easily can happen with it.

SPEAKER_06 25:47

And and I know men share listening group do a lot of um interventions with schools, particularly around mental health. Um, but knife crime, is that something that you've tried with schools?

SPEAKER_03 25:57

I haven't had the opportunity to go in yet, but I know Sean and uh I think it's Jason, they've been going about, and obviously they're not only talking about mental health, but they're talking about how to be a young man, a responsible, educated young man. And I'm sure that at some point those are the kind of things that will be discussed because um, like you're saying, the attitudes towards it is and the consequences of actions, yeah. And like you're saying, and I think these children realise the significance of what they're doing, it's become so easily accessible, so part of the culture that to you know lash out is just lashing out, and it's like it's my territory, and it's you know the bravado that goes with. And I I wanted to say earlier as well, it's about the energy that they're giving off. You're gonna if you're gonna give off a certain kind of energy, you're gonna attract a certain kind of energy, and so you need to be mindful as uh as just Jeremy, as a human being, the energy that you are projecting, yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_07 26:49

Obviously, the activities that you partake in they have repercussions. Uh the people you hang about with and the things that you do definitely, you know, um make an impact.

SPEAKER_06 26:59

So I guess people, places, and things be mindful of so when you said you bought a knife from across the street here, yeah. What would have stopped you if we think back to the old Ickbell buying that first knife? What was the reason you bought the knife and what would have stopped you?

SPEAKER_07 27:12

Uh it was it was yeah, at that point nothing would have stopped you, telling the truth. That was a whole different way of looking.

SPEAKER_06 27:20

But if you go back in time, not that day buying the knife, but going back in time, what what other events could have happened to have a averted listening to my mother. Okay. Which you do do now.

SPEAKER_07 27:31

Yeah, but yeah, just I guess you know, learning in school, staying in school. Uh I mean I I got kicked out, I think. I didn't I think I've got no qualifications or anything, so I got kicked out quite young.

SPEAKER_06 27:43

That's because it's usually a sequence of events, isn't it? That that leads to this. It's not just that someone wakes up and says, Look, I'm gonna buy a knife, and and it it's complex.

SPEAKER_07 27:54

You start getting in issues that are drug related, and then next thing you know, you need to buy a gun and a knife, and it's naivety as well.

SPEAKER_03 28:02

Like Igbel came from that kind of you know, he immersed himself in that kind of culture, right? Yeah, my parents did a fantastic job of over sheltering me. So naivety.

SPEAKER_06 28:14

Well, that's how I'm feeling.

SPEAKER_03 28:16

Yeah, so there's a there's a naivety only now that we're exposed to this and we've we're grown, and I've got two teenage boys who are so streetwise, more than I could ever possibly be. And they'll correct me sometimes and be like, Dad, no, and and and and and how to be or or whatever, and they just seem to know way more than I ever knew growing up at that age. And so I I kind of give my mum and dad a round of applause for showering me as much as they did, but on the flip side as well, education, not being educated about it, so that when you do happen to come across it, it's loving how do you respond. And like Keith teaches one great thing as well, is that like when we're walking down the street, or weather, it's not having our hands in our pocket, it's scanning, it's looking like that you own your space physically, and that you're very aware, so you can you can protect yourself. I don't know if you you've got anything to add uh to that.

SPEAKER_04 29:10

Well, yeah, I mean um people pick on victims, so if you actually look like one, you already are one. So not saying it stops everything, but it does already, just by the way you walk and the way you hold yourself, um, does stop a lot of that happening. Not not all the time, but it does, and it's a a good starting point. And I just wanted to say regarding education, it is really important, I think, because you've got to have a starting point. Everything else we've spoken about um has its influences to it as well. But there's a statistic, 66% of people that carry a knife get it used on them. So just because you've got a knife and you're carrying a knife, don't think that you're actually gonna be protected by it because if you don't know how to use it, you don't practice it with it every day, you could actually end up having it used on you.

SPEAKER_06 29:58

So um 66% if you're carrying a knife, there's more chance of that being used on you. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:05

And that leans into the energy.

SPEAKER_04 30:07

And you know, another thing that I found, um, one of the young ladies that was in my class actually said to me that she knows of girls putting knives in down by their thighs so they're not checked and going into schools and taking them in for the for the blokes. So it's not just the boys and uh and the men. Yeah, I mean, you know, largely boys and men, but more more more guys, but it it can work together as well. So it's not the and that was one that shocked me. I think we all all can be sitting around the table and be shocked at some point today. We're all a little bit naive when it comes to the stuff.

SPEAKER_06 30:43

And that was the thing that shocked you, a girl carrying it around.

SPEAKER_04 30:47

You know, that obviously, you know, what chance have you got? You're patting down everyone, but you've got girls putting it in intimate places, so you can't actually um find it and then bringing it in for their uh gang members or whoever's uh you know, it could be someone just actually uh forcing them to do it, I don't know. But uh it was a bit of a shocker for me. Crikey.

SPEAKER_06 31:08

Yeah. So what shocked you, Sheriff, over the I mean you had a sheltered upbringing as you were saying. So how well did that prepare you when you came across your situation?

SPEAKER_03 31:17

It didn't. No, it didn't, and I always it didn't say to my kids, I'm never gonna show you the way my mum and dad showed me because then I was exposed to stuff later on in life that mentally I wasn't probably or emotionally prepared for. And it's all about mental maturity and emotional maturity. And if you have those things and you give it to the kids from a young age, then they'll be able to understand the environment. That's why I'm kind of glad my sons are really streetwise, because they've got that. How old are your kids? My eldest is 18, and my milder boy is um 15, and I've got a daughter who's um 11. So yeah.

Takeaways Support And Next Steps

SPEAKER_06 31:50

And we wanted we wanted to spotlight knife crime and spend an episode doing this. Um, I know Keith's got to shoot off me because he's doing training tonight, actually, in this space. Just before we wrap up, let's do some takeaways so that we can bring some positivity as what can people do. Those that are listening and feeling like, wow, okay, what can we do about that situation? Let's go around the table.

SPEAKER_04 32:12

Yeah, um, I would say um basically just be aware, be aware of what's going on, learn about what's going on, education as was mentioned. Um and uh basically, if you are scared of or being in the facility of knife crime all the time, depending on jobs as well. So a lot of people with jobs that actually um bring them into, you know, like door supervisors, um, people like that, um, you know, then just get some training. Um, if you want to get training, then come and see me because this is what I do most of the time. I deal with um preemption rather. There's some really good stuff like bleed kits and stuff like that out there, which is great, but it's always after the things happened.

SPEAKER_06 32:52

So in a place of work, a public place, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 32:58

Yeah, I mean they're they're great, but it's we really need to try and stop it happening in the first place. In the first place, yeah. And actually having some basic strategies for you personally, that's where I come in. And obviously, education, being aware and our knife knife aware survival programme that we we teach as well.

SPEAKER_06 33:15

Give your website one more time. Uh Crawleycombatacademy.com. Okay, and let's move round the table, Sharif.

SPEAKER_03 33:21

Oh, the takeaways from this, I mean, they're numerous. Obviously, about you know, protecting your space and and managing your space to be able to defend yourself and facilitate escape. It's also about you know education, especially for the youth. It's also about uh support network services that can be in place to you know try and prevent these things and keep keep like predominantly the youngsters active in positive contributions to science as opposed to negative, a bit more regulation around knives and what kind of knives can be brought, as and when. But another groups like ourselves that are just like there to support and re educate.

SPEAKER_06 34:00

Also, people feel entrapped, right? Because I'm I'm imagining the situation comes about where people feel entrapped, that that is the that is the world that they find themselves in. How might they escape that? And we'll come to you, Eggbo, I don't know, for for a yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:13

Yeah, I mean I mean Top Boy. Top Boy is a prime example of being stuck in an environment and becoming part of that environment. And it's true, there's a saying you you become those who you associate with or a product of your environment. It's so it's definitely about education, it's about creating opportunities for and there are routes out.

SPEAKER_06 34:34

That's men's share listening group. You've got circles uh across the area, we'll come back to that in a moment. Uh Iqbel, any quick words of wisdom from you?

SPEAKER_07 34:40

Uh yeah, just we'll go back to people, places, and things. Uh if you this is to the youngsters, if you think that you need to take your weapon when you go somewhere to a certain place, don't go to that place. Like and this comes from someone that used to do real words of wisdom. Like, if I'm going to like you're gonna bring something with you, like, oh, just in case it goes off. Why are you going somewhere? Avoid it. Possibly go off. Uh so let's start with that, you know, uh avoid places and people that you know can uh possibly bring you trouble.

SPEAKER_03 35:16

Can I just say something one quickly? Knife crime doesn't necessarily belong to um gang culture or to some people, it also can form part of domestic abuse as well.

SPEAKER_01 35:24

Oh, yeah, of course. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 35:27

Any other final words before we wrap up?

SPEAKER_01 35:30

I'd just say if if you have been victim of a knife crime or someone very close to you has been victim of a knife crime, it's a really horrendous violent thing, and I would strongly advise people to go and get some counselling to deal with it because trauma like that will stay with you for years and it needs to be properly processed and the ripple effect Abigail's mentioning with her situation as well.

SPEAKER_00 35:52

Well, I think I think even like you know, it's it's something for me that has always been facts, something that I've been brought up with, but actually I probably haven't thought about the ripple effect until being in this conversation today on just how much it still impacted me, even though I never knew my dad's cousin. And you know, it it does it does transfer, and I think the only thing that I wanted to add was that youth services are being cut left, right, and centre, but that doesn't mean that we still can't work with young people, and if you can do, because it's vital.

SPEAKER_06 36:29

And let's try to together as a community stab it up.

SPEAKER_04 36:34

Just one last thing, uh, some really good information on the Bank and Silla Trust. Uh, if you go online, some great information on there. There's some courses as well, uh, basic courses. So, yeah, that's just a really good source of information as well.

SPEAKER_06 36:47

Thank you very much, Keith. You've been an absolute superstars. Keith Collier from the Crawley Combat Academy, also Sharif.

SPEAKER_03 36:55

Bulaki.

SPEAKER_06 36:56

Bulaki, there we go. From Men's Share listening group. Uh Michaela Lill, Iqbel Khan, uh, Maureen Jones, and Abigail Chapman Miller. Thank you very much. That's Knife Crime. If you like what you hear, well not like the topic, but if this has resonated with you, do come and join us Sussex and Surrey Soapbox on Facebook, also Spotify for the other episodes, and we'll see you next week. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_05 37:20

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